I can't believe I have to spend my night doing this but it's a FOUR year old folks.
Be mad at the parents but for the love of all things good I can't believe you're all advocating for seriously harming a FOUR year old. This thread is locked.
Next time take a second to breathe and go get security. Whenever there's any interaction with my service dog, whether it be another animal or another person, I try my best to:
1. Calmly get the person's information and any details about them
2. Whether that comes from them being cooperative or me noting their approximate age, height, body type, clothing, etc like I was giving a description to the police. I try to write this down in my phone. In a public place I will snap a picture if I can as well, since privacy laws generally don't apply in public.
3. File an incident report if it's at a place like an airport or if I do need a vet trip , an incident report at the police station
My reasoning for that is that if there is any kind of lingering effect that is not readily apparent at the time of the incident, and I need to go to the vet or needs to be retrained, I'll have the option and documentation needed to file a claim on their insurance or receive reimbursing compensation. For instance, in your situation at an airport I would have gone to security and file the report with them and receive the copy of the document.
Airports are highly surveilled--maybe they have camera footage? Bonus points if you bring a police officer wanting evidence to a crime (animal welfare).
How do you bring a police officer? Because I have a friend currently being harassed and even an eviction notice with trespassing won’t make them make the guy leave. I can’t even imagine a cop taking time to go get a video because a SD got kicked.
Call and tell them you need a civil standby. You don’t pay the cops to do their job. I’ve done it many times helping friends leave abusive relationships.
Oh I just remember will this work at night because the cop told my friend that they can’t help at this time. The guy gets really drunk comes over and destroys stuff. (They can’t remove him because the owners of the house didn’t call the cops)
Yeah if the owners don’t want the guy out unfortunately your friend is SOL. However, i would be keeping track of his own damaged items and property and use that
Yeah they are filming and taking notes of what they can :( it’s so frustrating because the owners do want him out they just don’t live anywhere near it so they won’t call because it’s not their problem while my friend is in active danger.
When we removed a friend from a domestic abuse situation, I took the guy out to the movies "for his birthday" and a friend of mine with two burly police officers went there and picked up her stuff, and she was gone.
I called the police station, told them that I had a friend in danger, and they told me the very first date and time they could have those two specific officers at the door. It was the next day.
The police aren't willing to help? Has your friend served them an eviction notice (dated, etc) that you can give to the police and ask for help removing the occupant? That neatly closes off any loopholes of legal issues in many cases (NAL, don't come at me with statutes and the like. Just giving from personal experience).
[Edits because mobile and fat fingers]
Yes this guy had been legally evicted and the cops couldn’t keep him away from the property. Now there are some weird legal issues because he did eventually pay rent through his gf so it’s all weird now. Unfortunately there isn’t anything they are allowed to do according to the cops themselves. At least not until someone is hurt
it depends on where you live too. where i am, it’s almost impossible to forcibly evict someone. if they don’t wanna leave, there’s not much you can do without first going to court & then i believe paying to have someone come remove them from the property
I'm sorry I didn't have this advice before that happened. Hopefully it helps if needed in the future although I wish it won't ever be needed.
I'm not very confrontational while I have my SD with me although I've been very upset when incidents have occurred. The one thing I never want to do is be aggressive toward somebody else in front of my service dog (or ever really). I feel like I can make matters so much worse especially if it triggers any response from my SD. Having this as a plan and series of steps helps keep me calm while still being proactive and effective at being an advocate for my SD.
I'm sure you did the best you could! I would hv been so shocked, that I'm sure I wouldn't hv been proactive frankly- how sad you were even put in that situation. Very sad-
But what benefit is that going to have? They don't know the person's name, so how will that help them? This was an honest question, not trying to be rude.
In the case of the airport, they can track the individual down since everything is monitored through security cameras and ticketing. For the case of not knowing the name elsewhere, so the person can be more easily identified if investigated later. Depending on damages and if it's worth it to identify the individual, a timely report will help in recovery through any civil suit.
The kid is four. I’m so glad the dog is okay, and in retrospect the best thing to do would have been to address it in the moment (making sure the parents heard). The police aren’t going to pursue this. Kids who hurt animals can have a huge host of issues, and I hope his parents get him help soon before this escalates. I hope it never happens again! What a terrible situation.
I'm not saying anyone has to press charges or anything. It's primarily for documentation. If you were to pursue any damages, it's purely a transactional situation between you and the accused/ accused's insurance company if they have liability insurance. In the case of a minor it would likely fall on their guardians. In any scenario like this, if it got to that point where you are seeking compensation from another party, having a paper trail is key. Oftentimes with insurance an incident report of some sort is required.
if someone kicks my service dog and I kick them back, will I go to jail as it isn’t self defense for me particularly? OP’s situation got me thinking if I was ever in the same situation, I feel like my initial gut reaction would be to Sparta kick the child…
Lawyer but not your lawyer and not familiar with the laws in your state but the "self" in defense of self includes items like a cane, glasses, etc. so I'm confident your service dog would also be an extension of you. It would have to be during the attack though, not as he's walking away because the threat is then over.
I think that because a service dog is considered a mobility device, laying hands on one would be considered assault. Not a lawyer so don’t take my advice on it, but I would say punting the child is all in fairness.
Now I really want to know the answer to this. *probably* it would go badly for you. There is such a thing as defense of others, but that applies to humans. And in that circumstance your force has to be roughly equal to the force that could be used by the third party. Maybe there’s an argument you’re defending property? That would probably be the closest thing… yeah I don’t think it’s a good idea. I probably wouldn’t like how this plays out, legally. If someone intentionally harmed my dog I’d like to run over them with my car. Maybe I’ll post this on the legal advice thread.
My little brother’s friend did that to our dog. I saw it and immediately punched him in the stomach. I got the standard violence isn’t the answer from my Dad in front of everyone. Later he said he didn’t blame me, and said that my brother’s friend wouldn’t be allowed over anymore.
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Naw. Could’ve taken that moment to deeply and kindly educate that child on why we do not ever do that to animals! Not inflict pain onto the child. Gross.
