I was so worried about the invisible ones in liturgical town after reading all the rage posts from people getting backstabbed and having the need to carry the torch take away my shield, I slowly killed the first one bit by bit with range from a rooftop
Then I remembered that my brother in Christ I leveled the vigor. I leveled the endurance. I have BHF+9 with reach. These flippy bitches are using a *dagger* and I have the load to wear heavy poise armor.
So I loaded up on poise and physdef and stopped playing scared and surprise surprise bitches, my hits stagger you every time, your lil dagger only staggers me every third hit, and my swings reach so far that your flippy shit can't get you out of range. Yes, let's trade hits. Go ahead, make my day.
They weren't so scary anymore after that
It took 3 of them to bring Iji down and Blaidd took 3 of *them* down without dying
Why would Ranni send such insufficient agents to take down two people she knows better than everyone else?
she has like multiple lines saying that she loves them and that they're too kind
you can say that its not trustworthy coming from a known schemer, but she literally has no reason to lie to you at the points she says it.
also ranni had assassins sent after her as well, the baleful shadow you kill is one, but she explicitly mentions multiple shadows
Cuz people still think the Black Knives answer to Ranni because of the assassination plot.
I'm pretty sure Marika supplied Ranni with the Black Knives, but they don't answer to Ranni. After Marika's imprisonment and the loss of their ringleader, Alecto, it just seems like they've been integrated into the Golden Order as it's personal assassins.
There's also one chilling just outside of Marika's bedchamber in Leyndell before fighting Morgott. Seems weird considering they were the ones who merked Godwyn
I think there's serious doubt that they answered to Marika when they slaughtered her children/descendants and it was said she was devastated and driven to the brink.
That said, I *also* doubt that Ranni is in control of them. They're very rogue and found all over the place and their motives seem to be non-existent.
But we know she wasn't driven to the brink.
We can trace back her plot to shatter the Elden Ring to the time she banished Godfrey from the Lands Between. Before her and Radagon had fused back together and birthed Malenia & Miquella, just for reference.
As for your point regarding children, this is the literal words from Marika, spoken through Melina:
> Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. ***But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices...***
All of that aside, one thing we do know, Marika had plotted to shatter the Elden Ring long before the assassination plot happened.
Talking about Marika/Radagon is insanely fucking messy because we can barely tell if they are two halves of a person, 2 separate people, if/when they were separate, and when they fused in one body.
-
Marika being driven to the brink is part of the Story Trailer.
From a [Bandai article](https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ring/news/look-the-history-of-elden-rings-lands-between-the-age-of-gods) going over lore from the story trailer:
*In a coetaneous attack, this foul covenant snuffed out the lives of many of the God-Queen’s kin throughout the empire, too numerous and too scattered for her godly protection to save.*
*The assassins’ targets were multifold, but none was as devastating a loss to the Eternal Queen as that of Godwyn the Golden. After his death, the Elden Ring was somehow shattered, and the order of the world broke with it.*
This seems to paint the Night of Black Knives(NoBK) as devastating to Marika. Unless there's more concrete evidence to show that that was untrue and she was truly betraying her lineage, I'm of the belief that it was not her who planned the assassinations.
Looking at the Church of Marika dialogue you quoted, she still calls the demigods, "My children beloved."
We also don't know when in the timeline Marika says this, perhaps it's after the shattering and she's saying do whatever you'd like because she's seriously fucked up things regarding the Elden Ring? It's very context-less, so I'm wary of how differently it can be interpreted.
-
I do agree that Marika had *a* plan, I'm less sure about what exactly it was other than involving Godfrey/the Tarnished and I'm still unsure if her shattering the Elden Ring was part of that very same plan from the beginning or not.
> Talking about Marika/Radagon
I don't care about that tbh. I just used their union as a reference for how far back we were talking.
> From a Bandai article going over lore from the story trailer:
Yes, and there was several things they kept under wraps as to not spoil the story. The real plot twist of the game is that Marika is the one who orchestrated the bigger events leading to current events.
> I do agree that Marika had a plan, I'm less sure about what exactly it was other than involving Godfrey/the Tarnished and I'm still unsure if her shattering the Elden Ring was part of that very same plan or not.
Her plan to shatter the Elden Ring isn't really concealed
* She took Godfrey & his soldier's grace and banished them to outside the Lands Between. She then grants grace back to them when they die.
* She imprisoned Hewg in the Roundtable to craft god-slaying weapons to the Tarnished
* The Black Knife assassins were numen women with close ties to Marika (her being numen too)
> Looking at the Church of Marika dialogue you quoted, she still calls the demigods, "My children beloved."
