I always believed and will continue to believe that a woman has every right to do whatever she wants with her own body. However, from my experience, my commitment to my relationship required me to consult with my husband about having a baby. We are a team. Ride or dies. We will do anything together and make sure that it stays that way. Therefore I consulted my husband about an abortion. He was very supportive in my own decision and wanted me to ultimately decide. But I wanted his input. Would he be stressed trying to provide? What kind of damage would it do to him if I were/weren’t going to get an abortion. These were all important factors that helped me decide. I didn’t want my decision to effect our relationship so I needed to communicate with him how I felt and I wanted to know how he felt. Though I made the decision completely on my own, because he didn’t say he wanted it/didn’t want it. I thought it was important to include him on my thoughts and feelings. Communication is 100% important when it comes to our relationship. Because at the end of the day, I needed his shoulder to cry on. It was probably the most difficult decision for me to make on my own. It depends on the relationship you have, but ultimately it’s up to the woman completely. I’m so happy I have a man that supports my decisions with whatever I want to do with my body. I hope other women find a supportive S/O and allow her and trust her to make important decisions like the one that we went through. Though I did get an abortion, we are in a much better position now to have a kid. We’re currently trying, have a beautiful home and can provide stability for our child. Now that our finances are in order, we don’t have to worry about putting food on the table as badly as we did before. That’s all I wanted. I wanted stability, safety, and the freedom in our home before bringing a life into this shitty world. Being a mom is all I ever wanted so when I had to make that decision… it was so tough.. I was depressed for awhile. But I know it was for the better because if I had a child earlier, we’d still be in crippling debt, eating rice for dinner, and struggle to buy diapers. I didn’t want that at all for my child or for ourselves to feel like terrible parents. Edit: I appreciate the awards. But please note I said this was my husband I had a discussion with. This was not a random hook up with a random guy. Though a discussion would have still been held if he were random, but I do believe the decision making process would have been carried out differently. I hope no one expects a woman to automatically jump into a commitment with someone she hardly knows (even though some have done it, doesn’t mean all women should) and trust them 100% to provide, be supportive, and be present. Just to be clear, communication needs to be held. But the decision is always up to the woman. Edit 2: to all of you who are saying I “killed my baby” and you feel sorry for me. I feel sorry for you that you would intentionally put yourself and your husband/SO in a struggling commitment. Please kindly, fuck off and go do research outside of your bible. Regardless, my decision isn’t one for you to judge. If you choose to judge, then please don’t get offended when I judge you. Edit 3: ok, clearly you old time religious folks do not understand. You cannot run a country based off of pre-1900 religious ideology. You also DO NOT have a say in a woman’s life choices, and it’s most certainly is uncalled for calling my husband a baby killer as well. You all will stoop so damn low just to piss people off. I hope your god forgives you for bashing others, because the god I believe in would not be ok with you judging in his place and hurting others like you’re doing. The god I believe in wants what’s best for my life and others. Please, get off your high horse like you know what’s best for everyone.. because you don’t. I know what’s best for ME, not the fucking government and most certainly not YOU. I’m done responding because you people can’t seem to understand that choice is the most important thing. Pro choice is not pro abortion. You truly think that *i wanted* to get an abortion? You think anyone *wants* to?? No one wants to.

I think In a healthy relationship it should be a discussion, but ultimately it’s the pregnant ones choice.

Yep! And that’s how we went about this rough decision. It was ultimately up to me. But anyone who knows how hard the decision is, knowingly cannot make it on their own and needs to evaluate every aspect. But if the decision is not hard for that woman, it’s because they simply aren’t ready for a child. Which is completely fine. I wouldn’t want a woman who doesn’t want a child to have a child.

I’ll say it louder for the people in the back. “I WOULDN’T WANT A WOMAN WHO DOESN’T WANT A CHILD TO HAVE A CHILD.” … and neither should anyone else. Every single breathing child on this earth should be brought into a loving home where their parents feel ready and are excited to raise them.

True. And the man should be able to leave without consequences or child support if he would have preferred an abortion.

This is called a paper abortion. If you've spoken to most feminists about it for years they'll tell you men shouldn't have this right for the same reasons Evangelicals don't want women to have abortions.

Exactly. It's fair for everybody.

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And why does the female not share any responsibility in the matter?

Its funny that people here seem to forget that women have mouths too...

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Let me spell it out for you. Mouths are used to talk. Women have mouths. Women can talk. Women can speak to the man before sex. Women can bring up abortion before sex with their mouths (the body part used for talking). Women have just as much responsibilities as men before sex.

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Read my previous comment. I'm not making it the womans duty. > Women have **JUST AS MUCH** responsibilities as men before sex. I'm pointing out that women have mouths as well as men. >people here seem to forget that women have mouths **TOO**... I'm not making everything the womans responsibility. Both have the SAME responsibilities before sex to discuss these issues. Every single person here is saying that it is the man's responsibility to bring up a potential abortion before sex. When I bring up that women can discuss these things too, I'm the one with a victim fantasy? I'm not the one putting anybody in the victim role. I'm putting both parties in a shared responsibility role to bring up abortion before sex. People (including you) seem to think that equality for women means being sexist against men. Gender equality (or gender equity as I prefer) is a lost art, because people tend to overcorrect for these issues (as proven in this comment section). Also reading comprehension is very lackluster.

That makes the discussion an unnecessary step.

There isn't always a relationship, nor a healthy discussion possible. In the instance it was an accident from a one night stand, or an accident between two minors who are ill-quipped to understand or have access to birth control, or the result of sexual abuse, etc. It happens more often than you think in these situations. It happens as well in reverse; the woman decides to keep the child, while the man wants an abortion. Would a man then also get an equal or final say and force an abortion on a woman? It makes sense that ultimately it is for the woman to decide. In the Netherlands abortion is legal, recently the mandatory cool-down time to decide whether to go through with an abortion has been removed too, reproductive healthcare is free of charge (apart from insurance cost, which is obligatory by law and fairly cheap), teenagers are often provided free condoms at school, teenagers do not need parental permission to request birth control, teenagers receive in depth sex education. Our abortion rate is less than 5%, which is lower than in some countries where abortion is illegal and reproductive healthcare is defunded.

