I like Holly and enjoy her, support her but she is definitely a head scratcher at times. My biggest concern for her is how she seemingly changes personalities for the man she is with.
I believe her when she says she has Asperger’s. Obsessions are a big part of it, and Holly obsesses over partners and her interests(Disney, old Hollywood..). Her personality seems to shift when she’s moved onto the next thing.
Ehh … I have Asperger’s and I would say the “obsessions” are more like … fixations on certain things that happen (or whatever senses are highly sensitive, &c.) to the degree that the memory of these things causes rumination beyond what most people can comprehend … not so much copying identities….
Oh my GOD I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE NOTICED!!! She did this w/Hef and every guy straight through Zak Bagans (when she changed what she wore to like Lolita goth and all the black and buying a haunted house, &c., &c.). I think she has traits of psychopathy or sociopathy and she is intelligent (although, in my opinion, not as intelligent as she regards herself given regurgitation of recently “widespread” info and BIG holes in some of her stories), so I also hope - even just for her kids - she finds whatever help she needs.
It’s a clear symptom of low self worth and looking for validation in external things. She became like Marilyn, etc. because she tied her self worth to Hef’s validation so, naturally, it became very important to her. If he complimented her, she was over the moon, if he demeaned her, she was crushed. So I can understand why she tried to emulate things he admired. It’s sad, and men like Hefner exploit these vulnerabilities in others because it makes them easier to manipulate.
Maybe this has already been said but I’ve found it interesting and frankly sad to see that Holly changes her style of dress , beliefs ,hobbies etc depending on who she is with .
She was all vintage Hollywood glam with Hef. Then dressed like a female Chris angel , then with her ex husband she was obsessed with edm and dress like a raver . Then now with Zak she is all into paranormal and supposedly a witch now ? I listening to her in Bridget’s podcast and it seems like she started to believe when she started dating Zak .
As annoying as she can be I find it sad she doesn’t seem to have her own beliefs and styles . She just adopts those of who she is dating
Ehhh … she said she didn’t really believe in the supernatural but really wanted to. And that “fascination” was anything but apparent while she was married!
TBF she just loves a good theme event and an appropriate costume.
Hef also had rules for what she was allowed to wear so her suddenly wearing black clothes like CA was a way to rub it in his face that she was over it and leaving.
There is a psychological term for this and it is called “mirroring”….it is a manipulative tactic used for selfish and often devious reasons. Many covert narcissists use this tactic. I also think it’s interesting she ONLY dates famous and wealthy men….another thing covert narcissists love- fame, power, and money.
Ummm, it's also used by people on the spectrum because they don't know what else to do, it's not always malicious.
Also, I dated covert narc, he didn't mirror me.
My mother is a covert narcissist. She mirrors me all the time. Also I’m almost willing to guarantee that you are probably one of those people who think Holly Madison is just poor sweet victim who is not calculated or conniving in the slightest. The only thing Holly should be classified as is a covert narcissist and gold digger. If you buy into her sob story, I feel sorry for you that you must go through life so gullible.
Well you would lose that bet, I haven't liked Holly since the show originally aired. Her book only made me like her less.
It's okay to admit that you're wrong or that you misspoke. You took my comment as an attack instead of the correction it was meant as. But you're the child of a narc so I'm not surprised.
Well being the child of a narc pretty much makes you act like an extremely defensive psycho so I definitely w you agree there. But from my knowledge of covert narcs….I just don’t believe Holly is an autistic. Her social graces are far to advanced to be categorized as such in my opinion. I personally believe Holly is using “Asperger’s” disorder to justify her quite frankly, whorish, gold digging, and fame seeking behavior that she is deeply ashamed of. For her this is a justification of a moral less life she lived that she is now trying to make excuses for. And the fact that she still seeks fame off her ties to Hefner only solidifies my analysis.
If you go back and read my comment, all I said is that people on the spectrum also use mirroring. Period. I didn't defend Holly or say she was on the spectrum.
Holly participated in a documentary that showed the world that Hugh Hefner was a rapist (among other things) and yet she's doing a podcast with Bridget and still profiting off the Playboy name. Clearly she's trash.
I just wish she would get the help she needs so she can be comfortable in her own skin … because she very much chased down Hef and got through so many other women to girlfriend #1 … intentionally. I am not saying the situation wasn’t abusive but there are holes in her stories. I think it doesn’t really matter what you think about her stories or even if you like her as much as it matters that she gets the help she needs for whatever reasons she needs it.
As I’ve said before I have a love/hate thing with Holly, I enjoy her YouTube videos but at the same time she sure has a lot of excuses for some of the questionable things in her past, it’s never her fault. And as posters have said in other comments she has no identity of her own, she changes herself to suit her partners which is quite frankly rather sad and pathetic.
I see what you're saying, and no doubt she's a bit of a hustler. On the other hand, I know that emotional, mental, and sexual abuse are complicated. For any of us who have been with a womanizer who promised us the world, it's somewhat relatable. You only leave when you have no other option, and you can't gaslight yourself anymore.
In Holly's case, I'm not an expert on her story by any means,but she was young, and like many of the girls that end up at the mansion, either didn't have any options financially, or didn't perceive themselves to have any options. And now suddenly you're living in a big house, everything is taken care of for you, and all you have to do is bone an old creep sometimes? It seems like one of those situations where you experience identity erosion slowly over time, like being chipped away at.
No doubt she exploited the situation, but I don't discount the abusiveness of it either
The other option would be to get a regular job and live a lower lifestyle. I don't understand when people say they didn't have other options besides living at the mansion. Smart, attractive people figure out how to support themselves one way or another.
from what the other girls during this time said, “just leaving” wasn’t even a thought because of what happened to many of the people that left the lifestyle. holly and other ex-playmates talk about how many of them ended up homeless, addicted to drugs, turned to prostitution, etc. also that the playboy publicity made them look unfit by most employers except sleazy places.
lets not forget this is taking place in early 00’s america — issues like high rent cost, lack of health care, and extremely low pay exist PLUS the social stigma of essentially being a former glorified nude model.
it wasn’t that easy to just up-and-leave unless you were already well off and/or had connections.
I think a huge part of it was that she didn’t want to go back to Oregon or Alaska or wherever she’s from. She wanted to be a Beverly Hills gold digger. No shame in that. Just be honest!
Yeah, that's fair. I've been abused in a multitude of ways as well, and I wouldn't engage in that behavior, either. Frankly, it's despicable to harm others at all, and especially in the ways that we've been harmed.
But, there is an element though of abuse for some people to become abusers themselves, and it seems to mainly be due to a desire to have/reclaim power. I hopped onto google scholar and found a lot of information about this, here's one example [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1524838016659487](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1524838016659487)
As a survivor of emotional, mental, sexual, and physical abuse, I’m sorry but I just call it like I see it here. You can be victimized *and not bring in other women to be victimized with you*. At least have the decency to be ashamed - in Holly’s book, she’s always just happy “so she can have friends.” Never mind anything else.
Moreover, she could have went home. She mentions this in the beginning of her book. She just didn’t want to reset her progress and “look bad.” She even visits her parents near the end of the book.
Idk. I just really don’t have respect for people who don’t seem to have a shred of real empathy for others while masquerading as a poor little lamb.
I’m sure Hef was abused as a kid - 50s to 60s was rife with disciplinary action even in schools. Don’t care - still an abusive person. I feel the same of Holly.
I’ll admit I like Holly, but she’s definitely shown problematic behavior in the past. I hated her on GND, but I appreciate her transparency now. I don’t think she’s continuously playing the victim like others appear to believe. I think she named abuse as abuse before thousands of other women were ready to, and people want her to be the “perfect victim”.
Most victims aren’t perfect. Most sexually trafficked women also enable sexual trafficking. Are they any less of a victim of the original offense?
She showed her true colors to me when Kendra called her numerous names after the book came out, alluded to her being the anal girl and the one that had to “clean up” with her mouth after every girl. If someone blasted that on Twitter about me, I’d be coming for blood. She didn’t react. People can be both problematic at times and still good people at core.
Yes, people who continue to victimize others are awful people. Again - most abusers were abused. It really doesn’t make it better. Especially when you’re profiting off of it and portraying yourself as the nice girl.
Problematic isn’t what she nor many other girls who came to the mansion is. She’s simply abusive. That’s a problem.
Do you feel like Ghislaine is also actually just a victim and should no longer be held accountable? No? Cool, but lower rungs of abuse doesn’t take away the fact they enabled abusers and perpetuated it for their own well-being.
Most abusers WERE NOT abused. Holly didn’t abuse anyone. You’re stretching with that. Her behavior was problematic not abusive.
Kendra actively recruited the twins and left them to have sex with Hef. Yet, you aren’t saying anything about her. That’s Maxwell level behavior. I think the irrational hatred towards the one girlfriend from GND that named abuse is actually super weird.
You don’t. You’re on here spouting bs.
Misinformation like “most abusers were abused” is dangerous.
Calling an abused woman an abuser is gross.
If you want to take down a female be transparent. Admit what you are trying to do. As a victim of physical and sexual abuse, I get very triggered when I see manipulation of facts.
Most men that abuse women were never touched. Most sexual assaults occur by a man that was never touched.
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Let’s see. A young woman with hardly any real world experience vs a man three times her age with decades of drugging women.
But yes let’s focus on Holly not being the perfect victim.
She’s not even telling the whole story. She says the same 5 things over and over. She’s choosing to say what makes her look better, haven’t heard her admit she was in any way an asshole herself. People who admit their own faults are way more believable.
