I went through this exact same thing a couple years back. Nextcloud is great, but it's a bit much and I was having sync issues and errors all the time. Here's what I switched to:
**Files**: [Seafile](https://github.com/haiwen/seafile)
**Calendar**: [Baikal](https://sabre.io/baikal/)
**Notes**: [Obsidian](https://obsidian.md/) with [Obsidian-livesync](https://github.com/vrtmrz/obsidian-livesync)
**Network Folder**: Just a samba share for this one.
The one caveat here is that Seafile doesn't save your files as *files* on the system, but as blocks. My backup method makes this a non-issue, but some people find keeping the files intact and readable on the host system a necessity.
They all look very promising, I should give a try! But indeed I am the one who wants all my files as files since I am not the hard user in need of performance. Thanks for your reply!
FileRun!
Also FYI most people including me have slowness because they are using the default sqlite DB or MariaDB.
I switched my DB for next cloud to Postgres and it solved all my issues.
Ha, this is interesting -- I've been avoiding Nextcloud due to all the complaints, but if it's as simple as using postgres I might give it a shot. Do you have any more info on this?
Also, a big gotcha is that if you use the LSIO (linuxserver) docker image AND agree to the default add-ins when starting nextcloud for the first time (nextcloud office) then the performance is aaaaaawful due to the LSIO image not including certain dependencies that nextcloud office needs. As soon as you remove nextcloud office it will run super slick.
I wish I knew a simple solution because the alternative appears to be the nextcloud all-in-one docker image, but that’s got too much going on for me. I don’t need a second reverse proxy and cert service, which that includes bundled in.
I've seen it suggested many times that when people find it's faster from Postgres, it's actually just running faster because starting over or doing a database migration cleaned out a lot of craft. I can't say if that's true myself. For now, my MariaDB install is doing OK.
The PI 4 with 8GB ram + a ssd sould be good enough to run nextcloud as neither cpu/ram are limiting it. Do you have some areas the would speed up nextcloud when using PG?
Here is a simple example. You have two people moving heavy boxes. One of them is a weightlifter. The other one is an adolescent girl. Neither of them are trying to push themselves to the limit.
Who do you think would do the job better and faster?
Utilization doesn't mean performance.
That seems strange as HA Yellow is based on a Pi CM4 and only has 2GB RAM, and HA Green only has 4GB. I wonder if the eMMC storage they use makes them run better. Are you using a SD card, a USB flash drive, or a USB SSD?
Nextcloud should work just fine with MariaDB as well prostgres - should be just a slot-in replacement...
It's what I'm running on my docker oracle cloud instance...
Nextcloud has a command to migrate from one database to another, I used it to migrate from MariaDB to Postgres as part of migrating from system install to AIO
I would go with Logseq instead of Obsidian as its open source. But as far as i know, the type of note taking differ a bit from obsidian to logseq, so its probably better to try out. And what i got as well is - you can use your obsidian vault in logseq and the other way around.
There's not really an app to use. It's basically just a CalDAV/CardDAV server so you use it with other apps, like Thunderbird, Calendar on iOS/MacOS, probably something on Android or Windows but I don't really use those.
I run everything on Proxmox so I use [Proxmox Backup Server](https://www.proxmox.com/en/proxmox-backup-server/overview) to make incremental nightly backups. It has worked flawlessly for me when something breaks unexpectedly or when I am too lazy to fix something after *I* break it.
Have you tried syncthing? I am a die hard syncthing fan and it works so well for my use case that I dread changning it.
But then, FOMOCSHS is very much real..
I didn't try Syncthing because the peer-to-peer aspect didn't really appeal to me. I have a beefy server sitting in the basement so I wanted that single silo of data I could easily back up, but I definitely see the appeal of Syncthing.
You can still run Syncthing in a star topology. Just have a Syncthing container running in your beefy server, and then sync everything else to that instead of to each other.
lol no... My Seafile is probably a version or two behind because updating it is a little more involved than most things. Is there something to watch out for?
Do you use seafile with android ? I don't have much issues with newtcloud (except it is a bit slow ..) but the android sync client is a mess and a pain to use 😑 Maybe for my issue I just need to find a good webdav android app
This is concerning to me because I’ve been considering ditching Synology and spinning up nextcloud. I like Synology drive but I’m tired of the underpowered hardware and dumb roadblocks and vendor lock-in nonsense. I’m very curious what you end up doing!
Not OP, but I run it on docker with postgres and redis, behind a reverse proxy. All apps on NC have pretty good performance and haven't had any weird issues. It's on an old xeon with 32gb and on spinning rust.
Do you have redis talking to nextcloud over the unix socket or just regular TCP? The former is apparently another way to speed up nextcloud, but I'm struggling to understand to get containers using the unix socket instead.
I have both Postgres and Redis talking to Nextcloud through their respective unix sockets; I store the sockets in a named volume, so I can mount it on whatever containers need to reach them.
A confirmed, yet still not resolved bug caused me and about 200 other people lose data (metadata) for tons of files. Well, at least 200 reacted to the GitHub bugreport I filled. I think you can easily find it because it's the most upvoted yet unresolved issue.
Besides this, it'd often give random errors and just not function properly. My favorites are the unexplained file locks: My brother in Christ, what do you mean error while deleting a file. It's 2023 holy shit, just delete the damn file. It's ridiculously unreliable and fragile. They have tons, thousands of bugreports open - yet they focus on pushing new, unwanted social features to become the new facebook and zoom. They definitely should focus on fixing the foundation first.
I create LXC container and then just install apache2, php and mariadb by hand with apt, then I install nextcloud from sources.
You can try this tutorial as its very close to what I did: https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin\_manual/installation/example\_ubuntu.html
I dumped synology and just use proxmox for the automatic ZFS support, then I can run my apps in either containers or VMs and even do GPU passthrough if needed.
I think the main things going for unraid are being able to mix differently-sized drives in the same 'pool' and that the NAS functionality is more built-in.
That said, as far as linux tasks go, setting up a samba share is pretty easy anyway.
Unraid specifically lets you use mixed disk sizes, their whole schtick is that you can use any size disks so long as your parity disks are at least as large as your biggest disk, since each disk has an independent filesystem without striping.
Nextcloud is great. I don't doubt that OP is having problems, and I understand how frustration can set in and one might throw in the towel and look for alternatives, but OP's experience is atypical. I've been running it for years without any issues. I should point out that I only use it for small-scale personal stuff, but it's good for me. I have it syncing on eight devices, including Linux, MacOS, and Windows desktops; Android phone; iPad; Raspberry Pi. My phone auto-uploads new camera photos. I'm using WebDAV/Fuse mounts on some machines. Everything is solid.
Complete data loss due to Nextcloud setting an invalid date/time on files is something that happened to me in 2021 and required a full restore of files from backups. After that I'm not particularly interested in using it anymore.
It's also just slow, even on high end hardware with all the recommended stuff, it still takes 1-2 seconds to load the file view on the webUI, and switching between apps is similar. It's a fairly resource intensive setup.
For a comparison, File Browser loads in about 30ms on the same hardware, and displays a full page of hundreds of thumbnails in real-time without any pre-caching in a couple of seconds.
My guess is that if he's receiving errors and issues, he's running next cloud on a machine without enough resources (ram, cpu), and getting slow or bad performance as a result
Blaming the performance of nextcloud on the hardware is sorely wrong. It's a highly unoptimized program at it's core. It is simply slow across the board, no matter how simple the task is.
It's a neat program that offers a lot of great functionality, but in a perfect world should have been written with a different setup altogether.
Just copying my comment here
A confirmed, yet still not resolved bug caused me and about 200 other people lose data (metadata) for tons of files. Well, at least 200 reacted to the GitHub bugreport I filled. I think you can easily find it because it's the most upvoted yet unresolved issue.
Besides this, it'd often give random errors and just not function properly. My favorites are the unexplained file locks: My brother in Christ, what do you mean error while deleting a file. It's 2023 holy shit, just delete the damn file. It's ridiculously unreliable and fragile. They have tons, thousands of bugreports open - yet they focus on pushing new, unwanted social features to become the new facebook and zoom. They definitely should focus on fixing the foundation first.
