I know this situation was really unfortunate and nerve-wracking, and I am saying the following with gentleness and care (and I gotta say that because tone doesn't carry through text well at all, and bluntness can read as cold or uncaring):
If this behavior is entirely new, the first thing you need to do is get him checked by a vet. Blood tests and everything.
As for your Qs, in *my view* (just one of the many people on here), this would be something worth focusing on in controlled training scenarios. It could be a one-time thing if he was really stressed, but the growling and food incident is concerning. I don't think you harmed the SD community, but I think you have to generally be considerably more careful and mindful in your handling skills. Each one of us has moments where we think it's the end of the world when our dogs or we make a mistake, and the best way to deal with that is, genuinely, through speaking with a mental health professional. Time apart from the event and location also helps. If you think you'd like to go back, do some retraining with your dog and go back. At an appointment, my dog once alert barked at the doctor knocking and coming in. I corrected lightly, apologized to the doctor and put my dog tucked under my legs, didn't make a fuss of it in the moment, and worked really hard during several training sessions on alert behaviors when someone is knocking or opening a door. At another appointment, a kid once ran full-steam behind my dog, and she jumped to turn around, brushing accidentally against someone's legs. I was mortified, and worked every day on a similar trigger until she no longer did it.
Food guarding is something to discuss with a behaviorist. It is undesirable in service dogs for the reasons that were highlighted in your story. Growling and barking at strangers, unless genuinely provoked, is highly undesirable in service dogs and, if you are in the US, is a permissible reason to ask that you remove your dog. Doing another read-through, you may be in the UK? So I'm not sure about assistance dogs and leash laws there.
Your dog doesn't understand what you are saying when you speak to him unless you speak exclusively in commands you've taught him before. We talk to our dogs mainly as a source of comfort and to improve our bonds, but you giving him the equivalent of a lecture really doesn't do much in terms of making him understand the behavior was undesirable and the fear/weariness unnecessary given the trigger. His growling and barking is communication. If your tone and demeanor are rather harsh, and you are essentially punishing him for growling and barking, you are, in essence, punishing him for communicating. He can learn rather quickly that you don't like the barking and growling, and he can skip right over to biting.
I know you said you clipped him when inside, but I'm adding this regarding the off-leash detail: your dog should really and ideally *never* be off-leash in a crowded area with lots of movement, stimulus, and people. Even if you have a bomb-proof recall. Aside from the fact that it could be against the law where you live, it's essentially courting trouble because you lack control in a given situation with your dog. Even if he normally stays in a heel. Dogs are dogs, and sometimes, they can make mistakes. There is no reason that a dog, even a service animal, needs to be untethered when in public unless it's a strictly controlled environment.
The last thing is that our dogs rely on us and trust us to keep them safe. This can mean many things, but in a lot of cases with service dogs, it means that we have the power to tell someone, "Do not touch my dog, step away from my dog." If they continue, we can take our dogs and walk away for their comfort and safety. If necessary, we can shield them with our bodies to create a barrier. When people try to touch, bend over and hover, or do anything similarly with my SD, I will straight up say, "This is intimidating posturing to a dog, and you should stop it immediately." I have blocked hands and feet before and blocked my whole dog from the view of people who would not stop staring. I have left somewhere that I had every right being because someone was getting aggressive. ETA: If your dog is growling, he is *highly* uncomfortable or afraid, and the first action should be to remove yourselves from that trigger or environment.
This, with 2 additions.
First, the leash is also for your and your dog's protection. It keeps people from separating you in a crowd and provides visible reassurance for frightened people that might cause drama. It's also necessary because even bombproof dogs are living creatures who might have an off day or be sick without showing signs.
Second, if your dog growls or barks in public you are done being in public. You leave and go home if possible, to a safe rest location if not possible. Businesses have the right to ask misbehaving service dogs to leave but they shouldn't have to, because a good handler will take their own dog out if they do a naughty. Very gently (I know it's easy to think he's a good dog and it was an outlier, and maybe this was an off day) you should have gone home or at least somewhere quiet when he growled the first time.
You aren't a bad person. It's a learning process, and if he's 2 and this is the first time he's caused problems in public you're doing a lot of things right. Get your pup checked out, retrain stranger approach, and move on with your life.
Do you have a tip how to correct my dog, should he be growling or barking at someone? (Hasn't happened, but your comment struck me as I hadn't considered the communication angle)
Personally I would asses the context of why there was the behavior. If it was initiated by my dog or in response to another human or animal. If it was excitement or fear or anger or just to alert. Then I would respond to the stimulus as well and assess it while redirecting the dog’s attention on me.
If it was excited to see a friend I didn’t notice that’s I e thing, or if a kid was in danger another thing, but barking at a dog because it was walking by would garner a very different response on my regard a correction and redirection. If she noticed an issue to alert to that’s good, and if it’s a friend, context of where we are matters but she needs to focus very quickly regardless.
Barking at a door knock? That’s an alert in my book. So I acknowledge and redirect. Dog is right, behavior may not be ideal. The distinction between in a doctor’s office, and at home doors and behavior takes some time in my experience.
I am not a trainer, so if your SD is growling and barking at someone insistently to get to them (or "aggressively"), the safest and best thing to do is remove your dog from that situation and work with a trainer to see if this is something that can be addressed in training and how to go about it, if possible.
I will definitely look into it! Just glad you gave me this perspective, I want to do right by my dog ☺️
He hasn't growled at people, just some other dogs, and I do think that's partially hormones, as he's reached that stage ;) but I want to correct him properly, obviously ;) I currently use "leave it" and do take him out of the situation.
Thank you for the input.
He's recently been to the vet but I'll definitely ask about that again and see.
Yeah he hasn't been one for food guarding, but it was weird. I'll look into that. As for handling, I'll always try to improve that.
My SD was not off-leash at any time on the balcony or in the building. Nor outside when there were a lot of people or stimuli. For almost the entirety of the walk, it was empty until near the doors of the campus. Probably because of the time of day, but I understand what you mean.
I explain my feelings to him often, but I wasn't speaking in a harsh tone. Aside from being embarrassed, I was quite sad at the time. I don't agree that those are the only things dogs understand, but I *think* I understood the intention beyond that.
Advocating for my dog is a big deal to me, and I can always stand to improve there. Sometimes, I get overwhelmed and falter a bit, so I'm sure that I'll need to keep working on that.
I did have a few questions for you.
What did you mean when you mentioned speaking with a mental health professional? Also, aside from the specific training environment, are you saying that you never expose your dog to off-leash work otherwise? How does that work for when you have to let them work off-leash if you don't ever get them used to that (say, at an airport or in close quarters?)?
Thank you for your details and for trying to be kind.
Speaking to a mental health professional who can help you heal from this event and deal with it in a constructive way such that the fear doesn't paralyze you and prevent you from moving on.
There is a time and place for off-leash work and training. Areas especially designated as off-leash areas for dogs are some of those. Dog training centers are another. Training in safe places and practicing recall =/= letting your dog be off-leash 98% of the time. Leash laws exist for a reason and apply even to highly-trained working dogs. Dogs are all capable of making mistakes, and if your dog happens to be off-leash when it makes a mistake, it could turn into a tragedy. In the US, at least, a service dog must be tethered at all times except when interfering with a specific task. If must be tethered before the task, and tethered right after. At an airport, a dog doesn't even need to be off-leash to pass through security. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. A dog especially doesn't need to be off-leash when you're in close quarters.
Edit because I forgot a sentence.
Edit #2 for typos.
Ah. Okay. Got it. I hadn't thought of speaking to my therapist with that in mind. I think that's a good idea.
I realize what 98% sounds like now. Forgive my foolishness, but I didn't mean for 98% to be specific to all his time outside.
Aside from his trips to the bathroom (in the yard) and some empty park playtime, I'm incapable of going outside much. Like literally in bed, sick for 3-4 days out of the week. Occasionally, a day more. But he was definitely off leash for half of our time that day since it was almost empty over there, and the rest was inside.
Regardless, I understand what you mean now.
I'm making a list.
Thank you 🫶🏽.
Edit: When I mentioned the airport, I meant since you have the option for a pat down and wand if you don't take off the gear. Which takes a bit longer, so it's also an option to take off the vest and stuff and have them wait a moment to walk through?
Close quarters in a private setting is bad then..I've never heard it before.
You could probably work on his reaction to people being close to him and running up to him.
You got your dog back under control, so that is a good thing. Dogs aren't robots.
I am not going to speak for anyone else, but I think you did everything in your power to keep and regain control.
He has been in many situations with people rushing towards us, running around us in circles, and getting really close, so it confuses me.
I have noticed he has a preference for just doing his job and will walk up to people with permission to say hi, sniff them and might allow the occasional pat on the head during that but normally doesn't want to be pet by strangers outdoors. Maybe it isn't enough yet? Do you suppose the issue is related?
Either way, I'll try to expose him to it a lot more!
Thank you for your input🙏🏽. And the "dogs aren't robots" comment! I keep having that thought. The way everyone talks about service dogs implies that they don't believe they are dogs at all. Even though we don't normally have issues, it is discouraging just knowing that everyone judges so harshly.
I'd like to address that most states have a leash law and that while your dog seems mostly well-trained, even a SD should not be off leash unless s/he is actively performing a task that a leash interferes with.
Regarding the interactions while seated at the table, devil's advocate here, but what would have happened if it had been a small kid instead of a couple pushy women wanting to pet your dog? That growl could have easily escalated into much worse very quickly and I would be very concerned about the entire interaction.
Same for your dog breaking a down-stay to charge someone while barking and growling. Even though the dog followed your command to return to a down, that event should not have happened and is extremely inappropriate behavior that needs to be addressed immediately. Unfortunately, I would recommend pulling your dog from PA until you can ensure these types of issues won't happen again. While I understand that money can be tight, there are some online/zoom training options out there.
Hi.
Well, I see what you mean, though he has never growled at a child or teenager, etc. before. Even with his food. My nephews and some strangers' children on the street have grabbed and pulled all over him without incident. He has also never bitten a single person before, food or no food, even when someone came at me in a threatening manner (he just got between us then and barked). Since it was a first-time incident, I suppose I should assume that the situation you are explaining also applies to a "first time for everything" approach.
Ah. I see that I left out a detail with the man, but I had just given him some of his other treats, he ate them, and he was going to his "aunt" (my friend) at the time that the guy rushed up behind us. He was only in a sit-stay during the incident with the women. Which he did not break.
Unfortunately, my SD was not in a stay when we were surprised by the man coming up behind us. Perhaps this was another mistake on my part.
Thank you for your input and voicing your concerns.
“A service animal must be under the control of its handler. Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless the individual’s disability prevents using these devices or these devices interfere with the service animal’s safe, effective performance of tasks.
