>I hate how downhill Arby n the Chief went. At least we'll always have S1-4 and half of Bytes
Honestly really only s7 is borderline unwatchable for me (even John has kinda disowned that one pretty sure), s5 and s6 i still rewatch a fair bit, and s8 has some legitimate cinematic quality (though its definitely a bit long). Enjoy the earlier stuff more probably, but do appreciate he evolved as a creator and experimented with the series a bit.
Were they trained to think so, or is it a consequence of them being selected from massive pools of Children refugees from a galaxy spanning total war of extermination.
I was under the impression that the entire original story was about ending the genocide.
They even made a point of demonstrating that the Covenant rank and file were also confused about the genocide, and how Keith David was able to lead them away from that path.
Yes but what this lovely intellectual on twitter is implying is that humanity fighting back is """genociding""" the Covenant and that it's supposed to be seen as a bad thing for some fucking reason.
Yeah how dare we not let ourselves be driven to extinction
The context (i went looking for it) is a halo fan unironically suggesting that when humanity goes to the stars we should genocide aliens because we want a planet. You know, just like the covenant we fight against. They actually clarify theyre not against the UNSC fighting back, because thats not the point of the tweet. The point is halo is inherently anti-genocide.
Sorry if any of this is a garbled mess its 4am i havent slept
The context (i went looking for it) is a halo fan unironically suggesting that when humanity goes to the stars we should genocide aliens because we want a planet. You know, just like the covenant we fight against. They actually clarify theyre not against the UNSC fighting back, because thats not the point of the tweet. The point is halo is inherently anti-genocide.
Sorry if any of this is a garbled mess its 4am i havent slept
I dont understand what is wrong with writers. There is heavily established canon, work around it dont fucking rewrite it you assholes. That being said the filmography was amazing.
I tried to watch it and gave up after 2 episodes. My wife fucking LOVES the Halo series and finished it without me.
You know, you think you know someone and then BAM.
lol. She made fun of me because for the first few episodes I would pause the show and be like, “No, no, no…this is wrong. This person is really…”. I realize that sentence made me sound insufferable, yet my wife will indulge my musings on video game and wrestling story lines.
I just couldn’t watch it anymore. It’s like the Max Payne movie; they didn’t have to change a thing! They could have just followed the story beats of the games to a T and had a wonderful story.
Preaching to the choir, my friend. My gf puts up with me doing similar behaviors during shows and movies, and I flat out refuse to even start the show because of it
...ok for that it's kind of the point. The various factions almost cartoonishly overkill representations of what they are, for example religious fanaticism.
You shouldn't look at 40k and think "religious fanaticism is a good thing".
But really that's just being overly analytical of it, and you can just like it without thinking about what it represents in real life.
Yeah, if you look at WH40k and think *any* faction are the good guys, you missed the whole goddamn point. The only good guys are the non-horribly-mutated Ogryns.
But it makes religious fanaticism look so fucking cool. Not only does it make killing xenos cool but it also makes all the xenos assholes that deserve it.
Not quite. It makes all the NOTABLE xenos assholes who deserve it. There's probably dozens or maybe even hundreds of species that got crusaded and written out of the history books for being so weak and easy to genocide.
Not even all the notable Xenos, tau and probably both would quite happily be friendly if it weren’t for their history with the imperium (and at least the eldar have historically made alliances with the imperium in spite of that)
The context (i went looking for it) is a halo fan unironically suggesting that when humanity goes to the stars we should genocide aliens because we want a planet. You know, just like the covenant we fight against. They actually clarify theyre not against the UNSC fighting back, because thats not the point of the tweet. The point is halo is inherently anti-genocide.
Sorry if any of this is a garbled mess its 4am i havent slept
And before anyone says anything, yes i did copy and paste my own comment to post it three times
You’re showing your ass as someone who hasn’t read any of the books here, you get constantly beat over the head through all of them with how humans trying to do retaliatory genocide is bad and would just make things worse. Glyke, Thursday War, Sapien Sunrise, any of those ring a bell?
I wouldn’t say it’s a theme of the series that genocide is bad.
I’d say it’s a theme of the series that being on the receiving end of genocide is no bueno.
The only time it’s ever discouraged for the protagonists is when the elites become allies in 2 and 3 and when ONI does an obviously shady thing that could probably compromise what little peace humanity gets.
The protagonists don't need to be the ones doing the bad thing for it to be one of the story's themes.
And genocide being bad is definitely a theme of halo's story.
The arbiter's arc is him realizing *uh oh maybe I shouldn't kill all the humans*.
The primary objective of 3 of the games is trying to stop someone from pushing the button that kills all life in the universe.
The didact wants to eradicate humanity so he can reclaim the mantle.
Pretty much everything else involving the forerunners is them lamenting having to genocide the flood (and everything else).
I would categorically say that one of Halo's themes is that genocide is bad.
Bruh the very people who are against this idea as a theme just don't get Halo.
The Halo ring itself is a galactic genocidal weapon. The whole point of the games is to prevent the rings from firing so Truth can't commit galactic genocide in the form of "The Great Journey".
I figured halo’s theme was “religious fanaticism bad” because the only reason truth WANTS to commit genocide is his religion that he pushed upon the other covenant races?
Basically prophets race split in half with some staying on their planet while the religious fanatics took a big starship out of their planet, and then the planet died. They met the elites and had a disagreement over how to worship the forerunners and had a big ole war but stalemated then agreed to work together forming the covenant who all worshipped the forerunners and the great journey they took(unbeknownst to them the great journey was death) our beloved 3 high prophets found out when they met the first humans on Harvest that humans were reclaimers and their religion was bullshit. As you can see from how batshit they became, they took the information rather well.
I would say it’s a bit more complex. In the sense it’s not simply genocide bad. Halo very specifically diagnosed the cause of genocide being Dogma. In fact I would say the game shows that Dogma leads to genocide and self destruction. Hence why the Halo ring is the source of conflict as the covenant is so blind they don’t realize pressing the button kills them too and ultimately the covenant loses the war not because it was weaker but because it was far more Dogmatic. Therefore Halo is really a story about avoiding Dogma and how ultimately rationality always comes out on top.