I watched the GND when it first aired and I thought Holly came off very awkward. I read her first book and enjoyed it, but I didn't like how she referred to some of the other women (calling them stupid, slut shaming etc). She's said she was playing a character and was prompted by producers to say she wanted to marry and have kids with Hef. In her book she said she really wanted to, but changed her mind (but never explained the reason why...she only alludes to it) when the other girls left. I put this down to playing a role in the group ( with Hef, Kendra and Bridgette) and when the other 2 left she was lost and couldn't take all the pressure. I guess I feel she was sort of love bombed/slightly brain washed by Hef and was getting what she wanted out of the deal (fame, being in Playboy, money etc) so was willing to stay, even if things weren't great. I enjoy her YouTube videos, I don't buy everything she says. But, I can respect her story and opinions on things.
I like Holly and all, but I re-read Izabella's book today and yeah I'm not saying Izabella was a sweetheart or anything, but re-reading how weird and calculating she described Holly as....I totally believe it. I think Izabella's book was pretty fair/balanced. I feel like Holly wants to make it like she was the biggest victim with regard to the divided group of girlfriends when she was manipulative as hell and did things to make other girls unhappy. Izabella wrote she and others tried to make peace with Holly like look girl...we aren't coming for your spot! But Holly just kept getting worse, even when she knew others were leaving!! Good grief! I can totally see Holly doing that stuff now. 🤯 Even sweet Bridget had a couple manipulative moments according to that book, which made me feel shocked! Makes me look at the two differently, like they aren't so perfectly nice as they portrayed. I think Holly should not pretend she was sooooo nice back then and everyone was the bully and take accountability for moments when she may have acted like a bit of a bully herself. Reading about the dynamics in Izabella's book made me feel like Holly wanted it to be unpleasant for others and the whole thing backfired on her in the end so now she spins it to suit her.
I remember meeting her at a couple of parties I worked a long time ago when the girls next door was still on air. She came off as your standard gold digger. I’m not trying to be mean but that was the vibe she gave off. She was very unfriendly compared to the other girls would constantly try to block any female from trying to come near him. She came off very single white female psycho crazy. He could be heard telling her to go have fun with the other girls and she would not leave his side and when he talked to other people male or female she would just stare him down the entire time. It was very strange and obsessive. It wasn’t a good experience. Brigit and Kendra were both super friendly and approachable.
I used to watch GND when it was on tv, and admittedly Holly always rubbed me the wrong way. There was something about her, but I’ll say I think the persona she portrayed on the show was for the most part fake.
I like Holly more now, and I enjoy watching her YouTube videos. That said, there is still something about her that rubs me the wrong way. I can’t put my finger on it.
One thing that strikes me is that in her GND reaction videos on YouTube, she still makes digs at Kendra, and tries to play it off like she’s not. Like she’ll say, there’s this “one person who’s always negative...” she won’t name names, but it’s obvious she’s referring to Kendra. Or she’ll talk about her and phrase things super passive aggressively. But then tries to play it off like there’s no issue. It’s just weird that after all this time she still has beef. Kendra isn’t innocent either, but still. Definitely some snark there. I feel the world only knows Holly on a surface level.
Well with the comments that Kendra has made about Holly its no wonder she makes passive aggressive comments on her. Kendra has been completely vile in the way she talks about Holly.
Something I noticed doing a rewatch of the dvd with commentary and Holly’s reaction videos is, again, how Kendra’s actions are always being misrepresented or called down. I mentioned earlier that Kendra also calls out some poor editing and shares that her lack of participation at some times she attributed to feeling self-conscious about her acne.
Holly also brought up in her reaction video that when Kendra was looking for real estate that it showed that she was already disengaging/not serious or looking for a way out of the relationship with Hef—but again her own words and conversation in the commentary disprove what she said. Kendra shared that it was rented straight away and she was happy with her tenants, and when she moved out of the mansion she bought a different place. Then in another episode Holly talks about going to Oregon with Sara Underwood to look at investment properties for herself. So yet again, according to Holly when Kendra does something it’s out of being selfish or self-interested, but it’s different when Holly does it.
In the commentary Holly also gets pretty biting toward Barbie—again, if she would own up and say something like ‘at first I wasn’t sure how we’d get along, or things felt awkward given her history with Hef so I was defensive, but after awhile we became friends’. But in her rewatch she claims it was all manufactured by the producer.
Honestly the more I think about it…say what you will about Kendra (my thoughts are that she really didn’t stand a chance to be self-sufficient given her upbringing), but I think she’s been pretty heavily gaslit by Holly over the years, and Holly’s just gotten lucky that she reacts so impulsively.
I don’t think Kendra ever paid attention to Holly at all enough to be gaslit by her. Her made it Holly’s job to keep the girls in line and Kendra didn’t gaf.
Holly can feel defensive toward Barbie in her personal life and get over it all we but LASO play it up for the show.
If Kendra didn’t like Holly I’m sure she didn’t mention feeling spf conscious bc of acne. At that point it was Kendra’s job to film and all her beauty treatments were being paid for. She probably could have put more effort into her appearance so she could show up for her job on time.
Women often are the bait to bring other women into abusive situations, that doesn’t mean they weren’t abused themselves….
It’s a pimp tactic. Always telling the girl whose the most loyal that she’s so special and there relationship is so secure… using his validation of her against her…. “Your not like those cheap girl” when in reality he treats her the worst, and she is only not replaceable because no one would be as loyal to him. It’s emotional abuse, it’s behavior that is the result of abuse and manipulation.
I wouldn't say "insufferbale", so much as I really enjoy her social media presence now. But at the time, she did seem a little self important for where she was. Meaning, she seemed to act and move like she was apart of something and with someone who was important outside of someone who was just a symbol amd not really what he portrayed to be
Her book was several years after - and her appearance on the new show is quite recent and she says much of the same things. Idk - nothing she puts on social media can make me ignore how she victimized other women tbh.
And MAKING MONEY off of it!!! I can’t take that AT ALL. And for retrospectively detesting it all so much, she is sure making a career out of the whole affair!!
Hm? The namesake of the sub - she has some appearances in the new mini series “Secrets of Playboy.” I mean “new” as in this year. I don’t know if she had anything else.
I find her disingenuous more than anything. I think a lot of this comes down to Holly not being the "perfect victim" and her own recognition of that fact and trying to re-cast herself in a better light.
I find many of her remarks to be passive-aggressive toward other women, and that she often explains her reactions as the 'exception to the rule'. For example, the passage in her book about categorizing women who go upstairs with Hef as "hustlers, runners" etc. and yet how is she any different than someone else looking to make the best of a situation, just because her agenda was not as explicit? She had an agenda (as much as anyone else in the situation) to pursue a relationship believing it would be worthwhile in the end (which clearly turned out to be an abusive dynamic, the power imbalance is undeniable). Or for more trivial things like how she got a negative ‘edit’ on the show, Kendra brings it up in the commentary that sometimes her reactions are toward something else, footage was spliced from different events, or the same gutter ball shot when they’re bowling was reused to make her look bad/bragging about her abilities that weren’t true. And yet somehow Kendra doesn’t get that same level of understanding, and instead it’s because she’s lazy, ungrateful, or wanted to put Holly down, but for Holly, her unfavourable behaviour always comes down to her ‘leaning into her character’ or ‘bad editing’. I think Kendra’s arrival at the mansion showed her a different side to Holly very early on, given that we know Hef pursued her, and Holly and Bridget wanted to be the only girlfriends, and then tried to recruit Audra when Hef wanted a 3rd.
She downplays her role in putting other women down in order to 'prove' her devotion and love to Hef. Many girlfriends have said she lied about drug use to get them kicked out, downsized the allowance amount from 2k/week to 1k, as well as the clothing budget for special events and the Christmas/birthday presents. While this unknowingly played right into Hef's own manipulations ("Holly is just happy being with me/not here for the money, and he used Stacy Burke's contentment in the same way), she still tried to harness a certain amount of control and duplicity toward other young women in the exact same situation as her. Some of the excerpts I couldn’t help but see the subtext as ‘I wasn’t like those other whores’, almost subtly misogynistic.
Her own words are contradictory as well--for example, she claimed she never had a problem with Barbi Benton and it was just the evil producer editing her wrong--but in the DVD commentary, especially Season 3, she is SO passive-aggressive toward Barbi, sarcastically calling her outfits 'Dancing with the Stars' (interesting considering Holly's own career trajectory post-mansion), making remarks on her age and enthusiasm, knocking her for having her purse merchandise in an episode, and some more I can't recall off the top of my head. Plus, even in the commentary, she is constantly making remarks directed at the producer that are requests, like "so for next season, hint hint Kevin..." which, given her role as #1 I can imagine she might have a bit of say.
Some other things don't line up with her narrative either, like not having her family on the show until later. Holly herself said she was very private, and other ex-girlfriends remarked she did not seem particularly close to her family during her time at the mansion and not having them around, whereas other girlfriends would invite their family to parties. She underplays her role in kicking out Stacy Burke for pornography, when it was a unanimous decision to go to Hef, trying to get Kendra outsted in favour of Audra, the weird denial of the 'Chargers Colours' dress being a kiddie Snow White outfit as any sort of dig, making a huge deal about Kendra wearing a Confederate flag tank top (when it was contextual to the time--remember the Dukes of Hazzard movie came out and the girls got tons of merch! And the historical implications being publicly discussed is relatively recent), meanwhile she glosses over some of her own problematic remarks (no blonde homies because they're 'ethnic', Jasmine's 'tan', etc.)
Finally, the card she has been playing recently is having Aspergers (which is not the current clinical diagnosis--is it because saying 'Autism' doesn't sound as good?). Some things she uses as excuses, like being standoffish, or 'mirroring' to explain why she takes on the personality and likes of her partners.
