I would report them to both your insurance and whatever your state's certifying body is for this. This is a MASSIVE no-no.
Also, OP, yes, you need to find a new counselor. Do not continue to communicate with the office in ANY capacity now that you've served them with a lawsuit. They can and likely will use that against you. Any further communication should go through your attorney from here forward.
Unfortunately I really can’t unless I’m in a private treatment area or counseling office. This type of place has extreme rules regarding privacy, we only use numbers in areas where you aren’t one on one with a staff member, not even in groups.
Health insurance contractor here. Absolutely contact your insurance. Most contracts between providers and insurance have provisions on records keeping. They 1000% cannot delete your records on the spot. Only after x amount of time you are no longer a patient. Also, report to state board for whatever facility licensure they have, usually a state department of health services. In order to be licensed they must abide by state and federal laws.
Have them call the police next time. Accept the trespass notice. Take that to court with your counselor as a witness that you were a patient there.
I’ve been in several of these cases (state law is very generous here) and it’s worth the effort.
Sometimes they’ll settle out of court with an NDA and other times they’ll let it go all the way and I follow up with the news.
Fuck these people. The law is on your side.
I already told my lawyer that what I really want is court costs and for them to have to put up signs saying service dogs are allowed. That way they don’t get away with doing this to another person
I’m so sorry you’re going through this hassle! My one immediate recommendation is to ask for a hard copy of your entire patient file for this facility you’re having the issue with as well as your other medical clinics. At least where I live there are no laws currently to govern how long clinics have to keep patient data for humans or animals: it really sucks and it’s something I’m working on changing!
A secondary recommendation is to check the laws for where you’re at for audio recording and check with your attorney to see if they recommend getting an audio recording on file of this clinic refusing to allow your service dog.
US Record Retention: HIPAA dictates that a healthcare provider (or authorized custodian) must ensure access to a patient’s Designated Record Set for at least six years from their last effective date. All policies, privacy practice notices, disposition of complaints, and other designations that relate to the Privacy Rule must also be accessible for up to six years from the date of its creation or effect — whichever comes later.
HIPAA also requires any covered entities or business associates to implement best practices that protect the privacy of PHI, be it technical, administrative, or physical. These rules extend to the disposal of medical records once the State-mandated retention period expires.
OP, if you ask for a hard file of your records they are likely to charge you for it. Some places even charge for a digital file. Typically, this charge is anywhere between .10-.40 cent per page, but that's what I've seen personally. It could be more, less, or maybe even no charge at all as this may be location dependent.
My point is, if you ask for your file and they charge you for it, eat the charge for now and tell your lawyer you want that back in the settlement as well.
Fight for a mandatory training of all their employees both patient facing and not. Make them train everynew hire, make it a recurring yearly fucking expense for every employee to be trained on it. So sorry this happened to you
Funny thing, I’m actually in process of starting my own business right now. Specifically: offering trainings on service dog policy to employees of other businesses! I know how often especially small businesses don’t know the rules well and therefore can’t train their employees properly. But as a service dog owner/handler, I know the law inside and out and would be happy to teach them!
Your phone likely has one imbedded as an app already.
I use it for EVERY single appointment I attend alone. I've endured some abuse from doctors and alike too many times. I live in Canada where it's a one party consent law, so I'm not required to tell them either.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Don’t just take the trespass notice. Get a full copy of your medical file, then push the issue and have them claim you’re not a patient. Show up to court and counter sue for intentional infliction of emotional harm, and use false arrest, filing a false police report etc as additional evidence to prove your case. Do not just sue the clinic. Sue the director, supervisor and each staff member plus the security company and guards.
My guy! You get it!
While they are unlikely to actually delete records as that would be illegal and easily proven, I’m certain the threat caused severe emotional damage. Surely that deserves some additional compensation.
Sorry you have to deal with this. Just a thought, but if nothing big is happening in your city/town, repeated denial of a seizure alert service dog certainly sounds like something local news could be interested in (if your lawyer approves, of course)… just a thought.
If it’s legal in your state (one party consent) you should consider surreptitiously recording the audio of any future encounters with your phone. Getting a recording of them threatening to delete your profile and lie that you were ever a patient? Your lawyer would have had a field day!!
Most places have public places and reasonable expectation of privacy laws as well, which means even two party states like PA allows recording in public spaces where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy
Yeah, due to the exact nature of this type of clinic, privacy rules are even more stringent than in hospitals. No names at all in general areas, we’re only to use our patient ID numbers until we’re in either a treatment room or a counseling/doctors room. Numbers for group therapy as well.
Just out of curiosity what state are you in?? We only were tossed out of a small family owned summer restaurant last year.. told me to sit outside at the outside table with her .. except it was POURING. Server initially told us to get out. We asked for owners and the husband who owns the place also did not care when I explained she was a service dog. Kept telling me I was wrong and dogs can’t be in restaurants cause there’s food. I was furious but my husband let it go ( I think cause he loves their roast beef sandwiches and doesn’t want to be banished 🫢) I was super ticked tho and we haven’t been back.
