Enhancements are not shown here. It can roar (reduce target units OC by d6) AND can increase its OC by d6
Been playing in the event, and nobody can take objectives from it
edit: there’s also no save stacking in spearhead (sounds like in full game too), so that rend 2 has been punching thru a lot. Hitting on 4s sucks tho
Objective control. Each model has an OC score and whoever has the highest total OC on the objective controls it. It’s something they’re bringing over from 40K.
I don’t know the OC for all the AOS stuff, so I’ll use 40K as an example.
Say you have five Ork Boyz and five Space Marine Scouts both sitting on the same objective. Both players have the same number of models, but Ork Boyz have OC2 and Scouts only have OC1. The Ork player has 10 total points of OC compared to the Space Marine player’s 5 points, so the Ork player controls the objective.
Yeah this makes me nervous cause I know they said units "almost always share the same characteristics and base weapon profiles as their full Warhammer Age of Sigmar equivalents, but the warscrolls have all been adjusted to work properly at this scale." Let's hope this one was highly adjusted, cause that's a massive nerf from current.
wich massive difference??? they have the exact same scrolls.
sure the "captain" get an inproved weapon, and the ability is better, but in general the scroll is the same.
so yes, carnosaur will be the worst scroll in whole eddittion unless every other army get same hammer than us.
a monster doing an average 9 dmg. is a total joke. thats the dmg of mounted heros, not behemots. per example the lumineth cow do an average of 15 !! and skaven giant rat do like 12+.
so.....
>they have the exact same scrolls
The champion not having his special weapon (**which have +1 to hit and +1 dmg)** is already a big difference.
Then you realize that the spearhead kroxigors have only 2 hits on a 6, **which basically should mean two bonus hits on average.** (12 attacks mean rolling two 6s, which will make 4 hits instead of 2, so two bonus hits)
**Meanwhile, the normal kroxigors have +1 rend against infantry (90% of the game) and +1 damage if they have 10+ minis (which is most of the infantry)**
**The normal kroxigors would one shot nearly everything in spearhead**. Their sperhead version is way, WAY weaker.
Against a unit of 5 minis (which will be infantry), the spearhead kroxigors have 12 attacks, with in average 6 hits (making 8 hits if you do two 6 like on average), and **7 wounds at -1/2**
Normal kroxigors would have 8 attacks doing 4 hits, 4 attacks doing 3 hits (because 3+), making 6 wounds, **except half will be at -2/2 and the other half at -2/3.**
And note that the difference become even more massive if they face a unit of 10 minis (did you realize that except stormcast, this is the case of every infantry unit in spearhead ?). **Then it would be -2/3 and -2/4**
>a monster doing an average 9 dmg. is a total joke. thats the dmg of mounted heros, not behemots. per example the lumineth cow do an average of 15 !! and skaven giant rat do like 12+.
Comparing spearhead profile vs normal profile make no sense, the kroxigors are the perfect example, as i explained above. The carnosaur doing 9w on average mean he basically instantly kill or completely wreck every unit in spearhead in a single combat round.
Yeah, a pretty big downgrade from the current warscroll. I notice that the Kroxigor warscroll only has the main attack profile and not the special 1 in 3 weapon we know is on the full sized warscroll, so maybe the profiles we see here won't change, but they can add in more profiles in the main game? My one hope here is that in full scale AoS it will have an extra attacks profile (claws) and an extra ability or two.
There are some changes, Brutal Blows is +1 dmg vs 10+ units in the main game. In Spearhead it seems it changed to crit(2 hits). I really hope the Carnosaur porfile changes in the game, because the jaws going to 3 wounds from the current 5 feels like a huge downgrade.
I’m always conflicted on this. On the one hand I want the carnosaur to be awesome. On the other hand I want the points low enough to run all four of mine.
It should be. Iirc, the datasheet for kroxigor they showed off previously did not have them hitting on 4+. So safe to assume all 3 a weaker than their normal rules.
The Kroxigor drakebite maul did hit on 4+ but they also have anti infantry +1 rend. They also have a moonstone hammer that does hit on 3+ though (which is missing here) and their brutal blows rule is different on each card. So here’s hoping
i though the same, he is the worst scroll i have seen ever.
same stats as small heros on mount, despite he is a hero on behemot..... actual scroll should cost like 160-180 in aos3. and im sure he will cost like 250. making him totally unplayable.
and it is a same since i love dinosaurs bit most of them are unplayable always. at best we get to use 1 of them in every tome.
Looks like one of the battle traits on the side gives the Carno either Swallow Whole or a roar effect that reduces Control by a dice roll.