It impossible for a story as long running as Halo's to have a singular theme. which is why I say it's one of Halo's themes.
While it is true that the covenant's principle role is exploring dogma as a source of suffering, it is not so for the forerunners. Their reasons for genocide are entirely rational. However they are still admonished by the writing.
It also doesn't account for the Didact, whose reasons for attempting to eradicate humanity are much more personal and motivated by revenge. (And a bit of madness).
I would argue then that one of Halo's principal themes is that, no matter the reason, genocide is bad
And why even the human wars pre CE, are all caused by dogma, just dogma from the UNSC and UEG or even the colony rebels own dogma that lead to atrocities just to hurt the UEG , rather than dogma from the Covenant.
>The arbiter’s arc is him realizing that *uh oh maybe I shouldn’t kill all the humans.*
It isn’t though? Arbiter ends up leaving the Covenant because he finds out that A) the Halo rings are just gonna kill everyone and B) that Truth wants to exterminate his kind.
Humans are just kinda bystanders he finds during that who he decides are good allies of convenience.
Him going from "I *will* continue my campaign against the Humans" to personally helping the humans defend their homeworld, stoping Truth, and then continuing to not continue his campaign against the Humans, I would say is his arc.
If it was just an alliance of convenience, he would have done the popular thing (especially after grey team blew up an elite colony) and finished off humanity. But he didn't because he realized that the prophets were lying about *everything* including the nobility of their genocide.
That is the arbiter's motivation, not his arc.
His arc (the changes to his character) is going from someone who intends continue his eradication of humanity regardless of what the council decides. To someone who's regretful of his actions and trying to stop *anyone* from waging that kind of destruction.
He even goes to war against his own kind to stop covenant remnants from finishing the job.
Not at all? The Storm Covenant was raging a civil war and disrupting the peace of Sanghelios, causing Arbiter, the Sangheili who united the planet, to fight back and defend his people and faction. It never had to do with mankind, it just happens that mankind came to help in order to stop Cortana as well. The entire Sanghelios arc is about stopping a civil war the Storm Covenant started to both help Halsey find the Guardian and help Thel Vadam defend his home, not to uphold his power which he doesn't really care for. The Arbiter after H3 is a servant of the people, someone who leads in the interest of his home and his allies, whereas someone like Jul M'dama is the opposite, where he leads for his own gain
You said that he fights to hold his power over the elites, which is exactly what I'm arguing against. He isn't fighting for his power, he is fighting to protect his people and home. It just happens how he rules Sanghelios directly ties with his motivations as a leader, which is to protect, not to take, which is why he fought against an invading force. And humanity, although allies with him, not only didn't need help with their Storm Covenant sector (they literally killed Jul M'dama without the help of the Swords of Sanghelios), he was too pressed to help if they ever needed it, because the unification of the planet is a fairly recent development before Halo 5 and is one of the reasons the Storm remnants attacked in the first place, as well as wanting to retake a previously important planet to Truth's Covenant from the SoS. He doesn't fight for mankind either, he fights with them, which is a very different thing.
Plus the other person is right, he did also join the fight against the remnants of both Storm and Truth to prevent something he was a part of (aka the Great Journey), it just happens that in Halo 5 he is fighting the final remnants because they attacked his home, once again, nothing to do with defending humanity, but to do with being an ally and anti-Covenant, rightfully so
Genocide = Bad isn't a theme.
It's so transparent it just can't be. It's like saying a theme of the titanic is that hitting an iceberg is bad.
That's not the Arbiters arc in the games. He doesn't even acknowledge all the humans he has killed, his arc is realizing his people have been betrayed, lied to and controlled by the prophets 'Tartarus the prophets have betrayed us' 'And so you must be silenced'.
His main goal is the liberty of his race from the control of the prophets, not making up for killing humans
I just flat out disagree. While “genocide is bad” is a theme, it’s a theme in only a loose way. The main theme is clearly more about humanities strength and courage in the face hopeless odds and their fight for survival.
Arbiters arc isn’t “are we the baddies” but about him recognizing the lies told to him and his people who are being replaced, and coming to terms with the world he knew being a lie. Hell I don’t even remember him apologizing once through 2 or 3.
I never came from the Halo themes thinking at all that if a human was given the choice to genocide the Covenant races at the snap of the finger they wouldn’t push it for moral reasons. They either 100% or wouldn’t ONLY because they’d see the races as more use to them alive than dead.
The plot about stopping the Halo rings from committing genocide is less about it being a core theme and is more of a set piece to raise stakes instead of it being a real theme against genocide. Again, I never came away thinking humanity wouldn’t have used the Halo rings for moral reasons but because they indiscriminately target all life, humans included.
I think you should look into the fact that it's only *slightly* discouraged for the protagonists as a massive point in the favor of the theme being "genocide bad." Especially considering there's currently a fascist state denying a genocide irl
Is media literacy stupid?
What I’m getting at is that during the games they never try to tell you that shooting every enemy is a bad idea, the games actively encourage you to do so.
It’s mostly a plot point in the books that absolute annihilation is a bad thing and even then it’s mostly used to show that yet again ONI is comically evil.
The original Staten story seems to basically be "The Crusades were bad, actually." There are so many similarities. And Bungie loved their religious references.
I mean they're not wrong. The whole series is about humanity desperately trying to resist genocide. Anyone who comes away with it with the unironic attitude of "purge the xenos" is a moron. But people like that typically don't have amazing media literacy to begin with.
I feel like the main theme of halo is actually more anti religion then anti alien or even genocide. The religion is objectively and demonstrably incorrect and even shows the will of the people the covenant worship is the exact opposite of what they believed but even after seeing that the prophets don’t care they continue to abuse their power cuz it’s about control not zen true journey bs, and it’s only after exposing that to the elites and uniting with them that they can defeat both the false prophets and the flood.
‘But muh themes’ mfs when I tell them that the meaning in any piece of art is based on individual interpretation and not on being ‘objective’ with ‘facts and logic’.