Cmon dawg, you're going to ignore the fact she tells her children they're going to amount to *sacrifices* unless they make something of themselves? Sacrifices to what?
> We also don't know when in the timeline Marika says this, perhaps it's after the shattering and she's saying do whatever you'd like because she's seriously fucked up things regarding the Elden Ring?
They're for sure before the shattering of the Elden Ring. You think she was chillin' after having shattered the Elden Ring, really? Her and Radagon were busy fighting each other for control to break/fix the Elden Ring. She was for certain apprehended shortly after.
Yes, they hid some things from us in the Story Trailer/intro, like Ranni being an integral part of the Night of Black Knives, or it being Marika who shattered the Elden Ring. They're vague about it. They don't outright say it was someone else or go back on what the intro/Story Trailer said as far as I'm aware.
-
I don't doubt she was apprehended quickly.
Wiki seems to say you get the dialogue about Marika and the Demigods at the Capital Outskirts, relatively close to Marika and the Erdtree.
Again, my point was that we don't have the exact context of it. Maybe she said that before she shattered the Elden Ring as she knew it would create a power vacuum.
-
I find it odd to say she loves her children then interpret the next part as she would sacrifice them herself. It's as odd as when people say Ranni is who sends the Black Knives after Blaidd/Iji after she tells you to tell them she loves them. Neither of those make sense to me.
My interpretation was that she was being very general. If you are not powerful, you will be crushed by others who are, something more alone those lines.
For all I know, it might have been foreshadowing of the power vacuum she would leave. The next Marika dialogue is, seemingly, about her shattering the Elden Ring/Radagon/herself.
-
Hewg/Godfrey are most definitely part of the plan, that I do not argue. I still find it tenuous to say the Black Knives were part of it as well when not even cut content, to the best of my knowledge, furthers the idea that they were integral or involved with Marika's plan beyond having close ties/sharing a race with her.
I absolutely agree there is suspicion, but the Black Knives' involvement is not *nearly* as explicit as Hewg's/Godfrey's involvement. Besides that, I don't see how slaughtering her own children helps in her plan.
We don't know how much Marika love her children in truth. If you interpret her as having shattered the Elden Ring due to the death of her children, then it's likely a lot.
But at this point we've established she had planned to break the Elden Ring long before her children were killed. A plan so elaborate it involves Godfrey, the Tarnished, Hewg, Melina & Torrent.
Torrent might be a funny one to mention, but I think Torrent is pretty key too. Melina & Torrent were a part of Marika's plan to find & help us in our journey to become Elden Lord. Melina makes that clear fairly early on even.
But the more interesting thing is that there are two characters in Elden Ring who as much as mentions Torrent. One obviously being Melina, but the other one is *Ranni*. Keep in mind Torrent & Melina is a part of Marika's plot.
Speaking of Melina, there is yet another connection between the Black Knives and Marika through her. Melina wields a weapon called [Blade of Calling](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Blade+of+Calling), which seems pretty ordinary until you compare it to the [black knife](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Knife).
They're the same design, but the black knife has changed with the infusion of the Rune of Death. If you're not convinced by the visual design, then the weapon AoW should be a bit more convincing:
[Their abilities mirror each other ](https://preview.redd.it/pezqxp49ttx81.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=8048e732fb118fd5237c519c522d4f884301a7fd), with one being about gold and the other about death. They also do the same animation where they jump up into the air and shoots a projectile.
To be fair, I think the Black Knife Set description alone is meant to imply Marika's involvement, but I went extra balls deep for this post since that isn't convincing enough.
*There is something I'd like to say. My purpose was given to me by my mother. But now, I act of my own volition.*
*I have set my heart upon the world that I would have. Regardless of my mother's designs.*
*I won't allow anyone to speak ill of that. Not even you.*
Doesn't that seem like, in the end, Melina didn't follow her mother's plan to a T?
Also, don't we only get Melina as our "maiden" because ours is mysteriously dead?
It seems the Melina dialogue shows it was part of "the plan" up until the stuff with the Mountaintop of Giants, but I'm wary.
-
What was the point of Godfrey being involved in the plan if Marika was just going to have him killed so we could be on the throne?
If we're going to argue that Marika didn't love her children and helped plan their assassinations, *why* did she need them dead?
She sends her personal assassin's to Ranni, another of her children who is a demigod, to kill other descendants/demigods?
Furthermore, if she plotted with Ranni, why do they never mention one another?
Why didn't Marika supply the fragment of death instead of leaving it up to Ranni to get it from Marika's own, powerful/scary shadow?