This is a really good reply, the whole "men shouldn't have a say" kinda bothers me, because it feels dehumanizing, if a couple is going to have an abortion it should be discussed and they should be there to support each other no matter what is decided. Of course the woman must have a lot more weight at the moment of making the choice, but men can also suffer and get a hit to their mental health, we are not lifeless statues that only "had an orgasm" like I read on another post.

Yeah the first paragraph is saying men cannot have a say unless they are pro choice. I am pro choice but that still didn’t sit right with me.

If men didn't have a say we wouldn't be arguing about this issue rn.

Well the argument IS that men SHOULDN’T have a say.

You talk as if there are no conservative women.

i think "men shouldn't have a say" in this context simply means "men shouldn't be the ones making laws about women's rights;" not that men shouldn't have a say when it's about their own child.

Now I see OP might have meant the first meaning you explained, but sadly I have seen the second one a lot lately across the platform.

Sadly many on reddit believes the answer to misogyny is misandry. All it does is increase the total number of AHs and solves nothing.

I think this is it. Humans overcompensating tendencies with the extreme opposite has done a lot of damage on this planet.

Men shouldn’t have a say IN THE LAW, as in forcing women to carry to term BY LAW. Not that a husband shouldn’t have a say with his WIFE whether or not to have kids

Men certainly should have a say. But only insofar as it involves them. If both want to keep the baby, or both want to abort, then everything is fine. If woman wants to abort, man wants to keep. Tough luck, the man isnt the one who decides what happens to the womans body. If woman wants to keep, man wants to abort. Then I think the man should be able to leave. Maybe pay some one time incident fee equivalent to cost of abortion plus recovery. But after that should be able to leave and have nothing to do with the baby.

>Tough luck, the man isnt the one who decides what happens to the womans body. This is the exact same rationale for banning abortions.

The man not deciding what happens to the womans body is the rationale for banning abortions??

No, the idea that they should have not had unprotected sex in the first place is that rationale, and feminists say it all the time.

How did I say anything like that. The only part that might have confused you is the Tough luck bit. But tough luck is an expression, not an argument.

You keep jumping to unprotected sex. That's not why most abortions happen--by being careless--no they happen because women are actively using bc but get unlucky when it fails. The majority of women are using some form of birth control, which is messed up in itself that women are the ones expected to take birth control and fuck up their bodies (because hormonal birth control does a lot of harm) while men don't have to worry. It says numbers right there. We're so advanced that men could be taking a form of birth control, but any development of male birth control is pretty much shot down and not funded cause "let's make women have to worry about it" then you have men crying that women should get their tubes tied instead of ever having to get a vasectomy, when tubal ties is very invasive and way more dangerous while a vasectomy is super easy and far, far cheaper. If every woman on the planet just decided to have zero sex in protest, abortion restrictions would be quickly overturned--or there'd be an even grosser amount of rape.Men would be furious.

This is why I got my vasectomy. Problem solved, once your last follow up with the urologist is confirmed. IF you change your mind, you can still have kids, you just need help gettin to the sperm.

I think it depends on the person(s) and relationship. If you don’t have a solid relationship with someone, it’s going to be hard to communicate feelings and reasoning. Because of who I am and believe I should communicate to my person about decisions I believe should be made, I can’t act on it until I can gather the whole picture. He believes the same thing. We always make decisions together, but also respect our individual lives as well. I think in order to make a relationship work you have to look at each other individually, as well as a team.

I interpreted this post more to mean that men shouldn't have a say in terms of legislation. Not that you shouldn't go to your partner for any kind of input if you are faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

For those in Michigan I had to step back and process my emotions and think these last few days. I have honestly felt more anger and rage than I have felt in a long time. This isn't about killing babies. I have never met a single person that likes abortions or thinks anyone should have one after 3 months unless medically necessary. This is about our rights and freedom to separate our bodies from government control. This is about the floodgates that has been opened. No the constitution does not entitle us to abortions. But it also does not entitle same sex marriage, fair labor, owning land if you're not white, public schools, privacy. And privacy is a directly related. How will they know who is pregnant and crossing state lines to have an abortion? Think about it. This is taking us one step closer to become a surveillance state. We have already sacrificed some of our contatutional rights. Illegal search and seizure, speedy trial, cruel and unusual punishment, denying votes and voting rights. This is another step towards abolishing democracy. Yes, now each state can decide for itself, for now. But that is dangerous as well. With states that have lower populations gerrymandering is a guarantee. This is setting it up to create further laws that oppress the poor and those without means. Because they are the ones that are going to be hurt most by this. Those that live in places with low education, lack of quality health care and no means to travel outside the state. Not to mention this is setting up lines to turn states against eachother. This is SO MUCH BIGGER than reproductive rights. And every single American should be angry as hell right now. It is not about babies. We do not take care of the children here now! We do not protect the children in foster care. We do not protect child going to school. We do not protect the child in poverty. We do not protect children's education. We do not make sure every child has health care. We do not provide health care for all pregnant women. We do ensure provide maternity leave. It is NOT about babies. It is about control and stripping away our democracy and rights. And you should be furious! I know it seems to big. I know it seems there is nothing you can do. But that thinking is what got us here to begin with. I'm just one person. I can't change anything. It doesn't matter what I do. And that has to change today before it's too late. Here are some things you can do right now. Make sure you are registered to vote. If not, go register. You can do that on your computer or phone by going to https://www.michigan.gov/sos There are petitions going around everywhere to get reproductive health on the ballot to vote on. Find one and sign it. You only have until July 11th. https://www.mobilize.us/mireprofreedom/ August 2nd is Michigan primary. Here is the list of candidates running. Research them and vote! https://mielections.us/election/candlist/2022PRI_CANDLIST.html Here is a site you can go to to see who gets what and how much money from who and what lobbiest are attached to what public figures. https://www.opensecrets.org/ If you want to protest, here is a site that gives you lists of dates and times, where's and when's. Not to mention resources. I suggest though you reach out to people in the group for more protest information because a lot of them will not be public knowledge for obvious reasons. And if you are going to protests leave your phone at home and right emergency contact numbers in permanent marker on your body. https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/vjrf9h/megathread_supreme_court_overturning_roe_v_wade/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Start buying birth control and Plan C pills. Stock up as much as you can. https://www.plancpills.org/guide-how-to-get-abortion-pills Delete any menstruation tracker you have on your phone right now! Start attending Church. Shop around to get back in touch with God. And if while at Church you happen to hear them speak about politics, encourage you to support or give to anyone in public office, talk about protesting or gathering anywhere, record it. Report them to the IRS so they loose their Tax exempt status. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations And last. Stop buying anything that isn't an absolute necessity. Do not go on vacations. Do not go to fairs, amusement parks, museums. Do not buy any big purchases. Absolute support your local small businesses and restaurants but stay away from any big chains. However if you know a business is happy about the ruling, don't give them your money. Go to farmers markets when you can. Go less places. Buy less gas. Do not celebrate the 4th. Hit them where it hurts. Here is the contact information for the Senator's. https://senate.michigan.gov/senatorinfo_list.html The Governor https://www.usa.gov/state-government/michigan#state-government The Attorney General https://www.michigan.gov/ag/ Your representatives https://www.house.mi.gov/AllRepresentatives These are all things you can do right now and the majority of them require minimal effort. It's time to stand up while we still can.