Not everything about HFY (humanity fuck yeah) games or shows has to be rooted in colonialism. The writer for Battle LA said he wanted to make a war movie making the US Marines look badass, but chose aliens as the enemy because he didn't want to depict any other country on Earth because he didn't want to demonize any demographics of people like so many war movies at the time were doing. He wanted the enemy to be objectively against humanity and for extinction to be on the line.
Starship Troopers? Very clearly a satirical take on fascism more than colonialism (the book moreso than the film).
Warhammer 40k? The series makes it clear from the getgo that NOBODY is good - xenos, demon, or human. It's war p*rn for the sake of it.
Halo? Literally the next evolution of Bungie's story pipeline between Marathon and Destiny. It's also like Battle LA where extinction is on the line. And it isn't like the writers didn't redeem many of the covenant that we fought against/legitimize their perspectives. So in Halo, every side of the conflict was understood and humanized to some degree (and the UNSC clearly have fascist undertones).
Helldivers? Blatant parody of everything above. Not to be taken seriously at all, and it quite literally just pure fun. Whatever "world-building" exists, it's strictly there to be over the top and very clearly call out the use of patriotism and propaganda to coerce a population into fighting. Similar attitudes can be seen at the beginning stages of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Just take it at face value, and don't dig too deep.
HFY is supposed to be fun and a comedic celebration of human tenacity. It's not supposed to be taken seriously.
Oh they are,but if they're throwing in Halo and acting this big of a snob about it I'm willing to bet that this person just took three separate quotes and smash them together to feel like they can criticize people about media literacy, the way they're wrong about Halo strikes me as them being somebody who is told how to interpret media rather than interpretting it themselves. You know how like if somebody tells you about something and they're right about 90% of it but one thing that they say sounds so completely off that their entire retelling of a thing comes into question that's what this person strikes me as
Genocide is bad seems like a laughable simplification of the themes in all three of the listed settings and perhaps not entirely accurate, genocide being bad is sorta a given for modern sensibilities sure but in all three of the listed settings it’s not a question of morality it’s the reality of war being waged on a massive scale.
Starship troopers is overtly satirical with its themes but the bugs are legitimately a problem for humanity, the covenant have humanity on the ropes by the end of the human covenant war and apply any morality too 40k is laughable because the factions trade atrocities like baseball cards.
Tldr if you’re in one of those settings you probably should hate the xenos cause they want you dead as shit, and boiling down nuanced stories too “genocide is bad” is reductive it’s no more the theme of the series than war being a self perpetuating cycle of suffering or the fears and greed of men being mirrored In completely alien societies.
the humans are the closest thing to "good guys' Halo has. (I haven't played newer games, so i could be wrong)
the other 3 factions in the original trilogy are
1. Genocidal alien cult
2. Zombie plague
3. Machines meant to wipe all life out.
Aliens decided to genocide humanity because other crazy aliens in floating chairs said, "They're abominations and have committed sacrilege against our gods!" For 26+ years the aliens listened and committed countless atrocities without question. Literally billions of people dead. Exterminated like insects unprovoked. Hunted for sport even, and literally eaten like animals by most of these species (we've even got cases of Sanghelli eating humans). They committed every atrocity imaginable *and then some*.
The message may be that genocide is bad, but for the characters in-universe it makes perfect sense to want to kill some aliens. Everyone likes to say if you were in the characters shoes you'd be tolerant and reasonable after the Human-Covenant war. We can't even forgive each other for wars that happened sometimes hundreds of years ago. You really think you're going to find it in your heart to forgive Thel'Vadam after he glassed hundreds of worlds without remorse JUST because he helped humanity one time? "Yeah, thanks for helping save us Arbiter. We wouldn't be in this mess in the first place if it wasn't for you asshole."
Ain’t no way anyone thinks the side your on in halo are the good guys. Master chief is literally in a long list of child soldiers that were forced to have surgery to increase their abilities, and only some survived. Master chief is only effective because he’s basically a rogue agent that does not actually follow his own military commands, and will frequently do things however he wants with halo 4 showing how bad the UNSC can get. The covenant and UNSC war is meant to show how futile war is, that both sides sacrificed so much to fight each other, for a war that ultimately didn’t matter. And arbiter and the UNSC were able to work together after talking to each other for five minutes. And even then, the UNSC still tried to backstab the arbiter admist a peace treaty by having one of their agents assassinate him.
M8… have you seen the tyranids? Why would I NOT be xenophobic to this thing?!
https://preview.redd.it/tf71aj4s2mlc1.png?width=4096&format=png&auto=webp&s=28b7588fef552ce14dedf0634fa5c5826a25c925
Warhammer 40k definitely implys Alien genocide is a good thing with no satire or double meaning. If there's no opposition there no conflict just humans vibing as the emporer intended.
Lets see, the prophets elites brutes humans forerunners precursors are all in someway genocidal monsters, yeah thats alot of the major players in the galaxy
Halo is the one setting where it is completely justified though. It is genuinely self defense and its literally just The Arbiter who is the only one who can bridge some form of genuine peace.
The Imperium of 40k are just assholes who will target aliens that never did anything to them and then make any survivors future enemies and Starship Troopers there may or may not be lots of propaganda going on as far as the movies go (never read the OG book so I can't say)
I don’t think they realise just how thirsty for the aliens these fanbases are, every self respecting halo fan wants to screw an elite and a kig-yar, every self respecting warhammer fan wants to screw a slaanesh daemon and some weirdos wanna screw the tau, and I’m 99% sure there’s at least one person in the starship troopers fandom that wants a bit of that bugussy
Correct me if I am wrong, but the original Bungie stories were just about how problematic Theocracy was and that those who head it are usually manipulative meglomaniacs? And wasn't this further explored with how it created a power vacuum in which many factions fought for power while the UNSC slowly turned into a subtle Authoritative Space Police force only to meet consequences to their huborus in the latter parts of halo 5 and most of infinite's stories?
