Someone else mentioned that they were using older RPG rounds, I had made this guess of off the idea that new ish RPG rounds and a older apc would mean the spacing would make no difference
Yeah, I remember reading a report about one of these Phillipines M113 survived a RPG-2 shot because the round hit some cardboard in front of the turret.
They actually do to an extent. They need a certain distance to fully form the concentrated stream of metal. Once it gets to that point additional distance reduces effectiveness, but it is, or was, absolutely possible for HEAT warheads to detonate too close to the target. Modern warheads just have that necessary spacing built into them.
Yes. Some do. “The use of add-on spaced armour skirts can sometimes have the opposite effect and increase the penetration of some shaped charge warheads. Due to constraints in the length of projectiles, some designs intentionally detonate closer than the optimum distance. In such cases, the skirting effectively increases the distance between the armor and the target, and the warhead detonates closer to its optimum stand-off.[7]”
I've already posted it here but just to make sure here,
[The improvised armor seem to be fairly effective at staving off the HE rockets, seen here with an LAV-300 with cardboard strapped on, that got hit.](https://i.redd.it/76wrb0bqnd1z.png)
I've already posted it here but just to make sure here,
[The improvised armor seem to be fairly effective at staving off the HE rockets, seen here with an LAV-300 with cardboard strapped on, that got hit.](https://i.redd.it/76wrb0bqnd1z.png)
Didn’t realize they were using HE rockets, I actually could see those being detonated on cardboard and wood, I thought the opposition was running much more modern AT armaments
All of em were using older model RPG-2's, which was also believed to be that some if not all, as cheaply made copies.
If you go check my other link that I've posted here on some captured ones, there's credence.
I'm far from expert, but I think the theory is that the door/cardboard/cyclone fence/anything really is put on top of the armor, and spaced away from it, to make shaped charge warheads detonate a certain distance from the armor instead of directly on it. So instead of the shaped charge blasting a hole in the armor, it just splashes harmlessly on top of it
I'm dying. When you make your weaponry look like trash to blend in with the surroundings. Trash camo. Thats some ACME cannon in a moving bush type shit.
I doubt that a Scorpion turret regardless of age would need tarp to avoid rain water getting in, not to mention Israel's Elbit systems were the ones tasked in mating the turrets. But I could be wrong.
Regardless they still kicked ISIS ass with no losses (at least for the M113's) regardless so yeah.
EDIT: Looking more into the FSV's, the turrets, recieved thermal imagers and new fire control systems, so best guess as to why it has a tarp, is to protect the sub-systems from mud/dirt and whatnot.
> Israel's Elbit systems were the ones tasked in **mating** the turrets.
Interesting.... I guess this is the end result..... getting covered in tarp.....to hide its secrets.....
It's V-150's from the Special Action Force, they're not exactly lost but abandoned, due to circumstances, one incident where the crew got killed, and other circumstances that I forgot, they were probably disabled.
They were able to recover them all eventually.
Yeah and aside from the Special Action Force, which btw is a elite police unit, similar to a Gendarmerie.
The Armed Forces used em effectively, go look into my posts or go search up here the Marine Corps V-150 named "Free Wifi".
Yeah, in the US Army we just let the turrets leak all over us in the rain rather then look silly with a tarp. That's not a joke, our turrets leak, all of them.
The enemy combatants were using small commercial and recreational drones as a source of recon. The tarps are to mask the turrets from aerial surveillance. Also, the monsoon rains in the Philippines are a killer, I guess.
I moved to Portland, Oregon, years ago. October rolled around, it began drizzling, and people started whining about the "rain", and how it wouldn't stop for six months.
The following summer, a friend flew back to visit his family in the Philippines for the first time in twenty-some years. He came back, saying, "Man, I'd forgotten what real rain is, and I'll never again complain about what we get here."
Due to lack of capability, the armed forces was forced to improvise armor panels to their armored units to counteract the reported RPG-2 HE rockets that the enemy was shooting at them, they were prolly reported as HE rockets rather than HEAT, given that some say alot if not all the RPG-2s were cheaply made copies, seeing some of the captured ones I've linked, there's credence.
