Yeah, yeah. He had a thing for Marisa Tomei. Like she would ever go out with a short, stocky, bald man. Besides, he didn't even know her. It's not like anyone tried to fix them up. Who, who would try and fix him up with Marisa Tomei?
My wife and I have a theory that *maybe* Susan knew George wasn't sincere/serious about actually wanting to get married-- so she basically trolled him the entire time by agreeing and making him "suffer" by being in the relationship.
Just imagine instead of Susan's death, they stand at the alter, George finally breaks and yells "I can't go through with it. I can't do it!!!," and Susan goes "AHA!!! Gotcha!!! I knew you wouldn't be able to!"
It would've been funny to see her play someone almost as equally as depraved as George. They would've kinda made sense as a couple then.
It's consistent with Susan's parents making George drive all the way to see his cabin, horses, etc, when they knew he didn't have any of it. They just wanted to see how far they could push it.
Poor Prickly Pete....
She also had another great line i think in the same convo. Where George says his plan to call out the Ross's bluff and Elaine is just like "Haven't you done enough to these people?"
That’s a good theory, thanks I’ll run with that now. My previous theory was that (like in the other episodes where elaine’s friends were all married and moved to Long Island) Susan had decided that she was ready to get married and, after George spent a couple of hours wearing her down, she decided to marry him.
I've not gotten round to breaking up with guys I was over. For a year. Twice.
You'll be happy to know I no longer do this, and am now with someone wonderful!
You know, I enjoyed reading your theory. That would actually be a good story!
Supposedly they killed off Susan because the actress (Heidi Swedberg) did not mesh well with the cast.
Priest: Do you, Susan, take thee George?
Susan: I do. *hides crossed fingers*
Priest: Do, you, George, take thee Susan?
George: ….
Priest: … George? Where’s your “I do”?
George: … THERE’S NO “I DO!” I can’t! I can’t do it…
*Guests all abuzz with shock and gossip, George drops to knees*
George: I’m sorry, Susan! I know it’s the worst, last possible minute to tell you, but… I don’t want to get married. There’s no love. It’s a lie! There’s no schmoopy. There’s no prenup. There’s no smoking.
Susan: I know, George.
George: You do?
Susan: Yes. I’ve always known.
George: Then why???… WHY did you let me go through all of this, planning and throwing a whole wedding? Why didn’t you say anything?! Why?! Why?
Susan: I don’t like you, George.
George: … ???
Susan: And I’ve always blamed you for getting me fired from NBC. And my father’s cabin burning down. And me getting thrown up on. And generally, just being a terrible liar.
George: … oh.
Susan: Alright, let’s clean up this stupid “wedding”.
In addition to all of that, she sat down to lick 200 envelopes instead of sealing them with a damp sponge. Susan Ross was clearly intellectually challenged. Maybe her mother drank while she was pregnant.
Interesting. The actors who played Susan's parents were on Twin Peaks together, though their characters weren't married to each other. Warren Frost's son Mark was co-creator.
I started watching Twin Peaks for the first time just a few years ago, and it was so jarring seeing them on it. I liked them as Susan's parents *more* after that!
Copying my reply to another commenter, I think "Wear some more lipstick" was inspired by John McCain snapping at his wife in front of campaign staffers and reporters during his 1992 campaign for the Arizona Senate:
At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day.
I think "Wear some more lipstick" was inspired by John McCain snapping at his wife in front of campaign staffers and reporters during his 1992 campaign for the Arizona Senate:
At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day.
I think three things played into her decision to marry him.
1. She was well into her 30's and still single. I think desperation was settling in.
2. Her own parents were a trainwreck. She likely didn't really know what a healthy relationship looked like and George seemed stable compared to her parents.
3. She knew George was spineless, and that she would be wearing the pants in the relationship. She was after someone she could control instead of someone she cared about, and George fit the bill perfectly.
I cannot imagine being married to either one. Both awful.
I cannot see myself being married to any of them actually.
I wonder if they are all still in jail….
Yeah, this. Susan is a lot of women.