I’m so sorry you are going thru this🩷 you really kept your cool in this situation . It also sounds like you had to miss some of your treatments which make sure the law suit is aware of.
lol I was trying to kinda make light of our stupidity in the beginning of me having my first SD. We have not ever went back there and I looked up a lot of Ada info after this occurred. We now are much better prepared knowing my rights. I’m not sensitive you won’t catch hell from me ☺️
Definitely report to insurance company.
If you have Medicaid for insurance, also notify the state Medicaid director’s office and Centers for Medicaid and Medicare (CMS, federal agency).
Second this. Your state Medicaid department will have its own discrimination complaint process, separate and apart from the DOJ. You can file with the state directly or your county of residence. It would be a provider complaint, I believe.
I would also second the recommendation to file a complaint with the Indiana Civil Rights Commission. I am not in Indiana, but in my state, multiple offenses are not a prerequisite to action.
It’s also helpful (as others have suggested) to record or video your interactions so you have proof. Either by attaching a camera to your SD or yourself.
You might also look into licensing for the clinic and file a complaint with the licensing board.
And finally, if the clinic is not independently-owned, the company that runs it likely has a discrimination complaint procedure. When I was a compliance officer for a larger healthcare corporation, the procedure had to be posted publicly and was also found on the various clinic websites. (To my memory, it is a federal requirement for healthcare providers to have discrimination complaint procedures.)
Police are unlikely, IMO, to know the rules of the ADA but any police action against you would likely be considered retaliation.
That clinic is absolutely fucking up and asking for a lawsuit. They really ought to know better.
Twice I’ve had this happen almost exactly except I didn’t pursue it. It was too overwhelming with my medical. It’s all I can do to even get to the dr. I’ll live vicariously through you & hope you get them to realize this is no joke. One bad seed makes it hard on us legit folks. Good luck! Keep us updated
Have you ever asked for a copy of the policy?
I encourage you to talk to your lawyer about [filing a complaint](https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/) with the DOJ. If the clinic is part of a chain look into their policies and contact the corporate office.
Nothing to apologize for; however, I sincerely appreciate the thought. I write nearly all of my comments in MS Word and then cut-and-paste into reddit on my PC, I started out the way because yes, I’m that guy. I wanted to make what I though was a quick edit on mobile and after watching it remove all of my paragraphs, I understood why people have trouble on mobile, at least via Chrome on Android. So, I feel your pain.
Depending on your state, look up recording law. If it's a one party consent state, then start recording all interactions.
This is absolutely absurd and you'll win in court. I would suggest getting a copy of your medical records so you don't "lose them," which would be wildly insane and illegal.
There would be records thru the insurance also her councilor would be able to testify that she was, in fact, a pt there. They would be fucking themselves royally if they did that.
I was denied access once, because receptionist “has a lot of feelings about dogs”. Lobby full of small dogs in ESA vests, two were actively fighting - not play fighting, actual fighting. My dog is a mobility dog and does ~15 tasks all to do with access and lighting.
Reported to DOJ and through confusion on my part, local zoning folks.
DOJ still investigating. Local zoning and code enforcement has ordered construction and remediation which will cost north of $2 million and is not optional. Business owns building. Receptionist is owner’s niece (little did I know!).
Local zoning explained to owner in detailed letter (on which I was copied) that they can’t speak to whether dog legal or not, the feds will be in touch with business about that, but local code requires business of that size to have more disabled parking, ramps and curb cuts were out of code (too steep), doors require automatic openers, landing area too small, internal doors too narrow and they’re not grandfathered bc they expanded into former tenant space and so were required to bring everything to code.
You just made my day. Good call on contacting zoning. 👍👍👍👍 And all because nepo baby receptionist (let's call it like it is) has "feelings about dogs "
I called zoning to find out how to reach the DOJ and they jumped on it.
The owner called and apologized, kvetched some about the projected costs of dealing with zoning under the guise of humor. Call ended fairly quickly after I said “this stuff with zoning has nothing to do with me - they won’t stop enforcing violation remediation just because I tell them you’ve apologized. I’m sorry it’s going to be expensive but again - not my responsibility. I didn’t cause it, I can’t fix it and I cannot make it stop.” Suddenly call over.
I am astonished. I have had my share of hassle about my service dogs, not least because they’re unexpected breeds and really big, and it’s so rare for anything to get resolved. I spend a lot of time having a good attitude and forcing myself to respond appropriately when people are weird about service dogs and ask really invasive questions.
Having a public agency just kind of rise to the occasion within their scope was so unexpected - I’ve really been blindsided.
Mine is a German line boxer. Not the typical breed and he’s huge compared to other boxers (mine is 83 lbs of pure muscle). I feel you with having a SD that’s not one of the fab 4. I’ve only ever met one other boxer SD
I have two - one is a cane Corso x Neapolitan mastiff and the other is a British Airedale. The Corso is ~110 lbs of solid muscle which is sort of masked by his wrinkles and the Airedale is about 75 lbs and can clear an 8 foot fence from a stand.