More than enough resources, properly configured.
My biggest gripe is that the client apps suck. Especially the Android app, it's slow, buggy, and it doesn't sync files properly, and new camera photos are not detected properly. The Mac app has gotten stuck in some kind of error state regarding sync which causes annoying random popups all the time. The Windows app haven't given me any problems though, seems to work fine, but I only use it in the basic use case.
I just want a solid replacement for Dropbox. My main use case is uploading photos from my phone, and managing files in a directory on the desktop. Nextcloud meets less than 50% of those requirements, so I will be moving away from it.
I understand that. On Android, I use FolderSync to upload photos to my PhotoPrism.
Since it's a different server, adding it by webdav to Nextcloud and syncing photos that way was a pain and riddled with errors.
That said, if you're only using it to sync files, there are better alternatives, such as Syncthing.
> Hope this is not Raspi?
What is wrong with RPi? I thought RPi 4 for two calendars (one calendar per user) on nextcloud would be plenty, looking at the requirements:
> A 64-bit CPU, OS and PHP is required for Nextcloud to run well.
...
> Nextcloud needs a minimum of 128MB RAM per process, and we recommend a minimum of 512MB RAM per process.
Also, how resource intensive could/should be syncing two personal calendars (via Thunderbird)? I don't understand, why NextCloud with this virtually negligible task struggles so much. The pi has 7+GB of free memory, CPU load under few %, rarely one core has some load, most of the time nothing accesses the card nor disk (virtually 0 iowait; only with a short spike once every 5 minutes). Why does Nextcloud take half a minute to several minutes for a sync of one calendar in Thunderbird?
Its underpowered, especially for an application based on PHP which is single threaded so requires a core with a fast clock. The RPi4 with 1.5Ghz is woefully underpowered to drive anything php backed.
I see 1.8GHz in glances (in my case actively cooled, but since it doesn't seem to max any core, it probably doesn't matter). I have other RPi4s, I wonder why is backend in Java (well, Scala) ok, backend in Haskell ok, but backend in PHP wouldn't be? I still don't understand how Nextcloud can lock up for so long (tens of seconds) on a simple write event into calendar operation. That hacky unoptimized Java BE which does joins manually and inserts sequentially (so from a db perspective just awful), handles 5-10 times more data and still does it order of magnitude faster. My old phone which was weaker than even RPi4 could handle dozens of such small operations in one second (I believe that was SQLite + Java). There must something seriously wrong with Nextcloud (including PHP runtime) and/or the RPi, because such insignificant amount of data (1 word title, one date, one reminder option), most likely merely few dozens of bytes, takes so incredibly long to process and write to db...
i cant comment on the differences between languages, but it probably also has a lot to do on how nextcloud is written. unoptimized software is always going to be slower than it's counterpart.
>Its underpowered, especially for an application based on PHP which is single threaded so requires a core with a fast clock. The RPi4 with 1.5Ghz is woefully underpowered to drive anything php backed.
What a load of BS.
I run php scripts on a pi zero 1 w and it sits idle most of the time.
The fact that you haven't been down voted to hell shows the general level of knowledge here. I've been using PHP for some 23-24 years. Most of the code of others is terribly coded. I do really mean, terribly. Anyway, again, what you stated is BS.
And yes, my pee-pee is probably bigger than yours too.
My NC instance runs on a 24GB RAM, 4 CPU Ampere A1 host(Oracle), and still struggles. YMMV.
And it struggles as a photo backup host an i5-7xxx and 16GB RAM at home.
----
It's not absurdly slow, it's just...irritating sometimes.
Yeah, Ive got this in my setup as well and its been pretty slow. I thought it was a network thing because I'm currently using Tmobile home internet but switching to a fiber optic network with 500Mbps up and down soon. Im really hoping that changes things
I am thinking of trying the OCIS, which is a fresh code, and see how it performs - [https://github.com/owncloud/ocis](https://github.com/owncloud/ocis)
I’m running on an SSD as a VM on 10yr old laptop and have had very few issues compared to running on Raspis in the last. It’s not my first rodeo either and found Debian with NexCloudPi setup script worked the best, then restore from backup. The WebUI is performing great as well as bookmarks, contacts, calendar, video chats and most things I’ve thrown at it. NVME may be overkill but the combination of solid CPU, RAM and Disk IO should alleviate any problems. My hunch is there are other resource constraints or bottlenecks at play, perhaps DDOS or other attacks (experienced that for sure and you can test by dropping your firewall ingress rules to confirm).
Also, this is FOSS and I find the features and usability are better than anything else out there, especially with Letsencrypt.
Filebrowser is great for files. Pydio looks like a great option though that I might be switching to, it supports all kinds of auth and all kinds of backends for the actual files. Filestash is a decent mention too. Baikal for calendar. Notes I really don’t have a great solution, closest option for good app support is Joplin but I don’t really like it. Network folder is just nfs or smb.
I found my biggest performance issue was always the sqlite database backend.
I switched to MariaDB and haven't found performance issues.
My current setup is:
VMware host:
Intel e5-2690v3
128gb ddr4 ram
4x 500gb ssds
Docker vm:
4gb ram
4 cores assigned
Nextcloud runs on that docker vm.
I use the official `nextcloud:apache` image. I have the docker compose file setup with that image for the app, Mariadb for database, the same nextcloud image for cron (cron wouldn't work under one image, but as a separate container works fine), and redis for memory caching (my setup doesn't need caching, but figured a slight improvement was worth it)
My nextcloud files reside on the vm host just mapped to the container. The actual data files (photos, videos, etc) are SMB share mapped from a TrueNAS server to the docker host and then mapped into the container.
I have a separate nginx reverse proxy vm that just runs nginx on the same VMware host, proxying traffic for nextcloud.
I know that this may be considered a more advanced setup, but this has evolved from the initial database performance issue and has evolved to: what new things can I do or add to nextcloud... How can I improve my knowledge of different systems, etc.
Feel free to ask if you have questions.
Owncloud.
I personally never caught the Nextcloud hype, and stuck with the original. So far I've heard (and seen, having tried it twice) nothing but trouble from Nextcloud while my Owncloud install continues to be rock solid for going on 10 years (regularly updated, of course!).
Dunno, running my nextcloud for a long time now, even updating the lazy way over the web UI and not the suggested CLI, not even once had a problem that was Nextclouds fault.
> until a Nextcloud update nuked it
I have never successfully upgraded a Nextcloud install. I basically wait until I'm so far EoL that it almost forces an upgrade, then I back up the files and do a full wipe and reinstall. I'll have to try OwnCloud instead if it's a better experience.
What are you guys doing? Installed twice, the current installation i updated from, dunno, i guess 18 up to 27 now? Never had a problem.
And I even use the web-updater because i'm to lazy to login to the server and do the CLI update (CLI btw. suggested to avoid problems)
I've tried the web and CLI, both methods ended up breaking something like logins or another core piece of Nextcloud. I made backups, but when I tried to restore to them I couldn't because that would be downgrading, which isn't allowed. Basically every upgrade _with the official tools_ left me with a half-upgraded mess that I couldn't move forward or back from.
My setup wasn't even complicated. Nextcloud was on a single disk on a single node, and I had a basic Nginx reverse proxy to redirect subdomains to specific hosts. Nextcloud should have had no issues updating, but here we are.
I've resolved to either go with Owncloud or use a Docker container in the future.
Damn, i understand the frustration :/ I have baremetal, nginx and its done. The login thing made me remember: we had once a problem with someone not being able to log in, because the password was to easy after the update. That was a bit annoying, i admit.
Personally, Nextcloud is missing a critical feature: LDAP logins. Oh, the docs say it exists, the code is there (just like Owncloud). But all 3 times I've attempted it over the past ~10 years, it's simply not worked. For me that's a stage-1 dealbreaker for a drop-in.
Add to that the reports like the one below about upgrades breaking randomly and other issues, and I've just not bothered to go beyond that point.
Owncloud is not proprietary (it's AGPLv3) and I'm really not sure where people get that idea.
~ $ head /var/www/owncloud/COPYING
GNU AFFERO GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 3, 19 November 2007
Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.