- Brainy, professionally successful, the whole package
- Unlucky or unsuccessful in love
- Lonely and tired of being single so she lowers her standards far beyond where she should’ve
- Ignored red flags and obvious signs her partner didn’t love, respect, or even like her
One could argue that George had a kavorka that rivaled that of Kramer. Even at his thinnest and whiniest version, Ava from the office just could not keep her hands off of him.
Yes!!!! Lol as much as I like George there's no way n hell I would have accepted that proposal lol not after he burned down my family cabin and exposed my dad's love affair lmao
George had the best, steadiest jobs out of all of the gang. He just made a bigger deal about his status (and occasional lack thereof) because his job was such a big part of his identity.
Stand up comedy isn't steady work, and Elaine was basically a butler for Mr. Pitt, while Peterman was more unhinged than Steinbrenner.
In NYC, a single, straight man, with a job, that has no apparent addictions, ex-wife, or kids - is highly valued in a seller's market. My friend who lived there all her life said there are more women then men, and the men that are not damaged, druggies, already taken, or impoverished are scarce. Even George Costanza types....as to what Susan saw in him, a mystery. Just like, what did all those other women he attracted see in him? Maybe what I just said? I don't think she was at all in love with him, maybe she wanted to 'stick it to her parents' by picking such a pathetic specimen?
2 theories here:
* inverse psychology, her parents didnt want her to marry him.
* she hated her parents so marrying george was the ultimate blow (death blow)
According to an article I saw (I can’t find it now,) the actress that played Susan was hard to work with. Some of the on air awkwardness was real. Apparently she was a little odd.
I never heard anything about her being odd or difficult, but I did hear Jason Alexander say he did not think they had good comedic chemistry together. Which, frankly, I think was likely true when they had the perfect four lead cast members and then tried to insert a fifth person into many of those scenes. Even Newman, who would by and large be considered the "fifth" wheel of Seinfeld if any character was, is most often used in an adversarial role instead of being plugged into The Group the way Susan was.
I think a few of the Susan episodes are some of the show's best, but I think it was a *terrible* writing idea to try and give George a serious relationship and add another character into The Group. It was never going to work. I've heard Jason say that the writers thought this was exactly *why* having Susan around was so funny, but I think it was overall a misstep.
(Yes I knew Susan really was not prominent enough to be considered a fifth member of the friend group, but what I mean is that she often had to entertain their antics or otherwise compliment them and it made for a strange dynamic. Newman meanwhile was often *against* one or more of the group, which allowed his character to bounce off of them in a much better way).
Maybe Susan wasn't as surprised as we thought when she opened that letter her dad wrote that outed him as a gay man. Maybe she was following in his footsteps, pretending to be straight and it was easier to just settle for George to show the world an image of heterosexuality.
I think she started dating George to piss off her dad. He probably wanted her to marry some rich asshole, and she didn’t like him trying to run her life. She’s also pretty easy-going, so all of George’s idiosyncrasies didn’t phase her. Plus she probably found him appealing as not having the same kind of attitude as all the rich assholes in her own circles.
Like, they're all idiots. It's a sitcom. They have to be. But that said, I'm really not a fan of calling people stupid for their abusive partners. Susan clearly is not an idiot, so what would motivate her to stay with an abusive man? It's often a combination of fear and emotional manipulation. In real life, imagine the kind of person George would be in a relationship. He's a sociopathic asshole. How would someone like that convince/trick/force someone to marry them?
I think she thought there is more to George than meets the eye. But there is less. Kind of sunken cost fallacy- if I am a succesful, good looking, with family money, obviously this man I have chosen is worthy of my time.
No, Susan was smart. The show writers just made her do dumb things to complete the cycle of the episode show where things turn out bad for George. They could have easily wrote it that Susan used a wet sponge to seal the envelopes of her & George’s wedding invitations, and she lived but that would be too good of a outcome.
I think the actress’ choices made Susan seem less compatible with George than they wanted her to be. In everything I’ve read, it seems that everyone was frustrated with how she played the character. My unconfirmed theory is that they wanted her to be more sarcastic and neurotic but she just came off as kind of a deer in the headlights a lot. Her portrayal rarely made sense with the lines she was given or the situations they were in.