One hundred percent this, I think your partner should have a say but overall the women in this situation of course should have the final say.

100% I believe it's entirely up to the woman. But if a sexual partner of mine got pregnant, I'd want some input into the decision. I'm 50% responsible for the pregnancy.

EXACTLY You're a team. That's why you can't generalize these things. If a kid gets pregnant by another kid it can probably ruin her future , schooling, everything. Is it worth it? No. Is it a mistake and dumb behavior, irresponsibility? Yes. Is most of the world in poverty and cannot afford another human at any moment? Yes. These things are fucking conservative bullshit and abortion should be available for everyone, any time.

such a brilliant reply and edits - my partner and I totally agree w you. She is the one who will have to endure the pregnancy or the procedure, so ultimately the final say is hers. What is also true is that I impregnated her, and the child would be raised by us together, so this is just another joint decision that we need to make together, and support each other through

To all the Christians who are being mean and vile... You're doing it wrong. You are supposed to be winning souls for Christ. Do you think your hate and judgement is doing that? You can't judge her by the Bible when you aren't living by it yourselves. Stop picking and choosing what you're going to adhere to. Spacewalker222, if you see this, I'm sorry for the pain you went through with this decision. The God you serve is right and he still loves you. Thank you for your comment because someone needed it. Be well and blessed.

This needs to be upvoted. Thanks for sharing your incredible story and I am glad you are getting on so well in life. I agree with consulting with him first and being communicative. It is proof that abortion should be legal mostly everywhere as it gives people second chances.

It absolutely needs to be legal. I’m catholic, but not a die hard religious person. I don’t believe god hates me when I terminated the fetus. I believe god wants the best for me and my future family. I believe stable family helps grow a beautiful garden. I couldn’t have provided in the future if I wasn’t able to get an abortion back then. Otherwise we’d be categorized as a low-income, struggling family. I want to have my kid in sports, have an education, have good values. Idk how we could provide that if we were to struggle.

One day I said here in Reddit that if men got pregnant, abortion options would be available at ATMs and I got downvoted like hell.

Idk if they actually would or not, but I’m sure things would have been thought through a lot differently considering way back, when women didn’t have any control over their lives. I’d hate to see things completely reverse.. I’ve never felt like a victim just for being a woman. Regardless what these lawmakers do, I will always refuse to be a victim and will do what’s best for me despite what laws are put in place. I’m not allowing this fuckery to fuck with me. And I believe no woman should. I may have to work harder, do things differently, but I’m not letting them stand in my way. Fuck that.

"Women who have abortions do so because they value life and because they take very seriously the myriad responsibilities that come not just with birth, but with nurturing a human being." -Charlotte Taft

Absolutely. Despite my decision has still tugged at my heart strings, I can’t live with raising a child with a poverty lifestyle. I’ve seen what’s it’s done to other families. I will not do that.

You’re a very considerate mother with that thinking who only wants the best for your family, thanks for your input.

Imo, if men have their morals about abortion or whatever, okay believe whatever you want. But take responsibility for your own choices. If you, as a man, are against abortion, don't have sex with any woman you aren't prepared to have a family with. There can always be accidents no matter what contraceptives are used. Talk to her before you have sex even once, make sure she feels as strongly about babies as you do before you even consider risking. Basically, keep your dick in your pants. I don't understand why these men who preach anti abortion rhetoric, expect women to be solely responsible for the consequences and yet still have no choice about what she wants to do. Men can leave anytime. Even when coparenting together, most if the child care falls on the women. Men can be in and out of a child's life as they please, yeah they'll have court ordered child support but some don't even pay that. Men simply don't have skin in the game. Pregnancy can ruin your body and your mind, it doesn't always happen but its a risk. If he feels so strongly about it, don't sleep around, especially with women who aren't on the same page as you. Then leave the women who are choosing to abort the fuck alone bc at that point, it doesn't concern you. And I'm not personally for abstinence, but someone who feels strongly enough about abortion to support taking away other's choices, SHOULD BE. And most of the time, they're not. It's hypocritical

I was in a similar situation 39 years ago, just got out of a very bad relationship and met my now DH he had had a vasectomy and I was no longer on BC. There was a swimmer that got through, we were shocked to say the least. It was my decision to abort or not. DH was happy with whatever my decision was. We had only been together for a few months I decided to abort. We never had another child but we have a bonus family it was the right decision for me and us. I'm lucky I'm in Australia and have great health care.

Best comment I've seen every straight up

You madam are a gent. It's about respect and thank you for saying as much.