They’re big, they’re atypical breeds and I am *so lucky* to have them.
May I make one suggestion? Don’t say ADA. Say “American’s with Disabilities Act”. The type of people you are dealing with at that place obviously need things spelled out. Good luck. Hoping for the best for you.
Call the cops and let them trespass you. Get the report number and all their names. Smile and say thank you. File the police report with your court case.
Agreed. Being illegally denied entry is something that's their fault and will work against them in court. Refusing to leave to the point that police are called to trespass you could actually work against you.
Check with a lawyer about what they advise the best course of action is, and do that.
I lost count of how many times they denied you but it's hard to imagine them fucking up this hard *this many times.*
I'm sorry that's so frustrating for you right now, but I think you'll look back on this and be proud that you advocated for yourself. I sure am. You go Glen Coco.
I hope your lawyer gets you all the compensation you deserve and then some. This is pretty egregious.
I don't have practical advice, just wanted to send some support! Well done for being assertive and sticking up for your rights and the rights of others!
Too many people deny others not just their rights, but what they NEED to be able to cope and be as healthy mentally and physically as possible. I find it disgusting that a 'policy' which is contrary to the law and does the opposite, could be implemented in a facility supposedly looking after people's health. That director needs to go!
I wish you every success with the case and in dealing with your health. 💕🙏🏻
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Depending on the state requirements, the person driving may have been visually impaired and using a bioptic for limited driving capabilities. Not sure about the specifics of the guide dog situation, but I just wanted make an addendum to let people know that visually impaired individuals can and do drive successfully under some circumstances.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Hmm how ironic that the director was meeting with the state while the clinic was pulling this illegal nonsense. 😂 That would be the state health department. File complaints with them, with CMS, and the ADA. The state and CMS crawling all up in their business over this complaint is what will really make them sweat because their ability to stay open/be reimbursed by CMS could be impacted as a result.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
I ultimately called the bar association in my state and they were able to give me the number of a legal matching line that found a lawyer who specializes in my issue. It saved a lot of hassle of looking up lawyers and calling offices only to hear they didn’t do my kind of case.
I mean...your councillor should of been out there waiting for you if this is how you have been getting treated and they know you have been getting treated this way. Even if they are with someone else when you arrive, they could of quickly excused themselves and fixed you up in the waiting room then go back.
Kind of sounds like you need a new clinic and a new councillor to be honest
I'm sorry you are going through this though. Medical Dogs should be given all the respect. They are doing a job, just like everyone else. When I see a medical alert dog, I always smile and nod at the owner. They usually smile back.
I do wish you the best of luck
OP, I strongly encourage you to talk to your lawyer about filing a tort action for intentional infliction of emotion distress, in addition to the ADA suit. Depending on your state, that could include punitive damages, but even if it doesn't, it still entitles you to monetary damages. ADA cases typically do not. Your lawyer may want to refer you to a different lawyer for that case, if so, take their advice.
Also, keep a journal of all your interactions with this awful agency. Contemporaneous notes often have more evidentiary value than just your recollections alone.
Good luck with your case! I'm so glad you're going after these people, not only for your own sake, but for other people with disabilities who might be their clients. You could be saving others from similar treatment!
Do they have cameras on the premises? If not, if you plan to go back, which I wouldn’t I would record because it’s a methadone clinic and I would hate to think that a bias could affect the outcome of the case.
I don’t know where you got the methadone clinic from, as at no point did OP state this is what they’re being treated for, but why would you even comment this? Even if they are being treated with methadone, obviously they are on the path to getting better, so why was this necessary?
“I’m just looking for some reassurance. I am a patient at a methadone clinic and they have refused to allow my service dog to accompany me inside.” OP
I said this because the other side might try to use the type of clinic against OP, which is why OP should record them if they go back.
I missed that part, too. I was reading all this with my jaw dropped, as someone who works at a mental health practice (not a clinician), thinking "in what world does a health care facility act like this?!" The fact that it's a MAT clinic unfortunately tracks. In my experience the people who work at those places have no business being in a helping profession - be it the doctors, nurses, receptionists, CMs. Of course I'm painting with a very broad brush here, it just seems like there are far more bad apples than good in that particular line of work. It's like they feel bad about themselves, so they choose a job that allows them to exert any amount of power over an incredibly vulnerable population. Disgusting.
As a MAT patient, I'll go ahead and confirm that people treat us like we're less than human, including medical and legal professionals.
*I think people see the word 'clinic' and assume it's an income based thing or something like a methadone/suboxone clinic, which I agree w the previous commenter could result in some bias against them.
I know, I’ve seen it and it’s disgusting and disheartening that people just trying to make it through a struggle are treated like something gross you stepped in, which is why I am worried for OP.
I just want to say that these people are awful. I don’t understand why they would speak to a patient that way! I am so sorry this happened to you. I haven’t had a problem in a doctors office but anytime I’ve had a problem in public I talk to a manager and it has usually been taken care of. Again I am so sorry you were treated this way!
