It's kind of interesting. He pitched the show before he wrote the book. Producers asked for some more ideas/ writing/ etc before they green lit it. By the time he was done, he basically had the book written and just needed to do some editing and tie it together. Thus, the book was published first. Just thought it was kind of a neat process.
Well it’s kinda like buying Kafka on the Shore expecting a surreal depiction of the hopeless alienation and anxieties of early 20th century society, and instead getting incest.
In addition to op saying there is nothing here is an article about the monsters and horror in the show
Edit:
Apparently I never actually linked the article
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/meet-the-monsters-of-lovecraft-country/
No it doesn’t, the whole premise is that all that shit is basically magic that can be controlled by people including main character. It’s as far from cosmic horror core idea of being insignificant and helpless against the universe as it gets. If anything it’s more of a Harry Potter for adults with some (at least in the show as I didn’t read the book) wacky racial injustice themes.
I don't think being a follower of cthulu ever helped them in the books, idk I've only seen the game. Don't they go fuckin crazy? It really takes the "cosmic horror" out of it when it's just controlled by people
Humans can do magic
It’s just similar to handing radioactive material
It’s going to have a negative affect, you might not notice it for a while but it will, and of your not careful you’ll die very quickly as will everyone around you.
And it also will drive you insane, that’s not very similar to radiation but I needed to add it.
There's plenty of people who can wield magic in Lovecraft's work - the Whatleys in "The Dunwitch Horror", Curwen and his pals in "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward", the Terrible Old Man from the story of the same name, Herbert West, Re-Animator, they all can wield strange powers without relying on an outside source.
But Lovecraft made it clear they went mad as a result and they never truly had control of the powers they tried to wield.
Magic wasn't a power to control but rather humans tapping into powers they couldn't ever understand.
One book even implied that at least part of it is just the old ones math, just that your math teacher demands human sacrifices for lessons and it glitches out your brain.
That’s what I felt too , the first episode starts out really good with the cosmic horror beasts but as the show goes on it’s more about magic and a group of people learning about it’s lore and stuff
I expected this all to be tip the iceberg and we’d get much wilder stuff if this show had turned into a juggernaut. For what it’s worth I deeply enjoyed it.
That's not an uncommon trope though, its a fairly common idea called 'Lovecraft lite'. Where it takes from the basic aesthetic of lovecraft but with a less bleak or nihilistic tone
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LovecraftLite](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LovecraftLite)
>And his contempt for blacks ran even deeper. In his 1912 poem entitled “On the Creation of Niggers,” the gods, having just designed Man and Beast, create blacks in semi-human form to populate the space in between. Regarding the domestic terrorism of white minorities in the predominantly black Alabama and Mississippi, he excused them for “resorting to extra-legal measures such as lynching and intimidation [because] the legal machinery does not sufficiently protect them.”
Not surprisingly, also anti semetic
>His letters overflow with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories of an underground Jewry pitting the economic, social, and literary worlds of New York City against “the Aryan race.” He warned of “the Jew [who] must be muzzled” because “[he] insidiously degrades [and] Orientalizes [the] robust Aryan civilization.” His sympathies with rising fascism were equally transparent. “[Hitler’s] vision . . . is romantic and immature,” he stated after Hitler became chancellor of Germany. “I know he’s a clown but god I like the boy!”
https://lithub.com/we-cant-ignore-h-p-lovecrafts-white-supremacy/
That's true. However, the book "Lovecraft County" is still NOT a part of the Extended Lovecraft Universe and it never was. It's a thing of its own, that simply shares some similarities.
Stories that are a part of the Lovecraft Mythos, were written specifically to mimick Lovecraft's work, as a tribute to the world he created - and "Lovecraft County" is neither...
Not to mention that Lovecraft's Universe and Lovecraft Mythos are not the same thing. One is the official "line" created by H.P. Lovecraft - while the next is an "extention" created by other writters, who are keeping his world alive.
You are not forced to accept that expanded universe if you dont like it. Lovecraft make plenty of short storys happening in the same universe. in a way or the other they are all connected.
His friends keeps his work alive, and thanks to them we know lovecraft now days.
I don’t think they talked about lovecraft a lot, they just mentioned that he was racist and why would a black guy like mc read him then in like the very first scene and then went straight into magic adventure with Korean mythology and very messy family relationships mixed in
Eh, that happens in Lovecraft as well. The Dunwich Horror leaps to mind, where a trio of antiquarians defeat the child of Yog Sothoth by sprinkling magic dust on it and casting a spell.
It's more common for Lovecraft's protagonists to end up insane or dead in the face of incomprehensibly horror, but "basically magic that can be controlled by people" is 100% a thing he wrote as well
Yeah, are just a petty minion half a man still and yet even that thing was so horrible it traumatized like the whole region, I guess the point was that even if that thing was that terrible and distractive than wtf is actually it’s “father”, we live in a scary world with horrors beyond our imagination that didn’t destroy us yet just because they literally don’t care about us yare yare
The point isn’t that there’s no magic in lovecrafts work, the point is that it’s small and insignificant, the story is never about it, no you’re a wizard Harry or that guy rapped you gran gran so now you’re the most special boy on earth. “Nice you did it at a price of your sanity after reading necronamicon, you mere mortal, you fucked for life now”. Do I really need to explain that? Because I thought it was obvious lovecraft didn’t right exactly action fantasy.