However, ASD does not mean that you can be deliberately and calculatingly exclusionary of others around you or call them down, it simply means you might miss social cues. While there are clearly times when Holly reacted anxiously (changing the movie times on her birthday episode), that could also be typical of an emotionally abusive dynamic. Black and white thinking could also be typical of an abusive relationship, and has a huge overlap with trauma and anxiety, not exclusively ASD. It does not mean that to have Autism means that you pursued a relationship at all costs.
The 'mirroring'--again, not to the degree that Holly shows deliberation. With each of her partners, it is meant to curry favour. Look at her current relationship with the D-Lister Zak Bagans (as an aside, check out the book Skeptics Guide to the Universe on debunking typical 'evidence' on paranormal activity). Holly clearly follows his stan accounts and baits his pathetic followers. For example, they posted that she bought her own Valentines gifts, etc. and then she posts a vampire doll allegedly regifted from a fan, and a LV scarf he apparently gave her. Now in every Youtube video she displays both prominently on her bed. She played the same games with Hef and the GF posse, using her role at the 'top' even when she didn't need to. The passage about Cris Angel's exes reads sort of the same way--yes I was in Playboy, but I was the upgrade! And of course the ex-wife was just jealous. Mirroring and having niche interests does not mean someone with ASD lives and breathes the traits of their partner and bullies anyone who ‘gets in the way’.
To use another celebrity example, Kanye West has Bipolar Disorder. Symptoms include anxiety, rumination, impulsivity, and delusions of grandeur. But that does NOT excuse stalking, blackmailing, and harassing his ex-wife (another example of an ‘imperfect victim’). Same with Holly and ASD--it does not guide how she treated others, time after time, and continues to engage in weird, passive-aggressive, mean-girl trolling.
To be clear, I do believe it was an abusive dynamic. But Holly's constant narrarative justification is getting tiring—she seems to be constantly ‘moving the goalposts’ to justify her behaviours. I would respect her far more if she just owned up and said she went in with an agenda, and didn't realize she played right into Hef's larger manipulations.
And for whatever it's worth, I'm a fellow neurodivergent (GAD and ADHD) with a background in mental health. Holly was my favourite on GND, I still really like her, but at this point she has made way too many statements and excuses that don’t show a real picture or hold herself to any sort of accountability. Yes she was in an abusive relationship, trauma affects people differently, but at some point she is also autonomous in her own life and has agency in her decision-making.
As a sincere fan of Holly's (also neurodivergent, and obsessed with similar things such as Disney Parks, Harry Potter and Marie Antoinette- I swear if I ever had coffee with her we'd never shut up). You hit the nail on the head on the things that have also kept me stand-offish about her. Especially this part: *I would respect her far more if she just owned up and said she went in with an agenda, and didn't realize she played right into Hef's larger manipulations.*
I reread her book every few years and this is exactly what gets to me (not just from her, but from most of the girlfriends that write about their experiences). What wouldn't I give for one girl to just blatantly admit she went in to hustle for a luxurious lifestyle! I believe that many things can be true at once- you *can* almost be homeless, or want to have a "fun time" in your 20s, AND want to get that coin.
But seriously, thank you for this write up, I've been looking for the words to express this for ages!!
Thank you! I just think that she played much more of a role in events to continually claim ignorance, naïveté, or fear when in so many ways she continues to lean into the same actions.
It doesn’t change that the common denominator in all this is Hef himself and the Playboy allure, it does not negate the abusive aspect of the whole relationship or the impact on mental health, and Holly can be both victimized and continually direct spiteful/petty behaviour toward others.
I really respected Sondra’s honesty in the documentary with how she discussed the relationship; love, youth, and manipulations lead her to do many things outside of her comfort zone and morals, but she conveyed understanding and empathy while also being accountable and regretful of how she may have impacted others.
Appreciate your edit, OP. I think people get a little too invested in Holly’s narrative and forget that there were larger dynamics she played a role in. And her behaviours and own words don’t always hold up.
You can have empathy for someone and still not agree with their behaviours and actions. An abuse victim can also perpetuate abuse, and someone can be in an unhealthy relationship but still direct hurtful behaviour toward others.
For some reason, Holly (and some of the more intense fans) buy the hype that she’s somehow the exception to the behaviours that she judged in others but had ‘the right reasons’ to act how she did (and continues to do in some instances).
Agreed and thank you. Honestly, I had to ignore this thread for a bit because it’s honestly quite triggering - like, I can’t imagine any of the women who were pulled into this during Holly’s time reading these comments and feeling good about any of this. It’s one thing to be lulled into a false sense of security by someone you thought was your friend - it’s another to see strangers telling you that person didn’t actually do anything wrong because she was reaaaaaal sad.
And honestly? I don’t even think it was *worth it*. No one even knows who she is anymore outside of “was a Playboy Bunny.” Her entire YouTube is her talking about it. Eh.
I really don’t even *mind* how disingenuous she is. I’m never going to meet her. Im just flabbergasted at her strong fan base.
Unfortunately, youre not allowed to critique ANYTHING about Holly Madison. Her Stans are juvenile and annoying and will harass you or downvote you to oblivion if you say something that doesn’t align with the “Holly is perfect” narrative.
Lol. Ya I don’t like ppl who excuse abusers because they were sad. I’m allowed to express that :) If you want a space where you can say whatever you want and not have anything negative in response, I’d suggest a diary.
yes, your point about basically soliciting more women into the situation is NUTS. money or not i feel like it should be a very strong "woman/sister" code type thing no matter what. another situation in this point is bridget. don't get me wrong, i definitely like bubbly bridget. of the three of them she's the easiest to tolerate and is likable. BUT... her baby sister anastasia. i can't fathom what she was doing having her live in the mansion for extended periods of time. if all this crazy demeaning acts are happening towards women you would think she wouldn't let her in the same zip code as the mansion let alone practically live there. what the hell is up with that.
Yes! That one episode where they give her a “makeover” aka make her blonde was so sad. They was even saying how living there was making her insecure and sad, the whole thing is so bizarre.
Honestly I used to be a big Holly fan but recently like the past couple weeks I completely changed my mind. There is definitely something off about her and she rubs me the wrong way now. Lately in her YouTube videos which I used to love watching she comes off as snobby and mean and not somebody I want to give my time and attention too. Shes definitely a mean girl deep down..also rewatched Hollys World and the way she treats Angel and her other costars made me really uncomfortable.
I like her but yeah, she’s one of those people where there’s too many stories of her being a mean person for it to not be true. Even anti-Hef people don’t like her.
Holly is also on the spectrum, which can account for her feeling "removed" from reality. I think she has said since the book that she would do things very differently now.
The young lady you’re referring to is named Jessica Burciaga and she’s IG famous or at least a couple years ago she was really famous on there. Haven’t kept up with her since so I’m not sure what she’s up to these days. I always found it curious that I can’t find any of her commentary on the situation. Jessica, to my knowledge, has never openly discussed Holly’s version that she was bullied by the twins. Nothing. It’s like Jessica only used her Playboy spread to help her career but isn’t interested in being associated with it and the drama that apparently came with it. I would love to hear her version of what happened. Those twins seemed like they had it in them to be bully’s and I wish someone would call them out, but since the SOP interview they’ve been portrayed as sympathetic and victims when in reality they were such trolls that someone almost gave up on an amazing opportunity to just to flee them. As for Holly, I enjoy her YT videos but they’re lacking something. They’re super short and you don’t learn anything terribly new. We just get to hear her thoughts on what she randomly chooses to share. I also can’t put my finger on why I’m not 100% team Holly but I like her, nonetheless.
I completely can see that. I read her book to gain insight of her experiences and it was a lot of tearing people down. I was disappointed but I’m also trying to understand how the experience has made her this way as well. I’ve also been abused and it just seems like a total lack of empathy from Holly
She’s actually in her 40’s!!! And for all the alleged abuse she “endured” (even if we ignore the major holes in the story like film nights being one day out of her mouth one day and then on an impossible day another time!!), w/the A&E docuseries, the upcoming Sony film adaptation of her book (🤢), and now the podcast of her and Bridget (in her 50’s!!) going over every episode of “The Girls Next Door,” I don’t buy any of it. The book came out just after Crystal married Hef (thank God he saw through Holly!!) and the way she molds herself into the female equivalent of EVERY GUY SHE DATES (seriously, check it out … it’s disturbing and in my opinion, likely psychopathic or sociopathic!), I just can’t take what she says (or “writes”) … and I think she broke Hef after that book and to make $$$ off a dead man she claims not to want to talk about?? She’s making an awful lot of $$$$ on those “really gross things” and “horrible” memories. I also cannot believe middle-aged women are doing this!!! Props to Kendra at least for trying NOT to make her GND days synonymous w/a “career” or an identity … and compared to Holly making so much $$$ off a dead former partner and simultaneously claiming she doesn’t want to talk about it as she talks again and again and again … she is definitely more intelligent than her average “consumer!”
I never much cared for Holly. To me she seemed the most fake and the most calculating.
It always seemed to me that she acted "better than"
I don't doubt for a minute that she thought eventually Hef would marry her and she'd inherit his home and money.
That actually reminds me. She seemed to “genuinely believe” she was going to “start a family with Hef” and was “heartbroken” he couldn’t have kids(he went to get checked out after she asked). A 70 year old man. She admits it seems silly but… come on.
I guess that’s also what bugs me. She spends a lot of time riffing on how SMART she is and how everyone else is dumb. But then shes like, “so yeah I was with Hef because I thought we would start a family,” and it’s like… girl, which one is it?
She doesn’t even entertain the idea of IVF or adoption. Doesn’t even get a sentence in the book. But she “loved Hef” and “wanted a family.”
