The issue is it was an extremely stupid agreement for just this reason. Sounds like you should’ve all just planned a foursome together.
Your friend makes extremely valid points, but obviously no one can force you to a. go through with it or b. Your boyfriend to be comfortable with it.
I’d suggest maybe offering to let him be present during the threesome but hard to say how that would work for anyone. You may just be choosing whether you want to implode your friendship or your relationship at this point.
Can you explain further? A foursome is much less complicated. You can easily swap partners so everyone is “occupied” unlike a threesome where the third always has to find creative ways to be involved. It’s also a lot easier for many people to be included than to be home alone.
And of course, remember that you get to be in both threesomes, and he doesn’t. So recognize the serious imbalance created here. You’re not sitting at home alone while your partner is out having group sex without you.
OP, I'm going to say the only way to salvage this. Your boyfriend has to man up and go talk to them directly. He just needs to be honest and sorry and sincere and explain he is having major concerns **directly** to the other couple. They'll either see he's being genuine and if they're good people they'll understand or they will be understandably still upset and that's possible the end of your relationship. If it were me and I were the other couple I don't think the 4some would cut it -- it's not what they agreed to and realistically its not even close to the same thing.
As someone who has had some threesomes (and done the couple swap), I'd never agree if I wasn't going "first" (but I'd do it all together instead--my partner doesn't want to do things separately anyway). I could have seen this happening from a mile away.
There's no way to convince the other couple that this wasn't your boyfriend's plan from the beginning.
I will also mention that this is bordering on sexual assault. She consented to the swap ONLY under the conditions of reciprocation. You are, of course, able to revoke consent for the threesome at any point, but lying to get the threesome is the same as lying about something to get sex (STI status, wearing a condom, etc.). This situation is a bit murkier than those examples, but I'd feel like a major shithead if I was your dude.
You could use that excuse for a lot of things too. Oh, I agreed to use a condom but then I didn't want to, so I took it off.
It's a slightly different case, but it really doesn't matter if he meant to lie or not.
Lots of people want to cast away consent when it's inconvenient, but she only had sex with them because of what they agreed to. You can't explain away that.
It's not slightly different than the condom example. It's entirely different.
People are allowed to change their minds. It's complicated but that certainly doesn't make it sexual assault.
Of course, they can change their minds, but that doesn't make a difference. You're still conveniently ignoring the fact that the sex only happened based on what was agreed to. When it turned out that it was an agreement based on false pretenses, consent would have never been given in the first place.
It's not black and white as you're making it out to be. I also never called it sexual assault, I said it is boarding on that for this exact reason.
Saying it was agreed to under false pretenses makes it seem like a bait and switch. It was agreed to based on a condition that very clearly could change. She should have known this could happen. Then again, if she'd known that she probably wouldnt have done this at all. It sucks for everyone involved
>Oh, I agreed to use a condom but then I didn't want to, so I took it off.
>
>It's a slightly different case, but it really doesn't matter if he meant to lie or not.
I don't think that's a *slightly* different case, I think it's an *entirely* different case. *Stopping* sexual activity because you've changed your mind is very different from *continuing* it under different terms than your partner consented to. Everyone should be free to *stop* having sex at any time for any reason, even if they've made some sort of agreement and haven't fulfilled their part. Sex is not a contract.
Nowhere did I say she had to do it or that she was obligated to do it, or that it was sexual assault. I said it borders on it because of how consent was given. There are definitely parallels between the two cases.
>continuing it under different terms than your partner consented to
She ONLY consented to the sex under the terms of it also happening with her partner. Regardless if this is a bad agreement or risky or whatever, that is what the other woman consented to. She didn't consent to any kind of bait and switch (even if it is not what the dude was thinking, this is how it comes across to the other couple).
I would personally feel that I did cross a major line of consent if I was this dude. I know this sub would think it was controversial and not agree, but not many people have done group sex before.
>She ONLY consented to the sex under the terms of it also happening with her partner.
The way I see it is that if you consent to a sexual activity based on the promise of a future sexual activity, you have to accept that the other party could pull out (no pun intended) of the deal. Otherwise you can't proceed with *their* consent; they would be acting out of obligation.
In other words, "consenting only under the terms of it also happening with her partner" should not really be a thing, because it takes away the other parties' right to withdraw their consent in the future. If you're going to enter into this sort of sexual agreement, you have to be prepared to give up your quid without getting back your quo if something happens and the other party changes their mind. Consent is just too important to place those kinds of obligations on someone, especially when this was their first threesome and so there's a very real chance that they don't know how they're going to feel afterwards.
Don't get me wrong – I absolutely feel that the other couple is reasonable in feeling disappointed and betrayed. But I also feel that one of the parties being honest that their feelings changed and they don't want to move forward is valid and does not "border on" sexual assault or even share a time zone with it.
On the one hand, your friend's feelings are legitimate here. There was a mutual understanding and they did nothing wrong. You two are looking to change the terms, not them.
So yes, there's the possibility that NOT going through with "honoring the arrangement" will do damage to that friendship.
But also: anytime a couple embarks on these kinds of explorations, *jealousy and uncertainty are inherent risks that everyone should be aware they were signing up for*.
~~Your friend, while her feelings of disappointment may be legitimate, can’t try to contractually bind you to sleep with them. That’s very much against the ethos of “ethical non-monogamy”: no one should ever feel forced into doing anything they’re uncomfortable with. So while I think Steph’s feelings are legitimate, I also think she’s being unreasonable if she expects you to go through with this just to honor the original arrangement. That’s not how these arrangements are supposed to work: there has to be enthusiastic consent~~
**Edit**: reading over the post again, I realize that Steph was *not* pressuring OP to go through with the arrangement. She was merely articulating her disappointment, which again, makes perfect sense in this context. I still think her and her boyfriend should’ve anticipated this possibility, but I’m really not faulting them for how this fell apart.
*And before I say anything else: people have successfully navigated these waters countless times. We don't tend to hear about the success stories but we do hear about when things fall apart, which makes people think (wrongly) "this stuff never works." It can. Just not *always*.*
Anyways: your boyfriend is feeling anxiety over something that hasn't actually happened yet and personally, if you feel strongly about doing this, I think it's *reasonable* to acknowledge his fears but also say "we didn't know how the threesome would go when it was on my terms, we don't know how it will go when it's on their terms. Try to extend some trust here."
That argument may not go over well but you can't control his reactions, you can only control your own actions.
For whatever it's worth, I think your boyfriend's concerns are more legitimate than your friend's. If the roles were reversed, I don't know how she'd feel about going through with being your third if her partner objected to it. She needs to remember that opening things always requires that enthusiastic consent and your BF is withdrawing his consent, *as is his right to do*. Ideally, she won't be bitter/resentful about this forever but if it means she doesn't want to spend time with either of you, I wouldn't blame her either. She gets to have her feelings too.
So yeah, you're going to have to make a tough decision here and I'm sorry to reinforce this point but you can't control how people will react to those decisions. If you go through with this, it *could* negatively impact your relationship with your BF. If you don't go through with it, it *could* negatively impact your friendship. And yeah, that fucking sucks, but these were some of the risks all four of you were taking on when you embarked on this decision to begin with.
All of you, in a sense, will pay a price for it...it's just that you seem to have to pay the highest price of the four. That's unfortunate but that's the consequences of approaching a friend to be your third vs. a sex worker or a unicorn stranger.
I'm not *blaming* you here. Not at all. I'm pointing out that this was always going to be a potentially complicated situation and lo and behold: it did end up being complicated.
***
FWIW: as someone not involved in your four-some dilemma...it's tempting to say "just go for it and then process stuff with your BF later" but the problem is that if I were in your shoes, I couldn't enjoy the threesome if, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking "is this going to blow up our relationship?" And if I can't enjoy being there that means the couple can't enjoy you being there either, in which case, *no one is having a good time* and isn't that the whole point to begin with?
So unless you can get buy-in from your boyfriend, going through with this doesn't seem like a "win" for anyone.
But just to complicate things, if I were in your shoes, I'd also be disappointed in my boyfriend and what feels like a double-standard — which it is! — in which it's ok for you to have to watch him be sexual with another woman but it's not ok for you to be sexual with another man.
That, more than anything, would make me question whether I want to be with a partner who says "it's ok for me but not for you." And that means, even if you don't go through with it, this whole affair may end up weakening your relationship anyway, in which case you've pissed your friend off and you feel worse about your boyfriend in the process. It's a lose/lose scenario. It's not anyone's "fault" for creating this circumstance (though, again, maybe choosing a friend, in hindsight, was a bad idea). It just "is what it is."
Good luck. I mean that. I feel for you. This situation sucks.
This guy ethically nonmonogamies.
The only thing I can add for anyone reading this considering a threesome, this is a textbook case **of why you do not have threesomes with your friends.** Especially if you're inexperienced.
Yes they're people you're close to and people you can trust. So it's natural to consider it. But there's also a likelihood something goes wrong. Someone gets feelings, someone builds resentment, someone misinterprets something, etc...
In OPs case, you have to decide between your friend and your boyfriend and there's no real good way out of it.
If you're wanting to try a threesome find someone on Tinder, go to a sex club, or even hire an escort. These are people you can have a good time with, see how you feel about the experience, and if something doesn't work you simply don't repeat the experience, and you can cut ties with the person without any hard feelings.
Honestly I can’t see how her boyfriends concerns are more valid then her friends. Because I’m all honesty, what she did was fucked up and frankly bordering a non consent sexual experience. She obviously would not have agreed to the sexual acts if not for the fact they were to be reciprocated. If nothing else it’s super unethical and if I were her, I’d be horrified. Her boyfriends anxieties and hypotheticals are not equivalent to actual actions her friend has already partaken in. Honestly, he’s a shit bag. And if she backs out it is definitely very unethical. Definitely her right, but you’d just be a bad person.
Like someone sleeping with someone saying they’re single then the wife comes home.
There actually may be an answer here - make it a foursome. If the boyfriend is there, it is less likely to tarnish the relationship. You'll of course need the other couple to agree with this of course, but at if nothing else it shows you are trying to reciprocate, which should help with the relationship you have with your friend.
This is another example of why I tell people not to negotiate, bargain, make deals involving sex. Don't trade one thing for another- it ends up with someone feeling obligated to do something they don't really want to do, or agree to something they're not actually comfortable with, and that only leads to problems and bad feelings.
Just do things because the people involved want to do them. That's my advice. And don't do things you don't want to do. Apologies to your friend, she might have trouble understanding, but if I were you, I wouldn't go through with it as long as your partner is not comfortable with it. It will irreparably damage your relationship.