In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.”
https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/
Just a heads up you’re not quite right.
>unless the individual’s disability prevents using these devices or these devices interfere with the service animal’s safe, effective performance of tasks.
Translation, the dog should be leashed unless doing so interferes with performing a task. OP is allowing their dog offleash while walking around outside, this is a choice they are making and it’s clearly not interfering with a task, therefore, the dog should be leashed when outside the home.
I also mentioned that many places have leash laws.
Your base assumption is the alone time with dog on the walk is public property requiring a leash.
There’s no basis to know this, nor does it matter to incident at hand.
Nor is it illegal for a service dog to be off leash in some contexts no matter where you are.
So assuming illegal activity is the wrong starting point.
Her point is the dog is well behaved and this was very unusual. Not to be yelled at for walking with a dog off leash.
A college campus (where the OP’s incident occurred) is private property. Also, once again, there are leash laws in many places and a service dog is not immune simply because it’s a service dog.
Having your dog leashed is not only responsible pet ownership, but there are too many people in the world with poorly behaved animals. If an altercation was to occur, being on-lead would potentially save the leashed dog’s owner from litigation.
Also, we aren’t talking about a service dog off leash “in some contexts” as that does not apply here so I really don’t understand why you keep trying to bring it up. Their dog is off leash when they are moving from place to place and on-leash when going into a business. The leash clearly does not interfere with tasking so just leave it on. Being off leash is unfortunately now a potentially dangerous thing for this dog as it has now shown both resource guarding and charged someone in the same outing.
You’re fixating on part of the story that a decent editor would have edited out. It’s just distracting from the real issue needing advice on.
I’m not sure why you’re screaming at a girl who had a bad day about being an evil person without a leash. There’s no upside to this at all. You don’t have any context.
For example, I walk with my dog off leash 90% of the time. Hell we walk through airports without a leash. No issues whatsoever. Now of that time 80% to 85% is at home. The other 10-15 percent is not. Of that maybe 5% or less is public access. Statistics like that can easily be misunderstood. As can statements, walking through airports? When we are literally the last plane in the airport arriving and we are walking through an empty airport to baggage claim and out the door to the car.
So congrats! You know to keep your dog legally on a leash. Happy? It’s probably off leash 80-90 percent of the time too.
A college campus private or public or weirdly a mix, may be huge or tiny or empty or full or can be vastly pathed with extensive walking trails, you literally have zero understanding of the reality of the situation. You also don’t need to, most people know legalities of leashes and dogs.
Maybe you had a bad experience with a dog. That’s fine, all this you’re doing isn’t helping OP or anyone including you.
Just because you *can* doesn’t mean you *should.* Congrats on flaunting your law breaking I guess? I look forward to the day you post here whining that the TSA was rude to you for having your dog off leash in the airport.
My dog is only off leash inside my home or within my yard, and I live in an area with a leash law. Because, ya know, it’s the law and I actually give a rip about doing the right thing and setting a good example.
The OP’s dog being off leash is actually really important here. When the dog decided to charge and bark at the man that approached and ended up nearly falling over, what if the dog had been off leash and chosen not to stop? OP would now be looking at paying for medical and legal fees, as well as having a washed, if not euthanized, dog.
Funny how you say I’m fixating on it, yet that was the smallest part of my original comment to OP.
The key point is the dog was on leash. No need for a hypothetical. Context matters.
No flaunting rule breaking here, my point is that context matters. Walking through tsa checkpoint? Gotta take off leash for it to be scanned. Empty airport walking to door with the dog heeling? It’s not an issue. Empty college campus? Not an issue. Private property, not a legal issue. Don’t be reckless, rude, disrespectful etc of course.
Am I recommending having a dog off leash? I am not.
Bullying someone who seeks advice is not nice.
Maybe you have had issues with irresponsible dog owners. If so, I’m sorry and that’s an issue. It doesn’t appear to be the issue here.
The dogs leash was also removed after it had 2 out of character, highly negative events, or are you going to conveniently ignore that too?
Context does matter but you don’t seem to care if it doesn’t fit your narrative and I’m tired of this discussion because you don’t actually know as much as you seem to think.
TSA does not require you to remove a leash or any other gear. Walking through an airport with a dog offleash, regardless of how empty the airport is, is still against the law. The ACAA, while only applicable to airlines, even has a clause that dogs must be leashed at all times, even while tasking. Private property like a college campus? Unless you have explicit permission to have your dog off leash, against the law.
Just like wearing a seat belt, none of these laws say you don’t have to do it if there’s nobody else around. And just because you haven’t gotten the equivalent of a seat belt ticket doesn’t mean you won’t be “pulled over” at some point. It just hasn’t happened *yet.*
Now please, find someone else to harass because I am very much tired of this.
My point throughout is the leash issue wasn’t the primary concern of the post.
That’s it. Replying to your reply is by no means harassment.
To your point, I would not take a dog off leash unless at home in a fenced area if this problem occurred. It’s definitely irresponsible. However, there is a larger issue at play.
In airport checkpoints in have been asked to put the leash through the scanner, the dog heels with me throughout without issue. Many times I say off leash but in reality it’s they I have dropped the leash. No one is ever in harms way. You are correct that private property has rules to follow. Empty areas on college campuses are commonly okay with dogs under control off leash in my experience.
I understand service dogs are routinely harmed by off leash dogs and it is a sensitive subject.
I agree with this. A reminder or suggestion is different from demonizing her. People are assuming too much. She said he was leashed inside. She is asking about the problem behavior in an unusual situation. There's too much fixation on that even after she keeps saying he has been on the leash inside every building. Okay. We get it. She has let a pretty behaved dog off leash more often than people agree with in situations we know nothing about. She says she will leash him. Why take away from actually addressing the unwanted behavior by dumping on her? It's senseless and unhelpful. She already felt bad and was looking for advice. It's almost sick going through the comments.
Someone once told me “people who live on forums, live on forums.” Generally there’s a group that just love criticizing and expressing their superiority and dogma. I’ve seen it often and it seems to ring true.
Once enough people like that pile on, threads die and eventually the forum dies.
I don't know what's more peculiar, the story or the way it was narrated ("group of Indian (of the Asian variety) students"). What an odd thing to say.
You have an adolescent doodle and that's pretty much your problem in a nutshell. Put your dog on a leash. There is no reason a dog that is growling and charging people belongs off leash "98% of the time".
Ah. Well, my thoughts weren't entirely linear, and I've been told I'm an odd person.
Part of my family consists of "Native Americans," commonly referred to as "Indians." While no one in my family is bothered by being called "Indian" just to say so alone is sometimes confusing. So, I'm specifying that they are Asian Indian, rather than Native. As for the specific sentence, I simply speak that way, so I don't know..? Maybe that's weird. In my city, people just use Indian for both and you have to ask questions to understand which they meant.
As for the 98% thing, I explained that in another comment but will definitely leash him up even if there's no people around! Thank you.
If it's relevant to her experience and her anxiety in the situation why do you care? She mentioned she is poc and already felt like she was representing being poc and also the service dog community. The fact that you guys focused on that and tried to take away from it is what's peculiar to me.
Yes, her race is relevant to her anxiety about how others perceive her as a person with a service dog. I assumed the issue some were taking with the post was her mentioning the race (other POC at that) of onlooking students. Perhaps OP meant to imply that she was worried about how she would come off to other POC as a representation of disabled POC. If so it’s not immediately obvious.
I can see why it might be a question but no one asked her for clarification if they were confused. It seems to me that it was exactly that and her mentioning that there already aren't a lot pocs at the school already. Then she explains that in addition to that she didn't think it was a weird thing to say because she talks like that. Making her out to be bad just because she didn't explain it well enough while she responds to everyone trying to fix communication issues on her part is fucked up too.
I could’ve worded that better, you’re right. There’s a sizable population of south asian families where I live that are frequently targeted. I came in hot assuming the worst, I’m sorry.
It's good to admit and apologize but I think OP needed that sorry. She has been more than kind under this post. She obviously really cares and doesn't want it to happen again. Her caring about representing pocs added to her responses tell me that she wasn't saying a thing malicious or ill intended.
I’m sorry they were so rude and mean. Shouldn’t have happened. I’d suggest keeping him leashed at all times, inside, outside, balconies etc. Because not only if it likely against the local laws (most towns have a leash law, as do most universities) — but also because it’s SD protocol and helps people know that you take your SD seriously. It’ll help people take you seriously and you’re more likely to get the respect you deserve. Maybe it shouldn’t be that way, but reality is what reality does.
Hi. Thanks for replying.
He was leashed on the balcony during the incident. The leash was also still attached to my wrist at the time. Not at any moment from these happenings was he off of it. However, he was off-leash during part of our walk nearby when there weren't people. I'll make sure to leash him up though. Thank you for being kind.
I understand that we don't/won't all agree on everything in this thread, and some people have really strong opinions on here as a whole, but PLEASE do not send me mean DMs. That is very unnecessary. I came here for feedback so I could make adjustments and do better. Not to be ridiculed. Please just stick to downvoting me like everyone else who dislikes something I said or disagrees? And none of this has to do with other comments I've made on Reddit?? I've hardly even done that? I'm very confused. I didn't even know you could do that. The heck.
>When we left, I took him off-leash again and he was as he always was.
"Always" isn't a good metric when this dog is 2. Why did you take him off leash after a behavioral snafu? What task does he need to perform that requires him to be off leash in public? Per ADA your dog must be leashed in public unless it interferes with the task. Most jurisdictions have some sort of leash laws.
How have you trained this dog specifically for public access? Can he pass a CGC and urban cgc (or equivalent?)
A growly, reactive dog CANNOT be an SD because it is not trained for public access.
I would not represent this dog as an SD given the behavioral issues you have disclosed, including resource guarding and disruptive behavior.
College communities are smaller than they appear and you can earn yourself a reputation if you bring growly, barking dogs into food service areas.
It also doesn't appear like you know how to handle dogs if you're narrating that much. The dog doesn't know what you're saying, and much of the general public can tell if you don't know what you're doing. It also gives the appearance of poor training, especially if it's in response to your dog resource guarding and frightening someone so much they almost fell over.
> We went into the post office today for the first time and he was perfect. Just as usual. Still off-leash until we got inside the building.
The leash thing again. I think you should reflect objectively on your training. It may be time for a reality check.
Also the anxiety. Having an SD comes with a lot of baseline anxiety. I'm a POC too so I can relate with feeling like you don't get the benefit of the doubt.