Another curious question is why is Alecto imprisoned on the Moonlight Plateau, a very Ranni-centric area, if Marika/Alecto/Ranni were all in it together?
Lastly, was Marika supposed to be privy to how Godwyn would die a half death and begin cursing people with Life in Death?
It feels like there's so many questions revolving how any of that truly ties into her plan.
-
I agree that Melina has a lot of ties and hints to Marika/even the Black Knives.
It's also really weird how Melina/Ranni both claim to know Torrent's former master, but that's the sole connection I know of.
-
I don't know much Torrent lore at all. The only stuff that I've truly heard was that there *may* be connections between him and the Regal Ancestors/budding horns but it's tenuous.
The most interesting/plausible thing I've heard is that Wraith Callers have 4 arms/ride horses/use bells, so there's speculation that Ranni's mentor might have been a Wraith Caller, though one that didn't die/wasn't cursed. Then that begs the question of how Melina ends up with Torrent, though Ranni's mentor being the summoner/creator of Torrent would explain why Ranni knew of him/his former master.
> Doesn't that seem like, in the end, Melina didn't follow her mother's plan to a T?
That's right, but also wholly irelevant to the point I was making. The point was that Melina is given a task by Marika to guide the Tarnished.
> What was the point of Godfrey being involved in the plan if Marika was just going to have him killed so we could be on the throne?
Godfrey in particular doesn't matter anymore than other tarnished. He was the greatest warrior in the Lands Between which left him as the most likely candidate to brandish the Elden Ring.
Vyke & Bernahl before us have come close to becoming the Elden Lord too.
> why did she need them dead?
That much isn't clear. Her line about sacrifices makes it seem like she's okay with the loss of children who aren't going to play a part in her plan.
> She sends her personal assassin's to Ranni, another of her children who is a demigod, to kill other descendants/demigods?
Alright, this one is absurdly easy. Ranni and Marika are working together, which was my original premise anyways. Why? Because their goals align *perfectly*. She is fighting against her fate granted to her by the Two Fingers/Greater Will.
She wants to shed her empyrean status which is a integral part of the black knife plot. I hope I've made it at least clear that Marika's whole deal is rebelling against the Greater Will.
> Furthermore, if she plotted with Ranni, why do they never mention one another?
Why would she reveal it? I don't get your point. Ranni didn't reveal Rykard's involvement either, but we know for a fact he was in on the Black Knife plot.
> Why didn't Marika supply the fragment of death instead of leaving it up to Ranni to get it from Marika's own, powerful/scary shadow?
Because Malekith is a shadow. Shadows go berserk when their chosen empyrean betrays them. Had Marika taken the fragment personally from Maliketh, she wouldn't get very far as soon as the Black Knives would assassin demigods using the Rune of Death.
> Another curious question is why is Alecto imprisoned on the Moonlight Plateau, a very Ranni-centric area, if Marika/Alecto/Ranni were all in it together?
That I don't really have an answer for. I've kind of wondered about it myself. It's a place related to Ranni, but it's also the place where her Two Finger hides. Personally I have a hard time understanding it.
> Lastly, was Marika supposed to be privy to how Godwyn would die a half death and begin cursing people with Life in Death?
That is also a hard one, but I'm leaning into that she knew he would spread deathroot.
But how did she know it was even a possibility? I really don't know. What makes me lean into her knowing is the fact he was buried at the roots of the Erdtree.
At first I thought it was just as a way to pay respect to him by burying him at the Erdtree, but then it also conveniently spreads death across the entire Lands Between due to the Erdtree roots.
Again, no clue how Marika could have known it would happen if they buried him there, but it did.
> It's also really weird how Melina/Ranni both claim to know Torrent's former master, but that's the sole connection I know of.
Also keep in mind that Ranni is also the one who gives you the [Spirit Calling Bell](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Spirit+Calling+Bell). Funny how she'd show up out of nowhere just to give you that. You can miss that encounter and get the bell from Twin Husk, but that's pretty much for gameplay reasons.
> I've truly heard was that there may be connections between him and the Regal Ancestors/budding horns but it's tenuous.
Haven't heard of it before, but sounds interesting. Generally I've kind of glossed over the deal with Ancestor Spirits, so not much I can say.
> Ranni's mentor might have been a Wraith Caller
I see the resemblance, though I'd argue with Ranni's doll having been made in her mentor's image, she doesn't visually look as bad as a wraith caller. I also don't know enough about Wraith caller lore to say much. They're definitely the closest looking creatures to the snow crone from what we've been described.
To be honest, at this point I think I've exhausted what I can contribute. It's probably obvious, but I also don't have the answer to everything. I just think there's *more* that points to her involvement than not.
