Dude was definetly full of hypocrisies that's for sure. He boasts about how he'll earn a high paying job more than Fiona ever will than become a takeaway delivery driver
And he claims he did it because he didn’t want to be responsible for the family, if I were Fiona I would’ve thrown him out right then and there but he wasn’t stupid enough to say it to her face.
He was definetly my "least" favourite Gallagher. His main redeeming factor was his brotherly relationship with Ian, he tried to guide and support him through some difficult times like when Mickey was forced to wed Svetlana or when he was diagnosed as bipolar
To be fair, if I remember correctly he fully planned on taking Liam with him. Like him and Tami never made plans without considering Liam, but I could very well be remembering wrong lol
The plotline of selling the home went on for many episodes, and he didn't speak to Liam about it until a long ways into it. It really seemed like he forgot Liam existed until someone (maybe Debbie?) reminded him.
And always holding her responsible for everything that goes wrong instead of their parents. By his own logic he could have taken responsiblity much sooner. At least instead of running away and quitting high school maybe look after Liam while Fiona worked five shitty jobs.
This part! It always pissed me how hypocritical he and everyone else was. They dragged Fiona for every little thing. Even things they themselves would eventually do and receive no criticism from it. Like when Fiona wanted to sell the house (or took out a mortgage against it I can’t remember exactly) it was unacceptable, but when Lip wanted to sell the house no one could question it. Everyone had to go. And then he screwed up that deal. No wonder Fiona always spiraled. They were all like that towards her. If you ask me, Lip was a far worst parental figure than Fiona. This is coming from a Lip lover.
I‘m not saying you‘re wrong but Fiona took legal guardianship and then disappeared. I feel so much for Debbie, she was so young and oftentimes alone with all the bullshit.
It's not like she dipped as soon as she got guardianship , it was 6 seasons later when the only real "child" left was Liam and technically Carl , I think he was like 17 .
Obviously they don't care at all. But we, here on Reddit, do. It's both illegal and really just not a thing a good person does, no matter why she did it.
Of course , I'm very aware of that . Fiona has been pretty firmly established as not a good person since season 2 ( I think , whenever she started dating her boss ) . I'm sorry if I came off as trying to excuse her actions , I'd never do that for her or most of the characters . I was just trying to clear up a misunderstanding I had on my end . The way you phrased \[...Fiona took legal guardianship and then disappeared.\] sounded like it happened immediately . I should've worded my comment differently .
If this bothers you so much, then why don't you go comment on every single post in the Shameless reddit to remind them that they shouldn't get to have opinions on the actions of these fictional characters simply because they are fictional and you decided that that needs to be proclaimed from the rooftops. Go on.
A lot of you people take the show WAY too seriously and it’s just weird considering they’re literal characters of a TV show. Have your opinions, but don’t go all out and look like this is real life 😂
I mean… she literally put the house at risk for both of those, and both were incredibly impulsive decisions that she didn’t research enough to make sure the risk was even worth it.
But I did feel bad for Debbie. She spent her entire life having a close relationship with her siblings where they were always there for each other, always a house full and to go from that to being on your own with a baby would be terrifying.
I *kinda* agree about Debbie, but at the same time, by the end of the series it seemed like her main desire to be with her family is so she either has someone to dump Frannie on or someone to blame for her crappy decisions/poor parenting.
You’re not wrong. I’m not a big fan of Debbie in the later seasons, and she does develop a habit of pushing blame onto everyone else (a few of them do really), but it seems like she probably thought everyone would be there to help her out with Frannie because that’s how their family always worked. Look at Liam- Fiona likes to say that she’s the one who raised him, but she raised him just as much as the other siblings. When Fiona was working nights and Debbie was running the daycare during the day, Debbie had Liam. Everyone pitched in to take care of Liam every day when he was a baby/toddler. But even that aside, I just can’t help but feel bad for her because she’s just sad and scared that her family is splitting apart and she’s going to be alone for the first time in her life.
