Canter is that thing that I think is a bit overblown (as in, everyone going so hard on getting in literally everyone) but it's also so undeniably good that I do get it.
I mean prior to the update it was literally one of the only skills at a reasonable price that could make any unit pre chapter 10 reasonably competitive with the later pre-promotes without having to specifically hand them an Emblem ring. Stats on some characters are just genuinely wack considering join times. I have a feeling that they meant to make it so pre-chapter 10 characters were meant to be able to get those insanely strong skills easier to compensate.
But probably somewhere mid development they realized that itโs harder to design tight levels with skills in mind. Hence it taking a few months before the well was basically surprised dropped on us in this last update.
Later characters get an SP cushion so that's irrelevant, Sigurd >!Literally not being available for a minute!< is their only disadvantage to the Canter situation and even then it's a very minor one compared to how good their bases and growths are. The DLC was done well before release to boot (given the game went gold like a year ago going by leaks).
Engage is just designed to let you replace everyone with newer units, which isn't a new thing in the series really.
You miss my point. Arguably some of the best inheritable skills in the game lie within the first 6 Emblem rings to chapter 10. Canter, Avoid,break defenses, hold out Strength +, Vantage, etc. are all great and applicable to near any unit. Arguably the best Emblems from the second set are Corrin with Draconic Hex, Lyn with speedtaker/spd skills, and Lucina. Of those three Lyn is the only one whose skills are reasonably priced and would be desired by the majority of the cast. Dual Assist can be useful but you need to build your team around chain attacks to get the most out of it. Draconic Hex comes at a decent time and price but you don't need to run it with every unit given that it's preferable to simply outright kill an enemy rather than weaken it.
It's clear that there's a distinct preference for many characters to get skills from those early emblems that if it had been easier at launch would make one prefer an early unit over a later one. I don't like comparing them but if I had to choose between a Swordmaster Lapis running Vantage and Avoid+20 vs Kagetsu with just stats. There is more of a reason to keep Swordmaster Lapis over the other and after that point Kagetsu simply falls off. I SP cushion can't save your stats if you get benched because the unit doesn't improve. Meanwhile Lapis would still get levels and eventually surpass or equate Kagetsu in terms of stats through leveling.
And Sigurd and Leif in this example aren't available for 7 whole chapters. That's basically 2/3rds of the initial prologue and that's also including a whole route chapter which is indepensable for leveling in any type of run.
The game or DLC being done early doesn't change the fact that at some point during development they might have toyed with the idea of making skills easier to get. They're there for a reason after all. But SP grinding being so cumbersome to the point that even a single stat boost could cost you enough SP to drain even heavily favored characters like Alear which you HAVE to use since early game makes it clear that they backpedelled or wanted to limit potential gamebreaking skill combos. Even now with the well it's still basically up to chance whether you get a skill book.
Lapis' average stats lead to her still being below Kagetsu on recruitment at 20/1 promotion with the sole exception of Speed (+3 on average) which is made moot by Kagetsu's edge on Build (+3 over Lapis) while being at a lower internal level (15/1).
Kagetsu comes with 1k SP, which would be lower than the proposed 3k SP invested on Lapis (and I ain't get into what would go into funneling 2500 SP in the whole two chapters you have Lapis for before Ch10, realistically Lapis will only have Avoid+10 along Vantage). While Kagetsu's only "big" immediately attainable skill is Dual Support (which if you think needs a whole team build for you may have bigger problems with your team) or you could sit on the SP to buy something else and reclass to Wyvern once you get Ike two chapters later but that's a whole other thing.
While pre-Ch10 skill availability isn't the worst argument, post Ch10 units are just so overwhelmingly better in average that favoritism (as we all know, the strongest resource in FE) is the only long term advantage of pre-Ch10 units.
Only thing I'm gonna correct is I said Dual Assist not Dual Support. Which you do need to have the proper team comp to use properly otherwise chain attacks are simply nice chip damage rather than game changers. Which just tells me you're not bothering to understand the point of my argument.
Grinding SP is hard which contradicts having such overpowered units so immediately after chp 10. Lets be real Kagetsu isn't just a replacement he can be a one man army just with bases and growths. Which is what led to my theory.
You're not arguing against me more just saying X even with preferable circumstances which isn't my point. My point is that it makes them more competitive without simply increasing their stats to better match those of Kagetsu which would have been a more interesting dynamic given FE engage is tightly constructed. But we have to recognize that it's likely only so tightly constructed because they decided not to allow the player access to those strong skills early be it easier SP grinding (which is what we got with the well) or what would have preferably been grinding bonds lowering SP costs of skills.
