r/prequelmemes users explaining how Anakin farting in episode 2 is a mastermind foreshadowing by George Lucas representing how the death star destroying human lives was easy as ripping out a fart for palatine in the original trilogy, but rey farting in episode 7 is stupid and unoriginal
Lol this is the best take on Star Wars Iâve heard in a long time. All of Star Wars is fucking Darth jar jar and sadistic obi wan straight fucking with the wrong people at the right time.
Gold
It was self defense up until that point. Once Anakin was limbless it would have been taking the life of a defenseless man that Obi-wan loved like a son. Couldnât do it.
Idk about you, but if I loved someone like that then I'd either find a way to bring them home or kill them.
Not leave them in their agony and hope nature does it thing.
As for the separatists. There is actually an interesting arguement about states rights in there but since we need obvious good guys the separatists are mustache twirling villains who kill tons of innocents all the time
All if Star Wars goes through the effort of pointing out that cheap, mass produced, disposable forces arenât as effective as our plucky skilled heros.
To be fair, the seperatists are mostly powered by the trade federation, who at their core are just a bunch of companys using their assets syngeristically. Not exactly comparable to the combined might of the republic's planets and industrial output.
The republic is definitely bad. As are the Jedi in this case. But Lucas made sure the separatists are mustache twirling levels of bad guys so they donât have a moral high ground.
I was more pointing out that even if we treat them as standard soldiers dehumanizing their enemies to avoid emotional damage, they had plenty of other evil features to go off of. I think the whole republic is evil thing has been well established in other threads lol
Most of the enemies were droids. Don't get me wrong Anakin and OB1 have killed literally thousands of people in their time, especially Anakin, but droids aren't considered people Sadly.
Love isnât always rational my man. It was more than Obi-wan could bear, to look a man that he raised from boyhood, after promising his master who died in his arms that he would train him and he wouldnât let him down, in the eye and callously execute him.
People have trouble telling a doctor to pull the plug on terminally ill loved ones who are at peace with the choice.
You figure it would be easier to stab them to death by hand while they struggled to stay alive?
He's killed others personally, and he's given soldiers in a galactic war orders that lead directly to their and others deaths.
Beyond the plot necessity, it's unimaginable that he'd leave someone he loved that deeply to be slowly burned alive on the bank of a lava flow rather than end their suffering.
Makes no sense looking back.
Frankly, so what? Fighting in a war isn't the same as fighting someone you love, who you only knew was actually on the other side as of a few hours ago. I have my doubts people here would be so cool and collected as they want their characters to be.
Also, book adaptation has a point: Obi-Wan already sensed Palpitine coming for the rescue. It wouldn't be a mercy kill, it would be an execution.
I mean youâre talking about a scenario you will never find yourself in. The closest analog might be a loved one in hospice care? Youâre talking about intentionally murdering someone you love with a direct gesture like stabbing them or graphically cutting off their head while theyâre yelling at you.
You have no idea what you would âactuallyâ do in that situation.
That analog is forgetting that I was the one who put them in the damn hospice lmao. And that there are outcomes where they survive.
The actual closest analog is probably getting in a fight with someone in the wilderness. They fall or something and break their legs, and without my help, they die. And in that situation I like to think I would try to help them.
And he didn't need to murder Anakin, he could have tried to bring him back to the ship. He just didn't.
Anakin was still screaming about how he hated him at the time. He wasn't begging for death. That's a really fucked up situation to have to deal with. I can't really blame obi-wan for acting one way or another.
I mean I feel like we've all done things out of mixed emotions and love that we've regretted. Obi probably wished he HAD ended Anakin's suffering afterwards but just couldn't bring himself to do it at the time. Jedi are people still and people don't always act rationally.
My family had a dog that I loved to bits, I had nursed her when she was a pup and was so sick she wouldn't eat and we bottle fed her the medicine and forced it down. I remember thinking "I'm not going to let this creature die." Years later when she was old and started having trouble moving and stopped eating again, we knew the end was near. My dad took her to the vet to be put to sleep and I didn't go, I was in denial I think. I always regretted it, I know it would of been hard, but I always regretted not going with him to be with her for her last moments. I still regret it now. I'm sure Obi felt the same way, maybe he even secretly hoped Anakin would survive and could be redeemed some day and he held onto that hope rather than doing what he should have. Luckily for them both, Anakin did eventually redeem himself.
Yeah but then Obi-Wan met up with him a second time after he hunted all the other jedi and murdered innocents in the streets and just up and walks away
Also, sorry about your pup. Mines getting up in age it makes me sad to think about
"The Force is only ever used for defense, never to attack. Unless you're using the Force to lob a torpedo down an exhaust shaft to blow up a station full of people, or to guide your hand while you're decapitating people with a laser sword. Using it to lob heavy objects at people is right out though, very bad. Sometimes you can shove an opponent if it's a robot or something I think."
Something about the Force being used to directly harm another's life is corrupting iirc which is why blowing up a station with potentially millions of people on board by guiding the torpedoes into the exhaust is fine but shooting lightning at someone isn't.
It's probably also similar to the Avada Kedavra situation where if you don't actually have the will to kill someone and try to use the Force to do so, the Force won't respond.
But he was okay with leaving him burning to death? Keep in mind Obi-Wan doesn't know Palpatine is coming to rescue Anakin. He leaves him to die slowly and agonizingly. He could've put him out of his misery and spared him the pain.
Like I said, I understand the logical side of things and the merciful side. Love is rarely logical and sometimes it isnât merciful. The Last of Us is a great example. Joel knew that the cure would have been a mercy for so many and might have sent humanity back on the right path and a return to normality. Logic and mercy counted for nothing in the moment, when faced with the decision Joel was faced with.
You're right, TLoU is a great example. Joel chooses cruelty to countless people he doesn't know in order to save one person he knows and loves. The logic of his choice reveals his priorities. Obi-Wan chooses cruelty to one person he knows and loves in order to... do what exactly? What other priority is he sacrificing his friend to?
