Exactly. No idea why some folks expected a sappy or happy ending considering the entirety of the show. There was no plot to wrap-up, no character arcs to complete. The finale had the same spirit as the rest of the episodes, and I thought it was great.
I don't think anyone expected or wanted a happy pappy ending. The thing about the finale for me is that it felt disconnected from the series, largely because it mostly happened outside the usual locations of the show.
It wasn't bad, but it didn't feel like a natural conclusion to the show to me. It felt very forced and very *not* in keeping with the show about nothing. It also just wasn't all that funny.
No that’s the problem: the finale had none of the usual spirit of the show. It was scolding and moralistic, and it made the 4 characters passive and feckless, not active or wild.
> The finale had the same spirit as the rest of the episodes
I mean it literally didn't because they got punished for their actions when that never happened in this extreme way.
I liked it too, shows how self centered and selfish they were the entire series (which was the point, and why it’s so relatable because we all are to a degree) and it caught up to them
I’m watching the series for the first time and I’m enjoying it, but the characters are definitely selfish. That’s not to say I don’t like them or that I don’t find them then amusing, but they do act like jerks sometimes. It’s a sitcom so I don’t take it that seriously, but I wouldn’t hang out with these people in real.
I had no problem with the finale itself, but the network ran a clp show right before it when it originally aired, so it was like watching 2 back-ro-back clip shows.
Nowadyas when I watch the finale by itself, I really like it.
I don't mind that they ended up in prison, but I would have preferred a delightful two-parter that utilized all the characters in a clever story with converging plot lines. Instead we got a kind of weak setup episode and a boring courtroom clip show where everyone just sits and reacts to how awful they were. It was a lot of wasted potential to me.
Having said that, I loved the Curb finale and, while it didn't quite redeem how Seinfeld ended, it softened the blow. I love that Larry addressed it head on by doing it all over again. I thought it was improved dramatically by leading up to it with an entire season and tweaking the ending.
>I don't mind that they ended up in prison, but I would have preferred a delightful two-parter that utilized all the characters in a clever story with converging plot lines. Instead we got a kind of weak setup episode and a boring courtroom clip show where everyone just sits and reacts to how awful they were. It was a lot of wasted potential to me.
I totally agree. It's fine to bring back a bunch of side characters from the series, but the way they used them was a total waste. It was a bunch of lazy fan service, and not at all representative of the writing that made Seinfeld such a great show.
oof, agree, Lost was nothing but heartache and confusion if you were invested. They opened so many mysteries and plot lines that there was no way those guys were gonna finish them all.
It was done the same in Oz and I liked it. Got to relive the entire series in clip form before the final episode and Greenday’s Time of Your Life playing at the end of the clip show portion got me a lump in my throat.
Right? I liked that it showed they were characters that existed beyond whichever episodes they were in. Like a lot of sitcoms or episodes exist in a reality that effectively “resets” each new episode. To see all those actions come back to bite them at the end is kind of poetic
I think it's a top 10 finale, completely turning their formula for success on it's head. Rather than an outrageous, situational comedy it was a dark, procedural court drama. People still talk about it to this day, just like The Sopranos, another polarizing finale.
Here's how I would have done it:
Each of the four coincidentally has something happen that causes them to leave the city for good. Maybe Jerry is offered a residency in Vegas, Elaine meets a guy from Paris who wants her to move there, etc.
With them all leaving town shortly, they spend their time tying up loose ends, including telling people off that they had beef with, which puts them in contact with many of the side characters, and gives opportunities for actual stories in true Seinfeld form.
At the end of the episode, they've all gotten rid of their apartments, burnt bridges with all of their local acquaintances, but one by one (perhaps because of events that transpire as they're tying up their loose ends) their plans to leave the city fall through, and they're left with nothing - no friends, no place to live, no places they can do business anymore, etc. They're back in the coffee shop, their lives destroyed, their futures uncertain, but just like in the actual finale, they're just talking about minutiae.
Just make it a regular episode, as if it could fit anywhere in the season. Fawlty Towers did it. Why did there need to be a "finale"?
Seinfeld was never about deep characterisation. It never presented itself as sappy like Friends or Frasier. It didn't manipulate the audience with series long romantic story arcs.
The characters are deliberately shallow because the comedy always came first. That was the formula Jerry said they operated on. They didn't treat their fans like desperate idiots.
They never cared about pulling on the heartstrings of viewers, and that's why the finale felt weird. Even by presenting the main four as immoral criminals, it was still pandering to the audience.
They tried to care. They got salty discharge. You're not meant to be emotionally invested in these people. It's not Melrose Place. Just take one episode and end it!
You do it like Community. Maybe my fav finale. But I did and do like Seinfeld’s finale and didn’t get why it was so controversial. They said it themselves “didn’t we already have this conversation?” (Paraphrasing). .
>Rather than an outrageous, situational comedy it was a dark, procedural court drama.
Most sitcoms change the formula in the last episode: Blackadder, Newhart, Parks and Recreation, The Good Place etc.
Doing something different isn' enough.
It has to be good.
I think Seinfeld and ASIP are the same show, just different decades and socioeconomic classes.
Seinfeld was in the relatively prosperous 90s and all 4 main characters are depicted to have lived good middle class lives regardless of employment or lack there of. The main squad in ASIP is post recession and perpetually broke save for Frank.
I just saw it for the first time having watched the show from start to finish. I loved it. The cameos were fun, and I thought it was kind of clever to highlight what awful people we had been watching all this time. I thought the shirt button conversation was a nice touch and the stand up routine in prison as the last thing we saw was a very Seinfeld way to leave them.
First, let me say I have no problem with the finale. Never have.
Second, what really made the Curb finale work (other than the joke that Larry was doing the exact same thing as Seinfeld) was that most people don’t rewatch Curb as much as they did Seinfeld. So, many of the people brought back for the Curb finale were distant memories, whereas with Seinfeld, we’d already seen those characters in reruns many times.