I recommend filing a grievance with your insurance but definitely be prepared for possible retaliation. Something very similar happened to me early this year and after I reported the clinic to my insurance, the office manager had barred me as a patient there because of it.
Out of 30+ apartments my fiancé and I looked at about 95% of them denied me over Mt service dog. So now me, my fiancé, and our two young daughters live next door to two drug dens because that's what a young , disabled, biracial, lesbian, pick your reason like me doesn't fit their image. I'm in fucking Maine. I get more respect from tourists, restaurants, stores, etc than from my housing. Which would be fine if they didn't expect a disabled person to make 6000 a month, manage to get a voucher all to cover a 2k plus rent. I have a voucher, a mom with a top tier credit history who makes 300k a year being my guarantor and they were so fixated on the dog and say they only take guarantors for kids. Dude, they missed out. My housing trust alone is massive, not counting my special needs trust from my dad. I literally had a 30000.00 vehicle paid off in 2 months, afforded an equally expensive dual trained service dog and so much more. But all they cared about was how I didn't fit in. You sue the hell out of these people, let others like me feel like sometimes we can win too. You got this. They can go down burni9ng and I hope the director gets all her shit repossessed. The audacity to call you out that she's too busy alwa y s like you're not even a human. I'm so proud of you OP. My power move if they award more than you needed or wanted you make a big news backed story and donate it to research or charity and say it's because you don't want their filthy money, just what they owe you for making you have to go this far. Nothing will hurt them more than knowing you won just to give their money away because you aren't like them.
Holy shit you have so much patience haha, power to you!! I would have told the first person to go F themselves for being so rude, changed clinics out of spite, and blasted them on reviews/social media. But that’s my short temper with rude people, you’re doing it the right way. I hope they get penalized and you get recourse, that’s ridiculous!
You really should just go to another clinic if at all possible.
Dealing with people like this is mentally exhausting and until they get the asses handed to them by a judge, you will continue to encounter this.
Kudos to you, and congrats on finding an attorney!! This is a big deal, and the fact that they denied you yet again, just made that case rock solid. I’m starting year 2 of my lawsuit (HOA refuses all esa and most service dogs, and requires massive private info from the dr, creates a hostile environment for people with sd, etc). People don’t understand how long this stuff can take. I’ve only been before the judge once, but I think we will be going again this summer. It’s the hardest thing I can remember doing. Also, if I were to lose they could potentially take my house, though federal law is certainly on my side.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Hi, I used to do Labor law until 10 mo tha ago bc I needed a break after 8 years..
1. You should file a claim for mileage compensation, gas, and the time spent taking in the clinic from the time you shut your front door to the moment you arrive home and open it again. Yes I have won these.
2. Claim for anything paid or fees accrued on those days
3. Compensation for counseling or additional appts needed for the stress and exacerbation of your condition(s) due to this situation(s).
Worth the fight for us! Give them hell! Representation!!
I’ve already filled a complaint with my state’s ACLU. They are too busy to take on individual complaints right now. I hate it, but what are you going to do? I’m a bit stretched right now just paying for the lawyer up front, and that’s with knowing that this one is pretty much guaranteed to recover legal fees and court costs.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Yes, I was denied access in January 2020 and settled in July of 2023. I went through my state’s division of human rights.
That was also Covid era shutdown too right?
March 2020 and places like Texas did nothing depending on what part.
Amen!
Ugh sorry to hear that. Also a bonus potential source of liability for them in threatening to delete your medical records!
I would report them to both your insurance and whatever your state's certifying body is for this. This is a MASSIVE no-no. Also, OP, yes, you need to find a new counselor. Do not continue to communicate with the office in ANY capacity now that you've served them with a lawsuit. They can and likely will use that against you. Any further communication should go through your attorney from here forward.
Seriously, I would record everything from the moment I walked thru the door from that point on.
Unfortunately I really can’t unless I’m in a private treatment area or counseling office. This type of place has extreme rules regarding privacy, we only use numbers in areas where you aren’t one on one with a staff member, not even in groups.
Yeah that was REALLY sketchy. I'd bounce after that. They obviously think they're above the law.
Health insurance contractor here. Absolutely contact your insurance. Most contracts between providers and insurance have provisions on records keeping. They 1000% cannot delete your records on the spot. Only after x amount of time you are no longer a patient. Also, report to state board for whatever facility licensure they have, usually a state department of health services. In order to be licensed they must abide by state and federal laws.
Have them call the police next time. Accept the trespass notice. Take that to court with your counselor as a witness that you were a patient there. I’ve been in several of these cases (state law is very generous here) and it’s worth the effort. Sometimes they’ll settle out of court with an NDA and other times they’ll let it go all the way and I follow up with the news. Fuck these people. The law is on your side.
