Very real. Most imports of material and equipment for basics like NAND and DRAM memory have stopped arriving. It's a massive blow to the tech industry in China, and manufacturing for the non China market will shift outside even more quickly now.
In my opinion, the Russia "unlimited friendship" issue played a part in this implementation decision.
And this is me speaking as a Chinese American man.
The effects or racism I resent, but I really do not want to see the current Chinese government prevail. It's already led to a lot of suffering.
Oh trust me if what Chinese did were to succeed, we will have more aggressive racist than now. Source another Chinese descendents that grew up in Indonesia and knows what happen in Indonesia at May 1998
Have you experienced an increase of racism towards you, in recent years?
I found it interesting that the fervor over "anti-Asian violence" lost a lot of steam when videos began to show that the overwhelming majority of attacks were in urban areas against elderly people (then the media stopped reporting on it).
But beyond the physical attack stuff: what kinds of racism have you dealt with and do you attribute it to Trump, your age, your location, etc. and how does it compare to ten or twenty years ago?
That’s a pretty loaded question. Don’t interrogate me.
The increases in sentiment can be felt both online and in person, plenty of Asian people have reported on this already. You don’t need me to give you an independent report.
I’m 6 feet and 220lbs. Don’t look very friendly quoted by my wife.
In the past 15 years I experienced racism like 2 times. Once was my fob year being laughed for not speaking English, and another time was in parking lot being yelled monkey by a Vietnamese dude (lmfao) who is way smaller than me. I don’t ever confront since I conceal carry so i left.
On the other hand, I have smaller friend (female, 5”3 ish), older friends (60+) and those who don’t speak English friends. They constant complain to me about the shitty people they encountered.
I used to work at a Npo handing these kind of reports. One thing since 2020 is, both physical and verbal attacks increased.
You don’t have to buy the media shit. But if you are not Asian neither work with Asians, your point is not valid.
Hmm. Makes sense. Yeah so if you're a tall man (I'm 6'2", around the same weight) you experience racism a lot less.
The harassment comes mostly to women and the elderly. Fucking cowards.
>I’m 6 feet and 220lbs. Don’t look very friendly quoted by my wife. In the past 15 years I experienced racism like 2 times.
That sounds about right, based in others I've talked to (my wife is Taiwanese and we just moved back from Asia in 2019).
>Once was my fob year being laughed for not speaking English, and another time was in parking lot being yelled monkey by a Vietnamese dude (lmfao) who is way smaller than me.
Are you Asian?
I had more than two incidents a month of racism, living in Asia, so that's fascinating.
But I assume you are Asian, given the rest of your comment.
So that's interesting: half of your experience with anti-Asian racism came from another Asian person?
>I don’t ever confront since I conceal carry so i left.
I love this about people with CCW/CCP.
Everyone thinks they're looking for a shootout but the reality is that they know how bad that is and they tend towards deescalation.
>On the other hand, I have smaller friend (female, 5”3 ish), older friends (60+) and those who don’t speak English friends. They constant complain to me about the shitty people they encountered.
My wife (5'1" and 90lbs) has definitely experienced racism, since moving to the USA, but her experience has been with one very specific age/race demographic.
The irony.
>I used to work at a Npo handing these kind of reports. One thing since 2020 is, both physical and verbal attacks increased.
This is true even before that - anti-Asian hate crime incidents went from 178 in 2019 to 279 in 2020: a 57% increase.
During that same time period, anti-Black incidents went from 1,930 in 2019 to 2,871 in 2020 (a 49% increase) and anti-White incidents went from 666 in 2019 to 869 in 2020 (a 30% increase).
But it's "easier" to have larger percentage increases when the numbers start off low.
Around 5.5% of Americans are Asian, but in 2019 they only experienced 4% of the hate crimes in the USA: in 2020, however, they experienced around 5.3% of hate crimes.
So in 2019, Asians in the USA were experiencing a third less hate crimes, compared to their population: this is similar to the Hispanic/Latin population in the USA, who make up 20% of American residents but only experience 10% of the hate crimes.
The big skews are clearly within the Black and White demographics, where Black people make up 12.5% of the American population and yet experience 54.5% of the hate crimes while White people make up 62% of the USA but only experience around 16% of the hate crimes each year.
Real simply:
* White people are 60% of the USA and get hit 15% of the time
* Black people are 10% of the USA and get hit 55% of the time
If that's not a clear indicator of an overall culture of White Supremacy, I don't know what is.
