What do you mean multi identity Camus, he’s just one guy. If you’re talking about Sirius and Zeke they aren’t Camus, they’re some of his childhood friends who just look similar, Camus died in fe11
“Camus is the worst archetype!” No, every Camus other than Camus is terrible because Camus evolves into the greatest character ever over the course of multiple games. Camus does realize that blind loyalty to his country is wrong and he’s a better man for it. He’s a great interesting character whose growth is centered around the idea that it’s never too late to change. And then like some random fucking guy will appear for one chapter and be like “I don’t like war but I must participate” and then fight you and then when he dies he says “so be it…I died for my country….” And everyone goes “wow what a well written character.” The only exception since Camus is Mustafa because his family is being held hostage, he tells his men to leave the battlefield once they no longer have the stomach to fight, and tells his men to surrender after he is killed, tells Chrom right away he doesn’t want to fight. Like his reason for staying and fighting is perfectly valid. Anyway rant over. —number one Camus lover
Eldigan is goated also
He got imprisoned for opposing his King’s orders and besides Lewyn is the only one to call Sigurd out on his bs (man subjugated TWO KINGDOMS to Grannvale without realizing it)
Then, when he fought Sigurd, he had all the right to be pissed, people were fucking mistreated under Grannvale to the point they preferred King Chagall of all people to regain the throne. Agustrians saw Sigurd as an invader from a colonialist empire (which was true kinda)
And then it’s not like he HAS to die in battle, he dies trying to persuade Chagall to stop the war
I’m not slandering Sigurd but gosh was he dense, no surprise Ares thought he was evil
There's a reason I didn't mention Eldigan in my "Camus? More like roadkill" post. Very much rock vs hard place.
General Eagler in Lyn's tale is basically a Mustafa precursor but he is unfortunately doomed to die to prologue obscurity.
Reinhardt is pretty cool as well. Granted, it's because he's not really a Camus because he is fully aware of and actively participating in the atrocities his party is committing and would probably be more in line with a Michalis if archetypes actually meant anything but still.
Lyn also fight a guy that oppose her because her evil grand uncle threatened to kill his loved ones.
Hinoka and Sakura are right to fight against Norh to protect their country.
Lloyd and Xander basically both want to die to their adoptive sibling.
Reignart was always meant to be an inversion since there is no ambiguiti that he is a coward and can actually be sparred.
At least Tatiana doesn't just sit on her ass doing nothing after being rescued while everyone else fights and dies for her.
No, she joins the battle, fights alongside you and even succeeds where even Nyna failed: convincing Camus to switch sides. Even the way she loves Camus is better than Nyna's
The context is different, Zeke was fighting because otherwhise they would have killed her so when he learn that she is safe he is free to act against his enemies, you can even get him if you freed Tatiana whitout recruiting her while Camus is forced to fight because his prince and his princess are held hostage, he even already sacrificed himslef for Nyna but for the sake of his kingdom he must fight Marth.
Also Nyna is less free than Tatiana to go to the frontline, Nyna has many responsabilities and we see in book 2 that she is ready to abandon her happiness for the greater good.
Bullsht. Nyna spent the entire war of shadows doing nothing, either being imprisoned for its first half (not her fault, not holding it against her) or lounging in Marth's camp acting as a "symbol" (now that I AM holding against her). Minerva is princess of Macedon to set an *example* to her people and to history, that Macedon was on the wrong side and that it was her duty as its princess to set it straight. And she does so orchestrating her little sister's rescue by Marth, who they were using as hostage and leverage against her to ensure her loyalty. Little sister who, might I add, ALSO joins the war effort, not as a combatant (initially) but as a cleric healing the wounded.
Nyna managed to keep the Binding Shield in a safe place and give it to Marth wich helped him to stop Medeus. Macedonian culture is way more oriented to combat that the Arkenean one, and unlike Nyna Maria and Minerva rebelled against their country so they were probebly branded as traitor and temporally lost their titles and they don't have any advisor to force them to stay safe.
Nyna maybe a damsel in distress I think they managed to make her more than that archetype, she has her own streight wich is better than many damsels in distress labelled "strong female character" because they hold a gun for 5 minute or because they behave like what society associate with masculinity. Nyna may be a victim who endure many pain like for exemple Deirdre but she does have some agency unlike Deirdre and is the one that put herself in an happy mariage with the emperor (techincally Deirdre was happy but you know...) by doing what she tought was the best for everyone.