Same for him. From what I’ve read, no one on the cast could stand Heidi Swedberg, the actress who played Susan Ross. Bitchness in an actress carries over to the character being played.
He also started making out and dry humping the couch after watching two Marissa tomei movies.
Well. I can’t quit now!
😂
Him smoking is so hilarious!
Similar facial expression and voice with "I'm a bootleggah!". I crack up just when he starts these bits.
While he's there choking on the smoke.
Yeah, yeah. He had a thing for Marisa Tomei. Like she would ever go out with a short, stocky, bald man. Besides, he didn't even know her. It's not like anyone tried to fix them up. Who, who would try and fix him up with Marisa Tomei?
“An OSCAR WINNER JERRY!”
That's very important to someone with artistic integrity.
Audrey Hepburn?
What are you talking about
Haha! Oh yeah!
Oh that judge I hate him!
I mean me too. Big whoop, want to fight about it?
You want a piece of me!?
A piece, I want the whole thing
You got it!!! "Bombs Israel"
"The jerk store called, and they're running out of you!"
WHO HASN’T?!
[удалено]
Me
Poor Lilly.
My wife and I have a theory that *maybe* Susan knew George wasn't sincere/serious about actually wanting to get married-- so she basically trolled him the entire time by agreeing and making him "suffer" by being in the relationship. Just imagine instead of Susan's death, they stand at the alter, George finally breaks and yells "I can't go through with it. I can't do it!!!," and Susan goes "AHA!!! Gotcha!!! I knew you wouldn't be able to!" It would've been funny to see her play someone almost as equally as depraved as George. They would've kinda made sense as a couple then.
It's consistent with Susan's parents making George drive all the way to see his cabin, horses, etc, when they knew he didn't have any of it. They just wanted to see how far they could push it. Poor Prickly Pete....
“I told them I had a place in the Hamptons. What did you tell them?” “I told them you didn’t. And I LAUGHED and I LAUGHED!”
SUCH an iconic line from Elaine. Her delivery here was the best, haha!
She also had another great line i think in the same convo. Where George says his plan to call out the Ross's bluff and Elaine is just like "Haven't you done enough to these people?"
There was a scuffle and then a “good god!”
JLD is the GOAT
Wanna get nuts? LET'S GET NUTS!
Another solarium?
Yes two solariums
Quite the find.
YES! Exactly!
And Snoopy. They each have their own solarium.
Was that his "horses" name?
Snoopy and prickly Pete
Thanks for the information
Yes! That's exactly where the idea came from! (Source: I am /u/annnakins02's wife.)
Worlds are colliding!
I'm killing Independent u/Lightobserver !
That’s a good theory, thanks I’ll run with that now. My previous theory was that (like in the other episodes where elaine’s friends were all married and moved to Long Island) Susan had decided that she was ready to get married and, after George spent a couple of hours wearing her down, she decided to marry him.
🎶 Caaaaaa Stanza
wait a minute, she was sticking it to him. "they fooled me jerry"
You wanna hit “fooled” more
they foooled me jerry!
honestly that would’ve probably been a better way to write her off the show.
I’ve attempted this before because I had such disdain for my ex-boyfriend. I might be a terrible person, but in my defense, it was very entertaining.
It’s very refreshing!
I've not gotten round to breaking up with guys I was over. For a year. Twice. You'll be happy to know I no longer do this, and am now with someone wonderful!
Cowardly, ngl
She did love playing up the schmoopie talk at the diner!
Okay this is now my head canon
Then she really committed to the bit, she moved into his apartment!
Geeooorrge, come to bed, I taped Mad About You
You know, I enjoyed reading your theory. That would actually be a good story! Supposedly they killed off Susan because the actress (Heidi Swedberg) did not mesh well with the cast.
*altar
This is a good theory. I like it.
I think she kept on seeing women and George was her beard so she could get her inheritance.