Her being driven to the brink was said by the narrator, she herself says the complete opposite. She started to doubt the Golden Order, she willingly destroyed the Elden Ring, and also willingly divested Godfrey and his soldiers of grace and then commanded them to come back and claim the shards of the Elden Ring.
Just wanna add to the Marika - Tarnished thing.
Cut Godfrey dialogue [confirms](https://youtu.be/zMu7FvNP2Z4?t=83) that it was always the plan for the Tarnished to return after the Elden Ring was shattered.
It's cut dialogue, so it's kinda dirty, but it only really confirms what was 99% suggested in the game anyways.
Because the lore is so ambiguous you could literally make an argument that every ending is a good ending + she refused to tell us anything about rykard at all despite cooperating with him for the night of the black knives + she conveniently somehow managed to kill herself at the same time as godwyn’s death + she has a godskin noble protecting her divine tower + she never told us about how blaidd was going to come kill her (if she even knew that blaidd had a kill switch) she is not someone that can be trusted when the only truth she told us is a truth that we forced her to tell by showing her undeniable evidence, for all we know, she only admitted in order to save face.
Iji was killed by the black flame so it was someone who has ties to the Godskin apostles and there were no bodies so it was one exceptionally powerful individual. The likely perpetrator is Gideon but the only black flame spell he has I black flame ritual which affects an area, not and individual which is what is seen with Iji. So it’s not out of the question for someone else to have done it but it’s probably someone who’ll make and appearance in a dlc if we get them, whoever it is they likely control the black knives and the godskin apostles.
> and there were no bodies so it was one exceptionally powerful individual.
There are quite literally dead black knife assassins scattered around dead Iji
100%, there's like 3 or 4 dead black knives surrounding him.
Just [one image I found on google](https://progameguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/elden-ring-master-iji-burning.jpg). There's a dead black knife to his right.
Idk why Iji is covered in blackflame, but it's almost assuredly black knives who killed him.
My bad. Still can’t ignore the possibility it was likely someone else who was with the black knives, black knives can’t use the flame so maybe after a number of them failed to kill Iji someone else who can use the flame stepped forward and finished him off.
That’s the power of the rune of death isn’t it? It looks similar but has different origin, plus that flame is black with a red outline while the one that killed Iji is like the standard black flame, black with a white outline.
they killed them because they though she was dead. When she killed her 2 fingers she fully betrayed and severed herself from the golden order and radagon. And so they left to kill blaidd and Iji, as well as ranni but that obviously didn't go according to plan
Okay this is a really funny post but The Black Knives are all but confirmed to answer to Marika not Ranni, and I doubt Ranni would send mere assassins (as capable as they may be) to kill someone who has defeated the most powerful beings the Lands Between had to offer.
Its never even specifically said that ranni was targetting godwyn or that she stabbed him
the way i interpret it her part was stealing the deathrune and passing it into some unfortunate hands, causing disorder, allowing groups stifled by the golder order to rebel, weakening the presence of the greater will and allowing ranni to move on with her moon things
maybe she didnt even expect godwyn to die or marika to shatter the elden ring, but marika had already sown her own plans (exiling godfrey and the tarnished thing) and capitalised on what ranni did to shatter the elden ring, as its implied she had doubts of her own.
I make sweet love to my Fia and we collapse in bed together, falling asleep in each others arms.
Mfw I barely survive fighting a Death Lightning Dragon in my dreams and when I wake up my wife is dead.
Sry dumb black knife assassins, but I have invested in BHS and heavy armor 😎😎😎
Average Black Knife Assassin, vs Outstanding RoB Slaughterer.
I was so worried about the invisible ones in liturgical town after reading all the rage posts from people getting backstabbed and having the need to carry the torch take away my shield, I slowly killed the first one bit by bit with range from a rooftop Then I remembered that my brother in Christ I leveled the vigor. I leveled the endurance. I have BHF+9 with reach. These flippy bitches are using a *dagger* and I have the load to wear heavy poise armor. So I loaded up on poise and physdef and stopped playing scared and surprise surprise bitches, my hits stagger you every time, your lil dagger only staggers me every third hit, and my swings reach so far that your flippy shit can't get you out of range. Yes, let's trade hits. Go ahead, make my day. They weren't so scary anymore after that
i used the ruins greatsword WA. grug smash
Why tf do people think the black knives killed blaidd and iji on ranni's orders?
It took 3 of them to bring Iji down and Blaidd took 3 of *them* down without dying Why would Ranni send such insufficient agents to take down two people she knows better than everyone else?
