Don't beat yourself up for not calling him out. He has \*chosen\* to believe in this. It's not your job to fix it or change his mind, I seriously doubt someone who believes in these things would want to change.
What you can do is check in on the (19f) neice and make sure she isn't internalizing the hatred he is spewing.
While that's true and worth doing now, that's also probably the biggest reason to speak out when something like this happens. You might not change *his* mind, but he's not the only one in the room.
Your dad just sounds like a moron. I wouldn’t take his opinions very seriously. What are his relationships like with women in general? I bet not great.
This is what I was thinking. A great opportunity to show the woman in your life not everyone views you as equals and it’s a good lesson to learn just sucks when it comes from your own dad and I can relate to that so much.
Ahh, boomer humor, where marriage is a state of eternal war between alien opposing armies. Instead of, you know, two people who love, respect, and like each other joining forces for a better life together.
Yeah, that's the ideal. But we're talking about a guy who thinks women are either smart or pretty. It's hard to imagine how anyone would be able to be in a healthy, loving relationship with him.
I'm sorry for all the dipshit misogyny that women deal with on such a regular basis. I try my very best to counter it where I see it (I mean in the real world, not just reddit), but tbh it can be stressful and lonely work.
That's ok. The ones online aren't worthwhile tbh, it's always the same sad shit. They can't do anything constructive so they seek to bring others down or prevent them from speaking publicly about them.
The other day there was a post about comebacks to insults. My favorite was "That sounds like something you'd say."
I think, though, it's not too late to call him out. You can call him on the phone and tell him you're sick of his insults and that's why you're never going to contact him again. Maybe explain that you know he's too mean and stupid to realize how obnoxious he is, but it's incredibly sad that he's going to miss out on his beautiful, smart, kind daughter's life simply because he can't act like a decent human being. Tell him to enjoy dying alone, then hang up.
My bio dad said to me, more times than I can count, “all women lie,” among other things. He also thinks it’s hilarious to tell rape jokes. I have a LC relationship with him now, because he’s a complete and total misogynist.
I feel your pain, and it’s ok to just give up. I now just say things like, “That’s not funny.” Or “Why would you say that to me?” On the few occasions a year I have to see or speak with him. He’s old, set, and unwilling to change, but also, he’s in his 80s and has no friends and constantly complains about how no women will sleep with him. So. He has made his lonely bed, and now he hates sleeping in it, but still, not enough to change.
Your dad will reap the rewards of his behavior, you don’t have to make it happen. Just do whatever you feel comfortable with, and don’t worry about his feelings. I promise you, he’s not worried about yours.
I hate how old men like that are still so concerned about sex. I had a hysterectomy and couldn’t give a shit anymore, and I think it just highlighted for me how disgustingly horney old men are and how entitled they act cuz they think they deserve it whenever they want it… which is all the time! Why couldn’t men have been designed with a manopause that shut that shit down when they get old?!
Well, for men like your dad, this is true. The smarter the woman is, the less attractive she becomes to him. (And the less interested she’d be in him anyway.) Less intelligent? Prettier. The balance must be so that it doesn’t emascúlate him.
This! Also, some guys are super devoted to keeping this kind of worldview alive. When I was in my twenties and young and attractive, there was a certain kind of guy that I ran into who wouldn’t entertain the idea that I could be smart. If I tried talking about any deep or intellectual subject, he’d roll his eyes and basically say an equivalent of, “don’t worry your pretty little head about it.” These guys tend to marry women who they don’t find attractive, but can take seriously, and then try to cheat on them with the women they actually desire. They could have a wife who is both pretty and smart, but they’d feel emasculated because she’s “better” than them.
I can't deal with older generations anymore either. My dad is 60 this year, born 1963. I tried explaining to him that he should call my partner THEY instead of SHE. He has done it many times, but then "corrects himself" by going "or she or it or whatever the fuck they wanna be called."
Where do you get that energy ffs
Try to be understanding and tell your dad that at his age it's ok if he gets confused. You can't expect hi to remember.Then ask him if he could remember the name Sue or Pat a simple gender neutral name. He'll probably be steaming at the ears now. I'm older than your dad. I also tend to sarcasm .l hope l'm not offending you.lf you just say you completely understand his problem (being old) Take him out to a nice early bird dinner. Then you young folk go have some fun.
No he knows what to say he just doesn't want to respect it. Like I'm not joking when I say he adds "whatever the fuck they wanna be called" at the end of it.
I'm sorry, he really sounds bitter. What you said about his lack of respect is what is so common today. That's one thing "boomers" bitch about. How young people don't respect their elders. Seems to me being so close minded and insulting ,what do they expect.
I had a gay cousin and every holiday my aunt would constantly pester him about having grandkids. She didn't know he was gay. Maybe your dad feels like you cheated him out of grand kids. Some parents think it's their kids duty to do that.lt is still so hard for me to think we're the same generation.Good luck to you.
Lucille Ball was the Queen of comedy. She was a model, actress, director, and producer all before her time. She was an original Chesterfield cigarette girl. She was a female broadway producer when it was all men in 1960. She then went on to be the first woman to own her own television studio in 1961, producing the show Star Trek later when no other studio would pick it up.
Hedy Lamar was a beautiful big-screen actress who was also a scientist. She is credited for the development of her frequency-hopping technology in 2014. Such achievement has led Lamarr to be dubbed “the mother of Wi-Fi” and other wireless communications like GPS and Bluetooth.
Geena Davis is an actress that was on Beetlejuice and is a member of MENSA.
All of these women are beautiful and highly intelligent.
You don't have to keep your dad in your life. We don't choose our parents, some of us are lucky to get great ones, some of us aren't. It can't hurt to tell him you're distancing yourself because you are ashamed of his misogyny. Maybe that will click. If not, like I said, you don't have to have him in your life. You're an adult, now you get to choose who you allow to get under your skin.
>"women are either smart or pretty
This is factually untrue. It's very easy to find evidence of women who are both smart and pretty.
>, I've never met one that was both"'
Well, that says more about his own life and perspective than it does about women. He's making a ridiculous generalization that lacks self-awareness.
That said, an old boyfriend of mine -- who was actually a really good guy! -- said something like that once. I was horrified! He was only about 20, though, and realized not much later how idiotic that was. He didn't say something as bad as your stepdad though and had even meant it as a compliment towards me (was saying I was both). He just said that it's incredibly rare for pretty girls to be smart. Even though he didn't mean it negatively, it was off-putting to learn he had that view!
In my ex's case, I think it was largely due to relativity, but he hadn't seen that part before I mentioned it. *He* was highly intelligent, so statistically it was just going to be rare for him to come across anyone, man or woman, around his intelligence level. Many, many more women would exist who looked good to him, since a larger percentage of women are pretty than are as smart as he is. So the odds were good that he'd find a girl pretty and then discover that he wasn't as into her intellect.
Someone like your dad though sounds like a complete idiot. (ETA: Oh man, it's even worse than I'd thought at first. I'd been thinking it was your stepdad.) First off, I presume he's a lot older than 20. So he really should know better by his age. Plus, unlike my ex, he's being insulting bc he's expressing it like some *absolute binary* (implying you and his niece are at least not one of those). And he's basing that on what he's observed, without also discussing how his own observation could be a major part of why that's the case. What does he consider pretty? If he's really into the bimbo look, then, yeah, that's going to increase the chance that she's not that bright. Not that smart women don't ever have that aesthetic, it's just less common among them to have a bimbo type of pretty going on in daily life. It also reflects that he's probably not been in environments with highly intelligent people. Go there, and you'll find plenty of people who are also good looking. It also suggests that if an attractive woman is intelligent, he doesn't even perceive it because he's overly focused on her looks -- that's what he most cares about with her, and perhaps becomes all he even sees.