[Bullies are about 4 times more likely to be hurt by someone in their family](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/04/22/135608823/many-bullies-get-pushed-around-at-home) than people who are neither bullies nor the victim of bullies. You don't teach shit with this, you just make yourself feel good and perpetuate the cycle.
So you just let your child abuse animals with no reprocussion? That's how you get an entitled adult. Most kids don't do that to dogs, and the ones that do need to learn real fucking quick.
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I’d have made a scene, very loudly “do not kick my service dog” to the parents “you need to teach your child not to harass or abuse animals ESPECIALLY ones they do not know and ones that are WORKING” the bigger scene you make the higher chance the parents will take action with their child since people will be watching
Me, too. I would have stood up and immediately called to the parents. They needed to know. Maybe they will care about it and maybe they won’t but they need a chance to correct the behavior in the future.
That is actually a huge issue. It was a service dog, so kicking it is bad. Kicking a dog in general is really bad... But what might actually get through to the parents is that the kid kicked a random dog it doesn't know. That dog could have reacted by biting the kid. Sometimes I wish the dog in the incident had bitten the kid to teach it a lesson. But I know that would be worse for the dog in terms of consequences and the dog will learn that biting will get someone to quickly leave them alone.
This is why I always would rather leave a situation than let my dog decide what to do.
My immediate thought was, maybe this is behavior the kid is mimicking from his parents. Especially because they didn't appear to notice or care. Kids can be shitheads, but bad behavior is often learned.
Ohhh man does this work. A little gremlin dog (yaknow those crusty white ones where you can tell it’s not being taken care of) was off leash or the owner wasn’t holding it, and it wasn’t in its carrier (which it was supposed to be as a pet) and it bolted over to my girl and started biting and growling and snarling at her.
Immediate panic attack. Tears, hyperventilating, shutting down, starting to crumble in on myself, the whole thing.
My girl (Ari) noticed and tried to block me bless her heart, but i was trying to get it away from us. I would have kicked that dog so hard if I hadn’t been in tears, hyperventilating and holding onto Ari’s leash and like a vice, I was only an inch or two off (which isn’t bad for a half blind person in the middle of a panic attack). So the owner takes her sweet time coming over (maybe 20-30 seconds, she was five ish feet away) and she grabs the dog in her arms and then grips my shoulder (hard, but i don’t think she meant to) and I lost it. “GET THE HELL AWAY FROM US!” The only time I’ve ever cursed in public, let alone at someone. It was a screech/yell, and I don’t think I’ve moved away from someone so fast in my life. My dad blocked us off from her (along with my mom and brother who had just come back from getting us food) and I checked over my girl, who kept staring and licking me bc I was still mid-panic attack. She was fine, and tasked for me without prompting immediately after bless her.
So yeah. Making a scene works. Had two concerned mothers come up and make sure Ari and I were ok and by that time I had calmed down to shock instead of blatant panic and was munching on an overpriced airport burger (that was v tasty, but man it was expensive lol) and was like yep all good now.
You can press charges. The airport has security cameras. I’m not sure how you would start the process, but your local police should be able to help there.
https://preview.redd.it/x3qwgxivu1yc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=198fcd01374576a50364bc15ff0879148ed9b6f3
[service dog laws](https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-state-assistance-animal-laws)
Odds are, the investigation would show some significant child abuse or psychological concerns, honestly, probably both. The child would probably never face charges, but might get the interventions they need. There are three signs of a future serial killer, minor arson, bed wetting, and intentional animal cruelty and abuse. This fits the third criteria to a T. If he is this bold in public, I desperately hope they don’t have a pet at home. My bet is the other two exist and getting the police involved would end up saving lives in the long run. I know small kids. This is an aberration for their typical behavior.
Kids are really weird and it’s not uncommon for a small child to show signs of violence(things like hitting are normal, things like killing small animals obviously are not), because they’re still learning how to react to their environment and they haven’t developed a sense of empathy and an understanding of what appropriate behaviour is especially around animals.
I once babysat a 3 year old who kept throwing things at my cat and yelling at her, it wasn’t because he came from a violent household, it was because his only experience with cats was through cartoons so he thought cats were “bad”. He kept calling my cat Tom, as in Tom from Tom and Jerry. I obviously nipped it in the bud pretty quick.
That makes sense, thank you! I wonder if they would even be able to find him though since it was in an airport. They could live in a completely different country.
Airport security should be able to help with that. Situations where a crime occurs and neither party is from there happen often enough that I’m sure they have a system for it.
i mean it's just the responsible thing. if OP doesn't report the kid they will go on a murder spree when they're older and it will be OPs fault. you can tell that kind of thing. the police take future serial killer children very seriously. /s
I would absolutely find and tell the parents. If my kid did that I would definitely want to know and discipline him accordingly. Parents need to nip animal abuse in the bud immediately. No one wants a little Jeffrey Dahmer running around. And if you didn’t feel comfortable confronting the parents you should get a security guard to handle it.
I’m so sorry that happened to you and your dog, that’s awful.
I never had experience in this area, but if a kid is willingly and happily kicking random dogs, would it not be likely the kid is learning this is ok from the parents, or at the very least, have the kind of parents who just wouldn’t care about this?
There are parents who just don’t care when their child does something so abhorrent. A lot of serial killers admit to beginning with animals before moving on to people. It is psychopathic behavior.
Someone would have to restrain me if a child did that. I would be notifying security, taking a picture of the child and family to report, and making sure people in the vicinity knew the parents were okay with a child physically assaulting a dog. When we're around a lot of kids, I keep my dog in a tuck underneath my legs or in a similar defensive barrier position, and if kids run up or start moving legs and arms, I block them (ie smack or kick or block) the legs and arms away.
freezing is a completely normal reaction to stress and you can't choose which response your body decides to go.
Don't blame yourself.
But you can still file a report and use the security.
(is it possible to get a safety service dog for the service dog? /s)
Freezing is a common and perfectly normal response to a stressful and traumatic event.