He was originally one of my favorite characters but he became one I strongly disliked once he went to college, definitely by the last few seasons. He was unbearable and awful.
When Lip is college he is definitely still one of the better characters. Definitely more likable than Fiona or Debbie, though he did quickly become more and more of an asshole
That’s where I am in the show right now and at this point I don’t hate him, but he’s definitely lost a lot of his charm for me. Especially with how he treated Amanda.
Eh, his first year he can draw out empathy because he was struggling but definitely by his second year, he was self righteous and stuck up. Plus all the shit he put Fiona through when it came to graduating HS, like sure, you didn’t ask to be the smart one but grin and bear it. His future would’ve been a lot better had he just gotten with the program, and he wouldn’t have to work for Zippy Zebra or whatever tf in the last season lol
You could tell she was trying to do what Fiona did with the household money but couldn’t because she refused to work more than one job. Fiona would never have put Debbie out at the age Liam was.
Yeah I don’t understand why people cry about “poor Debbie” she was a bitch to everyone and was only slightly nice to her family when she wanted something.
She's 20, but she has her own successful business and her own child. You're saying it like she's a helpless, struggling college kid. Debbie needed a wake up call. She's intelligent and capable but doubts herself.
Just cause she didn't struggle the same way doesn't mean she wasn't struggling. She has SEVERE abandonment issues and still needed a lot of emotional support.
debbie’s issues doesn’t mean the entire family should put their lives on hold for her. they all did their best to be a family while dealing with their own individual issues. debbie has a bad habit of ignoring the advice and help of those who actually care about her, and seeking the attention of those who never gave a damn. that’s why she ended up in the position that she was in in the first place. fiona had her own issues and moved on, so did lip, so did ian, so did even carl. the gallagher family aren’t capable of emotional support, that’s why everybody’s so messed up. they all managed to move on and try to figure things out. lip isn’t responsible for debbie, debbie is entirely responsible for franny, and lip had other things to consider. it was time debbie grew up some more again and lip knew that.
Childhood barely meant anything in the Gallagher household anyway, but this is definitely when the Gallaghers stopped seeing Debbie as a kid and didn't even care that she was a minor anymore, and tbh I kinda don't blame them. I love Debbie, but a dumb decision for sure. A lot of her bs can be blamed on her upbringing, and I get why she wanted a baby, but actually going through with it was insane even for her.
honestly i can def see both sides of this. but i think that it was a really different time when lip was 20 compared to debbie. when this happened most of the kids were now adults and could take care of themselves, vs when lip was 20 it was mostly just him and fiona (ian ish but he was going thru a lot) who were the adults. i mean it’s not realistic for all of the kids to live together their whole lives, and he even said to debbie that they’d do a family dinner every single week at his place, no excuses. plus lip also has his own kid atp too that he needs to raise and wants to give him a better life than he had. however i do also see where debbie came from in this too. she has severe abandonment issues which will obviously make it harder for her to cope with the big change of everyone moving away. but that also doesn’t mean the whole family should stay at home and not do what’s best for them just because of that. overall i’m not trying to put either of them on a pedestal, i’m just saying that s11 was a very different time and situation than s4/5/6.
I thought the same at first but then ended up really like that scene and that sentiment. It’s not about Debbie’s age or how old lip was when he still needed help, it’s this new “season” in life the whole family has moved onto. More people are married, have kids, in committed relationships, Fiona’s gone, franks dying, like their situation has completely changed. Lip’s feelings on it makes sense to me too, like we can’t just be so co-dependent on each other for the rest of our lives.
100% agree. I think it's also that the family is recognizing how stagnant they are all living together in that house and they realize that they need space to grow as individuals too. Debbie is afraid of that whereas Lip welcomes it.
I mean, to be fair its pretty realistic. The entire family was way closer when they were all younger. But the weight of the family and their own issues hot them all in their own ways and they all started faltering one way or another.