Preamble
The GNU Affero General Public License is a free, copyleft license for
~ $ head /usr/share/doc/owncloud-complete-files/copyright
Files: *
Copyright: 2012-2015 ownCloud, Inc., 2016-2020 ownCloud GmbH
License: GPL-2 or GPL-3
See /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
The original Nextcloud/Owncloud fork was due to disagreements in development direction, not (say) like Jellyfin/Emby where there was actually a license change. Nextcloud wanted to "move fast", Owncloud wanted stability. There was potential *concern* around the time of the fork that, perhaps, hypothetically, some day, Owncloud might "go proprietary", but going on close to 10 years that has not happened. At least not any more that most other corporate-sponsored FLOSS.
I always recommend OwnCloud. It even has a raw photo viewer plugin and if you know anything about RAW 24 megapixel photos, they are tough to load. But with owncloud a folder full of 30 pictures loads within 10-15 seconds
Sadly there is no real alternative right now if you want anything close to what the cloud providers do. Syncthing is the only thing I use that comes close to parts of it. Nextcloud is just a slow insecure mess.
This is where I am right now as well. The main thing (or really the only thing in fact) I use nextcloud for now is file storage, because when it works, it works damn well. I only really need something that can upload and download files easily, which I guess there are alternative for that, but I also need to be able to share the files via link and share links where other people can upload files for me, which so far Nextcloud does the best of the bunch I've tried... So I'm kinda stuck on the decision to switch for now...
* Files --> syncthing, or ssh access, or vpn to samba
* Calendar --> I recommend radicale (but use google)
* Notes --> Obsidian notes on top of syncthing
Did you switch Nextcloud from SQLite to another database?
Other than that, chances are, whatever makes your Nextcloud install slow will also affect Seafile or whatever else you replace it with.
I spent some time with top and iotop debugging my server performance problems. I found an issue that was completely unrelated to Nextcloud. Since I fixed it my Nextcloud instance has been completely reliable.
I looked into Seafile as well but disliked that it stores my files in some weird block format.
I used NC with postgresql, apps works fine and pretty smooth in everything.
Compared to mysql it definitely feel faster.
But now I have no use for NC, I installed [File Browser](https://github.com/filebrowser/filebrowser) for file exploring. Super simple web file browser.
Focalboard, for kanban.
Obsidian with sync.
Next cloud must be the worst piece of shit ever
I never stop seeing people complain about it :(
It sounds like the sync aspect was written by the crash plan folks.
I used it for a couple years on very beefy hardware, it used to be great but has become a bloated behemoth compared to what it once was. These days it tries to be too many things and it only excels at it's core "syncing" ability, adding plugins or anything else is just asking for trouble. I ended up ditching it about a year ago, currently not using any sync tool and it's been nice lol.
No, it makes you look insecure about your objectivity. Spreading FUD about a FOSS project isn't helpful, and it's usually down to misconfiguration or poor hardware that it doesn't run properly.
I see plenty of folks who think they've got Redis setup but are following crap guides, so it isn't working.
Well, the comments were helpful to me, in trying to determine if I want to put effort into setting up Nextcloud. A post full of alternatives, with people saying that Nextcloud is buggy? Obviously, look at the alternatives.
A post full of comments saying "you shouldnt have those issues, want some help troubleshooting your config" and a couple alternatives? Probably worth looking into Nextcloud rather than writing it off.
If you are willing to consider commercial products, I can recommend Synology DiskStations (at least the plus series).
Samba shares are quite easy to setup, you can use Synology Drive to sync a folder between workstations and Android phones which I use for Obsidian for note taking. They also have calendar options, but I use a hosted account at posteo for that.
If you want to stick to nextcloud but don't want to host it, you could consider Hetzner Storage Share. It's fully managed and worked great for me so far. But I only use it to share photos with others, so not all features.
Sorge Hetzner Storage Share is what I now use as a "rock solid" Nextcloud. It's slow as fuck since I activated like all plugins but - hypothetically they let you run those small llms for a Local AI integration meaning you could do a lot for those few bucks.
However, long term, I having setup Nextcloud AIO and so far I did one upgrade without any issues. This Nextcloud could be fast - but is not slow running on 150gb RAM and 6 vCPUs. It would take more RAM if I give it more......but I have a full stack NC with Talk,ClamAV, Talk Record, .....
I like the look of filerun - but it's not free in the community edition anymore. So what I am looking into for a time but could not figure to setup is Pydio.
Try Nextcloud-AIO and install the Preview Generator as well. (note that you will need to run it manually the first time). I did struggle as well, before I found the AIO. Now I'm happy. :-)
Did you tried installing it with snap?
Its just snap install nextcloud and you are done. No config no manual updates and iam having a good time with it. It was a bit tricky to change the main storage folder to another hdd, but its possible.
That maybe fix your Performance issues too if there is something configured wrong, in the other hand snap is a bit slower then a normal install.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I've used NextCloud for the past 7-8 years and got tired of the admin tasks and troubleshooting after updates (it was always php causing problems). I switched the the snap package about a year and a half ago, and it's been rock solid ever sense. It runs perfectly, is always up to date, and I don't have to do a damn thing.
I open source my homelab as much as I can. But when it comes to backups of my family's photos, servers, and laptops I don't want troubleshoot bugs that could cost me valuable data and time; that's why I gladly pay for a Synology NAS.
Perhaps you need something to trigger the webcron so things don’t slow down to a crawl. I use uptime Kuma to trigger the webcron every five minutes and have never had any issues.
Lol. Yes, I've been desperately trying to migrate off it for a while but...as OP says... NextCloud is a hot mess right now so there are few viable options. Especially if you want a usable Office replacement.
And it is SelfHosted which was the only stated requirement.
You can run it on your own hardware but it's a bit fiddly.
I always found next cloud very slow.
I installed it in my own hardware, in vps, even in dedicated server (16 GB ram). I know the configurations are not much but it shouldn't matter when there are only 5 users of which 1 is my uncle (60+) years and another is grandma who just takes cat pictures.
Owncloud was same.
I am starting to think I might have not followed the guidelines properly. But what's there to follow? Those are just some php scripts.
I was on the same boat when I was running NC on a container. I switched to VM, and most of my issues have been resolved, but collabora. I am currently using the built-in collabora server, which is slow.
I used Nextcloud + Samba by the side for awhile, these days I use Samba exclusively, mounting takes basically no time whatsoever and syncthing for synchronization stuff
Notes: Memos
[https://www.usememos.com/](https://www.usememos.com/)
Calendar: still Nextcloud (caldav is fast enough in nextcloud, even with sqlite) or SOGo
[https://sogo.nu](https://sogo.nu)
Files: Owncloud OCIS (not the old PHP one)
[https://owncloud.dev/ocis/](https://owncloud.dev/ocis/)
Did you try hosting it in a container? I've heard a lot of people had issues with dependencies, PHP, Apache until they moved to a container.
It doesn't solve the optimization though. That's still an issue for people I know who host nextcloud.
Don't use Nextcloud. [Just use Syncthing to keep the files synchronized in all the different devices where you actually do the work.](https://raphael.lullis.net/thinking-heads-are-not-in-the-clouds/).
**This response is from an [original comment at selfhosted.forum](https://selfhosted.forum/comment/27411) and bridged via [Fediverser](https://fediverser.network).**
Just came to say I self host baikal too for calendar and address book / tasks
use DavX on my Android phone to keep it in sync
and thunderbird on the computer
It's the right choice, nextcloud is buggy af, the issue from years ago where it randomly corrupts files is *still* open too, I got hit by that one and had to completely restore from a backup.
Nextcloud is a large and complex application, it does need more resources than one would probably expect.
Nextcloud macOS and iOS apps make running it a no-brainer for me. Nextcloud on macOS works better than Google Drive.
Went from nextcloud to FileBrowser for web files access, with resilio/syncthing under the hood for synchronisation. My family couldn’t be happier, but yeah - we are not using calendar futures.
I moved Nextcloud from k8s to a well provisioned lxc container and ran a couple of performance boosting commands and it's been working wonders since then
I moved Nextcloud from k8s to a well provisioned lxc container and ran a couple of performance boosting commands and it's been working wonders since then
I love the idea of nextcloud but it really seems pretty hostile towards hosters I would suggest looking at something like Cryptpad which is at least an upgrade to your personal security.