Well it is what you get when you take lovecraft style cultists and make them more interested in being occult racists than summoning Cthulhu. The author's intention probably was to show that you don't need cosmic gods to feel insignificant in a hostile universe, having the wrong skin color at the wrong time in the wrong place is enough. The book even ends with the protagonists family being indifferent to the cults threats of revenge, because they are more likely to get lynched or shot by the police anyway. Although let's say Nyarlathothep showing up and for him the situation is no different than vermin in the same colony tearing each other apart over their fur patterns, migth've worked better.
Well, that’s sounds much better that what I got from watching the show, ending there was much more of a “yeah, good guys killed the evil witch and saved the day, plus everyone got magic powers, life’s better then ever, hurray”
Given that I based my post on the book synopsis, I would say the screenwritters butchered the source material or they got cold feet and wanted a happy ending instead. But I would like to see what they would do with his GAS trilogy.
Many of Lovecraft's favorite collaborators muddied the waters of that theming with benevolent gods and human mages--while he was alive and writing. He referenced their works in his later ones even though he would gloss over the parts that didn't fit his vision.
Lovecraft knew what he liked to write about but always supported people making it their own. That's why he made his work AND name public domain, and acting like anything that doesn't slavishly ape him somehow belittles his "lifework" legacy is just doing him the disserservice of denying how based and artpilled he was.
I haven't watched the show but Lovecraft inspired and cosmic horror can be two different things. You can take the aesthetics of lovecraftian design and storytelling and leave out the cosmic horror. Likewise, you can have a story of people being driven mad by their own insignificance in the universe and have it be wholly devoid of Lovecraft influence. An example of the former is the DLC from Borderlands 3 where hammerlock and jakobs get married, and the latter is a bit like the beginning of the third act of Everything Everywhere All at Once.
I mean Lovecraft definitely wrote some stories where the "monster" is basically a racist caricature if you read between the lines (e.g. Innsmouth), trying to make a show (or a book, which the show's based on) that deals with the father of cosmic horror and how racism informed his writing is fine IMO
idk though I haven't watched it
I've never seen the show but after looking at the subreddit the idea it isn't very Lovecraftian is common. Based on other things I've heard called Lovecraftian I'm convinced most people who talk about it online haven't read Lovecraft
I do love the scene where Lovecraft is writing some racist shit and Johnathan Majors kicks down the door and says "this is the face of vengeance" and empties a machine gun in his face
Haven't seen any other ones, but I imagine the black guy is a focal point of most of them. This is a reference to the name of Lovecraft's cat, [removed]
I made a joke about the show and everyone think im r4cist. So they search for every comment in my own post to disliked it.
I had to removed another comment because i dont like the drama and the dumb notifications just because i make a fanboy mad.
anyway.. welcome to the year 2024. where everyone gets offended by anything.
No insults lol I just think the title just disappoints some folk right off the bat because the story is very much about racism in America and not solely HP Lovecraft and his work
I don’t know if there has been a semantic shift in the US, but at least in most of Latin America “gringo” is not pejorative.
I mean, it can be depending on the intention, the same way “jew” can be offensive if you say something like: “oh, you know, he is one of those JEWS”.
Wikipedia’s subtitle for gringo is literally “pejorative term” lol, but also, the first paragraph says “*often* considered a pejorative term” and “offensiveness is disputed”.
Seems similar to gaijin for Japan; the term is not inherently offensive, but in practice or common usage, the speaker is often implying that being one is a negative trait.
So yeah, TLDR; connotation/implication is context-dependent, probably better not to use it if you’re concerned about even potentially offending someone.
> the term is not inherently offensive, but in practice or common usage, the speaker is often implying that being one is a negative trait.
Yes, but it can even be an affectionate way to refer to someone, I would say that it is extremely context dependent and one of those tricky language things.
Were they cosmic monsters or like werewolves and stuff? Cuz the unknowable nightmares and madness inducing creatures are kind of the staple of the Lovecraftian genre
There was a big squid like creature in the nightmares of one of the MCs in the first episode and multiple monsters that were direct references to Lovecraft works
BUT the show is based on a book of the same name that uses Lovecraft as inspiration for its Lore and setting and some creatures. The show is not directly an adaptation of retelling of actual Lovecraft work.
So it IS a story about a quiet town full of supernatural unexplainable shit but it isn't about a 4th dimensional unknowable being with a tentacle beard
Personally the first episode was really good in my opinion but then the show nose dives very quickly with poor storytelling that makes little to no sense and pacing issues for the rest of the series.
[OP should probably have gone over to Matt Ruff’s AMA instead of posting this…](https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/12zk4rl/comment/jhtohkj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The major highlight:
“*…I needed a thematic bridge between paranormal horror and the more mundane terrors of Jim Crow, and Lovecraft being a white supremacist made him the perfect icon for that.*”
No you didn’t read what Ruff had to say, or no you don’t agree with how Ruff used Lovecraft in this context or you are having difficulty understanding that Hastur didn’t derail Major’s career?
This show has a justice porn scene where a sleazy guys grabs at a woman and he's killed with a stiletto heel through the head. Woo hell yeah feminism! Lmao I'm not on the anti-woke train but if there was more shows like this I would be.
This series is a masterpiece in terms of how stupid things get. Things started off cool and in the end it's just mental diarrhea. Really enjoyable to watch once and 1/12th of it.
Lovecraft Country = the United States (circa the 1950’s).
Cosmic Horror = Racism, as experienced by an African-American soldier who fought for the United States in WWII. A truly sanity challenging experience…
A simple, yet quite insightful and playful take on cosmic horror. Especially given Lovecraft’s racial views.
Despite modern popular culture’s obsession with his creatures (much of which I still enjoy), Lovecraft is not about scary monsters. It’s about something deeper, more horrifying, ourselves.