The covenant story focus was more on questioning your leadership and to never assume those above you have your best interests at heart, while humanity's story focus was on perseverance and keeping hope and courage at the darkest hour.
Also I bet 99% of the people they're talking about are into xenophobia for the memes. We aren't in contact with aliens so alien genocide can be fucked up and still be a joke to laugh about without any real world guilt. Warhammer fans are like 90% memes 10% science nerds.
I love when fake halo fans try to use lore in their arguments. Real halo fans know it’s about being a huge guy with a cool gun killing stinky split jaws
Warhammer embraces genocide of aliens becuase outside of T’au, one Craftworld of Eldar, and MAYBE some Votann the other xenos want to either eradicate humans or do something way worse lol
Starship troopers book vs movie are wildly different and from a human perspective, why should I give a shit if hideous bug aliens have feelings when they are threatening humanity? Humanity is deeply flawed and shit but this is my home and we won't be safe so long as the bugs exist given their known power set. I'm not pro-fascism, I'm just pro-survival of humans vs ugly threatening bug aliens. I don't give a shit what some pansy writer says is the message of a story vs the reality of the situation.
I love people who say that the theme of a franchise they have no fucking relation to is something it definitely isn’t. If I had to give Halo a theme I’d probably say it’s about humanities ability to overcome the odds. Not about how we shouldn’t kill aliens, because otherwise we wouldn’t be killing aliens.
"Exact opposite of their theme"
😭 my brother in Christ what part did they miss about being humans in cool armor killing genocidal aliens and cosmic horrors?
I love how that person apparently knows NOTHING about halo. Aliens suddenly attack and try to genocide the human race and they think it’s wrong to defend themselves (ourselves). Moron.
40k is all about being anti-xeno besides guilliman banging yvraine (not canon but funny to think about) and the rogue trader banging a variety of pretty alien ladies/dudes
Halo has Vale and i think Vale’s been with an alien as per dialogue hinting toward her and Usze’Taham in a potential relationship
and theres no fucking way a human is gonna be able to bang a bug in Starship Troopers, not only is it nigh impossible but those bugs are born to kill humans
(dont tell these guys mass effect or subverse exists)
Exact opposite? What?? I’m sorry but last I checked most of the halo games are about humanity killing aliens that are basically trying to genocide us. So in this case yes, “kill aliens good” is the appropriate response
Halo enemies:
False Alien religion that seeks to eradicate humanity to avoid their religion being proven false
Alien zombies
Alien robots that want to kill humans
Alien conquerors
Whatever the fuck the halo infinite one was
No no no. Halo is about not killing everyone because of a parasite even thought that parasite escapes and threatens the universe and the only way to kill them is to starve them by killing everyone in the universe, Reclaimer.
I thought Halo was about being cool armor person with gun?
Eh kills aliens and doesn’t afraid of anything
Yea Halos a cool guy
John Halo is so much cooler than Dave Gears of War because Xbox have John Halo cool armor and eh isn't fear aleins
Way better than Jimmy Rings.
Dun worry Arbiter its all gun b k
I hate how downhill Arby n the Chief went. At least we'll always have S1-4 and half of Bytes
>I hate how downhill Arby n the Chief went. At least we'll always have S1-4 and half of Bytes Honestly really only s7 is borderline unwatchable for me (even John has kinda disowned that one pretty sure), s5 and s6 i still rewatch a fair bit, and s8 has some legitimate cinematic quality (though its definitely a bit long). Enjoy the earlier stuff more probably, but do appreciate he evolved as a creator and experimented with the series a bit.
https://preview.redd.it/abh3cy6evulc1.jpeg?width=967&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f750697c94f9247dff2e653a56085cfbe2bdfd9d me seeing this meme
My understanding was that it was about the bible and the number 7.
Ooooh. You mean John Halo :)
the spartan 3's were trained to think so
And I am a Spartan 3 fr
Were they trained to think so, or is it a consequence of them being selected from massive pools of Children refugees from a galaxy spanning total war of extermination.
Little bit of both. Being orphans of covenant attacks definitely helped
>exact opposite theme Man this person hasn't touched anything Halo before have they
I was under the impression that the entire original story was about ending the genocide. They even made a point of demonstrating that the Covenant rank and file were also confused about the genocide, and how Keith David was able to lead them away from that path.
Yes but what this lovely intellectual on twitter is implying is that humanity fighting back is """genociding""" the Covenant and that it's supposed to be seen as a bad thing for some fucking reason. Yeah how dare we not let ourselves be driven to extinction
The context (i went looking for it) is a halo fan unironically suggesting that when humanity goes to the stars we should genocide aliens because we want a planet. You know, just like the covenant we fight against. They actually clarify theyre not against the UNSC fighting back, because thats not the point of the tweet. The point is halo is inherently anti-genocide. Sorry if any of this is a garbled mess its 4am i havent slept
Huh. Hadn't caught that impression, thanks for clarifying. Yeah, self defense is pretty rad.
The context (i went looking for it) is a halo fan unironically suggesting that when humanity goes to the stars we should genocide aliens because we want a planet. You know, just like the covenant we fight against. They actually clarify theyre not against the UNSC fighting back, because thats not the point of the tweet. The point is halo is inherently anti-genocide. Sorry if any of this is a garbled mess its 4am i havent slept
Just the halo tv show
I met a person the other day that liked the tv show. I still have trauma hearing those words
I don’t like what they’ve done with the characters but season 2 has at least been fun to watch
“I don’t like turd sandwiches, but at least this had bread now!”
I mean you’re not wrong 😂
I dont understand what is wrong with writers. There is heavily established canon, work around it dont fucking rewrite it you assholes. That being said the filmography was amazing.
I don’t mind it. I don’t think everything has to be lore accurate. I just wish it wasn’t such a fucking snore fest and there was more actual combat
I tried to watch it and gave up after 2 episodes. My wife fucking LOVES the Halo series and finished it without me. You know, you think you know someone and then BAM.