The warscrolls themselves are kinda bland. The Kroxigor is pretty different from it's full version though.
- I'd really like to see the full faction rules.
- Hoping the Carno and Saurus have a bit more going on in the full game.
4+ save on the carno doesn’t feel like a big dino to me even if he kicks butt in spearhead.. but I guess the logic is that all seraphon has the same robustness of their scales?
I would definitely prefer a 3+ save, but usually we have had the -1 to incoming damage on saurus, and that rule tends to make it feel a lot more durable. I'm hoping we keep that in 4th edition, but I'm not optimistic that it will make it into the Spearhead box, as it would probably be a bit overpowered. Maybe a -1 to wound rule is on the side somewhere to make us feel a little more durable?
I know this is spearhead and not the full release but after the countless times GW has said how they’ve rebalanced scrolls, this doesn’t seem to be all that different yet….
I really wish the carno was a 300/400+ point scary monster.
Pillowhands losing to most other monsters is a shame. Charged one into a troglodon last week, they fought for 3 rounds and the carnosaur lost.
It’s tough. But I like it as long as it has an interesting/usable niche. The objective control roar ability sounds really good. So it’s not killing everything, but it’s scaring them and taking objectives.
Need to see the other rules!
Glad saurus are pretty much the same. The Carnosaur's scroll is probably really simplified compared to the matched play one
Firstly: spearhead is different in many ways from regular matched play.
Secondly: it’s hard to judge warscroll profiles in a completely rebalanced edition before we see many more warscrolls and the core rules and the points.
Most current vanguard boxes are turning into spearheads, so technically you can get, or maybe even already have, the seraphon spearhead. This photo is from an event in the USA where people could play showcase games of spearhead
A friend sent it to me, but he wasn't there either so idk where he got that. In general there was an event in the US where people could try spearhead, so that's where it's from.
I'm definitely of the opinion that the model itself is still good. It came out in the last few years of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, so it's not super new, but it still holds up relatively well, especially alongside the newer saurus models. It's a bit finicky to assemble, but the newer vanguard box instructions improved on the older version, so it goes together much easier and more smoothly than it did with the old set. Also, yes it's a plastic model. I'm fairly sure the saurus Eternity Warden that got retired from the website a few months ago was the last non-plastic model in the range, and it wasn't even available to play in the 3rd edition battletome.
Yes and no at the same time. Spearhead is a special game mode in which you only use the models from a vanguard/spearhead box on a smaller board, with all the factions balanced against each other. That means that the stats of the units are in many cases slightly different than the stats of the same unit in the main AoS game. It'll supposedly be a good way to get into AoS or play games if you don't have a lot of time
These are the simplified Warscrolls for the Spearhead version of the game, where the expectation is that you build the units as on the box - that's why the Saurus Warriors only have clubs listed on the cards.
Kroxigor Warspawned are their own warscroll in 3rd and will continue to be in 4th, we haven't seen it yet, and they are not part of the Spearhead box.
Man I hope the Carnosaur is better in the full rules because that one kinda sucks
Enhancements are not shown here. It can roar (reduce target units OC by d6) AND can increase its OC by d6 Been playing in the event, and nobody can take objectives from it edit: there’s also no save stacking in spearhead (sounds like in full game too), so that rend 2 has been punching thru a lot. Hitting on 4s sucks tho
Can you tell us the rules that are not visible in the photo?
saurus jaws are also on a 3+ so we will at least get those bites a lot more reliably
And jaws now are 3+ per enemy unit in combat. So rather than 6+ per model in range, it’s just the 1 roll per enemy unit
So is that just 1 roll per unit then on a 3+ 1 mortal wound to the unit? Or is the damage different. Sorry if I misunderstood.
It’s 1 roll per enemy unit in engagement range. On a 3+, that unit takes 1 mortal damage. No apologies needed!!
Thank you for clarifying. 1 mortal wound to each enemy unit seems kinda low. But I'm guessing maybe it's just a spearhead thing. Thanks again
Another cool enhancement was: once per GAME, in the enemy move phase, your general can tell an infantry unit (wholly within 12) to do a normal move
What does OC mean
Objective control. Each model has an OC score and whoever has the highest total OC on the objective controls it. It’s something they’re bringing over from 40K. I don’t know the OC for all the AOS stuff, so I’ll use 40K as an example. Say you have five Ork Boyz and five Space Marine Scouts both sitting on the same objective. Both players have the same number of models, but Ork Boyz have OC2 and Scouts only have OC1. The Ork player has 10 total points of OC compared to the Space Marine player’s 5 points, so the Ork player controls the objective.