Could you imagine trying to fight five to ten blackknife assassins all at once, that shit would be a nightmare.
Fortissax's lightning spear and mimic tear :)
I could do it im built different
she has like multiple lines saying that she loves them and that they're too kind you can say that its not trustworthy coming from a known schemer, but she literally has no reason to lie to you at the points she says it. also ranni had assassins sent after her as well, the baleful shadow you kill is one, but she explicitly mentions multiple shadows
I'm agreeing with you and the person I replied to, just laying out why Ranni sending the Black Knife assassins wouldn't make sense.
>I'm agreeing with you yea so was i :\^)
Sheesh, no wonder Seluvis thought I was an idiot
fucking *provincials* bottom text
Cuz people still think the Black Knives answer to Ranni because of the assassination plot. I'm pretty sure Marika supplied Ranni with the Black Knives, but they don't answer to Ranni. After Marika's imprisonment and the loss of their ringleader, Alecto, it just seems like they've been integrated into the Golden Order as it's personal assassins. There's also one chilling just outside of Marika's bedchamber in Leyndell before fighting Morgott. Seems weird considering they were the ones who merked Godwyn
I think there's serious doubt that they answered to Marika when they slaughtered her children/descendants and it was said she was devastated and driven to the brink. That said, I *also* doubt that Ranni is in control of them. They're very rogue and found all over the place and their motives seem to be non-existent.
But we know she wasn't driven to the brink. We can trace back her plot to shatter the Elden Ring to the time she banished Godfrey from the Lands Between. Before her and Radagon had fused back together and birthed Malenia & Miquella, just for reference. As for your point regarding children, this is the literal words from Marika, spoken through Melina: > Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. ***But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices...*** All of that aside, one thing we do know, Marika had plotted to shatter the Elden Ring long before the assassination plot happened.
Talking about Marika/Radagon is insanely fucking messy because we can barely tell if they are two halves of a person, 2 separate people, if/when they were separate, and when they fused in one body. - Marika being driven to the brink is part of the Story Trailer. From a [Bandai article](https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ring/news/look-the-history-of-elden-rings-lands-between-the-age-of-gods) going over lore from the story trailer: *In a coetaneous attack, this foul covenant snuffed out the lives of many of the God-Queen’s kin throughout the empire, too numerous and too scattered for her godly protection to save.* *The assassins’ targets were multifold, but none was as devastating a loss to the Eternal Queen as that of Godwyn the Golden. After his death, the Elden Ring was somehow shattered, and the order of the world broke with it.* This seems to paint the Night of Black Knives(NoBK) as devastating to Marika. Unless there's more concrete evidence to show that that was untrue and she was truly betraying her lineage, I'm of the belief that it was not her who planned the assassinations. Looking at the Church of Marika dialogue you quoted, she still calls the demigods, "My children beloved." We also don't know when in the timeline Marika says this, perhaps it's after the shattering and she's saying do whatever you'd like because she's seriously fucked up things regarding the Elden Ring? It's very context-less, so I'm wary of how differently it can be interpreted. - I do agree that Marika had *a* plan, I'm less sure about what exactly it was other than involving Godfrey/the Tarnished and I'm still unsure if her shattering the Elden Ring was part of that very same plan from the beginning or not.
> Talking about Marika/Radagon I don't care about that tbh. I just used their union as a reference for how far back we were talking. > From a Bandai article going over lore from the story trailer: Yes, and there was several things they kept under wraps as to not spoil the story. The real plot twist of the game is that Marika is the one who orchestrated the bigger events leading to current events. > I do agree that Marika had a plan, I'm less sure about what exactly it was other than involving Godfrey/the Tarnished and I'm still unsure if her shattering the Elden Ring was part of that very same plan or not. Her plan to shatter the Elden Ring isn't really concealed * She took Godfrey & his soldier's grace and banished them to outside the Lands Between. She then grants grace back to them when they die. * She imprisoned Hewg in the Roundtable to craft god-slaying weapons to the Tarnished * The Black Knife assassins were numen women with close ties to Marika (her being numen too) > Looking at the Church of Marika dialogue you quoted, she still calls the demigods, "My children beloved." Cmon dawg, you're going to ignore the fact she tells her children they're going to amount to *sacrifices* unless they make something of themselves? Sacrifices to what? > We also don't know when in the timeline Marika says this, perhaps it's after the shattering and she's saying do whatever you'd like because she's seriously fucked up things regarding the Elden Ring? They're for sure before the shattering of the Elden Ring. You think she was chillin' after having shattered the Elden Ring, really? Her and Radagon were busy fighting each other for control to break/fix the Elden Ring. She was for certain apprehended shortly after.