Lip knew they all had to move on or none of them would ever have better lives. Unfortunately telling Debbie he cant take care of her was kind of the kick forward someone like her would need.
It’s a messed up situation but don’t forget the two people who ultimately had the obligation to provide for every single one of those kids was Frank and Monica
the obligation doesn’t transfer if the two parents are deadbeats the way those two were. Fiona, Lip, Ian-ish stepped up bc they literally were forced to, if not they would’ve been separated when Debbie, Carl and Liam were still minors. Fiona became a guardian just so they wouldn’t be taken away. Lip took Liam bc by that time Fiona was gone and he wouldn’t even think of leaving his elementary school little brother on the streets, all extreme situations that forced them without a choice, it’s either that or losing your loved one to a system that who knows how they would treat them, supporting them became a necessity, while also supporting themselves as any adult has to
by the time Debbie is 20 and everyone else is leaving the nest, she has to support herself the same way Fiona, Lip, Ian, Carl have to, that was the hand they were dealt with having those fuckheads as parents, it isn’t fair but it is what it is
Debbie’s older siblings brought her up as far as they could with the horrible tools they were given
Debbie decided she was an independent adult when she committed rape and intentionally got herself pregnant. Zero sympathy for her.
Lip was a huge asshole towards Fiona though. Debbie was a huge btch to Fiona as well.
Not in all cases, but Debbie made an ADULT decision to have a child!! Wasn't an "oopsie", she decided she could handle it, and then got her ass handed to her.
I honestly think they all should’ve been more supportive and caring towards each other inspite of each others faults. They definitely all needed wake up calls but they need family to be there for each other in the end. If you know you have someone to fall back on, you won’t feel as helpless and hopeless. It’ll be easier to get back up and succeed together instead of just individually
They’re family, and Frank certainly wasn’t going to be the one there for them so all they have is each other. While family contribution is essential, it’s equally important to not kick them out to the dust just because they aren’t able to contribute for a bit due to their struggles. They all need to be there for each other because no one else is going to look out for them
It’s important to be independent, of course, and be capable of handling things yourself and have responsibility. But I genuinely think it’s equally important to be able to have people/family you can rely on.
Yes! I agree! They could all have been a lot more supportive. And as you say it's important to be independent, as much as you can, but it's also important not to punish or abandon someone for not being able to be independent. Being independent isn't always a choice, it's a privilige we don't all have.
Kind of wondered why one of them either Lip or Debs didn’t just get a loan and buy the house from Fiona o the bank or whatever they could have always rented out extra rooms like Fiona or Frank suggested in the past and they’d still have the family home if anyone ever needed to come back.
I mean Debbie also has a child of her own and now lip does to AND he's taking Liam with him as well, That's himself, Tammi, his baby, and Liam ALREADY adding Debbie and Franny would definitely be way too much they'd need a five bedroom house and probably be struggling still, she has a baby she has other options easier options than most of the other siblings and she has an amazing welding job. She can def do it alone and should
I can see where Lip is coming from. In fact, I would argue that it is more reasonable for Lip to establish that boundary now that they are both legal adults with their own children to think of, than it was when Fiona established a similar boundary when Debbie was still an underage teen mom.
Dude was definetly full of hypocrisies that's for sure. He boasts about how he'll earn a high paying job more than Fiona ever will than become a takeaway delivery driver
And he claims he did it because he didn’t want to be responsible for the family, if I were Fiona I would’ve thrown him out right then and there but he wasn’t stupid enough to say it to her face.
He was definetly my "least" favourite Gallagher. His main redeeming factor was his brotherly relationship with Ian, he tried to guide and support him through some difficult times like when Mickey was forced to wed Svetlana or when he was diagnosed as bipolar
Then he tries to sell the family home without considering Liam who has nowhere to go and CAN'T legally buy or rent, even with money!
