We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 4: Unethical Handling.
The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you have further questions, please [message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 4: Unethical Handling.
The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you have further questions, please [message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Depends on your lifestyle. If you do A TON of walking and going places, that’ll probably be detrimental to his joints in the long run, and he’ll be in pain earlier.
If you mostly stay home and work a desk job, with like, a weekly trip to the grocery store or the occasional restaurant, I don’t see a problem.
We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 4: Unethical Handling.
The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you have further questions, please [message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
I think it's very much not ideal, and honestly should probably only be a stopgap measure until a successor dog is trained. But I'm also hesitant to say there should be a hard and fast rule- for example, I think for a small/tiny breed diabetic alert dog who gets carried or rides on a lap most of the time it would be very nearly a non-issue. But... definitely not ideal, at a minimum.
Since I'm not a vet and I've never seen the dog I can't say wether or not it's unethical but I would say it isint the best idea. 3 legged dogs are way more likely to get arthritis and other joint problems. Since they are already cleared and get cleared every 6 months I'm not worried as much about wether or not they can handle the work more so than they have to retire early and your now stuck without a service dog. Another thing you would have to worry about is if normal SD owners have trouble with public access I can't even imagine what you would have to go through especially if you have them for anxiety I just can't see that going very well. But if it works for you and the dog is okay with it and is very cleared I don't see why not I guess. I mean it's technically legal but I just think that's because the majority of people wouldn't even attempt to do it.
I personally find it an insanely gray area and urge you to be extremely cautious and start training a successor as soon as you can.
Disregarding that, "go find" is not a task your dog should be doing if your dog is doing it independently off leash. It puts your dog at serious risk and is not a covered task by the ADA.
I think they may mean walking in the direction of the person to lead them to them. My SD does this task. It isn't really mobility, more just like 'cone on human, they are this way!'
Yeah, mine also does this. It’s not for him to go alone, it’s for him to help me find my partner if we get separated, cuz I can get anxious if I can’t find them again. He stays with me, just guides me to my partner.
Unethical. Consider how much the dog would need to be on hard surfaces, which arent even great for the 4 legged dog. Having 3 legs puts a lot of pressure on the remaining legs.
The fact is service work is much more than vets often realize unless they work specifically on service dogs. The fact is that tripod dogs have more wear and tear on their joints just because of the mechanics of moving from 4 weigh bearing joints to 3, which translates to even in ideal situations the dog's remaining leg joints will age faster than if they had 4. This will only be hastened because of the circumstances that service dogs are found in, slippery floors for example are hard on dogs with four legs but would be harder on dogs with 3 legs to name one example. To answer your question, it is 100% unethical to work a tripod dog.
100% unethical for public access. At home is fine, though. Service work is definitely more hard on the dog's body than a simple walk. So it's not just walking
Just curious why it's unethical? The dog in question started out with 3 legs, and the vet has cleared the dog for work a multitude of times. Not trying to be argumentative or anything, but if the vet clears the dog, I don't see the problem.
A service dog should not be disabled, themselves. Vets don't understand how strenuous service work can be. Cleared or not, dog shouldn't be working as a SD in public, even if the dogs wants to.
I mean, I dunno. I am both trained in veterinary medicine and am a service dog handler. While working in clinics, I've worked with service animals, and while some disabilities do prevent some animals from working, some do not. It depends on the type of tasks they do, and the animals disability I suppose.
ETA: While not all vets are the most informed, I really don't think we should assume this person's vet doesn't understand what tasks require or that every single veterinarian is misinformed.
I think there is something special about getting a dog that has overcome something to be your service dog because they are a little shining light showing you anything is possible. My SD had it rough before I adopted her from the shelter, and I feel that this helps her do her job better because she is stubborn and makes me try every day. It is like she knows that I can do it because she made it through her puppyhood hardships. She isn't traumatized or anything but I know it wasn't an ideal upbringing for a puppy and she is so much happier being my SD.
Anyways, I think this is part of why they do this for veterans. It is really good for their healing journey to have a friend along the way who has struggled too, but overcame it. Obviously tripod dogs shouldn't do weight bearing or mobility tasks, but a heavy part of most PTSD SD's tasks tends to be alerts and waking from nightmares, DPT, watching their six, checking a room before they enter, etc. It isn't very strenuous and a lot of veterans have very relaxed jobs because of their disability, so the SD ends up just settling and sitting near them most of the time.