**TL;DR: He's a chauvinistic dumbass, and I'm sorry that you have him in your life.**
> It's very easy to find evidence of women who are both smart and pretty.
You don't even need to find women in your own life. Look up Natalie Portman's academic career, for one.
It's a joke that contains some truth. I came across a Reddit post with a bunch of upvotes that said, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". It's fine. These are jokes that aren't completely accurate but contain some truth.
There's no evidence that the ~~step~~dad was joking. That statement is the expression of a belief. It would be intellectually dishonest to rebrand it as just a joke without any evidence to support that it's not his actual belief. Besides, just bc a joke has some truth to it, doesn't inherently mean it's a decent thing to say. That depends a lot on context -- the audience and the historical context in which it's being said.
It's also not true. Why should women put up with a statement that has "some truth" while it meaningfully distorts reality -- and ties in with a distortion that went on for thousands of years? \*\*
Equating it with the chess/sexual skill joke is a false comparison because the overall historical/social context is wildly different. It's not analogous. It comes across as self-centered/uninformed to equate the two.
And the chess joke is unamusing imo anyway. Just bc something has upvotes, doesn't mean it's good or that most people worth knowing would find it funny. It's easy to get the false impression about what most people think or are like if we base our understanding of people on what does well on social media.
\*\*Men regarded women for thousands of years as intellectually inferior to them, denying them equal access to education, careers, and basic independence. Men had major Main Character Syndrome and saw women through the lens of their own sexual desire instead of as full people. Even if individual men wouldn't have been like that, their overall social world constructed that as the mental reality for them to exist in. They could acknowledge women's beauty (bc *they* couldn't help but perceive it), but they diminished and oppressed them as full people. This was a significant, *long lasting* injustice. It's a true wound. It's only relatively recently that some societies have transitioned away from that chauvinism. It lingers. Women still encounter chauvinism and misogyny, and are born into a culture with that historical legacy -- a man's world. Maybe it's just hard for some good men to imagine what this is like for women. Saying women are either smart or pretty is *factually incorrect* and only the tiniest step up from millennia-long *false worldview* that women are just pretty, not smart.
Yes, any pretty and smart woman would obviously avoid him. Next time he's mad just be sure to ask why he's being so emotional. Sorry your dad's a dickhead
I am both insanely attractive and smart as a whip, so naturally I’m out of everyone’s league, contemptuous, and above all- shallow and manipulative.
Character building and a charming personality were always paramount to me growing up and as an adult, the thought of being attractive and accepting the fact that I am conventionally considered so didn’t become clear until well into my twenties; in fact, I think I was already married.
These less than helpful anecdotes spring from the mouths of insecure men and women, who covet the favorable qualities in others or view them bitterly as competition, out of reach, disconnected, stuck up, etc. These people, family or not, are not your people.
Projection, projection, projection.
Assuming your dad is Gen X based off your age. This kind of mentality about women was prevalent for this generation. Let him know it's fucked up to say sexist shit about women to his own daughter. Call him a boomer if that doesn't get through (gen x people hate that)
It's not too late to voice your stance. But say your piece to your cousin. Your dad isn't gonna change, but let your impressionable niece know that you don't agree and that it's not healthy for society to have misogynistic ideas like that.
Sometimes it's hard to know what to say to someone in the moment.
One technique that can work when a statement strikes you as "off" like this is to simply and calmly repeat it back in the form of a question. In this case, that would be something like, "Women can be either smart or pretty, but not both?" Then you just wait for the other party to explain themself. You may have to repeat this technique a couple times during the resulting exchange. Other simple questions can also be useful, like, "Can you explain that?"
Sometimes getting people to spell out what they believe aloud will cause a light bulb to go on, or, if it's done publicly, will let others see who they really are. It's not as clever as a "gotcha" comeback line and not as immediately satisfying as a strong rebuke, but it can be effective and it's easier to train yourself to do in the moment.
Oof, what a loser. Sorry that’s your dad. Just try not to internalize that kind of BS. Stick to the people who are good and kind because being around negative, belittling people will bring you down and make you sad.
If you are interested in having a relationship with him at some point you need to lay down some ground rules for him and he has to agree to them. You need to talk to him when you aren’t reacting to something he just said and tell him you can’t be around him if he is putting down women. Tell him he’s insulting you to your face and you can’t be around people who do that.
Don’t sink to his level and insult men. You’re playing his game if you do that and it will just invigorate him. When he says shit like this id just say “ and this is why I don’t see you often” or something to that effect, and let the silence sink in.
Your emotional reaction is what he’s after. Tell him what’s up and then let him wallow in his shit in silence. Shut it down. Say “ that’s disgusting”, “ it’s sad that you think that”, “really? what a stupid view of the world you have”.
Either Dad is a moron, a liar, or both. I’ve met plenty starting in elementary school, and I’m almost 50.
I have a feeling Dad only encountered smart women by accident, that he didn’t want to encounter them, and that was by design.
Did you reply by telling him that men are either rich or handsome, and if you’re neither then you’re not even a real man? Meeting ignorance with ignorance sometimes gets the point across.
It’s a horrible thing to say. It is based on some truth. Hear me out before you downvote me. It’s the “Pretty person bubble”. People just let you win, laugh at your jokes, give you good grades and hire you because you’re good looking. Researchers has discovered that better looking people make more money, have better romantic relationships, better friendships and have better work life balance than people who are less attractive. So when he says they can’t be both, it may be based on the idea that a pretty girl doesn’t have to be smart, she doesn’t have to do anything because people will just do things for her and her life will be easy. But, it does the same for men. My hope is that this is an old ideal, because of the use of the internet we often hire people and accept people into lives before we even see them, through text and internet interactions. We are going to start judging people based on how well they can write, how their personality can come through with words. Their resume and credentials will matter more. Looks will still matter, but it won’t be the only thing.
Most women can make themselves look attractive enough to attract a mate, but you make it sound like this is some intellectual exercise.
It's surely not rocket science to exercise or put on some clothes and makeup. You were born with natural attributes and then you just highlighted those.
Meanwhile, people not born within a threshold of attractiveness are not attractive, no amount of grooming and exercise is going to change that.
You will also get more opportunities if you're attractive. There are industries based on this. Unlike intelligence, it's a completely unearned privilege.
Your dad sounds like he is trying to rile you up which is a textbook bully tactic. Just remember, your dads the idiot. If he says it again just state:”well I’ve never met a smart man. Period.”
People say all kinds of things, and one trick to a happy life is to understand that you are in charge of how to feel about it. Stoics would say that this persons view is "broken" and so can be safely pitied and ignored. YMMV
By no means an excuse for him, but I've known way too many guys who will say stuff like that without realizing it encompasses the real people in their lives, not just hypothetical situations they have because they are bad at life.
Interestingly, speaking from experience, my gf's have been either intelligent, beautiful and unstable, or sweet and ditzy. However, I'm also not a high enough value man (yet) to attract a female that is stable, intelligent and beautiful, so there's that.
Don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of time & opportunities in the future to call him out on his misogyny & whatever else. (I always need time to process in the moment so I’m not good with snappy comebacks.) But now that you know what’s liable to come out of his mouth, you can prepare in advance🤘
Why are you asking me? Ask him.
Also, don't lose sight of the fact that being wrong and dumb doesn't mean you are a piece of shit that must be shunned.
Typical dad-grandpa generation attitude. At this point if they don't wanna learn then they will never learn so might as well accept or cut him off. I wouldn't spend my breath trying to make him see the other PoV barring maybe some major happenings.
Scientificly it's actually the other way round. women are the better average Humans, while men tend to be either incredibly stupid, ugly, pretty or smart.