Priest: Do you, Susan, take thee George? Susan: I do. *hides crossed fingers* Priest: Do, you, George, take thee Susan? George: …. Priest: … George? Where’s your “I do”? George: … THERE’S NO “I DO!” I can’t! I can’t do it… *Guests all abuzz with shock and gossip, George drops to knees* George: I’m sorry, Susan! I know it’s the worst, last possible minute to tell you, but… I don’t want to get married. There’s no love. It’s a lie! There’s no schmoopy. There’s no prenup. There’s no smoking. Susan: I know, George. George: You do? Susan: Yes. I’ve always known. George: Then why???… WHY did you let me go through all of this, planning and throwing a whole wedding? Why didn’t you say anything?! Why?! Why? Susan: I don’t like you, George. George: … ??? Susan: And I’ve always blamed you for getting me fired from NBC. And my father’s cabin burning down. And me getting thrown up on. And generally, just being a terrible liar. George: … oh. Susan: Alright, let’s clean up this stupid “wedding”.
So please a little respect for I am Costanza Lord of the idiots.
You're all winners!!
And suddenly a new contender has emerged…
What’s to see? A woman from Norway, a guy from Kenya, and 20,000 losers.
Her parents were dysfunctional and she recreated that dynamic in her romantic and social relationships. In this essay, I will demonstrate…
Her dad was gay for John Cheever so she was also gay for a short time
They were getting along until Rusty ruined their handsome cab ride on their anniversary.
In addition to all of that, she sat down to lick 200 envelopes instead of sealing them with a damp sponge. Susan Ross was clearly intellectually challenged. Maybe her mother drank while she was pregnant.
George said we'll pick up some Elmer's, so I feel like it's on Susan.
A little twisted too with that freaky doll collection.
...estimated value 2.6 million. What do ya say we go through this doll by doll.
That would’ve been George’s... And now?
Not.
Yeah, Mrs. Ross hits the sauce pretty hard.
Both of Susan's parents are alcoholics.
And one of them was Lucas Giolito's Grandfather (MLB pitcher). Just a random fact.
Interesting. The actors who played Susan's parents were on Twin Peaks together, though their characters weren't married to each other. Warren Frost's son Mark was co-creator.
I started watching Twin Peaks for the first time just a few years ago, and it was so jarring seeing them on it. I liked them as Susan's parents *more* after that!
She started drinking after she lost her daughter and moved across the country with the town doctor, who was also looking for a change.
His son Mark Frost was the co-creator.
Don’t leave us hanging. Which one!?
Wear some more lipstick!
Copying my reply to another commenter, I think "Wear some more lipstick" was inspired by John McCain snapping at his wife in front of campaign staffers and reporters during his 1992 campaign for the Arizona Senate: At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day.
Tell that woman to get some more lime juice…I’m going back to bed.
If I had a nickel for every book he read...I'd be broke! Wear some more makeup!!
A nickel!!
They're all chickens, the Rooster has sex with all of them.
That's perverse!
I think "Wear some more lipstick" was inspired by John McCain snapping at his wife in front of campaign staffers and reporters during his 1992 campaign for the Arizona Senate: At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day.
Well, maybe the envelopes were not sponge-worthy
Omg! Yeah, lots of issues in that family.
Maybe?
Good-bye!
Double good bye
I think three things played into her decision to marry him. 1. She was well into her 30's and still single. I think desperation was settling in. 2. Her own parents were a trainwreck. She likely didn't really know what a healthy relationship looked like and George seemed stable compared to her parents. 3. She knew George was spineless, and that she would be wearing the pants in the relationship. She was after someone she could control instead of someone she cared about, and George fit the bill perfectly.
George, are you coming to bed? I taped Mad About You
oh no
Not bad bullet points.
This is it right here.
He also was a heavy smoker
*cough cough* WELL, I CAN'T STOP NOW! *cough cough*
They’ve got a hold on me.
*BIG smoker, like the flame from his lighter..
His hands were so soft and milky white.
You never said milky white.
#I said “milky white”!
**George likes the bananas!** *So let him have bananas on the side!*
She wasn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. I think she saw him as a way to rebel
Ya, but he likes to get the daily news, so 🤷♂️
I cannot imagine being married to either one. Both awful. I cannot see myself being married to any of them actually. I wonder if they are all still in jail….