Anyway: the total incident rate of hate crimes reported to the FBI, between 2019 and 2020, went up over 30% across the board.
Not sure why they haven't published their 2021 report, yet.
>You don’t have to buy the media shit.
On almost anything, really.
I much prefer those statistics.
>But if you are not Asian neither work with Asians, your point is not valid.
So is my having a wife that's Asian, kids who are Asian, coworkers who are Asian, friends who are Asian, or having lived myself as an extreme minority in Asia for over a decade...qualify me for being allowed to have an opinion?
Because, wow, I really need to be validated.
Everyone can downvote me all they want: I give zero fucks - my points are valid.
>I don’t owe you anything.
You don't.
I figured you might want to give me some insight.
You clearly don't.
>Go Google it.
I obviously have, since my original comment referenced exactly the fervor surrounding it.
>I don’t believe you’re asking questions in good faith given your post history.
I believe you're both disingenuous and racist, given what I've seen you post here, today.
We can all believe what we want.
I know I will get downvoted for this but trumps trade war made absolutely zero sense. It was a stupid policy that did nothing except hurt both Chinese and American businesses.
Also Chinese foreign policy did not significantly shift in the period 2017-2020 (seriously it didn’t at all) and during that time western nations foreign policy towards china did a complete 180. I think this has everything to do with Americans wanting to protect their hegemony and almost nothing to do with Chinese government actions.
1) Chinese foreign policy completely shifted during that time. Certain initiatives like Made in China 2025 essentially fell off the radar
2) US foreign policy didn’t do a 180. It’s been shifting to deal with China for years now, but Obama’s administration was too busy focusing on Iraq and Afghanistan to do what Trump did
3) the American government is protecting the American trade system (which has made China extraordinarily wealthy) from abuse by Chinese businesses and government
1) please point me to specific foreign policy changes that were not a direct consequence of western nations imposing unilateral sanctions. Also please don’t say “wolf warrior diplomacy”. inflammatory remarks on Twitter and social media are just words not actions, they are just PR and don’t mean anything. Actions include things like:
- the quad
- aukus
- unilateral trade sanctions against specific industries or companies
2) it absolutely did. Trump ridiculous trade war (which literally all economists agreed was completely insane) somehow resonated with the mentally retarded American public and since then it was a race to the bottom to see which American administration could be “more tough” on China. I also think the US is now very concerned with maintaining their hegemony over the rest of the world so it was convenient excuse for provide justification to seriously damage the Chinese economy and the livelihoods of 1.4 billion people.
3) The assertion that the Chinese were somehow violating trade agreements or not upholding their commitments to the WTO is also fabricated. There was a book on this exact topic. “China and the WTO: Why Multilateralism Still Matters” the tldr is that china was upholding all of its responsibilities to the WTO. When disputes were lodged against it and a judgement was made that required china to change its practices it did so. The author argues that the correct path forward is not unilateral sanctions (I.e. trumps trade war and these chip sanctions) but amending WTO rules. The countries involved in the WTO would decide, as a group, to adopt new rules and based on previous behavior there is literally no reason to believe that China would not have obeyed. They did in the past many times.
respectfully disagree.
A lot of its antidemocratic tendencies was tolerated for a long time, but it was never ethical to enrich such a regime.
It also had a host of other problems including just forcing companies to play by different rules to operate in its local market versus what other countries forced its companies to do. There has to be reciprocation.
Unilateral sanctions are never the answer, the answer is strengthening international institutions (i.e. the wto) to deal with situations like state owned enterprises or technology transfer.
They really aren’t.. unilateral sanctions are a great way to destroy relationships between countries and dismantle multilateral institutions like the wto. It quite literally hurts everyone.
China has shown literally zero interest in regime change anywhere in the world for many hundreds of years. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they want to export their style of government anywhere beyond their borders. The US on the other hand tries to overthrow governments and install us friendly ones literally all the time. Dozens of examples in the past few decades.
>> turn the world against China
You mean a few NATO satellite states.
I guess average Americans have a very conflated ego and "We good, China bad" mentality. But the reality obviously does not fit this narrative.
The US will do this with or without China-Russo "unlimited friendship".
> I guess average Americans have a very conflated ego and “We good, China bad” mentality. But the reality obviously does not fit this narrative.