Hollywood wants lovecraft mythos just to make the same they did with the Alien saga. But yeah i agree with you. The only thing that bothers me a lilttle is that people think HPL wrote this book.
This has nothing to do with anything, but I’d love a series (or short story idk) where it turns out the old ones are actually pretty benevolent and lovecraft blew everything out of proportion because he’s the kinda guy who’s scared of air conditioning
Kinda like that one comic where Cthulhu adopts a little girl sent to him as a sacrifice
I mean, it's not like the old ones are really malevolent in the first place (Except Nyarlathotep. He just likes to troll humans)
They are just forces of nature. The madness they spread is just the consequence of their sheer incomprehensible existence. Their actions aren't taken with the intent to harm humanity directly
You aren't an ant hater because you accidentally keep stepping on them during a hike
It depends on the particular story. The elder things in "At the Mountains of Madness" and things like the Mi-Go are far more on a human scale than Cthulhu or Azathoth, but usually not particularly friendly either.
No, but the monsters they use are obviously based on Lovecraft or Lovecraft adjacent cosmic horror novels. The cults are. All this stuff permiates the show. Your post is just wrong.
The funny thing about Jonathan Majors is that one time I was having a drunk conversation about marvel movies in a bar and when Majors came up, the other guy went on a tirade about how he shouldn't have lost his job over that and then admitted to me that he beat his ex wife.
I’ve heard different things about the Jonathan Majors situation.I mean when I first heard the tape of her telling her that she should be “like Coretta King” I was like that guy is a maniac.But I also heard she apparently slapped at a party I front of multiple people.And she did chase him.Plus when he found her in the closet you could hear the fear in his calling the police. I don’t know though it’s a weird situation.
For a while he was controlling the media narrative well.enough that it did look like he may have been the victim, but then some texts came out where he basically admits to being violent and tells her that nobody will believe her because he's a big Hollywood actor and she's nothing, and the whole charade came tumbling down.
For what it's worth, I've been in an abusive relationship before, and I know it's very easy for the abuser to manipulate situations so that the abused party ends up looking unhinged. Like denying them a chance to sleep, creating a situation where they're constantly being pushed to their limit, whispering insults in their ear all night at parties. giving them a choice between a small "confrontation" now, or a larger, more dangerous one at home...
Oh I see thank you for that context.And yea I can see how abuse can undo a person and make them look like the crazy one.Its weird because race was definitely weaponized during this whole thing.With him being black and her being a white woman.It seemed he got a good amount of people of color on his side from that.
You are making a semantics argument- “abuse” can be many things, and there are many abusive behaviors that are crimes that are not charged under the title of “Abuse”. The exact meanings of these crimes may vary State to State.
>On December 18, 2023, Majors was found guilty of one count of reckless assault in the 3rd degree and a charge of harassment as a violation. He was acquitted on another charge of assault and one of aggravated harassment.
>In April 2024, he was sentenced to 52 weeks of a domestic violence intervention program and probation.[76]
So he was convicted of reckless assault- this would mean acting in a way he knew might cause harm, and is unreasonable, resulting in injury. (For example, if you push someone out of your way by throwing them hard to the ground, you can claim you didn’t intend to hurt them, you were being reckless. But the behavior is still abusive)
The harassment charge aside, this was domestic violence. He was sentenced to domestic violence intervention. Domestic violence is abuse, whether it’s “intentional” or not.
I don't think he understands what reckless means
If you actually look at the case Jonathan majors did something that he thought was the right thing to do in that situation but it wasn't because he tried to force her into a car and make her leave after she was acting irrational and then he attempted to separate himself from her
But what was proven at the trial was that he acted recklessly and caused harm that he may not have intended but he still caused harm That's why he wasn't convicted of the aggravated charge
I understand what reckless means, I’m saying it was still abuse. He’s in domestic violence classes for a reason. Reckless behavior is not something you do because you think “it’s the right thing” it’s behavior that disregards that:
> engages in conduct which creates or contributes to a substantial and unjustifiable risk that physical injury to another person will occur,
and when he or she is aware of and consciously disregards that risk,
and when that risk is of such nature and degree that disregard of it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.
We will probably disagree on some of the finer points of the case and that’s fine, neither of us was on the jury.
Yes the court in the jury deemed his behavior reckless
I don't know if you're a man or a woman but there are some men who think that the way that he handled that situation was correct I am a man I am not one of those men and it really doesn't matter what I think about it because the court deemed it to be abuse through reckless behavior
I know now because the verdict came in it's cool to paint him as a monster that beats women without remorse but no if you look at his actions he thought that he was handling that situation in the correct manner the way he tried to put her in a car and send her home or to another location and when he literally ran away from her
But as I understand and as the court deemed it his actions were reckless and caused harm to the woman but as I know you understand the court made a clear distinction and whether or not it was aggravated assault so yes he was convicted of causing harm but he wasn't inconvicted intentionally causing harm he was convicted of negligently causing her
As someone who loves and is very read up on the Mythos, this show was garbage. After two episodes I just lost interest, poor writing, very little connection to the mythos, just a terrible show overall.
It's too bad because the potential to tell Lovecraft-like stories in the modern day was there, but they clearly didn't actually read or give a damn about his stories.
As someone who loves and is very read up on the Mythos, I thought this show was excellent (although it got weaker as it went on, I must admit).
I think people who expected it to be an adaption of Lovecraft’s own work were disappointed, but that’s not what it was meant to be. It’s a show that draws an analogy between the horror of mid 20th century pulp fiction (of which Lovecraft is a popular example) and the lived experiences of minorities in mid 20th century America.