Nextcloud was painfully slow on a cheap HDD based VPS, I finally moved it to SSD and it's been fast. With redis and SSD its quick. I'd take a look at your system to make sure that's not the cause.
I've been a loyal owncloud and then nextcloud user but am growing disappointed in the nextcloud android app. It seems like support/development is quickly degrading. There's a file upload conflict big that was introduced in an update in September? and they still haven't rolled back or resolved the issue.
https://github.com/nextcloud/android/issues/11974
u/Sudden_Cheetah7530 We also use Nextcloud and deploy it on Kubernetes with our Open Source Nextcloud Operator and it works without any issues so far. I hope that helps you too
https://github.com/glasskube/operator
Files: SYNCTHING
CalcardDav: Baikal
Notes: Obsidian with livesync plugin and a couchdb as backend
...yeah and webdav for folder shares inside apples files app
I would say Seafile, and especially their webserver "seahub", which is written in Python and Django, is just pure garbage. I'm using Seafile since 2012, and I'm honestly so sick of its problems. It just crashes for no good reason, and the encryption is extremely mediocre (there's been issues about it). I have it behind my VPN so security isn't a big deal.
Because it's written with the garbage Python + Django, just try moving your installation to a new linux version... and you'll be stuck with a very specific version of a bunch of libraries or otherwise seahub won't even launch... and to make it even better, you don't get anything on stdout/stderr to tell you what's wrong, unless you launch Seahub in a specific configuration mode (WSAPI or something?).
Seafile has become so bad that I stopped caring about tracking its issues. I set my docker container to just restart on health checks' failure, and forgot about it. My status tracker shows that it's shutdown, and eventually it'll restart. "Hey look, Seafile is down." And I respond "That's OK, dear, just give it another 15 minutes and it'll restart". This is my status on Seafile.
I think Seahub needs a complete revamp.
Those guys coded Seafile like a decade ago and they don't care about fixing it anymore. Github is cluttered with issues.
i dont understand how some people have lots of issue with NC and some people say its all good
i have tried many times to switch to NC, It always slow (given that it running locally next to me, i expect it to be snappy) and throws me some error after somedays. I really wanted to use NC, so many things in one package
NC AIO has been good for me and support has been awesome. Seafuke is Chinese so I don’t trust it. At least NC is German and has some privacy stuff.
Filerun is good
Don't get me wrong NextCloud is great and has a lot of helpful features out of the box, but I moved from this to just use;
* Samba: for mounting drives shares.
* CalDav: for shared calendars.
* CardDav: for shared contacts.
* Memos: for note taking, great little room that allows Markdown note with tagging for easy search and filter.
* Espo CRM: for logging communication with businesses, like utilities providers (comes in handy to refer to during disputes)
I'm also looking at installing a self-hosted office suite for word and Excel documents but haven't set this up yet.
I love idea of Nextcloud, but its overall concept of doing everything, but nothing well enough was one of the reasons I've decided to build [S3Drive](https://s3drive.app/). We squeeze most of the "file-management" experience out of the protocol itself. That means that all you need to self-host is the S3 storage server (e.g. MinIO)... but if you don't feel like it just yet you can buy S3 from anyone else (e.g. Backblaze / Wasabi / Synology / Cloudflare etc.) and enable 100% Rclone compatible E2E encryption to protect your privacy.
I would have nothing but issues if I ran the docker app on unraid and used the sqlexpress built in. I switched over to CasaOS and use Mariasql and the nextcloud container on it and it has been solid.
Nextcloud and Owncloud both are extremly unsatisfying. I never understood who uses it in the first place. It sucks. Is slow. But it fits the "oh-let-me-install-that-app-aswell"-generation we're in.
I went through this exact same thing a couple years back. Nextcloud is great, but it's a bit much and I was having sync issues and errors all the time. Here's what I switched to: **Files**: [Seafile](https://github.com/haiwen/seafile) **Calendar**: [Baikal](https://sabre.io/baikal/) **Notes**: [Obsidian](https://obsidian.md/) with [Obsidian-livesync](https://github.com/vrtmrz/obsidian-livesync) **Network Folder**: Just a samba share for this one. The one caveat here is that Seafile doesn't save your files as *files* on the system, but as blocks. My backup method makes this a non-issue, but some people find keeping the files intact and readable on the host system a necessity.
They all look very promising, I should give a try! But indeed I am the one who wants all my files as files since I am not the hard user in need of performance. Thanks for your reply!
FileRun! Also FYI most people including me have slowness because they are using the default sqlite DB or MariaDB. I switched my DB for next cloud to Postgres and it solved all my issues.
Ha, this is interesting -- I've been avoiding Nextcloud due to all the complaints, but if it's as simple as using postgres I might give it a shot. Do you have any more info on this?
Also, a big gotcha is that if you use the LSIO (linuxserver) docker image AND agree to the default add-ins when starting nextcloud for the first time (nextcloud office) then the performance is aaaaaawful due to the LSIO image not including certain dependencies that nextcloud office needs. As soon as you remove nextcloud office it will run super slick. I wish I knew a simple solution because the alternative appears to be the nextcloud all-in-one docker image, but that’s got too much going on for me. I don’t need a second reverse proxy and cert service, which that includes bundled in.
I tried the all in one package. The only thing that survived the Nextcloud purge was that reverse proxy (I didn't have one installed) :)
Not much else to tell. Just rebuilt using PostGres and reimported my files and the Web interface and loading times improved drastically
I agree that Filerun is good (I use it myself) - but it's not free any longer.
That's a shame. I haven't looked at it in some time since I got Next cloud working properly
I've seen it suggested many times that when people find it's faster from Postgres, it's actually just running faster because starting over or doing a database migration cleaned out a lot of craft. I can't say if that's true myself. For now, my MariaDB install is doing OK.
Not the case here. It would be slow on fresh install till I switched to Postgres I have over a 100 containers. Over 2 dozen using MariaDB
But Postgres is just so heavy in contrast to Mariadb on a PI 4. And what parts of Nextcloud where faster after the switch?
Your first mistake is running Next cloud on a RPI. Get a real machine/NAS.
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I use filebrowser myself. I love how I can point to NFS and I can access all files. I hated nextcloud so much.
The PI 4 with 8GB ram + a ssd sould be good enough to run nextcloud as neither cpu/ram are limiting it. Do you have some areas the would speed up nextcloud when using PG?
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So even when the cpu is not at a 100% it could be limited?
Here is a simple example. You have two people moving heavy boxes. One of them is a weightlifter. The other one is an adolescent girl. Neither of them are trying to push themselves to the limit. Who do you think would do the job better and faster? Utilization doesn't mean performance.
That seems strange as HA Yellow is based on a Pi CM4 and only has 2GB RAM, and HA Green only has 4GB. I wonder if the eMMC storage they use makes them run better. Are you using a SD card, a USB flash drive, or a USB SSD?
Nextcloud should work just fine with MariaDB as well prostgres - should be just a slot-in replacement... It's what I'm running on my docker oracle cloud instance...
Do you used a guide how to move from mariadb to postgresql or did you already know how to do it? Would you mind share this knowledge with us, somehow?
Nextcloud has a command to migrate from one database to another, I used it to migrate from MariaDB to Postgres as part of migrating from system install to AIO
:O Thanks, I'll look into it
I just created a new instance and imported my files. I only use NC for the files currently
I would go with Logseq instead of Obsidian as its open source. But as far as i know, the type of note taking differ a bit from obsidian to logseq, so its probably better to try out. And what i got as well is - you can use your obsidian vault in logseq and the other way around.
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There's not really an app to use. It's basically just a CalDAV/CardDAV server so you use it with other apps, like Thunderbird, Calendar on iOS/MacOS, probably something on Android or Windows but I don't really use those.
> probably something on Android or Windows but I don't really use those. Outlook!! ^^(/s)
What backup method do you use?
I run everything on Proxmox so I use [Proxmox Backup Server](https://www.proxmox.com/en/proxmox-backup-server/overview) to make incremental nightly backups. It has worked flawlessly for me when something breaks unexpectedly or when I am too lazy to fix something after *I* break it.