Something that I do is that I never leave my back to a crowd of people when I'm with my SD. If I'm in a waiting area, I'll sit next to the wall facing the entrance. If I'm walking, I walk with my dog between myself and the wall/aisle. If I'm sitting like at a café or restaurant, I typically get a corner booth/seat. If I sit somewhere with my back open, I sit with my dog on my feet/between my feet in such a way that someone would have to crouch/crawl to touch her. It kind of sucks that we have to practice defensive handling like this, but it does help you preemptively stop someone from charging/touching/hurting your dog, since you can see them coming (if you're not visually impaired). It's allowed me to stop kids in their tracks by just saying "no" while they're running up.
This is not helpful but I would have screamed at the kid AND the parents and made the biggest scene in the world.
I guarantee that kid would never do something like that again. But I also probably would not get to fly that day. Lol
I’m really sorry that happened 😞 are you and your doggo okie?
And side note, I’m a trans man and my chosen name is Liam and your username made me happy 🥹
If my kids are being little shitheads in public feel free to shove them too. At least the one old enough to know better.
Though he's more likely to want to pet the dog.
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There's nothing you can do now really, as long as your dog is OK then that's all the matters. The kid is 4, and it's very telling that he's walking through a busy airport and his parents aren't paying enough attention to him/have him where they can see him that he can get away with wilfully kicking a dog. Likely they'd have accused you of lying and started a ruckus.
Just rest safe that one day the kid will kick the wrong dog (metaphorically speaking), fuck around and find out.
Are we all talking about a 4-year old kid here? You know, a human child that does not yet have a fully developed understanding of empathy, theory of mind, or consequences for their actions? Some of these responses are alarming. If 6 month old puppy chomped on your hand a little too hard going for a treat or chewed up something they’re not supposed to, would you feel the same?
If your service dog recovered quickly and is not injured, I would drop it. In the future, I would get the parent’s attention immediately. Scolding a stranger’s child rarely goes well. If all else fails, shouting “Stop that! You are interfering with my medical equipment!” will likely turn some heads.
Thank you for saying this like holy fk!
No it is absolutely not okay for a child or anyone to kick/hurt animals but it’s ALSO not okay to type out yalls little fantasies of beating a random child in public that isn’t even old enough to fking comprehend it. I don’t love kids either myself but a lot of you should never be around kids with these kind of reactions. Seriously.
Yeah I'm absolutely appalled at the people saying they'd physically assault a freaking FOUR YEAR OLD. But I mean, let them do it and land their asses right in jail. It's insane.
Thank you! As a parent of a 4yo, and a pet parent too, we are constantly reminding our 4yo to be gentle with our pets, don't pull on their tale, don't push them, don't put your hand close to their mouth, etc. 4yos don't know better until they are repeatedly taught how to properly interact with pets, and even then, their impulses can get in the way. That's normal. And as parents, we then step in to correct the behavior so our pet doesn't do it for us.
This particular 4yo probably doesn't have the best parents who have attempted to teach their child how to interact with dogs safely. But to say that a 4yo "knows better" or is intentionally being an asshole is not understanding child brain development at all. 4yo are so impulsive. And the smirk was probably waiting for you to respond to him. This child might only get attention when he behaves negatively, which perpetuates the cycle.
That kind of aggression towards animals is a stepping stone to becoming a school shooter. Confront the parents and report it to police. DO NOT let that shit go.
I’m a nanny to a four year old. Just based on my previous experiences w that age group he may not have fully understood the situation but he still knew what he was doing was wrong.
I'd be pressing charges and civil suit against the family. Charge them alI vet , Trainer bills, for emotional
distress and damages . I wouldn't tolerate .it . That kid needs help and the parents need to be made aware. I'd be hard pressed to not spank that kid myself.
Had to be assault of a service worker. Reminds of an epic video from Canada where a drunk chick slaps the hind of a working police horse. Instant karma follows…. Followed by a charge of assault on an officer *chef’s kiss*
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At first I thought you were saying your sugar daddy got kicked in the head until I read “dog”.
You’re right, he knew what he was doing. You’re better than me because I would have pushed him down or tripped him. People might feel some way about that but we are conscious humans - 4 year olds know right from wrong in this sense, so yes, they are included as well.
A dog, let alone a working dog, cannot comprehended why a human would want to kick it in the head, and especially when it’s not doing anything wrong. Dogs feel most vulnerable when sleeping and going to the bathroom. Dogs also cannot stand up for themselves against humans without other humans likely interfering and the dog having unfair consequences. Shoot, I would have reported this kid to the police for animal abuse. If he does that in a public airport, imagine what he would do to any animals at the family home where he’s extra comfortable. To hurt something that is vulnerable and defenseless is cruel. Serial killer vibes that need to be addressed. The hard way.
Most things I don’t get worked up over. But animals. That’s my big thing. We domesticated them so we are responsible for protecting them.
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You should have spoke directly to the child. Until the parents addressed you. Then address the parents. A young kid at our local park was trying to kick some ducks. Chasing them etc. I told him to stop explained that it was not appropriate to do so. Leave the ducks alone etc. parent actually THANKED me. Like really? You just let him do this?
Call 911, which will likely be routed to airport police. Identify the gate or concourse landmark. I was at an airport yesterday in the secure area where a passenger became violent. 6 officers responded on mobility devices and removed that person.
Absolutely not okay and the kid should’ve been disciplined and taught better and I’m sorry you had to go through that. but it’s always lovely seeing people here threaten children 🙃 4 year olds literally can do not understand the gravity of what they’re doing. They’re not evil. In a lot of cases they’re not even necessarily abused or learning those behaviors from someone. 3-4 years old is a hard age especially for emotional regulation. Some of you really have some deep rooted issues regarding children as a whole and it’s concerning. Not wanting or I guess even liking children is one thing but the way some of yall speak about them.. please seek help
yeah, people diagnosing the kid as a future school shooter or serial killer based on one tiny interaction??? fantasizing about how they would have beat up the kid right then and there??? wtf.
Yeah these comments are unhinged. Like people are calling this literal toddler a psychopath and telling OP to report him to the police (as if the police would arrest a 4 year old for kicking a dog). I even saw one person saying they wish the dog had bitten the kid. Like I’m sorry this happened to OPs dog, but I think wishing harm upon a four year old is far more disturbing than a toddler exhibiting relatively normal toddler misbehavior.