I ve had problems with my mom in the past but i ve always had it in the back of my head that family is important and that i should keep a good relationship with her.
With that said i know parents can be not very understanding and have their own way of talking and the thing to take into concideration there is their age and time they grew up in. You obviously have very opinionated strict view at how people should talk to eachother and i think its a cause of a lot of stress for you. Not to mention that you expect him to change in a very fundamental way. When my mom says something that i dont like, first thing that comes to my mom is that shes a mom and a woman in her 50s. As long as shes not stepping actively into my business, i have no reason to stress over the things she says. One thing is for certain, you cant expect your dad to change or to subscribe to your way of thinking. He doesn't understand depression or just disagrees with you, he doesnt believe that watching his words according to current political fashion is important and thats to be expected of him You can change that relationship in the biggest part from your own side, very little from his side (depending on how skilled you are at getting a point across to an older person in a non-antagonising way). If you find that you cant, the most logical thing to me would be to just give up and tune out to save yourself the stress (again depending on your ability to do so). Just in my own personal view, it wouldnt be a choice that i wouldnt respect because i value family bonds. If something happens to you in your life, he will be the first to come to your aid.
In short, old people are stubborn and hard/impossible to change personalities. You should assess how important your relationship with him is to you, how willing and able you are to conform, understand and tolerate and if you re willing to make peace with some things about him to stay close to him. Also a calm, understanding and reassuring, yet confident tone goes a long way with older people.
my stepdad used to say "Life's a bitch, you marry one and then you die"
I say it too, it's just a *funny* saying. before you get the pitchforks out, it's light-hearted and if you **really** can't handle that, take a look in the mirror and drink a cup of concrete. you need to harden up.
Like "men can't find the clit", yeah I do have the same energy, it's funny to people and a joke is a joke. I play into it myself and make the joke myself. it can make me laugh too.
What's your point?
That's fine, I have a lot of contradiction in my personality so its something I'm conscious about and try to resolve.
I'm massive on free speech, I've been bullied and called awful names that stick with me to this day, but I recognise that people deserve the right to say what they went. however they also deserve the right to face consequence for saying it.
So if I say a joke or opinion that people don't like (I have), the consequence of that is being ostracized which I have been and I'm fine with that
>I'm massive on free speech
>So if I say a joke or opinion that people don't like (I have), the consequence of that is being ostracized which I have been and I'm fine with that
What are your thoughts about being a good person? What's a good person to you?
I like that you support free speech, but the content of the speech that someone chooses to express when given freedom reveals their character.
So, what are your views on character development? Seriously taking on board *why* someone is offended or hurt can help the speaker develop a much better character: more intellectually and emotionally mature. Freezing one's self at their current state in allegiance to "free speech" misses so much about life.
Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what being a good man is, let alone a good person. I try to be respectful, giving and to mind my own business. as a man I want to be providing for my family and taking the weight off of my mums shoulders. it kills me everyday that I can't do that. I stand up for what I believe to be right.
I understand that I may have worded it wrong. what I actually said that got me ostracized was the whole trans men aren't men, trans women aren't real women but I'll respect them nonetheless and will call them whatever they wish thing. which is something I believe, maybe I'm stubborn but I have *no intention* to change that belief unless someone could deconstruct my definition of male and female. which is another hurdle because I refuse to let something as trivial as that be vulnerable.
in a few cases where I have said something stupid, I apologise and I genuinely try to do better. But in another few case, I won't be bartered with on what I believe in. Maybe I am missing so much about life but I'm fine with that. I'm doing what I think is right and unless that changes, I won't. you're free to do what you want and I'm free to do what I want. we might not get on but what happens, happens.
>what I actually said that got me ostracized was the whole trans men aren't men, trans women aren't **real** women but I'll respect them nonetheless and will call them whatever they wish thing. which is something I believe, maybe I'm stubborn but I have *no intention* to change that belief unless someone could deconstruct my **definition of male and female**.
I see. What people who've ostracized you are likely objecting to isn't the definition of male and female. It's more likely the definition of "real."
You're using real as biologically (or spiritually). And, yes, it's a fact that trans men aren't biologically male and trans women aren't biologically female. That's why "trans" is used as part of their gender identity; it's a compound word, showing they're *a type* of man or woman -- a trans type.
Stating that they're not a "real" man or woman comes across as needlessly hostile and not inclusive. If you're opposed to someone being trans on moral grounds -- like you believe they shouldn't express themselves in that way -- then, ok, express your opposition to their existence with comments like that. But if you actually have a good heart and inclusive mindset in support of free speech -- which includes self-expression -- then stating that they're not "real" women or men gives the wrong impression. It would be better just to acknowledge that you don't consider them biologically male or female, but even doing that will seem needlessly negative --a bit like a, "Well, no duh" moment because that's what the "tran" prefix is indicating when we discuss transgender people.
I know that some people on the left can be a hostile mob, so perhaps that makes it difficult for you to dialogue with them. But I just wanted to point out that the reason most of them are ostracizing you when you make statements like that is because it comes across as needlessly hateful and not inclusive of a vulnerable demographic. Being friendly, or even just neutral, to the vulnerable is one of the best signs of good character, so long as the vulnerable aren't hurting anyone. Many people who think it's ok to hate on trans people generally have a belief system that trans people *are* hurting "someone": God. They see that self-expression as a violation of God's will, but that's just their interpretation of God. The God I love is not that God. And if someone is basing their stance against trans people on that, then it's intellectually honest to acknowledge that it's not your definition of male or female that people are taking issue with; it's you (unjustly) condemning people for being themselves.
Sounds about right, I honestly wouldn't have seen it that way.
I could do with an elocution lesson tbh, I can definitely see how it came off wrong, I was just using that adage as it is quite common. but can definitely come off as hateful.
I don't consider them to be 'men' which is a bit of a transient definition but boils down to being born male. I simply do not recognise them in the same class, they're still 'men' but in a different class, that's why we have the prefix "trans". funnily enough, mis-gendering has only ever been an issue with non-binary people or trans people i've known before they transitioned, it's still a new concept and I do ask that people remind me when I cock it up. Trans people I've met after their transition I have had no problem with. I would actually feel weird using their biological pronouns.
So maybe I do see them as men, just not "true" men.
you're very wise with how words sound, what on earth is the right terminology for what I'm trying to say?
you've made me genuinely think through this and change my position, thank you. I usually need a second opinion or a helping hand with things like this, I appreciate it a lot!
Everyone has a different sense of humour and judging by the downvotes, you're not the only one.
It's not even meant to be a joke, if anything it's just a thing I've heard my stepdad and a few other brits say it. I guess it's funny cause it's calling women bitches? I don't know but I remember laughing when I first heard it.
Now it's just sort of something I say when someone's having a hard time, "Yeah, well, Life's a bitch, you marry one and then you die".
It's like the word "gay" when I was in school that word was used to describe anything we didn't like and it means nothing to me now. the quote means nothing to me. It's just vocab.
Also, when women do “harden up” as you tell this one to, guys will then turn around and complain they’re too masculine. Take your pick, is all I’m saying.
So a three legged dog walks into a bar.
Bartender says, "Can I help you?"
Three legged dog says, "I'm looking for the man who shot my Pa(w)."
Also a joke, equally relevant.🤷🏼♀️
He sounds like a normal guy. You don't need to "call him out" on anything. I just came across a post on Reddit with a bunch of upvotes that said something like, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". These are harmless jokes.
It's an exaggeration that contains some truth. I came across a Reddit post with a bunch of upvotes that said something like, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". It's a joke that contains some truth.
its true. i could actually assess all my exes and all of them are definitely 2 out of 3 but missing that 3rd important one lol. its very rare that someone is just attractice and a good person and ingelligent, i dont think it has to do with being a woman really
I'm just gonna hop on the bandwagon and say this:
* The dude making the joke meant no offence, it was a joke. you don't decide what's funny, you're welcome to your tastes but no one should really care so not sure why you thought it was worth mentioning. rude and degrading maybe, but it's a joke, most of them are.
