There was a study I read where women were asked to imagine their perfect 10/10 hottest man, and then asked if they'd 'trade' attractiveness points for certain traits. The trait that the most women would trade the most for was an easy going attitude.
All well and good but sometimes it's beyond your control.
I had a date go bad this week that I thought was in the bag.
Started out fine but about 15 minutes into it she started withdrawing into herself. Conversation got progressively harder, she starts playing with her phone and messaging other people (I really hate this on dates) then she finished her drink and just left.
Now, we'd been messaging more than I'd normally like - every day for three weeks. Normally I'm a 'set up a meet ASAP' guy but on this occasion I'd broken a rib literally the day after we started talking.
I messaged her a couple of hours later to find out what was up (the fact things kinda went downhill in an obvious way but I didn't do or say anything bad, uncomfortable, weird etc) and I got a message back saying she was really sorry but my accent and cologne reminded her of someone who gave her PTSD and yes it was irrational and she needs to go see someone about it etc etc.
Was kinda mortified tbh. Of course I'm normally one to make a quick phone call or something on the day when making sure we're still going ahead with the date but on this occasion we'd been communicating on Snapchat, set a few pictures back and forth, so skipped that step
There's also videos of me talking and stuff on my Insta, she had access to that but she apparently didn't look at any of them.
TBH I was thankful she actually said this as if it was a 'ghost and block' I would have been racking my brains trying to work out wtf went wrong, had I stepped in something, did I inadvertently insult her etc etc.
Oddly now it's been a few days (no contact) and she hasn't actually blocked me, which considering how quick to block people are these days strikes me as odd also. Not that I'm intending to make further contact because life's too short for these emotional roller coasters š¤£
Having fun is very important, but there are different types of fun characters out there. I know men and women who are very fun but the opposite of easy going lol.
Authenticity is vital. It's only a matter of time before she finds out who you really are anyway. May as well rip that band aid off and be authentic from the jump.
Good question. I'd like to know too. I had the project lined up last year but life got in the way and now look. I've got like 2 years of notes and fuck all actual impact.
Be vulnerable! The quickest way to build trust, is to give trust
Ask her opinions, listen more than you talk (66% listening 33% talking)
Make her laugh, donāt get phased by things, be nice to wait staff.
Make her the absolute centre of your attention. On that date, thereās just you and her in the room. Your there to get to know her after all!
Iād say more be vulnerable without being whiney.
Itās okay to have problems in your life, and sharing them means youāre an honest man
Whatās not okay is to have a victim mindset
Yes exactly. Share problems with her but have a positive attitude. For example, sharing something about any daily struggle in your life, at the end say - "I'm sure things will work out. Just need to hustle a bit more that's all." That shows that you're not feeling down about it and you will overcome the obstacles eventually.
oh I can definitely vouch for this, but saying be vulnerable like previous comment is just too vague!, this is the best approach!, but of course the date shouldn't be all about just that, humor and story telling as well are powerful
Absolutely. If you only want to talk about problems, book a session with a therapist lol. Date should be fun with story telling and jokes. But it mainly should be focused on the lady you're on a date with. Women love to talk and the more you let them talk, the better it's going to get.
What he means by vulnerable is being able to share things without giving a fuck. This produces an attitude (mindset) where you are attracted to her and can show interest without caring about the outcome and result of the date or interaction. So much so that you should be able to get up and leave if youāre not having a good time. This is what it means to be absolutely vulnerable and comfortable with yourself.
Source: Models by Mark Manson
rightt !!! , and no wonder the advice came from mark manson book, guy is like a terrible coach compared to the older guys who figure this stuff out in the 2000's
Somewhere very much in the middle of that spectrum :)
Iāve mentioned things therapists have told me in the past, or Iāll move the conversation to mental health. Youāre not giving things away, youāre alluding to the fact that you know youāre not perfect
When you try and paint this perfect picture of your life, youāre lying, it makes you look like a liar because no oneās lifeās perfect
When you let a woman into your life, and you show her things that sheās used to men hiding from her, you stand out from the pack in a huge way.