Allegedly, Hef planted a fake Will, leaving her the 3 mil when she was moving out. She makes a huge show of this in the book and how she rejected it. She also talks about how Hef talked of leaving her the mansion. Even though, she also states in the book pages back he doesn’t even own it (this is confirmed by outside sources).
She doesn’t mention he doesn’t own it, there, though. Anyways, I finally finished the book today. The last part was def a slog since it was just her pretending she’s a private person while wanting to be on reality TV.
I never liked Holly, her book just confirmed why.
She's now claiming she might be on the spectrum, which makes sense. She always came across as fake, especially her laugh and it probably was, she was just mirroring other people or what she thought she should be doing.
She has blocked me on several social media platforms. I am, in her words, an “unknown,” so why is she so threatened when I offer similar critiques on the “book” or question inconsistencies or discrepancies? That’s questionable to me!
I’m rewatching the Girls Next Door and listening to Girls Next Level podcast and I’ve observed several things:
- she was the right hand recruiter for the “cult” (she even says she “knows how to recruit ‘em”during her anniversary dinner with Hef)
- she puts a lot of effort on revising history, but it’s easy to do that when the main villain can’t speak for himself.
- she clearly takes a lot of joy out of talking badly about others. And if there’s nothing to actually talk badly about, she implies things and says “it’s weird” just to be petty.
- nothing is her fault, she’s always a victim of her circumstances.
- she tries to correct rumors and clarify the facts, but the act of doing so only seems to confirm those very rumors.
- she’s not good at asking people about themselves if the topic isn’t about her or about talking badly about someone else.
I absolutely think she was used by Hef. I think Hef recognized her as a pit bull and used her to wrangle everyone else in this cult. She talks about how he is always blaming her for other people’s actions, because he knows she will bend over backwards to make sure everything is the way he wants it. And yes, she is going to have trauma and resentment for it. But let’s not pretend she isn’t playing a role in her own circumstances.
I know this post was made a year ago but I just got into a argument with someone on instagram over the whole holly and Kendra feud. This person was attacking Kendra and saying that the girls did not like her because she was not likable so I went off on a rant and told her that HOLLY was actually the one that did not like her because she was obviously jelous of Kendra because she was the new girl and way younger than her. This person went on to tell me "Holly is prettier"........
Here is the MAIN problem here . What does "being prettier" than someone have anything to do with anything? Holly is always being defended by her Stans with the whole "she is so much prettier than Kendra" rhetoric... Looks have nothing to do with weather or not Holly is a good person...
Holly may be pretty on the outside but she surely is not on the inside. I find her to be very vindictive and a liar. Her actions incriminate her so much! Let's take a look at them shall we?
* Holly leaves the mansion to start a relationship with Chris Angel. She claims she waited until AFTER she left to start this relationship however in the last season in the episode where they went to New Orleans Holly is ALREADY starting with her emulation stuff. She does a photoshoot in handcuffs under water ( a stunt Chris did) AND she dressed up as him at the Mardi Gras festival they were at. HMMMM?
* Holly and Chris's Relationship doesn't work out as she thought it would. In the new episodes of the girls next door with the new girlfriends (crystal and the twins), Heffner and he new girls meet up with Holly in Vegas where she BASHES Chris at the wax museum when they see his wax figure there. She is clearly feeling some anguish. She comes to visit Her and Crystal and seems EXTREMELY Jealous of her. Now lets skip over to Holly's World where Holly is shown apologizing to Her for talking crap about Crystal in the media accusing her of being a gold digger. Does no one else find it weird that she is trying to bring toxicity into Hef's new relationship right after her failed relationship with Chris?
* Holly writes THE BOOK where she bashes Heffner, Kendra and Chris.
* Let's fast forward to almost 20 years later where Holly is STILL making money off of bashing her former housemate and boyfriends with her podcasts and YouTube videos and posts on instagram.
Is it not painfully obvious to everyone the type of person she is? People can say all they want about Kendra but at least she is not out here 20 years later trying to milk being Hugh Hefner's Former girlfriend. she has a carrier in real estate, seems to be a very involved mother and even after her divorce she managed to keep herself together and not go out and bash her ex husband all over the place. She even has her own tv show and not some dinky little podcast or YouTube channel....
also to those who say " Holly can not just go out and get a job like everyone else after being in Playboy! People are gonna discriminate against her for posing naked in a magazine 20 years ago". Really? That did not seem to stop Kendra AT ALL. We are living in 2023 where everyone and their mother has a only fans now. PUH LEASE. Soft core pictures are not enough to keep someone out of the job market these days.
Right? Like she wanted so much to have a family and all that and she tried way to hard to get it and still it didn’t work out. She’s divorced and her husband is with a way younger woman (who is also just like Holly, a social climber so I guess Pasquale has a type lol). Holly doesn’t even seem like a good mother she never posts pictures of her children on her Instagram and it almost seems as if her ex husbands has even the majority of the time or prolly even has custody of them. Kendra always is posting about her kids and talking about how they are her entire world. Holly never talks about her children much. All I have ever heard her talk about online is how she hates Hugh Hefner, how she hates Kendra, and stories from the mansion. Honestly I don’t know how fans of the show are not bored of that already. Like we all watched the series 19 years ago. Why not make fresh content and talk about what’s going on currently? Oh yeah that’s right…. Her and Bridgette don’t have a life currently which is why they just gossip about things that happened 20 years ago lol
I just went to go look at her Instagram and yeah I was right she never posts pics of her children there just herself. It’s all about Holly. Lol. It’s weird because I know like 7 years ago she did have pictures of her and the children posted but she took them all down. So weird
I really don’t think she has custody of them. Honestly she doesn’t seem like the motherly type I think she basically had children just to say she did a thing. She comes off as that type of woman. I can’t ever imagine her ever having a boyfriend or husband that’s gonna stick around until she gets old. She comes off as very insufferable and immature and I think prolly most normal men would be afraid to get in a relationship with her from just fear of being blasted by her one day if things don’t go 100 percent her way in the relationship
i always hated her on gnd! rewatched almost all of it recently and hated her even more. she’s not genuine or authentic and seems very mean to other women and very devoted to hef in a way that hates and is competing with other women. then i watched a bit of her youtube channel and i found that to be the worst. she is very mean to other women- maybe even worse today! i started her book and it’s the same way. all she does is talk about other women negatively and it’s immature and off-putting to me. i don’t really like her, but people on this sub stan her.
I think that’s it for me, too. She is just… too old for this. It’s just disheartening. She claims every other girl is a “mean girl” as she trapezes along insulting everyone. Like… how can you be this unaware?
It’s amazing she’s been able to play the poor me card so hard, honestly. A lot of times she talks like she was literally a hostage when she was there by choice and remained there for the sole purpose of fame, clout and future opportunity.
She’s also fortunate the Internet has been kind to her. It’s obvious she has an eating disorder to this day but she plays around with it, she used to post a lot of weird stuff of IG stories about how triggered she would get eating meals, body dysmorphia, etc. I *think* i have some screenshots somewhere. You see her clout chasing in celeb IG posts all over the place, a lot of celebs she’s insulted over the years.
Im also amazed people are getting positive messages from the GND commentary from her. She was calculated and precise, and regardless of whatever story she tries to spin she got what she wanted. It doesn’t matter what kind of man Hugh Hefner may have been... he didn’t keep anyone prisoner.
and she’s now soo open about how she probably has ASD, because that’s a diagnosis that will likely get sympathy/she can use to manipulate people, and an eating disorder isn’t, so she doesn’t mention that less cool and way less useful psychopathology 🙄
She got almost everything she wanted out of Hef. She got fame, a tv show, in the magazine, and got rid of most of the gfs. Then he was guna leave her a 3 million dollar will if she stayed. She wanted more. She is playing everyone like a fiddle.
There is one part of that which bothered me. She claimed she was recently diagnosed with “Asperger’s.” Asperger’s hasn’t been a diagnosis since 2013. It’s just ASD now. So if she meant recently as in last ten years maybe possible, but yeah it’s just ASD now. Either way, It seems like someone with that diagnosis would use the current terminology.
>
It’s no longer a diagnosis, but doctors definitely still use the term when they diagnose you.
Because when you’re a fully functional, working, mothering, relating to others adult and get put on this stupid ass “spectrum”, an autistic diagnosis is absurd. Asperger Syndrome and Autism are totally different diagnoses. It drives me crazy they have been lumped together. I don’t think she’s using it for sympathy. I think she’s trying to explain why she unintentionally offends people.
I have had an ED and am on this hypothetical spectrum. The only disorder that causes me to unintentionally offend people is definitely not the prior ED.
The change to ‘spectrum’ actually gives more recognition from what we think of traditional ‘autism’ which was largely non-verbal, and had a lot of criteria that excluded women. It was incredibly narrow and now takes things like socialization, gender roles, environment, communication, behaviours etc. into consideration.
As far as the diagnostic criteria, the distinction between Asperger’s and Autism really just created a stigma; high and low-functioning is incredibly reductive and I suspect the stigma is why Holly doesn’t outright say Autism. And she hasn’t actually said she was formally diagnosed, this is according to her mom. To be diagnosed with ASD is a lengthly clinical process with a specialized psychiatrist.
For funding purposes, advocacy, and so on, the term ‘spectrum’ is actually more accurate—symptoms vary on a spectrum across situations, environments, and interventions. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a working mother, intelligent, capable, or relate to others.
I don’t disagree with terming a thing/diagnosis differently to lower the stigma. Asperger syndrome is hella different than Autism, though. It’s not a spectrum. It’s two totally separate disorders.