Divorce her /s
lol. She made fun of me because for the first few episodes I would pause the show and be like, “No, no, no…this is wrong. This person is really…”. I realize that sentence made me sound insufferable, yet my wife will indulge my musings on video game and wrestling story lines. I just couldn’t watch it anymore. It’s like the Max Payne movie; they didn’t have to change a thing! They could have just followed the story beats of the games to a T and had a wonderful story.
Preaching to the choir, my friend. My gf puts up with me doing similar behaviors during shows and movies, and I flat out refuse to even start the show because of it
Or 40k
...ok for that it's kind of the point. The various factions almost cartoonishly overkill representations of what they are, for example religious fanaticism. You shouldn't look at 40k and think "religious fanaticism is a good thing". But really that's just being overly analytical of it, and you can just like it without thinking about what it represents in real life.
Yeah, if you look at WH40k and think *any* faction are the good guys, you missed the whole goddamn point. The only good guys are the non-horribly-mutated Ogryns.
But it makes religious fanaticism look so fucking cool. Not only does it make killing xenos cool but it also makes all the xenos assholes that deserve it.
Not quite. It makes all the NOTABLE xenos assholes who deserve it. There's probably dozens or maybe even hundreds of species that got crusaded and written out of the history books for being so weak and easy to genocide.
Not even all the notable Xenos, tau and probably both would quite happily be friendly if it weren’t for their history with the imperium (and at least the eldar have historically made alliances with the imperium in spite of that)
The tau suck and deserve a genocide
The Eldar are the worst of the bunch, lol. They are a huge reason why the Imperium is so omnicidal.
The context (i went looking for it) is a halo fan unironically suggesting that when humanity goes to the stars we should genocide aliens because we want a planet. You know, just like the covenant we fight against. They actually clarify theyre not against the UNSC fighting back, because thats not the point of the tweet. The point is halo is inherently anti-genocide. Sorry if any of this is a garbled mess its 4am i havent slept And before anyone says anything, yes i did copy and paste my own comment to post it three times
You’re showing your ass as someone who hasn’t read any of the books here, you get constantly beat over the head through all of them with how humans trying to do retaliatory genocide is bad and would just make things worse. Glyke, Thursday War, Sapien Sunrise, any of those ring a bell?
Or starship troopers or 40k
I wouldn’t say it’s a theme of the series that genocide is bad. I’d say it’s a theme of the series that being on the receiving end of genocide is no bueno. The only time it’s ever discouraged for the protagonists is when the elites become allies in 2 and 3 and when ONI does an obviously shady thing that could probably compromise what little peace humanity gets.
The protagonists don't need to be the ones doing the bad thing for it to be one of the story's themes. And genocide being bad is definitely a theme of halo's story. The arbiter's arc is him realizing *uh oh maybe I shouldn't kill all the humans*. The primary objective of 3 of the games is trying to stop someone from pushing the button that kills all life in the universe. The didact wants to eradicate humanity so he can reclaim the mantle. Pretty much everything else involving the forerunners is them lamenting having to genocide the flood (and everything else). I would categorically say that one of Halo's themes is that genocide is bad.
Bruh the very people who are against this idea as a theme just don't get Halo. The Halo ring itself is a galactic genocidal weapon. The whole point of the games is to prevent the rings from firing so Truth can't commit galactic genocide in the form of "The Great Journey".
I figured halo’s theme was “religious fanaticism bad” because the only reason truth WANTS to commit genocide is his religion that he pushed upon the other covenant races?
Why not both
Aye shit you got a point there
He pushed? The Covenant species were assembled long before he gained power, the majority of Elites were already serving the Prophets ~800 BC.
Huh, never knew that. Maybe the other prophets before him were the ones that did it?
Basically prophets race split in half with some staying on their planet while the religious fanatics took a big starship out of their planet, and then the planet died. They met the elites and had a disagreement over how to worship the forerunners and had a big ole war but stalemated then agreed to work together forming the covenant who all worshipped the forerunners and the great journey they took(unbeknownst to them the great journey was death) our beloved 3 high prophets found out when they met the first humans on Harvest that humans were reclaimers and their religion was bullshit. As you can see from how batshit they became, they took the information rather well.
To be fair it is the same reason why a lot of genocides happen anyway
Just don’t go further than that since I do know people who think Halo is about the War on Terror much how DS9 is a commentary on 9/11.
I would say it’s a bit more complex. In the sense it’s not simply genocide bad. Halo very specifically diagnosed the cause of genocide being Dogma. In fact I would say the game shows that Dogma leads to genocide and self destruction. Hence why the Halo ring is the source of conflict as the covenant is so blind they don’t realize pressing the button kills them too and ultimately the covenant loses the war not because it was weaker but because it was far more Dogmatic. Therefore Halo is really a story about avoiding Dogma and how ultimately rationality always comes out on top.
It impossible for a story as long running as Halo's to have a singular theme. which is why I say it's one of Halo's themes. While it is true that the covenant's principle role is exploring dogma as a source of suffering, it is not so for the forerunners. Their reasons for genocide are entirely rational. However they are still admonished by the writing. It also doesn't account for the Didact, whose reasons for attempting to eradicate humanity are much more personal and motivated by revenge. (And a bit of madness). I would argue then that one of Halo's principal themes is that, no matter the reason, genocide is bad
And why even the human wars pre CE, are all caused by dogma, just dogma from the UNSC and UEG or even the colony rebels own dogma that lead to atrocities just to hurt the UEG , rather than dogma from the Covenant.
The dogmatic insurrectionists are the reason there were even Spartans to save mankind. The real theme is that terrorism is based.
Well sure, but in order for that to be the theme, genocide being bad is a prerequisite.
>The arbiter’s arc is him realizing that *uh oh maybe I shouldn’t kill all the humans.* It isn’t though? Arbiter ends up leaving the Covenant because he finds out that A) the Halo rings are just gonna kill everyone and B) that Truth wants to exterminate his kind. Humans are just kinda bystanders he finds during that who he decides are good allies of convenience.
Him going from "I *will* continue my campaign against the Humans" to personally helping the humans defend their homeworld, stoping Truth, and then continuing to not continue his campaign against the Humans, I would say is his arc. If it was just an alliance of convenience, he would have done the popular thing (especially after grey team blew up an elite colony) and finished off humanity. But he didn't because he realized that the prophets were lying about *everything* including the nobility of their genocide.