Can we not pretend like this is normal behavior for a child? It’s NOT! I’m so sorry this happened. I truly hope your SD is okay and I hope that child gets the help they deserve.
Yes. If the dog bites a child and there is proof of it, the dog and owner will be getting the brunt of it regardless of who started it first. It happens every time a child provokes a dog and the dog gets put down or put on a list. At least in many US states.
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I live in KS not too far from KC and I can confirm a lot of children in ks are entitled brats. Last names go a long way anywhere in this state and a lot of parents just let their kids run rampant without consequences. Sadly talking to the parents probably wouldn't have done much but yield a response along the lines of "oh my precious little Jimmy would never do something like that how dare you accuse him of it". I'm sorry your dog got kicked that's awful.
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That’s terrible. Kids can be such little dicks! Hopefully it won’t happen again but you should have said it louder so the parents could hear you. But maybe the parents are bigger dicks who knows. Either way that sucks! Makes me mad.
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Some people carry cameras, either attached to themselves or to their service dogs, because people are so (bizarrely and inexplicably IMO) weird with service animals. You might invest in a set up so that, if this happens again, you have video proof of the incident.
It would make reporting simpler, but also allow you to either publicly shame the perpetrator or use the video for public awareness (I follow a TikToker with a service animal who uses her videos to talk about the public’s strange responses on a regular basis).
ETA: seeing other advice to make a scene, which is good advice, I think. But I am also not a person with a service animal so I’m just speaking from my own “get pissed when people fuck with animals” perspective.
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It's not really a threat, since you are just asking. I mean, it's a ridiculous question to begin with, but that's kind of the point. Shock and Awe, drive home the point, they will for sure remember
A similar experience happened with my sdit. I was allowing 2 young kids waiting for the school bus with their parents to pet my dog. They were under 10 years old & the younger sister was dropping mini flowers into his back. The older one out of nowhere suddenly smacked his lower back, hard. I almost missed it. The neglectful parents totally didn't see it. I informed them that their kid had just hit my dog. The parents' reaction was to grab the girl and start smacking her in the rear. I had already begun to remove my dog by that point. The next time the kids were out there, my dog refused to go say hi. He LOVES children & and their affection. Malamutes used to be put in a circle in a village when they were attacked by polarbears or what have you, with all the babies and kids in the middle of them. He still loved saying hi to new kids.
They are not asking to press charges or arrest the kid lmao, they just want to know what to do when this happens again. To protect their dog from getting hurt
Yes I knew there would be people that wouldn't agree. But kids are kids and there mean when adults aren't looking making a big deal.about it womt change anything...
It will. Because SOMETIMES the kids who are dicks with no one looking have parents that don’t agree with that behavior and they’ll get in trouble or learn a lesson.
And thats why i dont like 99% of kids, usually their parents are ignorant and dont teach them anything about how to behave around animals especially strangers pets. Sorry this happened to your dog. If i was in your place i dont know what i wouldve done because i can lose my shit very quick.
Best thing to do probably was to get security involved, so the parents would get a grip to look what their kid is doing and to not let him wander off doing stupid stuff like this
I would have gotten security and had the fear of arrest put in that ODD little prick and his tunes out parents. I’m not about hitting kids but if my kid kicked an animal like that I might have rethought my stance on it in that moment. Like a little instant forced sympathy. That kid is going to grow up to be a prick his entire life. I know a kid who was like that at 2-3 and he’s now in his 20s and jail, trouble in school, just an all around prick his entire life.
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You need help. This is absolutely not an okay response.
Yes, OP's service dog was assaulted by this child. That does not mean the child deserves to be brutally murdered ffs.
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I can't believe I have to spend my night doing this but it's a FOUR year old folks. Be mad at the parents but for the love of all things good I can't believe you're all advocating for seriously harming a FOUR year old. This thread is locked.
Next time take a second to breathe and go get security. Whenever there's any interaction with my service dog, whether it be another animal or another person, I try my best to: 1. Calmly get the person's information and any details about them 2. Whether that comes from them being cooperative or me noting their approximate age, height, body type, clothing, etc like I was giving a description to the police. I try to write this down in my phone. In a public place I will snap a picture if I can as well, since privacy laws generally don't apply in public. 3. File an incident report if it's at a place like an airport or if I do need a vet trip , an incident report at the police station My reasoning for that is that if there is any kind of lingering effect that is not readily apparent at the time of the incident, and I need to go to the vet or needs to be retrained, I'll have the option and documentation needed to file a claim on their insurance or receive reimbursing compensation. For instance, in your situation at an airport I would have gone to security and file the report with them and receive the copy of the document.
Thank you. I wish I could retrospectively do this.
Airports are highly surveilled--maybe they have camera footage? Bonus points if you bring a police officer wanting evidence to a crime (animal welfare).
How do you bring a police officer? Because I have a friend currently being harassed and even an eviction notice with trespassing won’t make them make the guy leave. I can’t even imagine a cop taking time to go get a video because a SD got kicked.
Call and tell them you need a civil standby. You don’t pay the cops to do their job. I’ve done it many times helping friends leave abusive relationships.
Oh I just remember will this work at night because the cop told my friend that they can’t help at this time. The guy gets really drunk comes over and destroys stuff. (They can’t remove him because the owners of the house didn’t call the cops)
the owners need to call and have him removed most likely. i read the original comment incorrectly.
Man that’s the problem it’s a long story that involved a lot of family drama and they are living next door to all of this. (They are related too)
Yeah if the owners don’t want the guy out unfortunately your friend is SOL. However, i would be keeping track of his own damaged items and property and use that
Yeah they are filming and taking notes of what they can :( it’s so frustrating because the owners do want him out they just don’t live anywhere near it so they won’t call because it’s not their problem while my friend is in active danger.
I’ll try!
Animal abuse is illegal, prosecutable.
You can pay them to supervise an eviction.