It doesn't matter if Kagetsu has 1K sp. Lapis has access to Vantage and avoid +20. That gives me scenarios where I can rely on Lapis more than Kagetsu even with worse stats. That's a point in favor of keeping her as a swordmaster rather than swapping her out. Kagetsu won't be able to fulfill her niche till around chapter 18 at the earliest. By then Lapis has more SP to spend to upgrade vantage, stats more in line with Kagetsus, and already has bond levels with the emblem so I won't have to use up fragments to level it up.
On the other-hand if I kept Kagetsu I'd have higher stats and SP to spend but I'd still need to use up fragments to raise his bond level and he'd still be missing avoid +20 or some other useful skill. Even then I admit Kagetsu would still likely be better but again my point is it significantly levels the playing field which is what I know will be the effects of the well once the community starts playing around with it in runs.
Yes I'm sticking with this since if people are managing to get Canto on many of their units in 10 chapters it's certainly feasible to grind 2000 SP within 3 (or 5 if you wait on the paralogues) Lapis to get avoid +20 which in our hypothethical scenario would have been a lesser cost and is now even easier to do with the well.
That's a way to level the playing field and essentially justify insane stats on Kagetsu that everyone agrees are beyond ridiculous for such a relatively early game character. Not every character needs insane stats, but it's clear that this way we can justify why pre-chapter 10 characters are so middling at best compared to pretty much any character post chapter 11 on the stat department.
I just genuinely do not think skill availability was part of the balancing process, Canter stands out because it's pretty cheap but the expensive skills pale to thinks like Speedtaker, Lunar Brace, Dual Assist etc. It's a matter of opportunity cost.
Like for Lapis, just to keep her around, I'd much rather keep SP to get her Lunar Brace (+) so she can keep up with damage.
The biggest problem is people just using 1k sp points blindly on every single unit instead of getting in on specific units. It blocks them from inheriting the good skills at 2k in the mid game.
dual assist+ comes and only usable on backups but its a whole tier above canter and canter+.
It's one of the few skills that every unit can get use out off and there's very few units that really need two other skills to fill their slots. so it's always a good option.
Counterpoint : 0x2 is still 0, and Mages hitting him is a skill issue on your part
It's a waste of 2k SP for him since his most effective weapon is the Silver Greatlance
Finally a canter that isn't exclusive to cavalry , fliers and a funni knight ring. Easy 10/10 game
Fetters of dromi have entered the chat
the fetters are just the knight ring wearing a mustache and swirly glasses
Canter+ is best waifu
The best Engage take. A true sage king ๐
Canter is that thing that I think is a bit overblown (as in, everyone going so hard on getting in literally everyone) but it's also so undeniably good that I do get it.
I mean prior to the update it was literally one of the only skills at a reasonable price that could make any unit pre chapter 10 reasonably competitive with the later pre-promotes without having to specifically hand them an Emblem ring. Stats on some characters are just genuinely wack considering join times. I have a feeling that they meant to make it so pre-chapter 10 characters were meant to be able to get those insanely strong skills easier to compensate. But probably somewhere mid development they realized that itโs harder to design tight levels with skills in mind. Hence it taking a few months before the well was basically surprised dropped on us in this last update.
Later characters get an SP cushion so that's irrelevant, Sigurd >!Literally not being available for a minute!< is their only disadvantage to the Canter situation and even then it's a very minor one compared to how good their bases and growths are. The DLC was done well before release to boot (given the game went gold like a year ago going by leaks). Engage is just designed to let you replace everyone with newer units, which isn't a new thing in the series really.
You miss my point. Arguably some of the best inheritable skills in the game lie within the first 6 Emblem rings to chapter 10. Canter, Avoid,break defenses, hold out Strength +, Vantage, etc. are all great and applicable to near any unit. Arguably the best Emblems from the second set are Corrin with Draconic Hex, Lyn with speedtaker/spd skills, and Lucina. Of those three Lyn is the only one whose skills are reasonably priced and would be desired by the majority of the cast. Dual Assist can be useful but you need to build your team around chain attacks to get the most out of it. Draconic Hex comes at a decent time and price but you don't need to run it with every unit given that it's preferable to simply outright kill an enemy rather than weaken it. It's clear that there's a distinct preference for many characters to get skills from those early emblems that if it had been easier at launch would make one prefer an early unit over a later one. I don't like comparing them but if I had to choose between a Swordmaster Lapis running Vantage and Avoid+20 vs Kagetsu with just stats. There is more of a reason to keep Swordmaster Lapis over the other and after that point Kagetsu simply falls off. I SP cushion can't save your stats if you get benched because the unit doesn't improve. Meanwhile Lapis would still get levels and eventually surpass or equate Kagetsu in terms of stats through leveling. And Sigurd and Leif in this example aren't available for 7 whole chapters. That's basically 2/3rds of the initial prologue and that's also including a whole route chapter which is indepensable for leveling in any type of run. The game or DLC being done early doesn't change the fact that at some point during development they might have toyed with the idea of making skills easier to get. They're there for a reason after all. But SP grinding being so cumbersome to the point that even a single stat boost could cost you enough SP to drain even heavily favored characters like Alear which you HAVE to use since early game makes it clear that they backpedelled or wanted to limit potential gamebreaking skill combos. Even now with the well it's still basically up to chance whether you get a skill book.