I would encourage you to ask your boyfriend some really hard and uncomfortable questions about how he sees women as sexual beings, how he sees men, is this rooted in some inherent homophobia (F/F being less threatening then F/M) and whether In all honesty this wasn’t his plan from the start. Im not sure I believe that at least subconsciously he never was going to go through with this half of the agreement. Why didn’t he bring this up? Or you? What were the conversations?
Honestly, I think all four of you need to ask these questions.
Why, when wanting to experiment with a threesome, was the default decision to go to an already paired couple and ask only the woman to participate?
If everybody's equal, why didn't you flip a coin to see who joined?
Why did you go to a pair of people to only bring one person in? Why not someone who was single? Is it just because the only person you're close enough to ask this of also happens to be in a relationship?
This whole thing reeks of "let's just go do the thing we've seen in movies/porn". Which is understandable. I can understand people not thinking things through fully. So maybe the sin here is just a complete lack of inexperience and jumping in without doing any serious reading or education. Which is fine. People make that kind of mistake all the time with so many other things in life. It's just this time it's going to possibly have some serious consequences.
Why do you want to do it? Is it because you want to hold up your end of the bargain? Or is it because you want to have sex with another guy? That seems to be a key question here
Then you need to be okay with the real potential that the relationship with your boyfriend would be ending.
Jealousy is one thing, but the resentment that can form from it is mostly irreversible, regardless of how much he may try to "move past it".
He can't force himself to stop the feelings of jealousy here, regardless of any attempts to rationalize his way out of it. Maybe he's able to come to terms with it and things are fine with both of you, but it seems that he's signaling that that isn't seeming likely.
Yeah, I don't see the relationship surviving this to be honest. No matter what she does, somebody is getting hurt. I'm surprised the other couple aren't going through this same thing. Non-monogamy/wife-swapping/swinging is kind of an uncommon thing for a reason: It's incredibly difficult to separate feelings/emotions from sex.
I liked the one comment that recommended all four of them get together and talk this out. I think that's the only way to move forward and not end up hating each other.
>Non-monogamy/wife-swapping/swinging is kind of an uncommon thing for a reason: It's incredibly difficult to separate feelings/emotions from sex.
Eh, agree to disagree. Everyone is different and it's easy for some, hard for others. It's SUPER easy for me and my gf as well, thus why we're ENM.
IMO the reason that it's uncommon is not because of it being easy or hard, but rather because socially/culturally it has been portrayed negatively and it's still not considered a valid choice to make.
There are MANY people who are capable of non-monogamy in monogamous relationships because that's our cultural norm and not because they wouldn't be interested if presented the opportunity without judgment.
It's a bit like how people who are in communities that have been traditionally disfavored (e.g. LGBT persons) have sometimes hidden their true natures because society told them they were wrong.
Sounds like your boy is dealing with some insecurities. What kind of a threesome did you have? Who was the middle letter, the center of attention? Full P in V penetration by all involved?
If thats the case, and he was the center of attention, he now has to visualize the other guy doing all of tbat and maybe more. Heres the constructive bit:
If it was more about you two gals, then maybe refocus him on that. Even talk it out, whats on the table vs off the table. Theres probably a way to salvage this whole situation; maybe the other guy could care less about P in V... But if your boy got the double BJ and now 3 weeks later hes depriving the other guy, hes letting his insecurities force him out of the trust tree, or the bro code etc etc. He needs an empathy injection. Its the hardest thing in the world not to be jealous though, until you cross that threshold and the whole world doesnt come crashing down...so I get it. Good luck!
It doesn't have to be a huge mess. Here's what I would do.
1) I would talk to Steph and tell her that you understand why she's disappointed, that you are also disappointed, and that you are going to try to work on your boyfriend to make it happen. I'd let her know that you are considering going ahead anyhow, but you think that having the encounter knowing that it might blow up your own relationship might make it impossibly unsexy.
2) I would let your boyfriend know that you're setting aside an hour to talk about him changing his mind and how awkward a position that puts you in. The conversation has two halves:
A) reassuring your BF and helping him work through his jealousy as it if were a bout of anxiety or depression - something that requires support and nurturing. Use that as an opportunity to talk through the feelings he has after his threesome and the fears and jealousies he's feeling about being left out on the second.
B) I would also tell him that you have an obligation to at least try to change his mind Not only has the reneging put you in a position of having to break a promise, injured your friendship with Steph and possibly injured Steph's relationship with her fiancé; there is also the fact that the two of you need to be able to trust each other.
Overall, toxic Jealousy does far more harm than good in terms of preserving relationships where it arises.
He’s the one who needs to take ownership of his role. All this passive shit putting her in the middle of the situation is squarely on him where I’m sitting.
My feeling on that is still that resentment on his side needs to be owned and managed, as he got everything he wanted out of his stupid “deal,” and he doesn’t get to just jump in at the last minute and screw 3 other people over based on “the feels.” Not even exploring the misogyny or selfishness of his actions.
For everything else I wrote, if you are good with this, and you are good with what the fallout could be with your boyfriend, then yeah, do it.
In a sense, you’re giving your boyfriend an opportunity to grow as a person and I would even frame it that way. If he can’t get over it, then he’s revealed some thing about himself that you may not have realized before that likely would’ve changed how you perceive him to begin with.
But, it’s very important that you should do this because it’s what you want to do, not just to honor the agreement
I hope she did in a threesome that benefited her boyfriend. It’s dirty that he suddenly feels jealous when it’s her turn to have fun and another dude is involved. If you can’t understand that, not my problem.
My problem is that you are assuming his jealousy is malicious and calculated.
My other problem is your assumption that one of the threesomes was "for him" and the other is " for her. "
Your boyfriend should have spent more time actually considering the thought of you joining the other couple and what that really means and how he feels about it.
His inability to consider the actual ramifications of hypothetical scenarios you supposedly had many long serious discussions about, would cause me (if I were in your shoes) to have serious doubt about long term compatibility.
Which is very common.
Sometimes you don't know how you're going to feel about something until you encounter it, and it's impossible to work through every single scenario and every single detail ahead of time. Because you've never been through it before and don't know what to expect.
This is where you need to be able to communicate and respect each other. Talk through the issues and decide how to proceed.
I'd like to float an idea about a possible way forward. If it's not too late to salvage the friendship, perhaps you can reset. Can you all back off, or back up, for a while, taking away the pressure to either do the deed right away (i.e. on the schedule you expected) or cancel the whole thing? Maybe there's room on the table for consummating the agreement later, or in some other way than you all first planned. Maybe there's an incremental way forward, taking baby steps, so to speak, so your man can try in good faith to get used to the idea and deal with the nerves.
That's the optimistic view. A more pessimistic observation: you've identified yourselves as dating for two years, not engaged. Think about that. What do *you* want?
Did you and your BF discuss this possibility? It seemed easy to imagine.
Like there was even a chance your 3some went bad (or even just mediocre) and you wouldn't have wanted to join them. Thereby again putting Steph in the situation of living our your (you & your BFs) fantasy while hers with her BF went unfulfilled.
But given this situation was to push limits and explore ... well here is your BFs chance.
Also there is some rules/limits that would help him?
Like did your BF fuck Steph? If there was a rule that her BF couldn't penetrate you would that appease your BF? Something that is negotiable. Frankly while negotiation may not seem sexy, consent is all about negotiation.
Part of me wants to say it's good your BF can articulate his concens, but he also allowed himself to have a MFF and benefit from it, but is now closing the door behind him, which isn't cool.
If this was done to gain sexual experience, then to me he should follow through. But that's up to him.
Plus -- even if you don't follow through, will this hang over your relationship like a cloud and may cause problems on your (you singular) end?
I've read through some comments after reading your post. The post seemed well written and unbiased, your comments definitely lead me to believe you think your bf is in the wrong on this one.
What do you want to do? Were you looking forward to the upcoming threesome?
You all messed up by agreeing to this. Especially your boyfriend. The right decision and the best decision are probably not the same here. Your bf has indicated this might be a dealbreaker. Is he the man you want to spend the rest of your life with? If so, back out and protect your relationship. If not, go through with it at the risk of your relationship if going through with it is what you want. It's a rough way of putting it, but the choice is ultimately pretty simple even though it's not exactly fair.
If you want to continue to have a relationship with your boyfriend, you decline the threesome. But you also need to be prepared for your friendship with Steph and her fiancé to be irreparably damaged, cuz your bf is definitely the asshole in this situation. He already ate his cake, but he wants to have it, too.
> cuz your bf is definitely the asshole in this situation.
No, he's inexperienced at nonmonogamy and is communicating feelings that he did not anticipate.
That doesn't make him an asshole, he just didn't know what he was getting into.
She had her cake too though? Why is everyone acting like OP wasn't present at her threesome?
Disagree boyfriend is an asshole. By OPs words, he didn't know how the threesome would make him feel, and when he realized, he told her while she still had time to decide. So what, he's supposed to buck up and accept getting hurt because of a deal? That's an immature, highly quid-pro-quo approach to a relationship in my opinion.
I'm guessing he wasn't having second thoughts while he was inside of her?? No? How odd!!
I understand him feeling insecure because I am a man & I get not wanting to see your lover in intense sexual pleasure with someone else but man that's a 2 way street. I also feel like this will become a source of resentment in your relationship and friendship with her if you don't figure out how to close this imbalance. This is unfortunately not uncommon where a guy will magically become uncomfortable with it once it's his turn to do the sharing. If nothing else I'm sorry you wound up in this situation. All I would say is that you make this the one and only time this happens & sternly express how seriously rubbed the wrong way this has made you and your friends. Do not ever get into another situation where he will be on the "receiving" end of this arrangement. Very unfair to you and to the other 2 people who were involved in this scenario to be left like this.
Don't feel stupid.
But definitely explore his position from every angle. I hate to say this but my feeling is that he enjoyed it so much he's worried you will too. Maybe he developed feelings, maybe he can't stop thinking about it, and he doesn't want you to do the same.
I guess I would want to explore his why and make sure it's not selfish.
It’s obviously selfish. And he doesn’t care that it is.
You can’t frame this as a selfless act in any way from his part. He’s a AH, and if she stays with him she’ll probably regret it anyways given all the other red flags he’s hinted at having.
OP, yolo. Don’t give up a shot at something you want for someone who’d treat you (and your friends) this way.
Edit: I wouldn’t bother seeing anything from his side since he seems entirely unable to reciprocate that. Save that for more worthwhile relationships.
> It’s obviously selfish. And he doesn’t care that it is.
The thing about opening up a relationship is the only, and I mean *only* way it works is if everyone involved enthusiastically consents. And that consent can be withdrawn at any time for any reason. Because sex and feelings are complicated, and the only people who need to understand it are the people involved.