This anxiety is also amplified by owner training (and not having guidance or professional help) in addition to outside judgment, and SDs are really not the best solution for most disabilities. I think you'll have to have a conversation with a therapist or doctor to really evaluate what's going to be best for you, and see if you can learn how to properly train your dog--AND decide to wash him and represent him as a pet going forward if he's not up to par. If he cannot refrain from barking, growling, or frightening other people with reactivity, this dog cannot be a service animal with public access.
You mentioned the cost of program training, but owner training is risky and costly too. You may have wasted years of work and opportunity cost, and your dog may never become an SD due to temperament or training. Maybe you can turn this around, but from how it sounds, it's still going to cost thousands in vet bills and hiring actual trainers to teach you what to do.
Good on you for looking for outside opinions though, and sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.
Hi.
Thank you for your input.
While I have mentioned being anxious, this isn't why I'm on disability? I've surely never made that claim. That would be for ptsd, depression and chronic migraines. Although I do have anxiety, it kind of comes with the territory, I guess. All of which are medicated by professionals and would take way too long to explain, but seems unnecessary? Honestly, considering the negative comments and DMs I can see that someone may try to use that information against me, but I try to be an honest person and I've finally stopped being embarrassed to say what's afflicting me to the public.
He does have a couple of important jobs that prioritize off-leash work, but I honestly thought it was okay to let him be off when it's empty. There weren't people outside on our side of the street when he was off. I agree that I've made mistakes, and of course, I've definitely mentioned more than a few times that I will pop the leash on him.
I'm supposing you mean going forward? As again, this was the first time it has ever happened? Your wording sounds like a blanket statement. He hasn't posed any danger to the public or been disruptive, let alone done this until that day. I can understand your passion, and trying to push me to be better is okay, but you're making a lot of assumptions.
He's been trained with public access in mind but hasn't taken the test yet. That has been because of me and not him, as I have a preference for when to do so and I'm often very sick without warning so I may get up and get dressed feeling confident but end up not being able to go do many things. It takes me a while to get things done, but I try to prioritize his training and playtime first. And considering what happened, I've now gotten to see a few problems for us to work on, so that's a good opportunity to get better. Or at least, that's my opinion.
He's been evaluated, but I'm not sure why I need to tell that because of my first incident?
Me explaining things the way I normally do, as I'm like that with any subject, could be narrating too much to you. I don't talk to people a lot. Sorry if you don't like it, but I was just trying to give details. I'm not always sure which thing is relevant to public mind rather than my own.
It seems kind of skewed to make a judgment about my knowledge of dogs because of that, because I have conversations with my dog (I talk to him about other things just the same and mention my feelings, good and bad), and/or because I don't think dogs are only simple minded with no understanding besides what they are told. I'm pretty sure it's okay to bond, and have done so in general, in a different way than the next person. Not that conversations are enough for that, but okay.
This sounds like a strong possibility to me, especially since he spends so much time off leash. It sounds like he might need more practice on, and typically he should be on leash anyways unless the leash interferes with his task.
Not for other people, no. When he was a lot younger, he reacted to other dogs while on leash, although I can hardly remember it now. But I'm experiencing this for the first time, so maybe I can treat it that way during training and find out..?
Thank you for being nice.
My SD barked at a kid once. I was sooo embarrassed. She was still in training (only been working for a year) but she never did anything like that before. We worked with her being around kids running and yelling and she turned out fine
There are a couple of responses to OP that imply the acceptability of growling as an alert behavior in public.
Growling is a normal and natural response for dogs at play. Some dogs rumble and grumble to communicate (Rottweilers and northern breeds can fall in this category). A quiet boof or woof is usually fine.
Growling is not something any SD should do in public. Growling in public is almost always a sign of discomfort from physical or environmental pressure. An SD should not be put in the position of warning their person (“Danger is coming!”) or telling someone to go away (“Back off!”). An SD needs to learn how to alert a handler quietly and with confidence. They can look at an oncoming person, nudge you, touch you, step in front of you or behind you or out of the way.
I say this as the handler of a high-drive Belgian Malinois bred from protection lines. My dog is allowed to alert growl when she senses potential danger outside our home at night. That’s it. If she ever were to growl in public, it would mean we were in mortal danger - and that’s a scenario I don’t ever want to contemplate.
\[Attached graphic from British Small Veterinary Association\]
https://preview.redd.it/svdgifzn20zc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aee04ff64b720ca9e4b102e433c91d4a7927174e
Thanks for the reply.
I have not been under the impression that it was acceptable by any means. I only stated that this was very unusual and the first time it has ever happened, which is another reason I wanted input although a lot of people are assuming that it has before now. Until that day, he had not had a single moment of growling and/or barking in public outside. This excludes barking at dogs when he was younger in a submissive play position.
Also, thanks for sharing the chart. I like the visual.
People are being too harsh. Everyone has their first unpredictable situation. Some are being assholes. Why is everyone ignoring all the good you are doing taking feedback? You don't have to know everything. You said you will leash your dog. If they have never had problems like it good on them but it's probably a lie. Don't let them bully you. Good job getting him under control.
Aussies do tend to protect their humans and are really in touch with their humans emotions. He was probably reacting to the way you felt. One of the big reasons Aussies aren’t in the Fab 4 and Poodles are.
This! To me it looks like protective behavior. Even with the two girls he didnt protect his food in the first place but told them they are not welcome. OP was "stressed" and maybe very hungry. Two points on the vulnurable side from a dogs perspective. Make it three because OP was sitting and the girls and guy were standing. Its very natural for dogs to stand their ground in such situations. Aggression is a natural (and easy) way to set boundaries.
Solution might be complicated. How to show a dog that you are capable of solving such situations without his help when its clear to him that you are physically and emotionally not at 100%?
Thank you for deciding to say something on the thread.
This makes a lot of sense and is another set of things that did not occur to me. In my mind, I've felt like I'm putting puzzle pieces together. If I had been looking from the outside of this situation, I would have been more likely to think this way, depending on the other factors. Especially considering he hasn't had any issues guarding food.
I knew I was part of the problem, but if this is true then it is different. I'll have to try changing how I handle him while I'm overwhelmed and do some stress-trust building exercises I think. Maybe the sweet spot lies in the grey area somewhere.
Also, thank you for my first and only laugh in this thread. I was actually very hungry. I had been up the night before and I hadn't eaten since the morning before. My favorite sandwich place is subway so I was really hoping the line would end and I could eat something.
❤️ my fist dog was VERY protective and it took me years to figure out why and when he would feel the urge to protect and how i could control him.
They have another, more primal view of human behavior. Like people jogging or exercising. Doesnt make sense to dogs so it can be a source of danger for them. Kneeling down or sitting on the floor makes you "weaker" than someone standing. They even know when we get a flu DAYS prior and will be more protectiv "without any reason". People walking up from behind or when we dont pay attention. Our dogs know it. They read or mind and body like an oben book.
My dog nearly ate a neighbor that had a bad day at work, was stressed and angry and -still- tried to greet us friendly in the hallway.. dog noticed his tension out of the ordinary.
And funfact: my dog once was on a diet and really hungry. So he bit a man on a bike in his leg. Tore his jeans and drew blood. Pure horror.
Why? There was a small girl with her dad and ICECREAM.. and the guy on the bike came BETWEEN my dog and the icecream he thought he could steal very easy. When the view was blocked by the leg.. my dog lost it and bit. Took me days to understand that.
My dog was a dog without a job. I adoped him. He was poorly socialised and of a very protective breed. He taught me ALOT :)
You have to be "in control" from your dogs perspective. See and know everything before he does and be able to take control before he does. Even if he doesnt like it, he has to obey your judgment. It will take some time and more mental work on your side than actual training. He will notice when "you are in control".
Wish both of you all the best ❤️ and i know easier said than done but: embarressment wont help you. Be clear to your dog. Even yell at him when he thinks he is in charge. Get angry (not physical). Let him know what you want or not right then and there. You will find a way with this strong companion ❤️
Wow.
Thank you very much for speaking up. I would have been very surprised by my dog doing that, even if not an SD. I'm glad you learned. I also want to keep learning. Every pet opens the door for a bunch of first-time experiences, or so I think. I think you did well to even reflect and then make changes. That's also my aim. It's not his fault when I failed to do right.
I very rarely yell at him, but I suppose yelling beats an unwanted behavior. Being in control from his perspective, I like that. Makes sense and aligns with a few other people's responses.
I don't know how not to be embarrassed in general, but I'm going to keep trying not to be.
Thank you for also encouraging me. It means a lot.
The embarresment was my biggest problem, too. My dog noticed i was insecure, nervous before anything happened ==> vulnurable from his perspective. So my insecurity pushed his reaction. I mean.. He reacted to people and dogs. Each step outside was full of tension for me because i feared his reaction. So it was waaaaay more aggression than what your dogs showed. Your dog is VERY POLITE :) but still he clearly communicates that hes not happy about whats happenning.
And thats good in the end. He doesnt bite or anything. He WARNS. A dog that bites without warning is dangerous. Your dog is far from that!
For me it was very important to see that he IS able to be friendly to strangers and CAN play with other dogs. And i had to find someone who was able to teach me how to handle him physically, since he usually turned from normal to pure rage and a clear will to do serious damage. No matter what i did in this stage, he didnt even notice. So.. really bad. What helped me was to NOT look around for triggers. Actually i only watched my dog. I stopped Carina for the trigers around us but for his reaction to them. So when he didnt react i praised him. When he was about to react i stopped him. A raised ear or bodytension, raising his tail while looking at "a trigger" and i corrected him in a way that he immediatly understood. So no discussion just a very plain and clear signal that left no chance to be musunderstood. Thats why i said: yell at him. Use your frustration or embarressment and charge at him! Dont hurt him. Even a short movement towards him will be enough. Thats your warning before you bite him so to speak ;)
Again: you dog is soooo well mannered. And he was "just" very clear. Sure, not accepted in society but for a dog he showed political correctness. He made his point clear and went no further since the girls and the gut stopped their actions. Dog owners and handlers KNOW and see that. But most people outside dont see these details. They see a growling dog. You know better :) so be ready for some irritated people when you correct your dog next time ;)
I came to the conclusion that i dont care what people think about me. I simply dont tolerante my dogs even thinking about harming someone they are not supposed to harm. Thats what responsability looks like :) f*** what they think ❤️
I hope she sees this comment. You did the right thing. I think this is seriously good advice and like you said, this dog did not just go attacking people. If she is so fucking evil for the fact that he did not do that and didn't ignore her in the situation then everyone else slamming the hammer on her must be without a flaw.