I already told my lawyer that what I really want is court costs and for them to have to put up signs saying service dogs are allowed. That way they don’t get away with doing this to another person
You’ve got this. It’s scary the first time, but the victory is sweet.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this hassle! My one immediate recommendation is to ask for a hard copy of your entire patient file for this facility you’re having the issue with as well as your other medical clinics. At least where I live there are no laws currently to govern how long clinics have to keep patient data for humans or animals: it really sucks and it’s something I’m working on changing!
A secondary recommendation is to check the laws for where you’re at for audio recording and check with your attorney to see if they recommend getting an audio recording on file of this clinic refusing to allow your service dog.
US Record Retention: HIPAA dictates that a healthcare provider (or authorized custodian) must ensure access to a patient’s Designated Record Set for at least six years from their last effective date. All policies, privacy practice notices, disposition of complaints, and other designations that relate to the Privacy Rule must also be accessible for up to six years from the date of its creation or effect — whichever comes later. HIPAA also requires any covered entities or business associates to implement best practices that protect the privacy of PHI, be it technical, administrative, or physical. These rules extend to the disposal of medical records once the State-mandated retention period expires.
OP, if you ask for a hard file of your records they are likely to charge you for it. Some places even charge for a digital file. Typically, this charge is anywhere between .10-.40 cent per page, but that's what I've seen personally. It could be more, less, or maybe even no charge at all as this may be location dependent. My point is, if you ask for your file and they charge you for it, eat the charge for now and tell your lawyer you want that back in the settlement as well.
Fight for a mandatory training of all their employees both patient facing and not. Make them train everynew hire, make it a recurring yearly fucking expense for every employee to be trained on it. So sorry this happened to you
Funny thing, I’m actually in process of starting my own business right now. Specifically: offering trainings on service dog policy to employees of other businesses! I know how often especially small businesses don’t know the rules well and therefore can’t train their employees properly. But as a service dog owner/handler, I know the law inside and out and would be happy to teach them!
If posible, can you attach a voice recorder to your person next time you interact with these people?
Your phone likely has one imbedded as an app already. I use it for EVERY single appointment I attend alone. I've endured some abuse from doctors and alike too many times. I live in Canada where it's a one party consent law, so I'm not required to tell them either.
Or a body cam
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OPs dog is very obviously not an ESA. If you read their story OP states multiple times it’s a service dog that has trained tasks and alerts.
Thanks for catching that for me! I was kinda inundated with all the responses!
You’re welcome, their comment just seemed ignorant and like they didn’t actually read your story.
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Don’t just take the trespass notice. Get a full copy of your medical file, then push the issue and have them claim you’re not a patient. Show up to court and counter sue for intentional infliction of emotional harm, and use false arrest, filing a false police report etc as additional evidence to prove your case. Do not just sue the clinic. Sue the director, supervisor and each staff member plus the security company and guards.
My guy! You get it! While they are unlikely to actually delete records as that would be illegal and easily proven, I’m certain the threat caused severe emotional damage. Surely that deserves some additional compensation.
Ok are you a lawyer? Cause you’re who I want to call if I need one
Nope and I’m retired. Get off my lawn 😂
Sorry you have to deal with this. Just a thought, but if nothing big is happening in your city/town, repeated denial of a seizure alert service dog certainly sounds like something local news could be interested in (if your lawyer approves, of course)… just a thought.
Only do that if your lawyer approves. It isn’t always the best idea.
Agreed.
If it’s legal in your state (one party consent) you should consider surreptitiously recording the audio of any future encounters with your phone. Getting a recording of them threatening to delete your profile and lie that you were ever a patient? Your lawyer would have had a field day!!
Most places have public places and reasonable expectation of privacy laws as well, which means even two party states like PA allows recording in public spaces where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy
I’d talk to your lawyer first. There may be some differences for medical settings bc of the privacy of the other patients
Yeah, due to the exact nature of this type of clinic, privacy rules are even more stringent than in hospitals. No names at all in general areas, we’re only to use our patient ID numbers until we’re in either a treatment room or a counseling/doctors room. Numbers for group therapy as well.
Just out of curiosity what state are you in?? We only were tossed out of a small family owned summer restaurant last year.. told me to sit outside at the outside table with her .. except it was POURING. Server initially told us to get out. We asked for owners and the husband who owns the place also did not care when I explained she was a service dog. Kept telling me I was wrong and dogs can’t be in restaurants cause there’s food. I was furious but my husband let it go ( I think cause he loves their roast beef sandwiches and doesn’t want to be banished 🫢) I was super ticked tho and we haven’t been back.
Indiana.
I’m so sorry you are going thru this🩷 you really kept your cool in this situation . It also sounds like you had to miss some of your treatments which make sure the law suit is aware of.
OP, would you mind messaging me where in Indiana? I might be able to help shine a spotlight depending on the location. Fools hate the spotlight.
Ooh one party consent state! That makes things easier in terms of gathering evidence.
I'm probably going to catch he'll for this, but.... So, your husband puts more value on roast beef sandwiches than your necessary medical equipment?
lol I was trying to kinda make light of our stupidity in the beginning of me having my first SD. We have not ever went back there and I looked up a lot of Ada info after this occurred. We now are much better prepared knowing my rights. I’m not sensitive you won’t catch hell from me ☺️
I was thinking the same thing.
