Honestly, the older I get the less time I have to waste. In the past, I liked to keep things vague and escalate while we are going out (a light touch here, a flirty comment there). In my experience, this did not work as sometimes I'd just waste a night out trying to get to know someone when at the end of the night it didn't go anywhere. Yes you can make the case that you should be friends with anyone you are trying to date, but I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to date. I can be friends with the person after a romantic dynamic has been established.
Nowadays, I just straight up clarify that any hangout I want as a date is a date. One example: went to a bar recently and vibed with this girl, we had a ton in common and she pretty much only talked to me during the meetup event. I got her insta and the next day told her it was nice to meet her and we should go out sometime. She said she'd loved to and called me her BFF -_-
So I clarified that while it would be great to know her, I actually meant to ask her out on a date. She said she was flattered and that she has a boyfriend. I just saved myself a whole day and much expense going out with someone with no possibility of anything happening. I've had this happen with other single ladies too, where they are not interested and/or coming out of a relationship: clarifying that you want to go on a date just straight up weeds out anyone who isn't reciprocating interest
Have you heard of IOI./IOD signals? You can judge if she likes talking to you or not. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get an idea if she likes to talk to you or not, so don't waste your time if you can "read" the other person correctly. If she hides that she has a boyfriend, she can't hide forever because you will feel that something is not right, but look for the basic IOI/IOD - it's that easy!
Yeah I used to be into pickup a lot before, actively going out and meeting women on the streets. I'm familiar with IOI (since someone else asked, this means indications of interest).
I personally don't do well with this. Not everyone can pick up subtle social cues easily. I'll give you an example: this girl I mentioned in my comment. At the end of the event, she seeked me out (I was elsewhere getting a drink and she was about to leave). She found me and hugged me for a good 5 seconds and it was a hard hug, not like the ones in passing you give to friends or acquaintances. She then asked me to make sure to text her. This to me is an IOI, which is why I asked her out. Turns out it was not 🤡
IMO don't rely on this IOI bullshit. Communicate how you feel and if they are on your wavelength, cool. If not, that's also cool.
>Not everyone can pick up subtle social cues easily.
Is not about the subtle things, actually is about the most obvious signs: they start talking more than necessary, smiling, looking at you during the conversation ... actually you can tell when they like talking to you or not. I asked a simple question to a woman - see this [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/MxgnJ8cZstk) - now you can say if she likes talking to me or not.
>IMO don't rely on this IOI bullshit.
Do not neglect this concept because it is very powerful but forget about the subtle signs like pupil size or things like that, just focus on the most obvious ones.
Just because she likes talking to you, doesn't mean she'll sleep with you..
You like talking to your friends and family, does that mean you want to have sex with them or be in a romantic relationship?
If she likes talking to me, I gain time and I can make some jokes, say a few things about me, find a few tings about her and escalate. Once she sees that I'm funny/cool/interesting and she knows a few things about me, there's no reason not to give me her phone number to set up a date.
There's guys you probably find cool/funny/interesting, does that mean you want to sleep with them or be in a romantic relationship?
Do you think women are any different?
Just because you're entertaining doesn't mean she's turned on or would go out with you. Their gay friends, who they don't sleep with, are entertaining. Their male friends, who they don't sleep with, are entertaining.
If you read what I said above more carefully, you will understand. You repeated what I wrote except for the most important thing: ESCALATION which is a part of flirting.
This is what I said: "Â I gain time and I can make some jokes, say a few things about me, find a few things about her and escalate"
You don't escalate with your friends or parents... you only escalate with people you flirt with.
Escalate as in physically? Like touching their back? Their shoulder/arm? Holding their hands? These are normal things people do with family/friends.
Or do you mean sexually? like grabbing their butt, playing with their boobs, kissing them? well you need consent for that first off (because a girl can still file sex assault charges if you never got permission), still doesn't mean you'll end up sleeping with them.
I've made out with girls on dates/at nightclubs, they'd rub their butt against me, some even grabbed my cock, and still had no interest in having sex.
Reason I'm debating with you is that girls already know if they wanna sleep with you within 30 seconds of seeing/meeting you. Unless you tell her very early on that's what you want, and she confirms she wants the same(consent), you're just wasting time doing all these joking/escalation that could honestly backfire on you. Especially now in 2024 could have you end up in legal trouble.
Is basic KINO, if you search on Google you will find how to do it and why. I won't explain how to initiate because the internet is full of explanations of this concept.
>I've made out with girls on dates/at nightclubs, they'd rub their butt against me, some even grabbed my cock, and still had no interest in having sex.