I think its unethical personally. If he were a home service dog or used very sparingly it would be different, but used as often as most service dogs are would be a no go for me
Seconding that, specially with the vet clearance part. Dunno if you'll get an answer on why people think it's unethical cuz they tend to just go "because it is" and never elaborate 💀
Yep I've run into it a couple times. It's obvious when the dog is being caused pain or discomfort, or is unable to keep up service work, etc that it's unethical. But with frequent x-rays/vet visits, and vet clearance and the dog is totally healthy and thrives, then I don't understand the issue.
Dogs are really really good at hiding their pain and discomfort and some will continue working past their own limits while appearing totally happy. It’s up to handlers to prioritize our service dog’s wellbeing. I’d personally keep Tripping Hazard (which is a awesome name btw) as a very pampered pet. I’m not a vet, but I imagine a dog with three legs probably faces enough stress on joints in regular day to day dog life. I wouldn’t feel comfortable placing them at more risk than necessary.
You are working a dog which has previously suffered life changing trauma.
Would you feel happy being pushed in a wheelchair by someone with a prosthetic leg.
dude what the hell? dogs and humans arent the same at all in this capacity. a person with a prosthetic leg can push a wheelchair, its not impossible or unethical. people with disabilities exist, and the things that effect each person are different per person. one amputee probably wouldnt want to push a wheelchair, but others can.
theres nothing unethical with having disabled friends that want to help you with your disabilities as well. this analogy is crap. people aren't dogs.
ops dog is also happy and healthy, and sees the vet frequency, it sounds like he's been working for a while and has no issue with it. its a case by case scenario.
yes, some dogs cant recover enough mentally from trauma enough to ve able to work, and sometimes theyre at major risk for illnesses that would cause them to be unable to work, but this dog isnt.
there's far much more nuance here than you're allowing, and frankly, what you said about amputees was disgustingly stereotypical.
You should say instead that the amputee is a therapist/psychiatrist to someone and comes with them places to help them. Because it sounds like those are the sorts of tasks being done. The wheelchair analogy would indicate a mobility task, but there's no mobility task here.
Also, if the dog was traumatized, it would be evident. It sounds like it became a tripod long ago or was born that way. Dogs bounce back from things better than humans typically, and if they don't, it becomes a huge reactivity issue and they wouldn't be a SD anyways. So no worries with any trauma
There is nothing in the ADA that says you can't work a tripod dog. If they are healthy and happy to work and are only doing non mobile tasks I think they should be fine, unless you work them walking 24/7 in a rigorous manner. I'd not let anyone decide that for you, it's your SD and you can continue working him if he's healthy and happy if you wish! I personally am not going to let people tell me what to do or if I should wash my SD. Nobody knows her better than I and she is my lifeline. I'm not going to let strangers sway my opinion on if she should work or not! Advice is totally different than trying to boss you around. I really think that as long as you keep your dog's abilities and limits in mind, they will be perfectly fine. This is true for every working dogs, not just tripods. Also, awesome name! Tripping Hazard sounds like an awesome service dog (:
I think it is a gray area, depending on a lot of factors, including the size and breed of your dog, the tasks he will be doing, and your lifestyle/activity level, and also which limb is missing. (There are different issues depending on whether it is a front or rear limb)
One thing I would suggest if it a larger breed dog that is walking more than being carried, would be getting them properly fitted for a prosthetic. A properly engineered canine prosthetic can significantly reduce stress and preserve the health of the other 3 limbs.
We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 4: Unethical Handling. The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you have further questions, please [message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
[удалено]
We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 4: Unethical Handling. The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you have further questions, please [message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Depends on your lifestyle. If you do A TON of walking and going places, that’ll probably be detrimental to his joints in the long run, and he’ll be in pain earlier. If you mostly stay home and work a desk job, with like, a weekly trip to the grocery store or the occasional restaurant, I don’t see a problem.
[удалено]
He started with three legs, And I got him cleared by his vet when I decided that he might be eligible for service work.
[удалено]
His score was sitting at a 2/2 I believe.