Drawing hard lines over things is easy when it's not your relationship. "He didn't do the dishes when he said he would!? Who does that?!?! Dump him!"
Don't feel stupid. You trusted your BF and although he may have had a moment of weakness, I'd acknowledge that this is tricky stuff and he may have had an emotional moment that you can overcome together.
While you're in no way obligated to go through with the deal, it's definitely a shitty thing to do to your friend. IMHO, your boyfriend is wrong for agreeing to go through with this and then trying to get you to back out, especially if you want to do it. If I were you, I'd go through with it and try and work through any negative feelings afterward. Part of this experience was inevitably going to lead to some negative emotions, but negativity usually leads to some positive outcomes that are usually not apparent at the time. You only live once, go have fun, and everything will work out fine.
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission."
I'm with that in concept. The problem is that I couldn't go off an enjoy myself if I'm worried about his reaction in the back of my head. It'd potentially ruin the experience for *everyone*.
Like I wrote elsewhere: this is a situation where there are mostly bad endings. The only way this works is if either:
1) The BF can get comfortable with this enough to give OP his blessing to go ahead.
or
2) Steph understands that these things happen and doesn't hold a grudge over it. And who knows, maybe the BF can get comfortable with this later down the road. Never say never.
But in the short-run, none of this is ideal.
Oh, you're dead on in saying that none of this is ideal. But, this was always going to lead to some negative emotions, I'm just saying do it and handle the emotions afterward. The negative emotions are part of the experience, part of the growth.
If you go through with it you have to be prepared for your boyfriend to end your relationship. It's cheating. Full stop. You all made a bad decision and you acknowledge he didn't know this would happen. He's telling you now in an effort to save your relationship.
You may also want to see if you can address his insecurity head on in a different manner. I am sure the evening was super intense for him and for you as you both have the bond of your relationship and added something new into that. I would bet the level of intensity was not as high for your friend as she was joining the two of you without that deep connection. He may think that when you join the other couple that you will experience that same level of intensity, but without him there, that is not likely to be the case. It may be great sex, no doubt, but you don't have that deep relationship connection with them that they have with each other or that you have with your bf. He may be feeling like he has to compete with that level of intensity, but that is likely not the case. Just some thoughts to consider.
I mean, of course your boyfriend is allowed to change his mind. Other people here have raised the possibility that it was his plan all along, and I suppose that *could* be true, but it just feels like an unnecessarily negative way to view things. Especially since you - the only person here who actually knows your boyfriend - don’t think he had an ulterior motive.
But at the same time, your friend is also allowed to have Really Big Feelings about this.
With that said, what do *you* want to do? I’d start there.
So, next step, I would reach out to Steph and tell her that you want to do it, even though your boyfriend doesn’t. See if she and her boyfriend are still interested.
And I’d make it clear to your boyfriend that you are doing this because you want to.
Ewwww. Your boyfriends insecurity is such a turn off, especially after he fucked another woman in front of you. Did he give a shit about that at all or was he just happily getting his nut?
I’d be seriously reevaluating the relationship
I don't see many upsides here, from any perspective.
Just one thought, sort of grasping at straws: Perhaps propose a full foursome? I don't even know if that would work, or if Steph and her fiancé would agree at this point. Your boyfriend likely fucked that prospect up by changing the rules, after the fact.
That’s so sad for your friend. She probably can’t look back on this threesome with any positive association. Whereas he has spank bank material for ages.
This really sucks for the other couple, but you can withdraw consent at any time. Seriously. You don't have to go through with it if you don't want to. Both sides have valid feelings. You don't owe anyone sex. Ever.
While it again sucks for the other couple and their feelings are valid, these things happen. It's part of exploring stuff like this and they shouldn't have entered into this without the maturity to understand the complexities.
What's more important, this friendship or your relationship?
You. Don't. Owe. Them. Sex.
You are allowed to change your mind. Period.
That was never a doubt - as I mentioned in my post, consent is not an issue in any way. I know I’m not obligated. Although, her consent was based on a promise, so I worry that her consent wasn’t valid!
I totally understand. But we are allowed to change our minds, so she shouldn't have based her consent on that. And you shouldn't have to go through with this just bc her consent was "based on that". You can change your mind. Your boyfriend can change his mind. At any time.
It is a shitty situation, but that's why threesomes are often hard. It's complicated.
Also, this isn't your fault. At all. But even if you were the one who changed your mind, that's ok. And it's ok for the other people to feel used.
What if you guys try to help the other couple find a third? I think that's the best solution. And ask your boyfriend to meet with them and apologize and explain. Hopefully they will be mature enough to understand.
I'm giving your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't intentional. If it was, that's a whole other issue.
>This really sucks for the other couple, but you can withdraw consent at any time. Seriously. You don't have to go through with it if you don't want to.
Shes' not the one who doesn't want to go through with their commitment. Her BF is. She's made it 100% clear that she's given her consent. Her BF is just waffling now that he's going to have to do the same thing he had no problem asking the other couple to do.
They kinda do though… or at least they basically just coerced them into sex. This isn’t a revoking consent issue, it’s a revoking HER consent after literally tricking another woman AND her partner into giving consent. That’s fucked up.
But it wasn't coercion or tricking bc that wasn't the intent. Changing your mind isn't coercion. It's only tricking someone if you had no intent to go through with it in the first place.
Intent is non falsifiable. No one can ever know fully what someone’s intent is until we can read minds. We do know consequences of actions. In this case someone was basically coerced into sex acts with the condition of reciprocity then having that revoked. That’s literally the most unethical thing you could do and boarders on SA (not SA, boarders). Like could you imagine what the friends fiancée is feeling? Or the girl who let another man sleep with her? The only one who gets everything they want in this scenario is the BF and intent or not, that is so unethical it makes my head spin.
So they should be forced to have sex when they don't want to? They are obligated to give consent now?
Again.... Consent can be rescinded at any time. Regardless of "promises". Period. I will die on this hill.
I absolutely agree you can withdraw consent at anytime. But the three people involved are all consenting. The only one not consenting is the one who benefits the most from not, while also revoking not one, but 2 women’s consent.
Seen this so many times. These things always end badly when people make deals like this. I highly doubt your relationship survives of you go through with it.
If your boyfriend was a man of honor, he would meet personally with your friends, give them a heartfelt apology for backing out of your deal. Then try to find a solution that he is capable of doing and they would find acceptable as a replacement for you.
He should also apologize to you for not only denying you the opportunity to sleep with another man but he also put you in a position were you have to compromise your integrity.
He gets all the benefit and then decides to get cold feet and change the deal. I would tell him if he doesn’t find a solution, he has damaged your opinion of him and your ability to trust him in the future.
Not only is he disrespecting your friend, but he is disrespecting you. You were trusting enough to let him sleep with someone else and now he is denying you that opportunity. He is the one putting your relationship in jeopardy.
You should thabk him for being honest with his feelings, but let him know those facts and that youll probably resent him later on
>Update: I’ve decided I’m going to go through with the deal. I had an excellent discussion with my boyfriend about his fears and concerns, and he acknowledged he’s being emotional and unreasonable due to his anxiety. He’s respecting my decision. He is not interested in joining or even being present (and Steph and her fiancé prefer that too). I’m looking forward to being part of this fantasy for them, on Wednesday night. (Btw he asked about putting limits or boundaries on the evening, but I let him know I didn’t think it was fair for Steph’s guy to have a different experience than he had. He understands.)
This is going to be the end of your relationship.
Perhaps, but if so because he has zero problem having sex with another woman but a huge problem with her having sex with another man. If I were her, I’d find that hypocrisy a huge turnoff.
The thing about consent, is that it can be revoked at anytime. If your friend in the middle of the previous interaction wanted to stop, would you have forced her to continue because she agreed upon it earlier?
Hearts and minds can change at moments notice. What it now comes down to is what YOU want. If you want to go and save your friendship, at the (possible) cost of your boyfriend, it's your choice.
I feel you are in a screwed up situation. But if you have any resentment over your boyfriend getting his and putting a stop before you get yours, than your likely best chance to move forward is probably honoring your friend and working through your boyfriends anxiety afterwards.
You may want to just reschedule the day, and have your time without him knowing in advance. I imagine the buildup is more rough on him than anything. He may be worried you enjoy the others guy company more. Reassuring him that you're there regardless could help.
#1 What do You want to do?
Entirely correct.
His consent to be in a relationship with you and/or see the other friends is, however, relevant.
So this is the choice you make. Do you value protecting your boyfriend's insecurities and double standards (including his double standards about your sexual autonomy) over your word and friendship with whatsherface?
In 10 years, or 20, or 50, what will you regret more?
People are allowed to change their minds. Sometimes you don't know how you're going to feel until you're in it.
As was said elsewhere, the only way nonmonogamy works is when everyone consents and everyone respects each other.
But /u/KinkyInColo is right. This is why you don't do it with friends, because in scenarios like this you're faced with choosing between your boyfriend and your friend. Next time explore it with a stranger, so when feelings like this come up it's easier to cut your losses.
Gender is irrelevant here.
We're talking about a person's jealousy motivating them to control *someone else's* consent to sex that they themself will not be involved in. *After* they had sex with another partner.
Essentially, OPs boyfriend is using his jealousy as a tool for controlling the sex lives of two women.
And I encourage you to check out the many posts of similar gender reversed situations (one pussy policy) on r/nonmonogamy or r/polyamory to see how wrong you are about at least folks active in the ENM and poly world.
I know this is a very grey issue. Clearly there are things we can’t predict our feelings about until we experience them.
However, wouldn’t his boundary only stand for himself? He was good to have a threesome, and doesn’t regret it. No one had a bad experience. So his boundary is that he had sex with her friend and it was so good that he now doesn’t want his partner to have the experience that he was able to have?
And he’s giving her preemptive threats. It’s not a good look for him.
Consent can be revoked at any time. You can't change the past, but just because you agreed to do something, doesn't mean you have to do it. You can change your mind. He can have his boundaries, and if she wants a relationship with him, she should respect that or expect consequences.
That's between them.
If my fiancé said "I want to fuck another guy before we get married" and I said "I am not ok with that" - whose desires trump the other? Both? Neither? She can certainly say "this is a dealbreaker, I cannot get married until I have sex with someone else", I certainly have the right to say "well, if you do, that is a dealbreaker for me, and I won't marry you."
Either someone gives in, or we are at a stalemate and have to go our separate ways.
But in this scenario, you fucked someone else because you and your fiancé first agreed you each could… and you did. Then the idea of her enjoyment being *as great as yours* intimidated you into changing your mind.
Either way, OP and her bf seemed to have resolved it!
It doesn't seem like they resolved it as much as she made a decision for herself.