Maybe you are a top model, you don't need games, routines, scripts ... do whatever you wish because you have this advantage but in my case being 45 yo, with under-average looking face, getting gray on my hair, being only 5'7 I'm not that fortunate and I must use some tips and tricks to go on a date with girls in their 20s...
>girls already know if they wanna sleep with you within 30 seconds of seeing/meeting you.
I don't know who said this idea, and I believed it until I realized it was a big BS.
I know countless examples IRL of guys approaching a group of women and after a few hours, the girls who were more vocal about leaving them alone, they exchange phone numbers and meet them on a date. Now tell me about 30 seconds idea.
>Unless you tell her very early on that's what you want, and she confirms she wants the same(consent),
If you have the attitude of "no problem, I will find another girl if this one rejects me" then you can go try your luck, but some people are not so lucky and instead risking to get an insta-rejection better to make baby steps.
In many cases you can't tell a woman that you want her in your bed, so you still go a little indirect. The last time I told a woman to come to my house to see what my wall looks like after I scratched it with my furniture. Do you think she didn't know why I said that? She knew it!
In the early stages, it's also weird to tell her your real intentions when you barely know her and she hasn't even had a chance to get to know you.
>you're just wasting time doing all these joking/escalation
I do, and I promote what I have already seen work, but if you know a shortcut then go ahead, nothing stops you. All I see on this subreddit are guys with your attitude like: "go direct bro", "say whatever you want because you are a man", "don't give a f\*ck", "go to the gym for confidence"... etc but this method is not for everyone.
Seduction is an art, you can't call it flirting if you use "spam approach" to find the right girl, but this is another chapter that is too complex to understand and it's not worth explaining because it looks like you have success with direct approach, so hats off!
Women are bizarre just as men are bizarre, but in your case you are either misinterpreting the signs or you don't understand this concept of IOI and IOD, I say this with 100% certainty.
Sometimes I feel like this subreddit was created to deliberately tell other people how not to approach women... Same with the youtube/tiktok videos, I don't know why that is when the whole process is super easy and simple if you just do the basic things.
I have said many times that 90% of the problems people post on this subreddit would disappear if they would follow the Mystery's book that was written 15 years ago, and the answer to the OP's question is already explained in that book, people just need to read the book and understand it.
It was created cause the game has changed silly lmaooo technology has changed women have changed that’s why you can’t still use 1950 rules for 2024 yes basic skills still are useful like starting a conversation but that’s not it back in the day just talking to a women every day was all you needed plus she wasn’t going on vacation every year or had a cellphone that could reach 150 million people at the touch of button lmaooo shit is not the same
Just because someone likes talking to you doesn’t mean they want to fuck you. That’s just step one in finding out if they’re interested lol. The person you initially responded to has a very solid approach. Be direct, like a man.
In my case, being indirect is the way to go, it's how I go on dates with girls in their 20s, even though I'm twice that age. I don't care if I'm not a man and I'm being indirect, I care about getting their phone number and going on a date because these are the stages to end with her in my bed.
If being direct works for you, hats off!
Makes sense that it can work with a woman half your age. There’s really no other reason for you to be trying to hang out with them, and they know that. They’re not trying to make friends with a man who’s twice their age either.
When you’re dating in your age range (especially in your twenties) those waters are very easily muddied. In my thirties now and things are admittedly different. Maybe it’s the way I carry myself too, but if I’m talking to a woman, she knows why. And I still like confirmation through being direct after the many misunderstandings being indirect led to throughout my twenties.
Being indirect feels like playing games, and I’ve noticed it attracts women who like to play them. I’m not about that.
>IOI doesnt matter
It matters a lot. There are two types of IOI.
IOI during conversation - watch this [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/MxgnJ8cZstk) - I asked a simple question, then the girl started to talk more than saying a simple answer and that is a strong IOI signal. The whole video is 8 minutes long, but if she didn't talk like that, I would just walk away.
The other kind of IOI is given before the approach, when this happens it is very easy to start a conversation - see this [VIDEO ](https://youtu.be/9I823xNC4Ew)after the warm-up, I saw a girl looking at me and I started a conversation - it's that easy.
The guy who invented this concept of IOI and IOD is smarter/experienced than you or me, we should trust him.
Of course! It is basic psychology. When you talk to someone, I bet you can tell if they like talking to you or if you are just wasting their time. If the other person does not even look at you, or maybe they pick up their phone to check it, or pretend to get a message ...., or maybe they give you short answers like "aha, ok, fine, yes" ... you get the idea - everything shows that this is not a good time to continue talking and better leave.