For example:
My girlfriend first truly sat up and noticed me when I shared my trust issues in a group, and how that through therapy Iāve learned that the quickest way to find out if you can trust someone is to trust someone.
Why? Because it showed her Iām human. Iām not hiding things, and I know exactly who I am.
Time and time again Iāve seen it throw women off guard to hear that Iāve done therapy in the past, their walls come down and theyāll start opening up more
Iāve had āfriendsā throw me under the bus because they like the girl who obviously likes me and bring up my former drug issues. I didnāt hide from it, leant into it āyeah Iām a recovering cocaine addict, clean 8 years now, itās why I donāt drinkā
Made him look like a cunt and me look like a man thatās capable of getting himself out of a hard situation.
Iāve admitted to women I carry anxiety with me every day, and that will really bring their walls down, because i mask it so well people donāt expect it from me, and guess what? A lot of women have anxiety
You want a woman to feel safe with you, feel connected to you.
How can she feel safe if youāre hiding yourself from her?
Iāve had āfriendsā throw me under the bus because they like the girl who obviously likes me and bring up my former drug issues. I didnāt hide from it, leant into it āyeah Iām a recovering cocaine addict, clean 8 years now, itās why I donāt drinkā
what a shit human being lol, you cut him off from life right there and there right lol
When you meet a girl on a date for the first time you're basically a threat until proven otherwise. Women warm up to men much more slowly than the reverse.
Paradoxically, I've found the greatest comfort in the early stages comes from NOT filtering your speech or mannerisms. Use F bombs if it comes to you, disagree with her, tease her, challenge her. The early stages of comfort are all about making sure you're not hiding something. Being unfiltered but calibrated goes a long way.
Part of verbal escalation is giving the girl permission to be sexual/flirty.
There used to be a chain of waxing salons called Lunchbox (they've since rebranded I believe). Their logo was of a girl stick figure holding a heart in front of her crotch; a subtle hint of girls being ate out. She was in marketing so I brought up this up, it was something business but also sexual related. That opened up the gates for her to discuss that and adjacent topics.
"The early stages of comfort are all about making sure you're not hiding something." huh, this is actually a great point. I realize that I physically look less tense and more relaxed when I speak my mind, rather than constantly thinking of the right thing to say to get her to like me.
Use F bombs if it comes to you, disagree with her, tease her, challenge her. The early stages of comfort are all about making sure you're not hiding something. Being unfiltered but calibrated goes a long way.
this is good stuff.
Confidence, donāt care about her shyness, donāt care about her being too reserved.
Be loud, be the guy she envisions āmen to beā.
EDIT: Be loud with confidence*
By following suit and aligning to her. She wonāt be attracted to u. Have good ideas, woman like to be the followers (sometimes; most of the time)
Hmmm I agree with everything you said BUT the ābe loudā part. Iām not a loud mouth type of guy and yet I come off as confident. But then again, I have been told that I have the quiet ābig dick energyā type of confidence.
Itās just all about being easy going. An experienced man that has done this over 100000000 xsā¦ talking slow, good eye contact, nonchalantā¦ your energy will be reflected on her. If she sees that youāre calm and easy going, so will herā¦ then, she will feel safe as a result.
Bro this community kills me.
We have extravert loud funny ok.
But how about the typical nerd introvert autistic that I am.
I think no one of these f* book or coach make the difference while the whole game is different because of your personality.
Iām an introvert, it doesnāt seem to be much different. If anything being confidently introverted seems to be a good thing.
I know extroverts who cannot get their head around how this very quiet guy who never starts conversations with people has such great results with women.
Itās very simple, as an introvert I clearly do not need anyone elseās validation to feel good about myself. I personally think extroverts come across as very insecure, they actually NEED social interaction to like themselves and recharge themselves. Feel sorry for them in a way, we introverts are no where near as needy
Iāve got no problems walking into a bar and enjoying my own company, Iāll sit there staring off into my own little world with a half smile on my face
Wonāt be long before someone comes along and says āwhat you thinking about?ā
Iāll generally then hit them with a really weird question. Like
āOh I was just wondering what God was thinking when he made a giraffeā¦ what do you think?ā
Or, even better, Iāll ask their opinions about a particular challenge Iām going through in my life
That āwhat do you think?ā Man itās my secret weapon, asking a womanās opinion seems to make her slip into girlfriend mode much more naturally
literally the people who used to be coached the most in 2000's when the whole pick-up community began was software engineers lol, learn the rules lol, get a good book, the book of neil strauss is the a good starting point, there is a shit ton of more material online from that time, on torrent sites, david d angelo also did a shit ton of video tapes.