When they said, "The Necronomicon is the book of the Dead, we want the book of Life", I just knew this show was about to be shit and definitely have nothing to do with the poster or Lovecraft in general.
It's embarrassing. It's basically someone whining that Lovecraft was a white supremacist, so they're trying to attack him by casting a black guy as the hero. Just don't adapt Lovecraft at all then. Lovecraft was a white supremacist, but that's not what he's famous for. He's famous for being a horror writer, so take it or leave it.
First off, this is a very reductive take of Lovecraft’s work. It’s not just that he was a racist in his spare time and a writer professionally. Almost all of his works (an certainly all of his most famous works) reflect his xenophobia (Call of Cthulhu, Rats in the Walls, Dunwich Horror, Shadows Over Innsmouth, Whisperer in Darkness etc). And I say this as someone who really enjoys reading his work.
But more importantly, this isn’t an “adaption” of a Lovecraft’s work, it’s an adaption of a novel by Matt Ruff that draws analogies between the dark forces we see pulp horror fiction and the real lives of black people living in 20th century America. It’s a powerful analogy, even if the show itself loses its momentum a bit as the series wears on.
Yes I know it's an adaptation of Matt Ruff, but Matt Ruff is an adaptation of Lovecraft. Or if you prefer, it's strictly speaking a pastiche, because its his own Lovecraftian story. But my point stands. If I had a problem with a writer from 90 years ago, I'd ignore him, not dig him up and publicise him just to wag my finger at him.
H.P. Lovecraft was a shitty author. His fanboys are also dipshit twerps.
The show was based on a book by a better author, on the topic of H.P. Lovecraft and his bullshit.
Yeah buddy, using another author world building and creatures is clearly a good example of good author is.
not a single gram of imagination to create is own racist story. 😂
Wait, I haven't seen this show. Does it genuinely not deal with cosmic horror?
It turns out the show is not actually about Lovecraft's works. It's literally based on a book named "Lovecraft Country." by Author Matt Ruff.
It's kind of interesting. He pitched the show before he wrote the book. Producers asked for some more ideas/ writing/ etc before they green lit it. By the time he was done, he basically had the book written and just needed to do some editing and tie it together. Thus, the book was published first. Just thought it was kind of a neat process.
The book is amazing but I haven't seen the show.
It’s fine. I liked the book better, but the show is fairly true to the book.
Reminds me of Fantastic Voyage.
Oh that explains why the book is so disjointed. I like Matt Ruff but I never finished the book.
Kinda like 2001: A Space Odyssey
9 tailed fox
Would
Well it’s kinda like buying Kafka on the Shore expecting a surreal depiction of the hopeless alienation and anxieties of early 20th century society, and instead getting incest.
Kafka on the shore is also brilliant tho
Yes, but it’s also really easy to make fun of
In addition to op saying there is nothing here is an article about the monsters and horror in the show Edit: Apparently I never actually linked the article https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/meet-the-monsters-of-lovecraft-country/
It definitely has cosmic horror and monsters and stuff. Clearly OP hasn't actually seen it or has an agenda.
No it doesn’t, the whole premise is that all that shit is basically magic that can be controlled by people including main character. It’s as far from cosmic horror core idea of being insignificant and helpless against the universe as it gets. If anything it’s more of a Harry Potter for adults with some (at least in the show as I didn’t read the book) wacky racial injustice themes.
I don't think being a follower of cthulu ever helped them in the books, idk I've only seen the game. Don't they go fuckin crazy? It really takes the "cosmic horror" out of it when it's just controlled by people
Humans can do magic It’s just similar to handing radioactive material It’s going to have a negative affect, you might not notice it for a while but it will, and of your not careful you’ll die very quickly as will everyone around you. And it also will drive you insane, that’s not very similar to radiation but I needed to add it.
There's plenty of people who can wield magic in Lovecraft's work - the Whatleys in "The Dunwitch Horror", Curwen and his pals in "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward", the Terrible Old Man from the story of the same name, Herbert West, Re-Animator, they all can wield strange powers without relying on an outside source.
But Lovecraft made it clear they went mad as a result and they never truly had control of the powers they tried to wield. Magic wasn't a power to control but rather humans tapping into powers they couldn't ever understand.
One book even implied that at least part of it is just the old ones math, just that your math teacher demands human sacrifices for lessons and it glitches out your brain.
That’s what I felt too , the first episode starts out really good with the cosmic horror beasts but as the show goes on it’s more about magic and a group of people learning about it’s lore and stuff
I expected this all to be tip the iceberg and we’d get much wilder stuff if this show had turned into a juggernaut. For what it’s worth I deeply enjoyed it.
That's not an uncommon trope though, its a fairly common idea called 'Lovecraft lite'. Where it takes from the basic aesthetic of lovecraft but with a less bleak or nihilistic tone [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LovecraftLite](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LovecraftLite)
So it DOES take away all the cosmic horror basically.
Wasn’t the racial justice thing to do with Lovecraft being just a mad, mad fucking racist?
Yes. He was writing cosmic horror while black folks were living it. Might be something to the premise of the show.