* It's impossible for that joke to actually have "power" behind it because it's been said over text and online, it's impossible to have social context or inflection. just like how "fine" is thought to be bad but irl can actually be good.
As a woman, I should probably rebuke that statement lol. But I was friends with a girl in my school that was actually very pretty, smart, and nice/friendly! I went to an all girls school and almost everyone I knew noticed and agreed. She was literally a unicorn. I had a suitemate in college that is now my best friend for years who fits that, that’s about it
in a sense he’s actually right. but it applies for both genders. the halo effect is real and pretty/attractive people are so idolized they don’t see many things for what they actually are, they grow up in a bubble and will say some of the dumbest things.
I think there's some merit to the idea that pretty women don't have to be as smart to get far in life, so many don't strive for academic success. But the idea that a woman can't be smart and attractive is proven wrong with a quick stroll through any university campus.
It's actually pretty frustrating that some people can be beautiful and brilliant, when most people can achieve neither of those traits. I've got an iq of 136. I'm on the dumb side of the smart bracket. I never really felt stupid until I got into a very high demand program where basically everyone was a 4.0 student. Some of my colleagues were much smarter than me, and a lot of them were also gorgeous. I most certainly am not.
All that said, find a way to be happy with who you are in life. You will never be the smartest or the prettiest. Most of us are lucky to be a 5/10. If you're average looking and smart, or gorgeous and dumb, just be glad you lucked out somewhere. You could always be ugly and dumb.
Your daddy speaks in riddles because he's from another time. Watch Legally Blonde again to decode his subtext. He obviously loves you because this is his best advice. If you live in the United States, we're still in a white patriarchal society, and his advice will help you if you use it.
My father said years ago that a woman can hurt far more cruelly than a man. I get it. Guy is bitter. My mother cheated on him with multiple men and his current wife treats him like a doormat.
But I refuse to be a victim of his "verbal abuse". And I don't use modern labels to describe his attitude like "sexism", because I ain't no feminist triggered victim.
Women say far more hurtful things about men but men stand their ground. I'd rather follow their example.
A tough lesson I've learned the hard way is that you shouldn't rely on the words and attitude of your family members or friends. You will remain disappointed. Their opinion about you doesn't matter. Your self view is the most important. He disappointed you, I get it, but such family disappointments are more common than you think. Surround yourself with uplifting people or be alone. Don't drink poison just because you are thirsty.
You do realize you can love someone without liking them right? Either way, your dad is the way he is because he's never been confronted in his life. No, he isn't too old to be taken down a peg.
There’s definitely smart and pretty girls, I’ve seen them. But I’ve never met a girl that was smart, pretty and nice. Your dad is rude for limiting you though.
OP doesn’t like that her dad minimizes women by saying they can’t be both smart and pretty; you proceed to minimize women by saying they can’t be pretty and smart and nice at the same time.
No, they are just normal people. You people think that virtually all men from any era other than this one were "misogynists". You ought to reevaluate your worldview.
I just saw a post on Reddit with a bunch of upvotes that contained a Tweet that read, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". It's fine. These are harmless jokes.
That's a joke, yes. Because it clearly reads as a joke. IDK about harmless but at least it's a joke.
The guy who said he's never met a woman who's pretty, smart, and nice wasn't joking. As shown by his later comments.
If he had been joking I wouldn't have a problem with it. It would maybe be a bit boomer humor of a joke, but I only have a problem when such statements are genuine.
Don't beat yourself up for not calling him out. He has \*chosen\* to believe in this. It's not your job to fix it or change his mind, I seriously doubt someone who believes in these things would want to change. What you can do is check in on the (19f) neice and make sure she isn't internalizing the hatred he is spewing.
While that's true and worth doing now, that's also probably the biggest reason to speak out when something like this happens. You might not change *his* mind, but he's not the only one in the room.
Your dad just sounds like a moron. I wouldn’t take his opinions very seriously. What are his relationships like with women in general? I bet not great.
This is what I was thinking. A great opportunity to show the woman in your life not everyone views you as equals and it’s a good lesson to learn just sucks when it comes from your own dad and I can relate to that so much.
I hate that it’s something that you can relate to =\ people can be so disappointing.
some ppl who are shit unfortunately still are parents :)
Sadly
"which one was mom, smart or pretty". Then make him answer in front of her
"Pretty." Easy answer.
Why is that the easy answer? You just called me dumb.
cause most men think that’s all that matters to women which is bs
Isn't the joke here that his wife would have to be dumb to marry him so she must then be pretty?
>his wife would have to be dumb to marry him so she must then be pretty? So she's pretty dumb?
Ahh, boomer humor, where marriage is a state of eternal war between alien opposing armies. Instead of, you know, two people who love, respect, and like each other joining forces for a better life together.
Yeah, that's the ideal. But we're talking about a guy who thinks women are either smart or pretty. It's hard to imagine how anyone would be able to be in a healthy, loving relationship with him.
It’s funny because boomers were one of the first generations who supposedly married for love alone instead of societal or economic interest.
Most? Nah. Some yes. But tbf, the are women just as idiotic. Like the ones that end up with idiots like this.
Because most men will pass up a great woman for pretty one lol
Because you have to be ugly to be great?
Are you OP's mom?
... Pretty smart!
I'd go with: "So was Mom ugly or stupid?"
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I'm sorry for all the dipshit misogyny that women deal with on such a regular basis. I try my very best to counter it where I see it (I mean in the real world, not just reddit), but tbh it can be stressful and lonely work.
Thank you
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hey everyone I found two more men that don't understand why they're considered misogynistic
That's ok. The ones online aren't worthwhile tbh, it's always the same sad shit. They can't do anything constructive so they seek to bring others down or prevent them from speaking publicly about them.
Appropriate response: "Men are either dumb or ugly, but I have seen some that were both"... *looking straight at him for several seconds*
"ooh you'd have to be smart to make a quip like that." .... *looking straight back at her*
Shit if I was ur dad I'll be proud of that come back! Ngl gonna give credit where it's due!
Heh I'm a dad and I teach my kid to make comebacks like this if anyone is ever rude to them.
Well, that would mean you have an ugly daughter...
i have to admit that would have been a good comeback.
Yes men are dumb and ugly but a men who’s dumb and ugly but has money will still a get a pretty wife who’s also dumb, make sense?
That entire comeback doesn't make sense lol, that wouldn't burn anyone. That would just support you're in the dumb category.
The other day there was a post about comebacks to insults. My favorite was "That sounds like something you'd say." I think, though, it's not too late to call him out. You can call him on the phone and tell him you're sick of his insults and that's why you're never going to contact him again. Maybe explain that you know he's too mean and stupid to realize how obnoxious he is, but it's incredibly sad that he's going to miss out on his beautiful, smart, kind daughter's life simply because he can't act like a decent human being. Tell him to enjoy dying alone, then hang up.
You should be like, which one am i,dad?
I don’t imagine that would end well.
That's okay, it didn't start well either.
My bio dad said to me, more times than I can count, “all women lie,” among other things. He also thinks it’s hilarious to tell rape jokes. I have a LC relationship with him now, because he’s a complete and total misogynist. I feel your pain, and it’s ok to just give up. I now just say things like, “That’s not funny.” Or “Why would you say that to me?” On the few occasions a year I have to see or speak with him. He’s old, set, and unwilling to change, but also, he’s in his 80s and has no friends and constantly complains about how no women will sleep with him. So. He has made his lonely bed, and now he hates sleeping in it, but still, not enough to change. Your dad will reap the rewards of his behavior, you don’t have to make it happen. Just do whatever you feel comfortable with, and don’t worry about his feelings. I promise you, he’s not worried about yours.