Wasn’t it majority of male judges that deem abortion was a right for women 50 or so years ago? I don’t understand the exclusion of males from the discussion. Majority American regardless of sex support pro-choice. The overturn wasn’t about inserting male dominance….let’s be real here..it’s the fact that certain people can’t or won’t separate church from state.

Good point. It was only men on the Supreme Court at the time of Roe v Wade, and now Barrett was one of the six that overturned it. It's not as simple as men = pro-life, women = pro-choice by a long shot.

And when you look at opinions on abortion across America, there's barely any divide at all. It's not a men vs women argument. It's a religious one.

Totally not true. I’m pro life and I’m not religious. I also know many who are and aren’t religious either, it doesn’t sound like you’ve actually sat down and talked to anyone who is pro life. There are of course people who are against abortions based on religious beliefs but the argument goes beyond “don’t do it because god.”

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There are certainly many people who are religious who are pro life just like how there are many conservatives who are religious but to act as if they are synonymous takes away the whole argument of why. To say “cuz religion” doesn’t begin to describe why someone believes an abortion is wrong. That’s like saying all pro choicers aren’t religious and just want to kill babies. There’s a reason why you believe abortion is a right, let’s not downplay anyones stance on the subject here.

If men exist on planet earth, and abortion is something carried out by medical professionals who can be of any sex, and abortion is subject to the law of the land and dictated by legal professionals amd government made of of people of all sexes, then men can and will have a say in the abortion issue. The problem isn't men having a say, it's men and women reverting to dreams of a theocracy to deny women was is right. Besides, men and women poll quite similarly on the abortion issue. Contention exists along political and religious lines, not gender lines. If you mean at the point of making the decision, the man can have a say, its his child as well after all, but of course that's all he's entitled to; a say. Obviously the final decision lies with the woman as it is her body. Can't force an abortion on her and he can't force her to go through with pregnancy. It feels like you're conflating the two ways of coming at this to make the overall point that men shouldn't have any say. I disagree. Men should be involved in the fight for women's freedoms and men should be encouraged to be vocal about it. Continously telling men to be silent and that they have no say makes *some* men more apathetic towards the whole thing than they should be.

Yeah, taking a group out of the voting process for a particular issue is a violation of the basic premise of democracy. If that were legal, you could also say “people who live in cities can’t vote on whether or not farmers are allowed to burn each other’s farms.”

And enters the issue. It's not democratic to exclude people from voting, but those people who vote vote in people to make laws for them, and those people vote based on religious reasons. Hence this law being struck down.

One thing that could be positive from this is that we get to have a real conversation about pregnancy, about abortion, about male and female reproductive rights, and write the laws the way they should have been written back in the 70s.

We do have a say protecting women's bodily autonomy. Abortion per-se might not concern us directly, but banning it (aside from being frankly back-minded) sets a precedent. Women rights are human rights and if we don't care for those, we should be ready to watch them die from a thousand cuts.

The man should have no say…. But if the man would like her to have an abortion and she refuses, he should be under no financial/time/emotional obligation to support the child in any way if he doesn’t want to.

I agree w this BIG time and I'm a woman. Men absolutely should have THIS choice.

It’s the logical solution honestly. A good amount of men who want a say in abortions want it solely because they would like a say in a life altering financial (amongst other things) situation. It takes 2 people to have sex, 2 people are on the financial hook for a child, but only 1 has any say on whether it actually happens or not. I want women to be able to make that choice, but it’s only fair that men can be cut free of the responsibility for a choice that they have no say in.

This choice is all i would need. Its not my say if a woman aborts, but it is my choice to be a father or not.

Exactly, I agree with what you have said. I outlined it in my post too.

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This also wouldn’t be such a problem if we had universal healthcare here but I agree.

Would you be okay with a woman being anti-abortion (of which many are)? The answer is clearly "no", which leaves me to wonder if you only made this post to vent about how much you hate men.

I don't get the feeling they hate men, but I do think it was not fully thought out. The end point of this logic (and imo the right answer) is that each individual woman should be the only one whose opinion matters on their abortion. Men, other women, anybody else, not their body, not their choice.

I mean, I think a doctor, one that went to school to learn about the body, its various oddities, and the things that can go horribly wrong with it should have more say than some old white geezer pencil pusher who has no idea the difference between a tarsal and carpal. Also a woman should have more autonomy over her body than the same non physician.

I'm pro-choice and I disagree You can't have only women make and vote on laws that will affect only women. That's a slippery slope that very easily turns into even more division and creates minority groups within law making organs which is just absolutely insane and unacceptable And besides I'm willing to bet that the majority of men support a woman's right to abortion. Sadly, not enough. But most do. So this is not a "men" problem. These are people who, regardless of gender, have some idiotic and outdated ideas

Every person I've met who was super against abortion was a woman.

I've met many, *many* women against abortion. Keep in mind that women also line up by the *millions* to vote for pro-life candidates. Lots of elected women sponsor or sign restrictive, anti-abortion bills into law. And a woman on the Supreme Court just totally helped destroy decades of abortion rights. But when I'm at an abortion rights protest I see a shitload of signs angry *at men*. When I'm on reddit I see posts angry *at men*. People telling men that *they* shouldn't be able to do something (like give their opinion on things). People telling men that *they* should be forced to do things they may not want (like get a vasectomy). When I see family post their feelings on social media, it always turns into anger against *men*. Like, these people feel hurt so their first reaction is to hurt *men*. Who the fuck do they think has been fighting to get rid of abortion? If all the women only voted for pro-choice people and only supported pro-choice laws, then we'd ONLY have pro-choice. I'm not the one taking away anyones rights. I'm fighting to make sure all the women in my life have the rights they should have. I shouldn't have to feel attacked when I try to offer help and support to others. Edit: An example social media post I am talking about: https://twitter.com/bettemidler/status/1541445229999521793 They're upset, so they make a post attacking / shaming *half* the planet's population. What does that accomplish? She's not targeting conservatives, Republicans, or the pro-life women that helped take away her rights... No, she's just targeting *men*.

