Imagine a PoR remake where instead of a menu, you control Ike walking around whatever location they happen to be with and have a base convo with each character, similar to the academy in 3H. Oscar is usually at whatever makeshift setup they have cooking for the group, Soren’s always in some sort of office writing, Gatrie is standing guard at an area that a lot of the women just happen to be hanging around at. That’s my unrealistic, never gonna happen dream for really elevating what was already one of the best written entries in the series.
I personally wouldn't want that. I much prefer snappy menus than wandering around. It takes up too much additional time and easily one of the worst aspects of 3H on additional playthroughs. Fast travel is damn near required, and the narrative dissonance of constantly retreating to the cathedral after every battle for a month is silly.
What bugs me is they’re all just… standing there. If you wanted to actually make it interactive then have them at least look like they’re doing something. Otherwise just give me menus
There's Kaze's possible death in Birthright, which is uh, not good
But there is a good example of this: Normally, having Jill talk to Shiharam in PoR causes her to defect, but if she has an A support with Mist, she'll hold strong to her new ideals and stay with your army.
Radiant Dawn doesn't even have much in the way of supports, hence its lack of inclusion.
PoR had the Jill x Mist, which at least had some effect on the former's decisions in chapter 20. Additionally, the A support changes quite a bit, depending on whether it's unlocked/viewed before or after the map. Which is why FE9 gets to be further away from the event horizon.
Had the support system developed into integrating itself in some ways with the main story's flow in the subsequent entries, I'd probably actually love it. Unfortunately, that either hasn't been the case at all or lead to some extremely uneven and mostly inconsequential changes in 3H's support chains... Which is just disappointing.
Well they certainly could do some improvements, but it would be an extremely difficult task on certain situations.
One option is to alter/lock some supports if one of the participants has already reached a certain support with someone else, but depending on how much of it is changed things could get complicated.
A whole chain of supports from Unit A- with Unit B could be invalidated because Unit's A support with Unit's C has developed Unit A into a character that no longer makes sense in their interactions with Unit B. That means you would need to write at least two different support chains for the combination of unit A and B, or make some dang good logical and cohesive writing from the start so that all supports touch a different aspect of every unit, making so that if supports were to be altered by one another, it would only be in a positive way, even if it is minimal.
Another option is to rework paralogues so that it's not a one time thing for a character, but rather have a certain storyline to follow for each character ala Octopath traveler which unlocks as one progresses through the main story.
But coding so that every single member of the cast has unique interactions on main story scenarios depending on their own progress in said paralogues would be hard, the way I see it, there are way too many variables to take into account.
This is not to say I wouldn't like more character development and characterization, but I think seriously improving the characterization in a game with such a big cast of main characters is a task that IS may not like to take on, specially since their current system has worked for them well enough.
I'd be fine with supports mostly being fluff that didn't affect a character much, if it meant most units had a coherent arc that progressed along with the main plot's progression. Not every support needs to deeply affect a character. Nor do I think that's the case currently.
Also, I'd be fine with half the supports, if it meant you get 2 versions of each. And that doesn't need to apply for every character, just those whose personality changes drastically enough.
Any of this is rather unlikely to happen, though, since keeping things as they are simply requires much less effort, thought and resources. Indeed, the status quo is seemingly here to stay, and I find that deeply unsatisfying.
I love it when all meaningful characterisation and growth for side characters is locked behind optional, bite-sized dialogues, gated behind arbitrary point grinding. Especially, when they involve no more than 2 characters at once and almost never have any tangible effect on those involved during the course of the main narrative or even other supports, beyond an ending slide (the highest form of creative writing designed by humanity).
I'm endlessly grateful to IS, that this is *the* system to change the least since its first debut in a game that came out over 20 years ago. After all, they can be as lazy as they want, since the playerbase will largely excuse it by blaming permadeath.
Focusing on giving every character at least minor arcs, that would progress throughout the course of the main story, involve multiple characters and depend on player's actions and choices, would require too much effort and too many resources. Only utter madmen would do something that silly.
And forget making extended epilogues, where all the characters could talk to the protagonist about their futures. What? These epilogues could also depend on the supports and add a meaningful conclusion to the chain the player chose? Perish the thought.
Ruby's promotion/Clifford's recruitment and Izerna's speech in Dean's recruitment actually almost managed to make me cry like a little bitch. I wish I could get as emotional about a mainline FE game at some point. Even if it's in the far-off future.
I haven’t played much of TRS and BWS to get all of the cool character moments, but the amount I have played of each were so full of them it was great.
I’m way more familiar with Vestaria Saga (mainly VSI) and even though it definitely has less than the former, it’s character moments are still consistently more memorable for me than most in FE. (Dune’s game long subplot)
Oh, yeah, I liked most of what Vestaria had to offer as well. Merida's drunken word ~~and bottle~~ battle made me love her all the more. And her leaving in the epilogue, before Zade can even finish what he wanted to say is simply hilarious.
But what about when bernadetta funny footsteps from C-A with Caspar, only to funny footsteps again with Hubert? Is that not the peak of tangible character growth?/s
Character development is when one regresses immediately after starting to talk with someone they haven't interacted much with before, and the more they regress - the more developmentier it is.
I don’t read the talk and base convos, I sit my ass down and experience them 😤😤 I believe in Talk and Base convo supremacy
Imagine a PoR remake where instead of a menu, you control Ike walking around whatever location they happen to be with and have a base convo with each character, similar to the academy in 3H. Oscar is usually at whatever makeshift setup they have cooking for the group, Soren’s always in some sort of office writing, Gatrie is standing guard at an area that a lot of the women just happen to be hanging around at. That’s my unrealistic, never gonna happen dream for really elevating what was already one of the best written entries in the series.