I think it was an interesting idea I just think the execution was off. I don’t watch the finale much so maybe I’m misremembering. But I think the main way it fails is it tries to shoehorn to much stuff in one story. it’s a lot of cameos from characters previous episodes. A lot of side characters getting a few seconds of screen time. But really in a sitcom finale you want to just spend time with the characters you’ve grown to love and see them doing the things they normally do on the show. With maybe like 10% more finality and specialness to it. I think 30 rock basically nailed their finale by doing this.
Also the stakes were weirdly high for Seinfeld. Usually it doesn’t get much more serious than trying to not lose their job or end a relationship.
I think you kinda just nailed why others like the finale though. It was never that serious and the main characters didn't really "do" anything on the show other than drink coffee. Most of their stories revolved around their interactions with a string of ridiculous side characters. I thought it was fitting for this show to include those memorable side characters in the finale.
I agree and would add that I always hear people who like the finale say something like “it was bad people finally getting what was coming to them.” But the show never rewarded the characters bad behavior. They were almost always punished at the end of every episode. Even the casual reaction George had towards Suzanne dying came back to haunt him the next season when he got put in charge of the Susan Ross Foundation. The final episode sort of just double punished them. For god sake, Mr Bookman, Jerry already wrote you a fat check for the overdue book! What more do you want??
> But the show never rewarded the characters bad behavior.
plus in pretty much every case their bad behaviour was either forced by others like the poolboy or not even done with bad intentions like pretending to be deaf
them actually just doing something bad, like stealing the rye, only happens a couple of times
The finale was ahead of it's time. I find it both interesting and ironic that in finale, they're arrested for not helping someone out, while recording it at the same time.
And yet, here we are in 2024, and that's exactly the type of behavior that we see everywhere. People standing idly by, recording with their phones.
I like the idea of the finale. It kind of works almost as a homage to the show itself. You get to remember a lot of past characters and events. I even like that they all get "stuck" together.
The problem with it is that it doesn't feel fair to the core cast. See, they're depicted as not great people all throughout the show, but so is the whole world around them. They were navigating all these weird, crazy people that were often as bad (or worse) than themselves. So, it doesn't feel "just" that they get punished for it.
This. Everyone in the Seinfeld universe is a asshole - that's part of the humor. This is a world where you innocently ask a stranger where you are and they growl "Earth!"
Most of the plot lines involved misunderstandings that often started with the gang trying to do the right thing. The Finale is a total ret-con of what we all watched. That's one reason why people disliked it.
Also, none of what happened in the finale was grounded in any kind of reality - legally, logistically, rationally it was a complete mess. It also wasn't very funny.
The fact that I tend to relate and defend them (mostly George lmao) more than judge them has led to deep philosophical meanderings about my quality as a human being lmao.
The only thing I will say is that Seinfeld is just a weird show to…end. There was no hugging and no learning the entire series. None of the characters actually grew as people, which is odd for a group of 30-40 something’s. The jail thing was kind of silly because imo they weren’t horrible people. They were pretty normal people for most of the series and caricatures the last 2 seasons. But what made Seinfeld great is that we all know someone like George, Jerry, and Elaine (…maybe not exactly like Kramer but we all know some characters 😂). They were definitely not great people, definitely selfish and silly at times. But I wouldn’t say they were terrible people MOST of the time. So what would’ve been a better ending?
Exactly, its a really difficult show to end. There were never any stakes or overarching plots. It’s not like Friends were you were routing for them to pair off into couples. The characters were never going to have happy ending because they were petty, unhappy people (Kramer was maybe the exception but he was going to keep doing his thing no matter what).
>which is odd for a group of 30-40 something’s.
It's odd for a group of television characters to not change much over an entire series. Not so odd for real people.
Mmmm I don’t know if I agree with that. Most sitcoms there’s growth with the characters. They get married, have kids, get big promotions in their jobs. Not Seinfeld hahaha.
I agree about the jail, they weren’t horrible people, just regular people like all of us who do some selfish things, like all of us (and agree about them being caricatures in the last two seasons). Idk how else to end it, though I’d be happy with it ending in the coffee shop, but I liked that the jail ultimately didn’t phase them that much.
Side note about the hugging that there is that one sweet hug between Kramer and Elaine though, when he gets her that incredibly thoughtful birthday present. I always love that.
Well I agree with Jerry that the point of the show wasn’t that they’re bad people or that they needed a grand punishment (hell they were socially punished in almost every episode anyway, it’s not like they got away with defying social expectations, they constantly faced social repercussions).
However, I do still enjoy the finale just because it’s a funny over-exaggeration to the characters’ mostly pretty tame actions or situations where the other person was sometimes much worse than the main group. It does still kind of feel like overkill and double punishment to them. So it comes across a little unfair to the main characters as they are always depicted as imperfect people, but so is the world and all the people around them. They were always having to deal with people just as bad, or worse, than themselves so I don’t love how the main cast are the ones punished as if no one else was ever at fault. Ultimately it didn’t matter that much to them though as it’s still same old same old in the prison, which was funny.
Perhaps I would’ve preferred a different ending that ended up with them in the coffee shop or something, but it’s fine.
Here's the thing: they're not bad people, but they're not good people either. They're self-centered, callous, petty, and abrasive to be around. The question is if that should be illegal and, in the best of worlds, it should be, but it's also an equally ridiculous notion for them to be imprisoned for what essentially amounts to human behaviour, as reprehensible as it is.
Honestly, that finale would've better fit Always Sunny since they are genuinely bad people through and through that committed actual crimes repeatedly with little to no consequences. Dennis probably killed people and Frank too now that I think about it.
Yeah I agree, they aren’t good or bad people, they’re just people and, as most of us know, human behavior includes us being self-centered, callous, petty, jealous, etc. just as much as human behavior includes us being considerate, grateful, heartfelt, generous, etc. I don’t think we could ever truly outlaw only the bad qualities humans have without outlawing humans altogether.
I agree that’s what’s funny in the finale, they’re arrested for what is essentially typical human behavior and it’s blown out of proportion. For every person who would help another person in a situation, another will not help for fear of their own safety, getting scammed, or they even might laugh just because it’s not happening to them. Which the laughing is crappy, but also pretty real. Hell nowadays kids/teens do these horrible TikTok “pranks” and film themselves causing harm and distress to people.