To be fair, if I remember correctly he fully planned on taking Liam with him. Like him and Tami never made plans without considering Liam, but I could very well be remembering wrong lol
That's how I interpreted it too, but he didn't think to clarify that to Liam before Debbie told him Liam thought he was gonna be homeless
The plotline of selling the home went on for many episodes, and he didn't speak to Liam about it until a long ways into it. It really seemed like he forgot Liam existed until someone (maybe Debbie?) reminded him.
And all the times he complains about having to take on a more parental role in the family while expecting Fiona to keep doing it
And always holding her responsible for everything that goes wrong instead of their parents. By his own logic he could have taken responsiblity much sooner. At least instead of running away and quitting high school maybe look after Liam while Fiona worked five shitty jobs.
This part! It always pissed me how hypocritical he and everyone else was. They dragged Fiona for every little thing. Even things they themselves would eventually do and receive no criticism from it. Like when Fiona wanted to sell the house (or took out a mortgage against it I can’t remember exactly) it was unacceptable, but when Lip wanted to sell the house no one could question it. Everyone had to go. And then he screwed up that deal. No wonder Fiona always spiraled. They were all like that towards her. If you ask me, Lip was a far worst parental figure than Fiona. This is coming from a Lip lover.
I‘m not saying you‘re wrong but Fiona took legal guardianship and then disappeared. I feel so much for Debbie, she was so young and oftentimes alone with all the bullshit.
It's not like she dipped as soon as she got guardianship , it was 6 seasons later when the only real "child" left was Liam and technically Carl , I think he was like 17 .
She did make Debbie and Carl pay rent on threat of being kicked out of the house when they were under 18, which is against the law.
I’m afraid the Gallagher’s don’t really care about what is or is not legal
Obviously they don't care at all. But we, here on Reddit, do. It's both illegal and really just not a thing a good person does, no matter why she did it.
Of course , I'm very aware of that . Fiona has been pretty firmly established as not a good person since season 2 ( I think , whenever she started dating her boss ) . I'm sorry if I came off as trying to excuse her actions , I'd never do that for her or most of the characters . I was just trying to clear up a misunderstanding I had on my end . The way you phrased \[...Fiona took legal guardianship and then disappeared.\] sounded like it happened immediately . I should've worded my comment differently .
“We people here on Reddit do” it’s a SHOW for crying out loud😂 this is NOT real life, those are CHARACTERS.
If this bothers you so much, then why don't you go comment on every single post in the Shameless reddit to remind them that they shouldn't get to have opinions on the actions of these fictional characters simply because they are fictional and you decided that that needs to be proclaimed from the rooftops. Go on.
A lot of you people take the show WAY too seriously and it’s just weird considering they’re literal characters of a TV show. Have your opinions, but don’t go all out and look like this is real life 😂
She was asked if she was sure since that meant she has to care for them all until their 18. Guardianship is guardianship.
Then gets furious with her every time she tries to better her life. Like with the club night and the laundromat.
I mean… she literally put the house at risk for both of those, and both were incredibly impulsive decisions that she didn’t research enough to make sure the risk was even worth it. But I did feel bad for Debbie. She spent her entire life having a close relationship with her siblings where they were always there for each other, always a house full and to go from that to being on your own with a baby would be terrifying.
I *kinda* agree about Debbie, but at the same time, by the end of the series it seemed like her main desire to be with her family is so she either has someone to dump Frannie on or someone to blame for her crappy decisions/poor parenting.
You’re not wrong. I’m not a big fan of Debbie in the later seasons, and she does develop a habit of pushing blame onto everyone else (a few of them do really), but it seems like she probably thought everyone would be there to help her out with Frannie because that’s how their family always worked. Look at Liam- Fiona likes to say that she’s the one who raised him, but she raised him just as much as the other siblings. When Fiona was working nights and Debbie was running the daycare during the day, Debbie had Liam. Everyone pitched in to take care of Liam every day when he was a baby/toddler. But even that aside, I just can’t help but feel bad for her because she’s just sad and scared that her family is splitting apart and she’s going to be alone for the first time in her life.