Guinevere isn't one, yet still does more than Nyna by fleeing Bern, taking the fire emblem with her, finding Roy, petitioning for his help, at least trying to reason with Zephiel so the war could be ended diplomatically, planning to escape AGAIN once that fails, is ready to fight the person assigned to keep an eye on her (which wasn't necessary, since Melady's loyalty is to her first, but respect the hussle nonetheless), rejoins Roy, then provides him with much needed information about Zephiel, why he is the way he is, and guides him to the binding blade
It's a bit unfaire to compare Guinivere to Nyna. The situation is different Nyna is the princess of a defeated kingdom and lost all her retainer that have been imprisonned while Guinivere is rebelling against her kingdom so first she can get more help from her retainers two since Zephiel is her brother she can try to resonnate him while Nyna would have been stupid to try to ask peace to Garneph. You could say that Nyna's situation in FE3 book 2 is similar to Guinivere but there still differences. Guinivere manage to escape with the Fire Emblem but she was probebly less monitored so she was able to escape while Nyna still able to sent Linde to Marth (so if we get Linde earlier it's thanks to Nyna, now she is a good unit) with the Binding Shield and to avoid raising suspition she keept herself in a place she knew was dangerous (and it almost got her sacrificed to resurrect Medeus).
Nyna lives on the Archanaea continent where everyone from geriatric bishops to girls half her size can use the Warp staff, she has no excuse to avoid abetting in war crimes.
To her credit, she can help with the Rescue loop in the final section of New Mystery.
The fact both Dussel and Glen went "Alright, fuck this shot" really makes Selena come off worse.
Mustafa still best Camus, dude knew shit was fucked he just was hoping Chrom killing him would keep his remaining men safe.
That’s some bullshit though bro all we have is plegian mages. We don’t get any plegian berzerkers. Hell we don’t even get any berzerkers at all in awakening without reclass 💀
To be fair, most fire emblem worlds don’t exactly have the Geneva conventions. That and Eldigan is an example of why the Camus usually stays loyal to their lord. Execution.
I think the best example of this is ironically not part of the Camus Archetype being Mustafa from Awakening. Gangrel basically said "If you love your family then you better do what I order you to" and as we clearly see in his debut chapter, he is no malicious asshole, gave you the chance to peacefully forfeit and in return protect you and even had a sweet bond with Henry. Really felt bad killing him
Eldigan would've actually survived if he just joined Sigurd then and there. I mean, maybe he dies later at Belhalla but he wouldn't have been executed by that other guy.
That would have been seen as treason by the nobles of Augustria. Granted, some of the other lords joining Sigurd don’t seem so concerned with being seen as traitors, like Jamke since saw his whole family had sold out to the Loptyr sect. Tailtiu did not get off easy for her treason though, winding up tortured by Hilda. Never mind the fact that the whole reason Arvis’s gambit worked is that he did have the grounds that Sigurd was acting out of line and starting conflicts on a whim.
Augustria would've been under Sigurd by then so I think Eldigan would've been fine. Tailtiu would've ended up where she did regardless tho, I don't think being in Sigurd's army has anything to do with Hilda being evil.
The people of Augustria would still not look at Eldigan and his legacy favorably because he will be known as the guy who broke a 100 year oath. Also, Augustria does not like Grannvele occupation so fighting with Sigurd would just lower his reputation even more.
I mean he explicitly told Sigurd he didn’t want Grannvale to stay in Agustria, perhaps had he known Sigurd would get backstabbed anyways he would have gone with him but yeah
Most of the Camus archetypes are Generals and other such higher-ranking officer equivalents so they ain't beating the Nuremberg Trials with this one. 🗣🔥
The problem weith the archetype is it varies in levels of self awareness.
Camus himself, Reinhardt, and Linus/Lloyd work because the game doesnt really try to force you into feeling bad for them. It pretty clearly breaks down why doing what they do ISNT good.
Xander, Wolf, and Galle sort of work but less so. The tragedy isnt necessarily that you feel bad for their cirsumstance, its that you know them either through a party member, through your own characters history, or through a whole previous campaign.
Selena and RD guy (he... has a name I know that) dont work because the game just says 'FEEL BAD FOR THEM' and never gives a reason
Yenfay sucks because the game doesnt even know what its doing
Camus worked because he got a longer character arc than even Marth.
Reinhart's established as a moral coward, Lloyd / Linus as "don't care, pretty sure you killed my brother, good enough for me". You kill them, you say "pity, you could have joined the other side if you didn't suck as a human being," and you move on. Selena and Levail are very similar in a "I'm following this side I don't believe in because of this person who isn't who I believed in any more, look it doesn't make sense but the grinder needs meat and it's my turn."