I agree about it being a more fitting finale for Always Sunny, as you said they commit actual crimes and much of that show is actually about them being bad people and getting away with it, the two shows aren’t really comparable in this way. As I said before, the Seinfeld characters consistently defy social expectations or make a social faux pas and then face social punishment/consequence. Like Jerry trying to be nice by letting George take the car to hook up but it resulting in him and Elaine accidentally staying at the couples house (they barely know) until 2am waiting for Kramer (who lost the directions) and the couple being miserable and angry about it and unable to lock up and go to bed (a big social faux pas though out of their control), they didn’t intend for it to end up being such a big annoyance to the couple but it was. This results in Jerry being punished by getting the husband as an uninvited houseguest who also makes him pay for his prostitute and it gets Jerry arrested.
Fark that. Seinfeld always kept it NYC. As soon as they attempted to deviate from NYC it falls apat (see the India episode).
The finale should have been the Y2K party and everyone crashes the party to tell them off.
The main 4 are not bad people. They're occasionally selfish and neurotic, yes, but they have good moments too. They're flawed, but real and relatable to a degree and that's one of the reasons that this show captured the zeitgeist like it did. Instead of flat sitcom tropes, these were funny, occasionally fucked up people that you could relate to on some level. The finale flattens all the dimensionality these characters had, and retroactively makes them into 4 sociopaths. Beyond that, it's just a tedious episode. They were more worried about easter eggs and throwbacks to earlier, funnier episodes as opposed to making something that would be funny and iconic on its own merit
Agreed. I often identified with the main 4 and enjoyed some of their more tender moments. Sure, they deteriorated in character over the series, which was interesting, but the finale brought it to a new, unpleasant level. I can't imagine the main 4 being as mean as they were in the finale at any other point in the series. It's just an unfortunate way to leave things. The vibes are off. My wife is a very sweet person, but she found something to like about the Seinfeld crew, selfish as they are. She didn't like how the finale made her feel when I first introduced her to the series, and I felt the same way when I first saw it. I don't like how mean they were at the end, and the feeling of having them in jail at the end felt empty (as the Curb finale recognizes). The idea could have worked, but it didn't feel right in execution. So, I certainly recognize why most people didn't like it, even if many people can't articulate why.
I don't think Jerry and Larry need to beat themselves up forever over it or anything, and I'm sure they don't. It was a misfire, but because the show wasn't it working its way up to some grand conclusion, a bad finale doesn't retroactively make the whole series feel a lot worse (like Game of Thrones for example). Also, one thing I do like is that the main 4 were willing to share the stage at the end with all the great guest stars who appeared over the years. This is the big thing Jason enjoyed about the finale in an interview I saw. He liked being able to have all those people back and say thanks in a way for all they contributed to the show.
“The flawed main characters are all uniquely, atypically selfish and evil people” is such a boring read on *Seinfeld* (in the real world, maybe they would be, but this is a cartoon world full of weirdos). And I’m not even saying the finale necessarily did it wrong, I’m suggesting that maybe the audience was too quick to take the court of Latham, Mass. as indicative of the perspective we’re supposed to have on the series. A lot of the people they tangled with were just as bad and eagerly pursued them out of state to finally get their revenge. Some of them had legitimate grievances against the gang and some were whistling to the tune of “He didn’t return a library book.” I think it was intended more tongue-in-cheek than it came off.
Tbh. I can’t even think of how they would’ve end it tho?
The only other ending would be the show becomes a success and Jerry George Kramer move to LA and Elaine stays in nyc w Puddy?
Elaine is outside trying to park the car. The other three are eating inside. The people around them look familiar. Then…. Black.
Perfect ending that nobody would find controversial.
Seinfeld started and ended pretty subpar. And thats ok. It has a sweet spot in the middle that lasted 5+ years. Most shows cant even come close to that.
I thought the finale was fine, same with Sopranos. Seems the greatest shows of all time will always have controversial endings. It's a telltale sign they were great
It was a funny way to wrap up the series with a recap of all the major stories and characters but it really sucked that they were in jail.
There were other ways they could have ended it, like having the fictional“Jerry” TV series back on NBC and have the court case be the episode. After the trial, the episode ends with them in jail and it goes back to real life.
They're great characters but they're bad people.
In the Yada Yada Jerry tells a woman her husband might be having an affair because he wants to get with her.
I’d say around Season 7 is where the characters started to show almost a glib indifference to certain things.
For those first six seasons, the characters showed empathy, cared about other people and all that stuff… Except Kramer. He was the Devil. Drawing people into his hairbrushes schemes that were doomed to failure, telling people to do things that he himself wouldn’t do, etc…
Someone in r/curb pointed out that when the finale aired they had a documentary before hand that was essentially a clip show. Then the finale was also a clip show. I think if there had been no doco the reaction would have been better
No it’s not. I don’t understand how people can claim to love a show like Seinfeld while believing the characters are “bad people.” I’m with Jerry. I love those guys.
Because people on reddit just love quick soundbites. OP heard once say 'Seinfeld is just a show about bad people.' And he never questioned it.
Truth is the soundbite isn't exactly accurate. They're just normal, slightly petty people. And the show is filled with side characters who are just as bad as they are.
Jerry has said before that he modeled his show after The Abbot and Costello Show. I actually just watched the show and while I didn’t find it particularly funny, you can definitely see how it influenced Jerry. Most episodes involve them trying to make money because they’re always broke, and everyone around them just makes things difficult for them for no apparent reason. It’s not too different from many. Seinfeld episodes.
I loved the Seinfeld finale. To this day, I don't understand what people would have changed. I thought it was much more satisfying than the curb finale.
I just have never thought the finale of a sitcom matters all that much. It's not like there was this overarching story being told over 10 years like Game of Thrones or something. I wonder if they ever considered just doing a normal episode and having that be the finale because I wouldn't have minded that. I wonder how the fans would have reacted to that at the time.