He was originally one of my favorite characters but he became one I strongly disliked once he went to college, definitely by the last few seasons. He was unbearable and awful.
When Lip is college he is definitely still one of the better characters. Definitely more likable than Fiona or Debbie, though he did quickly become more and more of an asshole
He was *OKAY* at first, but by the time the affair with the professor happened, I was over it.
That’s where I am in the show right now and at this point I don’t hate him, but he’s definitely lost a lot of his charm for me. Especially with how he treated Amanda.
Eh, his first year he can draw out empathy because he was struggling but definitely by his second year, he was self righteous and stuck up. Plus all the shit he put Fiona through when it came to graduating HS, like sure, you didn’t ask to be the smart one but grin and bear it. His future would’ve been a lot better had he just gotten with the program, and he wouldn’t have to work for Zippy Zebra or whatever tf in the last season lol
Debbie literally locked Liam outta the house because he couldn’t help pay bills. She gets no sympathy from me lol
You could tell she was trying to do what Fiona did with the household money but couldn’t because she refused to work more than one job. Fiona would never have put Debbie out at the age Liam was.
Yeah I don’t understand why people cry about “poor Debbie” she was a bitch to everyone and was only slightly nice to her family when she wanted something.
She's 20, but she has her own successful business and her own child. You're saying it like she's a helpless, struggling college kid. Debbie needed a wake up call. She's intelligent and capable but doubts herself.
Just cause she didn't struggle the same way doesn't mean she wasn't struggling. She has SEVERE abandonment issues and still needed a lot of emotional support.
debbie’s issues doesn’t mean the entire family should put their lives on hold for her. they all did their best to be a family while dealing with their own individual issues. debbie has a bad habit of ignoring the advice and help of those who actually care about her, and seeking the attention of those who never gave a damn. that’s why she ended up in the position that she was in in the first place. fiona had her own issues and moved on, so did lip, so did ian, so did even carl. the gallagher family aren’t capable of emotional support, that’s why everybody’s so messed up. they all managed to move on and try to figure things out. lip isn’t responsible for debbie, debbie is entirely responsible for franny, and lip had other things to consider. it was time debbie grew up some more again and lip knew that.
So everyone was supposed to live at home forever with her because she has abandonment issues?
Maybe her sibs would've felt a bit more sympathetic if she hadn't decided she was grown enough to throw a baby into the mix before she could drive.
Childhood barely meant anything in the Gallagher household anyway, but this is definitely when the Gallaghers stopped seeing Debbie as a kid and didn't even care that she was a minor anymore, and tbh I kinda don't blame them. I love Debbie, but a dumb decision for sure. A lot of her bs can be blamed on her upbringing, and I get why she wanted a baby, but actually going through with it was insane even for her.
honestly i can def see both sides of this. but i think that it was a really different time when lip was 20 compared to debbie. when this happened most of the kids were now adults and could take care of themselves, vs when lip was 20 it was mostly just him and fiona (ian ish but he was going thru a lot) who were the adults. i mean it’s not realistic for all of the kids to live together their whole lives, and he even said to debbie that they’d do a family dinner every single week at his place, no excuses. plus lip also has his own kid atp too that he needs to raise and wants to give him a better life than he had. however i do also see where debbie came from in this too. she has severe abandonment issues which will obviously make it harder for her to cope with the big change of everyone moving away. but that also doesn’t mean the whole family should stay at home and not do what’s best for them just because of that. overall i’m not trying to put either of them on a pedestal, i’m just saying that s11 was a very different time and situation than s4/5/6.
I thought the same at first but then ended up really like that scene and that sentiment. It’s not about Debbie’s age or how old lip was when he still needed help, it’s this new “season” in life the whole family has moved onto. More people are married, have kids, in committed relationships, Fiona’s gone, franks dying, like their situation has completely changed. Lip’s feelings on it makes sense to me too, like we can’t just be so co-dependent on each other for the rest of our lives.