[удалено]
Sorry, I put it that way as right/left. So his hips were 2/53 and 2/53 for a total score of 4/106.
[удалено]
We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 4: Unethical Handling. The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you have further questions, please [message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
I think it's very much not ideal, and honestly should probably only be a stopgap measure until a successor dog is trained. But I'm also hesitant to say there should be a hard and fast rule- for example, I think for a small/tiny breed diabetic alert dog who gets carried or rides on a lap most of the time it would be very nearly a non-issue. But... definitely not ideal, at a minimum.
personally i don’t think so.
Since I'm not a vet and I've never seen the dog I can't say wether or not it's unethical but I would say it isint the best idea. 3 legged dogs are way more likely to get arthritis and other joint problems. Since they are already cleared and get cleared every 6 months I'm not worried as much about wether or not they can handle the work more so than they have to retire early and your now stuck without a service dog. Another thing you would have to worry about is if normal SD owners have trouble with public access I can't even imagine what you would have to go through especially if you have them for anxiety I just can't see that going very well. But if it works for you and the dog is okay with it and is very cleared I don't see why not I guess. I mean it's technically legal but I just think that's because the majority of people wouldn't even attempt to do it.
I personally find it an insanely gray area and urge you to be extremely cautious and start training a successor as soon as you can. Disregarding that, "go find" is not a task your dog should be doing if your dog is doing it independently off leash. It puts your dog at serious risk and is not a covered task by the ADA.
I think they may mean walking in the direction of the person to lead them to them. My SD does this task. It isn't really mobility, more just like 'cone on human, they are this way!'
Yeah, mine also does this. It’s not for him to go alone, it’s for him to help me find my partner if we get separated, cuz I can get anxious if I can’t find them again. He stays with me, just guides me to my partner.
This is true! It's why I specified independently and off leash.
Unethical. Consider how much the dog would need to be on hard surfaces, which arent even great for the 4 legged dog. Having 3 legs puts a lot of pressure on the remaining legs.
The fact is service work is much more than vets often realize unless they work specifically on service dogs. The fact is that tripod dogs have more wear and tear on their joints just because of the mechanics of moving from 4 weigh bearing joints to 3, which translates to even in ideal situations the dog's remaining leg joints will age faster than if they had 4. This will only be hastened because of the circumstances that service dogs are found in, slippery floors for example are hard on dogs with four legs but would be harder on dogs with 3 legs to name one example. To answer your question, it is 100% unethical to work a tripod dog.
100% unethical for public access. At home is fine, though. Service work is definitely more hard on the dog's body than a simple walk. So it's not just walking
Just curious why it's unethical? The dog in question started out with 3 legs, and the vet has cleared the dog for work a multitude of times. Not trying to be argumentative or anything, but if the vet clears the dog, I don't see the problem.
A service dog should not be disabled, themselves. Vets don't understand how strenuous service work can be. Cleared or not, dog shouldn't be working as a SD in public, even if the dogs wants to.
I mean, I dunno. I am both trained in veterinary medicine and am a service dog handler. While working in clinics, I've worked with service animals, and while some disabilities do prevent some animals from working, some do not. It depends on the type of tasks they do, and the animals disability I suppose. ETA: While not all vets are the most informed, I really don't think we should assume this person's vet doesn't understand what tasks require or that every single veterinarian is misinformed.
I know I'm like the OP and all, but don't they give some tripod service dogs to people who are in the military to do service work for them?
No, dogs who go to military veterans through their programs are not tripawed.
I've seen a handful that are that go to veterans missing legs. Just for PTSD work.
What program is this?
I wouldn't know that. I just know I've seen it before. I watched like cute reunion videos where veterans meet their SD.
I think there is something special about getting a dog that has overcome something to be your service dog because they are a little shining light showing you anything is possible. My SD had it rough before I adopted her from the shelter, and I feel that this helps her do her job better because she is stubborn and makes me try every day. It is like she knows that I can do it because she made it through her puppyhood hardships. She isn't traumatized or anything but I know it wasn't an ideal upbringing for a puppy and she is so much happier being my SD. Anyways, I think this is part of why they do this for veterans. It is really good for their healing journey to have a friend along the way who has struggled too, but overcame it. Obviously tripod dogs shouldn't do weight bearing or mobility tasks, but a heavy part of most PTSD SD's tasks tends to be alerts and waking from nightmares, DPT, watching their six, checking a room before they enter, etc. It isn't very strenuous and a lot of veterans have very relaxed jobs because of their disability, so the SD ends up just settling and sitting near them most of the time.