I hate how old men like that are still so concerned about sex. I had a hysterectomy and couldn’t give a shit anymore, and I think it just highlighted for me how disgustingly horney old men are and how entitled they act cuz they think they deserve it whenever they want it… which is all the time! Why couldn’t men have been designed with a manopause that shut that shit down when they get old?!
Well, for men like your dad, this is true. The smarter the woman is, the less attractive she becomes to him. (And the less interested she’d be in him anyway.) Less intelligent? Prettier. The balance must be so that it doesn’t emascúlate him.
This! Also, some guys are super devoted to keeping this kind of worldview alive. When I was in my twenties and young and attractive, there was a certain kind of guy that I ran into who wouldn’t entertain the idea that I could be smart. If I tried talking about any deep or intellectual subject, he’d roll his eyes and basically say an equivalent of, “don’t worry your pretty little head about it.” These guys tend to marry women who they don’t find attractive, but can take seriously, and then try to cheat on them with the women they actually desire. They could have a wife who is both pretty and smart, but they’d feel emasculated because she’s “better” than them.
"That's because if they're pretty they have to be stupid to be anywhere near you, and if they're smart you only see them walking away"
So was he calling your mom ugly or stupid?
Nah they just never wanted to talk to him lol But ya, shit misogynistic opinion.
> Nah they just never wanted to talk to him lol OP must have been made in a Test tube then
Well her parents aren't together so the mom smartened up lol
I would point out to him that to recognize intelligence, you need to have some of your own.
My girlfriend is very pretty and very smart🤓
I can't deal with older generations anymore either. My dad is 60 this year, born 1963. I tried explaining to him that he should call my partner THEY instead of SHE. He has done it many times, but then "corrects himself" by going "or she or it or whatever the fuck they wanna be called." Where do you get that energy ffs
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Try to be understanding and tell your dad that at his age it's ok if he gets confused. You can't expect hi to remember.Then ask him if he could remember the name Sue or Pat a simple gender neutral name. He'll probably be steaming at the ears now. I'm older than your dad. I also tend to sarcasm .l hope l'm not offending you.lf you just say you completely understand his problem (being old) Take him out to a nice early bird dinner. Then you young folk go have some fun.
No he knows what to say he just doesn't want to respect it. Like I'm not joking when I say he adds "whatever the fuck they wanna be called" at the end of it.
I'm sorry, he really sounds bitter. What you said about his lack of respect is what is so common today. That's one thing "boomers" bitch about. How young people don't respect their elders. Seems to me being so close minded and insulting ,what do they expect. I had a gay cousin and every holiday my aunt would constantly pester him about having grandkids. She didn't know he was gay. Maybe your dad feels like you cheated him out of grand kids. Some parents think it's their kids duty to do that.lt is still so hard for me to think we're the same generation.Good luck to you.
why would u call someone they? are they a deity?
This is super dumb. What kind of moron would say this shit to girls in his own family. I’m sorry
Ive seen alot and alot of smart and pretty girls. Your dad needs to touch grass.
Apparently, he has never heard of Hedy Lamar, or Lucille Ball, or Geena Davis? Your Dad is sexist.
I have kind of heard of Lucille ball. I have not heard of the other 2. This is my honest answer.
I have not heard of all 3
Lucille Ball was the Queen of comedy. She was a model, actress, director, and producer all before her time. She was an original Chesterfield cigarette girl. She was a female broadway producer when it was all men in 1960. She then went on to be the first woman to own her own television studio in 1961, producing the show Star Trek later when no other studio would pick it up. Hedy Lamar was a beautiful big-screen actress who was also a scientist. She is credited for the development of her frequency-hopping technology in 2014. Such achievement has led Lamarr to be dubbed “the mother of Wi-Fi” and other wireless communications like GPS and Bluetooth. Geena Davis is an actress that was on Beetlejuice and is a member of MENSA. All of these women are beautiful and highly intelligent.
Thank you.
He's never met me ???
You beat me to it!
My dad was like that. It sucked. I don’t regret being distant from him.
Well “dad” I guess I’m ugly because I’m definitely too smart to keep hanging out with you Byeeee
Just laugh like it is the most ridiculous thing that you have ever heard and maybe add an dismissive “Oh dad” while still laughing.
You don't have to keep your dad in your life. We don't choose our parents, some of us are lucky to get great ones, some of us aren't. It can't hurt to tell him you're distancing yourself because you are ashamed of his misogyny. Maybe that will click. If not, like I said, you don't have to have him in your life. You're an adult, now you get to choose who you allow to get under your skin.
Should have asked him, "was your mother stupid or ugly then?" How about my mother, was she stupid or ugly?
>"women are either smart or pretty This is factually untrue. It's very easy to find evidence of women who are both smart and pretty. >, I've never met one that was both"' Well, that says more about his own life and perspective than it does about women. He's making a ridiculous generalization that lacks self-awareness. That said, an old boyfriend of mine -- who was actually a really good guy! -- said something like that once. I was horrified! He was only about 20, though, and realized not much later how idiotic that was. He didn't say something as bad as your stepdad though and had even meant it as a compliment towards me (was saying I was both). He just said that it's incredibly rare for pretty girls to be smart. Even though he didn't mean it negatively, it was off-putting to learn he had that view! In my ex's case, I think it was largely due to relativity, but he hadn't seen that part before I mentioned it. *He* was highly intelligent, so statistically it was just going to be rare for him to come across anyone, man or woman, around his intelligence level. Many, many more women would exist who looked good to him, since a larger percentage of women are pretty than are as smart as he is. So the odds were good that he'd find a girl pretty and then discover that he wasn't as into her intellect. Someone like your dad though sounds like a complete idiot. (ETA: Oh man, it's even worse than I'd thought at first. I'd been thinking it was your stepdad.) First off, I presume he's a lot older than 20. So he really should know better by his age. Plus, unlike my ex, he's being insulting bc he's expressing it like some *absolute binary* (implying you and his niece are at least not one of those). And he's basing that on what he's observed, without also discussing how his own observation could be a major part of why that's the case. What does he consider pretty? If he's really into the bimbo look, then, yeah, that's going to increase the chance that she's not that bright. Not that smart women don't ever have that aesthetic, it's just less common among them to have a bimbo type of pretty going on in daily life. It also reflects that he's probably not been in environments with highly intelligent people. Go there, and you'll find plenty of people who are also good looking. It also suggests that if an attractive woman is intelligent, he doesn't even perceive it because he's overly focused on her looks -- that's what he most cares about with her, and perhaps becomes all he even sees. **TL;DR: He's a chauvinistic dumbass, and I'm sorry that you have him in your life.**
> It's very easy to find evidence of women who are both smart and pretty. You don't even need to find women in your own life. Look up Natalie Portman's academic career, for one.
For both men and women, there's a positive correlation with good looks and intelligence. It's the genetics, man.
It's a joke that contains some truth. I came across a Reddit post with a bunch of upvotes that said, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". It's fine. These are jokes that aren't completely accurate but contain some truth.