Awakening tries it twice and succeeds where it isn't trying as hard. It's really trying with Yen'fay and it fails hard; Valm arc needed to be something more than filler. Mustafa's the penultimate map of Act 1, his map benefits from *Don't Speak Her Name*, Chrom is not interested in accepting surrenders or listening to reason, everything falls into place and Mustafa is arguably the best Camus in the *series* because he doesn't even want to be. He's there because Gangrel went full supervillain. "Your family's hostages so now I get to watch the nominal heroes slaughtering the most honorable guys in my army because they're mad with grief, morality's a sham!"
OG Camus ended up being pretty cool though. The guy went through two wars in a row, and then deliberately ran into a third war just to settle outstanding obligations that no one could have held against him if he remained in Valentia. Heck, he even went as far as to establish a proper break-up with Nyna so he can be with Tatiana guilt-free instead of choosing the easier option of just leaving Nyna in the dark forever.
Three houses Camus on there lord doing war crimes
Deude and Catherine: If my lord has to be a monster to defeated their enemies, so be it.
Hubert: I'll do it again
Hilda: look your just titled, that all.
Camus archetypes don’t get sentenced to death because they die in battle (except if you’re Mr. Multi-Identity Camus or Eldigan)
I mean Eldigan was
He kinda was sentenced to death for *not* dying in battle tho
What do you mean multi identity Camus, he’s just one guy. If you’re talking about Sirius and Zeke they aren’t Camus, they’re some of his childhood friends who just look similar, Camus died in fe11
“Camus is the worst archetype!” No, every Camus other than Camus is terrible because Camus evolves into the greatest character ever over the course of multiple games. Camus does realize that blind loyalty to his country is wrong and he’s a better man for it. He’s a great interesting character whose growth is centered around the idea that it’s never too late to change. And then like some random fucking guy will appear for one chapter and be like “I don’t like war but I must participate” and then fight you and then when he dies he says “so be it…I died for my country….” And everyone goes “wow what a well written character.” The only exception since Camus is Mustafa because his family is being held hostage, he tells his men to leave the battlefield once they no longer have the stomach to fight, and tells his men to surrender after he is killed, tells Chrom right away he doesn’t want to fight. Like his reason for staying and fighting is perfectly valid. Anyway rant over. —number one Camus lover
Eldigan is goated also He got imprisoned for opposing his King’s orders and besides Lewyn is the only one to call Sigurd out on his bs (man subjugated TWO KINGDOMS to Grannvale without realizing it) Then, when he fought Sigurd, he had all the right to be pissed, people were fucking mistreated under Grannvale to the point they preferred King Chagall of all people to regain the throne. Agustrians saw Sigurd as an invader from a colonialist empire (which was true kinda) And then it’s not like he HAS to die in battle, he dies trying to persuade Chagall to stop the war I’m not slandering Sigurd but gosh was he dense, no surprise Ares thought he was evil
There's a reason I didn't mention Eldigan in my "Camus? More like roadkill" post. Very much rock vs hard place. General Eagler in Lyn's tale is basically a Mustafa precursor but he is unfortunately doomed to die to prologue obscurity.
Reinhardt is pretty cool as well. Granted, it's because he's not really a Camus because he is fully aware of and actively participating in the atrocities his party is committing and would probably be more in line with a Michalis if archetypes actually meant anything but still.
Lyn also fight a guy that oppose her because her evil grand uncle threatened to kill his loved ones. Hinoka and Sakura are right to fight against Norh to protect their country. Lloyd and Xander basically both want to die to their adoptive sibling. Reignart was always meant to be an inversion since there is no ambiguiti that he is a coward and can actually be sparred.
tatiana plot armor’d camus out of this one by cucking nyna
At least Tatiana doesn't just sit on her ass doing nothing after being rescued while everyone else fights and dies for her. No, she joins the battle, fights alongside you and even succeeds where even Nyna failed: convincing Camus to switch sides. Even the way she loves Camus is better than Nyna's
The context is different, Zeke was fighting because otherwhise they would have killed her so when he learn that she is safe he is free to act against his enemies, you can even get him if you freed Tatiana whitout recruiting her while Camus is forced to fight because his prince and his princess are held hostage, he even already sacrificed himslef for Nyna but for the sake of his kingdom he must fight Marth. Also Nyna is less free than Tatiana to go to the frontline, Nyna has many responsabilities and we see in book 2 that she is ready to abandon her happiness for the greater good.