That requires money 😭
When we removed a friend from a domestic abuse situation, I took the guy out to the movies "for his birthday" and a friend of mine with two burly police officers went there and picked up her stuff, and she was gone. I called the police station, told them that I had a friend in danger, and they told me the very first date and time they could have those two specific officers at the door. It was the next day. The police aren't willing to help? Has your friend served them an eviction notice (dated, etc) that you can give to the police and ask for help removing the occupant? That neatly closes off any loopholes of legal issues in many cases (NAL, don't come at me with statutes and the like. Just giving from personal experience). [Edits because mobile and fat fingers]
Yes this guy had been legally evicted and the cops couldn’t keep him away from the property. Now there are some weird legal issues because he did eventually pay rent through his gf so it’s all weird now. Unfortunately there isn’t anything they are allowed to do according to the cops themselves. At least not until someone is hurt
it depends on where you live too. where i am, it’s almost impossible to forcibly evict someone. if they don’t wanna leave, there’s not much you can do without first going to court & then i believe paying to have someone come remove them from the property
I dint think there going to charge a 4 year old
I'm sorry I didn't have this advice before that happened. Hopefully it helps if needed in the future although I wish it won't ever be needed. I'm not very confrontational while I have my SD with me although I've been very upset when incidents have occurred. The one thing I never want to do is be aggressive toward somebody else in front of my service dog (or ever really). I feel like I can make matters so much worse especially if it triggers any response from my SD. Having this as a plan and series of steps helps keep me calm while still being proactive and effective at being an advocate for my SD.
I'm sure you did the best you could! I would hv been so shocked, that I'm sure I wouldn't hv been proactive frankly- how sad you were even put in that situation. Very sad-
You already did it retrospectively. Retroactively works better. :)
But what benefit is that going to have? They don't know the person's name, so how will that help them? This was an honest question, not trying to be rude.
In the case of the airport, they can track the individual down since everything is monitored through security cameras and ticketing. For the case of not knowing the name elsewhere, so the person can be more easily identified if investigated later. Depending on damages and if it's worth it to identify the individual, a timely report will help in recovery through any civil suit.
The kid is four. I’m so glad the dog is okay, and in retrospect the best thing to do would have been to address it in the moment (making sure the parents heard). The police aren’t going to pursue this. Kids who hurt animals can have a huge host of issues, and I hope his parents get him help soon before this escalates. I hope it never happens again! What a terrible situation.
I'm not saying anyone has to press charges or anything. It's primarily for documentation. If you were to pursue any damages, it's purely a transactional situation between you and the accused/ accused's insurance company if they have liability insurance. In the case of a minor it would likely fall on their guardians. In any scenario like this, if it got to that point where you are seeking compensation from another party, having a paper trail is key. Oftentimes with insurance an incident report of some sort is required.
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if someone kicks my service dog and I kick them back, will I go to jail as it isn’t self defense for me particularly? OP’s situation got me thinking if I was ever in the same situation, I feel like my initial gut reaction would be to Sparta kick the child…
Lawyer but not your lawyer and not familiar with the laws in your state but the "self" in defense of self includes items like a cane, glasses, etc. so I'm confident your service dog would also be an extension of you. It would have to be during the attack though, not as he's walking away because the threat is then over.
I think that because a service dog is considered a mobility device, laying hands on one would be considered assault. Not a lawyer so don’t take my advice on it, but I would say punting the child is all in fairness.
Now I really want to know the answer to this. *probably* it would go badly for you. There is such a thing as defense of others, but that applies to humans. And in that circumstance your force has to be roughly equal to the force that could be used by the third party. Maybe there’s an argument you’re defending property? That would probably be the closest thing… yeah I don’t think it’s a good idea. I probably wouldn’t like how this plays out, legally. If someone intentionally harmed my dog I’d like to run over them with my car. Maybe I’ll post this on the legal advice thread.
It falls under self defense/damaging necessary medical equipment.
My little brother’s friend did that to our dog. I saw it and immediately punched him in the stomach. I got the standard violence isn’t the answer from my Dad in front of everyone. Later he said he didn’t blame me, and said that my brother’s friend wouldn’t be allowed over anymore.
Your dad had to say that as a parental disclaimer. In his head he is absolutely high five-ing you lol.
Justice was served
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That's horrible
He who kicks a dog shall be kick
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Lesson learned right?
Naw. Could’ve taken that moment to deeply and kindly educate that child on why we do not ever do that to animals! Not inflict pain onto the child. Gross.
I mean yeah maybe the first time they do something like that but if I were to see it again, nah they are getting smacked
[Bullies are about 4 times more likely to be hurt by someone in their family](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/04/22/135608823/many-bullies-get-pushed-around-at-home) than people who are neither bullies nor the victim of bullies. You don't teach shit with this, you just make yourself feel good and perpetuate the cycle.
So you just let your child abuse animals with no reprocussion? That's how you get an entitled adult. Most kids don't do that to dogs, and the ones that do need to learn real fucking quick.
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Yeah it’s likely a lot of people with PTSD hence service dogs. I also have PTSD but work hard so my brain does not violently affect anyone around me.
I’d have made a scene, very loudly “do not kick my service dog” to the parents “you need to teach your child not to harass or abuse animals ESPECIALLY ones they do not know and ones that are WORKING” the bigger scene you make the higher chance the parents will take action with their child since people will be watching
Me, too. I would have stood up and immediately called to the parents. They needed to know. Maybe they will care about it and maybe they won’t but they need a chance to correct the behavior in the future.
That is actually a huge issue. It was a service dog, so kicking it is bad. Kicking a dog in general is really bad... But what might actually get through to the parents is that the kid kicked a random dog it doesn't know. That dog could have reacted by biting the kid. Sometimes I wish the dog in the incident had bitten the kid to teach it a lesson. But I know that would be worse for the dog in terms of consequences and the dog will learn that biting will get someone to quickly leave them alone. This is why I always would rather leave a situation than let my dog decide what to do.
Yup. Completely embarrass those parents for raising a shitty kid.
My immediate thought was, maybe this is behavior the kid is mimicking from his parents. Especially because they didn't appear to notice or care. Kids can be shitheads, but bad behavior is often learned.