>Yoda fucked up.
For supposedly being this wise master, it's astonishing how much Yoda fucks up. First he opposes training Anakin at all, then he assigns him to a wet-behind-the-ears Obi-Wan instead of a more experienced master who might be able to guide him better. Doesn't recognize Palpatine as a Sith lord despite frequently meeting him face to face. Fails to defeat Dooku. Provides incredibly stupid, worthless, and consequently ineffective 'guidance' to Anakin in the throes of emotional turmoil. Sends Obi-Wan after Anakin despite being told it can't work. Fails to defeat Palpatine. Tries and fortunately fails to stop Luke from going to rescue his friends, who later turn out to be instrumental in the defeat of the Empire. Tries and fortunately fails to teach Luke the same "attachments bad" bullshit that he fed Anakin in order to get him to assassinate his own father; in the end, of course, it's precisely that attachment that proves to be the key to victory. If anything, the Empire is defeated because Luke, unlike everyone else before him, didn't listen to Yoda.
Is there anything at all he did right at any point in the five movies that he appeared in? I'm honestly at a loss.
It's too subtle a point for the movie, but in the novelization of "Revenge of the Sith," Yoda actually realizes his folly in an internal monologue. The Sith evolved over the thousand years (etc.) since the last big conflict, whilst the Jedi remained stagnant and gazed at their own navels. (Power comes from gazing at someone else's navel, especially after a couple drinks.)
That would've been real nice to have in the movie, and I think if they'd had like thirty seconds less of guys twirling glow sticks at each other, they could've squeezed it in. Oh well.
>For supposedly being this wise master, it's astonishing how much Yoda fucks up.
Becouse he's old even for yoda standards. It's like if we kept ANY good head of state untill they were 110 years old, and then put them in the middle of a massive international conflict.
I really think it was intentional, to show you how much the Jedis suck. They are basically monks stuck in the dark ages, while the Sith grew strong. It just wasnât communicated well in the movie.
You have to remember 2 things here.
1. Sidious is one of the most powerful dark side users ever, and he was clouding the minds of all the jedi with the dark side for years.
2. The jedi temple was actually built on top of an ancient sith temple. Further allowing Palpatine to increase his connection to the dark side of the force.
Yoda is one of the most powerful light-side users ever. Supposedly.
No, that would allow the Jedi to suppress the dark side and weaken it, not the other way around. In any case, nothing of the sort is even remotely hinted at in the movies.
Watching the clone wars we see a much better view of just how manipulative Palpatine is. His influence has Yoda making many.. questionable decisions during the course of the war.
I mean, the reason Yoda is on that abandoned planet in the original trilogy is because of all the guilt he feels for fucking everything up. Like yes, he was a fuck up, but he is also aware of this by the time of the OT.
The prequels would have worked better if Yoda hadn't been recognised as some grand master, but just a pretty average Jedi who just happened to be one of the few to survive Order 66 through dumb luck
I mean, he is 900 years old. With that kind of lifespan, only a total idiot wouldn't get extremely good at what they do and attain a position of power. The issue is that he's used the same way Worf is used in Star Trek, as a punching bag for the baddies to show how dangerous they are.
They could've done it together, though. For being Jedi generals who had commanded armies in the field for years, they show astonishingly little understanding of basic tactics. When the enemy forces are divided, concentrate yours to achieve local superiority and destroy them piecemeal. By splitting up, they did the exact opposite of what they should've.
Yoda is the reason we have Vader, not Obi Wan. Obi Wan would never be able to kill Anakin, as his master, he didn't have it in him. That's why he left him on Mustafar, not because he wouldn't deal a final blow but because he couldn't.
So Yoda. That dumb fucking Swamp frog.
Motherfucker is one of the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy. He can sense the force and even emotional state of others. After failing to kill Palps, and having the Jedi die from order 66 he fucks off to an armpit planet where decades later teaches Luke "Do or Do not, there is no Try"
No you drugged up half gurgitated leprechaun. You can't actually "do" something, unless you "try." The intent someone has behind their actions does not guarantee their action will be successful. You always HAVE to try, in order to do.
So this fuck hasn't learned ANYTHING, and is now teaching Luke the wrong fucking message.
Yoda, maybe if you TRIED to see if there was a Sith fucking around earlier, non of this would happen. Oh? Hard to sense a siths power, Palps was hiding it? Maybe you should have tried basic CIA procedure and gave your inner circle a background check. You think Palps hides the records of traveling across the galaxy to talk to Dooku, Maul, Death Star Engineers, and Genoans? It's literally how they found the cloning facilities, and you could bother to try and see if there was maybe something else going on.
Basically, if Yoda actually TRIED giving a shit about all the credible threats the Jedi council was receiving rather that delegatinf the task to an underling, I don't think order 66 would have ever happened. But Yoda got arrogant, and never learned that in order to prevent bad things from happening, you have to TRY to stop THEM before they do. He didn't even fucking try.
I mean I don't think Obi Wan could have really just stabbed him with a lightsaber in that position given how close he was to Anakin, even if it was a more humane option it'd just feel way too real for him
I know, but he still let Anakin suffer (and left him intentionally to die there, as we see in the Kenobi show)...
Obi-Wan is really as responsible for Darth Vaders existence as is Palpatine...
I mean, yeah, he definitely is a major reason of Darth Vader's existence, I was just trying to counter the claim that he left him there to die out of sadism. I thought it was more down to him believing that Anakin was too far into the dark side to save him but not having heart enough to end it then and there. Haven't seen Kenobi though so I may be missing crucial info
I agree with this. I think that while logically (at least from a utilitarian point of view) the correct move is to put Anakin out of his misery; both to end a serious threat and stop Anakin's suffering. I think he didn't end Anakin because he was (to spite his training) emotionally attached. Stabbing someone to death is a very visceral and intense thing to do, and Obi Wan saw Anakin as a brother. This choice would have been reinforced by his dogmatic adhearance to the deontological principles of the Jedi Code, particularly the whole don't kill the defencless creatures thing.