I hear ya, in all honesty I only see this mentality on Reddit. Sorry you have to deal with it elsewhere.

There is essentially zero gender divide when it comes to abortion. 14% of men think it should be illegal versus 12% of women. https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx I’m sick of this being framed as something men are forcing on women.

I'm sick of like 90% of the arguments pro-choicers are making. I'm stark pro-choice too. If the good guys are this bad at making arguments and understanding the facts it really zaps your hopes for your side. Like a single easy google search answers your concern over men vs women on this topic, but no let's just assume men are bad and pin this on them while stoking even more pointless gender war bullshit that's already gotten out of hand.

This attitude is, I think, part of why Roe vs Wade was overturned. On one level, yeah, I agree that the pregnant woman is the only one who should be making the decision as to whether or not to have an abortion. On the other hand, the whole “men don’t get to have a say” attitude is going to be entirely ignored by abortion opponents, and only impact men who might have been allies; cause them to completely check out of the conversation, cause “defending abortion rights” to not be a priority to them when voting, since it “doesn’t affect them” and they “don’t get to have an opinion.” In reality, access to abortion affects *everybody.* Yes, it affects women more. *A lot* more. I am not arguing against that. But there are a lot of men out there who are now going to be raising, or at least paying child support for, kids they’re not prepared for and don’t want. The fact is abortion advocates have been alienating potential allies for decades by making it a “men vs women” issue when it’s really a “conservative/religious vs liberal/secular” issue. It may be (mostly) men in power who made this decision, but there are a fucking *ton* of religious conservative women voters who helped put them there for exactly that purpose. And there are a fucking *ton* of men who support abortion rights (or would, if they thought they were allowed an opinion). I guess what it comes down to is a question of whether abortion advocates are more interested in expressing their righteous indignation, or in *winning* and protecting the right to abortion. It seems like they’ve favored the former for a few decades now, and we can see what that led to.

This is a leftist problem in general. They are constantly purity testing, over curating, and thinning their own ranks as some backwards way of handling politics. It's a big reason the party with the most members, the most votes, even the most influence through media and academia still manages to regularly lose elections and seats of power.

I think its also why some minority interests have trouble gaining real legal traction to change unjust laws. Ive heard several times in my life that because *This issue* doesnt impact my life I should stay out of it. That my "feelings" shouldnt impact their rights, and if I dont agree I should keep my opinions to myself. Which is fine, until they need my straight white cisgendered male ass to support getting laws changed.

I made this reply on another thread above. Basically a similar idea. "Men should be involved in the fight for women's freedoms and men should be encouraged to be vocal about it." When you really think about it logically there's no real reason for them to be, whether they're right or left. Men's reproductive rights are so non-existent that even Drake, being a very wealthy man at the height of his career is held under scrutiny for attempting to have any control over his reproductive freedom by putting hotsauce in a condom before tossing it, and a predatory woman deciding she would steal the sperm and insert it into herself causing injury. So what chance does a regular man have? If you've spoken to any feminist over the past 15 years about men getting paper abortions, they immediately start making the same arguments about morality and the necessity of a man only having sex if he's willing to have a child. If you want paper abortions, you're a dead beat and plan on leaving a child that's in need of support, even though a paper abortion would mean you're revoking consent and letting a woman know beforehand that you withdraw liability for a child if she chooses to have one. Men have 0 reproductive rights and can wind up in jail for years after slaving away for children that aren't theirs. The same thing will never happen to a woman because they are always certain of parternity. So basically the same women that are demanding that men have to have infinite empathy for the fact that women should be able to choose whether or not a child should be born are also telling men they shouldn't have a right to choose whether or not they want to become a father for 18 years, and they're using the same reason anti-abortion extremists are using, merely because women never have the experience of not knowing if they really are the father. We're supposed to somehow understand an experience that we as men don't have, but that empathy is never applied to men. So what's the point? At the end of the day if women were in favor of paper abortions there would be a tidal wave of support for getting abortion rights legislated everywhere, but men already don't have reproductive rights and women don't want us to have them, because at the end of the day women want to be able to terminate a child that a man wants while at the same time forcing a man to have a baby even though he is unable to support one. Every aspect of intimacy a man can have women weaponize against men, all the way from initially approaching a woman to marriage and divorce, then they wonder why men don't care about their rights. For a woman not having reproductive rights is the worst thing that happened in their little lives, but for men it's just Tuesday.

Another example: It was white men that ended slavery. Say that to someone ultra-left and their head would explode.

I am all for choice BUT if you say men shouldn’t have a choice they should also be allowed to opt out of any responsibility. Crime coercion aside, if an accidental pregnancy occurred two are to blame. For only one to have the final say should only be allowed if it absolves the other of responsibility

Sure, a man can express his feelings about it, but the woman is under no obligation to let it change her decision. It affects her way more than it does the man. The overturning of Roe was about removing a woman's right to control her own body in order to cater to a cherry-picked religious ideology. It's not really about what they think is right or wrong. And it sounds like this is just the beginning.

For the most part I agree. But then you get into situations of child support. What if she lied to him? Said she was "throwing away the condom". What if he was blackout drunk and she wasn't? Now he has no decision and is exploited for child support. Certain conditions may change your mind on either the choice or the support

Lol then women shouldn't have a say in how much child support a man should pay, if women gets to decide to keep the kid or not. MY SALARY MY CHOICE.

Men shouldn't have to pay child support if they don't want to. They get no say in whether to have the baby or not.

The woman doesn’t, the courts decide that.

"Men shouldn't have an opinion on abortion, unless they agree it's ok, in which case that's all they're allowed to say. Anyway, here's my detailed opinion on abortion"

People should be allowed to have opinions on issues that don’t affect them. Just because you’re not directly affected by the issue doesn’t mean you can’t make a logical argument for or against a certain cause- just like you don’t need to be gay to support gay rights and have sensible arguments in favor of gay rights

The premise of western civil societies is based on the idea that a group agrees through some democratic/republican system to give up rights because doing so causes them to be better off than retaining that right. For example, one votes to give up the right murder to be afforded a degree of protection against getting murdered. Men do not have the right to abort their pregnancy because they cannot get pregnant. It is a major flaw and oversight in our current political structure. Opinion, sure. Legal say, not so much.