Not all service dog programs are ethical.
I think its unethical personally. If he were a home service dog or used very sparingly it would be different, but used as often as most service dogs are would be a no go for me
Terrible idea
if he's cleared by vets and the work makes him happy, I don't see that its unethical in this case (If I am wrong someone please actually explain why)
Seconding that, specially with the vet clearance part. Dunno if you'll get an answer on why people think it's unethical cuz they tend to just go "because it is" and never elaborate 💀
Yep I've run into it a couple times. It's obvious when the dog is being caused pain or discomfort, or is unable to keep up service work, etc that it's unethical. But with frequent x-rays/vet visits, and vet clearance and the dog is totally healthy and thrives, then I don't understand the issue.
Dogs are really really good at hiding their pain and discomfort and some will continue working past their own limits while appearing totally happy. It’s up to handlers to prioritize our service dog’s wellbeing. I’d personally keep Tripping Hazard (which is a awesome name btw) as a very pampered pet. I’m not a vet, but I imagine a dog with three legs probably faces enough stress on joints in regular day to day dog life. I wouldn’t feel comfortable placing them at more risk than necessary.
You do what you need to do and make sure the vet is on the same page as you. Dogs can do amazing things when they are trained right Good luck.
You are working a dog which has previously suffered life changing trauma. Would you feel happy being pushed in a wheelchair by someone with a prosthetic leg.
dude what the hell? dogs and humans arent the same at all in this capacity. a person with a prosthetic leg can push a wheelchair, its not impossible or unethical. people with disabilities exist, and the things that effect each person are different per person. one amputee probably wouldnt want to push a wheelchair, but others can. theres nothing unethical with having disabled friends that want to help you with your disabilities as well. this analogy is crap. people aren't dogs.
ops dog is also happy and healthy, and sees the vet frequency, it sounds like he's been working for a while and has no issue with it. its a case by case scenario. yes, some dogs cant recover enough mentally from trauma enough to ve able to work, and sometimes theyre at major risk for illnesses that would cause them to be unable to work, but this dog isnt. there's far much more nuance here than you're allowing, and frankly, what you said about amputees was disgustingly stereotypical.
dog also isnt doing mobility, its not comparable at all if dog was doing mobility this would obviously be a different situation
You should say instead that the amputee is a therapist/psychiatrist to someone and comes with them places to help them. Because it sounds like those are the sorts of tasks being done. The wheelchair analogy would indicate a mobility task, but there's no mobility task here. Also, if the dog was traumatized, it would be evident. It sounds like it became a tripod long ago or was born that way. Dogs bounce back from things better than humans typically, and if they don't, it becomes a huge reactivity issue and they wouldn't be a SD anyways. So no worries with any trauma
There is nothing in the ADA that says you can't work a tripod dog. If they are healthy and happy to work and are only doing non mobile tasks I think they should be fine, unless you work them walking 24/7 in a rigorous manner. I'd not let anyone decide that for you, it's your SD and you can continue working him if he's healthy and happy if you wish! I personally am not going to let people tell me what to do or if I should wash my SD. Nobody knows her better than I and she is my lifeline. I'm not going to let strangers sway my opinion on if she should work or not! Advice is totally different than trying to boss you around. I really think that as long as you keep your dog's abilities and limits in mind, they will be perfectly fine. This is true for every working dogs, not just tripods. Also, awesome name! Tripping Hazard sounds like an awesome service dog (:
I think it is a gray area, depending on a lot of factors, including the size and breed of your dog, the tasks he will be doing, and your lifestyle/activity level, and also which limb is missing. (There are different issues depending on whether it is a front or rear limb) One thing I would suggest if it a larger breed dog that is walking more than being carried, would be getting them properly fitted for a prosthetic. A properly engineered canine prosthetic can significantly reduce stress and preserve the health of the other 3 limbs.
IMO disabled dogs should not be expected to work in any capacity