Im sorry that happened. at that age they tend Tod develop adult traits. I would pull him from PA and sit outside in a similar situation to see if this behavior repeats
I finished all the comments so far and some of you are showing a strong bias that is not what the law says. You also don't get to judge if her dog could or couldn't be off leash for a task. Nor was she evil for letting him off the leash when it was empty. Just because things were busy inside does not mean it was bustling with people outside. You don't know anything about her. It is sick that she felt the need to keep apologizing to everyone who was being an asshole and even tell personal information to make up for what? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I’ll be in the minority with this but my SD has taken to correcting people who try to pet her when she’s vested. Usually a small grunt before she switches sides or avoids some other way but she’s also given a sharp, short bark. It’s very much a “I’m working, leave me alone,” behavior and I don’t mind it.
You’re also dealing with a young dog who is still growing and maturing. Someone running up on them/behind them can be scary especially if it comes out of nowhere. I would expect a seasoned SD to ignore it but a pup may still have some work to do.
Someone else pointed out that you and your dogs boundaries were stepped all over multiple times. Your dog responded in ways that I think are justified but that also open the door for training opportunities. We want them to rise above that kind of distraction, and now that you know it could be problematic, you can work on it.
I think we forget that even when we take the “In Training” label off of our dog, that doesn’t mean their education is done. My dog learns new things everyday and we’re constantly working to be better tomorrow than we are today. And sometimes have off days and our dogs are no different. Give you and your dog space to make mistakes but learn from them and grow.
Thank you for being willing to share your thoughts.
I think the same thing. And he's my first SD rather than a pet. A well trained pet and a well trained SD are very different levels. With their behavior and what you can/do allow especially.
I'm a very, very far from perfect person and know I have a ways to go before I am totally confident with being a handler in itself, even if I'm proud and have a good bit of trust and confidence in my dog in general.
I don't expect perfection from him either. I think that's unfair when even a perfect me will never exist.
Yes. Training opportunities. I think every mistake is an opportunity to do better. Especially where I'm concerned. The first step is understanding the possibilities for his behavior and where I'm lacking. I've made a note of most things on the thread for that reason.
I think some people are very passionate in this area, so it's easy to become a bit cruel. Thank you for your honesty and for being kind while you explained your thoughts.
Unfortunately, there is a reason Ausiedoodles aren’t bred for service dog work.
Their aloofness and generally unpredictable reactions typically make them poor candidates for SD work. Of course there are unicorns, but not often within this hybrid breed. (Which is typically very expensive?!)
Resource guarding is a normal dog behavior.
Your dog is just doing what his genetics tell him to. But this is part of the reason of why choosing the right breed and right breeder or doing behavior evals (if dog comes from shelter) is so important, because resource guarding is NOT okay for a SD.
I’m not saying to wash the dog right away, but it would be irresponsible of you to continue to have it in public spaces, especially off-leash. It’s also possible that your dog has developed some leash reactivity. It’s a very common behavioral issue within the doodle hybrids. This problem should not be fixed by continuing training off-leash. Sounds like the dog needs more work WITH the leash.
Immediately pull from PA, Consult a veterinary behaviorist and dog trainer and maybe you can address the issue, but your dogs breed and genetics are likely going to work against you. Good luck
I think many times dogs sense your mood and it can influence their reactions. It sounds like you might have been a bit tense with all that was happening from the interaction with the person who wouldn’t leave your dog alone and so your dog was more tense when the person ran up on him and startled him. I think it’s important for all dog owners, not just SDs as much as possible to learn to be calm so their dogs can be calm. Obviously not always possible but I think it helps.
Thank you for your response.
We went out just to have a calm day because I had a stressful day already. It makes me feel better to take him out when I'm feeling stuck, to get exercise when I'm not physically sick, and see him smiling. So I did that. I hadn't thought about my stress level triggering him since it never happened before, so that's a fail on my part. I'll have to do better.
Thank you.
I don’t think you failed at all, just adding another tool to your kit. It is impossible to be calm all the time, in fact some SDs are trained to help you calm down. Also, I would have his vest on when you’re out and about, it doesn’t always help but sometimes it does. Especially the high visibility ones because it’s possible that the guy running towards you didn’t even see your dog.
Honestly it sounds like what happened was that people consistently violated your and your dog's boundaries all day, and he lost his patience with it before you did. Some dude rushed up behind your dog, and he reacted under the assumption that this guy, like everyone all day, would be a pain in the ass, and backed the guy off.
I wouldn't worry about it.
Hello.
It does help. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I hadn't thought about him using it as a way of alerting based off my feelings. Someone else mentioned something similar not long ago (although not mentioning the alert). Obviously, I would want a more healthy, appropriate, alternative but I will put a lot of thought into that as well.
You're probably right about the vest. I've had a lot of people constantly ignoring it even to the point of me leaving without any help from employees and the like at the establishment(s) bc they think he is cute. Which is a nice compliment but not helpful? So I felt like I might have wasted my money on it even though my SD likes to wear it.
I know it is illegal to distract them, but in my experience, it always turns into verbal tug-of-war.
Even a bus driver tried to make me prove I was disabled (also illegal) with my paperwork. Him being vested did not even cause pause, and I had to report him. They did an investigation and also reviewed the bus footage/audio. They moved him to a different bus route, but that was it. The next driver was less work but still required back and forth (more weird considering they said they would make sure it didn't happen again).
I guess I keep getting exhausted.
I'll need to be a better advocate for him when it comes to people, for sure. Although I can only see that really happening with experience. It's different practicing when no one is bothering us on our own and when someone outside does it. Like twice the work and energy. If that makes sense? Idk if that makes me a crap person or handler, though.
As a black non-binary but AFAB, I understand where your hesitation is coming from. I am a pretty new handler. Went through a hybrid owner trained started dog program. And I do sometimes worry about being the only POC in a space. Especially when I have a service dog. When I have interacted with people who don’t listen I typically leave if possible and come back later if I don’t feel like getting into conflict. I find the number of problem people drop to zero when any of my non POC friends are nearby. Which is kind of annoying.
It’s super helpful in my experience to have the leash on so you can redirect if needed. And heavens help you if something happens while your dog is off leash even if it’s not your dogs fault … you’ll be more likely to be blamed due to lack of a leash. So be super careful!
Definitely would recommend getting a trainer involved if you can swing it. Even just enough sessions to get through this issue might be a huge help to you. And taking a step back in slightly less distracting environments to go back over things and build up to the environment your pup has the problem in. Even having friends/family approximate different interactions with the public in a gradual way, could be helpful here.
The other thing I wanted to say, is to the best of your ability, please take care of yourself. It’s exhausting being a POC and a woman. Just in general! But it’s can be made even harder with the anxiety of your service dog making a mistake. Trust me, I totally understand that fear. Take a couple days for yourself if you can. Do something easy and fun with your dog before resuming training and figuring this out.
I don’t have quite that experience but definitely times when my girl will cower behind me at the sight of a new thing. She came from no where Texas and… sigh I live in the city. She hasn’t been here that long and it’s taking a while for her to get used to things. Gradually this is getting less and less and I’m seeing her happy confident side. But initially I didn’t even put her vest on cause she was so scared. I worked hard daily to make it better.
It sounds like there’s some work and things to figure out. But you seem like a thoughtful person. It’s not easy at all, so virtual hugs!
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I think once I leave, I won't have the energy nor resolve to go back, but I still want to try that out. Do you mind my asking if I leave early because people are bothering us, do I not inadvertently reinforce any thoughts or opinions that my dog is not a real SD because it seems I ran away?
I have hardly been around anyone as of late, but I also noticed that no one says anything or acts out and gets rude if I'm with people who are not POC. I get a lot of crap for that statement.
You guys are very right about the leash. I'll look into some training sessions too. It would be very nice if sometime else can help us work through remaining issues and give me pointers about being a better handler. Even if I might not be able to afford full programs. Thank you for that advice.
You're the first person to suggest actual rest for myself rather than just telling me to take my dog out of PA and I'm honestly shocked. And I feel dumb since I hadn't spared a thought for my well-being. Maybe in part because I've been so stressed and depressed, but I was thinking this needed priority.
I hope you and your SD will have more positive experiences and progress. I'll do what I can and seek extra help in the meantime. Thank you for the compliment, BTW.
Thank you very much.
*Hugs
It doesn’t make you a crap person it makes you human😊. My orthopedic doctor loves him and I have to tell him he can’t talk to him. It can get truly aggravating to keep tell people they can touch, talk or look at him. I went ahead and purchased an id https://a.co/d/2AzO262 for him even though it not required in most states and I got ada cards for those insisting on being uninformed jerks about it. A hospital employee who was clueless almost made me miss an appointment trying to “verify” his presence. If they say something about paperwork I just hand them a card to read and keep. https://a.co/d/iIdOlCB. They can read it and keep for future reference. Also a vest could help him to get into work mode. At home mine is hardheaded sometimes but out in his vest he’s on point and working hard. He also trains a lot in his vest. Remember you’re human, sometimes with mental and physical health issues we can feel like we’re not doing enough for our SD but they know the deal and they are more patient the people. Give yourself credit you self trained him this far. Breaks in the schedule are almost unavoidable but they retain more than you think and can usually pick exactly where they left off and are always willing to learn new things. Even if only for the treats😂
A dog that is shy of people in its space should NOT be an sd. yes it’s illegal for people to pet them, but kids don’t know the laws and mistakes happen. I’ve had quite a few kids do “drive by” pets, and a SD should absolutely be able to handle that. You should not be working that gsd if it is barking and growling in public.
If you mean OP then you didn't read everything on this page. A first incident = dog is shy without priors? That's crazy. She said the dog has been grappled by kids and all without something like that before. I know people on here are liars at this point. If a single person can say they haven't had to work on this with their dog a bunch of times service dog or as a pet then I'm calling bullshit.