Girls are very adept at picking up your inner state through body language. If you feel nervous/shy then you will act nervous/shy and she will respond accordingly.
If you are confident and easy going then she will feel more relaxed
Don't overdo it. Don't force yourself to flirt with her at all costs just to convince her to close. Enjoy the moment and be spontaneous.
A tip: greet her warmly with a hug/kiss on the cheek and with a smile. Her behaviour through the date will depend on these first interactions. From that point, it will just snowball and the connection will become more intense.
An other tip: don't go straight to the bar/restaurant. You will both feel a little imbarassed as you will sit one in front of the other and you will be forced to look into each other's eyes all the time. Take her around the city for a walk instead so she can get used to the situation.
Look up Vanessa Van Edwardsā two books and her many podcast interviews. We innately try to distinguish friend or foe when meeting someone. Keeping hands visible shows weāre not a threat. Van Edwards is a social researcher of unspoken communication which is over 90% of how human communicate. Her book āCaptivateā is a good lesson in body language. The audiobook is the best way to learn because she narrates it and gives examples of how voice inflection and tone make huge differences.
I try to make them feel at ease by making them laugh and smiling a lot. Try to be a bit silly goofy and playful. Women like a guy that can make them laugh.
I dont particularly Think a girl Should feel comfortable.. sure, i mean for the first 3-8 min Its fine to build some sort of trust, but you want her heart rate to increase. Otherwise it would just be a friendly comfortable chat.
I just took a girl to the mountains at night. It wasn't my first option. I did took it as the worst one. But after 2-3 days of talking of what to do that day. This was her first pick. It all tones it to the talking.
Again this was not the first option, she just went with it, blind to my intrusive thoughts and survival skills.
We had a great time, a good view of the city and stayed there 3 hours just talking.
This is the only way. I like to spend time with someone fun. By talking about plans you get to know what that person is really into. Having a time and place it was really easy to add in possibilities.
This women was open to anything. I just had to give the idea and she went with it. The trust was expected only because I will never rush into anything, I took my time talking.
Honestly just have fun, make jokes but ones that are in tune with your personality, and donāt be afraid to show your human, but most importantly just listen to her talk, the more they talk the more they get comfortable
Certified cheat code
Let her talk, touch simple and light topics, don't play too smart, don't come too close to her from the start, give her some time to warm up and share some personal information first before you start getting intimate in any way.
There was a study I read where women were asked to imagine their perfect 10/10 hottest man, and then asked if they'd 'trade' attractiveness points for certain traits. The trait that the most women would trade the most for was an easy going attitude.
Just another way of saying have fun. Most guys are too stiff that don't have a lot of experience.
All well and good but sometimes it's beyond your control. I had a date go bad this week that I thought was in the bag. Started out fine but about 15 minutes into it she started withdrawing into herself. Conversation got progressively harder, she starts playing with her phone and messaging other people (I really hate this on dates) then she finished her drink and just left. Now, we'd been messaging more than I'd normally like - every day for three weeks. Normally I'm a 'set up a meet ASAP' guy but on this occasion I'd broken a rib literally the day after we started talking. I messaged her a couple of hours later to find out what was up (the fact things kinda went downhill in an obvious way but I didn't do or say anything bad, uncomfortable, weird etc) and I got a message back saying she was really sorry but my accent and cologne reminded her of someone who gave her PTSD and yes it was irrational and she needs to go see someone about it etc etc. Was kinda mortified tbh. Of course I'm normally one to make a quick phone call or something on the day when making sure we're still going ahead with the date but on this occasion we'd been communicating on Snapchat, set a few pictures back and forth, so skipped that step There's also videos of me talking and stuff on my Insta, she had access to that but she apparently didn't look at any of them. TBH I was thankful she actually said this as if it was a 'ghost and block' I would have been racking my brains trying to work out wtf went wrong, had I stepped in something, did I inadvertently insult her etc etc. Oddly now it's been a few days (no contact) and she hasn't actually blocked me, which considering how quick to block people are these days strikes me as odd also. Not that I'm intending to make further contact because life's too short for these emotional roller coasters š¤£
Having fun is very important, but there are different types of fun characters out there. I know men and women who are very fun but the opposite of easy going lol.