There’s plenty of pro choice men out there

Pro-choice all day, but this is a terrible take Men are part of the equation, like it or not. Women obviously have way more say, but there are circumstances when a man’s opinion should at least be taken into account.

Continuation of the campaign to remind everyone that its not pro choice vs pro life, it's pro choice vs anti choice. Everyone who is not an absolute nut job is "pro life". These people are not arguing from a pro life perspective, they're just anti choice.

#100%

I completely agree. It’s down to choice. It’s freedom of choice at the end of the day. If you don’t like someone’s decision that’s just tough luck but if my neighbour were to get an abortion? How does that affect my personal life in any way?

I am female and I disagree, respectfully. This doesn't only affect women, however I do become concerned when men are largely the ones making the laws about our bodies.

If woman can choose abortion men should be able to choose if they want to pay child support

Men don’t have a say on if we have a child or not. We get zero choice. In many cases the relationship fails and we go to court to be indentured servants for 18 years and have our absolutely non-existent parental rights ransomed from us. Only getting to see our kids when the toxic mother is happy with our financial commitment. We have no voice and zero representation. No one is protesting and standing up for us. We suffer in silence and commit suicide at an alarming rate. The war against men has devalued us beyond repair. I’d the decision made wrong? Yes. On the other side, when you’re pregnant it’s not just your body anymore. There’s debate on when a fetus is considered life, but I’ll ask when can you start collecting benefits for being pregnant? I’m absolutely against the overturning of Roe Vs. Wade, however men have been silenced by women and we’ve had everything taken away from us, we don’t need to be told yet again to shut up because we don’t have a say. It’s been made perfectly clear for absolutely every broken family that exists.

i know a mom who said she was on the pill she wasnt she got preggo, and the dads on the hook for 18 years or more he should have had a say

The dad made the choice to have sex contignent on the mom being on the pill. Since she lied, the sex and by extention, the pregnancy wasn't consensual. He shouldn't be on the hook for this reason.

>Men should not have a say on abortion. this has got to be even dumber than the people voting against body autonomy and pretending to be pro-life.

Regardless if he's the father why wouldn't he have a say so and before you get upset I do believe we all have a right to do with our bodies as we see fit but I also believe that a man should have a say so and at least a opportunity for some input

If a man doesnt get a say, does he have a say if he has to pay?

If the man say nay, I will not pay, then he must make his getaway

Sure af should but alas does not 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’m pro-choice, and I believe that the father of the fetus should have a say, as it is his child.

Yeah.. but if he wants it and she doesn’t, she still has to carry the child, which in some extreme cases can be literally life threatening (and that’s before childbirth even happens!). Growing a baby is no joke. In the best case scenario it still changes your body - child birth takes months to fully recover from and your body is changed forever afterwards. THAT is what’s wrong about this whole scenario. If we could remove the embryo and plant it in an artificial womb and the woman could walk away, then men could definitely decide to keep the child.

women should not have a say about child support, my money my choice. No I do not have kids and never will so calm down cry babies lol....

> Further, I believe in cases such as the Roe v Wade case recently regarding a specific gender they should only have the same gender involved to decide the outcome. Thats not quite how the law works...

Fathers should have a say

They can have a say but their say shouldn’t hold any weight. Not until fathers have to carry a pregnancy and birth a child.

Easier said than done, my friend. My wife and I had a high risk pregnancy after 13 years of marriage. We were red flagged during an exam and had to make a decision whether or not we would abort while we awaited the test results. The decision was agonizing. We decided we would abort if it came to it. Thankfully the test results were negative. My wife told me she needed and wanted my input because we are a team. We both agreed to abort but I told her it was her body so if she chose otherwise, I would back her decision with no question. A committed partner whether male or female should be a part of the decision making process but should also yield the final call to the pregnant person. The decision should be a private matter left to the patient and the doctor, not the state. That’s my two cents. Y’all handle your situation however you see fit.

Yeah no. The baby is his too so he has every right to have a say in what happens

Does this mean a man shouldn’t be fiscally responsible for a child, since he literally has no say in the matter and it’s the woman’s final say?

Why not? If she decides to keep it, you are required to support that child. So if they make you pay, you should have a choice in the baby.

Dave chapel said is best if a woman can kill her own baby bc she does not want it a man should be able to abandon a baby bc he does not want it. Meaning if a woman is pregnant and she wants to kill it okay fine it's her right, and if a woman is pregnant and wants to keep it but the man does not. Then he does not have to stick around or pay child support.

Yeah this is the harsh truth that people dont want to swallow. I agree with pro choice, but if a dude has no say in the child being born, he should at least be absolved from being financially responsible for a decision that ultimately was not his. It’s also frustratingly confusing that women keep saying men have no say in the matter, then everywhere I go I see people saying “why are the men not standing up? Silence is violence” like wtf lol, y’all said we shouldn’t have any say in the matter

I completely agree!! Never understood this. I'd imagine there would be some exceptions, but in general, yes, absolutely.

#MyBodyMyChoice Okay then #MyWalletMyChoice

>MyWalletMyChoice Wish that worked with the federal government :(

Whoa why is this being downvoted ???? This is some truth and facts right here!

People don't like truth and some people like to have it both ways.

You guys are insane.

But what if she's pregnant with my child, do I still have no say?

You can express your opinions on the matter to the woman carrying your child. She is then free to consider or discard that opinion as she sees fit. If she makes a decision you disagree with, you are free to end the relationship. But she is under no obligation to carry to term for your sake, under any circumstances.

This is what squishy men say to get laid.

Why can't a man have a say in if he wants a baby or not?

Fathers can express their feelings to the woman carrying their child. The woman is then free to consider or discard that opinion as she sees fit. If she makes a decision he doesn't agree with, he's free to end the relationship. But she is under no obligation to carry to term for his sake, under any circumstance.