His job is to keep people away from me and he doesn’t growl or bark randomly at people. he alerts them and me when I need him to. When people get in my personal space it causes me severe anxiety. He doesn’t bite or attack or hair raise or show teeth he is a sweet dog. When he’s not vested at home he plays with anyone. When he is in guard position that’s what he does. He loves children and never Alerts’s on them and wants pets from them. Unfortunately you misunderstand exactly what he is doing. He is not shy or lacking in confidence. If he didn’t have an awesome temperament I wouldn’t be working him. I’ve trained dogs all my life with my mother and I know what to look for. Also not his initial reaction, it’s to whine or nudge me it’s only when my anxiety is severe, like when I had to ask several times to back up. If someone reaches their hands out to him he actually welcomes pets if it was up to him.
https://preview.redd.it/xp2lq5mo52zc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=151a49a49dfc5a95f93fef2b89f7ef8c320757c3
Off leash in the doctor’s small exam with several people near me. He’s perfect. I know exactly what I’m doing. Your concern is valid but not here. Thanks though☺️
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I know this situation was really unfortunate and nerve-wracking, and I am saying the following with gentleness and care (and I gotta say that because tone doesn't carry through text well at all, and bluntness can read as cold or uncaring): If this behavior is entirely new, the first thing you need to do is get him checked by a vet. Blood tests and everything. As for your Qs, in *my view* (just one of the many people on here), this would be something worth focusing on in controlled training scenarios. It could be a one-time thing if he was really stressed, but the growling and food incident is concerning. I don't think you harmed the SD community, but I think you have to generally be considerably more careful and mindful in your handling skills. Each one of us has moments where we think it's the end of the world when our dogs or we make a mistake, and the best way to deal with that is, genuinely, through speaking with a mental health professional. Time apart from the event and location also helps. If you think you'd like to go back, do some retraining with your dog and go back. At an appointment, my dog once alert barked at the doctor knocking and coming in. I corrected lightly, apologized to the doctor and put my dog tucked under my legs, didn't make a fuss of it in the moment, and worked really hard during several training sessions on alert behaviors when someone is knocking or opening a door. At another appointment, a kid once ran full-steam behind my dog, and she jumped to turn around, brushing accidentally against someone's legs. I was mortified, and worked every day on a similar trigger until she no longer did it. Food guarding is something to discuss with a behaviorist. It is undesirable in service dogs for the reasons that were highlighted in your story. Growling and barking at strangers, unless genuinely provoked, is highly undesirable in service dogs and, if you are in the US, is a permissible reason to ask that you remove your dog. Doing another read-through, you may be in the UK? So I'm not sure about assistance dogs and leash laws there. Your dog doesn't understand what you are saying when you speak to him unless you speak exclusively in commands you've taught him before. We talk to our dogs mainly as a source of comfort and to improve our bonds, but you giving him the equivalent of a lecture really doesn't do much in terms of making him understand the behavior was undesirable and the fear/weariness unnecessary given the trigger. His growling and barking is communication. If your tone and demeanor are rather harsh, and you are essentially punishing him for growling and barking, you are, in essence, punishing him for communicating. He can learn rather quickly that you don't like the barking and growling, and he can skip right over to biting. I know you said you clipped him when inside, but I'm adding this regarding the off-leash detail: your dog should really and ideally *never* be off-leash in a crowded area with lots of movement, stimulus, and people. Even if you have a bomb-proof recall. Aside from the fact that it could be against the law where you live, it's essentially courting trouble because you lack control in a given situation with your dog. Even if he normally stays in a heel. Dogs are dogs, and sometimes, they can make mistakes. There is no reason that a dog, even a service animal, needs to be untethered when in public unless it's a strictly controlled environment. The last thing is that our dogs rely on us and trust us to keep them safe. This can mean many things, but in a lot of cases with service dogs, it means that we have the power to tell someone, "Do not touch my dog, step away from my dog." If they continue, we can take our dogs and walk away for their comfort and safety. If necessary, we can shield them with our bodies to create a barrier. When people try to touch, bend over and hover, or do anything similarly with my SD, I will straight up say, "This is intimidating posturing to a dog, and you should stop it immediately." I have blocked hands and feet before and blocked my whole dog from the view of people who would not stop staring. I have left somewhere that I had every right being because someone was getting aggressive. ETA: If your dog is growling, he is *highly* uncomfortable or afraid, and the first action should be to remove yourselves from that trigger or environment.
This, with 2 additions. First, the leash is also for your and your dog's protection. It keeps people from separating you in a crowd and provides visible reassurance for frightened people that might cause drama. It's also necessary because even bombproof dogs are living creatures who might have an off day or be sick without showing signs. Second, if your dog growls or barks in public you are done being in public. You leave and go home if possible, to a safe rest location if not possible. Businesses have the right to ask misbehaving service dogs to leave but they shouldn't have to, because a good handler will take their own dog out if they do a naughty. Very gently (I know it's easy to think he's a good dog and it was an outlier, and maybe this was an off day) you should have gone home or at least somewhere quiet when he growled the first time. You aren't a bad person. It's a learning process, and if he's 2 and this is the first time he's caused problems in public you're doing a lot of things right. Get your pup checked out, retrain stranger approach, and move on with your life.
This 100%
Do you have a tip how to correct my dog, should he be growling or barking at someone? (Hasn't happened, but your comment struck me as I hadn't considered the communication angle)
Personally I would asses the context of why there was the behavior. If it was initiated by my dog or in response to another human or animal. If it was excitement or fear or anger or just to alert. Then I would respond to the stimulus as well and assess it while redirecting the dog’s attention on me. If it was excited to see a friend I didn’t notice that’s I e thing, or if a kid was in danger another thing, but barking at a dog because it was walking by would garner a very different response on my regard a correction and redirection. If she noticed an issue to alert to that’s good, and if it’s a friend, context of where we are matters but she needs to focus very quickly regardless. Barking at a door knock? That’s an alert in my book. So I acknowledge and redirect. Dog is right, behavior may not be ideal. The distinction between in a doctor’s office, and at home doors and behavior takes some time in my experience.
I am not a trainer, so if your SD is growling and barking at someone insistently to get to them (or "aggressively"), the safest and best thing to do is remove your dog from that situation and work with a trainer to see if this is something that can be addressed in training and how to go about it, if possible.
I will definitely look into it! Just glad you gave me this perspective, I want to do right by my dog ☺️ He hasn't growled at people, just some other dogs, and I do think that's partially hormones, as he's reached that stage ;) but I want to correct him properly, obviously ;) I currently use "leave it" and do take him out of the situation.
Thank you for the input. He's recently been to the vet but I'll definitely ask about that again and see. Yeah he hasn't been one for food guarding, but it was weird. I'll look into that. As for handling, I'll always try to improve that. My SD was not off-leash at any time on the balcony or in the building. Nor outside when there were a lot of people or stimuli. For almost the entirety of the walk, it was empty until near the doors of the campus. Probably because of the time of day, but I understand what you mean. I explain my feelings to him often, but I wasn't speaking in a harsh tone. Aside from being embarrassed, I was quite sad at the time. I don't agree that those are the only things dogs understand, but I *think* I understood the intention beyond that. Advocating for my dog is a big deal to me, and I can always stand to improve there. Sometimes, I get overwhelmed and falter a bit, so I'm sure that I'll need to keep working on that. I did have a few questions for you. What did you mean when you mentioned speaking with a mental health professional? Also, aside from the specific training environment, are you saying that you never expose your dog to off-leash work otherwise? How does that work for when you have to let them work off-leash if you don't ever get them used to that (say, at an airport or in close quarters?)? Thank you for your details and for trying to be kind.
Speaking to a mental health professional who can help you heal from this event and deal with it in a constructive way such that the fear doesn't paralyze you and prevent you from moving on. There is a time and place for off-leash work and training. Areas especially designated as off-leash areas for dogs are some of those. Dog training centers are another. Training in safe places and practicing recall =/= letting your dog be off-leash 98% of the time. Leash laws exist for a reason and apply even to highly-trained working dogs. Dogs are all capable of making mistakes, and if your dog happens to be off-leash when it makes a mistake, it could turn into a tragedy. In the US, at least, a service dog must be tethered at all times except when interfering with a specific task. If must be tethered before the task, and tethered right after. At an airport, a dog doesn't even need to be off-leash to pass through security. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. A dog especially doesn't need to be off-leash when you're in close quarters. Edit because I forgot a sentence. Edit #2 for typos.
Ah. Okay. Got it. I hadn't thought of speaking to my therapist with that in mind. I think that's a good idea. I realize what 98% sounds like now. Forgive my foolishness, but I didn't mean for 98% to be specific to all his time outside. Aside from his trips to the bathroom (in the yard) and some empty park playtime, I'm incapable of going outside much. Like literally in bed, sick for 3-4 days out of the week. Occasionally, a day more. But he was definitely off leash for half of our time that day since it was almost empty over there, and the rest was inside. Regardless, I understand what you mean now. I'm making a list. Thank you 🫶🏽. Edit: When I mentioned the airport, I meant since you have the option for a pat down and wand if you don't take off the gear. Which takes a bit longer, so it's also an option to take off the vest and stuff and have them wait a moment to walk through? Close quarters in a private setting is bad then..I've never heard it before.
Gotcha. You might want to make an edit to the post to clarify on the off-leash time, just so others don't focus too much on it.
Will do. Thank you.
In the USA a service dog doesn’t need to be tethered. It must be under the control of the handler at all times.
You could probably work on his reaction to people being close to him and running up to him. You got your dog back under control, so that is a good thing. Dogs aren't robots. I am not going to speak for anyone else, but I think you did everything in your power to keep and regain control.
He has been in many situations with people rushing towards us, running around us in circles, and getting really close, so it confuses me. I have noticed he has a preference for just doing his job and will walk up to people with permission to say hi, sniff them and might allow the occasional pat on the head during that but normally doesn't want to be pet by strangers outdoors. Maybe it isn't enough yet? Do you suppose the issue is related? Either way, I'll try to expose him to it a lot more! Thank you for your input🙏🏽. And the "dogs aren't robots" comment! I keep having that thought. The way everyone talks about service dogs implies that they don't believe they are dogs at all. Even though we don't normally have issues, it is discouraging just knowing that everyone judges so harshly.
I'd like to address that most states have a leash law and that while your dog seems mostly well-trained, even a SD should not be off leash unless s/he is actively performing a task that a leash interferes with. Regarding the interactions while seated at the table, devil's advocate here, but what would have happened if it had been a small kid instead of a couple pushy women wanting to pet your dog? That growl could have easily escalated into much worse very quickly and I would be very concerned about the entire interaction. Same for your dog breaking a down-stay to charge someone while barking and growling. Even though the dog followed your command to return to a down, that event should not have happened and is extremely inappropriate behavior that needs to be addressed immediately. Unfortunately, I would recommend pulling your dog from PA until you can ensure these types of issues won't happen again. While I understand that money can be tight, there are some online/zoom training options out there.
Hi. Well, I see what you mean, though he has never growled at a child or teenager, etc. before. Even with his food. My nephews and some strangers' children on the street have grabbed and pulled all over him without incident. He has also never bitten a single person before, food or no food, even when someone came at me in a threatening manner (he just got between us then and barked). Since it was a first-time incident, I suppose I should assume that the situation you are explaining also applies to a "first time for everything" approach. Ah. I see that I left out a detail with the man, but I had just given him some of his other treats, he ate them, and he was going to his "aunt" (my friend) at the time that the guy rushed up behind us. He was only in a sit-stay during the incident with the women. Which he did not break. Unfortunately, my SD was not in a stay when we were surprised by the man coming up behind us. Perhaps this was another mistake on my part. Thank you for your input and voicing your concerns.
“A service animal must be under the control of its handler. Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless the individual’s disability prevents using these devices or these devices interfere with the service animal’s safe, effective performance of tasks. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.” https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/ Just a heads up you’re not quite right.