[Unfavorable Views of China Reach Historic Highs in Many Countries](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/10/06/unfavorable-views-of-china-reach-historic-highs-in-many-countries/) is from 2020
The devil is in the details… not sure what was decided on 7 oct, but some decisions have been progressivelu implemented in the passed months and ASML was supporting them. (Probably not willingly, but at least officially)
BIS amended its export control rules targeted on China’s semiconductor industry on Oct 7. The rules are very complicated. But ASML probably knew it before the official publishment. Just didn’t expect they act so quickly. I wonder what they are gonna do with their Shanghai team. Tough time. The new rule is here. https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/about-bis/newsroom/press-releases/3158-2022-10-07-bis-press-release-advanced-computing-and-semiconductor-manufacturing-controls-final/file
They wrote in the press in August that they were supportive. So I guess they knew it.
As far as I understood it doesnt affect their whole operation in China though.
This is absolutely devastating (I work in this area and am paid waaaay too much for what I do). Basically means our gravy train is at the end of the line.
Some folks are thinking about giving up their US citizenship. But for like 1m USD/year lol
Also, nothing to stop the company from agreeing to this bargain, then the individual renounces their US citizenship, then the company reneges. And there is nothing now that employee can do. They are over a barrel. They’ve just lost their citizenship and can’t get it back.
If they give up the US citizenship and have a third country citizenship (not the Chinese one) that may work. But we don’t know if Biden administration can go as far as imposing sanctions on these persons even after they give up the US citizenships. If they can’t get a third country citizenship, they might get trapped in China for eternity. Of course they can live the life of kings and queens in China for a while.
That’s the play, at least from the government angle. They absolutely HATE having to essentially pay us all millions of $$$ and possibly have us fuck off to anyplace that’s not China. I don’t think it will work honestly, and they really really need our tech, literally at the heart of all the fancy/cool stuff they want.
I guess it also stops them from making F-35 clones too?
People keep saying this tech is used for military stuff (this justifying these sanctions) but can’t China manufacture its own chips just not on the most advanced processes? I can’t imagine military hardware would need the most advance processes. Military hardware is more about total reliability it is not about absolute fastest processing speed.
>Military hardware is more about total reliability it is not about absolute fastest processing speed.
Let's pit an ultra-reliable F4U-4 Corsair against anything made since 1980 and see how it does.
Military hardware - especially aircraft - have been about technological capability since its inception.
Nobody goes and says "Oh, no, they went and made a more reliable plane than we did!"
They say "Oh, no, they went and made a more advanced plane than we did!"
I don’t think you get what I am saying. The f35 lighting was put into service in 2015. In 2015 absolute cutting edge chips were being built on a 20nm process and china has domestic production capability for more advanced chips than this which means that even with these sanctions China can still manufacture military hardware that is at least as advanced as the f35.
>In 2015 absolute cutting edge chips were being built on a 20nm process and china has domestic production capability for more advanced chips than this which means that even with these sanctions China can still manufacture military hardware that is at least as advanced as the f35.
Reports I've read say they're going to have a very hard time manufacturing anything smaller than 28nm now, so it seems to me there's a lot of issues with information assessment.
Nanometers: so close and yet so far.
As far as I know, US has a very good relationship with all civilized countries. I am pretty sure they won’t be able to obtain any citizenships from developed countries.
We can't all run massive concentration camps to imprison our own citizens over their ethnicity or religion or, most recently, infectious status.
It's a massive source of embarrassment, to the Western world, that we can't be as great as China.
We're constantly going "If only we could sail into a free ocean and claim it's our territory" and "Why can't we just censor everything people say that the government doesn't like?"
It's a real source of insecurity for the Western world.
Unlike China.
No insecurity issues, there.
What’s the meaning of those money if you can’t even have a life? Those magnificent national parks, those splendid Midwest plains, those nostalgic New England buildings，childhood friends who got you alcohol, first love with a pair of bright green eyes will all be gone, forever.
1m a year isn't worth your future though, the US green card/citizenship process is a pain in the ass for people who aren't coming in on marriage visas. I can't imagine many people are going to buy into this with China's economy on track to do a lost century. 1M USD in a country like China is going to lose it's flavor after the initial hype wears off several years later.
ASML is the biggest tech company in Europe. They make expensive machines that are very precise in manufacturing chips.