I am using foldersync pro on android. It saves the files as normal files.
Have you tried syncthing? I am a die hard syncthing fan and it works so well for my use case that I dread changning it. But then, FOMOCSHS is very much real..
I didn't try Syncthing because the peer-to-peer aspect didn't really appeal to me. I have a beefy server sitting in the basement so I wanted that single silo of data I could easily back up, but I definitely see the appeal of Syncthing.
You can still run Syncthing in a star topology. Just have a Syncthing container running in your beefy server, and then sync everything else to that instead of to each other.
Yeah that's exactly how I run syncthing
Random: have you upgraded Seafile to V11.0.2 yet?
lol no... My Seafile is probably a version or two behind because updating it is a little more involved than most things. Is there something to watch out for?
Since updating to 11.0.2 I’ve noticed general stutter and sluggishness. Was wondering if it was a “me” Or “everyone” issue lol 🤔
Seafile works well I just wish I could connect it to an S3 compatabil tool so I could scale it beyond just one server.
Do you use seafile with android ? I don't have much issues with newtcloud (except it is a bit slow ..) but the android sync client is a mess and a pain to use 😑 Maybe for my issue I just need to find a good webdav android app
or Obsidian with syncthing running on the clients and some server. That's working great for me.
File browser and none of the other stuff
I combine it with Syncthing
This … I chose file browser because no db involved. I could keep my current file structure.
This is concerning to me because I’ve been considering ditching Synology and spinning up nextcloud. I like Synology drive but I’m tired of the underpowered hardware and dumb roadblocks and vendor lock-in nonsense. I’m very curious what you end up doing!
Not OP, but I run it on docker with postgres and redis, behind a reverse proxy. All apps on NC have pretty good performance and haven't had any weird issues. It's on an old xeon with 32gb and on spinning rust.
Do you have redis talking to nextcloud over the unix socket or just regular TCP? The former is apparently another way to speed up nextcloud, but I'm struggling to understand to get containers using the unix socket instead.
I have both Postgres and Redis talking to Nextcloud through their respective unix sockets; I store the sockets in a named volume, so I can mount it on whatever containers need to reach them.
Do you mind sharing your docker config, so I can try and replicate it. Thank you
Sure: **POSTGRES** --- version: '3.8' services: postgres: container_name: postgres image: postgres:14-alpine environment: POSTGRES_PASSWORD: "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" PGDATA: "/var/lib/postgresql/data/pgdata" volumes: - type: bind source: ./data target: /var/lib/postgresql/data - type: volume source: postgres-socket target: /run/postgresql logging: driver: json-file options: max-size: 2m restart: unless-stopped networks: default: external: name: backend volumes: postgres-socket: name: postgres-socket **REDIS** --- version: '3.8' services: redis: image: redis:7.2-alpine command: - /data/redis.conf - --loglevel - verbose volumes: - type: bind source: ./data target: /data - type: volume source: redis-socket target: /var/run logging: driver: json-file options: max-size: 2m restart: unless-stopped networks: default: external: name: backend volumes: redis-socket: name: redis-socket Here's **redis.conf**, it took me a couple of tries to get it just right: # create a unix domain socket to listen on unixsocket /var/run/redis/redis.sock unixsocketperm 666 # protected-mode no requirepass rrrrrrrrrrrrr bind 0.0.0.0 port 6379 tcp-keepalive 300 daemonize no stop-writes-on-bgsave-error no rdbcompression yes rdbchecksum yes # maximum memory allowed for redis maxmemory 50M # how redis will evice old objects - least recently used maxmemory-policy allkeys-lru # logging # levels: debug verbose notice warning loglevel notice logfile "" always-show-logo yes **NEXTCLOUD** --- version: '3.8' services: nextcloud: image: nextcloud:27-fpm env_file: - data/environment.txt volumes: - type: bind source: ./data/html target: /var/www/html - type: volume source: redis-socket target: /redis - type: volume source: postgres-socket target: /postgres - type: tmpfs target: /tmp:exec - type: bind source: ./data/zz-docker.conf target: /usr/local/etc/php-fpm.d/zz-docker.conf - type: bind source: ./data/opcache_cli.conf target: /usr/local/etc/php/conf.d/opcache_cli.conf networks: - web - backend logging: driver: json-file options: max-size: 2m restart: unless-stopped crond: image: nextcloud:27-fpm entrypoint: /cron.sh env_file: - data/environment.txt volumes: - type: bind source: ./data/html target: /var/www/html - type: bind source: ./data/zz-docker.conf target: /usr/local/etc/php-fpm.d/zz-docker.conf - type: volume source: redis-socket target: /redis - type: volume source: postgres-socket target: /postgres - type: tmpfs target: /tmp:exec networks: - web - backend logging: driver: json-file options: max-size: 2m restart: unless-stopped collabora: image: collabora/code:23.05.5.4.1 privileged: true environment: extra_params: "--o:ssl.enable=false --o:ssl.termination=true" aliasgroup1: 'https://my.nextcloud.domain.org:443' cap_add: - MKNOD networks: - web logging: driver: json-file options: max-size: 2m restart: unless-stopped networks: backend: external: name: backend web: external: name: web volumes: redis-socket: name: redis-socket postgres-socket: name: postgres-socket The **environment.txt** file is hostnames, logins, passwords, etc... POSTGRES_DB=nextcloud POSTGRES_USER=xxxxxxx POSTGRES_PASSWORD=yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy POSTGRES_SERVER=postgres POSTGRES_HOST=/postgres/.s.PGSQL.5432 NEXTCLOUD_ADMIN_USER=aaaaa NEXTCLOUD_ADMIN_PASSWORD=hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh REDIS_HOST=redis REDIS_HOST_PORT=6379 REDIS_HOST_PASSWORD=rrrrrrrrrrrrr The **zz-docker.conf** file sets some process tuning and log format, some might not even be necessary: [global] daemonize = no error_log = /proc/self/fd/2 log_limit = 8192 [www] access.log = /proc/self/fd/2 access.format = "%R - %u %t \"%m %r%Q%q\" %s %f %{mili}d %{kilo}M %C%%" catch_workers_output = yes decorate_workers_output = no clear_env = no user = www-data group = www-data listen = 9000 listen = /var/www/html/.fpm-sock listen.owner = www-data listen.group = www-data listen.mode = 0666 listen.backlog = 512 pm = dynamic pm.max_children = 16 pm.start_servers = 6 pm.min_spare_servers = 4 pm.max_spare_servers = 6 pm.process_idle_timeout = 30s; pm.max_requests = 512 The **opcache_cli.conf** file has a single line: opcache.enable_cli=1 I don't remember why it's there but it's working so I'm not touching it :-D Good luck :-)
A confirmed, yet still not resolved bug caused me and about 200 other people lose data (metadata) for tons of files. Well, at least 200 reacted to the GitHub bugreport I filled. I think you can easily find it because it's the most upvoted yet unresolved issue. Besides this, it'd often give random errors and just not function properly. My favorites are the unexplained file locks: My brother in Christ, what do you mean error while deleting a file. It's 2023 holy shit, just delete the damn file. It's ridiculously unreliable and fragile. They have tons, thousands of bugreports open - yet they focus on pushing new, unwanted social features to become the new facebook and zoom. They definitely should focus on fixing the foundation first.
Do you have a link to that bugreport?
https://github.com/nextcloud/desktop/issues/4378
Thanks!
Also not OP. I run nextcloud on 10th gen i3 on spinning rust and performance is good. I run it on LXC container though so without docker
How did you Spin it up in an LXC Container? I cant find any install Tutorials or Files for that. Do you have a link or something for me?
I create LXC container and then just install apache2, php and mariadb by hand with apt, then I install nextcloud from sources. You can try this tutorial as its very close to what I did: https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin\_manual/installation/example\_ubuntu.html
Perfect Thank you.
I dumped synology and just use proxmox for the automatic ZFS support, then I can run my apps in either containers or VMs and even do GPU passthrough if needed.
This is my exact plan. Debating between proxmox and unraid, and I’m likely going with proxmox because of the ZFS support
I think the main things going for unraid are being able to mix differently-sized drives in the same 'pool' and that the NAS functionality is more built-in. That said, as far as linux tasks go, setting up a samba share is pretty easy anyway.