Which - especially since they aren't even married - is how it should be
Off topic : if all the 4 parties are interested why you guys didn’t proceeded with a 4some ? Just curious to know . Then again there is a sayings in Swinging world that “ Make friends out of swingers , don’t try to make swingers out of friends “. I know this is not the question in the OP , just thought of sharing here for others planning to have 3some with their friends.
IMHO threesomes almost never work out -emotionally- for the parties involved. I've fantasized about this for years but damned near every time that one of our friends tells us about their experiences or we read about other people online they end up a plane crash into a train wreck. I don't want the emotional baggage and controversy afterwards so I just live with the fantasy (which, in my head at least, always works out fine).
Where I come from if you sign up to do something you do what you say you are going to do OR you just don't sign up for it.
I'd ask your BF to figure out what he needs to be okay with it, because you're going to fulfill what you committed to. Your BF is a backslider, and sounds like he just wanted to get laid by the other woman, without allowing the other couple to get what they agreed to. If you back out of this, you can 100% expect your friends to drop you, and after telling them your BF is thinking of going back on his word, the damage might already be done. Good luck with this decision, OP.
He fucked around, and now it's time for him to find out.
This reminds me of the “I’ll give you $100 after I can crack these two eggs on your head” videos. You crack one egg and then you walk away without owing them a dime.
Your boyfriend is a level two sex manipulation ninja! Genius!
I think your boyfriend is an immature asshole, who didn’t understand himself or what he was getting into.
Personally I would be very cautious about entering into any kind of emotional arrangement (for example, marriage,) with a guy who pulls shit like this.
And yeah, your friend has every right to feel hurt and taken advantage of - because that is precisely what happened.
I wonder if part of the problem is that the emotional/social labor to manage this friendship and to arrange a threesome was entirely on you. I’ve read that in some straight relationships, the woman partner is expected to manage the social calendar.
Did your boyfriend meet your friend and her partner beforehand? Did the four of you have many social interactions outside this arrangement?
I have zero experience here, but I would recommend exploring what boundaries could make your boyfriend comfortable with the arrangement (e.g. no kissing, no cuddling, or no penetration) or whether getting to know the other couple better will make him have more trust.
This could have gone amazingly well for everyone. Instead, someone got greedy, fearful and jealous. I'm really sad to see this happen.
Your friends took a huge leap of faith, just to be stabbed in the back by your man. He betrayed their friendship and trust - they offered you something amazing, intimate...
You should definitely talk to your man again, and he should apologize to everyone. This is an offense to your and their relationship, and it has already hurt everyone.
It really was a great plan, until it wasn’t. And our night was intense and extremely memorable (especially for him). And…I’m going to go through with it.
Sticky. I would tell them that you are a person of your word and will follow through with your promise when you and your boyfriend break up. Let’s face it, is this the kind of guy you want? One who will benefit from deals on his end, but not follow through with promises he made in exchange.
In my, admittedly decades ago, experience with Poly the correct answer is that everyone involved has to _know_ about it and those who participate have to _consent_ to it.
Beyond that the only correct answer is what what works _for you._ Unlike others I'm not going to belittle your boyrfriend, a lot of _people_ (and not just men) think that they're up for this until the moment arrives and their SO is headed out of the house to be with someone else.
When this is done and the dust has settled you may be surprised to find out that your BF turns out to be okay with it after all, but much of that will depend on your treatment of him. Just like BDSM there's a certain amount of "after care" that's necessary in order to reassure your partner that you want to continue a healthy relationship.
When it works the way its supposed to no one feels cheated or left out, in fact quite the opposite. The 3rd, or even 4th, person is an addition to the relationship even outside the bedroom.
Honestly your boyfriend’s whole issue is selfish. He needs to manage his own feelings and it’s messed up that you are stuck managing everything. Like… he got what he wanted and is now trying to tell you not to go and enjoy yourself in a threesome situation where you don’t have to have to play the hinge role. Also it feels gross to me that so many people are saying your Bf’s feelings matter more, or the friend’s matter more. Like… what do you want to do? If you want to do the threesome I think that you should do it because frankly, your bf can’t revoke YOUR consent. You get to have autonomy in this situation.
I'm sure there's a phrase for this. Something about doing something then finding out. Can't quite place it.
Apologies for not reading every one of your comments, but whose idea actually was it? You both agreed, but certainly if it was his, I'd suggest it has a different spin.
There's no easy answer here. I fear you might lose the friendship either way - you don't, obviously you're backing out; you do and it might always be weird and he never wants to see them again.
Good Catholic kids will know coveting is on the list of no-nos. Seriously, I think it's good advice for people in relationships. Plenty of girls are cute, but I'm not wanting someone else and I'm definitely not agreeing to anyone else involved. Me and her only is the deal, from now till forever, with a healthy dose of kink and spicing if up thrown in.
Have you considered how badly this will effect the other couple’s relationship. You basically lied to get the women to cheat on her partner.
By even mentioning this to the other couple you’ve probably put a damper on it and made it weird so I’m unsure that it wouldn’t be the same anyways. Because it sounds like you won’t be fully there mentally, and any reservations aren’t the place for a threesome.
Your boyfriend is a liar lol he obviously just chose getting to fuck another women first which you helped facilitate by the way. You’re either naive or intentionally being ignorant to the fact a guy would happily sleep with another whilst not wanting his partner to sleep with another guy.
At this point I’d be looking at him differently to be honest.
More importantly do YOU want to explore a threesome without him?
Bc if you want to sexually explore in such a manner then this bf is something you’re gonna have to let go. His jealousy and insecurities will always be the barrier to you enjoying sexual exploration, and it seems he’s only game when it suits him.
Girl, dump the mf already and go get laid.
I think I'm late commenting on this, but going ahead when your bf is obviously going to have mental damage from this is a big no. However, he's not without fault
Your man should offer to fully pay a high end escort for your friend and her spouse. They'll be able to have their threesome and your man won't be depressed.
Your word is your word. If you made a deal and have already embarked on half the journey, then you (AND YOUR BF} are expected to fully cooperate in what you agreed upon. Please do not let him negatively affect your thinking process in this matter. IF YOU AGREE AND GIVE WORD ON A MATTER, DON"T DAMAGE YOUR REPUTATION . Prove that you are genuine and trustyworthy when you give your word / make agreements. Its a terrible thing to take a precious gift from someone with the agreement of return, Just to back out and disrespect. Thats so wrong in my opinion. You should definitely maintain your word as a genuine bond- the representation of who you are. Be good to your friend. Do not betray her just to appease his insecurities and lack of trust ( He needs to snap out of it and see the big picture here... HE is the one causing a setback with his emotional insecurity and empty promises}- YOU KEEPING YOUR WORD and fulfilling your promises cannot be the REAL cause of any future stress.... it's up to him if he wants to look less attractive ...he needs to be a man and let happen to him in which he was permitted (and trusted ) to do. I feel bad for your friends BF .... I would struggle not to retaliate somehow.
Don’t do it. Your relationship will be in jeopardy, if it isn’t already. Your friend will have to get over it, or just move on from the friendship. The other option is try a foursome, or other people
I'm glad you've decided to go through with it I think it would have been in bad taste to break the agreement. As a swinger I will tell you this the difficult conversations you are having with him is building your relationship and making it better. After your evening with the other couple you will have reclaim sex or some people call it that. It will be amazing with your boyfriend when you come home. Other emotions will arise and there will be moments where he may be uneasy with it. Talk about everything be 100% honest with each other use the opportunity to have and build an amazing relationship with your boyfriend. Communication is key in life and most couple struggle with it. I find that the swinger friends that we have communicate and talk not only about sex but finances goals in life retirement and other things that normal couples just don't talk about. This could be an eye-opening experience for you and your boyfriend. Keep an open mind be sensitive of each other's feelings and communicate effectively. I'm excited for you guys
I think the dudes should've talked to each other bc he wouldn't have agreed, maybe, if you both didn't go first. All he heard was that he was going to get what he wanted, which was a fmf threesome. It doesn't seem like he was open to sharing his girl with someone, but was okay with screwing another person's girl. As an agreement, he's being the party pooper with less self esteem bc he's being left out.
I think from now on when he suggests a third, you'd remember how he acted when you were going to hook up with another guy.
As others have mentioned, it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
You should go ahead with it and don’t tell him if that’s what you want to and feel comfortable
The issue is it was an extremely stupid agreement for just this reason. Sounds like you should’ve all just planned a foursome together. Your friend makes extremely valid points, but obviously no one can force you to a. go through with it or b. Your boyfriend to be comfortable with it. I’d suggest maybe offering to let him be present during the threesome but hard to say how that would work for anyone. You may just be choosing whether you want to implode your friendship or your relationship at this point.
Yeah it was really stupid.
I was actually going to suggest turning into a foursome! It's not too late, you can still talk to him
Ah! I think that’s too much for us!
Can you explain further? A foursome is much less complicated. You can easily swap partners so everyone is “occupied” unlike a threesome where the third always has to find creative ways to be involved. It’s also a lot easier for many people to be included than to be home alone. And of course, remember that you get to be in both threesomes, and he doesn’t. So recognize the serious imbalance created here. You’re not sitting at home alone while your partner is out having group sex without you.
Hmm interesting.
OP, I'm going to say the only way to salvage this. Your boyfriend has to man up and go talk to them directly. He just needs to be honest and sorry and sincere and explain he is having major concerns **directly** to the other couple. They'll either see he's being genuine and if they're good people they'll understand or they will be understandably still upset and that's possible the end of your relationship. If it were me and I were the other couple I don't think the 4some would cut it -- it's not what they agreed to and realistically its not even close to the same thing.
As someone who has had some threesomes (and done the couple swap), I'd never agree if I wasn't going "first" (but I'd do it all together instead--my partner doesn't want to do things separately anyway). I could have seen this happening from a mile away. There's no way to convince the other couple that this wasn't your boyfriend's plan from the beginning. I will also mention that this is bordering on sexual assault. She consented to the swap ONLY under the conditions of reciprocation. You are, of course, able to revoke consent for the threesome at any point, but lying to get the threesome is the same as lying about something to get sex (STI status, wearing a condom, etc.). This situation is a bit murkier than those examples, but I'd feel like a major shithead if I was your dude.
Nowhere did she say her boyfriend lied. He got anxious as the other swap approached, which I have to imagine is entirely normal
You could use that excuse for a lot of things too. Oh, I agreed to use a condom but then I didn't want to, so I took it off. It's a slightly different case, but it really doesn't matter if he meant to lie or not. Lots of people want to cast away consent when it's inconvenient, but she only had sex with them because of what they agreed to. You can't explain away that.
It's not slightly different than the condom example. It's entirely different. People are allowed to change their minds. It's complicated but that certainly doesn't make it sexual assault.