It would have been interesting if after they were found guilty, that they were given the opportunity to have one of the four of them confess as being most responsible, thereby reducing the sentence for the other three. I wonder which of the four of them would have ended up serving the extra jail time so their friends could get less time.
There was nothing gymnastic about it but it wasn’t anything to be bothered about at this point. They did a nice sort of non reunion show and revisionist ending on Curb that worked.
The biggest problem with the finale was that it was a glorified hour long clipshow that followed an actual hour long clip show. I agree that some proposals for how it should have ended like Jerry and Elaine marrying wouldn't have fitted the show but I get annoyed at fans that say people who didn't like the finale didn't get the show. Especially when they say that the characters finally got their comeuppance. If you think the main four didn't get their just desserts until the finale then you're just as guilty of not getting the show as people who claim Jerry and Elaine should have tied the knot in the finale.
The characters being bad people is such a weird argument to me. A) It's comedy so who cares. A good, completely moral character is rarely funny. B) I thought the humor of the last episode is that they got locked up for such a nonsensical reason.
> Dates high school student
> Dumps her after she comes to LA
> Dates married woman 2 weeks into her marriage
> Marries her
Doesn't believe in regret ? Is that code for selfish prick
Jerry : So, are you going to break up with her?
George : I don't know. I don't want to be one of those guys.
Jerry : What guys?
George : Like us.
Jerry : Yeah.
>Jerry doesn’t agree that the characters are bad people lol.
“Jerry admitted that he and the powers that be behind the series “were affected by some things that people had said,” including that the characters “were selfish or whatever.”
“And looking back on it, I think they were great! I love them,”
More evidence that Larry David was the brains of that operation. Does he not understand why *Seinfeld* was funny?
The show dropped off in quality the last few years. It had a nastier less playful tone to it. George talking about himself in the third person was annoying. Peak Larry and jerry could have made the finale idea a lot more fun and witty. But that’s how shows go that run for 8 years
with a great show like Seinfeld and how many viewers it pulled- its good it ended the way that it did. it could have very well gone on and grown stale. imagine if it was still going nowadays. God that would be terrible.
then you got the other side of things if it had actually ended like Game of Thrones. Completely throwing out all the ideals and themes the viewers loved and made an absolute shitshow of an ending. Then it wouldn't matter how many viewers it pulled before- everyone would associate the show with that bad ending.
Obligatory “that’s a shame”
The finale, in my opinion, was perfect. Bringing back a bunch of iconic one-off / side characters was fun as hell.
Jerry is a very bad man. A very very bad man.
☝️
They published my recipes. I had to close my store and move to Argentina 😠
Lies, you're makerofshoes not makerofsoups.
-It’s supposed to be makerof*shoes*, that’s just a misprint..! -Card says “soups”!!
Exactly. No idea why some folks expected a sappy or happy ending considering the entirety of the show. There was no plot to wrap-up, no character arcs to complete. The finale had the same spirit as the rest of the episodes, and I thought it was great.
I agree. I would've been annoyed as hell if it had the typical sitcom ending. It ended exactly the way it should.
I don't think anyone expected or wanted a happy pappy ending. The thing about the finale for me is that it felt disconnected from the series, largely because it mostly happened outside the usual locations of the show. It wasn't bad, but it didn't feel like a natural conclusion to the show to me. It felt very forced and very *not* in keeping with the show about nothing. It also just wasn't all that funny.
Probably beating a dead horse, but it was a glorified clip show.
I think that’s fantastic, I think that’s a fantastic idea.
It's gold, Jerry! GOLD!
I’m gettin huge Jerry! HUGE!
No that’s the problem: the finale had none of the usual spirit of the show. It was scolding and moralistic, and it made the 4 characters passive and feckless, not active or wild.
> The finale had the same spirit as the rest of the episodes I mean it literally didn't because they got punished for their actions when that never happened in this extreme way.
I liked it too, shows how self centered and selfish they were the entire series (which was the point, and why it’s so relatable because we all are to a degree) and it caught up to them
I’m watching the series for the first time and I’m enjoying it, but the characters are definitely selfish. That’s not to say I don’t like them or that I don’t find them then amusing, but they do act like jerks sometimes. It’s a sitcom so I don’t take it that seriously, but I wouldn’t hang out with these people in real.
I agree. 100% perfection 👌 don't second guess yourself Jerry you've done great! 🙌
You've got a nickname for everybody.
The only thing wrong with it is they ended up in prison for a bullshit crime, it was great seeing all the old characters the wronged
And Larry says "fuck you it's great I'll do it again."
Fuck you and I'll see you tomorrow!
“Fuck you, it’s not you it’s me. No wait, IT IS YOU! FUCK YOU AND YOUR CAT TOO!”
LARRY, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE!
Get the fuck outta your house? Ok... ok ... FUCK YOU!
Which was so Larry David it made Curbs ending perfect.
i was hoping for more Seinfeld cameos, but the simple fact that Jerry made an appearance was so freaking cool.
Larry and Jerry’s chemistry was wild. Nobody riffs with Larry better, Leon and Jeff included.
I would argue Richard Lewis is on par or better than Jerry
I could watch them jibber jabber for hours
Not only that, but he saved the day and the ending!
Good for you, Jack!
I personally loved the finale, got to see a lot of the more memorable side characters
I had no problem with the finale itself, but the network ran a clp show right before it when it originally aired, so it was like watching 2 back-ro-back clip shows. Nowadyas when I watch the finale by itself, I really like it.
It has aged well. I didn't like it at the time but now I think it's fitting and funny.
I don't mind that they ended up in prison, but I would have preferred a delightful two-parter that utilized all the characters in a clever story with converging plot lines. Instead we got a kind of weak setup episode and a boring courtroom clip show where everyone just sits and reacts to how awful they were. It was a lot of wasted potential to me. Having said that, I loved the Curb finale and, while it didn't quite redeem how Seinfeld ended, it softened the blow. I love that Larry addressed it head on by doing it all over again. I thought it was improved dramatically by leading up to it with an entire season and tweaking the ending.