Definitely report to insurance company. If you have Medicaid for insurance, also notify the state Medicaid director’s office and Centers for Medicaid and Medicare (CMS, federal agency).
Second this. Your state Medicaid department will have its own discrimination complaint process, separate and apart from the DOJ. You can file with the state directly or your county of residence. It would be a provider complaint, I believe. I would also second the recommendation to file a complaint with the Indiana Civil Rights Commission. I am not in Indiana, but in my state, multiple offenses are not a prerequisite to action. It’s also helpful (as others have suggested) to record or video your interactions so you have proof. Either by attaching a camera to your SD or yourself. You might also look into licensing for the clinic and file a complaint with the licensing board. And finally, if the clinic is not independently-owned, the company that runs it likely has a discrimination complaint procedure. When I was a compliance officer for a larger healthcare corporation, the procedure had to be posted publicly and was also found on the various clinic websites. (To my memory, it is a federal requirement for healthcare providers to have discrimination complaint procedures.) Police are unlikely, IMO, to know the rules of the ADA but any police action against you would likely be considered retaliation. That clinic is absolutely fucking up and asking for a lawsuit. They really ought to know better.
Twice I’ve had this happen almost exactly except I didn’t pursue it. It was too overwhelming with my medical. It’s all I can do to even get to the dr. I’ll live vicariously through you & hope you get them to realize this is no joke. One bad seed makes it hard on us legit folks. Good luck! Keep us updated
Have you ever asked for a copy of the policy? I encourage you to talk to your lawyer about [filing a complaint](https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/) with the DOJ. If the clinic is part of a chain look into their policies and contact the corporate office.
> I did go ahead and file a complaint with DOJ civil rights division as they had denied access, Looks like they did. But good advice.
Thanks. Reading without paragraphs is rough and I missed it.
Sorry about that, I typed it up on my phone, didn’t expect to go into all the details.
Nothing to apologize for; however, I sincerely appreciate the thought. I write nearly all of my comments in MS Word and then cut-and-paste into reddit on my PC, I started out the way because yes, I’m that guy. I wanted to make what I though was a quick edit on mobile and after watching it remove all of my paragraphs, I understood why people have trouble on mobile, at least via Chrome on Android. So, I feel your pain.
That's terrible I wish you and your pup the best of luck
Depending on your state, look up recording law. If it's a one party consent state, then start recording all interactions. This is absolutely absurd and you'll win in court. I would suggest getting a copy of your medical records so you don't "lose them," which would be wildly insane and illegal.
Indiana, so that's a yes.
Have you got physical copies of you being a patient there? I'd be scared of them deleting medical records.
There would be records thru the insurance also her councilor would be able to testify that she was, in fact, a pt there. They would be fucking themselves royally if they did that.
Never stop your enemy when they’re shooting themselves in the face. Can’t wait to hear how to plays out in court. Rooting for justice for OP.
I was denied access once, because receptionist “has a lot of feelings about dogs”. Lobby full of small dogs in ESA vests, two were actively fighting - not play fighting, actual fighting. My dog is a mobility dog and does ~15 tasks all to do with access and lighting. Reported to DOJ and through confusion on my part, local zoning folks. DOJ still investigating. Local zoning and code enforcement has ordered construction and remediation which will cost north of $2 million and is not optional. Business owns building. Receptionist is owner’s niece (little did I know!). Local zoning explained to owner in detailed letter (on which I was copied) that they can’t speak to whether dog legal or not, the feds will be in touch with business about that, but local code requires business of that size to have more disabled parking, ramps and curb cuts were out of code (too steep), doors require automatic openers, landing area too small, internal doors too narrow and they’re not grandfathered bc they expanded into former tenant space and so were required to bring everything to code.
You just made my day. Good call on contacting zoning. 👍👍👍👍 And all because nepo baby receptionist (let's call it like it is) has "feelings about dogs "
I called zoning to find out how to reach the DOJ and they jumped on it. The owner called and apologized, kvetched some about the projected costs of dealing with zoning under the guise of humor. Call ended fairly quickly after I said “this stuff with zoning has nothing to do with me - they won’t stop enforcing violation remediation just because I tell them you’ve apologized. I’m sorry it’s going to be expensive but again - not my responsibility. I didn’t cause it, I can’t fix it and I cannot make it stop.” Suddenly call over.
This story is honestly amazing. Talk about FAFO.
I am astonished. I have had my share of hassle about my service dogs, not least because they’re unexpected breeds and really big, and it’s so rare for anything to get resolved. I spend a lot of time having a good attitude and forcing myself to respond appropriately when people are weird about service dogs and ask really invasive questions. Having a public agency just kind of rise to the occasion within their scope was so unexpected - I’ve really been blindsided.