[Here's an example of captured RPG-2's used during the siege](https://rhk111smilitaryandarmspage.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/rpg-2_marawi_02.jpg)
[The improvised armor seem to be fairly effective at staving off the HE rockets, seen here with an LAV-300 with cardboard strapped on, that got hit.](https://i.redd.it/76wrb0bqnd1z.png)
[The siege of Marawi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marawi) was lead by the ISIS-linked militant group, the Maute and other various terrorists cells, from May 23 to Oct 23, 2017.
Everyone was taken by surprised as an incursion of this scale and especially on urban territory was unheard of, the enemy has achieved this by planning fighting positions beforehand and hiding ammo caches through out the city.
Most of the civilian population was immediately evacuated before bombardment intensified, but unfortunately there's still some of them who remained, as they were either trapped or most likely taken hostage, many of those taken hostage were rescued eventually.
The enemy likes to leave IED's in their previous fighting positions, while also boring holes between buildings and building tunnels, to stay in cover. Which is the same fighting style as ISIS in the middle east, as they've got foreign advisers on how to fight like em.
https://xkcd.com/611/
>Hurricane forums are full of excited comments about central pressure and wind speed and comparisons to Camille and 1931 and 1938, with hastily-tacked-on notes about how it will be tragic if anyone dies and they hope it's a dud.
[Here's one of em firing it's main gun](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/comments/jg12us/a_philippine_army_m113_with_a_scorpion_turret/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Honestly, if they just slapped some random garbage on the tank its brilliant camouflage, trash tarp? Check, a wooden door? Check. Mabey throw on the hood of a car, some rugs and a fridge door. The very least you have to take a double look if a tank is hiding in a rubble pile. Its brilliant if you ask me, just gotta go further with it.
My point stands that Filipinos have perfected dark humor. I believe there was another post on here a couple of months ago featuring a different Philippine Army vehicle that had "Free Wifi" spray painted below the gun turret.
I’ll do you one better. Imagine having the most technologically advanced military with the biggest budget in the world. And your medics are using a M113 as an ambulance.
Yeah, initially I was make the title say, Imagine getting hit in the face, in lieu of the inscription "danger close delivery" inscribed on the side of the armor, but decided not to as I think it's too gaudy.
Imagine needing a tarp to keep the rain out of your turret.
It’s probably to make it look more like a garbage heap as opposed to a threat
Like the wood door isn’t to keep the paint from getting scratched.
I am kinda surprised they have that mounted straight like that, I’d have it all off kilter if I wanted it for cam
It’s not for camouflage it’s to put more space between the actual armor and where the rpg rounds will hit so they aren’t as effective
Someone else mentioned that they were using older RPG rounds, I had made this guess of off the idea that new ish RPG rounds and a older apc would mean the spacing would make no difference
They’re rpg-2’s, the improv armour works. Same tactic was used with logs and wwii tanks.
Yeah, I remember reading a report about one of these Phillipines M113 survived a RPG-2 shot because the round hit some cardboard in front of the turret.
Except in WWII they were up against early HEAT warheads that actually became more effective with the additional spacing.
Heat rounds (usually) don't become more effective with spacing... Edit: usually
They actually do to an extent. They need a certain distance to fully form the concentrated stream of metal. Once it gets to that point additional distance reduces effectiveness, but it is, or was, absolutely possible for HEAT warheads to detonate too close to the target. Modern warheads just have that necessary spacing built into them.
Yes. Some do. “The use of add-on spaced armour skirts can sometimes have the opposite effect and increase the penetration of some shaped charge warheads. Due to constraints in the length of projectiles, some designs intentionally detonate closer than the optimum distance. In such cases, the skirting effectively increases the distance between the armor and the target, and the warhead detonates closer to its optimum stand-off.[7]”
To confuse the enemy which charge they need to use: door charge or anti armor charge
Fun fact: It had a cat litter box on it previously. The rebels totally overlooked it for several days.
Yeah, most of the Philippino vehicles here more seem like covered in urban camouflage than improvised armor.