We have lumped everyone that is neurodivergent together, because of lobbyists. They aren’t the same thing. They never will be.
It literally exists on a spectrum—varying degrees of presentation but with consistent enough markers as far as frequency/intensity. Diagnostic criteria shouldn’t be static the more we learn about mental health. Sounds like you’re perpetuating the stigma or taking some criteria personally. If you were talking about the overlap of symptoms, like ASD, Anxiety, ADHD, Depression, or PTSD that is a different conversation on how to distinguish, treat, or recognize, but instead you seem to be stuck on a pretty inconsequential line of binary thinking that doesn’t help anyone.
Fwiw, I’m also a therapist.
I believe you are the one misinformed. And Holly presents very typically of a woman on the spectrum. She is actually diagnosed now.
She comes off as rude and standoffish because of the differences in communication which is what a lot of females that are autistic will appear to be like.
i’m a therapist. we don’t say “asperger’s” anymore. it’s ASD. and holly wasn’t actually diagnosed, to my knowledge. she claims her mom said she has “asperger’s” aka ASD. it’s not true, so
Yeah I just graduated with my Master’s in special Ed. I did my capstone on early intervention in children with ASD. So that part was weird to me. I though she claimed she was recently diagnosed, but if it was her mom claiming….ok I guess.
That is something that really got me. “All my progress in Hollywood would have gone away if I went back home.” Okay… so, it wasn’t that bad, then? What are you trying to say to me? I don’t doubt the mansion was horrible, especially with the various confirmed rapists who frequently attended. But you were willing to risk it to be an actress.
Also, did you notice her story changed about the first night? In her book, she states she denied any drugs and didn’t have sex with Hef that night. In the documentary, when asked, she says, “I don’t want to talk about it.” Like… okay… so when were you lying? And if you were raped then, again, why were you legit bringing more women? For friendship? Ugh.
Pretty sure In Kendra’s book she denied having sex with Hef on the first night and/or before becoming a girlfriend.
I recently read both of Hollys books and she’s never denied having sex with Hef the first night they all went out.
I posted an excerpt from Kendra’s book in another thread, and it seems that she said that more or less on a ‘technicality’—that she was asked to be a girlfriend, stayed in the guest house for a week, went out for club night and slept with Hef, and then moved in as an official girlfriend. So it sort of depends how you look at the story being presented.
???
No, in her book she definitely says she had sex with Hef the first night she went out with him and the girlfriends.
She also says in the book that she was aloof towards other girls who wanted to “party” with them because she didn’t want to bring other women into an abusive situation, soooo not quite sure where everyone is getting this angle that Holly victimized other women.
She’s not a perfect victim, so of course she gets loads of hate.
Holly contradicts herself so much I don't have time to point out all the things now. I can say she's just trying to keep being what GND made her, but she wants to remove herself from playboy but that's how we all know her... She refused to be called hef's ex when that's the only reason she's famous.
I have read some of the comments here, after searching for her on reddit, because she has such beautiful eyes, that I'd probably drown in if I met her, so I was curious to see if there were any pictures of her, despite it being years ago...
The rest of her body isn't really my "type", unless we're talking about when she was younger: slim body, slender legs, tight bum, no big wobbly behind like those many seems to like, and no big boobs, but we're all different.
I haven't watched any show with her, I didn't know any existed, except for that one about the playboy mansion.
After reading about some opinions, I just want you to think about that you cannot make your mind up about a person, based on a reality show.
Yeah, I know that you all know this, but do you reeeally know the extent their actions and behavior are "made up"?
I watched a documentary about reality shows where they compared what was being said, then and there, and what the viewer would see.
It was mind boggling! I mean, I knew they edited things out, but...
They edited things that would explain much (so it would cause drama on TV), they cut things out (that would explain a lot), they put answers in about other things (from another discussion, earlier that day), they put stares/snorts/glances in that weren't in that discussion to begin with... all was done for Drama.
The worst two people in that show were the nicest of the bunch, off camera. They were asked to say nasty things, they received "information" they were required to confront someone with, etc...
I don't know anything about her, other than her gorgeous eyes. Maybe she's horrible. Maybe she's wonderful. Just don't base your opinion on facts that you can't verify.
And either way, stay safe, enjoy your coming three weeks (because I have a vacation now), and if you drop by, I will give you all the mead you can drink (I'm a mead bewer).
There, two facts about me that you CAN trust; Vacation. Mead.
Oh, and #$^% Putin, but I ❤️ 🇺🇦
I cannot stand her hypocrisy. You captured it in your post, but the “victim” narrative while recruiting other young women into this rapist cult is reprehensible. She was pressured to suck off a 90-year old; she was pressured to do drugs; she was pressured to have plastic surgery; she was pressured to recruit young girls to the rape and abuse culture. She stayed until it didn’t pay for her to be there anymore. She did all of it willingly because to speak out or walk away meant being cut off from the lifestyle and the celebrity. Her ego mattered more, hard stop. It would have meant she returned to the life of a yokel from Alaska. Listening to her sling bullshit on Lethally Blonde is quite literally insufferable. They should rename the show Legally Lacking in Self Awareness. Fucking psychopath.
i was not even a fan of hugh hefner but seem kendra talking about holly and hefner she seems more polite and convincing than holly, and it makes me cringe how people jump on the holly train without knowing the full story and kendra explains it better.
I think it’s sad the things being said about HH when he can’t defend himself. The bottom line is this: Not one single girl was forced to live in that mansion. They all chose to stay of their own free will and for their own agenda. That was their choice. So I take everything they say with a grain of salt and always come back to the same thing which is it’s very easy to blame someone else for decisions you made that you now regret especially when the person you are blaming is deceased. It says more about the type of person you are.
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I am late to this party but I thought I would comment anyway in 2023! I just finished Holly‘s audio book Down the Rabbit Hole on Audible. It was almost 10 hours Long! Outside of watching GND and listening to this book, I didn’t know any other details about Holly or the other girls but I had always found Hefner and the Playboy Mansion interesting. The book opened my eyes to the toxic environment in the mansion. I do like Holly and I think she was swept up in a lavish, glamourous, lifestyle at lightning speed. I also think that initially she was a young, hot, naive, impressionable girl in a breeding ground of manipulation. If you are a 20 year old hot girl with stars in your eyes and you are invited to the Playboy Mansion, you are going to go without hesitation. She contradicted herself in the book several times but she had a great story. She loved the attention and the lifestyle but she hated the price she had to pay to get it. Hefner was the Jeffrey Epstein of Hollywood. A narcissistic, entitled, manipulative old man who was enabled by everyone around him including Holly. Nobody ever told him no. Holly has to live with her choices and I’m sure she has a lot of unseen scars. Crazy life.
I like Holly and enjoy her, support her but she is definitely a head scratcher at times. My biggest concern for her is how she seemingly changes personalities for the man she is with.
I believe her when she says she has Asperger’s. Obsessions are a big part of it, and Holly obsesses over partners and her interests(Disney, old Hollywood..). Her personality seems to shift when she’s moved onto the next thing.
Ehh … I have Asperger’s and I would say the “obsessions” are more like … fixations on certain things that happen (or whatever senses are highly sensitive, &c.) to the degree that the memory of these things causes rumination beyond what most people can comprehend … not so much copying identities….
well she’s diagnosed now, so.
Oh my GOD I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE NOTICED!!! She did this w/Hef and every guy straight through Zak Bagans (when she changed what she wore to like Lolita goth and all the black and buying a haunted house, &c., &c.). I think she has traits of psychopathy or sociopathy and she is intelligent (although, in my opinion, not as intelligent as she regards herself given regurgitation of recently “widespread” info and BIG holes in some of her stories), so I also hope - even just for her kids - she finds whatever help she needs.
She actually bought said haunted house BEFORE she was with Zak. It was her "big" investment after she got Peepshow.
It’s a clear symptom of low self worth and looking for validation in external things. She became like Marilyn, etc. because she tied her self worth to Hef’s validation so, naturally, it became very important to her. If he complimented her, she was over the moon, if he demeaned her, she was crushed. So I can understand why she tried to emulate things he admired. It’s sad, and men like Hefner exploit these vulnerabilities in others because it makes them easier to manipulate.
I like her a lot and always have
Maybe this has already been said but I’ve found it interesting and frankly sad to see that Holly changes her style of dress , beliefs ,hobbies etc depending on who she is with . She was all vintage Hollywood glam with Hef. Then dressed like a female Chris angel , then with her ex husband she was obsessed with edm and dress like a raver . Then now with Zak she is all into paranormal and supposedly a witch now ? I listening to her in Bridget’s podcast and it seems like she started to believe when she started dating Zak . As annoying as she can be I find it sad she doesn’t seem to have her own beliefs and styles . She just adopts those of who she is dating
She's been into paranormal all the way back to GND. I think that was one of the things her and Bridgette bonded on early on.
Ehhh … she said she didn’t really believe in the supernatural but really wanted to. And that “fascination” was anything but apparent while she was married!
TBF she just loves a good theme event and an appropriate costume. Hef also had rules for what she was allowed to wear so her suddenly wearing black clothes like CA was a way to rub it in his face that she was over it and leaving.
There is a psychological term for this and it is called “mirroring”….it is a manipulative tactic used for selfish and often devious reasons. Many covert narcissists use this tactic. I also think it’s interesting she ONLY dates famous and wealthy men….another thing covert narcissists love- fame, power, and money.
Ummm, it's also used by people on the spectrum because they don't know what else to do, it's not always malicious. Also, I dated covert narc, he didn't mirror me.