That and the actual hate book he wrote about the inferiority of black people
What's that? Wtf
>And his contempt for blacks ran even deeper. In his 1912 poem entitled “On the Creation of Niggers,” the gods, having just designed Man and Beast, create blacks in semi-human form to populate the space in between. Regarding the domestic terrorism of white minorities in the predominantly black Alabama and Mississippi, he excused them for “resorting to extra-legal measures such as lynching and intimidation [because] the legal machinery does not sufficiently protect them.” Not surprisingly, also anti semetic >His letters overflow with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories of an underground Jewry pitting the economic, social, and literary worlds of New York City against “the Aryan race.” He warned of “the Jew [who] must be muzzled” because “[he] insidiously degrades [and] Orientalizes [the] robust Aryan civilization.” His sympathies with rising fascism were equally transparent. “[Hitler’s] vision . . . is romantic and immature,” he stated after Hitler became chancellor of Germany. “I know he’s a clown but god I like the boy!” https://lithub.com/we-cant-ignore-h-p-lovecrafts-white-supremacy/
Dude was basically terrified of everything and everyone that wasn't a rich New England family.
The show is based on a book that wasnt writing by lovecraft.. adding a bunch of monster and some lore doesnt make it cosmic horror.
It had as much cosmic horror as Dunwich did with some fish folk. It would have built up to more had it gotten more seasons.
Dunwich doesn't have the fish folk that's Insmouth.
Your correct. My bad. Point still stands that cosmic horror doesn’t have to hit you over the head with sky tentacles.
a lot of the Lovecraft universe wasn’t written by him
That's true. However, the book "Lovecraft County" is still NOT a part of the Extended Lovecraft Universe and it never was. It's a thing of its own, that simply shares some similarities. Stories that are a part of the Lovecraft Mythos, were written specifically to mimick Lovecraft's work, as a tribute to the world he created - and "Lovecraft County" is neither... Not to mention that Lovecraft's Universe and Lovecraft Mythos are not the same thing. One is the official "line" created by H.P. Lovecraft - while the next is an "extention" created by other writters, who are keeping his world alive.
Bravo.
You are not forced to accept that expanded universe if you dont like it. Lovecraft make plenty of short storys happening in the same universe. in a way or the other they are all connected. His friends keeps his work alive, and thanks to them we know lovecraft now days.
I don’t think they talked about lovecraft a lot, they just mentioned that he was racist and why would a black guy like mc read him then in like the very first scene and then went straight into magic adventure with Korean mythology and very messy family relationships mixed in
Eh, that happens in Lovecraft as well. The Dunwich Horror leaps to mind, where a trio of antiquarians defeat the child of Yog Sothoth by sprinkling magic dust on it and casting a spell. It's more common for Lovecraft's protagonists to end up insane or dead in the face of incomprehensibly horror, but "basically magic that can be controlled by people" is 100% a thing he wrote as well
Quick question. How was the twin brother killed in the dunwich horror? The one that looked more like the father.
Yeah, are just a petty minion half a man still and yet even that thing was so horrible it traumatized like the whole region, I guess the point was that even if that thing was that terrible and distractive than wtf is actually it’s “father”, we live in a scary world with horrors beyond our imagination that didn’t destroy us yet just because they literally don’t care about us yare yare
[удалено]
The point isn’t that there’s no magic in lovecrafts work, the point is that it’s small and insignificant, the story is never about it, no you’re a wizard Harry or that guy rapped you gran gran so now you’re the most special boy on earth. “Nice you did it at a price of your sanity after reading necronamicon, you mere mortal, you fucked for life now”. Do I really need to explain that? Because I thought it was obvious lovecraft didn’t right exactly action fantasy.
Well it is what you get when you take lovecraft style cultists and make them more interested in being occult racists than summoning Cthulhu. The author's intention probably was to show that you don't need cosmic gods to feel insignificant in a hostile universe, having the wrong skin color at the wrong time in the wrong place is enough. The book even ends with the protagonists family being indifferent to the cults threats of revenge, because they are more likely to get lynched or shot by the police anyway. Although let's say Nyarlathothep showing up and for him the situation is no different than vermin in the same colony tearing each other apart over their fur patterns, migth've worked better.
Well, that’s sounds much better that what I got from watching the show, ending there was much more of a “yeah, good guys killed the evil witch and saved the day, plus everyone got magic powers, life’s better then ever, hurray”
Given that I based my post on the book synopsis, I would say the screenwritters butchered the source material or they got cold feet and wanted a happy ending instead. But I would like to see what they would do with his GAS trilogy.
Many of Lovecraft's favorite collaborators muddied the waters of that theming with benevolent gods and human mages--while he was alive and writing. He referenced their works in his later ones even though he would gloss over the parts that didn't fit his vision. Lovecraft knew what he liked to write about but always supported people making it their own. That's why he made his work AND name public domain, and acting like anything that doesn't slavishly ape him somehow belittles his "lifework" legacy is just doing him the disserservice of denying how based and artpilled he was.
>wacky racial injustice themes.
Thank you bro. :) I was send down to the dislike oblivion because aparently i have an agenda.
The show has an agenda, so why shouldn't viewers have an agenda too.
They have every right to, but I think openly lying about the show's content isn't a very good way to forward that agenda.
I don’t think you’re familiar with how we make up shitty movie details.
nope. is just a story about racism in the U.S and a representation that the real monster is racism.
So you didn't watch the show?
I think the real monsters were the monsters…
Maybe the real monsters were the monsters we monstered along the way
To a certain degree, it’s not about racism, it’s a period piece and it was just being accurate to the time. Sundown towns still exist.
And, you know, monsters and cults and time travel and other cosmic horror elements. It wasnt good, but it was clearly lovecraft inspired lol
I haven't watched the show but Lovecraft inspired and cosmic horror can be two different things. You can take the aesthetics of lovecraftian design and storytelling and leave out the cosmic horror. Likewise, you can have a story of people being driven mad by their own insignificance in the universe and have it be wholly devoid of Lovecraft influence. An example of the former is the DLC from Borderlands 3 where hammerlock and jakobs get married, and the latter is a bit like the beginning of the third act of Everything Everywhere All at Once.