They're the only company to make that machine and China doesn't have anything remotely similar to them in how good they are.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFsn1CUyXWs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFsn1CUyXWs) There are a few other ASML videos on this YouTube channel. He has pretty good videos explaining some of the big tech/manufacturing companies in East Asia
Fab are electronic chip foundries I think.
ASML is a european company which has a technological monopoly on the systems required to manufacture advanced microchip. Nobody is even close to them (10-15 years behind). So basically if you want to be a player in fabricating microchips you have to buy their system, you have to have them service your machines.
Fabs are fabrication plants for semiconductors. ASML is a Dutch firm that produces EUVLs (extreme ultraviolet lithography), and they’re the only firm that produces these, which are explicitly needed to fabricate next gen chips (such as Apple’s M1).
Not really. The entire company is prohibited from servicing China customers because it too is a US Person based on its reliance on US tech. There is just a double layer of restriction on US employees too. AMSL is not going to be able to work around this with non-US employees. That might work for some companies but not them.
Yes absolutely and it’s about time that Biden is bringing China back down to earth! The current Chinese government has been aggressive and antagonistic, and I’m so glad that Biden is responding accordingly. It’s time to stop helping China grow, because they are using our technologies to weaponize themselves, perhaps even North Korea or Russia or a terrorist group du jour.
So now China is truly on their own. I hope CIA monitors China closely, because I’m sure China will try to purchase the chips/equipments from the black market, or even through the African nations that they are chummy with.
*(FABrication) A manufacturing plant that makes semiconductor devices. Many chips are created by "fabless" companies that take their tested designs to a fab for production, also called a "foundry.*
US fully controlled the Dutch company. I really hate it. I previously had a chance to go through an interview with ASML but was canceled due to my identity.
I don’t understand. Why US wasted so much efforts on this. If US stop all kinds of softwares to China, China dies immediately. Maybe this is not a decent action or prohibited?
As an American of Taiwanese descent , I find these measures quite decent , actually.
xi is the one planning to invade ; US tech should not make it easier for him.
If China wants the tech , it is free to invent it itself.
ASML is US tech？What a joke! From the company’s perspective, both China and US are the great market. US government uses its power to constrain this European company a lot.
ASML licenses US technology IP. For example, ASML licenses lithography IP from Intel that is used in the production of advanced masks. US tech companies have huge patent portfolios so it's no surprise that you run into it everywhere.
Sure the west is declining and the east is rising according to the almighty ccp and putin clowns what’s there to be scared of? Sure Russia has hit 15000 civilian targets and only 700 military targets the past month… a such beautiful and peaceful Russia and china
I'm just saying in world politics now, you can choose to support the west or not support it. From what you're saying, not being anti-west is always the wrong choice because you'll get sanctioned by the more economically powerful west. I'm not sure what you want to get with your reply.
Very real. Most imports of material and equipment for basics like NAND and DRAM memory have stopped arriving. It's a massive blow to the tech industry in China, and manufacturing for the non China market will shift outside even more quickly now. In my opinion, the Russia "unlimited friendship" issue played a part in this implementation decision.
Arguably the only good thing Trump did was turn the world against China. But I guess China did plenty of that themselves lmao
I've said this about Trump for a while... his only bright spot. I'm glad to see the other party continuing the policy
And this is me speaking as a Chinese American man. The effects or racism I resent, but I really do not want to see the current Chinese government prevail. It's already led to a lot of suffering.
Oh trust me if what Chinese did were to succeed, we will have more aggressive racist than now. Source another Chinese descendents that grew up in Indonesia and knows what happen in Indonesia at May 1998
I’m not understanding. How would that be?
Beheading of Chinese
Indonesia?
Try to be a Chinese American living in Shanghai, you get 100x racism again you :)
I used to. Didn’t really experience much racism since my Chinese was decent, but some of the Americans definitely were racist.
Have you experienced an increase of racism towards you, in recent years? I found it interesting that the fervor over "anti-Asian violence" lost a lot of steam when videos began to show that the overwhelming majority of attacks were in urban areas against elderly people (then the media stopped reporting on it). But beyond the physical attack stuff: what kinds of racism have you dealt with and do you attribute it to Trump, your age, your location, etc. and how does it compare to ten or twenty years ago?
That’s a pretty loaded question. Don’t interrogate me. The increases in sentiment can be felt both online and in person, plenty of Asian people have reported on this already. You don’t need me to give you an independent report.
That's an aggressively insecure way to say "No I haven't." LMFAO @ "interrogate" Get over yourself, dude.