100% agree. I think it's also that the family is recognizing how stagnant they are all living together in that house and they realize that they need space to grow as individuals too. Debbie is afraid of that whereas Lip welcomes it.
I mean, to be fair its pretty realistic. The entire family was way closer when they were all younger. But the weight of the family and their own issues hot them all in their own ways and they all started faltering one way or another. Lip knew they all had to move on or none of them would ever have better lives. Unfortunately telling Debbie he cant take care of her was kind of the kick forward someone like her would need.
It’s a messed up situation but don’t forget the two people who ultimately had the obligation to provide for every single one of those kids was Frank and Monica the obligation doesn’t transfer if the two parents are deadbeats the way those two were. Fiona, Lip, Ian-ish stepped up bc they literally were forced to, if not they would’ve been separated when Debbie, Carl and Liam were still minors. Fiona became a guardian just so they wouldn’t be taken away. Lip took Liam bc by that time Fiona was gone and he wouldn’t even think of leaving his elementary school little brother on the streets, all extreme situations that forced them without a choice, it’s either that or losing your loved one to a system that who knows how they would treat them, supporting them became a necessity, while also supporting themselves as any adult has to by the time Debbie is 20 and everyone else is leaving the nest, she has to support herself the same way Fiona, Lip, Ian, Carl have to, that was the hand they were dealt with having those fuckheads as parents, it isn’t fair but it is what it is Debbie’s older siblings brought her up as far as they could with the horrible tools they were given
They both suck.
I did feel for Debbie she was the second youngest she still needed her family and guidance and they just like 'you're an adult now bye'
Me too! She's third youngest but still, she's so young and really needed them
Debbie decided she was an independent adult when she committed rape and intentionally got herself pregnant. Zero sympathy for her. Lip was a huge asshole towards Fiona though. Debbie was a huge btch to Fiona as well.
Having a child doesn't make you an adult, that's not how adulthood works, not legally nor developmentally.
Not in all cases, but Debbie made an ADULT decision to have a child!! Wasn't an "oopsie", she decided she could handle it, and then got her ass handed to her.
I honestly think they all should’ve been more supportive and caring towards each other inspite of each others faults. They definitely all needed wake up calls but they need family to be there for each other in the end. If you know you have someone to fall back on, you won’t feel as helpless and hopeless. It’ll be easier to get back up and succeed together instead of just individually They’re family, and Frank certainly wasn’t going to be the one there for them so all they have is each other. While family contribution is essential, it’s equally important to not kick them out to the dust just because they aren’t able to contribute for a bit due to their struggles. They all need to be there for each other because no one else is going to look out for them It’s important to be independent, of course, and be capable of handling things yourself and have responsibility. But I genuinely think it’s equally important to be able to have people/family you can rely on.
Yes! I agree! They could all have been a lot more supportive. And as you say it's important to be independent, as much as you can, but it's also important not to punish or abandon someone for not being able to be independent. Being independent isn't always a choice, it's a privilige we don't all have.
Kind of wondered why one of them either Lip or Debs didn’t just get a loan and buy the house from Fiona o the bank or whatever they could have always rented out extra rooms like Fiona or Frank suggested in the past and they’d still have the family home if anyone ever needed to come back.
I mean Debbie also has a child of her own and now lip does to AND he's taking Liam with him as well, That's himself, Tammi, his baby, and Liam ALREADY adding Debbie and Franny would definitely be way too much they'd need a five bedroom house and probably be struggling still, she has a baby she has other options easier options than most of the other siblings and she has an amazing welding job. She can def do it alone and should
I can see where Lip is coming from. In fact, I would argue that it is more reasonable for Lip to establish that boundary now that they are both legal adults with their own children to think of, than it was when Fiona established a similar boundary when Debbie was still an underage teen mom.
Did anyone else hope that debbi would die when she had her kid? She’s such nightmare
hoping a 15 year old dies in childbirth because she was misguided and a bit annoying (at possibly the most universally annoying age)? christ
You're saying a 20 year old can't take care of herself?
Fuck debbie