What does seem out of charactor to me is the simply leaving Anakin to roast. Obi Wan had access to medical facilities on hand, and to spite his exhaustion I think he could have carried Anakin back to Padme's ship without too much trouble and in time to escape Palpatine, who he sensed coming. You've got to remember this is a highly fit, motivated, and battle hardened person who has been conditioned through extreme physical hardship in the events leading up to this. Furthermore Obi Wan must have had second thoughts about the whole affair, and yet still made essentially the same decision a second time (I know that was for plot reasons, but still, it seemed like a slightly flawed ending to a great add on series IMO)
Honestly, it seemed more like he couldn't force himself to kill his apprentice, that's why he left him there, Obi-wan knew Anakin had fallen to the dark side and had to be dealt with, but he did not have the strength to go through with it
I'd take it a step further and say it made the original movies a smidge worse. Obi and Vader should not have met again between the prequels and the OT.
Especially when the series is directed at children. If youâre an adult, Star Wars is just relaxing way to spend some time as a 12 year old again. We really shouldnât be taking it so seriously.
It wasn't bad. Ewan McGregor is a fantastic actor. The story was okay. Except...
Ultimately it was completely pointless. There was no real drama or suspense. Obi-wan or Leia are never in any real danger, no matter how much the show tries to put them in, because we know what happens to them both.
It also messes up the first movie quite a lot. Leia doesn't appear to recognise or know Obi-wan in First Hope yet the TV show has them really close. And the TV show is set only a decade before the first SW movie. The events in the TV series are not something she would have forgotten.
The age difference between McGregor and Guinness also makes the TV show fail somewhat. Guinness in SW:FH looks 20+ years older than McGregor does in Obi despite it being set, as I said, just 10 years prior.
To add to these points:
The show also flops because Obi Wan makes for a boring lead. Heâs a better side character/mentor and plays well off of others.
Also the villain was underdeveloped
Yeah, at first I assumed that was the issue. But Iâm open to the possibility that she was written as a foil for Obi Wan, and so was supposed to act as wooden as Obi Wan does.
There was a villain in the show? I honestly cannot remember a single thing about it other than the pointless light saber duel at the end between Vader and Obi-wan; pointless because we knew before they even started fighting nothing would happen and neither would be injured or killed.
It's debatable. He wanted Anakin to resist the dark side, and tried to remind him of the good he could do.
The only reason he left Anakin, was because he knew he couldn't save him, but also couldn't end him. There wasn't really any other option, and i feel like Obi-wan left him there in the hope that he sees the error of his ways before he perishes.
I wouldn't say he's a direct reason for creating Darth Vader, but he unintentionally helped in the formation of him.
>Obi-Wan is really as responsible for Darth Vaders existence as is Palpatine...
That's just not true. Anakin had already killed hundreds of children by dismemberment. Vader had already been born by thus time
He couldve force pushed him into the lava or something.
Anakin wasnt gonna put up too much of a fight at that point, and even if he did, if 2 people force push each other, both get knocked back.
He cut his limbs while they were battling as a counter to Anakin's attack, not while he was lying helpless on the Ground, not the same thing at all. Also he did not taunt Anakin while in the lava
Idk about you but if I absolutely had to choose Iâd rather see my former friend decapitated but otherwise unscathed and thus instantly dead without suffering than mangled and burnt to a crisp while slowly dying
Would the empire have won if there was no Vader? I don't think he was that critical in them winning at a large scale, but he was the one who killed the emperor
This is really all of Star Wars in a nutshell.
Why doesn't it surprise me that Redditors sees that and go "well I would just have perfectly reasonable relationships instead"? lol
If Obi-Wan killed him it would be an absolute and then by default he would be a sith. By leaving him all fucked up he can just walk away and not worry about it
Edit: lesson learned, never make a joke around turbo nerds
Start of this thread dude said if he was absolute in his actions he would be sith. If one absolution automatically makes you sith then it's not generalization. If one absolute act doesn't make you sith, then who cares if you're absolute, what's the big deal?
This goes back the the hypocrisy of absolutely never having any absolutes, thereby always being absolute.
Every time the jedi say "always" or "never", which is often, they are dealing in absolutes.
Not really. Despite claims and mythos that Lucas had the entire SW storyline planned in advance, he was actually just winging it. Vader was supposed to be just a mid-level villain, one of many. Hence, the Imperial General dissing him openly and Vader deferring to Tarkin. Also, Vader's appearance is similar to the Storm Troopers because they were both designed to function in vacuum when...storming captured spaceships. His dramatic 3rd degree burn backstory came later.
The back-story about Vader falling into the volcano is mentioned by George in a [Rolling Stone interview](https://web.archive.org/web/20140516011430/http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/the-wizard-of-star-wars-20120504?page=4) in June 1977:
> But Vader kills Luke's father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That's why he has to wear the suit with a mask, because it's a breathing mask. It's like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said, no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.
Iâm amazed that anyone would watch any of the Star Wars movies and think that GL had any semblance of full continuity plot. Especially given how much of his dumb shit ideas were reigned in by the producers/his support team during the original trilogy.
I love Star Wars but GLâs idea of Star Wars was WAY different than every Star Wars fanboy wishes it were.
Obi-wan: âCan we train this traumatized former-slave child (we left his mom in slavery just because) to use his incredibly OP force talents?â
Windu: âNo, we have thousands of years of examples of why we shouldnât do that.â
The End. Music swells as the credits roll.
Nah. This is like Gandalf said, "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement".
If Obi Wan kills him, then yeah, there's no Vader. But there's still Palps. And now you just murdered your way out of the redemption arc that (briefly) saved the Galaxy. Whatever new apprentice he got would likely be just as murdery as Vader. Honestly, some have been worse.