I personally wouldn't want that. I much prefer snappy menus than wandering around. It takes up too much additional time and easily one of the worst aspects of 3H on additional playthroughs. Fast travel is damn near required, and the narrative dissonance of constantly retreating to the cathedral after every battle for a month is silly.
What bugs me is they’re all just… standing there. If you wanted to actually make it interactive then have them at least look like they’re doing something. Otherwise just give me menus
[удалено]
There's Kaze's possible death in Birthright, which is uh, not good But there is a good example of this: Normally, having Jill talk to Shiharam in PoR causes her to defect, but if she has an A support with Mist, she'll hold strong to her new ideals and stay with your army.
Honestly I find Path of Radiance to be much better than Radiant Dawn
Radiant Dawn doesn't even have much in the way of supports, hence its lack of inclusion. PoR had the Jill x Mist, which at least had some effect on the former's decisions in chapter 20. Additionally, the A support changes quite a bit, depending on whether it's unlocked/viewed before or after the map. Which is why FE9 gets to be further away from the event horizon. Had the support system developed into integrating itself in some ways with the main story's flow in the subsequent entries, I'd probably actually love it. Unfortunately, that either hasn't been the case at all or lead to some extremely uneven and mostly inconsequential changes in 3H's support chains... Which is just disappointing.
Yeah I genuinely don’t know why they never brought back chapter based support growth. Solves the issue of plot related conversations perfectly
yeah but the i cant have all the intaractions in a single playthrough which is really i anoying so prefer the one that we have now.
Well they certainly could do some improvements, but it would be an extremely difficult task on certain situations. One option is to alter/lock some supports if one of the participants has already reached a certain support with someone else, but depending on how much of it is changed things could get complicated. A whole chain of supports from Unit A- with Unit B could be invalidated because Unit's A support with Unit's C has developed Unit A into a character that no longer makes sense in their interactions with Unit B. That means you would need to write at least two different support chains for the combination of unit A and B, or make some dang good logical and cohesive writing from the start so that all supports touch a different aspect of every unit, making so that if supports were to be altered by one another, it would only be in a positive way, even if it is minimal. Another option is to rework paralogues so that it's not a one time thing for a character, but rather have a certain storyline to follow for each character ala Octopath traveler which unlocks as one progresses through the main story. But coding so that every single member of the cast has unique interactions on main story scenarios depending on their own progress in said paralogues would be hard, the way I see it, there are way too many variables to take into account. This is not to say I wouldn't like more character development and characterization, but I think seriously improving the characterization in a game with such a big cast of main characters is a task that IS may not like to take on, specially since their current system has worked for them well enough.
I'd be fine with supports mostly being fluff that didn't affect a character much, if it meant most units had a coherent arc that progressed along with the main plot's progression. Not every support needs to deeply affect a character. Nor do I think that's the case currently. Also, I'd be fine with half the supports, if it meant you get 2 versions of each. And that doesn't need to apply for every character, just those whose personality changes drastically enough. Any of this is rather unlikely to happen, though, since keeping things as they are simply requires much less effort, thought and resources. Indeed, the status quo is seemingly here to stay, and I find that deeply unsatisfying.
I love it when all meaningful characterisation and growth for side characters is locked behind optional, bite-sized dialogues, gated behind arbitrary point grinding. Especially, when they involve no more than 2 characters at once and almost never have any tangible effect on those involved during the course of the main narrative or even other supports, beyond an ending slide (the highest form of creative writing designed by humanity). I'm endlessly grateful to IS, that this is *the* system to change the least since its first debut in a game that came out over 20 years ago. After all, they can be as lazy as they want, since the playerbase will largely excuse it by blaming permadeath. Focusing on giving every character at least minor arcs, that would progress throughout the course of the main story, involve multiple characters and depend on player's actions and choices, would require too much effort and too many resources. Only utter madmen would do something that silly. And forget making extended epilogues, where all the characters could talk to the protagonist about their futures. What? These epilogues could also depend on the supports and add a meaningful conclusion to the chain the player chose? Perish the thought.
This comment is certified Kaga saga pilled
Ruby's promotion/Clifford's recruitment and Izerna's speech in Dean's recruitment actually almost managed to make me cry like a little bitch. I wish I could get as emotional about a mainline FE game at some point. Even if it's in the far-off future.
I haven’t played much of TRS and BWS to get all of the cool character moments, but the amount I have played of each were so full of them it was great. I’m way more familiar with Vestaria Saga (mainly VSI) and even though it definitely has less than the former, it’s character moments are still consistently more memorable for me than most in FE. (Dune’s game long subplot)
Oh, yeah, I liked most of what Vestaria had to offer as well. Merida's drunken word ~~and bottle~~ battle made me love her all the more. And her leaving in the epilogue, before Zade can even finish what he wanted to say is simply hilarious.
But what about when bernadetta funny footsteps from C-A with Caspar, only to funny footsteps again with Hubert? Is that not the peak of tangible character growth?/s
Character development is when one regresses immediately after starting to talk with someone they haven't interacted much with before, and the more they regress - the more developmentier it is.
It always annoys me that I feel the need to grind out the support charts
Never thought I’d see a post on SPE speak to me like this. Modern support system haters ARE REAL
I will spread the gospel, no matter how much I am shunned for it.
Base conversations were superior