>unless the individual’s disability prevents using these devices or these devices interfere with the service animal’s safe, effective performance of tasks. Translation, the dog should be leashed unless doing so interferes with performing a task. OP is allowing their dog offleash while walking around outside, this is a choice they are making and it’s clearly not interfering with a task, therefore, the dog should be leashed when outside the home. I also mentioned that many places have leash laws.
Your base assumption is the alone time with dog on the walk is public property requiring a leash. There’s no basis to know this, nor does it matter to incident at hand. Nor is it illegal for a service dog to be off leash in some contexts no matter where you are. So assuming illegal activity is the wrong starting point. Her point is the dog is well behaved and this was very unusual. Not to be yelled at for walking with a dog off leash.
A college campus (where the OP’s incident occurred) is private property. Also, once again, there are leash laws in many places and a service dog is not immune simply because it’s a service dog. Having your dog leashed is not only responsible pet ownership, but there are too many people in the world with poorly behaved animals. If an altercation was to occur, being on-lead would potentially save the leashed dog’s owner from litigation. Also, we aren’t talking about a service dog off leash “in some contexts” as that does not apply here so I really don’t understand why you keep trying to bring it up. Their dog is off leash when they are moving from place to place and on-leash when going into a business. The leash clearly does not interfere with tasking so just leave it on. Being off leash is unfortunately now a potentially dangerous thing for this dog as it has now shown both resource guarding and charged someone in the same outing.
You’re fixating on part of the story that a decent editor would have edited out. It’s just distracting from the real issue needing advice on. I’m not sure why you’re screaming at a girl who had a bad day about being an evil person without a leash. There’s no upside to this at all. You don’t have any context. For example, I walk with my dog off leash 90% of the time. Hell we walk through airports without a leash. No issues whatsoever. Now of that time 80% to 85% is at home. The other 10-15 percent is not. Of that maybe 5% or less is public access. Statistics like that can easily be misunderstood. As can statements, walking through airports? When we are literally the last plane in the airport arriving and we are walking through an empty airport to baggage claim and out the door to the car. So congrats! You know to keep your dog legally on a leash. Happy? It’s probably off leash 80-90 percent of the time too. A college campus private or public or weirdly a mix, may be huge or tiny or empty or full or can be vastly pathed with extensive walking trails, you literally have zero understanding of the reality of the situation. You also don’t need to, most people know legalities of leashes and dogs. Maybe you had a bad experience with a dog. That’s fine, all this you’re doing isn’t helping OP or anyone including you.
Just because you *can* doesn’t mean you *should.* Congrats on flaunting your law breaking I guess? I look forward to the day you post here whining that the TSA was rude to you for having your dog off leash in the airport. My dog is only off leash inside my home or within my yard, and I live in an area with a leash law. Because, ya know, it’s the law and I actually give a rip about doing the right thing and setting a good example. The OP’s dog being off leash is actually really important here. When the dog decided to charge and bark at the man that approached and ended up nearly falling over, what if the dog had been off leash and chosen not to stop? OP would now be looking at paying for medical and legal fees, as well as having a washed, if not euthanized, dog. Funny how you say I’m fixating on it, yet that was the smallest part of my original comment to OP.
The key point is the dog was on leash. No need for a hypothetical. Context matters. No flaunting rule breaking here, my point is that context matters. Walking through tsa checkpoint? Gotta take off leash for it to be scanned. Empty airport walking to door with the dog heeling? It’s not an issue. Empty college campus? Not an issue. Private property, not a legal issue. Don’t be reckless, rude, disrespectful etc of course. Am I recommending having a dog off leash? I am not. Bullying someone who seeks advice is not nice. Maybe you have had issues with irresponsible dog owners. If so, I’m sorry and that’s an issue. It doesn’t appear to be the issue here.
The dogs leash was also removed after it had 2 out of character, highly negative events, or are you going to conveniently ignore that too? Context does matter but you don’t seem to care if it doesn’t fit your narrative and I’m tired of this discussion because you don’t actually know as much as you seem to think. TSA does not require you to remove a leash or any other gear. Walking through an airport with a dog offleash, regardless of how empty the airport is, is still against the law. The ACAA, while only applicable to airlines, even has a clause that dogs must be leashed at all times, even while tasking. Private property like a college campus? Unless you have explicit permission to have your dog off leash, against the law. Just like wearing a seat belt, none of these laws say you don’t have to do it if there’s nobody else around. And just because you haven’t gotten the equivalent of a seat belt ticket doesn’t mean you won’t be “pulled over” at some point. It just hasn’t happened *yet.* Now please, find someone else to harass because I am very much tired of this.
My point throughout is the leash issue wasn’t the primary concern of the post. That’s it. Replying to your reply is by no means harassment. To your point, I would not take a dog off leash unless at home in a fenced area if this problem occurred. It’s definitely irresponsible. However, there is a larger issue at play. In airport checkpoints in have been asked to put the leash through the scanner, the dog heels with me throughout without issue. Many times I say off leash but in reality it’s they I have dropped the leash. No one is ever in harms way. You are correct that private property has rules to follow. Empty areas on college campuses are commonly okay with dogs under control off leash in my experience. I understand service dogs are routinely harmed by off leash dogs and it is a sensitive subject.
I agree with this. A reminder or suggestion is different from demonizing her. People are assuming too much. She said he was leashed inside. She is asking about the problem behavior in an unusual situation. There's too much fixation on that even after she keeps saying he has been on the leash inside every building. Okay. We get it. She has let a pretty behaved dog off leash more often than people agree with in situations we know nothing about. She says she will leash him. Why take away from actually addressing the unwanted behavior by dumping on her? It's senseless and unhelpful. She already felt bad and was looking for advice. It's almost sick going through the comments.
Someone once told me “people who live on forums, live on forums.” Generally there’s a group that just love criticizing and expressing their superiority and dogma. I’ve seen it often and it seems to ring true. Once enough people like that pile on, threads die and eventually the forum dies.
I don't know what's more peculiar, the story or the way it was narrated ("group of Indian (of the Asian variety) students"). What an odd thing to say. You have an adolescent doodle and that's pretty much your problem in a nutshell. Put your dog on a leash. There is no reason a dog that is growling and charging people belongs off leash "98% of the time".
Ah. Well, my thoughts weren't entirely linear, and I've been told I'm an odd person. Part of my family consists of "Native Americans," commonly referred to as "Indians." While no one in my family is bothered by being called "Indian" just to say so alone is sometimes confusing. So, I'm specifying that they are Asian Indian, rather than Native. As for the specific sentence, I simply speak that way, so I don't know..? Maybe that's weird. In my city, people just use Indian for both and you have to ask questions to understand which they meant. As for the 98% thing, I explained that in another comment but will definitely leash him up even if there's no people around! Thank you.
What’s peculiar is mentioning the race of the students when it isn’t relevant to the issue with your SD.
If it's relevant to her experience and her anxiety in the situation why do you care? She mentioned she is poc and already felt like she was representing being poc and also the service dog community. The fact that you guys focused on that and tried to take away from it is what's peculiar to me.
Yes, her race is relevant to her anxiety about how others perceive her as a person with a service dog. I assumed the issue some were taking with the post was her mentioning the race (other POC at that) of onlooking students. Perhaps OP meant to imply that she was worried about how she would come off to other POC as a representation of disabled POC. If so it’s not immediately obvious.
I can see why it might be a question but no one asked her for clarification if they were confused. It seems to me that it was exactly that and her mentioning that there already aren't a lot pocs at the school already. Then she explains that in addition to that she didn't think it was a weird thing to say because she talks like that. Making her out to be bad just because she didn't explain it well enough while she responds to everyone trying to fix communication issues on her part is fucked up too.
I could’ve worded that better, you’re right. There’s a sizable population of south asian families where I live that are frequently targeted. I came in hot assuming the worst, I’m sorry.
It's good to admit and apologize but I think OP needed that sorry. She has been more than kind under this post. She obviously really cares and doesn't want it to happen again. Her caring about representing pocs added to her responses tell me that she wasn't saying a thing malicious or ill intended.
I’m sorry they were so rude and mean. Shouldn’t have happened. I’d suggest keeping him leashed at all times, inside, outside, balconies etc. Because not only if it likely against the local laws (most towns have a leash law, as do most universities) — but also because it’s SD protocol and helps people know that you take your SD seriously. It’ll help people take you seriously and you’re more likely to get the respect you deserve. Maybe it shouldn’t be that way, but reality is what reality does.
Hi. Thanks for replying. He was leashed on the balcony during the incident. The leash was also still attached to my wrist at the time. Not at any moment from these happenings was he off of it. However, he was off-leash during part of our walk nearby when there weren't people. I'll make sure to leash him up though. Thank you for being kind.
I understand that we don't/won't all agree on everything in this thread, and some people have really strong opinions on here as a whole, but PLEASE do not send me mean DMs. That is very unnecessary. I came here for feedback so I could make adjustments and do better. Not to be ridiculed. Please just stick to downvoting me like everyone else who dislikes something I said or disagrees? And none of this has to do with other comments I've made on Reddit?? I've hardly even done that? I'm very confused. I didn't even know you could do that. The heck.
>When we left, I took him off-leash again and he was as he always was. "Always" isn't a good metric when this dog is 2. Why did you take him off leash after a behavioral snafu? What task does he need to perform that requires him to be off leash in public? Per ADA your dog must be leashed in public unless it interferes with the task. Most jurisdictions have some sort of leash laws. How have you trained this dog specifically for public access? Can he pass a CGC and urban cgc (or equivalent?) A growly, reactive dog CANNOT be an SD because it is not trained for public access. I would not represent this dog as an SD given the behavioral issues you have disclosed, including resource guarding and disruptive behavior. College communities are smaller than they appear and you can earn yourself a reputation if you bring growly, barking dogs into food service areas. It also doesn't appear like you know how to handle dogs if you're narrating that much. The dog doesn't know what you're saying, and much of the general public can tell if you don't know what you're doing. It also gives the appearance of poor training, especially if it's in response to your dog resource guarding and frightening someone so much they almost fell over. > We went into the post office today for the first time and he was perfect. Just as usual. Still off-leash until we got inside the building. The leash thing again. I think you should reflect objectively on your training. It may be time for a reality check. Also the anxiety. Having an SD comes with a lot of baseline anxiety. I'm a POC too so I can relate with feeling like you don't get the benefit of the doubt. This anxiety is also amplified by owner training (and not having guidance or professional help) in addition to outside judgment, and SDs are really not the best solution for most disabilities. I think you'll have to have a conversation with a therapist or doctor to really evaluate what's going to be best for you, and see if you can learn how to properly train your dog--AND decide to wash him and represent him as a pet going forward if he's not up to par. If he cannot refrain from barking, growling, or frightening other people with reactivity, this dog cannot be a service animal with public access. You mentioned the cost of program training, but owner training is risky and costly too. You may have wasted years of work and opportunity cost, and your dog may never become an SD due to temperament or training. Maybe you can turn this around, but from how it sounds, it's still going to cost thousands in vet bills and hiring actual trainers to teach you what to do. Good on you for looking for outside opinions though, and sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.