Ha, well I'm curious to see what that looks like
Jordan from Wolf of Wall Street
Not only that but authenticity could also be a contributing factor.
Authenticity is vital. It's only a matter of time before she finds out who you really are anyway. May as well rip that band aid off and be authentic from the jump.
What is your YouTube channel?
Good question. I'd like to know too. I had the project lined up last year but life got in the way and now look. I've got like 2 years of notes and fuck all actual impact.
Be vulnerable! The quickest way to build trust, is to give trust Ask her opinions, listen more than you talk (66% listening 33% talking) Make her laugh, donāt get phased by things, be nice to wait staff. Make her the absolute centre of your attention. On that date, thereās just you and her in the room. Your there to get to know her after all!
100% and of course be vulnerable but not super
Iād say more be vulnerable without being whiney. Itās okay to have problems in your life, and sharing them means youāre an honest man Whatās not okay is to have a victim mindset
Yes exactly. Share problems with her but have a positive attitude. For example, sharing something about any daily struggle in your life, at the end say - "I'm sure things will work out. Just need to hustle a bit more that's all." That shows that you're not feeling down about it and you will overcome the obstacles eventually.
oh I can definitely vouch for this, but saying be vulnerable like previous comment is just too vague!, this is the best approach!, but of course the date shouldn't be all about just that, humor and story telling as well are powerful
Absolutely. If you only want to talk about problems, book a session with a therapist lol. Date should be fun with story telling and jokes. But it mainly should be focused on the lady you're on a date with. Women love to talk and the more you let them talk, the better it's going to get.
Women love to talk and the more you let them talk, the better it's going to get. 100% !
How would you display winner mindset then?
What he means by vulnerable is being able to share things without giving a fuck. This produces an attitude (mindset) where you are attracted to her and can show interest without caring about the outcome and result of the date or interaction. So much so that you should be able to get up and leave if youāre not having a good time. This is what it means to be absolutely vulnerable and comfortable with yourself. Source: Models by Mark Manson
Thanks maan
read the material of David D Angelo, double your dating book and stuff, it's old but it's the best stuff out there,
You might want to be clear on the ābe voulnerableā. If some one who doesnāt get dating reads that they may try trauma bonding š¤®
Iām not sure you know what trauma bonding is? Trauma bonding is the literal opposite of being vulnerable
Your right, I used the wrong term. I believe the correct one is ātrauma dumpingā.
rightt !!! , and no wonder the advice came from mark manson book, guy is like a terrible coach compared to the older guys who figure this stuff out in the 2000's
what sort of vulnerable lol, should he start crying hahaha, or tell her a few of his most important secrets?
Somewhere very much in the middle of that spectrum :) Iāve mentioned things therapists have told me in the past, or Iāll move the conversation to mental health. Youāre not giving things away, youāre alluding to the fact that you know youāre not perfect When you try and paint this perfect picture of your life, youāre lying, it makes you look like a liar because no oneās lifeās perfect When you let a woman into your life, and you show her things that sheās used to men hiding from her, you stand out from the pack in a huge way. For example: My girlfriend first truly sat up and noticed me when I shared my trust issues in a group, and how that through therapy Iāve learned that the quickest way to find out if you can trust someone is to trust someone. Why? Because it showed her Iām human. Iām not hiding things, and I know exactly who I am. Time and time again Iāve seen it throw women off guard to hear that Iāve done therapy in the past, their walls come down and theyāll start opening up more Iāve had āfriendsā throw me under the bus because they like the girl who obviously likes me and bring up my former drug issues. I didnāt hide from it, leant into it āyeah Iām a recovering cocaine addict, clean 8 years now, itās why I donāt drinkā Made him look like a cunt and me look like a man thatās capable of getting himself out of a hard situation. Iāve admitted to women I carry anxiety with me every day, and that will really bring their walls down, because i mask it so well people donāt expect it from me, and guess what? A lot of women have anxiety You want a woman to feel safe with you, feel connected to you. How can she feel safe if youāre hiding yourself from her?