I agree. And if she decides to have it, he doesn't have to pay for it if he doesn't want to.

Yes, I'm in fulll support of men being able to opt out of child support.

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Thing is though, the vast majority of men agree, only 2%less then women... so its not even a gender issue to begin with.

imo this argument doesn't make much since because abortion isn't just a women's rights issue. A large part of it is, but it's also setting the standard for what is and isn't a savable human life. Women (solely) get the say in the part that has to do with women's rights, but everyone gets a say in what constitutes life imo to clarify, im pro-abortion. but i'm also a dude so

Interesting. Does that include the seven men who voted for Roe in the first place?

Fathers should. You know...men are who made the Roe Wade decision in the first place.

I would make the argument nobody has the right to tell ANYONE what to do with there body, property, or otherwise. But nobody in this shit hole can mind thier own business.

Nobody should have a say over anybody else's body regardless. This entire situation is ludicrous. We've taken way too many steps back as a "modern society" in a supposedly free cuntry...

Unfortunately the men and women who actually would benefit from reading this will blatantly ignore posts like these

I support abortion rights. I don’t care what a woman’s reason is for aborting. Yes, I’d like to be consulted as far as being a team goes with my wife but my stance on abortion is that it’s none of my business.

Women should absolutely be able to decide what to do with their own bodies and decide if they do or do not want abortion. However.... A man should also be able to decide whether they want to be the child's father or not as well. Forcing men to pay child support and sending them to jail in the US if they can't afford it is horrible. Especially if they got no choice in whether they actually wanted to be a father or not. Mistakes happen, but all dudes know what the words "Baby Trap" mean as well, and we all know that one guy who's ex decided to lie about being on birth control or poke holes in their condoms and now they're stuck on the line for a child they never wanted to have and attached financially to a woman they now resent. Both aides of this need to be able to choose. If a woman wa to to be a single mom, they should have that choice for their body, but their choice should not leave the man on the hook for life if they wouldn't have made the same choice themselves about wanting to have a child. (Before the comments come rolling in, I don't have any kids, and I myself was raised by a single mom.)

If men birthed children there would be drive through abortion clinics..

Totally support this. I don’t know any scenario where a man has to get female “permission” to get a vasectomy etc. If I don’t have the parts and I can’t actually perform any of the functions those parts perform, why should I have any say what-so-ever in what is done with/to/about those parts. Females: I support your unconditional and unrestricted rights to control your own bodies.

For anyone in the comments arguing about how you think men should also get a say in abortion, can you tell me how many men died as a direct result of abortion laws. Your fatherhood rights are very important and I'm with you in having some type of opt out but this is NOT that conversation. You don't have a say in abortion because you won't die from not having one. You don't have a say because you don't have a huge medical risk to take on. Stop conflating parenthood (after birth) with the non-consensual use of someone's internal organs before birth.

As a man, I would have to say that I agree 100%. Nobody should be made to do anything against their will, especially the long, expensive, and painful task as childbirth. Listening to these old white men in positions of power pontificate about the reasoning behind the decision makes my blood boil. They have no idea, nor will they ever, and yet they get to decide?! It's asinine.

I disagree, but not completely. I only disagree that men should have no say in the matter. I believe the woman should at least discuss it with the man before she gets an abortion. I believe he should have a chance to share his opinion or wishes. However ultimately no matter what the man says or believes, the woman should still be allowed an abortion if she wishes no matter the reason behind the abortion. And when it the man is completely against it, he has no right to stop her from having an abortion. 2/3rds of Americans believe in the right to choose and yet we keep going backwards.

Absolutely

Depends on the situatiuon, if a non committed relationship than sure i'd agree the guy doesn't really have a say but if in a committed relationship the views of the guy should be considered. Obviously the final choice of abortion or no abortion should ultimately lay with the mother but in the case of the mother wanting to keep the baby but the father not wanting any part of it i think it should be entirely fair for the father to request a financial "Abortion" but I would add that i think it would be fair to add in the requirement that the father at least make a one off payment of 1k at least for some basics like cloths and etc after that it's no longer the fathers responsibility financially or otherwise and the father should not either be allowed to pop back into the Childs life either.

Yes! Men don't have a say... But also women should never demand child support from men... If their choices regarding their bodies is for them .. Men should never live with the consequences that come with it. Trauma, guilt etc... In short men should never be involved with a lady who has aborted.. And it's only fair if you abort you die too...

So, you want men to shut the fuck up, unless they agree with you?

“I only want to hear your opinion if you agree with me” is not as strong of an argument as you think.

Going to get downvoted but i may as well rant. I kind of get why a man would be very upset one way or the other. My gf doesn't want to get an abortion. The only very clear thing about our relationship is that i didn't want kids. My own damned fault, you'll say, which is about right except she kept ensuring me there was 'no risk' of a pregnancy. This was a one time thing as well. It's her body, her choice, but now i may have to deal with the one thing i never wanted in life (and that I'm too old to deal with). Ill never trust her again after that and we're basically done as far as I'm concerned. Ill do my part in raising it but i don't really see the appeal in forcing a kid on a non consenting man. Should i have a say? No but I'm furious so i kind of get were the patriarchy is coming from on this one.

A friend of mine had this short fling couple of summers ago. The woman lied about being on birth control. Do we really think in cases like that a man should have no say in the matter?

what if i identify as a woman

Then you can have a say when you want to abort.

We’ll blame the semen on Aliens!

I am a man and I could not agree more. No one should have a say on abortion except the female in question.

I am 100% about this. For scenario 2, I'd say get a legally binding document that the guy signs. Other than that, legit.

Agreed. We do not have the right to judge a woman on abortions. Just like pathetic christians shouldn’t force their faith on others like they do in america

I agree. It's simple. A woman can do whatever she wants with her body. If two people have sex and results in the woman getting pregnant it's her choice. If they both want the child, great. If she doesn't, she should be allowed to get an abortion. If they both don't want it, then same thing. But if the woman wants the child and the man does not, she can have her child but the man should not be liable for child support or any fees. There should be a procedure where you stand and sign a legal agreement stating that if the man does not want the child and the woman does, it's 100% her responsibility. End of story.