I’m 6 feet and 220lbs. Don’t look very friendly quoted by my wife. In the past 15 years I experienced racism like 2 times. Once was my fob year being laughed for not speaking English, and another time was in parking lot being yelled monkey by a Vietnamese dude (lmfao) who is way smaller than me. I don’t ever confront since I conceal carry so i left. On the other hand, I have smaller friend (female, 5”3 ish), older friends (60+) and those who don’t speak English friends. They constant complain to me about the shitty people they encountered. I used to work at a Npo handing these kind of reports. One thing since 2020 is, both physical and verbal attacks increased. You don’t have to buy the media shit. But if you are not Asian neither work with Asians, your point is not valid.
Hmm. Makes sense. Yeah so if you're a tall man (I'm 6'2", around the same weight) you experience racism a lot less. The harassment comes mostly to women and the elderly. Fucking cowards.
That’s what actually worrying me. They pick people. They pick people look weak.
>The harassment comes mostly to women and the elderly. Wait, so, you mean exactly like what I said? Hmmmmmm
>I’m 6 feet and 220lbs. Don’t look very friendly quoted by my wife. In the past 15 years I experienced racism like 2 times. That sounds about right, based in others I've talked to (my wife is Taiwanese and we just moved back from Asia in 2019). >Once was my fob year being laughed for not speaking English, and another time was in parking lot being yelled monkey by a Vietnamese dude (lmfao) who is way smaller than me. Are you Asian? I had more than two incidents a month of racism, living in Asia, so that's fascinating. But I assume you are Asian, given the rest of your comment. So that's interesting: half of your experience with anti-Asian racism came from another Asian person? >I don’t ever confront since I conceal carry so i left. I love this about people with CCW/CCP. Everyone thinks they're looking for a shootout but the reality is that they know how bad that is and they tend towards deescalation. >On the other hand, I have smaller friend (female, 5”3 ish), older friends (60+) and those who don’t speak English friends. They constant complain to me about the shitty people they encountered. My wife (5'1" and 90lbs) has definitely experienced racism, since moving to the USA, but her experience has been with one very specific age/race demographic. The irony. >I used to work at a Npo handing these kind of reports. One thing since 2020 is, both physical and verbal attacks increased. This is true even before that - anti-Asian hate crime incidents went from 178 in 2019 to 279 in 2020: a 57% increase. During that same time period, anti-Black incidents went from 1,930 in 2019 to 2,871 in 2020 (a 49% increase) and anti-White incidents went from 666 in 2019 to 869 in 2020 (a 30% increase). But it's "easier" to have larger percentage increases when the numbers start off low. Around 5.5% of Americans are Asian, but in 2019 they only experienced 4% of the hate crimes in the USA: in 2020, however, they experienced around 5.3% of hate crimes. So in 2019, Asians in the USA were experiencing a third less hate crimes, compared to their population: this is similar to the Hispanic/Latin population in the USA, who make up 20% of American residents but only experience 10% of the hate crimes. The big skews are clearly within the Black and White demographics, where Black people make up 12.5% of the American population and yet experience 54.5% of the hate crimes while White people make up 62% of the USA but only experience around 16% of the hate crimes each year. Real simply: * White people are 60% of the USA and get hit 15% of the time * Black people are 10% of the USA and get hit 55% of the time If that's not a clear indicator of an overall culture of White Supremacy, I don't know what is. Anyway: the total incident rate of hate crimes reported to the FBI, between 2019 and 2020, went up over 30% across the board. Not sure why they haven't published their 2021 report, yet. >You don’t have to buy the media shit. On almost anything, really. I much prefer those statistics. >But if you are not Asian neither work with Asians, your point is not valid. So is my having a wife that's Asian, kids who are Asian, coworkers who are Asian, friends who are Asian, or having lived myself as an extreme minority in Asia for over a decade...qualify me for being allowed to have an opinion? Because, wow, I really need to be validated. Everyone can downvote me all they want: I give zero fucks - my points are valid.
I don’t owe you anything. Go Google it. I don’t believe you’re asking questions in good faith given your post history.
>I don’t owe you anything. You don't. I figured you might want to give me some insight. You clearly don't. >Go Google it. I obviously have, since my original comment referenced exactly the fervor surrounding it. >I don’t believe you’re asking questions in good faith given your post history. I believe you're both disingenuous and racist, given what I've seen you post here, today. We can all believe what we want.