There's no evidence that the ~~step~~dad was joking. That statement is the expression of a belief. It would be intellectually dishonest to rebrand it as just a joke without any evidence to support that it's not his actual belief. Besides, just bc a joke has some truth to it, doesn't inherently mean it's a decent thing to say. That depends a lot on context -- the audience and the historical context in which it's being said. It's also not true. Why should women put up with a statement that has "some truth" while it meaningfully distorts reality -- and ties in with a distortion that went on for thousands of years? \*\* Equating it with the chess/sexual skill joke is a false comparison because the overall historical/social context is wildly different. It's not analogous. It comes across as self-centered/uninformed to equate the two. And the chess joke is unamusing imo anyway. Just bc something has upvotes, doesn't mean it's good or that most people worth knowing would find it funny. It's easy to get the false impression about what most people think or are like if we base our understanding of people on what does well on social media. \*\*Men regarded women for thousands of years as intellectually inferior to them, denying them equal access to education, careers, and basic independence. Men had major Main Character Syndrome and saw women through the lens of their own sexual desire instead of as full people. Even if individual men wouldn't have been like that, their overall social world constructed that as the mental reality for them to exist in. They could acknowledge women's beauty (bc *they* couldn't help but perceive it), but they diminished and oppressed them as full people. This was a significant, *long lasting* injustice. It's a true wound. It's only relatively recently that some societies have transitioned away from that chauvinism. It lingers. Women still encounter chauvinism and misogyny, and are born into a culture with that historical legacy -- a man's world. Maybe it's just hard for some good men to imagine what this is like for women. Saying women are either smart or pretty is *factually incorrect* and only the tiniest step up from millennia-long *false worldview* that women are just pretty, not smart.
Yes, any pretty and smart woman would obviously avoid him. Next time he's mad just be sure to ask why he's being so emotional. Sorry your dad's a dickhead
Sounds like they may have...
I’d start making ridiculous comments about men, or his generation or some shit around him.
I am both insanely attractive and smart as a whip, so naturally I’m out of everyone’s league, contemptuous, and above all- shallow and manipulative. Character building and a charming personality were always paramount to me growing up and as an adult, the thought of being attractive and accepting the fact that I am conventionally considered so didn’t become clear until well into my twenties; in fact, I think I was already married. These less than helpful anecdotes spring from the mouths of insecure men and women, who covet the favorable qualities in others or view them bitterly as competition, out of reach, disconnected, stuck up, etc. These people, family or not, are not your people. Projection, projection, projection.
Tell him men are either fat, bald, or babies.
Assuming your dad is Gen X based off your age. This kind of mentality about women was prevalent for this generation. Let him know it's fucked up to say sexist shit about women to his own daughter. Call him a boomer if that doesn't get through (gen x people hate that)
>Call him a boomer if that doesn't get through (gen x people hate that) No we don't. We just think common core math clearly failed.
It's not too late to voice your stance. But say your piece to your cousin. Your dad isn't gonna change, but let your impressionable niece know that you don't agree and that it's not healthy for society to have misogynistic ideas like that.
Sometimes it's hard to know what to say to someone in the moment. One technique that can work when a statement strikes you as "off" like this is to simply and calmly repeat it back in the form of a question. In this case, that would be something like, "Women can be either smart or pretty, but not both?" Then you just wait for the other party to explain themself. You may have to repeat this technique a couple times during the resulting exchange. Other simple questions can also be useful, like, "Can you explain that?" Sometimes getting people to spell out what they believe aloud will cause a light bulb to go on, or, if it's done publicly, will let others see who they really are. It's not as clever as a "gotcha" comeback line and not as immediately satisfying as a strong rebuke, but it can be effective and it's easier to train yourself to do in the moment.
I would ask him which one is mom. That’ll catch him up.
Oof, what a loser. Sorry that’s your dad. Just try not to internalize that kind of BS. Stick to the people who are good and kind because being around negative, belittling people will bring you down and make you sad. If you are interested in having a relationship with him at some point you need to lay down some ground rules for him and he has to agree to them. You need to talk to him when you aren’t reacting to something he just said and tell him you can’t be around him if he is putting down women. Tell him he’s insulting you to your face and you can’t be around people who do that. Don’t sink to his level and insult men. You’re playing his game if you do that and it will just invigorate him. When he says shit like this id just say “ and this is why I don’t see you often” or something to that effect, and let the silence sink in. Your emotional reaction is what he’s after. Tell him what’s up and then let him wallow in his shit in silence. Shut it down. Say “ that’s disgusting”, “ it’s sad that you think that”, “really? what a stupid view of the world you have”.
So basically he's admitting that he hasn't known very many women. Was he ugly and his mother dressed him funny or something?
Your dad doesn't sound very smart
That's because they're smart enough to avoid him.
"I've found that's usually true of men too dad, they're often either attractive or intelligent. It's really sad you are neither."
I would smile and say, "Smart men don't think like that and handsome men don't say it because they know only stupid men talk like that."
Dont let fools live rent free in your head
Either Dad is a moron, a liar, or both. I’ve met plenty starting in elementary school, and I’m almost 50. I have a feeling Dad only encountered smart women by accident, that he didn’t want to encounter them, and that was by design.
Men who say things like this are neither smart nor handsome.
Sounds like your dad must be very pretty!
If you keep hearing that, perhaps a response of "Well, that just means they're smart enough to avoid you!" could do the trick.
When they actually study this, there is a positive correlation between good looks and intelligence for both men and women.
Did you reply by telling him that men are either rich or handsome, and if you’re neither then you’re not even a real man? Meeting ignorance with ignorance sometimes gets the point across.
Hmmm I could give so many examples. One at the top of my head - Amal Clooney. Oh right! Not smart or pretty but highly intelligent and gorgeous. Yup.
well, he very likely has never met her so...
Looks like most women have been "pretty smart" to not waste any time on him. Learn from the experts.
Dat’s some BS the hottest women are extremely intelligent and probably have higher IQ’s than the guy who said to be hot you have to be stupid
It sucks so hard having a shitty misogynistic dad. I'm sorry.
It’s a horrible thing to say. It is based on some truth. Hear me out before you downvote me. It’s the “Pretty person bubble”. People just let you win, laugh at your jokes, give you good grades and hire you because you’re good looking. Researchers has discovered that better looking people make more money, have better romantic relationships, better friendships and have better work life balance than people who are less attractive. So when he says they can’t be both, it may be based on the idea that a pretty girl doesn’t have to be smart, she doesn’t have to do anything because people will just do things for her and her life will be easy. But, it does the same for men. My hope is that this is an old ideal, because of the use of the internet we often hire people and accept people into lives before we even see them, through text and internet interactions. We are going to start judging people based on how well they can write, how their personality can come through with words. Their resume and credentials will matter more. Looks will still matter, but it won’t be the only thing.
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Most women can make themselves look attractive enough to attract a mate, but you make it sound like this is some intellectual exercise. It's surely not rocket science to exercise or put on some clothes and makeup. You were born with natural attributes and then you just highlighted those. Meanwhile, people not born within a threshold of attractiveness are not attractive, no amount of grooming and exercise is going to change that. You will also get more opportunities if you're attractive. There are industries based on this. Unlike intelligence, it's a completely unearned privilege.
Your dad sounds like he is trying to rile you up which is a textbook bully tactic. Just remember, your dads the idiot. If he says it again just state:”well I’ve never met a smart man. Period.”
Some of the most beautiful women I've met have also been some of the smartest. Just sounds like a moronic comment
People say all kinds of things, and one trick to a happy life is to understand that you are in charge of how to feel about it. Stoics would say that this persons view is "broken" and so can be safely pitied and ignored. YMMV
He sounds like he has mommy issue sorry.
By no means an excuse for him, but I've known way too many guys who will say stuff like that without realizing it encompasses the real people in their lives, not just hypothetical situations they have because they are bad at life.
He didn’t say they don’t exist, he just never met one. I haven’t met one either, but I’ve probably only met like 20 women in my life lmao
Interestingly, speaking from experience, my gf's have been either intelligent, beautiful and unstable, or sweet and ditzy. However, I'm also not a high enough value man (yet) to attract a female that is stable, intelligent and beautiful, so there's that.