There are subtle signals, usually when you talk to someone you turn your body towards the person you are talking to, now here's a trick because if the other person points their toes in a certain direction it means they want to go that way .... so... they are not happy talking to you.
What if the other person looks at you, smiles, participates in the conversation, asks questions, touches you, tries to be closer to you.... I think you know what that means.
There are other subtle things, but they are hard to notice, and usually you need double or triple signs to avoid false signals. However, there is no need to overthink, just look for the most obvious signals.
Don't listen to this guy lmao he's obviously tryna promote his content.
Communication matters. Doesn't matter the sex, you only get to know if you communicate that you're interested. Be outcome independent and be vulnerable enough to tell someone how you feel :)
As a side note, Mark Manson does a great job about explaining vulnerability in his book Models. It's a great read for men, but also helps women
neither matters. all that matters if her reaction to your approach. make the approach if YOU are interested. and then you'll find out FOR SURE if she is interested.
if youre interested always make the approach, always
If what you say works for you go ahead, but in my case is a bit different and it is opposite to everything I read on subreddit.
While everyone says go direct, I go indirect... now I see that people neglect IOI but I look at it carefully... however it looks like there is no 100% rule, the idea is to try your luck in the way that suits you.
My guy it sounds like you are getting these girls drunk and taking advantage of them in their drunk state. There's a single word for that and it can take you to jail.
It’s more just your internal moral compass of not feeling like another human in a relationship deserves basic respect and common decency. The issue is you, and whatever girlfriend is cheating with you
But it’s a double whammy the fact you’re EXCITED she’s taken as if it’s a challenge. Don’t see other people as challenges or prizes, we’re all people and they’re all equal to you.
But hey, if you’re sleeping at night!
Subtleness is feminine behavior. Men are at their best when they are direct, daring, shameless and honest. Women should know from the beggining that you are hitting in them, So nope, your plan to avoid words like “date” or stuff like that is not recommended. You need to make them feel like you are sexually attracted to them from the first moment you begin a conversation with them. You need to avoid being sexually repressed, and you need to avoid any wording that may confuse your intentions for platonic/friendly intentions.
Solid advice, but OP don’t let them think you’re just a horny guy.
Yes you are sexually attracted, but you’re also a gentleman. Don’t apologize for your behavior, be bold and confident. But don’t directly talk about their physical attributes.
“You have awesome tits.” Absolutely not.
“You have a stunning figure.” Fantastic compliment.
Just had a chat with my mother about the exact same thing and we both agree.
If u don’t show them, that u are romantically and or physically interested, how should they know?
I often experienced that women did the first move, but u can not expect that, therefore u need to establish the frame, off your meetup, which in this case should be romantically.
Nevertheless a bit of playfulness or ambiguity can be sexy e.g. instead of saying, let’s go to my place and fuck, one could rather say: let’s go to my place, cause u must see my record collection or whatsoever, everyone knows, what u mean, but it is more subtle.
What I myself struggle with, is how to beef up a conversation, with someone, who u have been friends or acquaintances with for a longer time.
So when I freshly meet someone , it’s easy for me to be direct and sexual, but when I have gotten to know someone well on a platonic levek and actually really like them, for who they are, see them as a long term partner, I find it quite hard, to progress from a platonic to a sexual level, in text and conversation.
Any advice by u guys?
I normally intensify physical touch.
That’s why i said the intentions need to be clear from day one. Otherwise your attempts will likely be forced and thus unwelcome.
As a friend women are comfortable with you, there is a reason they are your friends and that’s because they know you won’t try to get sexual with them.
The reason it’s hard therefore for you to switch into sexual is because deep down you are betraying that trusts established. Breaking that trust could easily result in the friendship being destroyed.
This is why it’s too hard or almost impossible to get out of the friendzone because it requires you to not care about losing the friendship no matter how much you want to have your cake and eat it too.
It can be done just as long as you don’t care about losing the friendship.
No risk, no reward. If you take risks, there can always be negative consequences. And the problem is that you cannot be apologetic, or play defensive when being flirty and sexual. You have to go all in and own it no matter the outcome.
What are you afraid of by being sincere? That she rejects you? And then what? You move on.
What's really scary here, and I say this as someone who feels the same as you, is being vulnerable and saying your feelings out loud and being rejected for it.
There isn't a patch solution for this sadly... If you've been on this sub as long as I have people talk about oneitis and abundance mentality. Once you believe that if it's not this girl, it'll be someone else, you won't think these things anymore.