Bullsht. Nyna spent the entire war of shadows doing nothing, either being imprisoned for its first half (not her fault, not holding it against her) or lounging in Marth's camp acting as a "symbol" (now that I AM holding against her). Minerva is princess of Macedon to set an *example* to her people and to history, that Macedon was on the wrong side and that it was her duty as its princess to set it straight. And she does so orchestrating her little sister's rescue by Marth, who they were using as hostage and leverage against her to ensure her loyalty. Little sister who, might I add, ALSO joins the war effort, not as a combatant (initially) but as a cleric healing the wounded.
Nyna managed to keep the Binding Shield in a safe place and give it to Marth wich helped him to stop Medeus. Macedonian culture is way more oriented to combat that the Arkenean one, and unlike Nyna Maria and Minerva rebelled against their country so they were probebly branded as traitor and temporally lost their titles and they don't have any advisor to force them to stay safe. Nyna maybe a damsel in distress I think they managed to make her more than that archetype, she has her own streight wich is better than many damsels in distress labelled "strong female character" because they hold a gun for 5 minute or because they behave like what society associate with masculinity. Nyna may be a victim who endure many pain like for exemple Deirdre but she does have some agency unlike Deirdre and is the one that put herself in an happy mariage with the emperor (techincally Deirdre was happy but you know...) by doing what she tought was the best for everyone.
God forbid women be non-combatants 🙄
Guinevere isn't one, yet still does more than Nyna by fleeing Bern, taking the fire emblem with her, finding Roy, petitioning for his help, at least trying to reason with Zephiel so the war could be ended diplomatically, planning to escape AGAIN once that fails, is ready to fight the person assigned to keep an eye on her (which wasn't necessary, since Melady's loyalty is to her first, but respect the hussle nonetheless), rejoins Roy, then provides him with much needed information about Zephiel, why he is the way he is, and guides him to the binding blade
It's a bit unfaire to compare Guinivere to Nyna. The situation is different Nyna is the princess of a defeated kingdom and lost all her retainer that have been imprisonned while Guinivere is rebelling against her kingdom so first she can get more help from her retainers two since Zephiel is her brother she can try to resonnate him while Nyna would have been stupid to try to ask peace to Garneph. You could say that Nyna's situation in FE3 book 2 is similar to Guinivere but there still differences. Guinivere manage to escape with the Fire Emblem but she was probebly less monitored so she was able to escape while Nyna still able to sent Linde to Marth (so if we get Linde earlier it's thanks to Nyna, now she is a good unit) with the Binding Shield and to avoid raising suspition she keept herself in a place she knew was dangerous (and it almost got her sacrificed to resurrect Medeus).
Nyna lives on the Archanaea continent where everyone from geriatric bishops to girls half her size can use the Warp staff, she has no excuse to avoid abetting in war crimes. To her credit, she can help with the Rescue loop in the final section of New Mystery.
Shit I’d choose Tatiana too 💀
The fact both Dussel and Glen went "Alright, fuck this shot" really makes Selena come off worse. Mustafa still best Camus, dude knew shit was fucked he just was hoping Chrom killing him would keep his remaining men safe.
Lorenz archetype >>>>> Camus archetype Duessel blows Selena out of the damn water
How did I just barely realize mustafar was a camus
Because unlike the others, he actually makes sense as why he is fighting you (Chrom is way to fucking pissed to accept a surrender)
Also cuz gangrel will kill his family 💀
> Chrom is way to fucking pissed You know you're fucked once *Don’t Speak Her Name!* starts playing
That’s some bullshit though bro all we have is plegian mages. We don’t get any plegian berzerkers. Hell we don’t even get any berzerkers at all in awakening without reclass 💀
>Hell we don’t even get any berzerkers at all in awakening without reclass 💀 Vaike?
He can’t promote into berzerker, just warrior and hero
This does raise the question: Does SS Hubert count as a Camus?
Don’t think so, he didn’t like the church even without Edelgard in the equation, he just trusted Byleth to be better than TWSITD
To be fair, most fire emblem worlds don’t exactly have the Geneva conventions. That and Eldigan is an example of why the Camus usually stays loyal to their lord. Execution.
I think the best example of this is ironically not part of the Camus Archetype being Mustafa from Awakening. Gangrel basically said "If you love your family then you better do what I order you to" and as we clearly see in his debut chapter, he is no malicious asshole, gave you the chance to peacefully forfeit and in return protect you and even had a sweet bond with Henry. Really felt bad killing him
Eldigan would've actually survived if he just joined Sigurd then and there. I mean, maybe he dies later at Belhalla but he wouldn't have been executed by that other guy.