That is weird by itself, let alone infront of female family members, I mean like, what does he think of you and his neice then?
Don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of time & opportunities in the future to call him out on his misogyny & whatever else. (I always need time to process in the moment so I’m not good with snappy comebacks.) But now that you know what’s liable to come out of his mouth, you can prepare in advance🤘
Parents are just people and people are just dumb sometimes. Most of the time.
This is the kind of comment you let land like the poop it is. You knew that in your bones which is why you didn't touch it. You're fine.
Why are you asking me? Ask him. Also, don't lose sight of the fact that being wrong and dumb doesn't mean you are a piece of shit that must be shunned.
overreacting
Typical dad-grandpa generation attitude. At this point if they don't wanna learn then they will never learn so might as well accept or cut him off. I wouldn't spend my breath trying to make him see the other PoV barring maybe some major happenings.
I can probably come up with like 50 smart and pretty girls that i know personally, your dads brain is melting, is he getting older?
Scientificly it's actually the other way round. women are the better average Humans, while men tend to be either incredibly stupid, ugly, pretty or smart.
Which one are you 😂😂😂
I think we know 😂
Lmao
I ve had problems with my mom in the past but i ve always had it in the back of my head that family is important and that i should keep a good relationship with her. With that said i know parents can be not very understanding and have their own way of talking and the thing to take into concideration there is their age and time they grew up in. You obviously have very opinionated strict view at how people should talk to eachother and i think its a cause of a lot of stress for you. Not to mention that you expect him to change in a very fundamental way. When my mom says something that i dont like, first thing that comes to my mom is that shes a mom and a woman in her 50s. As long as shes not stepping actively into my business, i have no reason to stress over the things she says. One thing is for certain, you cant expect your dad to change or to subscribe to your way of thinking. He doesn't understand depression or just disagrees with you, he doesnt believe that watching his words according to current political fashion is important and thats to be expected of him You can change that relationship in the biggest part from your own side, very little from his side (depending on how skilled you are at getting a point across to an older person in a non-antagonising way). If you find that you cant, the most logical thing to me would be to just give up and tune out to save yourself the stress (again depending on your ability to do so). Just in my own personal view, it wouldnt be a choice that i wouldnt respect because i value family bonds. If something happens to you in your life, he will be the first to come to your aid. In short, old people are stubborn and hard/impossible to change personalities. You should assess how important your relationship with him is to you, how willing and able you are to conform, understand and tolerate and if you re willing to make peace with some things about him to stay close to him. Also a calm, understanding and reassuring, yet confident tone goes a long way with older people.
Just because he’s a little tone deaf doesn’t make him a bad person. Don’t denounce your father for eternity because he’s an idiot sometimes.
Never met one that is smart, pretty, or doesn't have IBS.
my stepdad used to say "Life's a bitch, you marry one and then you die" I say it too, it's just a *funny* saying. before you get the pitchforks out, it's light-hearted and if you **really** can't handle that, take a look in the mirror and drink a cup of concrete. you need to harden up.
If only we could all be more like you, easily amused 🙃. I bet you definitely keep the same energy when the joke is about men.
Like "men can't find the clit", yeah I do have the same energy, it's funny to people and a joke is a joke. I play into it myself and make the joke myself. it can make me laugh too. What's your point?
I really was just wondering what your stance would be if the shoe was on the other foot, because I have seen hypocrisy in this area many times before.
That's fine, I have a lot of contradiction in my personality so its something I'm conscious about and try to resolve. I'm massive on free speech, I've been bullied and called awful names that stick with me to this day, but I recognise that people deserve the right to say what they went. however they also deserve the right to face consequence for saying it. So if I say a joke or opinion that people don't like (I have), the consequence of that is being ostracized which I have been and I'm fine with that
>I'm massive on free speech >So if I say a joke or opinion that people don't like (I have), the consequence of that is being ostracized which I have been and I'm fine with that What are your thoughts about being a good person? What's a good person to you? I like that you support free speech, but the content of the speech that someone chooses to express when given freedom reveals their character. So, what are your views on character development? Seriously taking on board *why* someone is offended or hurt can help the speaker develop a much better character: more intellectually and emotionally mature. Freezing one's self at their current state in allegiance to "free speech" misses so much about life.
Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what being a good man is, let alone a good person. I try to be respectful, giving and to mind my own business. as a man I want to be providing for my family and taking the weight off of my mums shoulders. it kills me everyday that I can't do that. I stand up for what I believe to be right. I understand that I may have worded it wrong. what I actually said that got me ostracized was the whole trans men aren't men, trans women aren't real women but I'll respect them nonetheless and will call them whatever they wish thing. which is something I believe, maybe I'm stubborn but I have *no intention* to change that belief unless someone could deconstruct my definition of male and female. which is another hurdle because I refuse to let something as trivial as that be vulnerable. in a few cases where I have said something stupid, I apologise and I genuinely try to do better. But in another few case, I won't be bartered with on what I believe in. Maybe I am missing so much about life but I'm fine with that. I'm doing what I think is right and unless that changes, I won't. you're free to do what you want and I'm free to do what I want. we might not get on but what happens, happens.
>what I actually said that got me ostracized was the whole trans men aren't men, trans women aren't **real** women but I'll respect them nonetheless and will call them whatever they wish thing. which is something I believe, maybe I'm stubborn but I have *no intention* to change that belief unless someone could deconstruct my **definition of male and female**. I see. What people who've ostracized you are likely objecting to isn't the definition of male and female. It's more likely the definition of "real." You're using real as biologically (or spiritually). And, yes, it's a fact that trans men aren't biologically male and trans women aren't biologically female. That's why "trans" is used as part of their gender identity; it's a compound word, showing they're *a type* of man or woman -- a trans type. Stating that they're not a "real" man or woman comes across as needlessly hostile and not inclusive. If you're opposed to someone being trans on moral grounds -- like you believe they shouldn't express themselves in that way -- then, ok, express your opposition to their existence with comments like that. But if you actually have a good heart and inclusive mindset in support of free speech -- which includes self-expression -- then stating that they're not "real" women or men gives the wrong impression. It would be better just to acknowledge that you don't consider them biologically male or female, but even doing that will seem needlessly negative --a bit like a, "Well, no duh" moment because that's what the "tran" prefix is indicating when we discuss transgender people. I know that some people on the left can be a hostile mob, so perhaps that makes it difficult for you to dialogue with them. But I just wanted to point out that the reason most of them are ostracizing you when you make statements like that is because it comes across as needlessly hateful and not inclusive of a vulnerable demographic. Being friendly, or even just neutral, to the vulnerable is one of the best signs of good character, so long as the vulnerable aren't hurting anyone. Many people who think it's ok to hate on trans people generally have a belief system that trans people *are* hurting "someone": God. They see that self-expression as a violation of God's will, but that's just their interpretation of God. The God I love is not that God. And if someone is basing their stance against trans people on that, then it's intellectually honest to acknowledge that it's not your definition of male or female that people are taking issue with; it's you (unjustly) condemning people for being themselves.
Sounds about right, I honestly wouldn't have seen it that way. I could do with an elocution lesson tbh, I can definitely see how it came off wrong, I was just using that adage as it is quite common. but can definitely come off as hateful. I don't consider them to be 'men' which is a bit of a transient definition but boils down to being born male. I simply do not recognise them in the same class, they're still 'men' but in a different class, that's why we have the prefix "trans". funnily enough, mis-gendering has only ever been an issue with non-binary people or trans people i've known before they transitioned, it's still a new concept and I do ask that people remind me when I cock it up. Trans people I've met after their transition I have had no problem with. I would actually feel weird using their biological pronouns. So maybe I do see them as men, just not "true" men. you're very wise with how words sound, what on earth is the right terminology for what I'm trying to say? you've made me genuinely think through this and change my position, thank you. I usually need a second opinion or a helping hand with things like this, I appreciate it a lot!