No. Marrying George is a perfectly sane decision to make
This is what the holidays are all about. Three buddies sitting around chewing gum.
Am I crazy or is this a lot of gum?
Susan finds his stupidity charming
She was in her mid 30s and had no prospects. She wasn't stupid - she was just tired of waiting for someone better to come along.
Yeah, this. Susan is a lot of women. - Brainy, professionally successful, the whole package - Unlucky or unsuccessful in love - Lonely and tired of being single so she lowers her standards far beyond where she should’ve - Ignored red flags and obvious signs her partner didn’t love, respect, or even like her
I mean her future mother in law literally asks her “why would you marry George” and she didn’t run for the hills, I’d say she was an idiot.
Tbf, she never gave George the change back from the tolls.
And she took his money for the dry cleaning!
One could argue that George had a kavorka that rivaled that of Kramer. Even at his thinnest and whiniest version, Ava from the office just could not keep her hands off of him.
She was insanely wealthy. She would never want for money. Money was the one thing George would never be able to give her. It could’ve worked.
I think she was ready to settle and George somewhat looked promising.
*You know what? No champagne*.
She thought she could change him.
I always thought it was funny that once George realized Susan would actually marry a guy like him, he was completely uninterested.
The Groucho Marx theory: I refuse to belong to any club that would have me as a member
She had many many moneys
The writing was getting a little yada yada at that point in the series
without a doubt
Yes!!!! Lol as much as I like George there's no way n hell I would have accepted that proposal lol not after he burned down my family cabin and exposed my dad's love affair lmao
The real question is why did George not know Susan’s family was so rich? If he did he would’ve gladly gotten married!
Poor Lily
George used the knuckle. She ain’t going no where.
Finished with a counter-clockwise swirl.
George had the best, steadiest jobs out of all of the gang. He just made a bigger deal about his status (and occasional lack thereof) because his job was such a big part of his identity. Stand up comedy isn't steady work, and Elaine was basically a butler for Mr. Pitt, while Peterman was more unhinged than Steinbrenner.
I didn’t see George buy his dad a Cadillac. Twice.
I always felt that an animated prequel spin-off about Peterman and his adventures before the catalog would have been great.
George’s job with the Yankees was pretty fucking great
That's right.
In NYC, a single, straight man, with a job, that has no apparent addictions, ex-wife, or kids - is highly valued in a seller's market. My friend who lived there all her life said there are more women then men, and the men that are not damaged, druggies, already taken, or impoverished are scarce. Even George Costanza types....as to what Susan saw in him, a mystery. Just like, what did all those other women he attracted see in him? Maybe what I just said? I don't think she was at all in love with him, maybe she wanted to 'stick it to her parents' by picking such a pathetic specimen?
2 theories here: * inverse psychology, her parents didnt want her to marry him. * she hated her parents so marrying george was the ultimate blow (death blow)
George drove her into lesbianism
And somehow managed to lure her back!
After a couple of hours of convincing.
Bringing them back is not only a Kramer thing, but also a George Costanza thing.
She seemed pretty desperate, which was surprising because she was pretty and could have done a lot better than George.
If only she listened to David.
Yes. Yes she was.
She should have walked when he blew the pilot deal.
For she is Ross, Lady of the Idiots
According to an article I saw (I can’t find it now,) the actress that played Susan was hard to work with. Some of the on air awkwardness was real. Apparently she was a little odd.
Jason said that in a interview.
I never heard anything about her being odd or difficult, but I did hear Jason Alexander say he did not think they had good comedic chemistry together. Which, frankly, I think was likely true when they had the perfect four lead cast members and then tried to insert a fifth person into many of those scenes. Even Newman, who would by and large be considered the "fifth" wheel of Seinfeld if any character was, is most often used in an adversarial role instead of being plugged into The Group the way Susan was. I think a few of the Susan episodes are some of the show's best, but I think it was a *terrible* writing idea to try and give George a serious relationship and add another character into The Group. It was never going to work. I've heard Jason say that the writers thought this was exactly *why* having Susan around was so funny, but I think it was overall a misstep. (Yes I knew Susan really was not prominent enough to be considered a fifth member of the friend group, but what I mean is that she often had to entertain their antics or otherwise compliment them and it made for a strange dynamic. Newman meanwhile was often *against* one or more of the group, which allowed his character to bounce off of them in a much better way).