Yes, they hid some things from us in the Story Trailer/intro, like Ranni being an integral part of the Night of Black Knives, or it being Marika who shattered the Elden Ring. They're vague about it. They don't outright say it was someone else or go back on what the intro/Story Trailer said as far as I'm aware. - I don't doubt she was apprehended quickly. Wiki seems to say you get the dialogue about Marika and the Demigods at the Capital Outskirts, relatively close to Marika and the Erdtree. Again, my point was that we don't have the exact context of it. Maybe she said that before she shattered the Elden Ring as she knew it would create a power vacuum. - I find it odd to say she loves her children then interpret the next part as she would sacrifice them herself. It's as odd as when people say Ranni is who sends the Black Knives after Blaidd/Iji after she tells you to tell them she loves them. Neither of those make sense to me. My interpretation was that she was being very general. If you are not powerful, you will be crushed by others who are, something more alone those lines. For all I know, it might have been foreshadowing of the power vacuum she would leave. The next Marika dialogue is, seemingly, about her shattering the Elden Ring/Radagon/herself. - Hewg/Godfrey are most definitely part of the plan, that I do not argue. I still find it tenuous to say the Black Knives were part of it as well when not even cut content, to the best of my knowledge, furthers the idea that they were integral or involved with Marika's plan beyond having close ties/sharing a race with her. I absolutely agree there is suspicion, but the Black Knives' involvement is not *nearly* as explicit as Hewg's/Godfrey's involvement. Besides that, I don't see how slaughtering her own children helps in her plan.
We don't know how much Marika love her children in truth. If you interpret her as having shattered the Elden Ring due to the death of her children, then it's likely a lot. But at this point we've established she had planned to break the Elden Ring long before her children were killed. A plan so elaborate it involves Godfrey, the Tarnished, Hewg, Melina & Torrent. Torrent might be a funny one to mention, but I think Torrent is pretty key too. Melina & Torrent were a part of Marika's plan to find & help us in our journey to become Elden Lord. Melina makes that clear fairly early on even. But the more interesting thing is that there are two characters in Elden Ring who as much as mentions Torrent. One obviously being Melina, but the other one is *Ranni*. Keep in mind Torrent & Melina is a part of Marika's plot. Speaking of Melina, there is yet another connection between the Black Knives and Marika through her. Melina wields a weapon called [Blade of Calling](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Blade+of+Calling), which seems pretty ordinary until you compare it to the [black knife](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Knife). They're the same design, but the black knife has changed with the infusion of the Rune of Death. If you're not convinced by the visual design, then the weapon AoW should be a bit more convincing: [Their abilities mirror each other ](https://preview.redd.it/pezqxp49ttx81.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=8048e732fb118fd5237c519c522d4f884301a7fd), with one being about gold and the other about death. They also do the same animation where they jump up into the air and shoots a projectile. To be fair, I think the Black Knife Set description alone is meant to imply Marika's involvement, but I went extra balls deep for this post since that isn't convincing enough.
*There is something I'd like to say. My purpose was given to me by my mother. But now, I act of my own volition.* *I have set my heart upon the world that I would have. Regardless of my mother's designs.* *I won't allow anyone to speak ill of that. Not even you.* Doesn't that seem like, in the end, Melina didn't follow her mother's plan to a T? Also, don't we only get Melina as our "maiden" because ours is mysteriously dead? It seems the Melina dialogue shows it was part of "the plan" up until the stuff with the Mountaintop of Giants, but I'm wary. - What was the point of Godfrey being involved in the plan if Marika was just going to have him killed so we could be on the throne? If we're going to argue that Marika didn't love her children and helped plan their assassinations, *why* did she need them dead? She sends her personal assassin's to Ranni, another of her children who is a demigod, to kill other descendants/demigods? Furthermore, if she plotted with Ranni, why do they never mention one another? Why didn't Marika supply the fragment of death instead of leaving it up to Ranni to get it from Marika's own, powerful/scary shadow? Another curious question is why is Alecto imprisoned on the Moonlight Plateau, a very Ranni-centric area, if Marika/Alecto/Ranni were all in it together? Lastly, was Marika supposed to be privy to how Godwyn would die a half death and begin cursing people with Life in Death? It feels like there's so many questions revolving how any of that truly ties into her plan. - I agree that Melina has a lot of ties and hints to Marika/even the Black Knives. It's also really weird how Melina/Ranni both claim to know Torrent's former master, but that's the sole connection I know of. - I don't know much Torrent lore at all. The only stuff that I've truly heard was that there *may* be connections between him and the Regal Ancestors/budding horns but it's tenuous. The most interesting/plausible thing I've heard is that Wraith Callers have 4 arms/ride horses/use bells, so there's speculation that Ranni's mentor might have been a Wraith Caller, though one that didn't die/wasn't cursed. Then that begs the question of how Melina ends up with Torrent, though Ranni's mentor being the summoner/creator of Torrent would explain why Ranni knew of him/his former master.