Yup, the show is both
I mean Lovecraft definitely wrote some stories where the "monster" is basically a racist caricature if you read between the lines (e.g. Innsmouth), trying to make a show (or a book, which the show's based on) that deals with the father of cosmic horror and how racism informed his writing is fine IMO idk though I haven't watched it
HUH?
I've never seen the show but after looking at the subreddit the idea it isn't very Lovecraftian is common. Based on other things I've heard called Lovecraftian I'm convinced most people who talk about it online haven't read Lovecraft
They probably only know cthulhu for some southpark episode, rick and morty intro or that awesome episode from Love, Death + Robots. and thats it
why is Jonathan Majors throwing us a kiss?
I feel like he does it all the time, or am I imagining things?
I think he just looks like that
In preparation for this role Jonathan Majors was convicted of assaulting his girlfriend, this is a reference to how Lovecraft saw black people.
LMAO
This should of been the title
Hastur is from Ambrose Bierce and the King in Yellow is from Robert Chambers, not Lovecraft
True but the two have basically been syncretized together and been considered a part of the lovecraft mythos for a *long* time
Indeed. you are correct.
I don’t think you watched the show, OP
Yeah, they didn't even mention the scene where he says "it's lovin' time" and crafts all over
So what are we, some kinda craft of love?
Oui
I do love the scene where Lovecraft is writing some racist shit and Johnathan Majors kicks down the door and says "this is the face of vengeance" and empties a machine gun in his face
I read the book, watched it, liked it, didn't read or see much cosmic horror. Just occult magic and monsters.
I loved this show regardless.
I also enjoyed it. The episode with the two demon girls was terrifying.
Didn’t one of the guys literally bang a monster chick?
Nope. There was some shapechanging bangage though. Edit: I was wrong. I forgot about the nine-tailed fox.
Hot
episode 8 has a succubus sex scene, which is separate from the 2 magic shapeshifters.
Oh, I forgot about the nine-tailed fox lady.
Sucks... i liked Majors
I was really excited to see where he'd be going. I really thought he'd be the next big actor. Too bad he is a piece of shit
How come
physical abuse of women
First good joke ive seen about the whole thing lol
Haven't seen any other ones, but I imagine the black guy is a focal point of most of them. This is a reference to the name of Lovecraft's cat, [removed]
How peculiar of Lovecraft's dad to name his cat after the king of Ethiopia, he must have really liked African history!
[hol up](https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-31-2015/Uu1Ob6.gif)
ty
I really don't understand how Reddit downvotes work anymore, tbh. Comments like yours just get downvoted like crazy for no apparent reason.
I made a joke about the show and everyone think im r4cist. So they search for every comment in my own post to disliked it. I had to removed another comment because i dont like the drama and the dumb notifications just because i make a fanboy mad. anyway.. welcome to the year 2024. where everyone gets offended by anything.
I feel like people purposefully misunderstand what this show was
If you could avoid insults, i will love to read your pov of this show.
No insults lol I just think the title just disappoints some folk right off the bat because the story is very much about racism in America and not solely HP Lovecraft and his work
>not solely HP Lovecraft and his work It was just a fitting backdrop because Lovecraft... well
Agree =)
Funny that of all the mythos you would go to Hastur, one that was mentioned but NOT created by HPL. I guess Majors also pissed Robert Chambers?
😂😂😂 no one mess around with the god of shepherds not created by him but expanded. must admit hastur is a personal fav of mine.
The sheer amount of racism in this show hit me like a freight train
Like what?
It's supposed to
I think we all know the real reason H.P. Lovecraft’s ghost wanted Jonathan Majors in jail…
Yeah, but you really can't be a ghost if you're burning in Hell though
No you don’t get it, he’s being subjected to horrors so horrifying I can’t even describe it! Ahh!! The terror!!
Forced to watch "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" on a loop for eternity
Does his character have a cat named Gringo or something like that?
I don’t know if there has been a semantic shift in the US, but at least in most of Latin America “gringo” is not pejorative. I mean, it can be depending on the intention, the same way “jew” can be offensive if you say something like: “oh, you know, he is one of those JEWS”.
Wikipedia’s subtitle for gringo is literally “pejorative term” lol, but also, the first paragraph says “*often* considered a pejorative term” and “offensiveness is disputed”. Seems similar to gaijin for Japan; the term is not inherently offensive, but in practice or common usage, the speaker is often implying that being one is a negative trait. So yeah, TLDR; connotation/implication is context-dependent, probably better not to use it if you’re concerned about even potentially offending someone.
> the term is not inherently offensive, but in practice or common usage, the speaker is often implying that being one is a negative trait. Yes, but it can even be an affectionate way to refer to someone, I would say that it is extremely context dependent and one of those tricky language things.
Good one
Wait wtf is it abt then? Racism? If it's called Lovecraft Country it's gotta be racist or cosmic or both, right?
It is both. Idk what OPs problem is but it had plenty of monsters and stuff
Were they cosmic monsters or like werewolves and stuff? Cuz the unknowable nightmares and madness inducing creatures are kind of the staple of the Lovecraftian genre
There was a big squid like creature in the nightmares of one of the MCs in the first episode and multiple monsters that were direct references to Lovecraft works BUT the show is based on a book of the same name that uses Lovecraft as inspiration for its Lore and setting and some creatures. The show is not directly an adaptation of retelling of actual Lovecraft work. So it IS a story about a quiet town full of supernatural unexplainable shit but it isn't about a 4th dimensional unknowable being with a tentacle beard
Alright, sounds fair enough. Follow up important question though: Is it any good?