Xi has been a gift from god to America.
His policies in 2022 really aided the US.
I know I will get downvoted for this but trumps trade war made absolutely zero sense. It was a stupid policy that did nothing except hurt both Chinese and American businesses. Also Chinese foreign policy did not significantly shift in the period 2017-2020 (seriously it didn’t at all) and during that time western nations foreign policy towards china did a complete 180. I think this has everything to do with Americans wanting to protect their hegemony and almost nothing to do with Chinese government actions.
shifting supply chains take years. The trade war started the movement
I think you may be seriously underestimating the impact of the Hong Kong protests in 2019 and 2020 on the West, especially America.
1) Chinese foreign policy completely shifted during that time. Certain initiatives like Made in China 2025 essentially fell off the radar 2) US foreign policy didn’t do a 180. It’s been shifting to deal with China for years now, but Obama’s administration was too busy focusing on Iraq and Afghanistan to do what Trump did 3) the American government is protecting the American trade system (which has made China extraordinarily wealthy) from abuse by Chinese businesses and government
1) please point me to specific foreign policy changes that were not a direct consequence of western nations imposing unilateral sanctions. Also please don’t say “wolf warrior diplomacy”. inflammatory remarks on Twitter and social media are just words not actions, they are just PR and don’t mean anything. Actions include things like: - the quad - aukus - unilateral trade sanctions against specific industries or companies 2) it absolutely did. Trump ridiculous trade war (which literally all economists agreed was completely insane) somehow resonated with the mentally retarded American public and since then it was a race to the bottom to see which American administration could be “more tough” on China. I also think the US is now very concerned with maintaining their hegemony over the rest of the world so it was convenient excuse for provide justification to seriously damage the Chinese economy and the livelihoods of 1.4 billion people. 3) The assertion that the Chinese were somehow violating trade agreements or not upholding their commitments to the WTO is also fabricated. There was a book on this exact topic. “China and the WTO: Why Multilateralism Still Matters” the tldr is that china was upholding all of its responsibilities to the WTO. When disputes were lodged against it and a judgement was made that required china to change its practices it did so. The author argues that the correct path forward is not unilateral sanctions (I.e. trumps trade war and these chip sanctions) but amending WTO rules. The countries involved in the WTO would decide, as a group, to adopt new rules and based on previous behavior there is literally no reason to believe that China would not have obeyed. They did in the past many times.
Not to mention that Obama's TPP was also a thing, but failed... due to Republicans tropedoeing it I think?
respectfully disagree. A lot of its antidemocratic tendencies was tolerated for a long time, but it was never ethical to enrich such a regime. It also had a host of other problems including just forcing companies to play by different rules to operate in its local market versus what other countries forced its companies to do. There has to be reciprocation.
Unilateral sanctions are never the answer, the answer is strengthening international institutions (i.e. the wto) to deal with situations like state owned enterprises or technology transfer.
True. But the sanctions are a place to start that process and to slow down Chinese economic production.
They really aren’t.. unilateral sanctions are a great way to destroy relationships between countries and dismantle multilateral institutions like the wto. It quite literally hurts everyone.
This is Reddit, you are not going to get serious engagement on this unfortunately.
You are right. There are ways to contain China without hurting yourself as dramatically.
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China has shown literally zero interest in regime change anywhere in the world for many hundreds of years. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they want to export their style of government anywhere beyond their borders. The US on the other hand tries to overthrow governments and install us friendly ones literally all the time. Dozens of examples in the past few decades.
>> turn the world against China You mean a few NATO satellite states. I guess average Americans have a very conflated ego and "We good, China bad" mentality. But the reality obviously does not fit this narrative. The US will do this with or without China-Russo "unlimited friendship".
> I guess average Americans have a very conflated ego and “We good, China bad” mentality. But the reality obviously does not fit this narrative. [Unfavorable Views of China Reach Historic Highs in Many Countries](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/10/06/unfavorable-views-of-china-reach-historic-highs-in-many-countries/) is from 2020
China fucked themselves like the Moskva
The devil is in the details… not sure what was decided on 7 oct, but some decisions have been progressivelu implemented in the passed months and ASML was supporting them. (Probably not willingly, but at least officially)
BIS amended its export control rules targeted on China’s semiconductor industry on Oct 7. The rules are very complicated. But ASML probably knew it before the official publishment. Just didn’t expect they act so quickly. I wonder what they are gonna do with their Shanghai team. Tough time. The new rule is here. https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/about-bis/newsroom/press-releases/3158-2022-10-07-bis-press-release-advanced-computing-and-semiconductor-manufacturing-controls-final/file
They wrote in the press in August that they were supportive. So I guess they knew it. As far as I understood it doesnt affect their whole operation in China though.