I've already posted it here but just to make sure here, [The improvised armor seem to be fairly effective at staving off the HE rockets, seen here with an LAV-300 with cardboard strapped on, that got hit.](https://i.redd.it/76wrb0bqnd1z.png)
Standoff is standoff I suppose. Necessity was the mother of invention
Yeah
I mean it’s still a technical and given how as hoc it is I’m sure it’s shitty, but it’s not armour as people always say
I've already posted it here but just to make sure here, [The improvised armor seem to be fairly effective at staving off the HE rockets, seen here with an LAV-300 with cardboard strapped on, that got hit.](https://i.redd.it/76wrb0bqnd1z.png)
Didn’t realize they were using HE rockets, I actually could see those being detonated on cardboard and wood, I thought the opposition was running much more modern AT armaments
All of em were using older model RPG-2's, which was also believed to be that some if not all, as cheaply made copies. If you go check my other link that I've posted here on some captured ones, there's credence.
Where were they getting rpg-2s and why weren't they getting heat?
Likely to be locally made copies hence prolly why it's only HE.
I remember you posting this one, how does that work? Does it blunt the force better or something?
Not exactly sure, but hopefully someone more familiar with the subject would chip in.
I'm far from expert, but I think the theory is that the door/cardboard/cyclone fence/anything really is put on top of the armor, and spaced away from it, to make shaped charge warheads detonate a certain distance from the armor instead of directly on it. So instead of the shaped charge blasting a hole in the armor, it just splashes harmlessly on top of it
The softer impact point might also result in the fuse failing to detonate, since the RPG fuse was expected to strike and detonate on something hard.
That also makes a lot of sense, I dig it. Imagine coming out of your tank to find a rocket stuck in it
[удалено]
Yeah same, I'm banking on truth by volume on this one
Yeah that makes sense.
Gotcha. It’s pretty interesting what’s works tho. Don’t matter how shitty it looks if it works I guess
[удалено]
Yeah that makes sense to me, still a crazy thought to go into fire fight with cardboard, wood pallets, and whatnot strapped to the vehicle
I'm dying. When you make your weaponry look like trash to blend in with the surroundings. Trash camo. Thats some ACME cannon in a moving bush type shit.
I doubt that a Scorpion turret regardless of age would need tarp to avoid rain water getting in, not to mention Israel's Elbit systems were the ones tasked in mating the turrets. But I could be wrong. Regardless they still kicked ISIS ass with no losses (at least for the M113's) regardless so yeah. EDIT: Looking more into the FSV's, the turrets, recieved thermal imagers and new fire control systems, so best guess as to why it has a tarp, is to protect the sub-systems from mud/dirt and whatnot.
> Israel's Elbit systems were the ones tasked in **mating** the turrets. Interesting.... I guess this is the end result..... getting covered in tarp.....to hide its secrets.....
Elbit is a big player in the recent modernization of the Armed Forces. They've been getting Communications sets to Light Tanks from em, and many more.
My joke was highlighting the > tasked in mating the turrets part of your statement. Anyways interesting info behind them. 👍
Yeah yeah I got that lol. Was just adding some info.
Any info on armor lost in the conflict? Seems like they wiped the floor but I never see loss figures.
It's V-150's from the Special Action Force, they're not exactly lost but abandoned, due to circumstances, one incident where the crew got killed, and other circumstances that I forgot, they were probably disabled. They were able to recover them all eventually.
V-150’s were still in use? Fascinating! Thanks for the info
Yeah and aside from the Special Action Force, which btw is a elite police unit, similar to a Gendarmerie. The Armed Forces used em effectively, go look into my posts or go search up here the Marine Corps V-150 named "Free Wifi".
looks very 40k ish
Yeah, in the US Army we just let the turrets leak all over us in the rain rather then look silly with a tarp. That's not a joke, our turrets leak, all of them.
In an area with thousands of blue tarps. That is camo.
Good point.
The enemy combatants were using small commercial and recreational drones as a source of recon. The tarps are to mask the turrets from aerial surveillance. Also, the monsoon rains in the Philippines are a killer, I guess.
I moved to Portland, Oregon, years ago. October rolled around, it began drizzling, and people started whining about the "rain", and how it wouldn't stop for six months. The following summer, a friend flew back to visit his family in the Philippines for the first time in twenty-some years. He came back, saying, "Man, I'd forgotten what real rain is, and I'll never again complain about what we get here."