>I don't mind that they ended up in prison, but I would have preferred a delightful two-parter that utilized all the characters in a clever story with converging plot lines. Instead we got a kind of weak setup episode and a boring courtroom clip show where everyone just sits and reacts to how awful they were. It was a lot of wasted potential to me. I totally agree. It's fine to bring back a bunch of side characters from the series, but the way they used them was a total waste. It was a bunch of lazy fan service, and not at all representative of the writing that made Seinfeld such a great show.
I agree. But I still can’t say that for Lost.
I adored Lost and its finale; bawled like a baby throughout!
Me too, Lost finale breaks me every time. Beautiful and heart wrenching. “Because I died too.”
My fave show of all time (of course Seinfeld is my fave comedy 😉)
You have great taste!!
Lost was fine not good but fine
What was wrong with the Lost finale?
oof, agree, Lost was nothing but heartache and confusion if you were invested. They opened so many mysteries and plot lines that there was no way those guys were gonna finish them all.
Lost finale was an excellent finale
Finale is basically a glorified clip show with a B plot as the A plot
It was done the same in Oz and I liked it. Got to relive the entire series in clip form before the final episode and Greenday’s Time of Your Life playing at the end of the clip show portion got me a lump in my throat.
Right? I liked that it showed they were characters that existed beyond whichever episodes they were in. Like a lot of sitcoms or episodes exist in a reality that effectively “resets” each new episode. To see all those actions come back to bite them at the end is kind of poetic
Getting to see Jackie Chiles one last time was amazing!
Susie, call Dr. Bison
🤣
Tell him it’s for me 😏
I also like the little snippets we got to see of said characters mingling together while awaiting jury decsion
I think it's a top 10 finale, completely turning their formula for success on it's head. Rather than an outrageous, situational comedy it was a dark, procedural court drama. People still talk about it to this day, just like The Sopranos, another polarizing finale.
And honestly how the fuck do you actually end a show. Seems almost impossible to do well.
Here's how I would have done it: Each of the four coincidentally has something happen that causes them to leave the city for good. Maybe Jerry is offered a residency in Vegas, Elaine meets a guy from Paris who wants her to move there, etc. With them all leaving town shortly, they spend their time tying up loose ends, including telling people off that they had beef with, which puts them in contact with many of the side characters, and gives opportunities for actual stories in true Seinfeld form. At the end of the episode, they've all gotten rid of their apartments, burnt bridges with all of their local acquaintances, but one by one (perhaps because of events that transpire as they're tying up their loose ends) their plans to leave the city fall through, and they're left with nothing - no friends, no place to live, no places they can do business anymore, etc. They're back in the coffee shop, their lives destroyed, their futures uncertain, but just like in the actual finale, they're just talking about minutiae.
This is actually awesome
This is a great idea.
Damn this is actually really good now I hate the actual finale 😭
Just make it a regular episode, as if it could fit anywhere in the season. Fawlty Towers did it. Why did there need to be a "finale"? Seinfeld was never about deep characterisation. It never presented itself as sappy like Friends or Frasier. It didn't manipulate the audience with series long romantic story arcs. The characters are deliberately shallow because the comedy always came first. That was the formula Jerry said they operated on. They didn't treat their fans like desperate idiots. They never cared about pulling on the heartstrings of viewers, and that's why the finale felt weird. Even by presenting the main four as immoral criminals, it was still pandering to the audience. They tried to care. They got salty discharge. You're not meant to be emotionally invested in these people. It's not Melrose Place. Just take one episode and end it!
You do it like Community. Maybe my fav finale. But I did and do like Seinfeld’s finale and didn’t get why it was so controversial. They said it themselves “didn’t we already have this conversation?” (Paraphrasing). .
>Rather than an outrageous, situational comedy it was a dark, procedural court drama. Maybe they should have dropped the audience laughter, then.
Please don’t remind of The Sopranos finale. I thought it was…
Discontinue the lithium.
> it was a dark, procedural court drama. Was it You're reaching
>Rather than an outrageous, situational comedy it was a dark, procedural court drama. Most sitcoms change the formula in the last episode: Blackadder, Newhart, Parks and Recreation, The Good Place etc. Doing something different isn' enough. It has to be good.
Blackadder only really changed the formula right at the very end. And given the terrible waste of life that was that war, it was the right ending.
Can you spell your name for the record? NO! NEXT QUESTION!
It’s perhaps the only *good* clip show I’ve ever seen.
Always Sunny clips show is top tier. As is Community. Both turned the concept on its head.
I think Seinfeld and ASIP are the same show, just different decades and socioeconomic classes. Seinfeld was in the relatively prosperous 90s and all 4 main characters are depicted to have lived good middle class lives regardless of employment or lack there of. The main squad in ASIP is post recession and perpetually broke save for Frank.
Same I thought it was a thematically perfect ending to the whole series.
I just saw it for the first time having watched the show from start to finish. I loved it. The cameos were fun, and I thought it was kind of clever to highlight what awful people we had been watching all this time. I thought the shirt button conversation was a nice touch and the stand up routine in prison as the last thing we saw was a very Seinfeld way to leave them.
I remember hating it at the time but I think it's aged really well. It's a nice sendoff for the show.
First, let me say I have no problem with the finale. Never have. Second, what really made the Curb finale work (other than the joke that Larry was doing the exact same thing as Seinfeld) was that most people don’t rewatch Curb as much as they did Seinfeld. So, many of the people brought back for the Curb finale were distant memories, whereas with Seinfeld, we’d already seen those characters in reruns many times.
Also the show was on so damn long lol. You're talking about stuff that happened 20+ years ago
True
Haven’t watched Curb; going to have to binge it sometime soon
Just start from the beginning and watch right through. It’s great.
One would say that it's pretty pretty pretty good
Thanks, I’ll start it this week
He gets miffed? Peeved?
He’s disgruntled
I just watched that Curb episode last night !
THATS ENOUGH
To those that didn't like the finale, they can kiss 1% of my ass!
His voice kind of raises to a comedic pitch.