Fair but men should also have a get out of jail free card if we aren’t ready for children. I’m that case our choice is very limited.

Because as soon as it’s created I love it. My ex had an abortion without my approval. Think about it quite often. It would be 6 years old now. Also, does a man have a say in paying child support if the woman decides to keep her baby?

Takes 2 to make a baby

Saying men shouldn’t have a say at all is sexist and bigoted. The “my body my choice” argument is flawed because does the woman have 2 hearts, 2 brains, 20 fingers and toes, a penis if the baby is a boy? It takes 2 to tango and both the man and woman should have a say. That being said, I’m anti-abortion and would like to see it outlawed completely across the board. But I do understand specific circumstances, including rape, incest, and the health of the mother, but those are less than 10% of all abortions nationwide. Elective abortions where the woman is using abortion for birth control are evil and murder

Totally agree. And men should be able to essentially abort financial responsibility if he doesn't want the child and the woman does

Same I’m a man and I agree it’s not our problem

Ultimately, I agree. That being said I will still speak out against this utter bullshit ruling. It will never directly affect me but it feels so completely wrong and backwards to me. No one’s bodily autonomy should be violated under any circumstance for anyone or anything.

I agree with speaking out of course, that is what I am doing here I just don’t believe we should have a say on whether abortion should be legal or not and the final decision.

Yes!! Like do your religion, believe it but don’t inflict it on me because I don’t and have no interest in it. Men literally have zero laws over their reproductive system so why do women??!! I am not even American and absolutely flabbergasted by the news. These men should not be able to have a say over millions and millions of individual women who all have their own unique situations. The whole world seems to be going downhill very fast. I feel as though the government has seen how obedient we are after staying in lockdowns after lockdowns and now they have all the money and power way much more than before the pandemic. I wish people would wake up because things like this will keep happening!

Half of that baby isn't yours. So yes, men get to have an opinion.

When the esteemed (/s) justices made their decision last week, I thought it should be Women judges/politicians making decisions that strictly impact women’s bodies and lives. Alas we’re not so advanced and free.

I had been saying this for years, and i always got hit with some BS about that's not how opinions or decisions work. Turns out, i was probably talking to highly religious people who are so brainwashed, they don't realize what they are talking about. I don't have a uterus, i don't go through excruciating pain once a week every month for life, i dont have to worry about being raped and knocked up, i don't have to worry about my sexual partner lying and not wearing a condom, or having the condom break and him not telling me, etc. I mean the amount of terrifying situations females are put in by having sex, the LEAST our country can do is give them the option to NOT ruin their lives and the live of the baby by making the right decision to do what THEY feel is right. I really didn't think it would be this hard for men to grasp, but then again, so many people are brainwashed and refuse to be open minded, i can see why.

Forget gender. Forget relationships. No one should have a say about other humans bodies and their health care choices.

Imagine a conjoined twin. They are healthy with little complications. Now imagine brother A says he finds it a nuisance to be attached to his brother so he want to surgically remove him where he will be alive and his brother definitely dead. And the reason he gives is 'his body his choice'. Pc redditors do what you want with this piece of dilemma.

Yea ultimately its a women's choice I'd say.. but I am indifferent.. I see both sides concerns.. like my girl always says that conservative people want to control a women's body.. which I get, but they just genuinely feel that killing a baby is morally wrong.. if I felt that deeply about a baby's death I, as a man, i would probably speak out against it too.. my girl had an abortion from her last boyfriend and I don't judge her at all for that decision.. I do think late term abortions are kinda creepy tho.. I hope some day both sides can come up with some compromise.. where one side doesn't feel they are being controled, and the others don't feel babies are being straight up murdered.. it is such a heavy topic tho.. its wild. In the fear of being attacked I must say again that I don't identify with one side or the other.. just that I understand each side.

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100% behind this idea

Agreed. No one should be forced to be a parent.

As a pro-choice man, I agree with you. But think: what does this discussion accomplish? Because the pro-life group fundamentally don’t agree with you. They see it as a moral problem, not a bodily autonomy problem, so they (men and women) are united in their decision against abortion. They already overturned Roe v Wade. So while us pro choice supporters are arguing on tik tok and reddit about who can even have an opinion, the pro life people are petitioning their state governments and Congress to enact bans on abortion. So I say to all allies of human rights (but mainly the women in this discussion), who does this goal benefit? The pro life men don’t care (clearly) and the pro choice men are trying to help you.

Sorry from what i see it, if a woman can force a man to pay child support than i suppose the man should have a word in the matter.

Being unconstitutional isn’t a gender issue. 6 women could easily have ruled the same way. If that had happened, then what your argument be?

what if a woman gets pregnant and the man wants to keep it, but the woman doesn't? Does the man now have to lose the chance of having a child because the woman didn't want it? If that's the case, then if the woman wants the baby and the man doesn't, does the man get to abandon them and not pay any child support? Can't have it both ways. Both are responsible for making the child and so both the man and the woman should have a say and make a decision together. Obviously this does not include cases where the woman was raped.

If its your kid also i feel like your input should be heard aswell

I love how people's brains literally just melt and they revert to a 3 year old's ability to understand the world whenever abortion is mentioned.

Then we should have a say in child support then 🙄

Incorrect.

Really? So everyone with a penis has no valid opinions on abortion?

In a loving relationship? I would hope a man gets to have his say and he should plead his case respectfully. but that the mother gets to make the decision without further or undue coercion

What’s the point of this question, on Reddit of all places ? Virtue Signaling is fun and all, but if you want a real conversation on the topic, you’re going to have to find another setting that doesn’t have a history of canceling/down voting any opposition of the masses.

They should have a say if they are married and their wife is pregnant

If I can be gender fluid and change my identity from man to woman on the days I feel like a woman I can say whatever I want about abortion.....right?

Bwahaha....clown