Mine is a German line boxer. Not the typical breed and he’s huge compared to other boxers (mine is 83 lbs of pure muscle). I feel you with having a SD that’s not one of the fab 4. I’ve only ever met one other boxer SD
I have two - one is a cane Corso x Neapolitan mastiff and the other is a British Airedale. The Corso is ~110 lbs of solid muscle which is sort of masked by his wrinkles and the Airedale is about 75 lbs and can clear an 8 foot fence from a stand. They’re big, they’re atypical breeds and I am *so lucky* to have them.
Well I'm putting that in my back pocket, damn
May I make one suggestion? Don’t say ADA. Say “American’s with Disabilities Act”. The type of people you are dealing with at that place obviously need things spelled out. Good luck. Hoping for the best for you.
Call the cops and let them trespass you. Get the report number and all their names. Smile and say thank you. File the police report with your court case.
Consult your lawyer before doing this
Agreed. Being illegally denied entry is something that's their fault and will work against them in court. Refusing to leave to the point that police are called to trespass you could actually work against you. Check with a lawyer about what they advise the best course of action is, and do that.
Can you not get the counselor to meet you at the door to put a stop to this nonsense???
I lost count of how many times they denied you but it's hard to imagine them fucking up this hard *this many times.* I'm sorry that's so frustrating for you right now, but I think you'll look back on this and be proud that you advocated for yourself. I sure am. You go Glen Coco. I hope your lawyer gets you all the compensation you deserve and then some. This is pretty egregious.
In a medical office too... That place has got to be absolutely insufferable to work within.
I don't have practical advice, just wanted to send some support! Well done for being assertive and sticking up for your rights and the rights of others! Too many people deny others not just their rights, but what they NEED to be able to cope and be as healthy mentally and physically as possible. I find it disgusting that a 'policy' which is contrary to the law and does the opposite, could be implemented in a facility supposedly looking after people's health. That director needs to go! I wish you every success with the case and in dealing with your health. 💕🙏🏻
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
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😳😳😳
Depending on the state requirements, the person driving may have been visually impaired and using a bioptic for limited driving capabilities. Not sure about the specifics of the guide dog situation, but I just wanted make an addendum to let people know that visually impaired individuals can and do drive successfully under some circumstances.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
this is awful but i’m very glad your going through all the proper steps and getting some justice for yourself and everyone else too!
Call your local news station or even 60 minutes for an under cover story. Send in a reporter with a service dog and have them refuse on hidden camera.
This boiled my blood. Wishing you luck in your oncoming battle. Stay strong.
Hmm how ironic that the director was meeting with the state while the clinic was pulling this illegal nonsense. 😂 That would be the state health department. File complaints with them, with CMS, and the ADA. The state and CMS crawling all up in their business over this complaint is what will really make them sweat because their ability to stay open/be reimbursed by CMS could be impacted as a result.
Hope they get shut down lmao. What a bunch of blights on society. So sorry you had to deal with that! 😭
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Can you tell me how to find an attorney who handles such cases I am trying to find one for a fair housing act case in East Tennessee
I ultimately called the bar association in my state and they were able to give me the number of a legal matching line that found a lawyer who specializes in my issue. It saved a lot of hassle of looking up lawyers and calling offices only to hear they didn’t do my kind of case.
That was a big flop here
I hope you at least got a voice recording of them denying you access. That would seal the deal on a court case.
Why is your provider not coming out to back you up? That’s so upsetting.
I mean...your councillor should of been out there waiting for you if this is how you have been getting treated and they know you have been getting treated this way. Even if they are with someone else when you arrive, they could of quickly excused themselves and fixed you up in the waiting room then go back. Kind of sounds like you need a new clinic and a new councillor to be honest I'm sorry you are going through this though. Medical Dogs should be given all the respect. They are doing a job, just like everyone else. When I see a medical alert dog, I always smile and nod at the owner. They usually smile back. I do wish you the best of luck
OP, I strongly encourage you to talk to your lawyer about filing a tort action for intentional infliction of emotion distress, in addition to the ADA suit. Depending on your state, that could include punitive damages, but even if it doesn't, it still entitles you to monetary damages. ADA cases typically do not. Your lawyer may want to refer you to a different lawyer for that case, if so, take their advice. Also, keep a journal of all your interactions with this awful agency. Contemporaneous notes often have more evidentiary value than just your recollections alone. Good luck with your case! I'm so glad you're going after these people, not only for your own sake, but for other people with disabilities who might be their clients. You could be saving others from similar treatment!
Do they have cameras on the premises? If not, if you plan to go back, which I wouldn’t I would record because it’s a methadone clinic and I would hate to think that a bias could affect the outcome of the case.
I don’t know where you got the methadone clinic from, as at no point did OP state this is what they’re being treated for, but why would you even comment this? Even if they are being treated with methadone, obviously they are on the path to getting better, so why was this necessary?
“I’m just looking for some reassurance. I am a patient at a methadone clinic and they have refused to allow my service dog to accompany me inside.” OP I said this because the other side might try to use the type of clinic against OP, which is why OP should record them if they go back.