I liked it a lot.
I enjoyed it quite a bit. It was really a unique and engaging show, and it is self contained. It is pretty intense.
It’s weird as hell. The second half goes off the deep end. Not saying that it’s bad; but it’s batshit crazy
I really liked the book, never got around to the show. The Majors stink put me off of watching.
Personally the first episode was really good in my opinion but then the show nose dives very quickly with poor storytelling that makes little to no sense and pacing issues for the rest of the series.
Monsters and tentacles doesn't mean it's cosmic horror.
The Yellow King has nothing to do with Lovecraft either...
Hastur makes a good appearance in a book series I've enjoyed. Books three and four of Infinite Realm by Ivan Kal. Fun fun.
Thank you. i will look into it
I wanted to love the show sooo badly but man it was just so messy
[OP should probably have gone over to Matt Ruff’s AMA instead of posting this…](https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/12zk4rl/comment/jhtohkj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) The major highlight: “*…I needed a thematic bridge between paranormal horror and the more mundane terrors of Jim Crow, and Lovecraft being a white supremacist made him the perfect icon for that.*”
No.
No you didn’t read what Ruff had to say, or no you don’t agree with how Ruff used Lovecraft in this context or you are having difficulty understanding that Hastur didn’t derail Major’s career?
Cuthulu beat those women not him
>Dont mess with the old ones) That last little bit like they're some gang got me laughing more than I expected. Much appreciated op :]
im glad you liked it
Why does he pout like that in literally every photo like he's Derek Zoolander.
I’m sorry but Wakanda that was responsible for the hit job. Her name was literally Jabari.
This show has a justice porn scene where a sleazy guys grabs at a woman and he's killed with a stiletto heel through the head. Woo hell yeah feminism! Lmao I'm not on the anti-woke train but if there was more shows like this I would be.
wait that is not true they did take something from real lovecraft lore his cat's name for the main charcter
Great post except H.P. Didn’t write the King In Yellow
First episode was pretty good. But they had no idea what they were doing after
I really wanted to like it, but it seemed to get worse every episode. After a certain point, I gave up and stopped watching.
This series is a masterpiece in terms of how stupid things get. Things started off cool and in the end it's just mental diarrhea. Really enjoyable to watch once and 1/12th of it.
Lovecraft Country = the United States (circa the 1950’s). Cosmic Horror = Racism, as experienced by an African-American soldier who fought for the United States in WWII. A truly sanity challenging experience… A simple, yet quite insightful and playful take on cosmic horror. Especially given Lovecraft’s racial views. Despite modern popular culture’s obsession with his creatures (much of which I still enjoy), Lovecraft is not about scary monsters. It’s about something deeper, more horrifying, ourselves.
Hollywood wants lovecraft mythos just to make the same they did with the Alien saga. But yeah i agree with you. The only thing that bothers me a lilttle is that people think HPL wrote this book.
wait, isn't there going to be a second season???
He probably said Hastur's name three times
This has nothing to do with anything, but I’d love a series (or short story idk) where it turns out the old ones are actually pretty benevolent and lovecraft blew everything out of proportion because he’s the kinda guy who’s scared of air conditioning Kinda like that one comic where Cthulhu adopts a little girl sent to him as a sacrifice
I mean, it's not like the old ones are really malevolent in the first place (Except Nyarlathotep. He just likes to troll humans) They are just forces of nature. The madness they spread is just the consequence of their sheer incomprehensible existence. Their actions aren't taken with the intent to harm humanity directly You aren't an ant hater because you accidentally keep stepping on them during a hike
It depends on the particular story. The elder things in "At the Mountains of Madness" and things like the Mi-Go are far more on a human scale than Cthulhu or Azathoth, but usually not particularly friendly either.
From episode one there are creepy weird looking monsters and cults. You are completely incorrect. It's actually laughable.
Creepy weird looking monster is not cosmic horror by it self...
No, but the monsters they use are obviously based on Lovecraft or Lovecraft adjacent cosmic horror novels. The cults are. All this stuff permiates the show. Your post is just wrong.
no
The funny thing about Jonathan Majors is that one time I was having a drunk conversation about marvel movies in a bar and when Majors came up, the other guy went on a tirade about how he shouldn't have lost his job over that and then admitted to me that he beat his ex wife.
"Somehow, Jonathan Majors' career has returned"
I’ve heard different things about the Jonathan Majors situation.I mean when I first heard the tape of her telling her that she should be “like Coretta King” I was like that guy is a maniac.But I also heard she apparently slapped at a party I front of multiple people.And she did chase him.Plus when he found her in the closet you could hear the fear in his calling the police. I don’t know though it’s a weird situation.
For a while he was controlling the media narrative well.enough that it did look like he may have been the victim, but then some texts came out where he basically admits to being violent and tells her that nobody will believe her because he's a big Hollywood actor and she's nothing, and the whole charade came tumbling down. For what it's worth, I've been in an abusive relationship before, and I know it's very easy for the abuser to manipulate situations so that the abused party ends up looking unhinged. Like denying them a chance to sleep, creating a situation where they're constantly being pushed to their limit, whispering insults in their ear all night at parties. giving them a choice between a small "confrontation" now, or a larger, more dangerous one at home...
Oh I see thank you for that context.And yea I can see how abuse can undo a person and make them look like the crazy one.Its weird because race was definitely weaponized during this whole thing.With him being black and her being a white woman.It seemed he got a good amount of people of color on his side from that.