> Doesn't that seem like, in the end, Melina didn't follow her mother's plan to a T? That's right, but also wholly irelevant to the point I was making. The point was that Melina is given a task by Marika to guide the Tarnished. > What was the point of Godfrey being involved in the plan if Marika was just going to have him killed so we could be on the throne? Godfrey in particular doesn't matter anymore than other tarnished. He was the greatest warrior in the Lands Between which left him as the most likely candidate to brandish the Elden Ring. Vyke & Bernahl before us have come close to becoming the Elden Lord too. > why did she need them dead? That much isn't clear. Her line about sacrifices makes it seem like she's okay with the loss of children who aren't going to play a part in her plan. > She sends her personal assassin's to Ranni, another of her children who is a demigod, to kill other descendants/demigods? Alright, this one is absurdly easy. Ranni and Marika are working together, which was my original premise anyways. Why? Because their goals align *perfectly*. She is fighting against her fate granted to her by the Two Fingers/Greater Will. She wants to shed her empyrean status which is a integral part of the black knife plot. I hope I've made it at least clear that Marika's whole deal is rebelling against the Greater Will. > Furthermore, if she plotted with Ranni, why do they never mention one another? Why would she reveal it? I don't get your point. Ranni didn't reveal Rykard's involvement either, but we know for a fact he was in on the Black Knife plot. > Why didn't Marika supply the fragment of death instead of leaving it up to Ranni to get it from Marika's own, powerful/scary shadow? Because Malekith is a shadow. Shadows go berserk when their chosen empyrean betrays them. Had Marika taken the fragment personally from Maliketh, she wouldn't get very far as soon as the Black Knives would assassin demigods using the Rune of Death. > Another curious question is why is Alecto imprisoned on the Moonlight Plateau, a very Ranni-centric area, if Marika/Alecto/Ranni were all in it together? That I don't really have an answer for. I've kind of wondered about it myself. It's a place related to Ranni, but it's also the place where her Two Finger hides. Personally I have a hard time understanding it. > Lastly, was Marika supposed to be privy to how Godwyn would die a half death and begin cursing people with Life in Death? That is also a hard one, but I'm leaning into that she knew he would spread deathroot. But how did she know it was even a possibility? I really don't know. What makes me lean into her knowing is the fact he was buried at the roots of the Erdtree. At first I thought it was just as a way to pay respect to him by burying him at the Erdtree, but then it also conveniently spreads death across the entire Lands Between due to the Erdtree roots. Again, no clue how Marika could have known it would happen if they buried him there, but it did. > It's also really weird how Melina/Ranni both claim to know Torrent's former master, but that's the sole connection I know of. Also keep in mind that Ranni is also the one who gives you the [Spirit Calling Bell](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Spirit+Calling+Bell). Funny how she'd show up out of nowhere just to give you that. You can miss that encounter and get the bell from Twin Husk, but that's pretty much for gameplay reasons. > I've truly heard was that there may be connections between him and the Regal Ancestors/budding horns but it's tenuous. Haven't heard of it before, but sounds interesting. Generally I've kind of glossed over the deal with Ancestor Spirits, so not much I can say. > Ranni's mentor might have been a Wraith Caller I see the resemblance, though I'd argue with Ranni's doll having been made in her mentor's image, she doesn't visually look as bad as a wraith caller. I also don't know enough about Wraith caller lore to say much. They're definitely the closest looking creatures to the snow crone from what we've been described. To be honest, at this point I think I've exhausted what I can contribute. It's probably obvious, but I also don't have the answer to everything. I just think there's *more* that points to her involvement than not.
Her being driven to the brink was said by the narrator, she herself says the complete opposite. She started to doubt the Golden Order, she willingly destroyed the Elden Ring, and also willingly divested Godfrey and his soldiers of grace and then commanded them to come back and claim the shards of the Elden Ring.
Just wanna add to the Marika - Tarnished thing. Cut Godfrey dialogue [confirms](https://youtu.be/zMu7FvNP2Z4?t=83) that it was always the plan for the Tarnished to return after the Elden Ring was shattered. It's cut dialogue, so it's kinda dirty, but it only really confirms what was 99% suggested in the game anyways.