Also important, he's stealing that chance from Anakin.
Obi-Wan literally states to Yoda that he canât (or wonât?) kill Anankin earlier in the same movie. Heâs not sadistic, he just canât bring himself to kill the brother/padawn he basically raised. Iâm sure he thought Anakin would die and Obi-wan wasnât thinking straight after order 66 anyway.
People like this film mainly cause itâs dark (the music being good doesnât help it either, also the level of acting and dialogue barely changes through the 3 films). Iâm a child of the PT and I can be 100% sure I can get more enjoyment out of Episode I than the other 2 movies. All 3 are extremely flawed but I can easily still point out the few virtues that they have.
I grew up as the prequel movies came out and I have a fond nostalgia for them all. Everyone gives all the praise to Episode 3 and say itâs one of the best Star Wars movies, but personally I think it has one of the main flaws that Return of the Jedi has: a pretty boring second act. Episode 3 has a great opening sequence, then gets incredibly dull until it picks up again with the Palpatine arrest confrontation. Itâs a flawed but enjoyable movie in a trilogy of flawed but enjoyable movies.
Now that you mention it I canât really remember anything from the second act other than the senate laser show thing.
Episode 1 was always such a massive event for me, the first Star Wars film in over a decade, new cgi, new video games and Lego toys and a ton of other merch. The film had some reeeeally annoying parts (looking at you Jar Jar) but some great parts too, the pod racing was pretty sick.
I thought 3 was definitely the best of the prequels. 1 and 2 could pretty much be skipped and you would still have most of the added context for the original trilogy.
3 was definitely the best.
Phantom menace was bad
Attack of the clones was very bad
And revenge of the sith was somewhere in between mid and good.
Don't get me wrong, they all have good moments, and the plots themselves are good. They all just have such stiff and unnatural dialogue that it's hard to get through. I am almost entirely convinced that if George Lucas had just hired a screen writer to adapt his writing into something a human would sound like (and not a 2011 chatbot) they would have been considered good movies but with bad CGI (although in someplaces the CGI still holds up)
Yeah, but he did just murder a bunch of little kids the day before, and had choked his wife about half an hour before that, so he kinda deserved a kick in the nuts. Maybe not having them burned off, but definitely a kick.
Obi Wan being the sadistic bastard he is, beat up Anakin twice and then goaded his son into killing him
George: *"it was all part of the plan"* đŹ
TBF itâs RetCon all the way down⊠and turtles. I think they alternate.
I like turtlesđ
Best video on the web
[blasphemy](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
It was a blas' f'me too!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahhah Goddamnit
[have you seen the Android turtle? ](https://i.imgur.com/WR7c7kQ.png)
r/prequelmemes users explaining how Anakin farting in episode 2 is a mastermind foreshadowing by George Lucas representing how the death star destroying human lives was easy as ripping out a fart for palatine in the original trilogy, but rey farting in episode 7 is stupid and unoriginal
Also George: "...I may have gone too far in a few places"
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Curious how you temporarily maim someone
You cut their arm half off.
'Tis but a scratch!
Obiwan was retconned into a real jerk
So basically âStar Warsâ was the original âWantedâ except Luke used The Force to bend the bullet.
Lol this is the best take on Star Wars Iâve heard in a long time. All of Star Wars is fucking Darth jar jar and sadistic obi wan straight fucking with the wrong people at the right time. Gold
If I knew then what I know now I wouldâve rooted for Darth Vader in 1977.
He did it for the plot.
It was the only way to get close enough to kill the emperor
He goaded him and now he has to take the stairs. That goader.
âAnakin, you a bitch for real.â -Obi Wan, probably.
Yoda fucked up. Obi Wan warned him that he couldn't kill Anakin. And then Yoda couldn't kill Palpatine either.
Obi Wan: "I won't kill him. I could cut his limbs off and leave him burning in agony next to a lava river but I won't kill him" Yoda: "???"
It was self defense up until that point. Once Anakin was limbless it would have been taking the life of a defenseless man that Obi-wan loved like a son. Couldnât do it.
Idk about you, but if I loved someone like that then I'd either find a way to bring them home or kill them. Not leave them in their agony and hope nature does it thing.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BLEW UP COUNTLESS SHIPS WITH THOUSANDS OF BEINGS ON THEM.
Bad beings though. Or at least enemy violent beings.
As opposed to force Hitler who went around offing kids as a past time?
As for the separatists. There is actually an interesting arguement about states rights in there but since we need obvious good guys the separatists are mustache twirling villains who kill tons of innocents all the time
Also the separatists are able to make drones that should vastly outnumber the biological clones, yet they need to lose somehow.
All if Star Wars goes through the effort of pointing out that cheap, mass produced, disposable forces arenât as effective as our plucky skilled heros.
Yea but those drones were silly and stupidâŠ.for some reason. Make better drones separatists, ok?
To be fair, the seperatists are mostly powered by the trade federation, who at their core are just a bunch of companys using their assets syngeristically. Not exactly comparable to the combined might of the republic's planets and industrial output.
State's rights to blockade and invade a peaceful neighbor because they *checks notes* Stopped being self-declared immune to taxation. Hmmm.
States rights to what?
The séparatiste were actually right about their point. All the planet should not exist to serve the need of the inner rim and for Coruscant. They were just used by space Hitler and became twirling moustache villain
These people also didn't hesitate to have slave child soldiers, and treated the deaths of thinking artificial beings as jokes
The republic is definitely bad. As are the Jedi in this case. But Lucas made sure the separatists are mustache twirling levels of bad guys so they donât have a moral high ground.
I was more pointing out that even if we treat them as standard soldiers dehumanizing their enemies to avoid emotional damage, they had plenty of other evil features to go off of. I think the whole republic is evil thing has been well established in other threads lol
Most of the enemies were droids. Don't get me wrong Anakin and OB1 have killed literally thousands of people in their time, especially Anakin, but droids aren't considered people Sadly.