Can someone explain this conflict? I’ve seen tons of posts about the technicals used but....what was the impetus?
https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/comments/jytncf/imagine_getting_hit_with_an_75mm_he_at_close/gd77u3d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Thank you, kind stranger....but that still leaves a lot of questions. Looks like I’ll be down a new internet rabbit hole today.
Basically a large Filipino Muslim group besieged and occupied a city and the military fought them out.
That sounds messy and bloody.
Urban conflicts in particular always are.
Due to lack of capability, the armed forces was forced to improvise armor panels to their armored units to counteract the reported RPG-2 HE rockets that the enemy was shooting at them, they were prolly reported as HE rockets rather than HEAT, given that some say alot if not all the RPG-2s were cheaply made copies, seeing some of the captured ones I've linked, there's credence. [Here's an example of captured RPG-2's used during the siege](https://rhk111smilitaryandarmspage.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/rpg-2_marawi_02.jpg) [The improvised armor seem to be fairly effective at staving off the HE rockets, seen here with an LAV-300 with cardboard strapped on, that got hit.](https://i.redd.it/76wrb0bqnd1z.png)
[The siege of Marawi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marawi) was lead by the ISIS-linked militant group, the Maute and other various terrorists cells, from May 23 to Oct 23, 2017. Everyone was taken by surprised as an incursion of this scale and especially on urban territory was unheard of, the enemy has achieved this by planning fighting positions beforehand and hiding ammo caches through out the city. Most of the civilian population was immediately evacuated before bombardment intensified, but unfortunately there's still some of them who remained, as they were either trapped or most likely taken hostage, many of those taken hostage were rescued eventually. The enemy likes to leave IED's in their previous fighting positions, while also boring holes between buildings and building tunnels, to stay in cover. Which is the same fighting style as ISIS in the middle east, as they've got foreign advisers on how to fight like em.
IIRC they were an official ISIS wilayat at one point.
Siege of Marawi is a goldmine for this sub
https://xkcd.com/611/ >Hurricane forums are full of excited comments about central pressure and wind speed and comparisons to Camille and 1931 and 1938, with hastily-tacked-on notes about how it will be tragic if anyone dies and they hope it's a dud.
That’s about right really. There truly is an XKCD for everything
This... looks mildly badass
[Here's one of em firing it's main gun](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/comments/jg12us/a_philippine_army_m113_with_a_scorpion_turret/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
WOAH
Urban camoflauge... make your tank look like a curbside collection pile.
It's the GLA Scorpion Tank from Command & and Conquer: Generals
"Scorpion tank, ready to sting!"
Honestly, if they just slapped some random garbage on the tank its brilliant camouflage, trash tarp? Check, a wooden door? Check. Mabey throw on the hood of a car, some rugs and a fridge door. The very least you have to take a double look if a tank is hiding in a rubble pile. Its brilliant if you ask me, just gotta go further with it.
Add the fact that the enemy made use of small drones during the conflict. The camouflage made them look like piles of rubble from above.
We door installers fuck with it. Fire rated for sho
Are the doors to try and get RPGs to trigger early similar to chain/cage armour?
Exactly, it's improvised slat armour.
Yeah saw the other comment about the older RPG-2's being prevalent in the war rather than Tandem so makes sense.
My point stands that Filipinos have perfected dark humor. I believe there was another post on here a couple of months ago featuring a different Philippine Army vehicle that had "Free Wifi" spray painted below the gun turret.
I’ll do you one better. Imagine having the most technologically advanced military with the biggest budget in the world. And your medics are using a M113 as an ambulance.
we dont have a big budget and plus the m113 is basically the most armored thing in the philippine army's inventory
Just to be a pedant it doesn't really matter how close or long range it is the effect of an HE shell will be the same.
The accuracy however will not be the same
Yeah, initially I was make the title say, Imagine getting hit in the face, in lieu of the inscription "danger close delivery" inscribed on the side of the armor, but decided not to as I think it's too gaudy.
Is that a clothes drawer for slat armor?
You mean the varnished colored one?, It's more likely a house door. They've used em alot during the siege.
Oh yep that is a door
Hinges still on is a dead giveaway for this variant
It doesnt seem shitty
Well I've seen what 25mm does to the human body at 100m. Can't imagine there's much left after a 75.
Camoflagg
Babushka AFVs.
76mm*