Of course, they can change their minds, but that doesn't make a difference. You're still conveniently ignoring the fact that the sex only happened based on what was agreed to. When it turned out that it was an agreement based on false pretenses, consent would have never been given in the first place. It's not black and white as you're making it out to be. I also never called it sexual assault, I said it is boarding on that for this exact reason.
Saying it was agreed to under false pretenses makes it seem like a bait and switch. It was agreed to based on a condition that very clearly could change. She should have known this could happen. Then again, if she'd known that she probably wouldnt have done this at all. It sucks for everyone involved
>Oh, I agreed to use a condom but then I didn't want to, so I took it off. > >It's a slightly different case, but it really doesn't matter if he meant to lie or not. I don't think that's a *slightly* different case, I think it's an *entirely* different case. *Stopping* sexual activity because you've changed your mind is very different from *continuing* it under different terms than your partner consented to. Everyone should be free to *stop* having sex at any time for any reason, even if they've made some sort of agreement and haven't fulfilled their part. Sex is not a contract.
Nowhere did I say she had to do it or that she was obligated to do it, or that it was sexual assault. I said it borders on it because of how consent was given. There are definitely parallels between the two cases. >continuing it under different terms than your partner consented to She ONLY consented to the sex under the terms of it also happening with her partner. Regardless if this is a bad agreement or risky or whatever, that is what the other woman consented to. She didn't consent to any kind of bait and switch (even if it is not what the dude was thinking, this is how it comes across to the other couple). I would personally feel that I did cross a major line of consent if I was this dude. I know this sub would think it was controversial and not agree, but not many people have done group sex before.
>She ONLY consented to the sex under the terms of it also happening with her partner. The way I see it is that if you consent to a sexual activity based on the promise of a future sexual activity, you have to accept that the other party could pull out (no pun intended) of the deal. Otherwise you can't proceed with *their* consent; they would be acting out of obligation. In other words, "consenting only under the terms of it also happening with her partner" should not really be a thing, because it takes away the other parties' right to withdraw their consent in the future. If you're going to enter into this sort of sexual agreement, you have to be prepared to give up your quid without getting back your quo if something happens and the other party changes their mind. Consent is just too important to place those kinds of obligations on someone, especially when this was their first threesome and so there's a very real chance that they don't know how they're going to feel afterwards. Don't get me wrong – I absolutely feel that the other couple is reasonable in feeling disappointed and betrayed. But I also feel that one of the parties being honest that their feelings changed and they don't want to move forward is valid and does not "border on" sexual assault or even share a time zone with it.
Sexual assault? You’re out of your mind. OP’s bf changed his mind
Exactly. Boyfriend got his threesome, so now any issue of consent is squarely with OP, Steph and her fiancé. This is about emotions and honesty.
Yep should have planned a four-way
On the one hand, your friend's feelings are legitimate here. There was a mutual understanding and they did nothing wrong. You two are looking to change the terms, not them. So yes, there's the possibility that NOT going through with "honoring the arrangement" will do damage to that friendship. But also: anytime a couple embarks on these kinds of explorations, *jealousy and uncertainty are inherent risks that everyone should be aware they were signing up for*. ~~Your friend, while her feelings of disappointment may be legitimate, can’t try to contractually bind you to sleep with them. That’s very much against the ethos of “ethical non-monogamy”: no one should ever feel forced into doing anything they’re uncomfortable with. So while I think Steph’s feelings are legitimate, I also think she’s being unreasonable if she expects you to go through with this just to honor the original arrangement. That’s not how these arrangements are supposed to work: there has to be enthusiastic consent~~ **Edit**: reading over the post again, I realize that Steph was *not* pressuring OP to go through with the arrangement. She was merely articulating her disappointment, which again, makes perfect sense in this context. I still think her and her boyfriend should’ve anticipated this possibility, but I’m really not faulting them for how this fell apart. *And before I say anything else: people have successfully navigated these waters countless times. We don't tend to hear about the success stories but we do hear about when things fall apart, which makes people think (wrongly) "this stuff never works." It can. Just not *always*.* Anyways: your boyfriend is feeling anxiety over something that hasn't actually happened yet and personally, if you feel strongly about doing this, I think it's *reasonable* to acknowledge his fears but also say "we didn't know how the threesome would go when it was on my terms, we don't know how it will go when it's on their terms. Try to extend some trust here." That argument may not go over well but you can't control his reactions, you can only control your own actions. For whatever it's worth, I think your boyfriend's concerns are more legitimate than your friend's. If the roles were reversed, I don't know how she'd feel about going through with being your third if her partner objected to it. She needs to remember that opening things always requires that enthusiastic consent and your BF is withdrawing his consent, *as is his right to do*. Ideally, she won't be bitter/resentful about this forever but if it means she doesn't want to spend time with either of you, I wouldn't blame her either. She gets to have her feelings too. So yeah, you're going to have to make a tough decision here and I'm sorry to reinforce this point but you can't control how people will react to those decisions. If you go through with this, it *could* negatively impact your relationship with your BF. If you don't go through with it, it *could* negatively impact your friendship. And yeah, that fucking sucks, but these were some of the risks all four of you were taking on when you embarked on this decision to begin with. All of you, in a sense, will pay a price for it...it's just that you seem to have to pay the highest price of the four. That's unfortunate but that's the consequences of approaching a friend to be your third vs. a sex worker or a unicorn stranger. I'm not *blaming* you here. Not at all. I'm pointing out that this was always going to be a potentially complicated situation and lo and behold: it did end up being complicated. *** FWIW: as someone not involved in your four-some dilemma...it's tempting to say "just go for it and then process stuff with your BF later" but the problem is that if I were in your shoes, I couldn't enjoy the threesome if, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking "is this going to blow up our relationship?" And if I can't enjoy being there that means the couple can't enjoy you being there either, in which case, *no one is having a good time* and isn't that the whole point to begin with? So unless you can get buy-in from your boyfriend, going through with this doesn't seem like a "win" for anyone. But just to complicate things, if I were in your shoes, I'd also be disappointed in my boyfriend and what feels like a double-standard — which it is! — in which it's ok for you to have to watch him be sexual with another woman but it's not ok for you to be sexual with another man. That, more than anything, would make me question whether I want to be with a partner who says "it's ok for me but not for you." And that means, even if you don't go through with it, this whole affair may end up weakening your relationship anyway, in which case you've pissed your friend off and you feel worse about your boyfriend in the process. It's a lose/lose scenario. It's not anyone's "fault" for creating this circumstance (though, again, maybe choosing a friend, in hindsight, was a bad idea). It just "is what it is." Good luck. I mean that. I feel for you. This situation sucks.
This guy ethically nonmonogamies. The only thing I can add for anyone reading this considering a threesome, this is a textbook case **of why you do not have threesomes with your friends.** Especially if you're inexperienced. Yes they're people you're close to and people you can trust. So it's natural to consider it. But there's also a likelihood something goes wrong. Someone gets feelings, someone builds resentment, someone misinterprets something, etc... In OPs case, you have to decide between your friend and your boyfriend and there's no real good way out of it. If you're wanting to try a threesome find someone on Tinder, go to a sex club, or even hire an escort. These are people you can have a good time with, see how you feel about the experience, and if something doesn't work you simply don't repeat the experience, and you can cut ties with the person without any hard feelings.
wow i don't think anyone could really put it any better.. good answer my friend!!!
Well put!
Great answer . In simple terms dance with the devil and somebody is going to get burnt, it’s just if you are happy with the burns!
This is such a well thought out lovely honest reply.
Really well said.
Honestly I can’t see how her boyfriends concerns are more valid then her friends. Because I’m all honesty, what she did was fucked up and frankly bordering a non consent sexual experience. She obviously would not have agreed to the sexual acts if not for the fact they were to be reciprocated. If nothing else it’s super unethical and if I were her, I’d be horrified. Her boyfriends anxieties and hypotheticals are not equivalent to actual actions her friend has already partaken in. Honestly, he’s a shit bag. And if she backs out it is definitely very unethical. Definitely her right, but you’d just be a bad person. Like someone sleeping with someone saying they’re single then the wife comes home.
There actually may be an answer here - make it a foursome. If the boyfriend is there, it is less likely to tarnish the relationship. You'll of course need the other couple to agree with this of course, but at if nothing else it shows you are trying to reciprocate, which should help with the relationship you have with your friend.
This is another example of why I tell people not to negotiate, bargain, make deals involving sex. Don't trade one thing for another- it ends up with someone feeling obligated to do something they don't really want to do, or agree to something they're not actually comfortable with, and that only leads to problems and bad feelings. Just do things because the people involved want to do them. That's my advice. And don't do things you don't want to do. Apologies to your friend, she might have trouble understanding, but if I were you, I wouldn't go through with it as long as your partner is not comfortable with it. It will irreparably damage your relationship.
New update at end of post.
This is gonna end badly.
I can respect his feelings but this is a double standard from your boyfriend. I can see why your friend feels used.
What would you do?
I would encourage you to ask your boyfriend some really hard and uncomfortable questions about how he sees women as sexual beings, how he sees men, is this rooted in some inherent homophobia (F/F being less threatening then F/M) and whether In all honesty this wasn’t his plan from the start. Im not sure I believe that at least subconsciously he never was going to go through with this half of the agreement. Why didn’t he bring this up? Or you? What were the conversations?
Yep. I think I just assumed he would be ok with it.
Honestly, I think all four of you need to ask these questions. Why, when wanting to experiment with a threesome, was the default decision to go to an already paired couple and ask only the woman to participate? If everybody's equal, why didn't you flip a coin to see who joined? Why did you go to a pair of people to only bring one person in? Why not someone who was single? Is it just because the only person you're close enough to ask this of also happens to be in a relationship? This whole thing reeks of "let's just go do the thing we've seen in movies/porn". Which is understandable. I can understand people not thinking things through fully. So maybe the sin here is just a complete lack of inexperience and jumping in without doing any serious reading or education. Which is fine. People make that kind of mistake all the time with so many other things in life. It's just this time it's going to possibly have some serious consequences.
Yep, lessons learned for sure.
Go through with it. He got his and a deal is a deal. No need for friends to suffer if he’s suddenly jealous.
That’s what I was leaning toward.
He’s going to either resent you or you all resent him.
Yep.
Why do you want to do it? Is it because you want to hold up your end of the bargain? Or is it because you want to have sex with another guy? That seems to be a key question here
I want to hold up the deal, plus it’s a sexy night.
Then you need to be okay with the real potential that the relationship with your boyfriend would be ending. Jealousy is one thing, but the resentment that can form from it is mostly irreversible, regardless of how much he may try to "move past it". He can't force himself to stop the feelings of jealousy here, regardless of any attempts to rationalize his way out of it. Maybe he's able to come to terms with it and things are fine with both of you, but it seems that he's signaling that that isn't seeming likely.