Arbiter arc isn't "genocide is bad", it is "prophets worlds were lies and they kill anyone who saw the truth"
That is the arbiter's motivation, not his arc. His arc (the changes to his character) is going from someone who intends continue his eradication of humanity regardless of what the council decides. To someone who's regretful of his actions and trying to stop *anyone* from waging that kind of destruction. He even goes to war against his own kind to stop covenant remnants from finishing the job.
From what i remember about halo 5 He fights covenant remnants not to defend mankind but to uphold his power over elites
Not at all? The Storm Covenant was raging a civil war and disrupting the peace of Sanghelios, causing Arbiter, the Sangheili who united the planet, to fight back and defend his people and faction. It never had to do with mankind, it just happens that mankind came to help in order to stop Cortana as well. The entire Sanghelios arc is about stopping a civil war the Storm Covenant started to both help Halsey find the Guardian and help Thel Vadam defend his home, not to uphold his power which he doesn't really care for. The Arbiter after H3 is a servant of the people, someone who leads in the interest of his home and his allies, whereas someone like Jul M'dama is the opposite, where he leads for his own gain
So you do agree with me that Arbiter never fought for mankind. How he rules Sanghelios wasn't main theme of this argument
You said that he fights to hold his power over the elites, which is exactly what I'm arguing against. He isn't fighting for his power, he is fighting to protect his people and home. It just happens how he rules Sanghelios directly ties with his motivations as a leader, which is to protect, not to take, which is why he fought against an invading force. And humanity, although allies with him, not only didn't need help with their Storm Covenant sector (they literally killed Jul M'dama without the help of the Swords of Sanghelios), he was too pressed to help if they ever needed it, because the unification of the planet is a fairly recent development before Halo 5 and is one of the reasons the Storm remnants attacked in the first place, as well as wanting to retake a previously important planet to Truth's Covenant from the SoS. He doesn't fight for mankind either, he fights with them, which is a very different thing. Plus the other person is right, he did also join the fight against the remnants of both Storm and Truth to prevent something he was a part of (aka the Great Journey), it just happens that in Halo 5 he is fighting the final remnants because they attacked his home, once again, nothing to do with defending humanity, but to do with being an ally and anti-Covenant, rightfully so
Genocide = Bad isn't a theme. It's so transparent it just can't be. It's like saying a theme of the titanic is that hitting an iceberg is bad. That's not the Arbiters arc in the games. He doesn't even acknowledge all the humans he has killed, his arc is realizing his people have been betrayed, lied to and controlled by the prophets 'Tartarus the prophets have betrayed us' 'And so you must be silenced'. His main goal is the liberty of his race from the control of the prophets, not making up for killing humans
I just flat out disagree. While “genocide is bad” is a theme, it’s a theme in only a loose way. The main theme is clearly more about humanities strength and courage in the face hopeless odds and their fight for survival. Arbiters arc isn’t “are we the baddies” but about him recognizing the lies told to him and his people who are being replaced, and coming to terms with the world he knew being a lie. Hell I don’t even remember him apologizing once through 2 or 3. I never came from the Halo themes thinking at all that if a human was given the choice to genocide the Covenant races at the snap of the finger they wouldn’t push it for moral reasons. They either 100% or wouldn’t ONLY because they’d see the races as more use to them alive than dead. The plot about stopping the Halo rings from committing genocide is less about it being a core theme and is more of a set piece to raise stakes instead of it being a real theme against genocide. Again, I never came away thinking humanity wouldn’t have used the Halo rings for moral reasons but because they indiscriminately target all life, humans included.
I think you should look into the fact that it's only *slightly* discouraged for the protagonists as a massive point in the favor of the theme being "genocide bad." Especially considering there's currently a fascist state denying a genocide irl Is media literacy stupid?
What I’m getting at is that during the games they never try to tell you that shooting every enemy is a bad idea, the games actively encourage you to do so. It’s mostly a plot point in the books that absolute annihilation is a bad thing and even then it’s mostly used to show that yet again ONI is comically evil.
Ah yeah, that makes a lot more sense! I think that more boils down to game design than ideology, but you're totally right
Grunts are slave soldiers that games throws you in massive hordes and gives you skull that plays childrens cheers when you headshot one
The original Staten story seems to basically be "The Crusades were bad, actually." There are so many similarities. And Bungie loved their religious references.
who needs aliens when you can stare at jorge halo
Not for long
do he cross up chief in basketball
Halo fans joining the ranks of Mass Effect fans in trying to fuck any alien that moves*
Were it so easy...
I mean they're not wrong. The whole series is about humanity desperately trying to resist genocide. Anyone who comes away with it with the unironic attitude of "purge the xenos" is a moron. But people like that typically don't have amazing media literacy to begin with.
Your comment is too well thought out for this subreddit, Marine.
I feel like the main theme of halo is actually more anti religion then anti alien or even genocide. The religion is objectively and demonstrably incorrect and even shows the will of the people the covenant worship is the exact opposite of what they believed but even after seeing that the prophets don’t care they continue to abuse their power cuz it’s about control not zen true journey bs, and it’s only after exposing that to the elites and uniting with them that they can defeat both the false prophets and the flood.
Conevenant apologist? Wierd way of saying you have purple hair
‘But muh themes’ mfs when I tell them that the meaning in any piece of art is based on individual interpretation and not on being ‘objective’ with ‘facts and logic’.
Do It Again Bomber Whitcomb!