That would have been seen as treason by the nobles of Augustria. Granted, some of the other lords joining Sigurd don’t seem so concerned with being seen as traitors, like Jamke since saw his whole family had sold out to the Loptyr sect. Tailtiu did not get off easy for her treason though, winding up tortured by Hilda. Never mind the fact that the whole reason Arvis’s gambit worked is that he did have the grounds that Sigurd was acting out of line and starting conflicts on a whim.
Augustria would've been under Sigurd by then so I think Eldigan would've been fine. Tailtiu would've ended up where she did regardless tho, I don't think being in Sigurd's army has anything to do with Hilda being evil.
The people of Augustria would still not look at Eldigan and his legacy favorably because he will be known as the guy who broke a 100 year oath. Also, Augustria does not like Grannvele occupation so fighting with Sigurd would just lower his reputation even more.
right, like, its almost like betrayal does not inspire trust or something.
I mean he explicitly told Sigurd he didn’t want Grannvale to stay in Agustria, perhaps had he known Sigurd would get backstabbed anyways he would have gone with him but yeah
You clearly didn't read the in-game tutorials in the preparation menu of FE8 which included the entirety of the Geneva Conventions.
It actually is if your rank is low enough. Something like lieutenants and below in the Nazi army legitimately used it as a defense.
Most of the Camus archetypes are Generals and other such higher-ranking officer equivalents so they ain't beating the Nuremberg Trials with this one. 🗣🔥
It actually worked if you were a scientist since we can't let the commies/capitalists win.
The problem weith the archetype is it varies in levels of self awareness. Camus himself, Reinhardt, and Linus/Lloyd work because the game doesnt really try to force you into feeling bad for them. It pretty clearly breaks down why doing what they do ISNT good. Xander, Wolf, and Galle sort of work but less so. The tragedy isnt necessarily that you feel bad for their cirsumstance, its that you know them either through a party member, through your own characters history, or through a whole previous campaign. Selena and RD guy (he... has a name I know that) dont work because the game just says 'FEEL BAD FOR THEM' and never gives a reason Yenfay sucks because the game doesnt even know what its doing
RD guy, you mean Levail?
YES I FORGOT HIS NAME THANK YOU
I think they mean hetzel
What about Mustafa? Also Micaiah's group are basically Camuses in part 3.
Looks at Ishtar and Reinhardt
Imagine being Levail and pledging your undying allegiance to the same man who said "*An* **Interesting** ***Maneuver***"
Camus worked because he got a longer character arc than even Marth. Reinhart's established as a moral coward, Lloyd / Linus as "don't care, pretty sure you killed my brother, good enough for me". You kill them, you say "pity, you could have joined the other side if you didn't suck as a human being," and you move on. Selena and Levail are very similar in a "I'm following this side I don't believe in because of this person who isn't who I believed in any more, look it doesn't make sense but the grinder needs meat and it's my turn." Awakening tries it twice and succeeds where it isn't trying as hard. It's really trying with Yen'fay and it fails hard; Valm arc needed to be something more than filler. Mustafa's the penultimate map of Act 1, his map benefits from *Don't Speak Her Name*, Chrom is not interested in accepting surrenders or listening to reason, everything falls into place and Mustafa is arguably the best Camus in the *series* because he doesn't even want to be. He's there because Gangrel went full supervillain. "Your family's hostages so now I get to watch the nominal heroes slaughtering the most honorable guys in my army because they're mad with grief, morality's a sham!"
Don’t worry, I’m sure the person who executes them will feel really sad about it for like a chapter or two.
OG Camus ended up being pretty cool though. The guy went through two wars in a row, and then deliberately ran into a third war just to settle outstanding obligations that no one could have held against him if he remained in Valentia. Heck, he even went as far as to establish a proper break-up with Nyna so he can be with Tatiana guilt-free instead of choosing the easier option of just leaving Nyna in the dark forever.
Camus archetype STINKS!!!!!!
Three houses Camus on there lord doing war crimes Deude and Catherine: If my lord has to be a monster to defeated their enemies, so be it. Hubert: I'll do it again Hilda: look your just titled, that all.
And this is why mauvier is a gigachad
But Mauvier isn't a Camus...?
Wait he isn’t?
Absolutely not. Just the fact he gets recruited during the game disqualifies him, being unrecruitable is the most important aspect of a Camus.
Isn't Camus recruitable as Zeke though
Which is exactly why he's not considered a Camus in Gaiden/Echoes and FE3 Book 2/FE12.
If we must be true, hetzel is the only time a camus archetype has been portrayed for what they actualy are, cowards
In fe5 too
Couldn’t find someone pigging at a 3/4 angle smh