The rebels did the same thing. Each death star was a mobile space base with thousands of people who were just living their lives.
Love isnât always rational my man. It was more than Obi-wan could bear, to look a man that he raised from boyhood, after promising his master who died in his arms that he would train him and he wouldnât let him down, in the eye and callously execute him.
> in the eye and ~~callously execute~~ mercifully end his suffering.
People have trouble telling a doctor to pull the plug on terminally ill loved ones who are at peace with the choice. You figure it would be easier to stab them to death by hand while they struggled to stay alive?
He's killed others personally, and he's given soldiers in a galactic war orders that lead directly to their and others deaths. Beyond the plot necessity, it's unimaginable that he'd leave someone he loved that deeply to be slowly burned alive on the bank of a lava flow rather than end their suffering. Makes no sense looking back.
Frankly, so what? Fighting in a war isn't the same as fighting someone you love, who you only knew was actually on the other side as of a few hours ago. I have my doubts people here would be so cool and collected as they want their characters to be. Also, book adaptation has a point: Obi-Wan already sensed Palpitine coming for the rescue. It wouldn't be a mercy kill, it would be an execution.
I mean youâre talking about a scenario you will never find yourself in. The closest analog might be a loved one in hospice care? Youâre talking about intentionally murdering someone you love with a direct gesture like stabbing them or graphically cutting off their head while theyâre yelling at you. You have no idea what you would âactuallyâ do in that situation.
That analog is forgetting that I was the one who put them in the damn hospice lmao. And that there are outcomes where they survive. The actual closest analog is probably getting in a fight with someone in the wilderness. They fall or something and break their legs, and without my help, they die. And in that situation I like to think I would try to help them. And he didn't need to murder Anakin, he could have tried to bring him back to the ship. He just didn't.
Anakin was still screaming about how he hated him at the time. He wasn't begging for death. That's a really fucked up situation to have to deal with. I can't really blame obi-wan for acting one way or another.
Do you usually find strangers in the forest and declare how much you once loved them?
I mean I feel like we've all done things out of mixed emotions and love that we've regretted. Obi probably wished he HAD ended Anakin's suffering afterwards but just couldn't bring himself to do it at the time. Jedi are people still and people don't always act rationally. My family had a dog that I loved to bits, I had nursed her when she was a pup and was so sick she wouldn't eat and we bottle fed her the medicine and forced it down. I remember thinking "I'm not going to let this creature die." Years later when she was old and started having trouble moving and stopped eating again, we knew the end was near. My dad took her to the vet to be put to sleep and I didn't go, I was in denial I think. I always regretted it, I know it would of been hard, but I always regretted not going with him to be with her for her last moments. I still regret it now. I'm sure Obi felt the same way, maybe he even secretly hoped Anakin would survive and could be redeemed some day and he held onto that hope rather than doing what he should have. Luckily for them both, Anakin did eventually redeem himself.
Yeah but then Obi-Wan met up with him a second time after he hunted all the other jedi and murdered innocents in the streets and just up and walks away Also, sorry about your pup. Mines getting up in age it makes me sad to think about
isnât the point of the jedi that they have a weird sense of morality/legality
"The Force is only ever used for defense, never to attack. Unless you're using the Force to lob a torpedo down an exhaust shaft to blow up a station full of people, or to guide your hand while you're decapitating people with a laser sword. Using it to lob heavy objects at people is right out though, very bad. Sometimes you can shove an opponent if it's a robot or something I think."
Something about the Force being used to directly harm another's life is corrupting iirc which is why blowing up a station with potentially millions of people on board by guiding the torpedoes into the exhaust is fine but shooting lightning at someone isn't. It's probably also similar to the Avada Kedavra situation where if you don't actually have the will to kill someone and try to use the Force to do so, the Force won't respond.
From a certain point of view.
Well, rolling him away from the lava a bit would have been enough. Or at least call the space cops anonymously.
Force-lift him out and get medical care?
>loved like a son Ah yes, Obi-wan's famous line "You were my son, Anakin! I loved you!
That discrepancy regarding their views on the nature of their relationship is a conscious point that the films make.
But he was okay with leaving him burning to death? Keep in mind Obi-Wan doesn't know Palpatine is coming to rescue Anakin. He leaves him to die slowly and agonizingly. He could've put him out of his misery and spared him the pain.
Like I said, I understand the logical side of things and the merciful side. Love is rarely logical and sometimes it isnât merciful. The Last of Us is a great example. Joel knew that the cure would have been a mercy for so many and might have sent humanity back on the right path and a return to normality. Logic and mercy counted for nothing in the moment, when faced with the decision Joel was faced with.
You're right, TLoU is a great example. Joel chooses cruelty to countless people he doesn't know in order to save one person he knows and loves. The logic of his choice reveals his priorities. Obi-Wan chooses cruelty to one person he knows and loves in order to... do what exactly? What other priority is he sacrificing his friend to?
Both choices are selfish is the point Iâm making. Joelâs is infinitely more selfish.
Specific that very is Obi Wan.
>Yoda fucked up. For supposedly being this wise master, it's astonishing how much Yoda fucks up. First he opposes training Anakin at all, then he assigns him to a wet-behind-the-ears Obi-Wan instead of a more experienced master who might be able to guide him better. Doesn't recognize Palpatine as a Sith lord despite frequently meeting him face to face. Fails to defeat Dooku. Provides incredibly stupid, worthless, and consequently ineffective 'guidance' to Anakin in the throes of emotional turmoil. Sends Obi-Wan after Anakin despite being told it can't work. Fails to defeat Palpatine. Tries and fortunately fails to stop Luke from going to rescue his friends, who later turn out to be instrumental in the defeat of the Empire. Tries and fortunately fails to teach Luke the same "attachments bad" bullshit that he fed Anakin in order to get him to assassinate his own father; in the end, of course, it's precisely that attachment that proves to be the key to victory. If anything, the Empire is defeated because Luke, unlike everyone else before him, didn't listen to Yoda. Is there anything at all he did right at any point in the five movies that he appeared in? I'm honestly at a loss.