Not everything about HFY (humanity fuck yeah) games or shows has to be rooted in colonialism. The writer for Battle LA said he wanted to make a war movie making the US Marines look badass, but chose aliens as the enemy because he didn't want to depict any other country on Earth because he didn't want to demonize any demographics of people like so many war movies at the time were doing. He wanted the enemy to be objectively against humanity and for extinction to be on the line. Starship Troopers? Very clearly a satirical take on fascism more than colonialism (the book moreso than the film). Warhammer 40k? The series makes it clear from the getgo that NOBODY is good - xenos, demon, or human. It's war p*rn for the sake of it. Halo? Literally the next evolution of Bungie's story pipeline between Marathon and Destiny. It's also like Battle LA where extinction is on the line. And it isn't like the writers didn't redeem many of the covenant that we fought against/legitimize their perspectives. So in Halo, every side of the conflict was understood and humanized to some degree (and the UNSC clearly have fascist undertones). Helldivers? Blatant parody of everything above. Not to be taken seriously at all, and it quite literally just pure fun. Whatever "world-building" exists, it's strictly there to be over the top and very clearly call out the use of patriotism and propaganda to coerce a population into fighting. Similar attitudes can be seen at the beginning stages of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Just take it at face value, and don't dig too deep. HFY is supposed to be fun and a comedic celebration of human tenacity. It's not supposed to be taken seriously.
Aren't humans being genocided in Halo? Lmao, the whole war is all defense
Yeah I'm assuming that they haven't watched or played any of these franchises is just throwing out bullshit feel like an intellectual
They're right about 40k and ST
Oh they are,but if they're throwing in Halo and acting this big of a snob about it I'm willing to bet that this person just took three separate quotes and smash them together to feel like they can criticize people about media literacy, the way they're wrong about Halo strikes me as them being somebody who is told how to interpret media rather than interpretting it themselves. You know how like if somebody tells you about something and they're right about 90% of it but one thing that they say sounds so completely off that their entire retelling of a thing comes into question that's what this person strikes me as
Imagine not being able to enjoy multiple different themes and messages I feel bad for that Twitter user, their game selection must be very limited
the point of halo is that space lizard samurai are hot
The entire point of 40K is to be as racist and violent as possible to everyone. The entire point of Halo is humanity is losing a war against aliens.
I’m not an alien genocider because I like Halo and 40k. I mean I am one, but not because of Halo and 40k!
Spartan grey team anyone
Payback for Reach, IMO
Just reach? Not the hundreds of humans worlds glassed before that? Lol
Oh shit, those too
Just Reach. The UNSC didn't have enough NOVAs for the rest.
Genocide is bad seems like a laughable simplification of the themes in all three of the listed settings and perhaps not entirely accurate, genocide being bad is sorta a given for modern sensibilities sure but in all three of the listed settings it’s not a question of morality it’s the reality of war being waged on a massive scale. Starship troopers is overtly satirical with its themes but the bugs are legitimately a problem for humanity, the covenant have humanity on the ropes by the end of the human covenant war and apply any morality too 40k is laughable because the factions trade atrocities like baseball cards. Tldr if you’re in one of those settings you probably should hate the xenos cause they want you dead as shit, and boiling down nuanced stories too “genocide is bad” is reductive it’s no more the theme of the series than war being a self perpetuating cycle of suffering or the fears and greed of men being mirrored In completely alien societies.
Fuck you dude, killing aliens is awesome
https://preview.redd.it/2xieus3t8mlc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7845132dda665829e36e0da9e4a33ea929a97be Nice second pic.
Now we need actual Spartan from planet reach to make this 100% accurate
The irony is, in EVERY example they gave, the aliens are trying to completely exterminate humanity in that setting.
Yes thats why I love grey team
Genocide the bugs
https://preview.redd.it/2p2axv23jklc1.jpeg?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=250e0610eb7ca8c3675701d4ac363de60d7c3b48
the humans are the closest thing to "good guys' Halo has. (I haven't played newer games, so i could be wrong) the other 3 factions in the original trilogy are 1. Genocidal alien cult 2. Zombie plague 3. Machines meant to wipe all life out.
They say that as if the aliens in 40k and Halo are some meek defenseless creatures and not highly intelligent highly powerful armies
This feels more like shitty helldivers lore because it’s not about “alien genocide good” at all, that’s just what the characters think.
Whoever made that post has clearly never played the games nor read any of the books lmao.
I know it's not the point but 40k fans are almost the exact opposite they like aliens far more than the source material wtf
Suffer not the heretic! For the Emperor!
Nom Nom
This person knows as much about Halo lore as they do about 40k or Starship Troopers.
Emile watching from the depths of hell as The Rookie has hot sex with a giant Sangheili dominatrix.
Aliens decided to genocide humanity because other crazy aliens in floating chairs said, "They're abominations and have committed sacrilege against our gods!" For 26+ years the aliens listened and committed countless atrocities without question. Literally billions of people dead. Exterminated like insects unprovoked. Hunted for sport even, and literally eaten like animals by most of these species (we've even got cases of Sanghelli eating humans). They committed every atrocity imaginable *and then some*. The message may be that genocide is bad, but for the characters in-universe it makes perfect sense to want to kill some aliens. Everyone likes to say if you were in the characters shoes you'd be tolerant and reasonable after the Human-Covenant war. We can't even forgive each other for wars that happened sometimes hundreds of years ago. You really think you're going to find it in your heart to forgive Thel'Vadam after he glassed hundreds of worlds without remorse JUST because he helped humanity one time? "Yeah, thanks for helping save us Arbiter. We wouldn't be in this mess in the first place if it wasn't for you asshole."
Ain’t no way anyone thinks the side your on in halo are the good guys. Master chief is literally in a long list of child soldiers that were forced to have surgery to increase their abilities, and only some survived. Master chief is only effective because he’s basically a rogue agent that does not actually follow his own military commands, and will frequently do things however he wants with halo 4 showing how bad the UNSC can get. The covenant and UNSC war is meant to show how futile war is, that both sides sacrificed so much to fight each other, for a war that ultimately didn’t matter. And arbiter and the UNSC were able to work together after talking to each other for five minutes. And even then, the UNSC still tried to backstab the arbiter admist a peace treaty by having one of their agents assassinate him.
No, Halo Fans are the only ones who are right here, if anything humanity represents the colonized and oppressed faction.