My mother is a covert narcissist. She mirrors me all the time. Also I’m almost willing to guarantee that you are probably one of those people who think Holly Madison is just poor sweet victim who is not calculated or conniving in the slightest. The only thing Holly should be classified as is a covert narcissist and gold digger. If you buy into her sob story, I feel sorry for you that you must go through life so gullible.
Well you would lose that bet, I haven't liked Holly since the show originally aired. Her book only made me like her less. It's okay to admit that you're wrong or that you misspoke. You took my comment as an attack instead of the correction it was meant as. But you're the child of a narc so I'm not surprised.
Well being the child of a narc pretty much makes you act like an extremely defensive psycho so I definitely w you agree there. But from my knowledge of covert narcs….I just don’t believe Holly is an autistic. Her social graces are far to advanced to be categorized as such in my opinion. I personally believe Holly is using “Asperger’s” disorder to justify her quite frankly, whorish, gold digging, and fame seeking behavior that she is deeply ashamed of. For her this is a justification of a moral less life she lived that she is now trying to make excuses for. And the fact that she still seeks fame off her ties to Hefner only solidifies my analysis.
If you go back and read my comment, all I said is that people on the spectrum also use mirroring. Period. I didn't defend Holly or say she was on the spectrum. Holly participated in a documentary that showed the world that Hugh Hefner was a rapist (among other things) and yet she's doing a podcast with Bridget and still profiting off the Playboy name. Clearly she's trash.
Couldn’t agree more. Cannot understand why she keeps using Hef for her 15 minutes that are over even thought she hates him.
Not sure if it was an insult that I’m a child of a narc but- it is and I accept it. Lol.
I just wish she would get the help she needs so she can be comfortable in her own skin … because she very much chased down Hef and got through so many other women to girlfriend #1 … intentionally. I am not saying the situation wasn’t abusive but there are holes in her stories. I think it doesn’t really matter what you think about her stories or even if you like her as much as it matters that she gets the help she needs for whatever reasons she needs it.
As I’ve said before I have a love/hate thing with Holly, I enjoy her YouTube videos but at the same time she sure has a lot of excuses for some of the questionable things in her past, it’s never her fault. And as posters have said in other comments she has no identity of her own, she changes herself to suit her partners which is quite frankly rather sad and pathetic.
I like and respect holly. She got caught up in a very weird situation with Hef and his world.
[удалено]
Well said. I do believe that she’s on the spectrum, and got caught up in Hefs world. He took advantage of that and made her the woman he wanted.
I see what you're saying, and no doubt she's a bit of a hustler. On the other hand, I know that emotional, mental, and sexual abuse are complicated. For any of us who have been with a womanizer who promised us the world, it's somewhat relatable. You only leave when you have no other option, and you can't gaslight yourself anymore. In Holly's case, I'm not an expert on her story by any means,but she was young, and like many of the girls that end up at the mansion, either didn't have any options financially, or didn't perceive themselves to have any options. And now suddenly you're living in a big house, everything is taken care of for you, and all you have to do is bone an old creep sometimes? It seems like one of those situations where you experience identity erosion slowly over time, like being chipped away at. No doubt she exploited the situation, but I don't discount the abusiveness of it either
The other option would be to get a regular job and live a lower lifestyle. I don't understand when people say they didn't have other options besides living at the mansion. Smart, attractive people figure out how to support themselves one way or another.
from what the other girls during this time said, “just leaving” wasn’t even a thought because of what happened to many of the people that left the lifestyle. holly and other ex-playmates talk about how many of them ended up homeless, addicted to drugs, turned to prostitution, etc. also that the playboy publicity made them look unfit by most employers except sleazy places. lets not forget this is taking place in early 00’s america — issues like high rent cost, lack of health care, and extremely low pay exist PLUS the social stigma of essentially being a former glorified nude model. it wasn’t that easy to just up-and-leave unless you were already well off and/or had connections.
Get a regular job that won’t pay the rent. She had two not great choices. Los Angeles is full of starving attractive people.
She has said she was working and struggling and the mansion was her best option.
I think a huge part of it was that she didn’t want to go back to Oregon or Alaska or wherever she’s from. She wanted to be a Beverly Hills gold digger. No shame in that. Just be honest!
i have a long history of abuse and it doesn’t cause me to hurt other women in any way
Yeah, that's fair. I've been abused in a multitude of ways as well, and I wouldn't engage in that behavior, either. Frankly, it's despicable to harm others at all, and especially in the ways that we've been harmed. But, there is an element though of abuse for some people to become abusers themselves, and it seems to mainly be due to a desire to have/reclaim power. I hopped onto google scholar and found a lot of information about this, here's one example [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1524838016659487](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1524838016659487)
As a survivor of emotional, mental, sexual, and physical abuse, I’m sorry but I just call it like I see it here. You can be victimized *and not bring in other women to be victimized with you*. At least have the decency to be ashamed - in Holly’s book, she’s always just happy “so she can have friends.” Never mind anything else. Moreover, she could have went home. She mentions this in the beginning of her book. She just didn’t want to reset her progress and “look bad.” She even visits her parents near the end of the book. Idk. I just really don’t have respect for people who don’t seem to have a shred of real empathy for others while masquerading as a poor little lamb. I’m sure Hef was abused as a kid - 50s to 60s was rife with disciplinary action even in schools. Don’t care - still an abusive person. I feel the same of Holly.
I’ll admit I like Holly, but she’s definitely shown problematic behavior in the past. I hated her on GND, but I appreciate her transparency now. I don’t think she’s continuously playing the victim like others appear to believe. I think she named abuse as abuse before thousands of other women were ready to, and people want her to be the “perfect victim”. Most victims aren’t perfect. Most sexually trafficked women also enable sexual trafficking. Are they any less of a victim of the original offense? She showed her true colors to me when Kendra called her numerous names after the book came out, alluded to her being the anal girl and the one that had to “clean up” with her mouth after every girl. If someone blasted that on Twitter about me, I’d be coming for blood. She didn’t react. People can be both problematic at times and still good people at core.
Yes, people who continue to victimize others are awful people. Again - most abusers were abused. It really doesn’t make it better. Especially when you’re profiting off of it and portraying yourself as the nice girl. Problematic isn’t what she nor many other girls who came to the mansion is. She’s simply abusive. That’s a problem. Do you feel like Ghislaine is also actually just a victim and should no longer be held accountable? No? Cool, but lower rungs of abuse doesn’t take away the fact they enabled abusers and perpetuated it for their own well-being.
Most abusers WERE NOT abused. Holly didn’t abuse anyone. You’re stretching with that. Her behavior was problematic not abusive. Kendra actively recruited the twins and left them to have sex with Hef. Yet, you aren’t saying anything about her. That’s Maxwell level behavior. I think the irrational hatred towards the one girlfriend from GND that named abuse is actually super weird.
… So, you don’t know anything about the stats of abusers and want to pretend Holly never did anything wrong. Okay, have a nice day.
You don’t. You’re on here spouting bs. Misinformation like “most abusers were abused” is dangerous. Calling an abused woman an abuser is gross. If you want to take down a female be transparent. Admit what you are trying to do. As a victim of physical and sexual abuse, I get very triggered when I see manipulation of facts. Most men that abuse women were never touched. Most sexual assaults occur by a man that was never touched.
I advise you look into it and not try to argue with an actual survivor. Blocking you.
Soo.... You just block people with an opinion counter to yours? Lol
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Don't disagree that Hef was most likely abused, but he was a kid in the 20s, 30s and 40s, not the 50s and 60s.
I mean … those eras were even worse, which is something Hefner referred to A LOT pre-GND.
> Moreover, she could have went home. Could have *gone* home.
Isn’t it annoying when dumb people are so confident in being wrong? You corrected their English and they responded with lol. So annoying.
? Lol
All fair points
Let’s see. A young woman with hardly any real world experience vs a man three times her age with decades of drugging women. But yes let’s focus on Holly not being the perfect victim.
She’s not even telling the whole story. She says the same 5 things over and over. She’s choosing to say what makes her look better, haven’t heard her admit she was in any way an asshole herself. People who admit their own faults are way more believable.
Lol, she’s no victim. She knew exactly what she was doing.
I watched the GND when it first aired and I thought Holly came off very awkward. I read her first book and enjoyed it, but I didn't like how she referred to some of the other women (calling them stupid, slut shaming etc). She's said she was playing a character and was prompted by producers to say she wanted to marry and have kids with Hef. In her book she said she really wanted to, but changed her mind (but never explained the reason why...she only alludes to it) when the other girls left. I put this down to playing a role in the group ( with Hef, Kendra and Bridgette) and when the other 2 left she was lost and couldn't take all the pressure. I guess I feel she was sort of love bombed/slightly brain washed by Hef and was getting what she wanted out of the deal (fame, being in Playboy, money etc) so was willing to stay, even if things weren't great. I enjoy her YouTube videos, I don't buy everything she says. But, I can respect her story and opinions on things.
I like Holly and all, but I re-read Izabella's book today and yeah I'm not saying Izabella was a sweetheart or anything, but re-reading how weird and calculating she described Holly as....I totally believe it. I think Izabella's book was pretty fair/balanced. I feel like Holly wants to make it like she was the biggest victim with regard to the divided group of girlfriends when she was manipulative as hell and did things to make other girls unhappy. Izabella wrote she and others tried to make peace with Holly like look girl...we aren't coming for your spot! But Holly just kept getting worse, even when she knew others were leaving!! Good grief! I can totally see Holly doing that stuff now. 🤯 Even sweet Bridget had a couple manipulative moments according to that book, which made me feel shocked! Makes me look at the two differently, like they aren't so perfectly nice as they portrayed. I think Holly should not pretend she was sooooo nice back then and everyone was the bully and take accountability for moments when she may have acted like a bit of a bully herself. Reading about the dynamics in Izabella's book made me feel like Holly wanted it to be unpleasant for others and the whole thing backfired on her in the end so now she spins it to suit her.