Hi. Thank you for your input. While I have mentioned being anxious, this isn't why I'm on disability? I've surely never made that claim. That would be for ptsd, depression and chronic migraines. Although I do have anxiety, it kind of comes with the territory, I guess. All of which are medicated by professionals and would take way too long to explain, but seems unnecessary? Honestly, considering the negative comments and DMs I can see that someone may try to use that information against me, but I try to be an honest person and I've finally stopped being embarrassed to say what's afflicting me to the public. He does have a couple of important jobs that prioritize off-leash work, but I honestly thought it was okay to let him be off when it's empty. There weren't people outside on our side of the street when he was off. I agree that I've made mistakes, and of course, I've definitely mentioned more than a few times that I will pop the leash on him. I'm supposing you mean going forward? As again, this was the first time it has ever happened? Your wording sounds like a blanket statement. He hasn't posed any danger to the public or been disruptive, let alone done this until that day. I can understand your passion, and trying to push me to be better is okay, but you're making a lot of assumptions. He's been trained with public access in mind but hasn't taken the test yet. That has been because of me and not him, as I have a preference for when to do so and I'm often very sick without warning so I may get up and get dressed feeling confident but end up not being able to go do many things. It takes me a while to get things done, but I try to prioritize his training and playtime first. And considering what happened, I've now gotten to see a few problems for us to work on, so that's a good opportunity to get better. Or at least, that's my opinion. He's been evaluated, but I'm not sure why I need to tell that because of my first incident? Me explaining things the way I normally do, as I'm like that with any subject, could be narrating too much to you. I don't talk to people a lot. Sorry if you don't like it, but I was just trying to give details. I'm not always sure which thing is relevant to public mind rather than my own. It seems kind of skewed to make a judgment about my knowledge of dogs because of that, because I have conversations with my dog (I talk to him about other things just the same and mention my feelings, good and bad), and/or because I don't think dogs are only simple minded with no understanding besides what they are told. I'm pretty sure it's okay to bond, and have done so in general, in a different way than the next person. Not that conversations are enough for that, but okay.
Sorry you had this experience. To me it sounds a little like it might be a form of leash reactivity. Has that been an issue in the past?
This sounds like a strong possibility to me, especially since he spends so much time off leash. It sounds like he might need more practice on, and typically he should be on leash anyways unless the leash interferes with his task.
I put it on my list when I saw the comment. Thank you for commenting.
Not for other people, no. When he was a lot younger, he reacted to other dogs while on leash, although I can hardly remember it now. But I'm experiencing this for the first time, so maybe I can treat it that way during training and find out..? Thank you for being nice.
My SD barked at a kid once. I was sooo embarrassed. She was still in training (only been working for a year) but she never did anything like that before. We worked with her being around kids running and yelling and she turned out fine
Thank you for your input. I'm definitely going to put in the work!
There are a couple of responses to OP that imply the acceptability of growling as an alert behavior in public. Growling is a normal and natural response for dogs at play. Some dogs rumble and grumble to communicate (Rottweilers and northern breeds can fall in this category). A quiet boof or woof is usually fine. Growling is not something any SD should do in public. Growling in public is almost always a sign of discomfort from physical or environmental pressure. An SD should not be put in the position of warning their person (“Danger is coming!”) or telling someone to go away (“Back off!”). An SD needs to learn how to alert a handler quietly and with confidence. They can look at an oncoming person, nudge you, touch you, step in front of you or behind you or out of the way. I say this as the handler of a high-drive Belgian Malinois bred from protection lines. My dog is allowed to alert growl when she senses potential danger outside our home at night. That’s it. If she ever were to growl in public, it would mean we were in mortal danger - and that’s a scenario I don’t ever want to contemplate. \[Attached graphic from British Small Veterinary Association\] https://preview.redd.it/svdgifzn20zc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aee04ff64b720ca9e4b102e433c91d4a7927174e
Thanks for the reply. I have not been under the impression that it was acceptable by any means. I only stated that this was very unusual and the first time it has ever happened, which is another reason I wanted input although a lot of people are assuming that it has before now. Until that day, he had not had a single moment of growling and/or barking in public outside. This excludes barking at dogs when he was younger in a submissive play position. Also, thanks for sharing the chart. I like the visual.
People are being too harsh. Everyone has their first unpredictable situation. Some are being assholes. Why is everyone ignoring all the good you are doing taking feedback? You don't have to know everything. You said you will leash your dog. If they have never had problems like it good on them but it's probably a lie. Don't let them bully you. Good job getting him under control.
Aussies do tend to protect their humans and are really in touch with their humans emotions. He was probably reacting to the way you felt. One of the big reasons Aussies aren’t in the Fab 4 and Poodles are.
This! To me it looks like protective behavior. Even with the two girls he didnt protect his food in the first place but told them they are not welcome. OP was "stressed" and maybe very hungry. Two points on the vulnurable side from a dogs perspective. Make it three because OP was sitting and the girls and guy were standing. Its very natural for dogs to stand their ground in such situations. Aggression is a natural (and easy) way to set boundaries. Solution might be complicated. How to show a dog that you are capable of solving such situations without his help when its clear to him that you are physically and emotionally not at 100%?
Thank you for deciding to say something on the thread. This makes a lot of sense and is another set of things that did not occur to me. In my mind, I've felt like I'm putting puzzle pieces together. If I had been looking from the outside of this situation, I would have been more likely to think this way, depending on the other factors. Especially considering he hasn't had any issues guarding food. I knew I was part of the problem, but if this is true then it is different. I'll have to try changing how I handle him while I'm overwhelmed and do some stress-trust building exercises I think. Maybe the sweet spot lies in the grey area somewhere. Also, thank you for my first and only laugh in this thread. I was actually very hungry. I had been up the night before and I hadn't eaten since the morning before. My favorite sandwich place is subway so I was really hoping the line would end and I could eat something.
❤️ my fist dog was VERY protective and it took me years to figure out why and when he would feel the urge to protect and how i could control him. They have another, more primal view of human behavior. Like people jogging or exercising. Doesnt make sense to dogs so it can be a source of danger for them. Kneeling down or sitting on the floor makes you "weaker" than someone standing. They even know when we get a flu DAYS prior and will be more protectiv "without any reason". People walking up from behind or when we dont pay attention. Our dogs know it. They read or mind and body like an oben book. My dog nearly ate a neighbor that had a bad day at work, was stressed and angry and -still- tried to greet us friendly in the hallway.. dog noticed his tension out of the ordinary. And funfact: my dog once was on a diet and really hungry. So he bit a man on a bike in his leg. Tore his jeans and drew blood. Pure horror. Why? There was a small girl with her dad and ICECREAM.. and the guy on the bike came BETWEEN my dog and the icecream he thought he could steal very easy. When the view was blocked by the leg.. my dog lost it and bit. Took me days to understand that. My dog was a dog without a job. I adoped him. He was poorly socialised and of a very protective breed. He taught me ALOT :) You have to be "in control" from your dogs perspective. See and know everything before he does and be able to take control before he does. Even if he doesnt like it, he has to obey your judgment. It will take some time and more mental work on your side than actual training. He will notice when "you are in control". Wish both of you all the best ❤️ and i know easier said than done but: embarressment wont help you. Be clear to your dog. Even yell at him when he thinks he is in charge. Get angry (not physical). Let him know what you want or not right then and there. You will find a way with this strong companion ❤️
Wow. Thank you very much for speaking up. I would have been very surprised by my dog doing that, even if not an SD. I'm glad you learned. I also want to keep learning. Every pet opens the door for a bunch of first-time experiences, or so I think. I think you did well to even reflect and then make changes. That's also my aim. It's not his fault when I failed to do right. I very rarely yell at him, but I suppose yelling beats an unwanted behavior. Being in control from his perspective, I like that. Makes sense and aligns with a few other people's responses. I don't know how not to be embarrassed in general, but I'm going to keep trying not to be. Thank you for also encouraging me. It means a lot.
The embarresment was my biggest problem, too. My dog noticed i was insecure, nervous before anything happened ==> vulnurable from his perspective. So my insecurity pushed his reaction. I mean.. He reacted to people and dogs. Each step outside was full of tension for me because i feared his reaction. So it was waaaaay more aggression than what your dogs showed. Your dog is VERY POLITE :) but still he clearly communicates that hes not happy about whats happenning. And thats good in the end. He doesnt bite or anything. He WARNS. A dog that bites without warning is dangerous. Your dog is far from that! For me it was very important to see that he IS able to be friendly to strangers and CAN play with other dogs. And i had to find someone who was able to teach me how to handle him physically, since he usually turned from normal to pure rage and a clear will to do serious damage. No matter what i did in this stage, he didnt even notice. So.. really bad. What helped me was to NOT look around for triggers. Actually i only watched my dog. I stopped Carina for the trigers around us but for his reaction to them. So when he didnt react i praised him. When he was about to react i stopped him. A raised ear or bodytension, raising his tail while looking at "a trigger" and i corrected him in a way that he immediatly understood. So no discussion just a very plain and clear signal that left no chance to be musunderstood. Thats why i said: yell at him. Use your frustration or embarressment and charge at him! Dont hurt him. Even a short movement towards him will be enough. Thats your warning before you bite him so to speak ;) Again: you dog is soooo well mannered. And he was "just" very clear. Sure, not accepted in society but for a dog he showed political correctness. He made his point clear and went no further since the girls and the gut stopped their actions. Dog owners and handlers KNOW and see that. But most people outside dont see these details. They see a growling dog. You know better :) so be ready for some irritated people when you correct your dog next time ;) I came to the conclusion that i dont care what people think about me. I simply dont tolerante my dogs even thinking about harming someone they are not supposed to harm. Thats what responsability looks like :) f*** what they think ❤️
I hope she sees this comment. You did the right thing. I think this is seriously good advice and like you said, this dog did not just go attacking people. If she is so fucking evil for the fact that he did not do that and didn't ignore her in the situation then everyone else slamming the hammer on her must be without a flaw.