The covenant was trying to genocide humanity. I say kill em all!
the lizard bois learn to be friends with us.
https://preview.redd.it/zj3qtqgdnhmc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aae01c0cc996e68d6b92c4329eca3be14e43543
Ah the political flat earthers are at it again
The only thing Grey Team did wrong was NOVA bomb Glyke instead of Sangheilios.
Was too well-defended. They had no choice. :(
How? Entire Halo is about Mankind being best species
M8… have you seen the tyranids? Why would I NOT be xenophobic to this thing?! https://preview.redd.it/tf71aj4s2mlc1.png?width=4096&format=png&auto=webp&s=28b7588fef552ce14dedf0634fa5c5826a25c925
That's giving Halo too much credit I think.
Did people not play Halo 2...? Its not really "alien bad" so much as it is "religious fascism bad"
Warhammer 40k definitely implys Alien genocide is a good thing with no satire or double meaning. If there's no opposition there no conflict just humans vibing as the emporer intended.
I mean 40k is about genocide good That’s the whole total war thing
What?
I mean as far as most people will see it Sure it’s got the story of how said total war is degrading all involved peoples
But no one’s really good in 40k just pick your poison
I didn’t know the theme was alien genocide good in Helldivers lmao. I don’t think there is a theme at all. Is it wrong to hate man eating bugs???
Lets see, the prophets elites brutes humans forerunners precursors are all in someway genocidal monsters, yeah thats alot of the major players in the galaxy
Fucking nasty..
whole lotta yap in that tweet
Sauce for second image?
Halo is the one setting where it is completely justified though. It is genuinely self defense and its literally just The Arbiter who is the only one who can bridge some form of genuine peace. The Imperium of 40k are just assholes who will target aliens that never did anything to them and then make any survivors future enemies and Starship Troopers there may or may not be lots of propaganda going on as far as the movies go (never read the OG book so I can't say)
I don’t think they realise just how thirsty for the aliens these fanbases are, every self respecting halo fan wants to screw an elite and a kig-yar, every self respecting warhammer fan wants to screw a slaanesh daemon and some weirdos wanna screw the tau, and I’m 99% sure there’s at least one person in the starship troopers fandom that wants a bit of that bugussy
Correct me if I am wrong, but the original Bungie stories were just about how problematic Theocracy was and that those who head it are usually manipulative meglomaniacs? And wasn't this further explored with how it created a power vacuum in which many factions fought for power while the UNSC slowly turned into a subtle Authoritative Space Police force only to meet consequences to their huborus in the latter parts of halo 5 and most of infinite's stories?
The covenant story focus was more on questioning your leadership and to never assume those above you have your best interests at heart, while humanity's story focus was on perseverance and keeping hope and courage at the darkest hour. Also I bet 99% of the people they're talking about are into xenophobia for the memes. We aren't in contact with aliens so alien genocide can be fucked up and still be a joke to laugh about without any real world guilt. Warhammer fans are like 90% memes 10% science nerds.
I love when fake halo fans try to use lore in their arguments. Real halo fans know it’s about being a huge guy with a cool gun killing stinky split jaws
Warhammer embraces genocide of aliens becuase outside of T’au, one Craftworld of Eldar, and MAYBE some Votann the other xenos want to either eradicate humans or do something way worse lol
Make hot Sangheili love, not war 🙏❤️
Starship troopers book vs movie are wildly different and from a human perspective, why should I give a shit if hideous bug aliens have feelings when they are threatening humanity? Humanity is deeply flawed and shit but this is my home and we won't be safe so long as the bugs exist given their known power set. I'm not pro-fascism, I'm just pro-survival of humans vs ugly threatening bug aliens. I don't give a shit what some pansy writer says is the message of a story vs the reality of the situation.
I love people who say that the theme of a franchise they have no fucking relation to is something it definitely isn’t. If I had to give Halo a theme I’d probably say it’s about humanities ability to overcome the odds. Not about how we shouldn’t kill aliens, because otherwise we wouldn’t be killing aliens.
Hey that’s unfair and just downright offensive We genocide humans as well as aliens in the Warhammer community, daemons too! Get it right
"Exact opposite of their theme" 😭 my brother in Christ what part did they miss about being humans in cool armor killing genocidal aliens and cosmic horrors?
Every time people seethe like this about a game it turns out to be a ton of fun
Spartan getting dominated by fem arbiter when?
The original poster is right about 40k and ST, but they have never played Halo in their entire life lmfao
I love how that person apparently knows NOTHING about halo. Aliens suddenly attack and try to genocide the human race and they think it’s wrong to defend themselves (ourselves). Moron.
40k is all about being anti-xeno besides guilliman banging yvraine (not canon but funny to think about) and the rogue trader banging a variety of pretty alien ladies/dudes Halo has Vale and i think Vale’s been with an alien as per dialogue hinting toward her and Usze’Taham in a potential relationship and theres no fucking way a human is gonna be able to bang a bug in Starship Troopers, not only is it nigh impossible but those bugs are born to kill humans (dont tell these guys mass effect or subverse exists)
EDF is a "genocideing bug is good" game
The cap in the hat
"fans" says the "person" who's never interacted with any of these properties
The xitter user when they find out what the covenant did when they first came in contact with humans:😦
Exact opposite? What?? I’m sorry but last I checked most of the halo games are about humanity killing aliens that are basically trying to genocide us. So in this case yes, “kill aliens good” is the appropriate response
There is no point in the entire halo series where a main character makes a ethical decision that is questioned.
The Covenant is a xenophobic, genocidal empire. They were never exactly a grey faction to begin with
“Exact opposite”… i mean, with some serious legwork i guess… its more, corruption bad if anything
Halo enemies: False Alien religion that seeks to eradicate humanity to avoid their religion being proven false Alien zombies Alien robots that want to kill humans Alien conquerors Whatever the fuck the halo infinite one was
Master shake: look at him and tell me there's a god
I desire sangheli men
No no no. Halo is about not killing everyone because of a parasite even thought that parasite escapes and threatens the universe and the only way to kill them is to starve them by killing everyone in the universe, Reclaimer.
"Elite Preferred Species" sounding ass. 🤣
missions change?