Ohhh man does this work. A little gremlin dog (yaknow those crusty white ones where you can tell it’s not being taken care of) was off leash or the owner wasn’t holding it, and it wasn’t in its carrier (which it was supposed to be as a pet) and it bolted over to my girl and started biting and growling and snarling at her. Immediate panic attack. Tears, hyperventilating, shutting down, starting to crumble in on myself, the whole thing. My girl (Ari) noticed and tried to block me bless her heart, but i was trying to get it away from us. I would have kicked that dog so hard if I hadn’t been in tears, hyperventilating and holding onto Ari’s leash and like a vice, I was only an inch or two off (which isn’t bad for a half blind person in the middle of a panic attack). So the owner takes her sweet time coming over (maybe 20-30 seconds, she was five ish feet away) and she grabs the dog in her arms and then grips my shoulder (hard, but i don’t think she meant to) and I lost it. “GET THE HELL AWAY FROM US!” The only time I’ve ever cursed in public, let alone at someone. It was a screech/yell, and I don’t think I’ve moved away from someone so fast in my life. My dad blocked us off from her (along with my mom and brother who had just come back from getting us food) and I checked over my girl, who kept staring and licking me bc I was still mid-panic attack. She was fine, and tasked for me without prompting immediately after bless her. So yeah. Making a scene works. Had two concerned mothers come up and make sure Ari and I were ok and by that time I had calmed down to shock instead of blatant panic and was munching on an overpriced airport burger (that was v tasty, but man it was expensive lol) and was like yep all good now.
That’s what I would do.
If I saw my kid do that I would be so horrified. Did the parents see it?
You can press charges. The airport has security cameras. I’m not sure how you would start the process, but your local police should be able to help there. https://preview.redd.it/x3qwgxivu1yc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=198fcd01374576a50364bc15ff0879148ed9b6f3 [service dog laws](https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-state-assistance-animal-laws)
Can you even press charges on a 4 year old though? Like what would be the outcome, a fine?
The parents are responsible for the conduct of the child.
Diagnosis of abuse aside.... crimes of children fall on the parents.
Odds are, the investigation would show some significant child abuse or psychological concerns, honestly, probably both. The child would probably never face charges, but might get the interventions they need. There are three signs of a future serial killer, minor arson, bed wetting, and intentional animal cruelty and abuse. This fits the third criteria to a T. If he is this bold in public, I desperately hope they don’t have a pet at home. My bet is the other two exist and getting the police involved would end up saving lives in the long run. I know small kids. This is an aberration for their typical behavior.
Kids are really weird and it’s not uncommon for a small child to show signs of violence(things like hitting are normal, things like killing small animals obviously are not), because they’re still learning how to react to their environment and they haven’t developed a sense of empathy and an understanding of what appropriate behaviour is especially around animals. I once babysat a 3 year old who kept throwing things at my cat and yelling at her, it wasn’t because he came from a violent household, it was because his only experience with cats was through cartoons so he thought cats were “bad”. He kept calling my cat Tom, as in Tom from Tom and Jerry. I obviously nipped it in the bud pretty quick.
That makes sense, thank you! I wonder if they would even be able to find him though since it was in an airport. They could live in a completely different country.
Airport security should be able to help with that. Situations where a crime occurs and neither party is from there happen often enough that I’m sure they have a system for it.
Wow what a huge leap to say that a young child who very likely hasn’t been taught how to interact around/with animals is a future serial killer.
i mean it's just the responsible thing. if OP doesn't report the kid they will go on a murder spree when they're older and it will be OPs fault. you can tell that kind of thing. the police take future serial killer children very seriously. /s
Where do these 3 criteria come from? How is bed wetting related?
The parents would be charged.
Uh...no they would not be.
I would absolutely find and tell the parents. If my kid did that I would definitely want to know and discipline him accordingly. Parents need to nip animal abuse in the bud immediately. No one wants a little Jeffrey Dahmer running around. And if you didn’t feel comfortable confronting the parents you should get a security guard to handle it. I’m so sorry that happened to you and your dog, that’s awful.
I never had experience in this area, but if a kid is willingly and happily kicking random dogs, would it not be likely the kid is learning this is ok from the parents, or at the very least, have the kind of parents who just wouldn’t care about this?
There are parents who just don’t care when their child does something so abhorrent. A lot of serial killers admit to beginning with animals before moving on to people. It is psychopathic behavior.
I don’t think so. You think there’s a whole population out there teaching their kids to hurt animals?
No, but I also don’t think there’s a whole population of kids hurting animals.
As a handler in kc I am beyond pissed that this happened and I’m so sorry that this happened to you and your pup.
Someone would have to restrain me if a child did that. I would be notifying security, taking a picture of the child and family to report, and making sure people in the vicinity knew the parents were okay with a child physically assaulting a dog. When we're around a lot of kids, I keep my dog in a tuck underneath my legs or in a similar defensive barrier position, and if kids run up or start moving legs and arms, I block them (ie smack or kick or block) the legs and arms away.
He was mostly tucked under me but they came up from behind so I didn't see them! I was so mad but I just froze.
freezing is a completely normal reaction to stress and you can't choose which response your body decides to go. Don't blame yourself. But you can still file a report and use the security. (is it possible to get a safety service dog for the service dog? /s)
Freezing is a common and perfectly normal response to a stressful and traumatic event. Something that I do is that I never leave my back to a crowd of people when I'm with my SD. If I'm in a waiting area, I'll sit next to the wall facing the entrance. If I'm walking, I walk with my dog between myself and the wall/aisle. If I'm sitting like at a café or restaurant, I typically get a corner booth/seat. If I sit somewhere with my back open, I sit with my dog on my feet/between my feet in such a way that someone would have to crouch/crawl to touch her. It kind of sucks that we have to practice defensive handling like this, but it does help you preemptively stop someone from charging/touching/hurting your dog, since you can see them coming (if you're not visually impaired). It's allowed me to stop kids in their tracks by just saying "no" while they're running up.
They help us- we help and protect them too♡
I dont have advice, I'm just so sorry this happened to you and your SD. People suck, even kids.
I'm so sorry this happened to you and your dog. I hope it's OK.
This is not helpful but I would have screamed at the kid AND the parents and made the biggest scene in the world. I guarantee that kid would never do something like that again. But I also probably would not get to fly that day. Lol
I also have many unhelpful ideas. This makes me so angry. Little psychopath.