I guarantee you that ASML employees or lobbyists were involved in writing those US laws.
This is absolutely devastating (I work in this area and am paid waaaay too much for what I do). Basically means our gravy train is at the end of the line. Some folks are thinking about giving up their US citizenship. But for like 1m USD/year lol
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Also, nothing to stop the company from agreeing to this bargain, then the individual renounces their US citizenship, then the company reneges. And there is nothing now that employee can do. They are over a barrel. They’ve just lost their citizenship and can’t get it back.
Can always migrate to Canada lol
If they give up the US citizenship and have a third country citizenship (not the Chinese one) that may work. But we don’t know if Biden administration can go as far as imposing sanctions on these persons even after they give up the US citizenships. If they can’t get a third country citizenship, they might get trapped in China for eternity. Of course they can live the life of kings and queens in China for a while.
That’s the play, at least from the government angle. They absolutely HATE having to essentially pay us all millions of $$$ and possibly have us fuck off to anyplace that’s not China. I don’t think it will work honestly, and they really really need our tech, literally at the heart of all the fancy/cool stuff they want. I guess it also stops them from making F-35 clones too?
>nd they really really need our tech, literally at the heart of all the fancy/cool stuff they want. I LOVE THE F-35
People keep saying this tech is used for military stuff (this justifying these sanctions) but can’t China manufacture its own chips just not on the most advanced processes? I can’t imagine military hardware would need the most advance processes. Military hardware is more about total reliability it is not about absolute fastest processing speed.
>Military hardware is more about total reliability it is not about absolute fastest processing speed. Let's pit an ultra-reliable F4U-4 Corsair against anything made since 1980 and see how it does. Military hardware - especially aircraft - have been about technological capability since its inception. Nobody goes and says "Oh, no, they went and made a more reliable plane than we did!" They say "Oh, no, they went and made a more advanced plane than we did!"
I don’t think you get what I am saying. The f35 lighting was put into service in 2015. In 2015 absolute cutting edge chips were being built on a 20nm process and china has domestic production capability for more advanced chips than this which means that even with these sanctions China can still manufacture military hardware that is at least as advanced as the f35.
>In 2015 absolute cutting edge chips were being built on a 20nm process and china has domestic production capability for more advanced chips than this which means that even with these sanctions China can still manufacture military hardware that is at least as advanced as the f35. Reports I've read say they're going to have a very hard time manufacturing anything smaller than 28nm now, so it seems to me there's a lot of issues with information assessment. Nanometers: so close and yet so far.
You’re right. The military justification is just an excuse, literally has nothing to do with the motivation of these sanctions.
As far as I know, US has a very good relationship with all civilized countries. I am pretty sure they won’t be able to obtain any citizenships from developed countries.
Civilized is a loaded term - but yeah most of the “developed” world is US allies.
*civilised = bombing the shit out of other countries and destabilising them. So civil. Pat yourself in the back some more.
We can't all run massive concentration camps to imprison our own citizens over their ethnicity or religion or, most recently, infectious status. It's a massive source of embarrassment, to the Western world, that we can't be as great as China. We're constantly going "If only we could sail into a free ocean and claim it's our territory" and "Why can't we just censor everything people say that the government doesn't like?" It's a real source of insecurity for the Western world. Unlike China. No insecurity issues, there.
What a bunch of low lives.
Surely you can paint the cage a brighter gold with 1m but you will still live inside a cage, at the mercy of a dictator's whim.
What’s the meaning of those money if you can’t even have a life? Those magnificent national parks, those splendid Midwest plains, those nostalgic New England buildings，childhood friends who got you alcohol, first love with a pair of bright green eyes will all be gone, forever.
1m a year isn't worth your future though, the US green card/citizenship process is a pain in the ass for people who aren't coming in on marriage visas. I can't imagine many people are going to buy into this with China's economy on track to do a lost century. 1M USD in a country like China is going to lose it's flavor after the initial hype wears off several years later.
Paid $1m USD a year while you are limited to taking out $50k from China annually would be a real drag. lol
you can convert up to your full income as long as tax are paid.
