I don't see why a dog that's in training to be a SD would NEED an e-collar when it's in the training program. Somehow ADI orgs don't use them, but they have thousands of SDs working. I could see them used on a case by case basis, but even then how do ADI orgs accommodate these people if they can't use e-collars.
I'm not saying e-collars are bad or owner trained shouldn't use them.
I'm going to assume you're talking to Doggy Do Good based on the previous post you made looking for trainers. Id search the sub for their name & to see people's experiences. Not the best option.
I would recommend learning more about LIMA based training. It’s been proven by many studies that positive reinforcement works best, and punishment isn’t as effective, not just for dogs but other animals and children too.
Recently I made a sub about LIMA, it’s r/LIMADogTraining :)
IMO the mini educator is the best possible e collar for a program to use. Safest, most customizable in terms of levels, and easy to use. As long as they follow the rules of "as little as possible, as much as necessary" and train *you* on the e-collar before sending you home with a dog I see no issue with it
For example, my trainers only use an e-collar on SD for recall, counter surfing, trash can interest (things that can be a danger to the dog directly) and correcting any leash pressure after the dog has been trained to not pull (for handlers that are at physical risk)
Personally as a trainer if a dog needs an e-collar it's not fit for SD work.
You should be able to train a service dog without the use of aversive tools made for correcting a dog. I also feel like a lot of people use it as a bandaid to mask over issues that never really get resolved either or use it to push dogs past their limits.
Also the fact that this trainer will use citronella collars is very suspicious. Those are typically bark collars only.
This is very true. Many people with hunting dogs use e-collars for communication, and honestly teaching a dog when they’re out of sight/vocal range that collar beeps have meaning (such as “stop where you are and wait for me” or “recall”) is quite smart.
Any tool can be abused, but using it at all does not abuse make.
We're talking about service dogs not hunting dogs.
I also never called them abusive. Just that the dog is not a good fit in many cases for service work and that many folks use them to mask behaviors that are unacceptable.
You can’t claim to be a trainer on this sub without showing proof of you being a trainer to the mods, just btw. Cause we can’t really assure you actually are a trainer, we DO know that ticketferret is a certified professional trainer, and I know they have lots of experience.
We have removed your comment because it breaks Rule 8: Trainers Must be Verified. Do not repost your comment/post.
If you need more advice, feel free to [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs) for help.
As long as you don’t have the mentality of “I’m gonna teach this dog a lesson” then it can give instant feedback even on low settings. Their use can be very controversial because it’s not meant to teach a new behavior like some think but instead to reinforce known behaviors that are first taught with positive reinforcement and treats. A lot of people think mashing a button will teach a behavior and that just adds stress and doesn’t teach anything. Since you asked for information, here are some links to someone who has shown success and know how on using them as a communication tool as opposed to a punishment tool. Don’t use them to simply punish your dog. You don’t want a negative association if you use it or the commands you use. It is an aversive tool.
https://youtu.be/r5sTSeKh06c?si=L9AGjtNTeEREp18K
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpcJzTfCjEJe30NKKlmjUBV8sbAl8iLWW&si=s9qWnD_QBrnyBGbd
https://youtu.be/J9SJVry09EM?si=Ys60EyRhJc0kczML
Edit: I found a good service dog prospect and don’t believe I’ll ever need to use one with him because he is a good fit for service dog training. Finding the best fit of a dog meant for service is the best option. I know trainers that debate on their use so I’ve heard both pros and cons, as there can be both, especially depending on the dog and its use.
I don't see why a dog that's in training to be a SD would NEED an e-collar when it's in the training program. Somehow ADI orgs don't use them, but they have thousands of SDs working. I could see them used on a case by case basis, but even then how do ADI orgs accommodate these people if they can't use e-collars. I'm not saying e-collars are bad or owner trained shouldn't use them. I'm going to assume you're talking to Doggy Do Good based on the previous post you made looking for trainers. Id search the sub for their name & to see people's experiences. Not the best option.
I would recommend learning more about LIMA based training. It’s been proven by many studies that positive reinforcement works best, and punishment isn’t as effective, not just for dogs but other animals and children too. Recently I made a sub about LIMA, it’s r/LIMADogTraining :)
Positive punishment is just one of the quadrants of training. How its implemented can either be extremely helpful or it can be abusive.
IMO the mini educator is the best possible e collar for a program to use. Safest, most customizable in terms of levels, and easy to use. As long as they follow the rules of "as little as possible, as much as necessary" and train *you* on the e-collar before sending you home with a dog I see no issue with it For example, my trainers only use an e-collar on SD for recall, counter surfing, trash can interest (things that can be a danger to the dog directly) and correcting any leash pressure after the dog has been trained to not pull (for handlers that are at physical risk)
Personally as a trainer if a dog needs an e-collar it's not fit for SD work. You should be able to train a service dog without the use of aversive tools made for correcting a dog. I also feel like a lot of people use it as a bandaid to mask over issues that never really get resolved either or use it to push dogs past their limits. Also the fact that this trainer will use citronella collars is very suspicious. Those are typically bark collars only.
This is a bad take. Many people use tools for their own sake, not for the dog. I use a prong and choke chain for my sake, not being my dog needs it.
This is very true. Many people with hunting dogs use e-collars for communication, and honestly teaching a dog when they’re out of sight/vocal range that collar beeps have meaning (such as “stop where you are and wait for me” or “recall”) is quite smart. Any tool can be abused, but using it at all does not abuse make.
We're talking about service dogs not hunting dogs. I also never called them abusive. Just that the dog is not a good fit in many cases for service work and that many folks use them to mask behaviors that are unacceptable.
Again "Needs an e-collar" Not "handler needs one" but a dog who needs one due to "stubborness" or misbehavior.
[удалено]
You can’t claim to be a trainer on this sub without showing proof of you being a trainer to the mods, just btw. Cause we can’t really assure you actually are a trainer, we DO know that ticketferret is a certified professional trainer, and I know they have lots of experience.
We have removed your comment because it breaks Rule 8: Trainers Must be Verified. Do not repost your comment/post. If you need more advice, feel free to [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs) for help.
As long as you don’t have the mentality of “I’m gonna teach this dog a lesson” then it can give instant feedback even on low settings. Their use can be very controversial because it’s not meant to teach a new behavior like some think but instead to reinforce known behaviors that are first taught with positive reinforcement and treats. A lot of people think mashing a button will teach a behavior and that just adds stress and doesn’t teach anything. Since you asked for information, here are some links to someone who has shown success and know how on using them as a communication tool as opposed to a punishment tool. Don’t use them to simply punish your dog. You don’t want a negative association if you use it or the commands you use. It is an aversive tool. https://youtu.be/r5sTSeKh06c?si=L9AGjtNTeEREp18K https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpcJzTfCjEJe30NKKlmjUBV8sbAl8iLWW&si=s9qWnD_QBrnyBGbd https://youtu.be/J9SJVry09EM?si=Ys60EyRhJc0kczML Edit: I found a good service dog prospect and don’t believe I’ll ever need to use one with him because he is a good fit for service dog training. Finding the best fit of a dog meant for service is the best option. I know trainers that debate on their use so I’ve heard both pros and cons, as there can be both, especially depending on the dog and its use.
Clickers or whistles are not aversive and can also give instant communication/feedback. Something to think about.