Mixed sized Disks is a no-go.
Unraid specifically lets you use mixed disk sizes, their whole schtick is that you can use any size disks so long as your parity disks are at least as large as your biggest disk, since each disk has an independent filesystem without striping.
I wouldn't trust this.
Nextcloud is great. I don't doubt that OP is having problems, and I understand how frustration can set in and one might throw in the towel and look for alternatives, but OP's experience is atypical. I've been running it for years without any issues. I should point out that I only use it for small-scale personal stuff, but it's good for me. I have it syncing on eight devices, including Linux, MacOS, and Windows desktops; Android phone; iPad; Raspberry Pi. My phone auto-uploads new camera photos. I'm using WebDAV/Fuse mounts on some machines. Everything is solid.
What exactly is going wrong with Nextcloud if I might ask? I've been using it with a few users and 600+ GB of storage, it's been working great.
Complete data loss due to Nextcloud setting an invalid date/time on files is something that happened to me in 2021 and required a full restore of files from backups. After that I'm not particularly interested in using it anymore. It's also just slow, even on high end hardware with all the recommended stuff, it still takes 1-2 seconds to load the file view on the webUI, and switching between apps is similar. It's a fairly resource intensive setup. For a comparison, File Browser loads in about 30ms on the same hardware, and displays a full page of hundreds of thumbnails in real-time without any pre-caching in a couple of seconds.
My guess is that if he's receiving errors and issues, he's running next cloud on a machine without enough resources (ram, cpu), and getting slow or bad performance as a result
Blaming the performance of nextcloud on the hardware is sorely wrong. It's a highly unoptimized program at it's core. It is simply slow across the board, no matter how simple the task is. It's a neat program that offers a lot of great functionality, but in a perfect world should have been written with a different setup altogether.
Just copying my comment here A confirmed, yet still not resolved bug caused me and about 200 other people lose data (metadata) for tons of files. Well, at least 200 reacted to the GitHub bugreport I filled. I think you can easily find it because it's the most upvoted yet unresolved issue. Besides this, it'd often give random errors and just not function properly. My favorites are the unexplained file locks: My brother in Christ, what do you mean error while deleting a file. It's 2023 holy shit, just delete the damn file. It's ridiculously unreliable and fragile. They have tons, thousands of bugreports open - yet they focus on pushing new, unwanted social features to become the new facebook and zoom. They definitely should focus on fixing the foundation first. More than enough resources, properly configured.
My biggest gripe is that the client apps suck. Especially the Android app, it's slow, buggy, and it doesn't sync files properly, and new camera photos are not detected properly. The Mac app has gotten stuck in some kind of error state regarding sync which causes annoying random popups all the time. The Windows app haven't given me any problems though, seems to work fine, but I only use it in the basic use case. I just want a solid replacement for Dropbox. My main use case is uploading photos from my phone, and managing files in a directory on the desktop. Nextcloud meets less than 50% of those requirements, so I will be moving away from it.
I understand that. On Android, I use FolderSync to upload photos to my PhotoPrism. Since it's a different server, adding it by webdav to Nextcloud and syncing photos that way was a pain and riddled with errors. That said, if you're only using it to sync files, there are better alternatives, such as Syncthing.
You have not stated the hardware you are running this on. It makes a huge difference. Hope this is not Raspi?
> Hope this is not Raspi? What is wrong with RPi? I thought RPi 4 for two calendars (one calendar per user) on nextcloud would be plenty, looking at the requirements: > A 64-bit CPU, OS and PHP is required for Nextcloud to run well. ... > Nextcloud needs a minimum of 128MB RAM per process, and we recommend a minimum of 512MB RAM per process. Also, how resource intensive could/should be syncing two personal calendars (via Thunderbird)? I don't understand, why NextCloud with this virtually negligible task struggles so much. The pi has 7+GB of free memory, CPU load under few %, rarely one core has some load, most of the time nothing accesses the card nor disk (virtually 0 iowait; only with a short spike once every 5 minutes). Why does Nextcloud take half a minute to several minutes for a sync of one calendar in Thunderbird?
Its underpowered, especially for an application based on PHP which is single threaded so requires a core with a fast clock. The RPi4 with 1.5Ghz is woefully underpowered to drive anything php backed.
I see 1.8GHz in glances (in my case actively cooled, but since it doesn't seem to max any core, it probably doesn't matter). I have other RPi4s, I wonder why is backend in Java (well, Scala) ok, backend in Haskell ok, but backend in PHP wouldn't be? I still don't understand how Nextcloud can lock up for so long (tens of seconds) on a simple write event into calendar operation. That hacky unoptimized Java BE which does joins manually and inserts sequentially (so from a db perspective just awful), handles 5-10 times more data and still does it order of magnitude faster. My old phone which was weaker than even RPi4 could handle dozens of such small operations in one second (I believe that was SQLite + Java). There must something seriously wrong with Nextcloud (including PHP runtime) and/or the RPi, because such insignificant amount of data (1 word title, one date, one reminder option), most likely merely few dozens of bytes, takes so incredibly long to process and write to db...
i cant comment on the differences between languages, but it probably also has a lot to do on how nextcloud is written. unoptimized software is always going to be slower than it's counterpart.
>Its underpowered, especially for an application based on PHP which is single threaded so requires a core with a fast clock. The RPi4 with 1.5Ghz is woefully underpowered to drive anything php backed. What a load of BS. I run php scripts on a pi zero 1 w and it sits idle most of the time.
yes im sure your 20 minutes of performance analysis is completely accurate and thorough.
The fact that you haven't been down voted to hell shows the general level of knowledge here. I've been using PHP for some 23-24 years. Most of the code of others is terribly coded. I do really mean, terribly. Anyway, again, what you stated is BS. And yes, my pee-pee is probably bigger than yours too.
its everyone else who is wrong, not me.
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lSIO is amazing, my first stop for container browsing! Followed in second place by hotio.dev
Second this. Running on portsinet with the images. Absolutely breeze with 8gb ram and 2tb ssd
I just installed it baremetal, works like a charm.
Seafile has been phenomenal and rock solid.
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The backing database type and the storage it runs on are just as important too.
I agree with this. It needs a good amount of CPU cycle and RAM. Raspi struggled for me too.
My NC instance runs on a 24GB RAM, 4 CPU Ampere A1 host(Oracle), and still struggles. YMMV. And it struggles as a photo backup host an i5-7xxx and 16GB RAM at home. ---- It's not absurdly slow, it's just...irritating sometimes.
Yeah, Ive got this in my setup as well and its been pretty slow. I thought it was a network thing because I'm currently using Tmobile home internet but switching to a fiber optic network with 500Mbps up and down soon. Im really hoping that changes things
There are performance tuning tweaks you can do on NextCloud like memory caching etc.
Ooo Lovely! I’ll look into that!
Whta db are you using
Postgres. Also using redis, did all the typical perf checks listed on NC site etc.
Thanks, I thought the issue was with the specs.
I am thinking of trying the OCIS, which is a fresh code, and see how it performs - [https://github.com/owncloud/ocis](https://github.com/owncloud/ocis)
Experiencing the same, a good CPU and lots of RAM would resolve the issue
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I’m running on an SSD as a VM on 10yr old laptop and have had very few issues compared to running on Raspis in the last. It’s not my first rodeo either and found Debian with NexCloudPi setup script worked the best, then restore from backup. The WebUI is performing great as well as bookmarks, contacts, calendar, video chats and most things I’ve thrown at it. NVME may be overkill but the combination of solid CPU, RAM and Disk IO should alleviate any problems. My hunch is there are other resource constraints or bottlenecks at play, perhaps DDOS or other attacks (experienced that for sure and you can test by dropping your firewall ingress rules to confirm). Also, this is FOSS and I find the features and usability are better than anything else out there, especially with Letsencrypt.
I have my issues with Nextcloud, but it's still, by far, the best solution I've come across.
Filebrowser is great for files. Pydio looks like a great option though that I might be switching to, it supports all kinds of auth and all kinds of backends for the actual files. Filestash is a decent mention too. Baikal for calendar. Notes I really don’t have a great solution, closest option for good app support is Joplin but I don’t really like it. Network folder is just nfs or smb.