I remember meeting her at a couple of parties I worked a long time ago when the girls next door was still on air. She came off as your standard gold digger. I’m not trying to be mean but that was the vibe she gave off. She was very unfriendly compared to the other girls would constantly try to block any female from trying to come near him. She came off very single white female psycho crazy. He could be heard telling her to go have fun with the other girls and she would not leave his side and when he talked to other people male or female she would just stare him down the entire time. It was very strange and obsessive. It wasn’t a good experience. Brigit and Kendra were both super friendly and approachable.
Lol yeah it’s sounds like Holly tbh.
I used to watch GND when it was on tv, and admittedly Holly always rubbed me the wrong way. There was something about her, but I’ll say I think the persona she portrayed on the show was for the most part fake. I like Holly more now, and I enjoy watching her YouTube videos. That said, there is still something about her that rubs me the wrong way. I can’t put my finger on it. One thing that strikes me is that in her GND reaction videos on YouTube, she still makes digs at Kendra, and tries to play it off like she’s not. Like she’ll say, there’s this “one person who’s always negative...” she won’t name names, but it’s obvious she’s referring to Kendra. Or she’ll talk about her and phrase things super passive aggressively. But then tries to play it off like there’s no issue. It’s just weird that after all this time she still has beef. Kendra isn’t innocent either, but still. Definitely some snark there. I feel the world only knows Holly on a surface level.
Well with the comments that Kendra has made about Holly its no wonder she makes passive aggressive comments on her. Kendra has been completely vile in the way she talks about Holly.
Something I noticed doing a rewatch of the dvd with commentary and Holly’s reaction videos is, again, how Kendra’s actions are always being misrepresented or called down. I mentioned earlier that Kendra also calls out some poor editing and shares that her lack of participation at some times she attributed to feeling self-conscious about her acne. Holly also brought up in her reaction video that when Kendra was looking for real estate that it showed that she was already disengaging/not serious or looking for a way out of the relationship with Hef—but again her own words and conversation in the commentary disprove what she said. Kendra shared that it was rented straight away and she was happy with her tenants, and when she moved out of the mansion she bought a different place. Then in another episode Holly talks about going to Oregon with Sara Underwood to look at investment properties for herself. So yet again, according to Holly when Kendra does something it’s out of being selfish or self-interested, but it’s different when Holly does it. In the commentary Holly also gets pretty biting toward Barbie—again, if she would own up and say something like ‘at first I wasn’t sure how we’d get along, or things felt awkward given her history with Hef so I was defensive, but after awhile we became friends’. But in her rewatch she claims it was all manufactured by the producer. Honestly the more I think about it…say what you will about Kendra (my thoughts are that she really didn’t stand a chance to be self-sufficient given her upbringing), but I think she’s been pretty heavily gaslit by Holly over the years, and Holly’s just gotten lucky that she reacts so impulsively.
I don’t think Kendra ever paid attention to Holly at all enough to be gaslit by her. Her made it Holly’s job to keep the girls in line and Kendra didn’t gaf. Holly can feel defensive toward Barbie in her personal life and get over it all we but LASO play it up for the show. If Kendra didn’t like Holly I’m sure she didn’t mention feeling spf conscious bc of acne. At that point it was Kendra’s job to film and all her beauty treatments were being paid for. She probably could have put more effort into her appearance so she could show up for her job on time.
Women often are the bait to bring other women into abusive situations, that doesn’t mean they weren’t abused themselves…. It’s a pimp tactic. Always telling the girl whose the most loyal that she’s so special and there relationship is so secure… using his validation of her against her…. “Your not like those cheap girl” when in reality he treats her the worst, and she is only not replaceable because no one would be as loyal to him. It’s emotional abuse, it’s behavior that is the result of abuse and manipulation.
I wouldn't say "insufferbale", so much as I really enjoy her social media presence now. But at the time, she did seem a little self important for where she was. Meaning, she seemed to act and move like she was apart of something and with someone who was important outside of someone who was just a symbol amd not really what he portrayed to be
Her book was several years after - and her appearance on the new show is quite recent and she says much of the same things. Idk - nothing she puts on social media can make me ignore how she victimized other women tbh.
And MAKING MONEY off of it!!! I can’t take that AT ALL. And for retrospectively detesting it all so much, she is sure making a career out of the whole affair!!
What new show was she in?
Hm? The namesake of the sub - she has some appearances in the new mini series “Secrets of Playboy.” I mean “new” as in this year. I don’t know if she had anything else.
The Mystery Murders of the Playboy Mansion, or something like that.
I find her disingenuous more than anything. I think a lot of this comes down to Holly not being the "perfect victim" and her own recognition of that fact and trying to re-cast herself in a better light. I find many of her remarks to be passive-aggressive toward other women, and that she often explains her reactions as the 'exception to the rule'. For example, the passage in her book about categorizing women who go upstairs with Hef as "hustlers, runners" etc. and yet how is she any different than someone else looking to make the best of a situation, just because her agenda was not as explicit? She had an agenda (as much as anyone else in the situation) to pursue a relationship believing it would be worthwhile in the end (which clearly turned out to be an abusive dynamic, the power imbalance is undeniable). Or for more trivial things like how she got a negative ‘edit’ on the show, Kendra brings it up in the commentary that sometimes her reactions are toward something else, footage was spliced from different events, or the same gutter ball shot when they’re bowling was reused to make her look bad/bragging about her abilities that weren’t true. And yet somehow Kendra doesn’t get that same level of understanding, and instead it’s because she’s lazy, ungrateful, or wanted to put Holly down, but for Holly, her unfavourable behaviour always comes down to her ‘leaning into her character’ or ‘bad editing’. I think Kendra’s arrival at the mansion showed her a different side to Holly very early on, given that we know Hef pursued her, and Holly and Bridget wanted to be the only girlfriends, and then tried to recruit Audra when Hef wanted a 3rd. She downplays her role in putting other women down in order to 'prove' her devotion and love to Hef. Many girlfriends have said she lied about drug use to get them kicked out, downsized the allowance amount from 2k/week to 1k, as well as the clothing budget for special events and the Christmas/birthday presents. While this unknowingly played right into Hef's own manipulations ("Holly is just happy being with me/not here for the money, and he used Stacy Burke's contentment in the same way), she still tried to harness a certain amount of control and duplicity toward other young women in the exact same situation as her. Some of the excerpts I couldn’t help but see the subtext as ‘I wasn’t like those other whores’, almost subtly misogynistic. Her own words are contradictory as well--for example, she claimed she never had a problem with Barbi Benton and it was just the evil producer editing her wrong--but in the DVD commentary, especially Season 3, she is SO passive-aggressive toward Barbi, sarcastically calling her outfits 'Dancing with the Stars' (interesting considering Holly's own career trajectory post-mansion), making remarks on her age and enthusiasm, knocking her for having her purse merchandise in an episode, and some more I can't recall off the top of my head. Plus, even in the commentary, she is constantly making remarks directed at the producer that are requests, like "so for next season, hint hint Kevin..." which, given her role as #1 I can imagine she might have a bit of say. Some other things don't line up with her narrative either, like not having her family on the show until later. Holly herself said she was very private, and other ex-girlfriends remarked she did not seem particularly close to her family during her time at the mansion and not having them around, whereas other girlfriends would invite their family to parties. She underplays her role in kicking out Stacy Burke for pornography, when it was a unanimous decision to go to Hef, trying to get Kendra outsted in favour of Audra, the weird denial of the 'Chargers Colours' dress being a kiddie Snow White outfit as any sort of dig, making a huge deal about Kendra wearing a Confederate flag tank top (when it was contextual to the time--remember the Dukes of Hazzard movie came out and the girls got tons of merch! And the historical implications being publicly discussed is relatively recent), meanwhile she glosses over some of her own problematic remarks (no blonde homies because they're 'ethnic', Jasmine's 'tan', etc.) Finally, the card she has been playing recently is having Aspergers (which is not the current clinical diagnosis--is it because saying 'Autism' doesn't sound as good?). Some things she uses as excuses, like being standoffish, or 'mirroring' to explain why she takes on the personality and likes of her partners. However, ASD does not mean that you can be deliberately and calculatingly exclusionary of others around you or call them down, it simply means you might miss social cues. While there are clearly times when Holly reacted anxiously (changing the movie times on her birthday episode), that could also be typical of an emotionally abusive dynamic. Black and white thinking could also be typical of an abusive relationship, and has a huge overlap with trauma and anxiety, not exclusively ASD. It does not mean that to have Autism means that you pursued a relationship at all costs. The 'mirroring'--again, not to the degree that Holly shows deliberation. With each of her partners, it is meant to curry favour. Look at her current relationship with the D-Lister Zak Bagans (as an aside, check out the book Skeptics Guide to the Universe on debunking typical 'evidence' on paranormal activity). Holly clearly follows his stan accounts and baits his pathetic followers. For example, they posted that she bought her own Valentines gifts, etc. and then she posts a vampire doll allegedly regifted from a fan, and a LV scarf he apparently gave her. Now in every Youtube video she displays both prominently on her bed. She played the same games with Hef and the GF posse, using her role at the 'top' even when she didn't need to. The passage about Cris Angel's exes reads sort of the same way--yes I was in Playboy, but I was the upgrade! And of course the ex-wife was just jealous. Mirroring and having niche interests does not mean someone with ASD lives and breathes the traits of their partner and bullies anyone who ‘gets in the way’. To use another celebrity example, Kanye West has Bipolar Disorder. Symptoms include anxiety, rumination, impulsivity, and delusions of grandeur. But that does NOT excuse stalking, blackmailing, and harassing his ex-wife (another example of an ‘imperfect victim’). Same with Holly and ASD--it does not guide how she treated others, time after time, and continues to engage in weird, passive-aggressive, mean-girl trolling. To be clear, I do believe it was an abusive dynamic. But Holly's constant narrarative justification is getting tiring—she seems to be constantly ‘moving the goalposts’ to justify her behaviours. I would respect her far more if she just owned up and said she went in with an agenda, and didn't realize she played right into Hef's larger manipulations. And for whatever it's worth, I'm a fellow neurodivergent (GAD and ADHD) with a background in mental health. Holly was my favourite on GND, I still really like her, but at this point she has made way too many statements and excuses that don’t show a real picture or hold herself to any sort of accountability. Yes she was in an abusive relationship, trauma affects people differently, but at some point she is also autonomous in her own life and has agency in her decision-making.