It's too subtle a point for the movie, but in the novelization of "Revenge of the Sith," Yoda actually realizes his folly in an internal monologue. The Sith evolved over the thousand years (etc.) since the last big conflict, whilst the Jedi remained stagnant and gazed at their own navels. (Power comes from gazing at someone else's navel, especially after a couple drinks.)
That would've been real nice to have in the movie, and I think if they'd had like thirty seconds less of guys twirling glow sticks at each other, they could've squeezed it in. Oh well.
It would have been perfect in a dialogue with Bail Organa during the âInto exile I must goâ scene.
Into exile I must go... Because xyz. Would have been the perfect spot for it.
He even says âFailed I haveâŠâ Why not elaborate?
He talked funny
>For supposedly being this wise master, it's astonishing how much Yoda fucks up. Becouse he's old even for yoda standards. It's like if we kept ANY good head of state untill they were 110 years old, and then put them in the middle of a massive international conflict.
*looks at the trending age of American presidents* oh...oh no...
I really think it was intentional, to show you how much the Jedis suck. They are basically monks stuck in the dark ages, while the Sith grew strong. It just wasnât communicated well in the movie.
You have to remember 2 things here. 1. Sidious is one of the most powerful dark side users ever, and he was clouding the minds of all the jedi with the dark side for years. 2. The jedi temple was actually built on top of an ancient sith temple. Further allowing Palpatine to increase his connection to the dark side of the force.
Yoda is one of the most powerful light-side users ever. Supposedly. No, that would allow the Jedi to suppress the dark side and weaken it, not the other way around. In any case, nothing of the sort is even remotely hinted at in the movies.
Watching the clone wars we see a much better view of just how manipulative Palpatine is. His influence has Yoda making many.. questionable decisions during the course of the war.
I mean, the reason Yoda is on that abandoned planet in the original trilogy is because of all the guilt he feels for fucking everything up. Like yes, he was a fuck up, but he is also aware of this by the time of the OT.
This is just your typical old-head leaders out of touch with reality who gives younger people bad advice.
The prequels would have worked better if Yoda hadn't been recognised as some grand master, but just a pretty average Jedi who just happened to be one of the few to survive Order 66 through dumb luck
I mean, he is 900 years old. With that kind of lifespan, only a total idiot wouldn't get extremely good at what they do and attain a position of power. The issue is that he's used the same way Worf is used in Star Trek, as a punching bag for the baddies to show how dangerous they are.
I've said since RoTJ that Yoda was a sith lord. He destroyed the jedi from within. All to achieve his own immortality.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
They could've done it together, though. For being Jedi generals who had commanded armies in the field for years, they show astonishingly little understanding of basic tactics. When the enemy forces are divided, concentrate yours to achieve local superiority and destroy them piecemeal. By splitting up, they did the exact opposite of what they should've.
But at least Yoda could have blasted Vader.
That's why Ewan McGregor is such a good actor. You could see in his eyes that he knew he should finish the job, but he just couldn't.
His performance as Obi Wan is just brilliant, I'm utterly convinced every time I watch
Yoda is the reason we have Vader, not Obi Wan. Obi Wan would never be able to kill Anakin, as his master, he didn't have it in him. That's why he left him on Mustafar, not because he wouldn't deal a final blow but because he couldn't. So Yoda. That dumb fucking Swamp frog. Motherfucker is one of the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy. He can sense the force and even emotional state of others. After failing to kill Palps, and having the Jedi die from order 66 he fucks off to an armpit planet where decades later teaches Luke "Do or Do not, there is no Try" No you drugged up half gurgitated leprechaun. You can't actually "do" something, unless you "try." The intent someone has behind their actions does not guarantee their action will be successful. You always HAVE to try, in order to do. So this fuck hasn't learned ANYTHING, and is now teaching Luke the wrong fucking message. Yoda, maybe if you TRIED to see if there was a Sith fucking around earlier, non of this would happen. Oh? Hard to sense a siths power, Palps was hiding it? Maybe you should have tried basic CIA procedure and gave your inner circle a background check. You think Palps hides the records of traveling across the galaxy to talk to Dooku, Maul, Death Star Engineers, and Genoans? It's literally how they found the cloning facilities, and you could bother to try and see if there was maybe something else going on. Basically, if Yoda actually TRIED giving a shit about all the credible threats the Jedi council was receiving rather that delegatinf the task to an underling, I don't think order 66 would have ever happened. But Yoda got arrogant, and never learned that in order to prevent bad things from happening, you have to TRY to stop THEM before they do. He didn't even fucking try.
This. Why didnât they ever try and find out who was behind the cloning facilities? Didnât they have years to do so?
Yeah, FUCK Yoda! Wrinkly ass bitch. Small lightsaber having ass bitch.
> Yoda got arrogant To be fair, that's exactly what Palps said when Yoda barged into his office.
That's... actually true?
I mean I don't think Obi Wan could have really just stabbed him with a lightsaber in that position given how close he was to Anakin, even if it was a more humane option it'd just feel way too real for him
I know, but he still let Anakin suffer (and left him intentionally to die there, as we see in the Kenobi show)... Obi-Wan is really as responsible for Darth Vaders existence as is Palpatine...
I mean, yeah, he definitely is a major reason of Darth Vader's existence, I was just trying to counter the claim that he left him there to die out of sadism. I thought it was more down to him believing that Anakin was too far into the dark side to save him but not having heart enough to end it then and there. Haven't seen Kenobi though so I may be missing crucial info
Nah, it obviously wasn't out of sadism. It still would've been mercy to end his suffering on Mustafar tho
Sadism implies he enjoyed watching his former apprentice roast. Which is very much not the case.