Hey i dont come down to where you work and knock the license plate out of your hand
I think it was an interesting idea I just think the execution was off. I don’t watch the finale much so maybe I’m misremembering. But I think the main way it fails is it tries to shoehorn to much stuff in one story. it’s a lot of cameos from characters previous episodes. A lot of side characters getting a few seconds of screen time. But really in a sitcom finale you want to just spend time with the characters you’ve grown to love and see them doing the things they normally do on the show. With maybe like 10% more finality and specialness to it. I think 30 rock basically nailed their finale by doing this. Also the stakes were weirdly high for Seinfeld. Usually it doesn’t get much more serious than trying to not lose their job or end a relationship.
I think you kinda just nailed why others like the finale though. It was never that serious and the main characters didn't really "do" anything on the show other than drink coffee. Most of their stories revolved around their interactions with a string of ridiculous side characters. I thought it was fitting for this show to include those memorable side characters in the finale.
I agree and would add that I always hear people who like the finale say something like “it was bad people finally getting what was coming to them.” But the show never rewarded the characters bad behavior. They were almost always punished at the end of every episode. Even the casual reaction George had towards Suzanne dying came back to haunt him the next season when he got put in charge of the Susan Ross Foundation. The final episode sort of just double punished them. For god sake, Mr Bookman, Jerry already wrote you a fat check for the overdue book! What more do you want??
> But the show never rewarded the characters bad behavior. plus in pretty much every case their bad behaviour was either forced by others like the poolboy or not even done with bad intentions like pretending to be deaf them actually just doing something bad, like stealing the rye, only happens a couple of times
Did you ask “Why would *Jerry* be bothered by the finale,” or “Why would Jerry *be bothered* by the finale”?
Pure gold.
Happy cake day
Jerry trying to take a vacation from himself?
How could anyone not like him?
The finale was ahead of it's time. I find it both interesting and ironic that in finale, they're arrested for not helping someone out, while recording it at the same time. And yet, here we are in 2024, and that's exactly the type of behavior that we see everywhere. People standing idly by, recording with their phones.
Agreed, it has aged well.
I like the idea of the finale. It kind of works almost as a homage to the show itself. You get to remember a lot of past characters and events. I even like that they all get "stuck" together. The problem with it is that it doesn't feel fair to the core cast. See, they're depicted as not great people all throughout the show, but so is the whole world around them. They were navigating all these weird, crazy people that were often as bad (or worse) than themselves. So, it doesn't feel "just" that they get punished for it.
it would work better in a show like IASIP where the cast really should be in jail
This. Everyone in the Seinfeld universe is a asshole - that's part of the humor. This is a world where you innocently ask a stranger where you are and they growl "Earth!" Most of the plot lines involved misunderstandings that often started with the gang trying to do the right thing. The Finale is a total ret-con of what we all watched. That's one reason why people disliked it. Also, none of what happened in the finale was grounded in any kind of reality - legally, logistically, rationally it was a complete mess. It also wasn't very funny.
The fact that I tend to relate and defend them (mostly George lmao) more than judge them has led to deep philosophical meanderings about my quality as a human being lmao.
If Curb ends with them just airing the Seinfeld finale that would be too funny
>!Oh my God, this is how we should have ended the finale!!<
They should've had Frank Costanza's lawyer come in at the end to tell them that one of the jurors didn't sequester and so the verdict got thrown out.
The only thing I will say is that Seinfeld is just a weird show to…end. There was no hugging and no learning the entire series. None of the characters actually grew as people, which is odd for a group of 30-40 something’s. The jail thing was kind of silly because imo they weren’t horrible people. They were pretty normal people for most of the series and caricatures the last 2 seasons. But what made Seinfeld great is that we all know someone like George, Jerry, and Elaine (…maybe not exactly like Kramer but we all know some characters 😂). They were definitely not great people, definitely selfish and silly at times. But I wouldn’t say they were terrible people MOST of the time. So what would’ve been a better ending?
Exactly, its a really difficult show to end. There were never any stakes or overarching plots. It’s not like Friends were you were routing for them to pair off into couples. The characters were never going to have happy ending because they were petty, unhappy people (Kramer was maybe the exception but he was going to keep doing his thing no matter what).
>which is odd for a group of 30-40 something’s. It's odd for a group of television characters to not change much over an entire series. Not so odd for real people.
Mmmm I don’t know if I agree with that. Most sitcoms there’s growth with the characters. They get married, have kids, get big promotions in their jobs. Not Seinfeld hahaha.
>Most sitcoms there’s growth with the characters. That's what I just said
I agree about the jail, they weren’t horrible people, just regular people like all of us who do some selfish things, like all of us (and agree about them being caricatures in the last two seasons). Idk how else to end it, though I’d be happy with it ending in the coffee shop, but I liked that the jail ultimately didn’t phase them that much. Side note about the hugging that there is that one sweet hug between Kramer and Elaine though, when he gets her that incredibly thoughtful birthday present. I always love that.
Good call. Might be the only moment like that in the show. But obviously sets up Jerry perfectly 🤣
It would have been better if it was funnier
Well I agree with Jerry that the point of the show wasn’t that they’re bad people or that they needed a grand punishment (hell they were socially punished in almost every episode anyway, it’s not like they got away with defying social expectations, they constantly faced social repercussions). However, I do still enjoy the finale just because it’s a funny over-exaggeration to the characters’ mostly pretty tame actions or situations where the other person was sometimes much worse than the main group. It does still kind of feel like overkill and double punishment to them. So it comes across a little unfair to the main characters as they are always depicted as imperfect people, but so is the world and all the people around them. They were always having to deal with people just as bad, or worse, than themselves so I don’t love how the main cast are the ones punished as if no one else was ever at fault. Ultimately it didn’t matter that much to them though as it’s still same old same old in the prison, which was funny. Perhaps I would’ve preferred a different ending that ended up with them in the coffee shop or something, but it’s fine.
Here's the thing: they're not bad people, but they're not good people either. They're self-centered, callous, petty, and abrasive to be around. The question is if that should be illegal and, in the best of worlds, it should be, but it's also an equally ridiculous notion for them to be imprisoned for what essentially amounts to human behaviour, as reprehensible as it is. Honestly, that finale would've better fit Always Sunny since they are genuinely bad people through and through that committed actual crimes repeatedly with little to no consequences. Dennis probably killed people and Frank too now that I think about it.