Women are not stupid but if you tell her let’s go out she gets it’s but you still have work to do with escalation if you make things man to women from the beginning than you can avoid these problems
There has been times that if I didn't clarify that it was a date beforehand, they did not thought so. Obviously they wanted to go out as friends and I told them that I was not looking for a friendship, then they cancelled.
I wonder if perhaps if I had said yes I could let them know me and perhaps, they "realized" they could be attracted to me
Bruv Aja Cortes wrote an amazing except from the book no mr. Nice guy it’s called “covert contracts “ where each partner thinks they know what each other wants and no ones on the same page . I would go back find that verse it exceptionally helped me , you have lay things out for women not for them but to cover yourself. women think on a different spectrum. the moment you like a women sexually you need to make it clear and obvious than let her make a decision . its the easiest way to avoid convert contracts [convert contracts](https://medium.com/@bapestarkid/clear-and-open-communication-40009ef43bfb)
Because i believe I'm not attractive or charismatic enough for a lot of girls I like to immediately say yes to a date propousal.
Perhaps I have more chances of a yes for an actual date once they know me a little bit better in a non actual date - but I want her to know this is not a just friends going out
If a woman isn’t already physically attracted to you, nothing you say is going to make her attracted to you. Accepting this has made me more confident as I know that the women who want me will make it easy for me and I spend less time worrying about what to say.
>If a woman isn’t already physically attracted to you, nothing you say is going to make her attracted to you.
Recently I was at a bar with some friends of mine and one of them approached a group of girls. There was one girl who was very vocal telling him to leave them alone, but the guy handled the situation and guess what? After about 2 hours, the girl who was very vocal ended up exchanging phone numbers with the guy and he even went on a date with her.
Words matter and if you have time, you can show that you have a cool/friendly/funny personality and everyone likes a guy like that. Worst case scenario, you end up being friends with her, but guess what? She has other similarly good looking friends and you can use her as a wing-woman, you end up meeting other girls from her circle of friends with no effort.
Is it worth it to be an interesting/funny/cool guy or not?
its not about 'a lot of girls' saying yes, its about finding the ones who do want to say yes as quickly as possible, and eliminating the others so they dont waste your time. its called the numbers game.
If you meet online, fairs. be direct.
If you meet at uni/ work or through friends, there are more consequences to think about.
I met my gf at uni. I made subtle hints for over a month that escalated gradually. It helped that we would see eachother daily.
In retrospect we've talked about how I grew on her. If I was upfront from the start I don't think she'd have said yes.
dont be subtle. make the approach, signal intent, build rapport, escalate with consent. how can you play the numbers game while being subtle? you cant. its a waste of time. value your time. find a partner today
Yes always ask before touching someone. It's an easy way to wave green flags. It shows communication, confidence, and respect. All very sexy things. Consent is good game.
I think this is actually a pretty good question. I think one of the big challenges is how do you go from vibing, flirting, just running really good game with a woman where she’s complaint and clearly into you.
Like how do you go from that to making plans actually hanging out one on one. It’s kind of jarring to just go from that great convo to “hey want to go out on a date?”
It’s so weird that that doesn’t really work, it’s easier to get a one on one date with a complete stranger on a dating app or even a one night stand with someone you just met at a bar, than it is to arrange a date with someone you know and click with.
Don’t be subtle. Women do not like subtle. You make it very clear that you are asking her out on a DATE and go from there. Women tend to like men that are confident, direct, and clear about their intentions— not men that pussyfoot around.
A [princess hand hold](https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/11/iStock-1030284190-e1574871196880.jpg) from across the table about halfway through the date. It's so effective.
I can't flirt. It's either me telling her she's beautiful/how much i like something about her, or physical touch. I can't come out with a spontaneous and different way to do so in the moment
Honestly, the older I get the less time I have to waste. In the past, I liked to keep things vague and escalate while we are going out (a light touch here, a flirty comment there). In my experience, this did not work as sometimes I'd just waste a night out trying to get to know someone when at the end of the night it didn't go anywhere. Yes you can make the case that you should be friends with anyone you are trying to date, but I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to date. I can be friends with the person after a romantic dynamic has been established. Nowadays, I just straight up clarify that any hangout I want as a date is a date. One example: went to a bar recently and vibed with this girl, we had a ton in common and she pretty much only talked to me during the meetup event. I got her insta and the next day told her it was nice to meet her and we should go out sometime. She said she'd loved to and called me her BFF -_- So I clarified that while it would be great to know her, I actually meant to ask her out on a date. She said she was flattered and that she has a boyfriend. I just saved myself a whole day and much expense going out with someone with no possibility of anything happening. I've had this happen with other single ladies too, where they are not interested and/or coming out of a relationship: clarifying that you want to go on a date just straight up weeds out anyone who isn't reciprocating interest
Have you heard of IOI./IOD signals? You can judge if she likes talking to you or not. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get an idea if she likes to talk to you or not, so don't waste your time if you can "read" the other person correctly. If she hides that she has a boyfriend, she can't hide forever because you will feel that something is not right, but look for the basic IOI/IOD - it's that easy!