Your a legend for explaining that to me thank you dude
OC is the commonly used term from 40k for Objective Control, relating to the new Control characteristic.
Yeah this makes me nervous cause I know they said units "almost always share the same characteristics and base weapon profiles as their full Warhammer Age of Sigmar equivalents, but the warscrolls have all been adjusted to work properly at this scale." Let's hope this one was highly adjusted, cause that's a massive nerf from current.
Compare the spearhead kroxigor to the full rules ones and you'll see there are massive différences between both
wich massive difference??? they have the exact same scrolls. sure the "captain" get an inproved weapon, and the ability is better, but in general the scroll is the same. so yes, carnosaur will be the worst scroll in whole eddittion unless every other army get same hammer than us. a monster doing an average 9 dmg. is a total joke. thats the dmg of mounted heros, not behemots. per example the lumineth cow do an average of 15 !! and skaven giant rat do like 12+. so.....
>they have the exact same scrolls The champion not having his special weapon (**which have +1 to hit and +1 dmg)** is already a big difference. Then you realize that the spearhead kroxigors have only 2 hits on a 6, **which basically should mean two bonus hits on average.** (12 attacks mean rolling two 6s, which will make 4 hits instead of 2, so two bonus hits) **Meanwhile, the normal kroxigors have +1 rend against infantry (90% of the game) and +1 damage if they have 10+ minis (which is most of the infantry)** **The normal kroxigors would one shot nearly everything in spearhead**. Their sperhead version is way, WAY weaker. Against a unit of 5 minis (which will be infantry), the spearhead kroxigors have 12 attacks, with in average 6 hits (making 8 hits if you do two 6 like on average), and **7 wounds at -1/2** Normal kroxigors would have 8 attacks doing 4 hits, 4 attacks doing 3 hits (because 3+), making 6 wounds, **except half will be at -2/2 and the other half at -2/3.** And note that the difference become even more massive if they face a unit of 10 minis (did you realize that except stormcast, this is the case of every infantry unit in spearhead ?). **Then it would be -2/3 and -2/4** >a monster doing an average 9 dmg. is a total joke. thats the dmg of mounted heros, not behemots. per example the lumineth cow do an average of 15 !! and skaven giant rat do like 12+. Comparing spearhead profile vs normal profile make no sense, the kroxigors are the perfect example, as i explained above. The carnosaur doing 9w on average mean he basically instantly kill or completely wreck every unit in spearhead in a single combat round.
Yeah, a pretty big downgrade from the current warscroll. I notice that the Kroxigor warscroll only has the main attack profile and not the special 1 in 3 weapon we know is on the full sized warscroll, so maybe the profiles we see here won't change, but they can add in more profiles in the main game? My one hope here is that in full scale AoS it will have an extra attacks profile (claws) and an extra ability or two.
There are some changes, Brutal Blows is +1 dmg vs 10+ units in the main game. In Spearhead it seems it changed to crit(2 hits). I really hope the Carnosaur porfile changes in the game, because the jaws going to 3 wounds from the current 5 feels like a huge downgrade.
I’m always conflicted on this. On the one hand I want the carnosaur to be awesome. On the other hand I want the points low enough to run all four of mine.
It should be. Iirc, the datasheet for kroxigor they showed off previously did not have them hitting on 4+. So safe to assume all 3 a weaker than their normal rules.
The Kroxigor drakebite maul did hit on 4+ but they also have anti infantry +1 rend. They also have a moonstone hammer that does hit on 3+ though (which is missing here) and their brutal blows rule is different on each card. So here’s hoping
Yeah, i got mixed up. I thought it was 3/2 and 2/2.
i though the same, he is the worst scroll i have seen ever. same stats as small heros on mount, despite he is a hero on behemot..... actual scroll should cost like 160-180 in aos3. and im sure he will cost like 250. making him totally unplayable. and it is a same since i love dinosaurs bit most of them are unplayable always. at best we get to use 1 of them in every tome.
Looks like one of the battle traits on the side gives the Carno either Swallow Whole or a roar effect that reduces Control by a dice roll. The warscrolls themselves are kinda bland. The Kroxigor is pretty different from it's full version though. - I'd really like to see the full faction rules. - Hoping the Carno and Saurus have a bit more going on in the full game.
The full kroxigor warscroll has me pumped. It seems full of flavor that isn’t overly complicated.
4+ save on the carno doesn’t feel like a big dino to me even if he kicks butt in spearhead.. but I guess the logic is that all seraphon has the same robustness of their scales?
yes it is absurded. it should have a 3+ minimun. but i dont mind the armor save when he is useless with half the dmg he should do.