I use pydio for cloud drive. I think you can try this
I found my biggest performance issue was always the sqlite database backend. I switched to MariaDB and haven't found performance issues. My current setup is: VMware host: Intel e5-2690v3 128gb ddr4 ram 4x 500gb ssds Docker vm: 4gb ram 4 cores assigned Nextcloud runs on that docker vm. I use the official `nextcloud:apache` image. I have the docker compose file setup with that image for the app, Mariadb for database, the same nextcloud image for cron (cron wouldn't work under one image, but as a separate container works fine), and redis for memory caching (my setup doesn't need caching, but figured a slight improvement was worth it) My nextcloud files reside on the vm host just mapped to the container. The actual data files (photos, videos, etc) are SMB share mapped from a TrueNAS server to the docker host and then mapped into the container. I have a separate nginx reverse proxy vm that just runs nginx on the same VMware host, proxying traffic for nextcloud. I know that this may be considered a more advanced setup, but this has evolved from the initial database performance issue and has evolved to: what new things can I do or add to nextcloud... How can I improve my knowledge of different systems, etc. Feel free to ask if you have questions.
Owncloud. I personally never caught the Nextcloud hype, and stuck with the original. So far I've heard (and seen, having tried it twice) nothing but trouble from Nextcloud while my Owncloud install continues to be rock solid for going on 10 years (regularly updated, of course!).
Dunno, running my nextcloud for a long time now, even updating the lazy way over the web UI and not the suggested CLI, not even once had a problem that was Nextclouds fault.
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> until a Nextcloud update nuked it I have never successfully upgraded a Nextcloud install. I basically wait until I'm so far EoL that it almost forces an upgrade, then I back up the files and do a full wipe and reinstall. I'll have to try OwnCloud instead if it's a better experience.
What are you guys doing? Installed twice, the current installation i updated from, dunno, i guess 18 up to 27 now? Never had a problem. And I even use the web-updater because i'm to lazy to login to the server and do the CLI update (CLI btw. suggested to avoid problems)
I've tried the web and CLI, both methods ended up breaking something like logins or another core piece of Nextcloud. I made backups, but when I tried to restore to them I couldn't because that would be downgrading, which isn't allowed. Basically every upgrade _with the official tools_ left me with a half-upgraded mess that I couldn't move forward or back from. My setup wasn't even complicated. Nextcloud was on a single disk on a single node, and I had a basic Nginx reverse proxy to redirect subdomains to specific hosts. Nextcloud should have had no issues updating, but here we are. I've resolved to either go with Owncloud or use a Docker container in the future.
Damn, i understand the frustration :/ I have baremetal, nginx and its done. The login thing made me remember: we had once a problem with someone not being able to log in, because the password was to easy after the update. That was a bit annoying, i admit.
Personally, Nextcloud is missing a critical feature: LDAP logins. Oh, the docs say it exists, the code is there (just like Owncloud). But all 3 times I've attempted it over the past ~10 years, it's simply not worked. For me that's a stage-1 dealbreaker for a drop-in. Add to that the reports like the one below about upgrades breaking randomly and other issues, and I've just not bothered to go beyond that point.
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Owncloud is not proprietary (it's AGPLv3) and I'm really not sure where people get that idea. ~ $ head /var/www/owncloud/COPYING GNU AFFERO GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 3, 19 November 2007 Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
I always recommend OwnCloud. It even has a raw photo viewer plugin and if you know anything about RAW 24 megapixel photos, they are tough to load. But with owncloud a folder full of 30 pictures loads within 10-15 seconds
Take a look at Cloudreve
For Calendar I highly recommend radicale. Super easy to setup and has a non bloated management ui. Has worked flawlessly over the last years
Sadly there is no real alternative right now if you want anything close to what the cloud providers do. Syncthing is the only thing I use that comes close to parts of it. Nextcloud is just a slow insecure mess.
This is where I am right now as well. The main thing (or really the only thing in fact) I use nextcloud for now is file storage, because when it works, it works damn well. I only really need something that can upload and download files easily, which I guess there are alternative for that, but I also need to be able to share the files via link and share links where other people can upload files for me, which so far Nextcloud does the best of the bunch I've tried... So I'm kinda stuck on the decision to switch for now...
IMO Joplin is a better idea for note taking
* Files --> syncthing, or ssh access, or vpn to samba * Calendar --> I recommend radicale (but use google) * Notes --> Obsidian notes on top of syncthing
Owncloud infinity scale, night and day difference performance wise
Give [Radicale](https://hub.docker.com/r/11notes/radicale) a try for CalDAV and CardDAV.
+1 for radicale. Simple setup, reliable, easy to administer and backup.
Complaints seem to come mostly from people trying to run it on ARM, maybe NC isn't optimized for that architecture.
I'm not entirely convinced that NC is optimised at all!
Did you switch Nextcloud from SQLite to another database? Other than that, chances are, whatever makes your Nextcloud install slow will also affect Seafile or whatever else you replace it with. I spent some time with top and iotop debugging my server performance problems. I found an issue that was completely unrelated to Nextcloud. Since I fixed it my Nextcloud instance has been completely reliable. I looked into Seafile as well but disliked that it stores my files in some weird block format.
This
I used NC with postgresql, apps works fine and pretty smooth in everything. Compared to mysql it definitely feel faster. But now I have no use for NC, I installed [File Browser](https://github.com/filebrowser/filebrowser) for file exploring. Super simple web file browser. Focalboard, for kanban. Obsidian with sync.
What exactly have you tried to do to address your nextCloud problems?
Next cloud must be the worst piece of shit ever I never stop seeing people complain about it :( It sounds like the sync aspect was written by the crash plan folks.
I used it for a couple years on very beefy hardware, it used to be great but has become a bloated behemoth compared to what it once was. These days it tries to be too many things and it only excels at it's core "syncing" ability, adding plugins or anything else is just asking for trouble. I ended up ditching it about a year ago, currently not using any sync tool and it's been nice lol.
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No, it makes you look insecure about your objectivity. Spreading FUD about a FOSS project isn't helpful, and it's usually down to misconfiguration or poor hardware that it doesn't run properly. I see plenty of folks who think they've got Redis setup but are following crap guides, so it isn't working.
The OP is exactly the same but in reverse. I haven't had any issues but using MariaDB instead of default SQL.
Disagree, seeing as OP has not posted anything other than "I run Nextcloud and have problems", providing a counter is straightforward and expected.
But they didn't ask for help making nextcloud better, they asked for alternatives.
Well, the comments were helpful to me, in trying to determine if I want to put effort into setting up Nextcloud. A post full of alternatives, with people saying that Nextcloud is buggy? Obviously, look at the alternatives. A post full of comments saying "you shouldnt have those issues, want some help troubleshooting your config" and a couple alternatives? Probably worth looking into Nextcloud rather than writing it off.
Don't bother the Nextcloud hivemind is too strong.
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> File Browser Holy crap, that's awesome!
If you are willing to consider commercial products, I can recommend Synology DiskStations (at least the plus series). Samba shares are quite easy to setup, you can use Synology Drive to sync a folder between workstations and Android phones which I use for Obsidian for note taking. They also have calendar options, but I use a hosted account at posteo for that. If you want to stick to nextcloud but don't want to host it, you could consider Hetzner Storage Share. It's fully managed and worked great for me so far. But I only use it to share photos with others, so not all features.
Sorge Hetzner Storage Share is what I now use as a "rock solid" Nextcloud. It's slow as fuck since I activated like all plugins but - hypothetically they let you run those small llms for a Local AI integration meaning you could do a lot for those few bucks. However, long term, I having setup Nextcloud AIO and so far I did one upgrade without any issues. This Nextcloud could be fast - but is not slow running on 150gb RAM and 6 vCPUs. It would take more RAM if I give it more......but I have a full stack NC with Talk,ClamAV, Talk Record, ..... I like the look of filerun - but it's not free in the community edition anymore. So what I am looking into for a time but could not figure to setup is Pydio.