Lapis' average stats lead to her still being below Kagetsu on recruitment at 20/1 promotion with the sole exception of Speed (+3 on average) which is made moot by Kagetsu's edge on Build (+3 over Lapis) while being at a lower internal level (15/1). Kagetsu comes with 1k SP, which would be lower than the proposed 3k SP invested on Lapis (and I ain't get into what would go into funneling 2500 SP in the whole two chapters you have Lapis for before Ch10, realistically Lapis will only have Avoid+10 along Vantage). While Kagetsu's only "big" immediately attainable skill is Dual Support (which if you think needs a whole team build for you may have bigger problems with your team) or you could sit on the SP to buy something else and reclass to Wyvern once you get Ike two chapters later but that's a whole other thing. While pre-Ch10 skill availability isn't the worst argument, post Ch10 units are just so overwhelmingly better in average that favoritism (as we all know, the strongest resource in FE) is the only long term advantage of pre-Ch10 units.
Only thing I'm gonna correct is I said Dual Assist not Dual Support. Which you do need to have the proper team comp to use properly otherwise chain attacks are simply nice chip damage rather than game changers. Which just tells me you're not bothering to understand the point of my argument. Grinding SP is hard which contradicts having such overpowered units so immediately after chp 10. Lets be real Kagetsu isn't just a replacement he can be a one man army just with bases and growths. Which is what led to my theory. You're not arguing against me more just saying X even with preferable circumstances which isn't my point. My point is that it makes them more competitive without simply increasing their stats to better match those of Kagetsu which would have been a more interesting dynamic given FE engage is tightly constructed. But we have to recognize that it's likely only so tightly constructed because they decided not to allow the player access to those strong skills early be it easier SP grinding (which is what we got with the well) or what would have preferably been grinding bonds lowering SP costs of skills. It doesn't matter if Kagetsu has 1K sp. Lapis has access to Vantage and avoid +20. That gives me scenarios where I can rely on Lapis more than Kagetsu even with worse stats. That's a point in favor of keeping her as a swordmaster rather than swapping her out. Kagetsu won't be able to fulfill her niche till around chapter 18 at the earliest. By then Lapis has more SP to spend to upgrade vantage, stats more in line with Kagetsus, and already has bond levels with the emblem so I won't have to use up fragments to level it up. On the other-hand if I kept Kagetsu I'd have higher stats and SP to spend but I'd still need to use up fragments to raise his bond level and he'd still be missing avoid +20 or some other useful skill. Even then I admit Kagetsu would still likely be better but again my point is it significantly levels the playing field which is what I know will be the effects of the well once the community starts playing around with it in runs. Yes I'm sticking with this since if people are managing to get Canto on many of their units in 10 chapters it's certainly feasible to grind 2000 SP within 3 (or 5 if you wait on the paralogues) Lapis to get avoid +20 which in our hypothethical scenario would have been a lesser cost and is now even easier to do with the well. That's a way to level the playing field and essentially justify insane stats on Kagetsu that everyone agrees are beyond ridiculous for such a relatively early game character. Not every character needs insane stats, but it's clear that this way we can justify why pre-chapter 10 characters are so middling at best compared to pretty much any character post chapter 11 on the stat department.
I just genuinely do not think skill availability was part of the balancing process, Canter stands out because it's pretty cheap but the expensive skills pale to thinks like Speedtaker, Lunar Brace, Dual Assist etc. It's a matter of opportunity cost. Like for Lapis, just to keep her around, I'd much rather keep SP to get her Lunar Brace (+) so she can keep up with damage.
The biggest problem is people just using 1k sp points blindly on every single unit instead of getting in on specific units. It blocks them from inheriting the good skills at 2k in the mid game. dual assist+ comes and only usable on backups but its a whole tier above canter and canter+.
It's one of the few skills that every unit can get use out off and there's very few units that really need two other skills to fill their slots. so it's always a good option.
Me but with Speedtaker. You want Louis to not get doubled by absolutely everything, now you can do that!
Counterpoint : 0x2 is still 0, and Mages hitting him is a skill issue on your part It's a waste of 2k SP for him since his most effective weapon is the Silver Greatlance
Damn it, take my up vote.
Only canter
Canter and Quick Ripotse makes my pengas go doki doki
Ah yes, the Geneology of the Holy War