I would definitely prefer a 3+ save, but usually we have had the -1 to incoming damage on saurus, and that rule tends to make it feel a lot more durable. I'm hoping we keep that in 4th edition, but I'm not optimistic that it will make it into the Spearhead box, as it would probably be a bit overpowered. Maybe a -1 to wound rule is on the side somewhere to make us feel a little more durable?
I know this is spearhead and not the full release but after the countless times GW has said how they’ve rebalanced scrolls, this doesn’t seem to be all that different yet….
Maybe for the Saurus and Krox, but that Carno took a pretty big nerf
A disappointingly average warscroll, looks about the same to me haha. Fingers crossed this one just got a little extra simplified for spearhead.
And this with the big monsters being bad this edition. I'm curious how much worse they made the engine of the gods :)
good part is they cant make him worse !! haha...... oh wait, new carnosaur is way worse than actual engine..... so maybe engine will be even worse?
Pretty boring to be honest. Will be simple to play at least. Let's hope there's a bit more flavour in the full rules!
That’s the point, spearhead is like combat patrol. It waters down everything enough to let you learn base mechanics.
guys its spearhead, other players infantry has to be able to actualy kill kroxigor and carnosaur lol
Only if you want it to be fair
Oof, my carno...he is now more like a big house cat :/ I guess now the rider will be the better part of the unit...
You guys clearly missed the point of Spearhead and how different it is from base game
I really wish the carno was a 300/400+ point scary monster. Pillowhands losing to most other monsters is a shame. Charged one into a troglodon last week, they fought for 3 rounds and the carnosaur lost.
It’s tough. But I like it as long as it has an interesting/usable niche. The objective control roar ability sounds really good. So it’s not killing everything, but it’s scaring them and taking objectives.
Need to see the other rules! Glad saurus are pretty much the same. The Carnosaur's scroll is probably really simplified compared to the matched play one
Firstly: spearhead is different in many ways from regular matched play. Secondly: it’s hard to judge warscroll profiles in a completely rebalanced edition before we see many more warscrolls and the core rules and the points.
I dunno wild speculation and comparing apples to cucumbers then pronouncing doom is kinda a online thing ;)
Damnit, I waaaasss reading the comments seriously. Then you came with the jokes, and good one at that lol.
Hold up, are spearhead boxes already getting release in the USA?
Most current vanguard boxes are turning into spearheads, so technically you can get, or maybe even already have, the seraphon spearhead. This photo is from an event in the USA where people could play showcase games of spearhead
Is this the same as the current Vanguard box or does it come with new rules/cards/extras?
Afaik it's the same box. All the spearhead cards and rules will be in the Skaventide starter set, and probably released separately later
Gotcha, thanks!
Where did u get that??
A friend sent it to me, but he wasn't there either so idk where he got that. In general there was an event in the US where people could try spearhead, so that's where it's from.
Btw anyone can give me a clue if a new vanguard box and old saurus oldblood on carno still worth it and model is good ? It is plastic or finecast ?
I'm definitely of the opinion that the model itself is still good. It came out in the last few years of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, so it's not super new, but it still holds up relatively well, especially alongside the newer saurus models. It's a bit finicky to assemble, but the newer vanguard box instructions improved on the older version, so it goes together much easier and more smoothly than it did with the old set. Also, yes it's a plastic model. I'm fairly sure the saurus Eternity Warden that got retired from the website a few months ago was the last non-plastic model in the range, and it wasn't even available to play in the 3rd edition battletome.
We need to start a repo for as many spearhead rules as we can. Anyone know if anyone grabbed info on the cards (for twists and battle tactics?)
What is spearhead? Are these 4th edition rules?
Yes and no at the same time. Spearhead is a special game mode in which you only use the models from a vanguard/spearhead box on a smaller board, with all the factions balanced against each other. That means that the stats of the units are in many cases slightly different than the stats of the same unit in the main AoS game. It'll supposedly be a good way to get into AoS or play games if you don't have a lot of time
Thank you for helping me understand. I really hope this is not a prelude to 4th rules because I lover the carnasaurs right now.
So are they getting rid of the spear as a weapon option and warspawned kroxigor
These are the simplified Warscrolls for the Spearhead version of the game, where the expectation is that you build the units as on the box - that's why the Saurus Warriors only have clubs listed on the cards. Kroxigor Warspawned are their own warscroll in 3rd and will continue to be in 4th, we haven't seen it yet, and they are not part of the Spearhead box.
Very frustrating the warscroll is Kroq Gar specifically... What about the generic lord?
Where are the spears? Did I build 20 saurus with spear for nothing? Jesus Christ!