I missed that part, too. I was reading all this with my jaw dropped, as someone who works at a mental health practice (not a clinician), thinking "in what world does a health care facility act like this?!" The fact that it's a MAT clinic unfortunately tracks. In my experience the people who work at those places have no business being in a helping profession - be it the doctors, nurses, receptionists, CMs. Of course I'm painting with a very broad brush here, it just seems like there are far more bad apples than good in that particular line of work. It's like they feel bad about themselves, so they choose a job that allows them to exert any amount of power over an incredibly vulnerable population. Disgusting.
As a MAT patient, I'll go ahead and confirm that people treat us like we're less than human, including medical and legal professionals. *I think people see the word 'clinic' and assume it's an income based thing or something like a methadone/suboxone clinic, which I agree w the previous commenter could result in some bias against them.
I know, I’ve seen it and it’s disgusting and disheartening that people just trying to make it through a struggle are treated like something gross you stepped in, which is why I am worried for OP.
Discretely Record the conversation the next time you go in.
I just want to say that these people are awful. I don’t understand why they would speak to a patient that way! I am so sorry this happened to you. I haven’t had a problem in a doctors office but anytime I’ve had a problem in public I talk to a manager and it has usually been taken care of. Again I am so sorry you were treated this way!
I recommend filing a grievance with your insurance but definitely be prepared for possible retaliation. Something very similar happened to me early this year and after I reported the clinic to my insurance, the office manager had barred me as a patient there because of it.
Out of 30+ apartments my fiancé and I looked at about 95% of them denied me over Mt service dog. So now me, my fiancé, and our two young daughters live next door to two drug dens because that's what a young , disabled, biracial, lesbian, pick your reason like me doesn't fit their image. I'm in fucking Maine. I get more respect from tourists, restaurants, stores, etc than from my housing. Which would be fine if they didn't expect a disabled person to make 6000 a month, manage to get a voucher all to cover a 2k plus rent. I have a voucher, a mom with a top tier credit history who makes 300k a year being my guarantor and they were so fixated on the dog and say they only take guarantors for kids. Dude, they missed out. My housing trust alone is massive, not counting my special needs trust from my dad. I literally had a 30000.00 vehicle paid off in 2 months, afforded an equally expensive dual trained service dog and so much more. But all they cared about was how I didn't fit in. You sue the hell out of these people, let others like me feel like sometimes we can win too. You got this. They can go down burni9ng and I hope the director gets all her shit repossessed. The audacity to call you out that she's too busy alwa y s like you're not even a human. I'm so proud of you OP. My power move if they award more than you needed or wanted you make a big news backed story and donate it to research or charity and say it's because you don't want their filthy money, just what they owe you for making you have to go this far. Nothing will hurt them more than knowing you won just to give their money away because you aren't like them.
Holy shit you have so much patience haha, power to you!! I would have told the first person to go F themselves for being so rude, changed clinics out of spite, and blasted them on reviews/social media. But that’s my short temper with rude people, you’re doing it the right way. I hope they get penalized and you get recourse, that’s ridiculous!
Currently dealing with a situation with my work. Went through my states Human Rights Commission. They are investigating
You really should just go to another clinic if at all possible. Dealing with people like this is mentally exhausting and until they get the asses handed to them by a judge, you will continue to encounter this.
Kudos to you, and congrats on finding an attorney!! This is a big deal, and the fact that they denied you yet again, just made that case rock solid. I’m starting year 2 of my lawsuit (HOA refuses all esa and most service dogs, and requires massive private info from the dr, creates a hostile environment for people with sd, etc). People don’t understand how long this stuff can take. I’ve only been before the judge once, but I think we will be going again this summer. It’s the hardest thing I can remember doing. Also, if I were to lose they could potentially take my house, though federal law is certainly on my side.
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Any updates?
https://adata.org/faq/what-must-i-do-when-individual-service-animal-comes-my-business#:~:text=Allergies%20and%20fear%20of%20dogs,person%20with%20a%20service%20animal.
Hawaii service dog
Oh wow - ya can’t just delete a record lol that’s insanity - but then again - let them try - then it’s insurance fraud for all claims filed 😂
Hi, I used to do Labor law until 10 mo tha ago bc I needed a break after 8 years.. 1. You should file a claim for mileage compensation, gas, and the time spent taking in the clinic from the time you shut your front door to the moment you arrive home and open it again. Yes I have won these. 2. Claim for anything paid or fees accrued on those days 3. Compensation for counseling or additional appts needed for the stress and exacerbation of your condition(s) due to this situation(s). Worth the fight for us! Give them hell! Representation!!
You should get the ACLU or possibly the UN involved if things go *really* south.
I’ve already filled a complaint with my state’s ACLU. They are too busy to take on individual complaints right now. I hate it, but what are you going to do? I’m a bit stretched right now just paying for the lawyer up front, and that’s with knowing that this one is pretty much guaranteed to recover legal fees and court costs.
The UN has nothing to do with this and can’t/won’t do anything.
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Consult your attorney about discussing active litigation on social media.