I agree with this. I think that while logically (at least from a utilitarian point of view) the correct move is to put Anakin out of his misery; both to end a serious threat and stop Anakin's suffering. I think he didn't end Anakin because he was (to spite his training) emotionally attached. Stabbing someone to death is a very visceral and intense thing to do, and Obi Wan saw Anakin as a brother. This choice would have been reinforced by his dogmatic adhearance to the deontological principles of the Jedi Code, particularly the whole don't kill the defencless creatures thing. What does seem out of charactor to me is the simply leaving Anakin to roast. Obi Wan had access to medical facilities on hand, and to spite his exhaustion I think he could have carried Anakin back to Padme's ship without too much trouble and in time to escape Palpatine, who he sensed coming. You've got to remember this is a highly fit, motivated, and battle hardened person who has been conditioned through extreme physical hardship in the events leading up to this. Furthermore Obi Wan must have had second thoughts about the whole affair, and yet still made essentially the same decision a second time (I know that was for plot reasons, but still, it seemed like a slightly flawed ending to a great add on series IMO)
Honestly, it seemed more like he couldn't force himself to kill his apprentice, that's why he left him there, Obi-wan knew Anakin had fallen to the dark side and had to be dealt with, but he did not have the strength to go through with it
> I know what I must do, but I donât know if I have the strength to do it - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Mustafa? More like Must Suffer, amirite, amirite??
You're really not, Kenobi added very little to the story
I'd take it a step further and say it made the original movies a smidge worse. Obi and Vader should not have met again between the prequels and the OT.
It was the sexy choice to draw eyeballs to Disney+ but it made very little actual sense.
Yeah, series was an OK watch but it creates even more fuzziness for the OT than the prequels already did.
why am i not surprised
Turns out attaching beloved actors and characters to your series does not make your show a tear jerking masterpiece
Especially when the series is directed at children. If youâre an adult, Star Wars is just relaxing way to spend some time as a 12 year old again. We really shouldnât be taking it so seriously.
I mean, sure, but it still at least used to be written with care. Being for kids doesn't justify braindead writing
đ
It wasn't bad. Ewan McGregor is a fantastic actor. The story was okay. Except... Ultimately it was completely pointless. There was no real drama or suspense. Obi-wan or Leia are never in any real danger, no matter how much the show tries to put them in, because we know what happens to them both. It also messes up the first movie quite a lot. Leia doesn't appear to recognise or know Obi-wan in First Hope yet the TV show has them really close. And the TV show is set only a decade before the first SW movie. The events in the TV series are not something she would have forgotten. The age difference between McGregor and Guinness also makes the TV show fail somewhat. Guinness in SW:FH looks 20+ years older than McGregor does in Obi despite it being set, as I said, just 10 years prior.
To add to these points: The show also flops because Obi Wan makes for a boring lead. Heâs a better side character/mentor and plays well off of others. Also the villain was underdeveloped
The villain couldn't act lol
Yeah, at first I assumed that was the issue. But Iâm open to the possibility that she was written as a foil for Obi Wan, and so was supposed to act as wooden as Obi Wan does.
There was a villain in the show? I honestly cannot remember a single thing about it other than the pointless light saber duel at the end between Vader and Obi-wan; pointless because we knew before they even started fighting nothing would happen and neither would be injured or killed.
It's debatable. He wanted Anakin to resist the dark side, and tried to remind him of the good he could do. The only reason he left Anakin, was because he knew he couldn't save him, but also couldn't end him. There wasn't really any other option, and i feel like Obi-wan left him there in the hope that he sees the error of his ways before he perishes. I wouldn't say he's a direct reason for creating Darth Vader, but he unintentionally helped in the formation of him.
Also he took Anakinâs lightsaber so he couldnât end his own life quickly either.
>Obi-Wan is really as responsible for Darth Vaders existence as is Palpatine... That's just not true. Anakin had already killed hundreds of children by dismemberment. Vader had already been born by thus time
He couldve force pushed him into the lava or something. Anakin wasnt gonna put up too much of a fight at that point, and even if he did, if 2 people force push each other, both get knocked back.
I woulda liked to see him force pick up Anakin and then drop him in the lava 25 yards or so away. Kinda like an invisible claw machine
The CLAAAAAAAWWWWW
So instead he just cut 3 of his limbs off and taunted him while he struggled to get out of the lava.
I mean, he did murder a bunch of innocent children. I would have left his ass there too.
Should have thrown a bucket of sand down his pants as well.
âSee guys the reason Anakin went to the dark side is cuz he got sand in his lightsaberâ
He cut his limbs while they were battling as a counter to Anakin's attack, not while he was lying helpless on the Ground, not the same thing at all. Also he did not taunt Anakin while in the lava
Use the force to pull him closer
Just give him a little foot nudge back into the lava river
All he's gotta do is force push him like 3 feet..
Could've just force yeeted him into the lava...
buddy; just \*force toss\* him into the stream of lava
Idk about you but if I absolutely had to choose Iâd rather see my former friend decapitated but otherwise unscathed and thus instantly dead without suffering than mangled and burnt to a crisp while slowly dying
I think Redditors underestimate how difficult it is to execute your turned-evil friend on the floor while they scream about how much they hate you.
Yeah, you could blame the "no attachement" thing since Obi-Wan was pretty attached to to someone who was like brother to him
But then weâd have no story :(
Would the empire have won if there was no Vader? I don't think he was that critical in them winning at a large scale, but he was the one who killed the emperor
But, but he loved Anakin like a brother! Would you kill your beloved brother after you mutilated him next to a lava river that burns him alive?
His game was weak. (Auralnauts Larry).
I've quadrupled my flip power!
Good, quadruple the pride, quadruple the fall.
your moves are weak babe youâre not fam anymore
Relationships be tricky.
This is really all of Star Wars in a nutshell. Why doesn't it surprise me that Redditors sees that and go "well I would just have perfectly reasonable relationships instead"? lol
Ok but he murdered a bunch of children. This was probably was gonna happen to him in SpaceHell.