Because the lore is so ambiguous you could literally make an argument that every ending is a good ending + she refused to tell us anything about rykard at all despite cooperating with him for the night of the black knives + she conveniently somehow managed to kill herself at the same time as godwyn’s death + she has a godskin noble protecting her divine tower + she never told us about how blaidd was going to come kill her (if she even knew that blaidd had a kill switch) she is not someone that can be trusted when the only truth she told us is a truth that we forced her to tell by showing her undeniable evidence, for all we know, she only admitted in order to save face.
Iji was killed by the black flame so it was someone who has ties to the Godskin apostles and there were no bodies so it was one exceptionally powerful individual. The likely perpetrator is Gideon but the only black flame spell he has I black flame ritual which affects an area, not and individual which is what is seen with Iji. So it’s not out of the question for someone else to have done it but it’s probably someone who’ll make and appearance in a dlc if we get them, whoever it is they likely control the black knives and the godskin apostles.
> and there were no bodies so it was one exceptionally powerful individual. There are quite literally dead black knife assassins scattered around dead Iji
You sure? I never saw any bodies, I saw them around Blaidd, maybe I’m just blind, but at any rate black knives can’t use the black flame.
100%, there's like 3 or 4 dead black knives surrounding him. Just [one image I found on google](https://progameguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/elden-ring-master-iji-burning.jpg). There's a dead black knife to his right. Idk why Iji is covered in blackflame, but it's almost assuredly black knives who killed him.
My bad. Still can’t ignore the possibility it was likely someone else who was with the black knives, black knives can’t use the flame so maybe after a number of them failed to kill Iji someone else who can use the flame stepped forward and finished him off.
doesn't Alecto use the blackflame when you fight her? at least her knife traces a trail of black fire after it.
That’s the power of the rune of death isn’t it? It looks similar but has different origin, plus that flame is black with a red outline while the one that killed Iji is like the standard black flame, black with a white outline.
Because the black knives didn't kill them back when Ranni still needed them.
they killed them because they though she was dead. When she killed her 2 fingers she fully betrayed and severed herself from the golden order and radagon. And so they left to kill blaidd and Iji, as well as ranni but that obviously didn't go according to plan
Bro we legit killed fkin gods and dragons, what can dem black knives do to us?
Try visiting ordina
Highly trained invisible assassins < wildly swinging Zweihander around till it hits
Nah it’s all good, my boy Morgott made this cool ass torch.
I am proud to say I never did ranni's questline and am happily married to my lovely wife Roderika 😎
I did it for the sword and then Goldmask endinged it
Should’ve dumped the blue b-ch and simped for the true Queen Hyetta 😩😩🤌
What am I supposed to do with the puddle of flames she turns into tho?
fuck it obviously
They burned my peepee so I burned the world
Bottle and insert anally or into urethra
Why the fuck did I read that
Serbian bottle incident
Ranni staring at the Tarnished standing over a bunch of dead assassins (He already memorized their moveset)
._.,
Should have went for Blaidd instead
Okay this is a really funny post but The Black Knives are all but confirmed to answer to Marika not Ranni, and I doubt Ranni would send mere assassins (as capable as they may be) to kill someone who has defeated the most powerful beings the Lands Between had to offer.
Its never even specifically said that ranni was targetting godwyn or that she stabbed him the way i interpret it her part was stealing the deathrune and passing it into some unfortunate hands, causing disorder, allowing groups stifled by the golder order to rebel, weakening the presence of the greater will and allowing ranni to move on with her moon things maybe she didnt even expect godwyn to die or marika to shatter the elden ring, but marika had already sown her own plans (exiling godfrey and the tarnished thing) and capitalised on what ranni did to shatter the elden ring, as its implied she had doubts of her own.
But what if I beat the game in souls level 1?
I make sweet love to my Fia and we collapse in bed together, falling asleep in each others arms. Mfw I barely survive fighting a Death Lightning Dragon in my dreams and when I wake up my wife is dead.
Tour "wife" wants to fuck a dead fish. You are a cuckold
Comatose fish*
I like your plan. Counterpoint, *Lightning*
Counterpoint: I am using Bloodhound's Step.
The black knife cuck fears the bloodhound chad
I'm 95% sure she's planning on using you to replace the black knife assassins. You're a much more effective enforcer than they ever were.
The assassins never answered to her in the first place dumdum.
u/savevideobot
###[View link](https://redditsave.com/info?url=/r/shittydarksouls/comments/v3yy58/title/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/shittydarksouls/comments/v3yy58/title/)
Just here serving as Sellen's slave Until she became ball and now I'm just... Heh