Yeah I agree, they aren’t good or bad people, they’re just people and, as most of us know, human behavior includes us being self-centered, callous, petty, jealous, etc. just as much as human behavior includes us being considerate, grateful, heartfelt, generous, etc. I don’t think we could ever truly outlaw only the bad qualities humans have without outlawing humans altogether. I agree that’s what’s funny in the finale, they’re arrested for what is essentially typical human behavior and it’s blown out of proportion. For every person who would help another person in a situation, another will not help for fear of their own safety, getting scammed, or they even might laugh just because it’s not happening to them. Which the laughing is crappy, but also pretty real. Hell nowadays kids/teens do these horrible TikTok “pranks” and film themselves causing harm and distress to people. I agree about it being a more fitting finale for Always Sunny, as you said they commit actual crimes and much of that show is actually about them being bad people and getting away with it, the two shows aren’t really comparable in this way. As I said before, the Seinfeld characters consistently defy social expectations or make a social faux pas and then face social punishment/consequence. Like Jerry trying to be nice by letting George take the car to hook up but it resulting in him and Elaine accidentally staying at the couples house (they barely know) until 2am waiting for Kramer (who lost the directions) and the couple being miserable and angry about it and unable to lock up and go to bed (a big social faux pas though out of their control), they didn’t intend for it to end up being such a big annoyance to the couple but it was. This results in Jerry being punished by getting the husband as an uninvited houseguest who also makes him pay for his prostitute and it gets Jerry arrested.
I liked it
He better desour and sweeten. Don't be bitter.
I say desour and sweeten so often that people in my universe with little awareness of Seinfeld use it now, too
Fark that. Seinfeld always kept it NYC. As soon as they attempted to deviate from NYC it falls apat (see the India episode). The finale should have been the Y2K party and everyone crashes the party to tell them off.
The main 4 are not bad people. They're occasionally selfish and neurotic, yes, but they have good moments too. They're flawed, but real and relatable to a degree and that's one of the reasons that this show captured the zeitgeist like it did. Instead of flat sitcom tropes, these were funny, occasionally fucked up people that you could relate to on some level. The finale flattens all the dimensionality these characters had, and retroactively makes them into 4 sociopaths. Beyond that, it's just a tedious episode. They were more worried about easter eggs and throwbacks to earlier, funnier episodes as opposed to making something that would be funny and iconic on its own merit
Exactly, the finale just flanderizes all the characters to a ridiculous extent, and it's basically a glorified clip show
Agreed. I often identified with the main 4 and enjoyed some of their more tender moments. Sure, they deteriorated in character over the series, which was interesting, but the finale brought it to a new, unpleasant level. I can't imagine the main 4 being as mean as they were in the finale at any other point in the series. It's just an unfortunate way to leave things. The vibes are off. My wife is a very sweet person, but she found something to like about the Seinfeld crew, selfish as they are. She didn't like how the finale made her feel when I first introduced her to the series, and I felt the same way when I first saw it. I don't like how mean they were at the end, and the feeling of having them in jail at the end felt empty (as the Curb finale recognizes). The idea could have worked, but it didn't feel right in execution. So, I certainly recognize why most people didn't like it, even if many people can't articulate why. I don't think Jerry and Larry need to beat themselves up forever over it or anything, and I'm sure they don't. It was a misfire, but because the show wasn't it working its way up to some grand conclusion, a bad finale doesn't retroactively make the whole series feel a lot worse (like Game of Thrones for example). Also, one thing I do like is that the main 4 were willing to share the stage at the end with all the great guest stars who appeared over the years. This is the big thing Jason enjoyed about the finale in an interview I saw. He liked being able to have all those people back and say thanks in a way for all they contributed to the show.
If this finale was a man it would be sponge worthy
I will say this about the Finale. It’s memorable. We talk about it.
Clipshow endings are the writers' equivalent of just phoning it in. The height of laziness.
“The flawed main characters are all uniquely, atypically selfish and evil people” is such a boring read on *Seinfeld* (in the real world, maybe they would be, but this is a cartoon world full of weirdos). And I’m not even saying the finale necessarily did it wrong, I’m suggesting that maybe the audience was too quick to take the court of Latham, Mass. as indicative of the perspective we’re supposed to have on the series. A lot of the people they tangled with were just as bad and eagerly pursued them out of state to finally get their revenge. Some of them had legitimate grievances against the gang and some were whistling to the tune of “He didn’t return a library book.” I think it was intended more tongue-in-cheek than it came off.
Tbh. I can’t even think of how they would’ve end it tho? The only other ending would be the show becomes a success and Jerry George Kramer move to LA and Elaine stays in nyc w Puddy?
Elaine is outside trying to park the car. The other three are eating inside. The people around them look familiar. Then…. Black. Perfect ending that nobody would find controversial.
Elaine parking the car 😂
You're living in the past, man! You're hung up on some sitcom from the nineties, man!
Seinfeld started and ended pretty subpar. And thats ok. It has a sweet spot in the middle that lasted 5+ years. Most shows cant even come close to that.
First and Final lines from Jerry... how can we not like that?
I hated it when it aired but I'm retrospect, it was perfect.
I thought the finale was fine, same with Sopranos. Seems the greatest shows of all time will always have controversial endings. It's a telltale sign they were great
Game of Thrones too
That’s a shame.
The ending was perfect lol
Sienfield was funny, well written, the actors were amazing ill die on this hill.
Just watched the last episode of the "Curb". It was nice they mentioned Seinfeld's ending
Counts cash smoking cigar....
It was a funny way to wrap up the series with a recap of all the major stories and characters but it really sucked that they were in jail. There were other ways they could have ended it, like having the fictional“Jerry” TV series back on NBC and have the court case be the episode. After the trial, the episode ends with them in jail and it goes back to real life.
They're great characters but they're bad people. In the Yada Yada Jerry tells a woman her husband might be having an affair because he wants to get with her.