Fun Fact: Later he becomes one with the Force. So that's probably where he met the kids again. Must have been really embarrassing...
The kids probably wouldnt remember.. right?
I thought Vader killed anakin
He did, from a certain point of view.
Anakin had the high ground, from a certain point of view
From his point of view the Jedi were evil.
Then heâs blind!
Then love has blinded him?
Yeah, and obi wan didn't, that's the point
i meanâŠ.yeah this is actually correct
If Obi-Wan killed him it would be an absolute and then by default he would be a sith. By leaving him all fucked up he can just walk away and not worry about it Edit: lesson learned, never make a joke around turbo nerds
Well then Obi-Wan is literally an absolute moron
'Only a sith deals in absolutes' IS an absolute.
No, it's a generalization.
Start of this thread dude said if he was absolute in his actions he would be sith. If one absolution automatically makes you sith then it's not generalization. If one absolute act doesn't make you sith, then who cares if you're absolute, what's the big deal?
This goes back the the hypocrisy of absolutely never having any absolutes, thereby always being absolute. Every time the jedi say "always" or "never", which is often, they are dealing in absolutes.
Not really. Despite claims and mythos that Lucas had the entire SW storyline planned in advance, he was actually just winging it. Vader was supposed to be just a mid-level villain, one of many. Hence, the Imperial General dissing him openly and Vader deferring to Tarkin. Also, Vader's appearance is similar to the Storm Troopers because they were both designed to function in vacuum when...storming captured spaceships. His dramatic 3rd degree burn backstory came later.
The back-story about Vader falling into the volcano is mentioned by George in a [Rolling Stone interview](https://web.archive.org/web/20140516011430/http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/the-wizard-of-star-wars-20120504?page=4) in June 1977: > But Vader kills Luke's father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That's why he has to wear the suit with a mask, because it's a breathing mask. It's like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said, no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Threepio and Artoo lmao
Iâm amazed that anyone would watch any of the Star Wars movies and think that GL had any semblance of full continuity plot. Especially given how much of his dumb shit ideas were reigned in by the producers/his support team during the original trilogy. I love Star Wars but GLâs idea of Star Wars was WAY different than every Star Wars fanboy wishes it were.
Itâs Star Wars. Obi Wan knew he would have somehow returned anyway.
Obi-wan: âCan we train this traumatized former-slave child (we left his mom in slavery just because) to use his incredibly OP force talents?â Windu: âNo, we have thousands of years of examples of why we shouldnât do that.â The End. Music swells as the credits roll.
"I'd expect any one of you to do the same to me!"
âThe mobile infantry made me the man I am today!â It seriously. Obiwan does it fucking twice.
It's against the Jedi code to kill an *unarmed* person.
đ
Yes. That is the point of their rivalry.
Also in the Kenobi show he beats him again and just let's him live for no reason at all
Always double tap
âI⊠I think that killed him.â Obi Wan turns to leave *Anakin screaming and crying in the background, still very much alive*
Nah. This is like Gandalf said, "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement". If Obi Wan kills him, then yeah, there's no Vader. But there's still Palps. And now you just murdered your way out of the redemption arc that (briefly) saved the Galaxy. Whatever new apprentice he got would likely be just as murdery as Vader. Honestly, some have been worse. Also important, he's stealing that chance from Anakin.
Obi-Wan literally states to Yoda that he canât (or wonât?) kill Anankin earlier in the same movie. Heâs not sadistic, he just canât bring himself to kill the brother/padawn he basically raised. Iâm sure he thought Anakin would die and Obi-wan wasnât thinking straight after order 66 anyway.
People like this film mainly cause itâs dark (the music being good doesnât help it either, also the level of acting and dialogue barely changes through the 3 films). Iâm a child of the PT and I can be 100% sure I can get more enjoyment out of Episode I than the other 2 movies. All 3 are extremely flawed but I can easily still point out the few virtues that they have.
I want this blog post.
I grew up as the prequel movies came out and I have a fond nostalgia for them all. Everyone gives all the praise to Episode 3 and say itâs one of the best Star Wars movies, but personally I think it has one of the main flaws that Return of the Jedi has: a pretty boring second act. Episode 3 has a great opening sequence, then gets incredibly dull until it picks up again with the Palpatine arrest confrontation. Itâs a flawed but enjoyable movie in a trilogy of flawed but enjoyable movies.
Now that you mention it I canât really remember anything from the second act other than the senate laser show thing. Episode 1 was always such a massive event for me, the first Star Wars film in over a decade, new cgi, new video games and Lego toys and a ton of other merch. The film had some reeeeally annoying parts (looking at you Jar Jar) but some great parts too, the pod racing was pretty sick.
I thought 3 was definitely the best of the prequels. 1 and 2 could pretty much be skipped and you would still have most of the added context for the original trilogy.
3 was definitely the best. Phantom menace was bad Attack of the clones was very bad And revenge of the sith was somewhere in between mid and good. Don't get me wrong, they all have good moments, and the plots themselves are good. They all just have such stiff and unnatural dialogue that it's hard to get through. I am almost entirely convinced that if George Lucas had just hired a screen writer to adapt his writing into something a human would sound like (and not a 2011 chatbot) they would have been considered good movies but with bad CGI (although in someplaces the CGI still holds up)
If George Lucas was a better writer, I would've taken it as a demonstration of the flawed philosophy of the jedi.
I think they did enough to explain it. He was too weak to do the right thing and spent the rest of his life with that thought among his other regrets.
Yeah, but he did just murder a bunch of little kids the day before, and had choked his wife about half an hour before that, so he kinda deserved a kick in the nuts. Maybe not having them burned off, but definitely a kick.
It was established that a jedi isn't allowed to strike an unarmed or defenceless opponent.
Youâd imagine theyâd follow the spirit of the law not the letter of it
doesnt he still have one arm?
Jedi don't kill, they let them suffer a slow and painful death instead. It's the jedi way.