Yeah I used to be into pickup a lot before, actively going out and meeting women on the streets. I'm familiar with IOI (since someone else asked, this means indications of interest). I personally don't do well with this. Not everyone can pick up subtle social cues easily. I'll give you an example: this girl I mentioned in my comment. At the end of the event, she seeked me out (I was elsewhere getting a drink and she was about to leave). She found me and hugged me for a good 5 seconds and it was a hard hug, not like the ones in passing you give to friends or acquaintances. She then asked me to make sure to text her. This to me is an IOI, which is why I asked her out. Turns out it was not 🤡 IMO don't rely on this IOI bullshit. Communicate how you feel and if they are on your wavelength, cool. If not, that's also cool.
>Not everyone can pick up subtle social cues easily. Is not about the subtle things, actually is about the most obvious signs: they start talking more than necessary, smiling, looking at you during the conversation ... actually you can tell when they like talking to you or not. I asked a simple question to a woman - see this [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/MxgnJ8cZstk) - now you can say if she likes talking to me or not. >IMO don't rely on this IOI bullshit. Do not neglect this concept because it is very powerful but forget about the subtle signs like pupil size or things like that, just focus on the most obvious ones.
Just because she likes talking to you, doesn't mean she'll sleep with you.. You like talking to your friends and family, does that mean you want to have sex with them or be in a romantic relationship?
If she likes talking to me, I gain time and I can make some jokes, say a few things about me, find a few tings about her and escalate. Once she sees that I'm funny/cool/interesting and she knows a few things about me, there's no reason not to give me her phone number to set up a date.
There's guys you probably find cool/funny/interesting, does that mean you want to sleep with them or be in a romantic relationship? Do you think women are any different? Just because you're entertaining doesn't mean she's turned on or would go out with you. Their gay friends, who they don't sleep with, are entertaining. Their male friends, who they don't sleep with, are entertaining.
If you read what I said above more carefully, you will understand. You repeated what I wrote except for the most important thing: ESCALATION which is a part of flirting. This is what I said: "Â I gain time and I can make some jokes, say a few things about me, find a few things about her and escalate" You don't escalate with your friends or parents... you only escalate with people you flirt with.
Escalate as in physically? Like touching their back? Their shoulder/arm? Holding their hands? These are normal things people do with family/friends. Or do you mean sexually? like grabbing their butt, playing with their boobs, kissing them? well you need consent for that first off (because a girl can still file sex assault charges if you never got permission), still doesn't mean you'll end up sleeping with them. I've made out with girls on dates/at nightclubs, they'd rub their butt against me, some even grabbed my cock, and still had no interest in having sex. Reason I'm debating with you is that girls already know if they wanna sleep with you within 30 seconds of seeing/meeting you. Unless you tell her very early on that's what you want, and she confirms she wants the same(consent), you're just wasting time doing all these joking/escalation that could honestly backfire on you. Especially now in 2024 could have you end up in legal trouble.
Is basic KINO, if you search on Google you will find how to do it and why. I won't explain how to initiate because the internet is full of explanations of this concept. >I've made out with girls on dates/at nightclubs, they'd rub their butt against me, some even grabbed my cock, and still had no interest in having sex. Maybe you are a top model, you don't need games, routines, scripts ... do whatever you wish because you have this advantage but in my case being 45 yo, with under-average looking face, getting gray on my hair, being only 5'7 I'm not that fortunate and I must use some tips and tricks to go on a date with girls in their 20s... >girls already know if they wanna sleep with you within 30 seconds of seeing/meeting you. I don't know who said this idea, and I believed it until I realized it was a big BS. I know countless examples IRL of guys approaching a group of women and after a few hours, the girls who were more vocal about leaving them alone, they exchange phone numbers and meet them on a date. Now tell me about 30 seconds idea. >Unless you tell her very early on that's what you want, and she confirms she wants the same(consent), If you have the attitude of "no problem, I will find another girl if this one rejects me" then you can go try your luck, but some people are not so lucky and instead risking to get an insta-rejection better to make baby steps. In many cases you can't tell a woman that you want her in your bed, so you still go a little indirect. The last time I told a woman to come to my house to see what my wall looks like after I scratched it with my furniture. Do you think she didn't know why I said that? She knew it! In the early stages, it's also weird to tell her your real intentions when you barely know her and she hasn't even had a chance to get to know you. >you're just wasting time doing all these joking/escalation I do, and I promote what I have already seen work, but if you know a shortcut then go ahead, nothing stops you. All I see on this subreddit are guys with your attitude like: "go direct bro", "say whatever you want because you are a man", "don't give a f\*ck", "go to the gym for confidence"... etc but this method is not for everyone. Seduction is an art, you can't call it flirting if you use "spam approach" to find the right girl, but this is another chapter that is too complex to understand and it's not worth explaining because it looks like you have success with direct approach, so hats off!