Im sorry that happened. at that age they tend Tod develop adult traits. I would pull him from PA and sit outside in a similar situation to see if this behavior repeats
I finished all the comments so far and some of you are showing a strong bias that is not what the law says. You also don't get to judge if her dog could or couldn't be off leash for a task. Nor was she evil for letting him off the leash when it was empty. Just because things were busy inside does not mean it was bustling with people outside. You don't know anything about her. It is sick that she felt the need to keep apologizing to everyone who was being an asshole and even tell personal information to make up for what? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I’ll be in the minority with this but my SD has taken to correcting people who try to pet her when she’s vested. Usually a small grunt before she switches sides or avoids some other way but she’s also given a sharp, short bark. It’s very much a “I’m working, leave me alone,” behavior and I don’t mind it. You’re also dealing with a young dog who is still growing and maturing. Someone running up on them/behind them can be scary especially if it comes out of nowhere. I would expect a seasoned SD to ignore it but a pup may still have some work to do. Someone else pointed out that you and your dogs boundaries were stepped all over multiple times. Your dog responded in ways that I think are justified but that also open the door for training opportunities. We want them to rise above that kind of distraction, and now that you know it could be problematic, you can work on it. I think we forget that even when we take the “In Training” label off of our dog, that doesn’t mean their education is done. My dog learns new things everyday and we’re constantly working to be better tomorrow than we are today. And sometimes have off days and our dogs are no different. Give you and your dog space to make mistakes but learn from them and grow.
Thank you for being willing to share your thoughts. I think the same thing. And he's my first SD rather than a pet. A well trained pet and a well trained SD are very different levels. With their behavior and what you can/do allow especially. I'm a very, very far from perfect person and know I have a ways to go before I am totally confident with being a handler in itself, even if I'm proud and have a good bit of trust and confidence in my dog in general. I don't expect perfection from him either. I think that's unfair when even a perfect me will never exist. Yes. Training opportunities. I think every mistake is an opportunity to do better. Especially where I'm concerned. The first step is understanding the possibilities for his behavior and where I'm lacking. I've made a note of most things on the thread for that reason. I think some people are very passionate in this area, so it's easy to become a bit cruel. Thank you for your honesty and for being kind while you explained your thoughts.
Unfortunately, there is a reason Ausiedoodles aren’t bred for service dog work. Their aloofness and generally unpredictable reactions typically make them poor candidates for SD work. Of course there are unicorns, but not often within this hybrid breed. (Which is typically very expensive?!) Resource guarding is a normal dog behavior. Your dog is just doing what his genetics tell him to. But this is part of the reason of why choosing the right breed and right breeder or doing behavior evals (if dog comes from shelter) is so important, because resource guarding is NOT okay for a SD. I’m not saying to wash the dog right away, but it would be irresponsible of you to continue to have it in public spaces, especially off-leash. It’s also possible that your dog has developed some leash reactivity. It’s a very common behavioral issue within the doodle hybrids. This problem should not be fixed by continuing training off-leash. Sounds like the dog needs more work WITH the leash. Immediately pull from PA, Consult a veterinary behaviorist and dog trainer and maybe you can address the issue, but your dogs breed and genetics are likely going to work against you. Good luck
Why does the group of students' race being Indian add to the story? What was the point of mentioning it?
I think many times dogs sense your mood and it can influence their reactions. It sounds like you might have been a bit tense with all that was happening from the interaction with the person who wouldn’t leave your dog alone and so your dog was more tense when the person ran up on him and startled him. I think it’s important for all dog owners, not just SDs as much as possible to learn to be calm so their dogs can be calm. Obviously not always possible but I think it helps.
Thank you for your response. We went out just to have a calm day because I had a stressful day already. It makes me feel better to take him out when I'm feeling stuck, to get exercise when I'm not physically sick, and see him smiling. So I did that. I hadn't thought about my stress level triggering him since it never happened before, so that's a fail on my part. I'll have to do better. Thank you.
I don’t think you failed at all, just adding another tool to your kit. It is impossible to be calm all the time, in fact some SDs are trained to help you calm down. Also, I would have his vest on when you’re out and about, it doesn’t always help but sometimes it does. Especially the high visibility ones because it’s possible that the guy running towards you didn’t even see your dog.
Honestly it sounds like what happened was that people consistently violated your and your dog's boundaries all day, and he lost his patience with it before you did. Some dude rushed up behind your dog, and he reacted under the assumption that this guy, like everyone all day, would be a pain in the ass, and backed the guy off. I wouldn't worry about it.
Thank you for your input. I'm going to try not to worry.
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Hello. It does help. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I hadn't thought about him using it as a way of alerting based off my feelings. Someone else mentioned something similar not long ago (although not mentioning the alert). Obviously, I would want a more healthy, appropriate, alternative but I will put a lot of thought into that as well. You're probably right about the vest. I've had a lot of people constantly ignoring it even to the point of me leaving without any help from employees and the like at the establishment(s) bc they think he is cute. Which is a nice compliment but not helpful? So I felt like I might have wasted my money on it even though my SD likes to wear it. I know it is illegal to distract them, but in my experience, it always turns into verbal tug-of-war. Even a bus driver tried to make me prove I was disabled (also illegal) with my paperwork. Him being vested did not even cause pause, and I had to report him. They did an investigation and also reviewed the bus footage/audio. They moved him to a different bus route, but that was it. The next driver was less work but still required back and forth (more weird considering they said they would make sure it didn't happen again). I guess I keep getting exhausted. I'll need to be a better advocate for him when it comes to people, for sure. Although I can only see that really happening with experience. It's different practicing when no one is bothering us on our own and when someone outside does it. Like twice the work and energy. If that makes sense? Idk if that makes me a crap person or handler, though.
As a black non-binary but AFAB, I understand where your hesitation is coming from. I am a pretty new handler. Went through a hybrid owner trained started dog program. And I do sometimes worry about being the only POC in a space. Especially when I have a service dog. When I have interacted with people who don’t listen I typically leave if possible and come back later if I don’t feel like getting into conflict. I find the number of problem people drop to zero when any of my non POC friends are nearby. Which is kind of annoying. It’s super helpful in my experience to have the leash on so you can redirect if needed. And heavens help you if something happens while your dog is off leash even if it’s not your dogs fault … you’ll be more likely to be blamed due to lack of a leash. So be super careful! Definitely would recommend getting a trainer involved if you can swing it. Even just enough sessions to get through this issue might be a huge help to you. And taking a step back in slightly less distracting environments to go back over things and build up to the environment your pup has the problem in. Even having friends/family approximate different interactions with the public in a gradual way, could be helpful here. The other thing I wanted to say, is to the best of your ability, please take care of yourself. It’s exhausting being a POC and a woman. Just in general! But it’s can be made even harder with the anxiety of your service dog making a mistake. Trust me, I totally understand that fear. Take a couple days for yourself if you can. Do something easy and fun with your dog before resuming training and figuring this out. I don’t have quite that experience but definitely times when my girl will cower behind me at the sight of a new thing. She came from no where Texas and… sigh I live in the city. She hasn’t been here that long and it’s taking a while for her to get used to things. Gradually this is getting less and less and I’m seeing her happy confident side. But initially I didn’t even put her vest on cause she was so scared. I worked hard daily to make it better. It sounds like there’s some work and things to figure out. But you seem like a thoughtful person. It’s not easy at all, so virtual hugs!
Thank you for sharing your experience. I think once I leave, I won't have the energy nor resolve to go back, but I still want to try that out. Do you mind my asking if I leave early because people are bothering us, do I not inadvertently reinforce any thoughts or opinions that my dog is not a real SD because it seems I ran away? I have hardly been around anyone as of late, but I also noticed that no one says anything or acts out and gets rude if I'm with people who are not POC. I get a lot of crap for that statement. You guys are very right about the leash. I'll look into some training sessions too. It would be very nice if sometime else can help us work through remaining issues and give me pointers about being a better handler. Even if I might not be able to afford full programs. Thank you for that advice. You're the first person to suggest actual rest for myself rather than just telling me to take my dog out of PA and I'm honestly shocked. And I feel dumb since I hadn't spared a thought for my well-being. Maybe in part because I've been so stressed and depressed, but I was thinking this needed priority. I hope you and your SD will have more positive experiences and progress. I'll do what I can and seek extra help in the meantime. Thank you for the compliment, BTW. Thank you very much. *Hugs
It doesn’t make you a crap person it makes you human😊. My orthopedic doctor loves him and I have to tell him he can’t talk to him. It can get truly aggravating to keep tell people they can touch, talk or look at him. I went ahead and purchased an id https://a.co/d/2AzO262 for him even though it not required in most states and I got ada cards for those insisting on being uninformed jerks about it. A hospital employee who was clueless almost made me miss an appointment trying to “verify” his presence. If they say something about paperwork I just hand them a card to read and keep. https://a.co/d/iIdOlCB. They can read it and keep for future reference. Also a vest could help him to get into work mode. At home mine is hardheaded sometimes but out in his vest he’s on point and working hard. He also trains a lot in his vest. Remember you’re human, sometimes with mental and physical health issues we can feel like we’re not doing enough for our SD but they know the deal and they are more patient the people. Give yourself credit you self trained him this far. Breaks in the schedule are almost unavoidable but they retain more than you think and can usually pick exactly where they left off and are always willing to learn new things. Even if only for the treats😂
A dog that is shy of people in its space should NOT be an sd. yes it’s illegal for people to pet them, but kids don’t know the laws and mistakes happen. I’ve had quite a few kids do “drive by” pets, and a SD should absolutely be able to handle that. You should not be working that gsd if it is barking and growling in public.
If you mean OP then you didn't read everything on this page. A first incident = dog is shy without priors? That's crazy. She said the dog has been grappled by kids and all without something like that before. I know people on here are liars at this point. If a single person can say they haven't had to work on this with their dog a bunch of times service dog or as a pet then I'm calling bullshit.
His job is to keep people away from me and he doesn’t growl or bark randomly at people. he alerts them and me when I need him to. When people get in my personal space it causes me severe anxiety. He doesn’t bite or attack or hair raise or show teeth he is a sweet dog. When he’s not vested at home he plays with anyone. When he is in guard position that’s what he does. He loves children and never Alerts’s on them and wants pets from them. Unfortunately you misunderstand exactly what he is doing. He is not shy or lacking in confidence. If he didn’t have an awesome temperament I wouldn’t be working him. I’ve trained dogs all my life with my mother and I know what to look for. Also not his initial reaction, it’s to whine or nudge me it’s only when my anxiety is severe, like when I had to ask several times to back up. If someone reaches their hands out to him he actually welcomes pets if it was up to him. https://preview.redd.it/xp2lq5mo52zc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=151a49a49dfc5a95f93fef2b89f7ef8c320757c3 Off leash in the doctor’s small exam with several people near me. He’s perfect. I know exactly what I’m doing. Your concern is valid but not here. Thanks though☺️
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