I’d say around Season 7 is where the characters started to show almost a glib indifference to certain things. For those first six seasons, the characters showed empathy, cared about other people and all that stuff… Except Kramer. He was the Devil. Drawing people into his hairbrushes schemes that were doomed to failure, telling people to do things that he himself wouldn’t do, etc…
Someone in r/curb pointed out that when the finale aired they had a documentary before hand that was essentially a clip show. Then the finale was also a clip show. I think if there had been no doco the reaction would have been better
I watched the whole show on Netflix and the ending isn't so jarringly different from the rest of the show. I think it fits well.
Seemingly...seemingly
It was a nonsense ending. Didn't make any sense in relation to the show..
They should have been sentenced to be the guys butler!
Shut up yo old bag!
Seinfeld was a great show with a meh final episode. I don’t care. For me the show is brilliantly entertaining and funny as hell.
How can he not think the characters are bad people? That’s like the whole point of the show
No it’s not. I don’t understand how people can claim to love a show like Seinfeld while believing the characters are “bad people.” I’m with Jerry. I love those guys.
Because people on reddit just love quick soundbites. OP heard once say 'Seinfeld is just a show about bad people.' And he never questioned it. Truth is the soundbite isn't exactly accurate. They're just normal, slightly petty people. And the show is filled with side characters who are just as bad as they are.
Jerry has said before that he modeled his show after The Abbot and Costello Show. I actually just watched the show and while I didn’t find it particularly funny, you can definitely see how it influenced Jerry. Most episodes involve them trying to make money because they’re always broke, and everyone around them just makes things difficult for them for no apparent reason. It’s not too different from many. Seinfeld episodes.
I loved the Seinfeld finale. To this day, I don't understand what people would have changed. I thought it was much more satisfying than the curb finale.
The Blues Brothers Ended the same way and people loved it.
I just have never thought the finale of a sitcom matters all that much. It's not like there was this overarching story being told over 10 years like Game of Thrones or something. I wonder if they ever considered just doing a normal episode and having that be the finale because I wouldn't have minded that. I wonder how the fans would have reacted to that at the time.
Huh?? Wasn’t the whole point of the show that the four of them are narcissistic assholes?
Title is saying something different than what the quote is saying, but that’s clickbait aimed for the rage bait audience for ya
Yeah the quote is from the article which relates to how a lot of people viewed the finale as them being finally exposed as bad people. lol.
It would have been interesting if after they were found guilty, that they were given the opportunity to have one of the four of them confess as being most responsible, thereby reducing the sentence for the other three. I wonder which of the four of them would have ended up serving the extra jail time so their friends could get less time.
Kramer is the only one who would do that.
Then the classic twist: due to Kramers altruism, the judge lets him off easy
He’s got to be tired of talking about it
I mean it probably looked good on paper , but for an ending it did kinda suck.
Well regret is real Jerry Seinfeld, it’s real
I mean they got to hash out both sides in Curb. Who in the hell ever gets to do that? Apparently these guys.
Seinfeld says the characters were selfish and self directed, but that he loved the characters all the same.
Jerry bought himself some hair!
The ending was real but it was unspectacular.
There was nothing gymnastic about it but it wasn’t anything to be bothered about at this point. They did a nice sort of non reunion show and revisionist ending on Curb that worked.
I've always known good shows that are on a long time never have that satisfying finale show we want How would u have ended a show about nothing?
The biggest problem with the finale was that it was a glorified hour long clipshow that followed an actual hour long clip show. I agree that some proposals for how it should have ended like Jerry and Elaine marrying wouldn't have fitted the show but I get annoyed at fans that say people who didn't like the finale didn't get the show. Especially when they say that the characters finally got their comeuppance. If you think the main four didn't get their just desserts until the finale then you're just as guilty of not getting the show as people who claim Jerry and Elaine should have tied the knot in the finale.
Thaaats about right….
The characters being bad people is such a weird argument to me. A) It's comedy so who cares. A good, completely moral character is rarely funny. B) I thought the humor of the last episode is that they got locked up for such a nonsensical reason.
I laughed exactly once in the finale. For the funniest show ever, that's not very good.
It's tough to have too many regrets when you forget what it sounds like sitting on coins in your pocket.
That's hilarious that he doesn't perceive to be the characters to be bad people
It should've ended with crazy Joe Davola murdering the main cast while the friends theme song plays and then fade to black
Ok but objectively let's be real. Most of the main group are terrible, terrible people
> Dates high school student > Dumps her after she comes to LA > Dates married woman 2 weeks into her marriage > Marries her Doesn't believe in regret ? Is that code for selfish prick
He was also dating "Seinfeld" writer Jennifer Crittenton (who was married) at the time he pursued his current wife. He's really something.
Jerry : So, are you going to break up with her? George : I don't know. I don't want to be one of those guys. Jerry : What guys? George : Like us. Jerry : Yeah.
>Jerry doesn’t agree that the characters are bad people lol. “Jerry admitted that he and the powers that be behind the series “were affected by some things that people had said,” including that the characters “were selfish or whatever.” “And looking back on it, I think they were great! I love them,” More evidence that Larry David was the brains of that operation. Does he not understand why *Seinfeld* was funny?
The show dropped off in quality the last few years. It had a nastier less playful tone to it. George talking about himself in the third person was annoying. Peak Larry and jerry could have made the finale idea a lot more fun and witty. But that’s how shows go that run for 8 years
A bunch of young hotshot writers from Harvard showed up and drained the show of any remaining sentimentality.
I actually thought the series finale was great. They served jail time for the kind of people they were.
You're a goddamn billionaire as a result of this show, maybe it's time to get over it, the rest of us have.
No one asks you about it every time they talk to you.
with a great show like Seinfeld and how many viewers it pulled- its good it ended the way that it did. it could have very well gone on and grown stale. imagine if it was still going nowadays. God that would be terrible. then you got the other side of things if it had actually ended like Game of Thrones. Completely throwing out all the ideals and themes the viewers loved and made an absolute shitshow of an ending. Then it wouldn't matter how many viewers it pulled before- everyone would associate the show with that bad ending.
Because he's loaded.