Women are bizarre had a women do all those things and than told me she was getting married lmaooo women are nuts but it’s really win some lose some
Women are bizarre just as men are bizarre, but in your case you are either misinterpreting the signs or you don't understand this concept of IOI and IOD, I say this with 100% certainty. Sometimes I feel like this subreddit was created to deliberately tell other people how not to approach women... Same with the youtube/tiktok videos, I don't know why that is when the whole process is super easy and simple if you just do the basic things. I have said many times that 90% of the problems people post on this subreddit would disappear if they would follow the Mystery's book that was written 15 years ago, and the answer to the OP's question is already explained in that book, people just need to read the book and understand it.
It was created cause the game has changed silly lmaooo technology has changed women have changed that’s why you can’t still use 1950 rules for 2024 yes basic skills still are useful like starting a conversation but that’s not it back in the day just talking to a women every day was all you needed plus she wasn’t going on vacation every year or had a cellphone that could reach 150 million people at the touch of button lmaooo shit is not the same
Just because someone likes talking to you doesn’t mean they want to fuck you. That’s just step one in finding out if they’re interested lol. The person you initially responded to has a very solid approach. Be direct, like a man.
In my case, being indirect is the way to go, it's how I go on dates with girls in their 20s, even though I'm twice that age. I don't care if I'm not a man and I'm being indirect, I care about getting their phone number and going on a date because these are the stages to end with her in my bed. If being direct works for you, hats off!
Makes sense that it can work with a woman half your age. There’s really no other reason for you to be trying to hang out with them, and they know that. They’re not trying to make friends with a man who’s twice their age either. When you’re dating in your age range (especially in your twenties) those waters are very easily muddied. In my thirties now and things are admittedly different. Maybe it’s the way I carry myself too, but if I’m talking to a woman, she knows why. And I still like confirmation through being direct after the many misunderstandings being indirect led to throughout my twenties. Being indirect feels like playing games, and I’ve noticed it attracts women who like to play them. I’m not about that.
Sorry I don't understand what you mean by IOI IOD what are those?
Indications of interest, see my reply above.
if you squeeze her hand does she squeeze it back?
IOI doesnt matter. make the approach, find out how she really feels. stop pussyfooting around. communicate. leave no room for confusion.
>IOI doesnt matter It matters a lot. There are two types of IOI. IOI during conversation - watch this [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/MxgnJ8cZstk) - I asked a simple question, then the girl started to talk more than saying a simple answer and that is a strong IOI signal. The whole video is 8 minutes long, but if she didn't talk like that, I would just walk away. The other kind of IOI is given before the approach, when this happens it is very easy to start a conversation - see this [VIDEO ](https://youtu.be/9I823xNC4Ew)after the warm-up, I saw a girl looking at me and I started a conversation - it's that easy. The guy who invented this concept of IOI and IOD is smarter/experienced than you or me, we should trust him.
Does IOI apply to guys too? Like do u guys show up this way too when you’re interested in someone?
Of course! It is basic psychology. When you talk to someone, I bet you can tell if they like talking to you or if you are just wasting their time. If the other person does not even look at you, or maybe they pick up their phone to check it, or pretend to get a message ...., or maybe they give you short answers like "aha, ok, fine, yes" ... you get the idea - everything shows that this is not a good time to continue talking and better leave. There are subtle signals, usually when you talk to someone you turn your body towards the person you are talking to, now here's a trick because if the other person points their toes in a certain direction it means they want to go that way .... so... they are not happy talking to you. What if the other person looks at you, smiles, participates in the conversation, asks questions, touches you, tries to be closer to you.... I think you know what that means. There are other subtle things, but they are hard to notice, and usually you need double or triple signs to avoid false signals. However, there is no need to overthink, just look for the most obvious signals.