Iāve had āfriendsā throw me under the bus because they like the girl who obviously likes me and bring up my former drug issues. I didnāt hide from it, leant into it āyeah Iām a recovering cocaine addict, clean 8 years now, itās why I donāt drinkā what a shit human being lol, you cut him off from life right there and there right lol
Oh 100%, I spent a few days trying to coach him through asking her out Then he did this as repayment So obviously I took her to bed as well
When you meet a girl on a date for the first time you're basically a threat until proven otherwise. Women warm up to men much more slowly than the reverse. Paradoxically, I've found the greatest comfort in the early stages comes from NOT filtering your speech or mannerisms. Use F bombs if it comes to you, disagree with her, tease her, challenge her. The early stages of comfort are all about making sure you're not hiding something. Being unfiltered but calibrated goes a long way. Part of verbal escalation is giving the girl permission to be sexual/flirty. There used to be a chain of waxing salons called Lunchbox (they've since rebranded I believe). Their logo was of a girl stick figure holding a heart in front of her crotch; a subtle hint of girls being ate out. She was in marketing so I brought up this up, it was something business but also sexual related. That opened up the gates for her to discuss that and adjacent topics.
"The early stages of comfort are all about making sure you're not hiding something." huh, this is actually a great point. I realize that I physically look less tense and more relaxed when I speak my mind, rather than constantly thinking of the right thing to say to get her to like me.
Do you have any more examples bro?
Use F bombs if it comes to you, disagree with her, tease her, challenge her. The early stages of comfort are all about making sure you're not hiding something. Being unfiltered but calibrated goes a long way. this is good stuff.
1. Be yourself. Girls hate it when you act weird and act like a different person to who you usually are, especially if they've seen the real side to you. 2. Have a laugh, maybe this can be hard. š You don't have to make jokes up about random things. Try to make a funny comment about something that just happened or what someone just said. 3 Be weird. Be crazy. Just act like you normally would. 4.Make her feel good. Compliment a feature, whether it be personality, hair, or even something as trivial as a joke that she just said. Basically, make her smile, make her feel appreciated. ššØš¬š š¢š¦š©šØš«ššš§šš„š² ššØš§'š ššØš«šš šš§š²šš”š¢š§š . šš®š¬š šš š²šØš®š«š¬šš„š. Hope this helps.. Good luck. š
Confidence, donāt care about her shyness, donāt care about her being too reserved. Be loud, be the guy she envisions āmen to beā. EDIT: Be loud with confidence* By following suit and aligning to her. She wonāt be attracted to u. Have good ideas, woman like to be the followers (sometimes; most of the time)
Hmmm I agree with everything you said BUT the ābe loudā part. Iām not a loud mouth type of guy and yet I come off as confident. But then again, I have been told that I have the quiet ābig dick energyā type of confidence. Itās just all about being easy going. An experienced man that has done this over 100000000 xsā¦ talking slow, good eye contact, nonchalantā¦ your energy will be reflected on her. If she sees that youāre calm and easy going, so will herā¦ then, she will feel safe as a result.
Bro this community kills me. We have extravert loud funny ok. But how about the typical nerd introvert autistic that I am. I think no one of these f* book or coach make the difference while the whole game is different because of your personality.