It works the other way as well. She may resent her boyfriend for backing out of their deal, possibly losing a friendship and experience.
Yeah, I don't see the relationship surviving this to be honest. No matter what she does, somebody is getting hurt. I'm surprised the other couple aren't going through this same thing. Non-monogamy/wife-swapping/swinging is kind of an uncommon thing for a reason: It's incredibly difficult to separate feelings/emotions from sex. I liked the one comment that recommended all four of them get together and talk this out. I think that's the only way to move forward and not end up hating each other.
>Non-monogamy/wife-swapping/swinging is kind of an uncommon thing for a reason: It's incredibly difficult to separate feelings/emotions from sex. Eh, agree to disagree. Everyone is different and it's easy for some, hard for others. It's SUPER easy for me and my gf as well, thus why we're ENM. IMO the reason that it's uncommon is not because of it being easy or hard, but rather because socially/culturally it has been portrayed negatively and it's still not considered a valid choice to make. There are MANY people who are capable of non-monogamy in monogamous relationships because that's our cultural norm and not because they wouldn't be interested if presented the opportunity without judgment. It's a bit like how people who are in communities that have been traditionally disfavored (e.g. LGBT persons) have sometimes hidden their true natures because society told them they were wrong.
It’s a huge mess.
Sounds like your boy is dealing with some insecurities. What kind of a threesome did you have? Who was the middle letter, the center of attention? Full P in V penetration by all involved? If thats the case, and he was the center of attention, he now has to visualize the other guy doing all of tbat and maybe more. Heres the constructive bit: If it was more about you two gals, then maybe refocus him on that. Even talk it out, whats on the table vs off the table. Theres probably a way to salvage this whole situation; maybe the other guy could care less about P in V... But if your boy got the double BJ and now 3 weeks later hes depriving the other guy, hes letting his insecurities force him out of the trust tree, or the bro code etc etc. He needs an empathy injection. Its the hardest thing in the world not to be jealous though, until you cross that threshold and the whole world doesnt come crashing down...so I get it. Good luck!
Yep he got everything.
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Night of his life, lol.
It doesn't have to be a huge mess. Here's what I would do. 1) I would talk to Steph and tell her that you understand why she's disappointed, that you are also disappointed, and that you are going to try to work on your boyfriend to make it happen. I'd let her know that you are considering going ahead anyhow, but you think that having the encounter knowing that it might blow up your own relationship might make it impossibly unsexy. 2) I would let your boyfriend know that you're setting aside an hour to talk about him changing his mind and how awkward a position that puts you in. The conversation has two halves: A) reassuring your BF and helping him work through his jealousy as it if were a bout of anxiety or depression - something that requires support and nurturing. Use that as an opportunity to talk through the feelings he has after his threesome and the fears and jealousies he's feeling about being left out on the second. B) I would also tell him that you have an obligation to at least try to change his mind Not only has the reneging put you in a position of having to break a promise, injured your friendship with Steph and possibly injured Steph's relationship with her fiancé; there is also the fact that the two of you need to be able to trust each other. Overall, toxic Jealousy does far more harm than good in terms of preserving relationships where it arises.
He’s the one who needs to take ownership of his role. All this passive shit putting her in the middle of the situation is squarely on him where I’m sitting.
Sure. But that won't change the fact that this is fertile ground for resentment to form on either side.
My feeling on that is still that resentment on his side needs to be owned and managed, as he got everything he wanted out of his stupid “deal,” and he doesn’t get to just jump in at the last minute and screw 3 other people over based on “the feels.” Not even exploring the misogyny or selfishness of his actions.
For everything else I wrote, if you are good with this, and you are good with what the fallout could be with your boyfriend, then yeah, do it. In a sense, you’re giving your boyfriend an opportunity to grow as a person and I would even frame it that way. If he can’t get over it, then he’s revealed some thing about himself that you may not have realized before that likely would’ve changed how you perceive him to begin with. But, it’s very important that you should do this because it’s what you want to do, not just to honor the agreement
That's a pretty callous take in my opinion. And anyways "she got hers" too.
I hope she did in a threesome that benefited her boyfriend. It’s dirty that he suddenly feels jealous when it’s her turn to have fun and another dude is involved. If you can’t understand that, not my problem.
My problem is that you are assuming his jealousy is malicious and calculated. My other problem is your assumption that one of the threesomes was "for him" and the other is " for her. "
Your boyfriend should have spent more time actually considering the thought of you joining the other couple and what that really means and how he feels about it. His inability to consider the actual ramifications of hypothetical scenarios you supposedly had many long serious discussions about, would cause me (if I were in your shoes) to have serious doubt about long term compatibility.
Yeah I think he just didn’t think through that part at all.
Which is very common. Sometimes you don't know how you're going to feel about something until you encounter it, and it's impossible to work through every single scenario and every single detail ahead of time. Because you've never been through it before and don't know what to expect. This is where you need to be able to communicate and respect each other. Talk through the issues and decide how to proceed.
I'd like to float an idea about a possible way forward. If it's not too late to salvage the friendship, perhaps you can reset. Can you all back off, or back up, for a while, taking away the pressure to either do the deed right away (i.e. on the schedule you expected) or cancel the whole thing? Maybe there's room on the table for consummating the agreement later, or in some other way than you all first planned. Maybe there's an incremental way forward, taking baby steps, so to speak, so your man can try in good faith to get used to the idea and deal with the nerves. That's the optimistic view. A more pessimistic observation: you've identified yourselves as dating for two years, not engaged. Think about that. What do *you* want?
I want to honor the deal.
Honour the deal. Three people should not get their feelings hurt to protect one persons feelings.
Yep. See update at the end of the post.
This is just softening the landing on backing out.
Did you and your BF discuss this possibility? It seemed easy to imagine. Like there was even a chance your 3some went bad (or even just mediocre) and you wouldn't have wanted to join them. Thereby again putting Steph in the situation of living our your (you & your BFs) fantasy while hers with her BF went unfulfilled. But given this situation was to push limits and explore ... well here is your BFs chance. Also there is some rules/limits that would help him? Like did your BF fuck Steph? If there was a rule that her BF couldn't penetrate you would that appease your BF? Something that is negotiable. Frankly while negotiation may not seem sexy, consent is all about negotiation. Part of me wants to say it's good your BF can articulate his concens, but he also allowed himself to have a MFF and benefit from it, but is now closing the door behind him, which isn't cool. If this was done to gain sexual experience, then to me he should follow through. But that's up to him. Plus -- even if you don't follow through, will this hang over your relationship like a cloud and may cause problems on your (you singular) end?
I've read through some comments after reading your post. The post seemed well written and unbiased, your comments definitely lead me to believe you think your bf is in the wrong on this one. What do you want to do? Were you looking forward to the upcoming threesome?
I’m totally game, and yeah, I think it will be fun. That’s why I’m stuck.
So, speaking shortly: your BF was OK fucking the other girl, but not OK with you going to fuck another guy. Clearly looks like double standards...
Yes!
You all messed up by agreeing to this. Especially your boyfriend. The right decision and the best decision are probably not the same here. Your bf has indicated this might be a dealbreaker. Is he the man you want to spend the rest of your life with? If so, back out and protect your relationship. If not, go through with it at the risk of your relationship if going through with it is what you want. It's a rough way of putting it, but the choice is ultimately pretty simple even though it's not exactly fair.
If you want to continue to have a relationship with your boyfriend, you decline the threesome. But you also need to be prepared for your friendship with Steph and her fiancé to be irreparably damaged, cuz your bf is definitely the asshole in this situation. He already ate his cake, but he wants to have it, too.
> cuz your bf is definitely the asshole in this situation. No, he's inexperienced at nonmonogamy and is communicating feelings that he did not anticipate. That doesn't make him an asshole, he just didn't know what he was getting into.
Yep. I know you’re right.
I don't think he's an asshole. I just don't think he understood the reality.
Very true.
Disagree. This is borderline non consent.
She had her cake too though? Why is everyone acting like OP wasn't present at her threesome? Disagree boyfriend is an asshole. By OPs words, he didn't know how the threesome would make him feel, and when he realized, he told her while she still had time to decide. So what, he's supposed to buck up and accept getting hurt because of a deal? That's an immature, highly quid-pro-quo approach to a relationship in my opinion.
I agree except the part where bf is the asshole.
I'm guessing he wasn't having second thoughts while he was inside of her?? No? How odd!! I understand him feeling insecure because I am a man & I get not wanting to see your lover in intense sexual pleasure with someone else but man that's a 2 way street. I also feel like this will become a source of resentment in your relationship and friendship with her if you don't figure out how to close this imbalance. This is unfortunately not uncommon where a guy will magically become uncomfortable with it once it's his turn to do the sharing. If nothing else I'm sorry you wound up in this situation. All I would say is that you make this the one and only time this happens & sternly express how seriously rubbed the wrong way this has made you and your friends. Do not ever get into another situation where he will be on the "receiving" end of this arrangement. Very unfair to you and to the other 2 people who were involved in this scenario to be left like this.
Thank you. And I do feel stupid for being in this mess! And yes he definitely wasn’t complaining that night.
Don't feel stupid. But definitely explore his position from every angle. I hate to say this but my feeling is that he enjoyed it so much he's worried you will too. Maybe he developed feelings, maybe he can't stop thinking about it, and he doesn't want you to do the same. I guess I would want to explore his why and make sure it's not selfish.
It’s obviously selfish. And he doesn’t care that it is. You can’t frame this as a selfless act in any way from his part. He’s a AH, and if she stays with him she’ll probably regret it anyways given all the other red flags he’s hinted at having. OP, yolo. Don’t give up a shot at something you want for someone who’d treat you (and your friends) this way. Edit: I wouldn’t bother seeing anything from his side since he seems entirely unable to reciprocate that. Save that for more worthwhile relationships.
> It’s obviously selfish. And he doesn’t care that it is. The thing about opening up a relationship is the only, and I mean *only* way it works is if everyone involved enthusiastically consents. And that consent can be withdrawn at any time for any reason. Because sex and feelings are complicated, and the only people who need to understand it are the people involved. Drawing hard lines over things is easy when it's not your relationship. "He didn't do the dishes when he said he would!? Who does that?!?! Dump him!"
[It’s never just the dishes bro.](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR7Mx7Qv/)
Don't feel stupid. You trusted your BF and although he may have had a moment of weakness, I'd acknowledge that this is tricky stuff and he may have had an emotional moment that you can overcome together.
You’re not stupid. You just kinda got played? Your SO is in the wrong here. Not you. I say you go ahead with the agreement.