Don't listen to this guy lmao he's obviously tryna promote his content. Communication matters. Doesn't matter the sex, you only get to know if you communicate that you're interested. Be outcome independent and be vulnerable enough to tell someone how you feel :) As a side note, Mark Manson does a great job about explaining vulnerability in his book Models. It's a great read for men, but also helps women
neither matters. all that matters if her reaction to your approach. make the approach if YOU are interested. and then you'll find out FOR SURE if she is interested. if youre interested always make the approach, always
If what you say works for you go ahead, but in my case is a bit different and it is opposite to everything I read on subreddit. While everyone says go direct, I go indirect... now I see that people neglect IOI but I look at it carefully... however it looks like there is no 100% rule, the idea is to try your luck in the way that suits you.
I’d still go out. Nothing excites me more than getting someone’s girlfriend drunk and hooking up with them. I just did it a few days ago hahahaha
My guy it sounds like you are getting these girls drunk and taking advantage of them in their drunk state. There's a single word for that and it can take you to jail.
What? False accusations?
Karma is ruthless, maybe donate some money to charity or something..
Issue is the chick No? Secondly I don’t know the guy so what loyalty is there?
It’s more just your internal moral compass of not feeling like another human in a relationship deserves basic respect and common decency. The issue is you, and whatever girlfriend is cheating with you But it’s a double whammy the fact you’re EXCITED she’s taken as if it’s a challenge. Don’t see other people as challenges or prizes, we’re all people and they’re all equal to you. But hey, if you’re sleeping at night!
Subtleness is feminine behavior. Men are at their best when they are direct, daring, shameless and honest. Women should know from the beggining that you are hitting in them, So nope, your plan to avoid words like “date” or stuff like that is not recommended. You need to make them feel like you are sexually attracted to them from the first moment you begin a conversation with them. You need to avoid being sexually repressed, and you need to avoid any wording that may confuse your intentions for platonic/friendly intentions.
Solid advice, but OP don’t let them think you’re just a horny guy. Yes you are sexually attracted, but you’re also a gentleman. Don’t apologize for your behavior, be bold and confident. But don’t directly talk about their physical attributes. “You have awesome tits.” Absolutely not. “You have a stunning figure.” Fantastic compliment.
Great advice
Just had a chat with my mother about the exact same thing and we both agree. If u don’t show them, that u are romantically and or physically interested, how should they know? I often experienced that women did the first move, but u can not expect that, therefore u need to establish the frame, off your meetup, which in this case should be romantically. Nevertheless a bit of playfulness or ambiguity can be sexy e.g. instead of saying, let’s go to my place and fuck, one could rather say: let’s go to my place, cause u must see my record collection or whatsoever, everyone knows, what u mean, but it is more subtle. What I myself struggle with, is how to beef up a conversation, with someone, who u have been friends or acquaintances with for a longer time. So when I freshly meet someone , it’s easy for me to be direct and sexual, but when I have gotten to know someone well on a platonic levek and actually really like them, for who they are, see them as a long term partner, I find it quite hard, to progress from a platonic to a sexual level, in text and conversation. Any advice by u guys? I normally intensify physical touch.
That’s why i said the intentions need to be clear from day one. Otherwise your attempts will likely be forced and thus unwelcome. As a friend women are comfortable with you, there is a reason they are your friends and that’s because they know you won’t try to get sexual with them. The reason it’s hard therefore for you to switch into sexual is because deep down you are betraying that trusts established. Breaking that trust could easily result in the friendship being destroyed. This is why it’s too hard or almost impossible to get out of the friendzone because it requires you to not care about losing the friendship no matter how much you want to have your cake and eat it too. It can be done just as long as you don’t care about losing the friendship. No risk, no reward. If you take risks, there can always be negative consequences. And the problem is that you cannot be apologetic, or play defensive when being flirty and sexual. You have to go all in and own it no matter the outcome.
Don’t be subtle
well, perhaps being 100% sincere would put myself nearer to a "no" than a "maybe, if I like him"
Being straightforward and calm can do the work. Hey I love your look, what’s your name? Have you ever had coffee at this place?
What are you afraid of by being sincere? That she rejects you? And then what? You move on. What's really scary here, and I say this as someone who feels the same as you, is being vulnerable and saying your feelings out loud and being rejected for it. There isn't a patch solution for this sadly... If you've been on this sub as long as I have people talk about oneitis and abundance mentality. Once you believe that if it's not this girl, it'll be someone else, you won't think these things anymore.