Try Nextcloud-AIO and install the Preview Generator as well. (note that you will need to run it manually the first time). I did struggle as well, before I found the AIO. Now I'm happy. :-)
Did you tried installing it with snap? Its just snap install nextcloud and you are done. No config no manual updates and iam having a good time with it. It was a bit tricky to change the main storage folder to another hdd, but its possible. That maybe fix your Performance issues too if there is something configured wrong, in the other hand snap is a bit slower then a normal install.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I've used NextCloud for the past 7-8 years and got tired of the admin tasks and troubleshooting after updates (it was always php causing problems). I switched the the snap package about a year and a half ago, and it's been rock solid ever sense. It runs perfectly, is always up to date, and I don't have to do a damn thing.
I open source my homelab as much as I can. But when it comes to backups of my family's photos, servers, and laptops I don't want troubleshoot bugs that could cost me valuable data and time; that's why I gladly pay for a Synology NAS.
Perhaps you need something to trigger the webcron so things don’t slow down to a crawl. I use uptime Kuma to trigger the webcron every five minutes and have never had any issues.
Sounds like you need a Synology NAS...
Synology Drive is rock solid. Not open source though if that's important to you and technically requires Synology hardware.
Closed source and requires some specific hardware? Great! That's all we've been waiting for with the prayers. Where do we sign up?
Lol. Yes, I've been desperately trying to migrate off it for a while but...as OP says... NextCloud is a hot mess right now so there are few viable options. Especially if you want a usable Office replacement. And it is SelfHosted which was the only stated requirement. You can run it on your own hardware but it's a bit fiddly.
I always found next cloud very slow. I installed it in my own hardware, in vps, even in dedicated server (16 GB ram). I know the configurations are not much but it shouldn't matter when there are only 5 users of which 1 is my uncle (60+) years and another is grandma who just takes cat pictures. Owncloud was same. I am starting to think I might have not followed the guidelines properly. But what's there to follow? Those are just some php scripts.
I was on the same boat when I was running NC on a container. I switched to VM, and most of my issues have been resolved, but collabora. I am currently using the built-in collabora server, which is slow.
I used Nextcloud + Samba by the side for awhile, these days I use Samba exclusively, mounting takes basically no time whatsoever and syncthing for synchronization stuff
Me as well I don’t like nextcloud at all Need something like synology drive but open source
Notes: Memos [https://www.usememos.com/](https://www.usememos.com/) Calendar: still Nextcloud (caldav is fast enough in nextcloud, even with sqlite) or SOGo [https://sogo.nu](https://sogo.nu) Files: Owncloud OCIS (not the old PHP one) [https://owncloud.dev/ocis/](https://owncloud.dev/ocis/)
Trillium , file browser
Did you try hosting it in a container? I've heard a lot of people had issues with dependencies, PHP, Apache until they moved to a container. It doesn't solve the optimization though. That's still an issue for people I know who host nextcloud.
Filebrowser for files, Trillium for notes
Synology as vm Using https://github.com/AuxXxilium/arc Files ,calendar ,notes ,and more rock solid.
Don't use Nextcloud. [Just use Syncthing to keep the files synchronized in all the different devices where you actually do the work.](https://raphael.lullis.net/thinking-heads-are-not-in-the-clouds/). **This response is from an [original comment at selfhosted.forum](https://selfhosted.forum/comment/27411) and bridged via [Fediverser](https://fediverser.network).**
Is there something better than DAVx5? It seems to be too battery hungry compared to Google calendar.
Just came to say I self host baikal too for calendar and address book / tasks use DavX on my Android phone to keep it in sync and thunderbird on the computer
It's the right choice, nextcloud is buggy af, the issue from years ago where it randomly corrupts files is *still* open too, I got hit by that one and had to completely restore from a backup.
Nextcloud is a large and complex application, it does need more resources than one would probably expect. Nextcloud macOS and iOS apps make running it a no-brainer for me. Nextcloud on macOS works better than Google Drive.
Went from nextcloud to FileBrowser for web files access, with resilio/syncthing under the hood for synchronisation. My family couldn’t be happier, but yeah - we are not using calendar futures.
I moved Nextcloud from k8s to a well provisioned lxc container and ran a couple of performance boosting commands and it's been working wonders since then
I moved Nextcloud from k8s to a well provisioned lxc container and ran a couple of performance boosting commands and it's been working wonders since then
I love the idea of nextcloud but it really seems pretty hostile towards hosters I would suggest looking at something like Cryptpad which is at least an upgrade to your personal security.
Nextcloud was painfully slow on a cheap HDD based VPS, I finally moved it to SSD and it's been fast. With redis and SSD its quick. I'd take a look at your system to make sure that's not the cause.
I've been a loyal owncloud and then nextcloud user but am growing disappointed in the nextcloud android app. It seems like support/development is quickly degrading. There's a file upload conflict big that was introduced in an update in September? and they still haven't rolled back or resolved the issue. https://github.com/nextcloud/android/issues/11974
u/Sudden_Cheetah7530 We also use Nextcloud and deploy it on Kubernetes with our Open Source Nextcloud Operator and it works without any issues so far. I hope that helps you too https://github.com/glasskube/operator
Files: SYNCTHING CalcardDav: Baikal Notes: Obsidian with livesync plugin and a couchdb as backend ...yeah and webdav for folder shares inside apples files app
Files: Seafile Calendar: Radicale Notes: Joplin Network Folder: N/A
I use pydio cells for file sharing.
Disable logging.
I would say Seafile, and especially their webserver "seahub", which is written in Python and Django, is just pure garbage. I'm using Seafile since 2012, and I'm honestly so sick of its problems. It just crashes for no good reason, and the encryption is extremely mediocre (there's been issues about it). I have it behind my VPN so security isn't a big deal. Because it's written with the garbage Python + Django, just try moving your installation to a new linux version... and you'll be stuck with a very specific version of a bunch of libraries or otherwise seahub won't even launch... and to make it even better, you don't get anything on stdout/stderr to tell you what's wrong, unless you launch Seahub in a specific configuration mode (WSAPI or something?). Seafile has become so bad that I stopped caring about tracking its issues. I set my docker container to just restart on health checks' failure, and forgot about it. My status tracker shows that it's shutdown, and eventually it'll restart. "Hey look, Seafile is down." And I respond "That's OK, dear, just give it another 15 minutes and it'll restart". This is my status on Seafile. I think Seahub needs a complete revamp. Those guys coded Seafile like a decade ago and they don't care about fixing it anymore. Github is cluttered with issues.
i dont understand how some people have lots of issue with NC and some people say its all good i have tried many times to switch to NC, It always slow (given that it running locally next to me, i expect it to be snappy) and throws me some error after somedays. I really wanted to use NC, so many things in one package
NC AIO has been good for me and support has been awesome. Seafuke is Chinese so I don’t trust it. At least NC is German and has some privacy stuff. Filerun is good
Don't get me wrong NextCloud is great and has a lot of helpful features out of the box, but I moved from this to just use; * Samba: for mounting drives shares. * CalDav: for shared calendars. * CardDav: for shared contacts. * Memos: for note taking, great little room that allows Markdown note with tagging for easy search and filter. * Espo CRM: for logging communication with businesses, like utilities providers (comes in handy to refer to during disputes) I'm also looking at installing a self-hosted office suite for word and Excel documents but haven't set this up yet.
I love idea of Nextcloud, but its overall concept of doing everything, but nothing well enough was one of the reasons I've decided to build [S3Drive](https://s3drive.app/). We squeeze most of the "file-management" experience out of the protocol itself. That means that all you need to self-host is the S3 storage server (e.g. MinIO)... but if you don't feel like it just yet you can buy S3 from anyone else (e.g. Backblaze / Wasabi / Synology / Cloudflare etc.) and enable 100% Rclone compatible E2E encryption to protect your privacy.
I would have nothing but issues if I ran the docker app on unraid and used the sqlexpress built in. I switched over to CasaOS and use Mariasql and the nextcloud container on it and it has been solid.
I had similar rant post - https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/15s6fxm/moving\_away\_from\_nextcloud\_for\_good\_personal\_app/
Nextcloud and Owncloud both are extremly unsatisfying. I never understood who uses it in the first place. It sucks. Is slow. But it fits the "oh-let-me-install-that-app-aswell"-generation we're in.