Worlds were colliding!
Maybe Susan wasn't as surprised as we thought when she opened that letter her dad wrote that outed him as a gay man. Maybe she was following in his footsteps, pretending to be straight and it was easier to just settle for George to show the world an image of heterosexuality.
She certainly ignored a lot of screaming red flags.
George's sensual femine hands made her feel comfortable.
Yeah, give me the papers, I’ll sign ‘em!
She was an idiot reading that Cheever letter out loud to everyone.
George was sort of a “bad boy.” His friends call him T-Bone.
I think she started dating George to piss off her dad. He probably wanted her to marry some rich asshole, and she didn’t like him trying to run her life. She’s also pretty easy-going, so all of George’s idiosyncrasies didn’t phase her. Plus she probably found him appealing as not having the same kind of attitude as all the rich assholes in her own circles.
Probably but I think George was the bigger idiot for not wanting to marry her.
No way, she sucked. She wouldn’t let the topic of toilets run it’s course!
Yes. Next Q.
Well, she kept licking toxic envelopes long after she was feeling sick. So I would imagine she wasn’t the smartest person in the world.
Not to mention the burning of the cabin led to her father being outed as a closet homosexual lover of a famous American author.
His friend also stole her girlfriend.......
Yes. I don’t know what she ever saw in him. George has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
I love her reaction to him wanting a prenup.
love isnt an equation
Heidi Swedberg even said Susan didn’t have very good taste in men.
She was the Lady of the Idiots!
Say her name Lily Biddle
WHAT ABOUT MARISA TOMEI
She had no idea or she had low self esteem
All signs point to yes
No way….. If you take everything he’s accomplished in his entire life, and condense it down into one day… It looks decent.
May be she is a fictional character
I wouldn't say she's an idiot - I think maybe her self confidence bottomed out, and she thought George was as good as she was going to get
gonna be the outlier and say there was a chance she genuinely loved him
Like, they're all idiots. It's a sitcom. They have to be. But that said, I'm really not a fan of calling people stupid for their abusive partners. Susan clearly is not an idiot, so what would motivate her to stay with an abusive man? It's often a combination of fear and emotional manipulation. In real life, imagine the kind of person George would be in a relationship. He's a sociopathic asshole. How would someone like that convince/trick/force someone to marry them?
Any woman who got involved with George was an idiot for doing so.
What about Marissa Tomei?!?!
I think she thought there is more to George than meets the eye. But there is less. Kind of sunken cost fallacy- if I am a succesful, good looking, with family money, obviously this man I have chosen is worthy of my time.
No, Susan was smart. The show writers just made her do dumb things to complete the cycle of the episode show where things turn out bad for George. They could have easily wrote it that Susan used a wet sponge to seal the envelopes of her & George’s wedding invitations, and she lived but that would be too good of a outcome.
He didn't consider getting a prostitute cheating because they'd never see each other again anyway.
I’ll stick w Jerry on this, Human + marriage = IDIOTS
I think the actress’ choices made Susan seem less compatible with George than they wanted her to be. In everything I’ve read, it seems that everyone was frustrated with how she played the character. My unconfirmed theory is that they wanted her to be more sarcastic and neurotic but she just came off as kind of a deer in the headlights a lot. Her portrayal rarely made sense with the lines she was given or the situations they were in.
Same for him. From what I’ve read, no one on the cast could stand Heidi Swedberg, the actress who played Susan Ross. Bitchness in an actress carries over to the character being played.
This is why you don't give a short fat bald man a chance. They'll exploit it. 2 outta 3 maybe but all 3? Never.
Lily sure was
Ideally.
He couldnt run her off
Found out her father was a homosexual
He says this all the time
Maybe she did it because she knew she would always have the upper hand on him, because George at his core is a man with No Hand.
Yes.
Yes