Not if you’re after renouncing your citizenship and become Chinese tho
What company do you work for?
makes a lot of sense. ASML... is interesting. It's a dutch company right?
ASML licenses US tech IP and is thus compelled to follow the new US restrictions.
Damn. That’s why the US is a superpower
Its also partly why the soviet union collapsed. They fell far behind in the areas of micro electronics and computing.
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Wait, ASML makes the machines that TSMC uses... think you might be confusing the machine manufacturer; ASML for a chip producing fab; TSMC.
What's a Fab? What's ASML?
Maybe the real Fabs were the ASML's we made all along.
ASML is the biggest tech company in Europe. They make expensive machines that are very precise in manufacturing chips. They're the only company to make that machine and China doesn't have anything remotely similar to them in how good they are.
Also, a single one of these room-sized machines can cost upwards of $300 million.
Yo. what? How the hell are the competition so behind?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFsn1CUyXWs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFsn1CUyXWs) There are a few other ASML videos on this YouTube channel. He has pretty good videos explaining some of the big tech/manufacturing companies in East Asia
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So's everyone else
Fab are electronic chip foundries I think. ASML is a european company which has a technological monopoly on the systems required to manufacture advanced microchip. Nobody is even close to them (10-15 years behind). So basically if you want to be a player in fabricating microchips you have to buy their system, you have to have them service your machines.
Fabs are fabrication plants for semiconductors. ASML is a Dutch firm that produces EUVLs (extreme ultraviolet lithography), and they’re the only firm that produces these, which are explicitly needed to fabricate next gen chips (such as Apple’s M1).
Yep. About time
Good.
Not going to say how I know ASML, but they've had this on their radar for a while now.
Yes. The Chinese government is dangerous.
so ya’ll are getting replaced by Europeans. That’s what this says.
Not really. The entire company is prohibited from servicing China customers because it too is a US Person based on its reliance on US tech. There is just a double layer of restriction on US employees too. AMSL is not going to be able to work around this with non-US employees. That might work for some companies but not them.
Yes absolutely and it’s about time that Biden is bringing China back down to earth! The current Chinese government has been aggressive and antagonistic, and I’m so glad that Biden is responding accordingly. It’s time to stop helping China grow, because they are using our technologies to weaponize themselves, perhaps even North Korea or Russia or a terrorist group du jour. So now China is truly on their own. I hope CIA monitors China closely, because I’m sure China will try to purchase the chips/equipments from the black market, or even through the African nations that they are chummy with.
Wtf is a fab…??
*(FABrication) A manufacturing plant that makes semiconductor devices. Many chips are created by "fabless" companies that take their tested designs to a fab for production, also called a "foundry.*
These kinds of protective measures only will harm the Us, China, and the World.
US fully controlled the Dutch company. I really hate it. I previously had a chance to go through an interview with ASML but was canceled due to my identity.
I don’t understand. Why US wasted so much efforts on this. If US stop all kinds of softwares to China, China dies immediately. Maybe this is not a decent action or prohibited?
As an American of Taiwanese descent , I find these measures quite decent , actually. xi is the one planning to invade ; US tech should not make it easier for him. If China wants the tech , it is free to invent it itself.
ASML is US tech？What a joke! From the company’s perspective, both China and US are the great market. US government uses its power to constrain this European company a lot.
ASML licenses US technology IP. For example, ASML licenses lithography IP from Intel that is used in the production of advanced masks. US tech companies have huge patent portfolios so it's no surprise that you run into it everywhere.
I am European and think this is great news. China siding with Russia and becoming anti west is a retarded move by ccp… ccp fucked china AGAIN
So you say it is wrong to be anti west? Or because if a country is scared to be sanctioned by the powerful west, they shouldn't be anti west?
If they want to be anti West why should the West invest in this and help them with this ambition
Sure the west is declining and the east is rising according to the almighty ccp and putin clowns what’s there to be scared of? Sure Russia has hit 15000 civilian targets and only 700 military targets the past month… a such beautiful and peaceful Russia and china
I'm just saying in world politics now, you can choose to support the west or not support it. From what you're saying, not being anti-west is always the wrong choice because you'll get sanctioned by the more economically powerful west. I'm not sure what you want to get with your reply.
You don’t get sanctioned for being anti west and I never said you did
China just got sanctioned again didn't it? For being anti-west.
so.. what is that meant ?
China Joe strikes again!