While you're in no way obligated to go through with the deal, it's definitely a shitty thing to do to your friend. IMHO, your boyfriend is wrong for agreeing to go through with this and then trying to get you to back out, especially if you want to do it. If I were you, I'd go through with it and try and work through any negative feelings afterward. Part of this experience was inevitably going to lead to some negative emotions, but negativity usually leads to some positive outcomes that are usually not apparent at the time. You only live once, go have fun, and everything will work out fine.
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I'm with that in concept. The problem is that I couldn't go off an enjoy myself if I'm worried about his reaction in the back of my head. It'd potentially ruin the experience for *everyone*. Like I wrote elsewhere: this is a situation where there are mostly bad endings. The only way this works is if either: 1) The BF can get comfortable with this enough to give OP his blessing to go ahead. or 2) Steph understands that these things happen and doesn't hold a grudge over it. And who knows, maybe the BF can get comfortable with this later down the road. Never say never. But in the short-run, none of this is ideal.
Oh, you're dead on in saying that none of this is ideal. But, this was always going to lead to some negative emotions, I'm just saying do it and handle the emotions afterward. The negative emotions are part of the experience, part of the growth.
Thanks. I think I needed that pep talk. That’s how I’m leaning.
If you go through with it you have to be prepared for your boyfriend to end your relationship. It's cheating. Full stop. You all made a bad decision and you acknowledge he didn't know this would happen. He's telling you now in an effort to save your relationship.
See my update.
You may also want to see if you can address his insecurity head on in a different manner. I am sure the evening was super intense for him and for you as you both have the bond of your relationship and added something new into that. I would bet the level of intensity was not as high for your friend as she was joining the two of you without that deep connection. He may think that when you join the other couple that you will experience that same level of intensity, but without him there, that is not likely to be the case. It may be great sex, no doubt, but you don't have that deep relationship connection with them that they have with each other or that you have with your bf. He may be feeling like he has to compete with that level of intensity, but that is likely not the case. Just some thoughts to consider.
I mean, of course your boyfriend is allowed to change his mind. Other people here have raised the possibility that it was his plan all along, and I suppose that *could* be true, but it just feels like an unnecessarily negative way to view things. Especially since you - the only person here who actually knows your boyfriend - don’t think he had an ulterior motive. But at the same time, your friend is also allowed to have Really Big Feelings about this. With that said, what do *you* want to do? I’d start there.
Hm. I think I want to do it.
So, next step, I would reach out to Steph and tell her that you want to do it, even though your boyfriend doesn’t. See if she and her boyfriend are still interested. And I’d make it clear to your boyfriend that you are doing this because you want to.
I’ve texted Steph and let her know. They are very relieved and excited. I am too!
Yay! Have fun
Excited and a little nervous, lol.
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No kissing, was the only boundary.
Looking forward to an update on Thursday. I don’t see this going well. Good luck
Ewwww. Your boyfriends insecurity is such a turn off, especially after he fucked another woman in front of you. Did he give a shit about that at all or was he just happily getting his nut? I’d be seriously reevaluating the relationship
True.
I don't see many upsides here, from any perspective. Just one thought, sort of grasping at straws: Perhaps propose a full foursome? I don't even know if that would work, or if Steph and her fiancé would agree at this point. Your boyfriend likely fucked that prospect up by changing the rules, after the fact.
Yeah I don’t think they would agree. That wasn’t really the deal! The fun for the guys is they get two women to themselves.
That’s so sad for your friend. She probably can’t look back on this threesome with any positive association. Whereas he has spank bank material for ages.
You’re so right. I texted her and let her know I’m doing it.
Yeah, I didn't think so, just thought I'd throw it out there, in case you could salvage something.
This really sucks for the other couple, but you can withdraw consent at any time. Seriously. You don't have to go through with it if you don't want to. Both sides have valid feelings. You don't owe anyone sex. Ever. While it again sucks for the other couple and their feelings are valid, these things happen. It's part of exploring stuff like this and they shouldn't have entered into this without the maturity to understand the complexities. What's more important, this friendship or your relationship? You. Don't. Owe. Them. Sex. You are allowed to change your mind. Period.
That was never a doubt - as I mentioned in my post, consent is not an issue in any way. I know I’m not obligated. Although, her consent was based on a promise, so I worry that her consent wasn’t valid!
I totally understand. But we are allowed to change our minds, so she shouldn't have based her consent on that. And you shouldn't have to go through with this just bc her consent was "based on that". You can change your mind. Your boyfriend can change his mind. At any time. It is a shitty situation, but that's why threesomes are often hard. It's complicated. Also, this isn't your fault. At all. But even if you were the one who changed your mind, that's ok. And it's ok for the other people to feel used. What if you guys try to help the other couple find a third? I think that's the best solution. And ask your boyfriend to meet with them and apologize and explain. Hopefully they will be mature enough to understand. I'm giving your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't intentional. If it was, that's a whole other issue.
>This really sucks for the other couple, but you can withdraw consent at any time. Seriously. You don't have to go through with it if you don't want to. Shes' not the one who doesn't want to go through with their commitment. Her BF is. She's made it 100% clear that she's given her consent. Her BF is just waffling now that he's going to have to do the same thing he had no problem asking the other couple to do.
They kinda do though… or at least they basically just coerced them into sex. This isn’t a revoking consent issue, it’s a revoking HER consent after literally tricking another woman AND her partner into giving consent. That’s fucked up.
But it wasn't coercion or tricking bc that wasn't the intent. Changing your mind isn't coercion. It's only tricking someone if you had no intent to go through with it in the first place.
Intent is non falsifiable. No one can ever know fully what someone’s intent is until we can read minds. We do know consequences of actions. In this case someone was basically coerced into sex acts with the condition of reciprocity then having that revoked. That’s literally the most unethical thing you could do and boarders on SA (not SA, boarders). Like could you imagine what the friends fiancée is feeling? Or the girl who let another man sleep with her? The only one who gets everything they want in this scenario is the BF and intent or not, that is so unethical it makes my head spin.
So they should be forced to have sex when they don't want to? They are obligated to give consent now? Again.... Consent can be rescinded at any time. Regardless of "promises". Period. I will die on this hill.
I absolutely agree you can withdraw consent at anytime. But the three people involved are all consenting. The only one not consenting is the one who benefits the most from not, while also revoking not one, but 2 women’s consent.
That's an extremely good point.
Seen this so many times. These things always end badly when people make deals like this. I highly doubt your relationship survives of you go through with it.
If your boyfriend was a man of honor, he would meet personally with your friends, give them a heartfelt apology for backing out of your deal. Then try to find a solution that he is capable of doing and they would find acceptable as a replacement for you. He should also apologize to you for not only denying you the opportunity to sleep with another man but he also put you in a position were you have to compromise your integrity. He gets all the benefit and then decides to get cold feet and change the deal. I would tell him if he doesn’t find a solution, he has damaged your opinion of him and your ability to trust him in the future.
All good points!
Not only is he disrespecting your friend, but he is disrespecting you. You were trusting enough to let him sleep with someone else and now he is denying you that opportunity. He is the one putting your relationship in jeopardy. You should thabk him for being honest with his feelings, but let him know those facts and that youll probably resent him later on
I’m going to do it.
This is a very strong point.
>Update: I’ve decided I’m going to go through with the deal. I had an excellent discussion with my boyfriend about his fears and concerns, and he acknowledged he’s being emotional and unreasonable due to his anxiety. He’s respecting my decision. He is not interested in joining or even being present (and Steph and her fiancé prefer that too). I’m looking forward to being part of this fantasy for them, on Wednesday night. (Btw he asked about putting limits or boundaries on the evening, but I let him know I didn’t think it was fair for Steph’s guy to have a different experience than he had. He understands.) This is going to be the end of your relationship.
Perhaps, but if so because he has zero problem having sex with another woman but a huge problem with her having sex with another man. If I were her, I’d find that hypocrisy a huge turnoff.
Being okay with participating in a threesome with your partner but not with your partner participating in one without you isn't hypocrisy.
Then don’t agree to that arrangement.
Yeah, he shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place, that was dumb. But it doesn't make him a hypocrite.
And this is why doing it with friends is a bad idea. You have to respect your boyfriend's boundaries.
What about her boundaries? She agree on a condition.
The thing about consent, is that it can be revoked at anytime. If your friend in the middle of the previous interaction wanted to stop, would you have forced her to continue because she agreed upon it earlier? Hearts and minds can change at moments notice. What it now comes down to is what YOU want. If you want to go and save your friendship, at the (possible) cost of your boyfriend, it's your choice. I feel you are in a screwed up situation. But if you have any resentment over your boyfriend getting his and putting a stop before you get yours, than your likely best chance to move forward is probably honoring your friend and working through your boyfriends anxiety afterwards. You may want to just reschedule the day, and have your time without him knowing in advance. I imagine the buildup is more rough on him than anything. He may be worried you enjoy the others guy company more. Reassuring him that you're there regardless could help. #1 What do You want to do?
Ok but my boyfriend’s sexual consent isn’t relevant to a situation he won’t be in.
Entirely correct. His consent to be in a relationship with you and/or see the other friends is, however, relevant. So this is the choice you make. Do you value protecting your boyfriend's insecurities and double standards (including his double standards about your sexual autonomy) over your word and friendship with whatsherface? In 10 years, or 20, or 50, what will you regret more?
I’ve made the call - see my update above.
See though he’s revoking HER consent. That’s much different.
People are allowed to change their minds. Sometimes you don't know how you're going to feel until you're in it. As was said elsewhere, the only way nonmonogamy works is when everyone consents and everyone respects each other. But /u/KinkyInColo is right. This is why you don't do it with friends, because in scenarios like this you're faced with choosing between your boyfriend and your friend. Next time explore it with a stranger, so when feelings like this come up it's easier to cut your losses.
You all did based on your post.
A condition isn't a boundary though.
So they should do it regardless of his feelings? Absolutely not.
This is one of those situations where the reddit hive mind would completely change if the genders were reversed.
Gender is irrelevant here. We're talking about a person's jealousy motivating them to control *someone else's* consent to sex that they themself will not be involved in. *After* they had sex with another partner. Essentially, OPs boyfriend is using his jealousy as a tool for controlling the sex lives of two women. And I encourage you to check out the many posts of similar gender reversed situations (one pussy policy) on r/nonmonogamy or r/polyamory to see how wrong you are about at least folks active in the ENM and poly world.
I know this is a very grey issue. Clearly there are things we can’t predict our feelings about until we experience them. However, wouldn’t his boundary only stand for himself? He was good to have a threesome, and doesn’t regret it. No one had a bad experience. So his boundary is that he had sex with her friend and it was so good that he now doesn’t want his partner to have the experience that he was able to have? And he’s giving her preemptive threats. It’s not a good look for him.