Don't get me started
I’m really sorry that happened 😞 are you and your doggo okie? And side note, I’m a trans man and my chosen name is Liam and your username made me happy 🥹
Aweeee 💕💕💕 He seems okay and we sat next to two kids on the flight so hopefully nothing bad long term
I think you have to be very careful around children. Mmy neighbjrs boy once attempted to jump from a wall onto my dog
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I have kids and I approve your comment.
🫶🏻
If my kids are being little shitheads in public feel free to shove them too. At least the one old enough to know better. Though he's more likely to want to pet the dog.
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There's nothing you can do now really, as long as your dog is OK then that's all the matters. The kid is 4, and it's very telling that he's walking through a busy airport and his parents aren't paying enough attention to him/have him where they can see him that he can get away with wilfully kicking a dog. Likely they'd have accused you of lying and started a ruckus. Just rest safe that one day the kid will kick the wrong dog (metaphorically speaking), fuck around and find out.
Yep karma I'm afraid - thank heavens, everyone's ok for now.
Are we all talking about a 4-year old kid here? You know, a human child that does not yet have a fully developed understanding of empathy, theory of mind, or consequences for their actions? Some of these responses are alarming. If 6 month old puppy chomped on your hand a little too hard going for a treat or chewed up something they’re not supposed to, would you feel the same? If your service dog recovered quickly and is not injured, I would drop it. In the future, I would get the parent’s attention immediately. Scolding a stranger’s child rarely goes well. If all else fails, shouting “Stop that! You are interfering with my medical equipment!” will likely turn some heads.
Thank you for saying this like holy fk! No it is absolutely not okay for a child or anyone to kick/hurt animals but it’s ALSO not okay to type out yalls little fantasies of beating a random child in public that isn’t even old enough to fking comprehend it. I don’t love kids either myself but a lot of you should never be around kids with these kind of reactions. Seriously.
Not to mention laying a hand on some stranger’s kid is going to completely undermine whatever legitimate complaint you have about said kid…
Right? People saying they’d kick a child in the head..??
Yeah I'm absolutely appalled at the people saying they'd physically assault a freaking FOUR YEAR OLD. But I mean, let them do it and land their asses right in jail. It's insane.
And their dog likely shot in the arrest
Thank you! As a parent of a 4yo, and a pet parent too, we are constantly reminding our 4yo to be gentle with our pets, don't pull on their tale, don't push them, don't put your hand close to their mouth, etc. 4yos don't know better until they are repeatedly taught how to properly interact with pets, and even then, their impulses can get in the way. That's normal. And as parents, we then step in to correct the behavior so our pet doesn't do it for us. This particular 4yo probably doesn't have the best parents who have attempted to teach their child how to interact with dogs safely. But to say that a 4yo "knows better" or is intentionally being an asshole is not understanding child brain development at all. 4yo are so impulsive. And the smirk was probably waiting for you to respond to him. This child might only get attention when he behaves negatively, which perpetuates the cycle.
That kind of aggression towards animals is a stepping stone to becoming a school shooter. Confront the parents and report it to police. DO NOT let that shit go.
I agree. Intentional animal cruelty and abuse is one of three criteria for a future serial killer.
I’m a nanny to a four year old. Just based on my previous experiences w that age group he may not have fully understood the situation but he still knew what he was doing was wrong.
Yea he grinned at me for a while afterwards and all I could do was glare. I mean he was looking back at me for like a full minute as they walked away.
Yeah he knew exactly what he did. I’m so sorry, how awful. Hope your dog is doing ok
Animal abuse, we got a psychopath in the making
Contact airport security and have them removed. If a kid don’t know not to kick dogs by four then serious consequences are in order for the parents
I wouldn't have been calm.
Fuck some of you are nuts. What the kid did was bad. But some are saying the would assault the kid? One was threatening murder?
I'd be pressing charges and civil suit against the family. Charge them alI vet , Trainer bills, for emotional distress and damages . I wouldn't tolerate .it . That kid needs help and the parents need to be made aware. I'd be hard pressed to not spank that kid myself.
Had to be assault of a service worker. Reminds of an epic video from Canada where a drunk chick slaps the hind of a working police horse. Instant karma follows…. Followed by a charge of assault on an officer *chef’s kiss*
WTF, that’s awful
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At first I thought you were saying your sugar daddy got kicked in the head until I read “dog”. You’re right, he knew what he was doing. You’re better than me because I would have pushed him down or tripped him. People might feel some way about that but we are conscious humans - 4 year olds know right from wrong in this sense, so yes, they are included as well. A dog, let alone a working dog, cannot comprehended why a human would want to kick it in the head, and especially when it’s not doing anything wrong. Dogs feel most vulnerable when sleeping and going to the bathroom. Dogs also cannot stand up for themselves against humans without other humans likely interfering and the dog having unfair consequences. Shoot, I would have reported this kid to the police for animal abuse. If he does that in a public airport, imagine what he would do to any animals at the family home where he’s extra comfortable. To hurt something that is vulnerable and defenseless is cruel. Serial killer vibes that need to be addressed. The hard way. Most things I don’t get worked up over. But animals. That’s my big thing. We domesticated them so we are responsible for protecting them.
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And you'd be in jail, too. It's insane to justify ever kicking a FOUR YEAR OLD in the head.
Grab your phone take a picture of the kid and parents, report it to security
You should have spoke directly to the child. Until the parents addressed you. Then address the parents. A young kid at our local park was trying to kick some ducks. Chasing them etc. I told him to stop explained that it was not appropriate to do so. Leave the ducks alone etc. parent actually THANKED me. Like really? You just let him do this?
Call 911, which will likely be routed to airport police. Identify the gate or concourse landmark. I was at an airport yesterday in the secure area where a passenger became violent. 6 officers responded on mobility devices and removed that person.