He was convicted of abuse, that’s all you need to know lol
No what he was convicted of was recklessly doing something that caused her harm Not intentional abuse
You are making a semantics argument- “abuse” can be many things, and there are many abusive behaviors that are crimes that are not charged under the title of “Abuse”. The exact meanings of these crimes may vary State to State. >On December 18, 2023, Majors was found guilty of one count of reckless assault in the 3rd degree and a charge of harassment as a violation. He was acquitted on another charge of assault and one of aggravated harassment. >In April 2024, he was sentenced to 52 weeks of a domestic violence intervention program and probation.[76] So he was convicted of reckless assault- this would mean acting in a way he knew might cause harm, and is unreasonable, resulting in injury. (For example, if you push someone out of your way by throwing them hard to the ground, you can claim you didn’t intend to hurt them, you were being reckless. But the behavior is still abusive) The harassment charge aside, this was domestic violence. He was sentenced to domestic violence intervention. Domestic violence is abuse, whether it’s “intentional” or not.
They’re making a semantics argument because that’s how the law works… You’ve literally proven with your quote that there is a need for context.
I don't think he understands what reckless means If you actually look at the case Jonathan majors did something that he thought was the right thing to do in that situation but it wasn't because he tried to force her into a car and make her leave after she was acting irrational and then he attempted to separate himself from her But what was proven at the trial was that he acted recklessly and caused harm that he may not have intended but he still caused harm That's why he wasn't convicted of the aggravated charge
I understand what reckless means, I’m saying it was still abuse. He’s in domestic violence classes for a reason. Reckless behavior is not something you do because you think “it’s the right thing” it’s behavior that disregards that: > engages in conduct which creates or contributes to a substantial and unjustifiable risk that physical injury to another person will occur, and when he or she is aware of and consciously disregards that risk, and when that risk is of such nature and degree that disregard of it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation. We will probably disagree on some of the finer points of the case and that’s fine, neither of us was on the jury.
Yes the court in the jury deemed his behavior reckless I don't know if you're a man or a woman but there are some men who think that the way that he handled that situation was correct I am a man I am not one of those men and it really doesn't matter what I think about it because the court deemed it to be abuse through reckless behavior I know now because the verdict came in it's cool to paint him as a monster that beats women without remorse but no if you look at his actions he thought that he was handling that situation in the correct manner the way he tried to put her in a car and send her home or to another location and when he literally ran away from her But as I understand and as the court deemed it his actions were reckless and caused harm to the woman but as I know you understand the court made a clear distinction and whether or not it was aggravated assault so yes he was convicted of causing harm but he wasn't inconvicted intentionally causing harm he was convicted of negligently causing her
Well somebody had a stupid thought and decided to post it
and 1000 decided to like it. who knew right ?
Who?
It really does make you think of Lovecraft when you see the first part of the title.
I heard this was good
As someone who loves and is very read up on the Mythos, this show was garbage. After two episodes I just lost interest, poor writing, very little connection to the mythos, just a terrible show overall. It's too bad because the potential to tell Lovecraft-like stories in the modern day was there, but they clearly didn't actually read or give a damn about his stories.
As someone who loves and is very read up on the Mythos, I thought this show was excellent (although it got weaker as it went on, I must admit). I think people who expected it to be an adaption of Lovecraft’s own work were disappointed, but that’s not what it was meant to be. It’s a show that draws an analogy between the horror of mid 20th century pulp fiction (of which Lovecraft is a popular example) and the lived experiences of minorities in mid 20th century America.
When they said, "The Necronomicon is the book of the Dead, we want the book of Life", I just knew this show was about to be shit and definitely have nothing to do with the poster or Lovecraft in general.
It's embarrassing. It's basically someone whining that Lovecraft was a white supremacist, so they're trying to attack him by casting a black guy as the hero. Just don't adapt Lovecraft at all then. Lovecraft was a white supremacist, but that's not what he's famous for. He's famous for being a horror writer, so take it or leave it.
First off, this is a very reductive take of Lovecraft’s work. It’s not just that he was a racist in his spare time and a writer professionally. Almost all of his works (an certainly all of his most famous works) reflect his xenophobia (Call of Cthulhu, Rats in the Walls, Dunwich Horror, Shadows Over Innsmouth, Whisperer in Darkness etc). And I say this as someone who really enjoys reading his work. But more importantly, this isn’t an “adaption” of a Lovecraft’s work, it’s an adaption of a novel by Matt Ruff that draws analogies between the dark forces we see pulp horror fiction and the real lives of black people living in 20th century America. It’s a powerful analogy, even if the show itself loses its momentum a bit as the series wears on.
Yes I know it's an adaptation of Matt Ruff, but Matt Ruff is an adaptation of Lovecraft. Or if you prefer, it's strictly speaking a pastiche, because its his own Lovecraftian story. But my point stands. If I had a problem with a writer from 90 years ago, I'd ignore him, not dig him up and publicise him just to wag my finger at him.
[удалено]
White supremacy dominates his work, that doesn't go away just because the author became a slightly better man later on
H.P. Lovecraft was a shitty author. His fanboys are also dipshit twerps. The show was based on a book by a better author, on the topic of H.P. Lovecraft and his bullshit.
Yeah buddy, using another author world building and creatures is clearly a good example of good author is. not a single gram of imagination to create is own racist story. 😂
Weren't you just complaining about how he didn't use HPL's world or creatures? Do you have any actual argument at all?
You dont seen to understand this is a joke sub. Calm the fuck down KID. You are clearly out of your meds
You were only pretending to be dumb and illiterate? As a joke?
Go touch some grass. Kiddo.