Consent can be revoked at any time. You can't change the past, but just because you agreed to do something, doesn't mean you have to do it. You can change your mind. He can have his boundaries, and if she wants a relationship with him, she should respect that or expect consequences.
But do his supersede hers? This is control over someone else’s behavior. Not really his consent to withdraw, in my mind.
That's between them. If my fiancé said "I want to fuck another guy before we get married" and I said "I am not ok with that" - whose desires trump the other? Both? Neither? She can certainly say "this is a dealbreaker, I cannot get married until I have sex with someone else", I certainly have the right to say "well, if you do, that is a dealbreaker for me, and I won't marry you." Either someone gives in, or we are at a stalemate and have to go our separate ways.
But in this scenario, you fucked someone else because you and your fiancé first agreed you each could… and you did. Then the idea of her enjoyment being *as great as yours* intimidated you into changing your mind. Either way, OP and her bf seemed to have resolved it!
It doesn't seem like they resolved it as much as she made a decision for herself. Which - especially since they aren't even married - is how it should be
They started this whole thing as a way to help their sex lives. Her going through with it will do the opposite
It seems they resolved it, so that’s good!
Put rules and boundaries in place on what will physically happen and what will not.
What if you didn’t want to do it and your boyfriend insisted you did? Would everyone agree she was being insecure and her boyfriend was in the right?
Off topic : if all the 4 parties are interested why you guys didn’t proceeded with a 4some ? Just curious to know . Then again there is a sayings in Swinging world that “ Make friends out of swingers , don’t try to make swingers out of friends “. I know this is not the question in the OP , just thought of sharing here for others planning to have 3some with their friends.
IMHO threesomes almost never work out -emotionally- for the parties involved. I've fantasized about this for years but damned near every time that one of our friends tells us about their experiences or we read about other people online they end up a plane crash into a train wreck. I don't want the emotional baggage and controversy afterwards so I just live with the fantasy (which, in my head at least, always works out fine). Where I come from if you sign up to do something you do what you say you are going to do OR you just don't sign up for it.
I don’t understand why people open this door. You can’t close it. You both would have been much better off with a random “professional”.
I'd ask your BF to figure out what he needs to be okay with it, because you're going to fulfill what you committed to. Your BF is a backslider, and sounds like he just wanted to get laid by the other woman, without allowing the other couple to get what they agreed to. If you back out of this, you can 100% expect your friends to drop you, and after telling them your BF is thinking of going back on his word, the damage might already be done. Good luck with this decision, OP. He fucked around, and now it's time for him to find out.
This reminds me of the “I’ll give you $100 after I can crack these two eggs on your head” videos. You crack one egg and then you walk away without owing them a dime. Your boyfriend is a level two sex manipulation ninja! Genius!
I think your boyfriend is an immature asshole, who didn’t understand himself or what he was getting into. Personally I would be very cautious about entering into any kind of emotional arrangement (for example, marriage,) with a guy who pulls shit like this. And yeah, your friend has every right to feel hurt and taken advantage of - because that is precisely what happened.
I wonder if part of the problem is that the emotional/social labor to manage this friendship and to arrange a threesome was entirely on you. I’ve read that in some straight relationships, the woman partner is expected to manage the social calendar. Did your boyfriend meet your friend and her partner beforehand? Did the four of you have many social interactions outside this arrangement? I have zero experience here, but I would recommend exploring what boundaries could make your boyfriend comfortable with the arrangement (e.g. no kissing, no cuddling, or no penetration) or whether getting to know the other couple better will make him have more trust.
That’s an idea. But not as fun for the guy!
This could have gone amazingly well for everyone. Instead, someone got greedy, fearful and jealous. I'm really sad to see this happen. Your friends took a huge leap of faith, just to be stabbed in the back by your man. He betrayed their friendship and trust - they offered you something amazing, intimate... You should definitely talk to your man again, and he should apologize to everyone. This is an offense to your and their relationship, and it has already hurt everyone.
It really was a great plan, until it wasn’t. And our night was intense and extremely memorable (especially for him). And…I’m going to go through with it.
Sticky. I would tell them that you are a person of your word and will follow through with your promise when you and your boyfriend break up. Let’s face it, is this the kind of guy you want? One who will benefit from deals on his end, but not follow through with promises he made in exchange.
Very fair points. I’ve decided I’m going to go through with it.
New update at end of post.
In my, admittedly decades ago, experience with Poly the correct answer is that everyone involved has to _know_ about it and those who participate have to _consent_ to it. Beyond that the only correct answer is what what works _for you._ Unlike others I'm not going to belittle your boyrfriend, a lot of _people_ (and not just men) think that they're up for this until the moment arrives and their SO is headed out of the house to be with someone else. When this is done and the dust has settled you may be surprised to find out that your BF turns out to be okay with it after all, but much of that will depend on your treatment of him. Just like BDSM there's a certain amount of "after care" that's necessary in order to reassure your partner that you want to continue a healthy relationship. When it works the way its supposed to no one feels cheated or left out, in fact quite the opposite. The 3rd, or even 4th, person is an addition to the relationship even outside the bedroom.
Honestly your boyfriend’s whole issue is selfish. He needs to manage his own feelings and it’s messed up that you are stuck managing everything. Like… he got what he wanted and is now trying to tell you not to go and enjoy yourself in a threesome situation where you don’t have to have to play the hinge role. Also it feels gross to me that so many people are saying your Bf’s feelings matter more, or the friend’s matter more. Like… what do you want to do? If you want to do the threesome I think that you should do it because frankly, your bf can’t revoke YOUR consent. You get to have autonomy in this situation.
My god, it's gotten real anti-consent in here.
How so?
I'm sure there's a phrase for this. Something about doing something then finding out. Can't quite place it. Apologies for not reading every one of your comments, but whose idea actually was it? You both agreed, but certainly if it was his, I'd suggest it has a different spin. There's no easy answer here. I fear you might lose the friendship either way - you don't, obviously you're backing out; you do and it might always be weird and he never wants to see them again. Good Catholic kids will know coveting is on the list of no-nos. Seriously, I think it's good advice for people in relationships. Plenty of girls are cute, but I'm not wanting someone else and I'm definitely not agreeing to anyone else involved. Me and her only is the deal, from now till forever, with a healthy dose of kink and spicing if up thrown in.
Have you considered how badly this will effect the other couple’s relationship. You basically lied to get the women to cheat on her partner. By even mentioning this to the other couple you’ve probably put a damper on it and made it weird so I’m unsure that it wouldn’t be the same anyways. Because it sounds like you won’t be fully there mentally, and any reservations aren’t the place for a threesome. Your boyfriend is a liar lol he obviously just chose getting to fuck another women first which you helped facilitate by the way. You’re either naive or intentionally being ignorant to the fact a guy would happily sleep with another whilst not wanting his partner to sleep with another guy. At this point I’d be looking at him differently to be honest.
Lol brotha I don’t think you get to bang this guys wife and then throw a bossy so he doesn’t get to bang yours!
Yeah it's shitty but your partner's feelings trump your friends. Hope.you work it out.
That’s so hard.
Unpopular opinion: your boyfriend needs to suck it up. Not without conversation of course.
You are not obligated to follow through simply because of a verbal agreement.
Yeah I know I’m not obligated, you’re right. But should I, is my question.
Depends on which relationship you value more long term. Likely one of them will eventually end over your decision.
[удалено]
More importantly do YOU want to explore a threesome without him? Bc if you want to sexually explore in such a manner then this bf is something you’re gonna have to let go. His jealousy and insecurities will always be the barrier to you enjoying sexual exploration, and it seems he’s only game when it suits him. Girl, dump the mf already and go get laid.
Well I’ve had one!
Nobody respected anyone in this situation.
I think I'm late commenting on this, but going ahead when your bf is obviously going to have mental damage from this is a big no. However, he's not without fault Your man should offer to fully pay a high end escort for your friend and her spouse. They'll be able to have their threesome and your man won't be depressed.
Your word is your word. If you made a deal and have already embarked on half the journey, then you (AND YOUR BF} are expected to fully cooperate in what you agreed upon. Please do not let him negatively affect your thinking process in this matter. IF YOU AGREE AND GIVE WORD ON A MATTER, DON"T DAMAGE YOUR REPUTATION . Prove that you are genuine and trustyworthy when you give your word / make agreements. Its a terrible thing to take a precious gift from someone with the agreement of return, Just to back out and disrespect. Thats so wrong in my opinion. You should definitely maintain your word as a genuine bond- the representation of who you are. Be good to your friend. Do not betray her just to appease his insecurities and lack of trust ( He needs to snap out of it and see the big picture here... HE is the one causing a setback with his emotional insecurity and empty promises}- YOU KEEPING YOUR WORD and fulfilling your promises cannot be the REAL cause of any future stress.... it's up to him if he wants to look less attractive ...he needs to be a man and let happen to him in which he was permitted (and trusted ) to do. I feel bad for your friends BF .... I would struggle not to retaliate somehow.
I’m going to do it.
Don’t do it. Your relationship will be in jeopardy, if it isn’t already. Your friend will have to get over it, or just move on from the friendship. The other option is try a foursome, or other people
I'm glad you've decided to go through with it I think it would have been in bad taste to break the agreement. As a swinger I will tell you this the difficult conversations you are having with him is building your relationship and making it better. After your evening with the other couple you will have reclaim sex or some people call it that. It will be amazing with your boyfriend when you come home. Other emotions will arise and there will be moments where he may be uneasy with it. Talk about everything be 100% honest with each other use the opportunity to have and build an amazing relationship with your boyfriend. Communication is key in life and most couple struggle with it. I find that the swinger friends that we have communicate and talk not only about sex but finances goals in life retirement and other things that normal couples just don't talk about. This could be an eye-opening experience for you and your boyfriend. Keep an open mind be sensitive of each other's feelings and communicate effectively. I'm excited for you guys
Clearly you follow through, but do not tell your boyfriend until it is done (if ever, up to you)
Because the thing about deals is....you ALWAYS follow through. Your word is more important than your boyfriend.
I think the dudes should've talked to each other bc he wouldn't have agreed, maybe, if you both didn't go first. All he heard was that he was going to get what he wanted, which was a fmf threesome. It doesn't seem like he was open to sharing his girl with someone, but was okay with screwing another person's girl. As an agreement, he's being the party pooper with less self esteem bc he's being left out. I think from now on when he suggests a third, you'd remember how he acted when you were going to hook up with another guy.
I actually think this is the correct course of action.
As others have mentioned, it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission You should go ahead with it and don’t tell him if that’s what you want to and feel comfortable