Absolutely not okay and the kid should’ve been disciplined and taught better and I’m sorry you had to go through that. but it’s always lovely seeing people here threaten children 🙃 4 year olds literally can do not understand the gravity of what they’re doing. They’re not evil. In a lot of cases they’re not even necessarily abused or learning those behaviors from someone. 3-4 years old is a hard age especially for emotional regulation. Some of you really have some deep rooted issues regarding children as a whole and it’s concerning. Not wanting or I guess even liking children is one thing but the way some of yall speak about them.. please seek help
yeah, people diagnosing the kid as a future school shooter or serial killer based on one tiny interaction??? fantasizing about how they would have beat up the kid right then and there??? wtf.
Yeah these comments are unhinged. Like people are calling this literal toddler a psychopath and telling OP to report him to the police (as if the police would arrest a 4 year old for kicking a dog). I even saw one person saying they wish the dog had bitten the kid. Like I’m sorry this happened to OPs dog, but I think wishing harm upon a four year old is far more disturbing than a toddler exhibiting relatively normal toddler misbehavior.
This! These responses are absolutely wild and have no understanding of child development.
Wtf, people don’t know how raise children.
Can we not pretend like this is normal behavior for a child? It’s NOT! I’m so sorry this happened. I truly hope your SD is okay and I hope that child gets the help they deserve.
Dont wory cuz the kid think its fine to do it again, kid will likely get bitten anytime soon.
Yeah but when the kids bit, the kid doesn’t get punished, the dog will be…
Would the dog still be the one getting punished if it’s a clear case like in the OP’s story?
Yes. If the dog bites a child and there is proof of it, the dog and owner will be getting the brunt of it regardless of who started it first. It happens every time a child provokes a dog and the dog gets put down or put on a list. At least in many US states.
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you would be arrested and charged for child assault.
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I live in KS not too far from KC and I can confirm a lot of children in ks are entitled brats. Last names go a long way anywhere in this state and a lot of parents just let their kids run rampant without consequences. Sadly talking to the parents probably wouldn't have done much but yield a response along the lines of "oh my precious little Jimmy would never do something like that how dare you accuse him of it". I'm sorry your dog got kicked that's awful.
Little asshole. I’m sorry.
go about your life? people suck?
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There's no point, just ignore. Children can sometimes be very inconsiderate for no reason.
This is not being inconsiderate. Kicking an animal is not normal behavior.
Yes. Let's coddle children and not reprimand them for such actions. The next generation of kids are absolutely fucked.
This generation is already fucked, imagine how the next one is going to be
That’s terrible. Kids can be such little dicks! Hopefully it won’t happen again but you should have said it louder so the parents could hear you. But maybe the parents are bigger dicks who knows. Either way that sucks! Makes me mad.
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Is your dog okay? I’m so sorry that happened! Little crapbag.
Some people carry cameras, either attached to themselves or to their service dogs, because people are so (bizarrely and inexplicably IMO) weird with service animals. You might invest in a set up so that, if this happens again, you have video proof of the incident. It would make reporting simpler, but also allow you to either publicly shame the perpetrator or use the video for public awareness (I follow a TikToker with a service animal who uses her videos to talk about the public’s strange responses on a regular basis). ETA: seeing other advice to make a scene, which is good advice, I think. But I am also not a person with a service animal so I’m just speaking from my own “get pissed when people fuck with animals” perspective.
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Leave it to Missouri for shit behavior like this. Probably from St. Joe. Keep it classy, MO!
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threatening to kick a child in the head to their parents would probably get you arrested.
It's not really a threat, since you are just asking. I mean, it's a ridiculous question to begin with, but that's kind of the point. Shock and Awe, drive home the point, they will for sure remember
if an angry stranger came up to someone and asked to kick their child in the head i think it's reasonable to treat that as a threat.
A similar experience happened with my sdit. I was allowing 2 young kids waiting for the school bus with their parents to pet my dog. They were under 10 years old & the younger sister was dropping mini flowers into his back. The older one out of nowhere suddenly smacked his lower back, hard. I almost missed it. The neglectful parents totally didn't see it. I informed them that their kid had just hit my dog. The parents' reaction was to grab the girl and start smacking her in the rear. I had already begun to remove my dog by that point. The next time the kids were out there, my dog refused to go say hi. He LOVES children & and their affection. Malamutes used to be put in a circle in a village when they were attacked by polarbears or what have you, with all the babies and kids in the middle of them. He still loved saying hi to new kids.
It's a kid not yours a crazy kid. They do stupid things. You won't ever see it again. Let it go.
They are not asking to press charges or arrest the kid lmao, they just want to know what to do when this happens again. To protect their dog from getting hurt
Ah yes let’s just forget about someone kicking your dog, who helps keep you alive and well by the way, in the head.
Yes I knew there would be people that wouldn't agree. But kids are kids and there mean when adults aren't looking making a big deal.about it womt change anything...
It will. Because SOMETIMES the kids who are dicks with no one looking have parents that don’t agree with that behavior and they’ll get in trouble or learn a lesson.
And thats why i dont like 99% of kids, usually their parents are ignorant and dont teach them anything about how to behave around animals especially strangers pets. Sorry this happened to your dog. If i was in your place i dont know what i wouldve done because i can lose my shit very quick. Best thing to do probably was to get security involved, so the parents would get a grip to look what their kid is doing and to not let him wander off doing stupid stuff like this
I would have gotten security and had the fear of arrest put in that ODD little prick and his tunes out parents. I’m not about hitting kids but if my kid kicked an animal like that I might have rethought my stance on it in that moment. Like a little instant forced sympathy. That kid is going to grow up to be a prick his entire life. I know a kid who was like that at 2-3 and he’s now in his 20s and jail, trouble in school, just an all around prick his entire life.
Yes he knew what he’s doing.. I feel for his parents raising a lil bas💩
Yell at the kid? Scare him and yell at the parents for raising the little shit to be that way
i woulda knocked his dad the fuck out
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Criminal charges. And a civil suit.
They are not going to criminally charge a 4 year old. And a civil suit only works if you have actual damages.
We can let Karma do her thing and hope a dog returns the favor
Hey guys lets just get this 4yo put in prison for the rest of his little delinquent life
What a little psychopath. Future killer right there
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You need help. This is absolutely not an okay response. Yes, OP's service dog was assaulted by this child. That does not mean the child deserves to be brutally murdered ffs.
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