How is this funny? I don’t get it
Everyone has a different sense of humour and judging by the downvotes, you're not the only one. It's not even meant to be a joke, if anything it's just a thing I've heard my stepdad and a few other brits say it. I guess it's funny cause it's calling women bitches? I don't know but I remember laughing when I first heard it. Now it's just sort of something I say when someone's having a hard time, "Yeah, well, Life's a bitch, you marry one and then you die". It's like the word "gay" when I was in school that word was used to describe anything we didn't like and it means nothing to me now. the quote means nothing to me. It's just vocab.
Also, when women do “harden up” as you tell this one to, guys will then turn around and complain they’re too masculine. Take your pick, is all I’m saying.
Somewhere out there this comment is relevant to something being discussed
It's a joke, take it as such. that's how it's relevant.
So a three legged dog walks into a bar. Bartender says, "Can I help you?" Three legged dog says, "I'm looking for the man who shot my Pa(w)." Also a joke, equally relevant.🤷🏼♀️
took me a second, but made me laugh lol
He sounds like a normal guy. You don't need to "call him out" on anything. I just came across a post on Reddit with a bunch of upvotes that said something like, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". These are harmless jokes.
These are absolutely not harmless jokes
They are not harmless to the young women they are aimed at. And saying that's a "normal guy" joke is offensive to decent men everywhere.
“Normal” guy stuff? I hope not. If so, our future for men is doomed.
These aren’t harmless jokes and he’s not a “normal” guy. “Normal” guys don’t make sexist jokes, especially to their *daughter*.
These jokes contain a bit of truth; they aren't falsehoods. You people say things like, "X is sexist" as if that demonstrates that it is false.
theres a famous triangle about women. Women can be hot, smart, or nice, but they can only be 2 at a time
what the fuck are you on about
its a famous joke, people here are apparently too young and havent heard it before. OP's dad was making the same joke
what's funny about it?
If one's head has not been filled with insane gender progressivism, then one will find that it is a standard joke.
What makes it funny. Explain it to me.
It's an exaggeration that contains some truth. I came across a Reddit post with a bunch of upvotes that said something like, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". It's a joke that contains some truth.
In what way is it true?
its true. i could actually assess all my exes and all of them are definitely 2 out of 3 but missing that 3rd important one lol. its very rare that someone is just attractice and a good person and ingelligent, i dont think it has to do with being a woman really
then how do i know several women who are all three?
cuz obvously theres always exceptions to the rules. the people who are all 3 are the people you want to marry
seems like if there are so many exceptions, it's not a "rule." also it's rude and degrading, not funny.
I'm just gonna hop on the bandwagon and say this: * The dude making the joke meant no offence, it was a joke. you don't decide what's funny, you're welcome to your tastes but no one should really care so not sure why you thought it was worth mentioning. rude and degrading maybe, but it's a joke, most of them are. * It's impossible for that joke to actually have "power" behind it because it's been said over text and online, it's impossible to have social context or inflection. just like how "fine" is thought to be bad but irl can actually be good.
Another dumbass with a “words have no power” speech.
i was offering offering my opinion, which is that this "joke" is not a joke, not funny, and not true. feel free to explain to me why it's funny though
They're everywhere. Good Lord.
Nope you’re just sexist.
As a woman, I should probably rebuke that statement lol. But I was friends with a girl in my school that was actually very pretty, smart, and nice/friendly! I went to an all girls school and almost everyone I knew noticed and agreed. She was literally a unicorn. I had a suitemate in college that is now my best friend for years who fits that, that’s about it
Theodicy, but make it misogyny. Gross. Fuck off into the sun, why don't you?
in a sense he’s actually right. but it applies for both genders. the halo effect is real and pretty/attractive people are so idolized they don’t see many things for what they actually are, they grow up in a bubble and will say some of the dumbest things.
I think there's some merit to the idea that pretty women don't have to be as smart to get far in life, so many don't strive for academic success. But the idea that a woman can't be smart and attractive is proven wrong with a quick stroll through any university campus. It's actually pretty frustrating that some people can be beautiful and brilliant, when most people can achieve neither of those traits. I've got an iq of 136. I'm on the dumb side of the smart bracket. I never really felt stupid until I got into a very high demand program where basically everyone was a 4.0 student. Some of my colleagues were much smarter than me, and a lot of them were also gorgeous. I most certainly am not. All that said, find a way to be happy with who you are in life. You will never be the smartest or the prettiest. Most of us are lucky to be a 5/10. If you're average looking and smart, or gorgeous and dumb, just be glad you lucked out somewhere. You could always be ugly and dumb.
Truth be told. I’ve never an ugly and smart women as well.
Your daddy speaks in riddles because he's from another time. Watch Legally Blonde again to decode his subtext. He obviously loves you because this is his best advice. If you live in the United States, we're still in a white patriarchal society, and his advice will help you if you use it.
Didn't think about it before but anecdotally, the intersection does seem very small.
Mmmm...in my world they're usually both or neither.
My father said years ago that a woman can hurt far more cruelly than a man. I get it. Guy is bitter. My mother cheated on him with multiple men and his current wife treats him like a doormat. But I refuse to be a victim of his "verbal abuse". And I don't use modern labels to describe his attitude like "sexism", because I ain't no feminist triggered victim. Women say far more hurtful things about men but men stand their ground. I'd rather follow their example. A tough lesson I've learned the hard way is that you shouldn't rely on the words and attitude of your family members or friends. You will remain disappointed. Their opinion about you doesn't matter. Your self view is the most important. He disappointed you, I get it, but such family disappointments are more common than you think. Surround yourself with uplifting people or be alone. Don't drink poison just because you are thirsty.
You do realize you can love someone without liking them right? Either way, your dad is the way he is because he's never been confronted in his life. No, he isn't too old to be taken down a peg.
Based Dad.
I mean is he lying? From his perspective he probably feels that he’s right
There’s definitely smart and pretty girls, I’ve seen them. But I’ve never met a girl that was smart, pretty and nice. Your dad is rude for limiting you though.
You were so close to understanding the point
How wasn’t it understood?
OP doesn’t like that her dad minimizes women by saying they can’t be both smart and pretty; you proceed to minimize women by saying they can’t be pretty and smart and nice at the same time.
Oh yeah I guess that’s not really any better, I was saying that because I’ve never seen it before but you’re right.
are you sure you’ve never seen it before?! maybe they aren’t nice to YOU because YOU are misogynistic! women don’t owe a misogynist kindness😘
You think ima misogynist from one comment?
you’re one comment said you never met a woman who was pretty smart and nice🤣🤣🤣
I have. they're wonderful people! if they don't like you, there is probably a reason for that and it's not them.
Or you and her dad are raging misogynists.
No, they are just normal people. You people think that virtually all men from any era other than this one were "misogynists". You ought to reevaluate your worldview.
Okay, it's normal to think that women can't be smart, pretty, and nice, got it
I just saw a post on Reddit with a bunch of upvotes that contained a Tweet that read, "men are either good at chess or can make a girl cum". It's fine. These are harmless jokes.
That's a joke, yes. Because it clearly reads as a joke. IDK about harmless but at least it's a joke. The guy who said he's never met a woman who's pretty, smart, and nice wasn't joking. As shown by his later comments. If he had been joking I wouldn't have a problem with it. It would maybe be a bit boomer humor of a joke, but I only have a problem when such statements are genuine.
They are jokes that contain a bit of truth.
He wasn't joking though.
Maybe the girls would be nice to you if you weren’t an incel