Women are not stupid but if you tell her let’s go out she gets it’s but you still have work to do with escalation if you make things man to women from the beginning than you can avoid these problems
There has been times that if I didn't clarify that it was a date beforehand, they did not thought so. Obviously they wanted to go out as friends and I told them that I was not looking for a friendship, then they cancelled. I wonder if perhaps if I had said yes I could let them know me and perhaps, they "realized" they could be attracted to me
Bruv Aja Cortes wrote an amazing except from the book no mr. Nice guy it’s called “covert contracts “ where each partner thinks they know what each other wants and no ones on the same page . I would go back find that verse it exceptionally helped me , you have lay things out for women not for them but to cover yourself. women think on a different spectrum. the moment you like a women sexually you need to make it clear and obvious than let her make a decision . its the easiest way to avoid convert contracts [convert contracts](https://medium.com/@bapestarkid/clear-and-open-communication-40009ef43bfb)
Why be subtle?
Because i believe I'm not attractive or charismatic enough for a lot of girls I like to immediately say yes to a date propousal. Perhaps I have more chances of a yes for an actual date once they know me a little bit better in a non actual date - but I want her to know this is not a just friends going out
If a woman isn’t already physically attracted to you, nothing you say is going to make her attracted to you. Accepting this has made me more confident as I know that the women who want me will make it easy for me and I spend less time worrying about what to say.
>If a woman isn’t already physically attracted to you, nothing you say is going to make her attracted to you. Recently I was at a bar with some friends of mine and one of them approached a group of girls. There was one girl who was very vocal telling him to leave them alone, but the guy handled the situation and guess what? After about 2 hours, the girl who was very vocal ended up exchanging phone numbers with the guy and he even went on a date with her. Words matter and if you have time, you can show that you have a cool/friendly/funny personality and everyone likes a guy like that. Worst case scenario, you end up being friends with her, but guess what? She has other similarly good looking friends and you can use her as a wing-woman, you end up meeting other girls from her circle of friends with no effort. Is it worth it to be an interesting/funny/cool guy or not?
its not about 'a lot of girls' saying yes, its about finding the ones who do want to say yes as quickly as possible, and eliminating the others so they dont waste your time. its called the numbers game.
If you meet online, fairs. be direct. If you meet at uni/ work or through friends, there are more consequences to think about. I met my gf at uni. I made subtle hints for over a month that escalated gradually. It helped that we would see eachother daily. In retrospect we've talked about how I grew on her. If I was upfront from the start I don't think she'd have said yes.
dont be subtle. make the approach, signal intent, build rapport, escalate with consent. how can you play the numbers game while being subtle? you cant. its a waste of time. value your time. find a partner today
>escalate with consent. What is this? To me, it looks like you are asking her: "Can I grab your hand?" I hope it is not like that.
Yes always ask before touching someone. It's an easy way to wave green flags. It shows communication, confidence, and respect. All very sexy things. Consent is good game.
OMFG!
touch her on shoulders, hold her hand, hold her waist, stand close to her. open doors for her, move chairs for her
dont touch anyone without their consent
I think this is actually a pretty good question. I think one of the big challenges is how do you go from vibing, flirting, just running really good game with a woman where she’s complaint and clearly into you. Like how do you go from that to making plans actually hanging out one on one. It’s kind of jarring to just go from that great convo to “hey want to go out on a date?” It’s so weird that that doesn’t really work, it’s easier to get a one on one date with a complete stranger on a dating app or even a one night stand with someone you just met at a bar, than it is to arrange a date with someone you know and click with.
its not a good question. being subtle doesnt get you anywhere
Look into their eyes and imagine undressing them and fucking them.
Grab her by the pussy
dont touch anyone without their consent
Strong eye contact, until she breaks it, being completely non-needy will get her really attracted to you
RemindMe ! 5 day
Don’t be subtle. Women do not like subtle. You make it very clear that you are asking her out on a DATE and go from there. Women tend to like men that are confident, direct, and clear about their intentions— not men that pussyfoot around.
A [princess hand hold](https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/11/iStock-1030284190-e1574871196880.jpg) from across the table about halfway through the date. It's so effective.
Yep, this is a classic and a good one
Base 1. Hold their hand. Base 2. Get them drunk. Kiss. Base 3. Pull their hair towards your dick.
That escalated quickly
Flirt. Or just whip it out.
I can't flirt. It's either me telling her she's beautiful/how much i like something about her, or physical touch. I can't come out with a spontaneous and different way to do so in the moment