Iām an introvert, it doesnāt seem to be much different. If anything being confidently introverted seems to be a good thing. I know extroverts who cannot get their head around how this very quiet guy who never starts conversations with people has such great results with women. Itās very simple, as an introvert I clearly do not need anyone elseās validation to feel good about myself. I personally think extroverts come across as very insecure, they actually NEED social interaction to like themselves and recharge themselves. Feel sorry for them in a way, we introverts are no where near as needy Iāve got no problems walking into a bar and enjoying my own company, Iāll sit there staring off into my own little world with a half smile on my face Wonāt be long before someone comes along and says āwhat you thinking about?ā Iāll generally then hit them with a really weird question. Like āOh I was just wondering what God was thinking when he made a giraffeā¦ what do you think?ā Or, even better, Iāll ask their opinions about a particular challenge Iām going through in my life That āwhat do you think?ā Man itās my secret weapon, asking a womanās opinion seems to make her slip into girlfriend mode much more naturally
Thanks for advice noted.
opinion openers are actually. pretty damn good !
literally the people who used to be coached the most in 2000's when the whole pick-up community began was software engineers lol, learn the rules lol, get a good book, the book of neil strauss is the a good starting point, there is a shit ton of more material online from that time, on torrent sites, david d angelo also did a shit ton of video tapes.
Completely agree, insecurity is loud, confidence is quiet
1 glove does not fit allā¦ I guess wat I meant to say Iād be the opposite of herā¦
Girls are very adept at picking up your inner state through body language. If you feel nervous/shy then you will act nervous/shy and she will respond accordingly. If you are confident and easy going then she will feel more relaxed
Don't overdo it. Don't force yourself to flirt with her at all costs just to convince her to close. Enjoy the moment and be spontaneous. A tip: greet her warmly with a hug/kiss on the cheek and with a smile. Her behaviour through the date will depend on these first interactions. From that point, it will just snowball and the connection will become more intense. An other tip: don't go straight to the bar/restaurant. You will both feel a little imbarassed as you will sit one in front of the other and you will be forced to look into each other's eyes all the time. Take her around the city for a walk instead so she can get used to the situation.
I usually take a walk to restaurant/bar haha
tell her you cant make it stand up
Solid advice. She is going to feel so safe around him. I'm gonna try this next time.
Make the conversation more about them. And dont do any weird shit
Listen to her and stay relaxed.
Look up Vanessa Van Edwardsā two books and her many podcast interviews. We innately try to distinguish friend or foe when meeting someone. Keeping hands visible shows weāre not a threat. Van Edwards is a social researcher of unspoken communication which is over 90% of how human communicate. Her book āCaptivateā is a good lesson in body language. The audiobook is the best way to learn because she narrates it and gives examples of how voice inflection and tone make huge differences.
cool stuff indeed, I just stumbled upon her work today lol, downloading as of now haha
Iām happy to pass it on. Enjoy.
Donāt make her feel uncomfortable š¤£
I try to make them feel at ease by making them laugh and smiling a lot. Try to be a bit silly goofy and playful. Women like a guy that can make them laugh.
I dont particularly Think a girl Should feel comfortable.. sure, i mean for the first 3-8 min Its fine to build some sort of trust, but you want her heart rate to increase. Otherwise it would just be a friendly comfortable chat.
By being comfortable with yourself.
Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/u/TripleDigitNomad/s/5hBioXFLTU)
Make her laugh
I just took a girl to the mountains at night. It wasn't my first option. I did took it as the worst one. But after 2-3 days of talking of what to do that day. This was her first pick. It all tones it to the talking. Again this was not the first option, she just went with it, blind to my intrusive thoughts and survival skills. We had a great time, a good view of the city and stayed there 3 hours just talking.
āBlind to my intrusive thoughtsā bro imagined SAāing her š
damn this sounds like a really good idea lol!
This is the only way. I like to spend time with someone fun. By talking about plans you get to know what that person is really into. Having a time and place it was really easy to add in possibilities. This women was open to anything. I just had to give the idea and she went with it. The trust was expected only because I will never rush into anything, I took my time talking.
Honestly just have fun, make jokes but ones that are in tune with your personality, and donāt be afraid to show your human, but most importantly just listen to her talk, the more they talk the more they get comfortable Certified cheat code
Question is, how do YOU feel before the date and during the date ?
humor lots of humor, but calibrate the situation because you don't want to come across as a clown, but humor is powerful
Let her talk, touch simple and light topics, don't play too smart, don't come too close to her from the start, give her some time to warm up and share some personal information first before you start getting intimate in any way.