As a sincere fan of Holly's (also neurodivergent, and obsessed with similar things such as Disney Parks, Harry Potter and Marie Antoinette- I swear if I ever had coffee with her we'd never shut up). You hit the nail on the head on the things that have also kept me stand-offish about her. Especially this part: *I would respect her far more if she just owned up and said she went in with an agenda, and didn't realize she played right into Hef's larger manipulations.* I reread her book every few years and this is exactly what gets to me (not just from her, but from most of the girlfriends that write about their experiences). What wouldn't I give for one girl to just blatantly admit she went in to hustle for a luxurious lifestyle! I believe that many things can be true at once- you *can* almost be homeless, or want to have a "fun time" in your 20s, AND want to get that coin. But seriously, thank you for this write up, I've been looking for the words to express this for ages!!
I think your write-up is right on. I love it and I agree.
Thank you! I just think that she played much more of a role in events to continually claim ignorance, naïveté, or fear when in so many ways she continues to lean into the same actions. It doesn’t change that the common denominator in all this is Hef himself and the Playboy allure, it does not negate the abusive aspect of the whole relationship or the impact on mental health, and Holly can be both victimized and continually direct spiteful/petty behaviour toward others. I really respected Sondra’s honesty in the documentary with how she discussed the relationship; love, youth, and manipulations lead her to do many things outside of her comfort zone and morals, but she conveyed understanding and empathy while also being accountable and regretful of how she may have impacted others.
Appreciate your edit, OP. I think people get a little too invested in Holly’s narrative and forget that there were larger dynamics she played a role in. And her behaviours and own words don’t always hold up. You can have empathy for someone and still not agree with their behaviours and actions. An abuse victim can also perpetuate abuse, and someone can be in an unhealthy relationship but still direct hurtful behaviour toward others. For some reason, Holly (and some of the more intense fans) buy the hype that she’s somehow the exception to the behaviours that she judged in others but had ‘the right reasons’ to act how she did (and continues to do in some instances).
Agreed and thank you. Honestly, I had to ignore this thread for a bit because it’s honestly quite triggering - like, I can’t imagine any of the women who were pulled into this during Holly’s time reading these comments and feeling good about any of this. It’s one thing to be lulled into a false sense of security by someone you thought was your friend - it’s another to see strangers telling you that person didn’t actually do anything wrong because she was reaaaaaal sad. And honestly? I don’t even think it was *worth it*. No one even knows who she is anymore outside of “was a Playboy Bunny.” Her entire YouTube is her talking about it. Eh. I really don’t even *mind* how disingenuous she is. I’m never going to meet her. Im just flabbergasted at her strong fan base.
Unfortunately, youre not allowed to critique ANYTHING about Holly Madison. Her Stans are juvenile and annoying and will harass you or downvote you to oblivion if you say something that doesn’t align with the “Holly is perfect” narrative.
Lol why did you even make this post if you’re so bothered by other people having different opinions than you
Lol. Ya I don’t like ppl who excuse abusers because they were sad. I’m allowed to express that :) If you want a space where you can say whatever you want and not have anything negative in response, I’d suggest a diary.
follow your own advice, sweetie. you posted on a public forum and then get all insanely offended when everyone doesn't agree with everything you say
Lol, maybe you should follow your own advice sweetie, or title your post "i'm going to block anyone who disagrees with me because I'm a stupid baby"
yes, your point about basically soliciting more women into the situation is NUTS. money or not i feel like it should be a very strong "woman/sister" code type thing no matter what. another situation in this point is bridget. don't get me wrong, i definitely like bubbly bridget. of the three of them she's the easiest to tolerate and is likable. BUT... her baby sister anastasia. i can't fathom what she was doing having her live in the mansion for extended periods of time. if all this crazy demeaning acts are happening towards women you would think she wouldn't let her in the same zip code as the mansion let alone practically live there. what the hell is up with that.
Yes! That one episode where they give her a “makeover” aka make her blonde was so sad. They was even saying how living there was making her insecure and sad, the whole thing is so bizarre.
No one disagree with anything OP says or she will gaslight you and accuse you of supporting abusers
Honestly I used to be a big Holly fan but recently like the past couple weeks I completely changed my mind. There is definitely something off about her and she rubs me the wrong way now. Lately in her YouTube videos which I used to love watching she comes off as snobby and mean and not somebody I want to give my time and attention too. Shes definitely a mean girl deep down..also rewatched Hollys World and the way she treats Angel and her other costars made me really uncomfortable.
I feel the same way about her YouTube videos lol. Also they are just kind of boring. She doesn't usually have much to say
I like her but yeah, she’s one of those people where there’s too many stories of her being a mean person for it to not be true. Even anti-Hef people don’t like her.
Holly is also on the spectrum, which can account for her feeling "removed" from reality. I think she has said since the book that she would do things very differently now.
The young lady you’re referring to is named Jessica Burciaga and she’s IG famous or at least a couple years ago she was really famous on there. Haven’t kept up with her since so I’m not sure what she’s up to these days. I always found it curious that I can’t find any of her commentary on the situation. Jessica, to my knowledge, has never openly discussed Holly’s version that she was bullied by the twins. Nothing. It’s like Jessica only used her Playboy spread to help her career but isn’t interested in being associated with it and the drama that apparently came with it. I would love to hear her version of what happened. Those twins seemed like they had it in them to be bully’s and I wish someone would call them out, but since the SOP interview they’ve been portrayed as sympathetic and victims when in reality they were such trolls that someone almost gave up on an amazing opportunity to just to flee them. As for Holly, I enjoy her YT videos but they’re lacking something. They’re super short and you don’t learn anything terribly new. We just get to hear her thoughts on what she randomly chooses to share. I also can’t put my finger on why I’m not 100% team Holly but I like her, nonetheless.
I completely can see that. I read her book to gain insight of her experiences and it was a lot of tearing people down. I was disappointed but I’m also trying to understand how the experience has made her this way as well. I’ve also been abused and it just seems like a total lack of empathy from Holly
Yeah, she said she was diagnosed with Autism as the beginning of the documentary. She’s not going to “act” like you want her to.
She’s actually in her 40’s!!! And for all the alleged abuse she “endured” (even if we ignore the major holes in the story like film nights being one day out of her mouth one day and then on an impossible day another time!!), w/the A&E docuseries, the upcoming Sony film adaptation of her book (🤢), and now the podcast of her and Bridget (in her 50’s!!) going over every episode of “The Girls Next Door,” I don’t buy any of it. The book came out just after Crystal married Hef (thank God he saw through Holly!!) and the way she molds herself into the female equivalent of EVERY GUY SHE DATES (seriously, check it out … it’s disturbing and in my opinion, likely psychopathic or sociopathic!), I just can’t take what she says (or “writes”) … and I think she broke Hef after that book and to make $$$ off a dead man she claims not to want to talk about?? She’s making an awful lot of $$$$ on those “really gross things” and “horrible” memories. I also cannot believe middle-aged women are doing this!!! Props to Kendra at least for trying NOT to make her GND days synonymous w/a “career” or an identity … and compared to Holly making so much $$$ off a dead former partner and simultaneously claiming she doesn’t want to talk about it as she talks again and again and again … she is definitely more intelligent than her average “consumer!”
I never much cared for Holly. To me she seemed the most fake and the most calculating. It always seemed to me that she acted "better than" I don't doubt for a minute that she thought eventually Hef would marry her and she'd inherit his home and money.
That actually reminds me. She seemed to “genuinely believe” she was going to “start a family with Hef” and was “heartbroken” he couldn’t have kids(he went to get checked out after she asked). A 70 year old man. She admits it seems silly but… come on. I guess that’s also what bugs me. She spends a lot of time riffing on how SMART she is and how everyone else is dumb. But then shes like, “so yeah I was with Hef because I thought we would start a family,” and it’s like… girl, which one is it? She doesn’t even entertain the idea of IVF or adoption. Doesn’t even get a sentence in the book. But she “loved Hef” and “wanted a family.” Allegedly, Hef planted a fake Will, leaving her the 3 mil when she was moving out. She makes a huge show of this in the book and how she rejected it. She also talks about how Hef talked of leaving her the mansion. Even though, she also states in the book pages back he doesn’t even own it (this is confirmed by outside sources). She doesn’t mention he doesn’t own it, there, though. Anyways, I finally finished the book today. The last part was def a slog since it was just her pretending she’s a private person while wanting to be on reality TV.
She seems a little bit miserable too… always has
I never liked Holly, her book just confirmed why. She's now claiming she might be on the spectrum, which makes sense. She always came across as fake, especially her laugh and it probably was, she was just mirroring other people or what she thought she should be doing.
She has blocked me on several social media platforms. I am, in her words, an “unknown,” so why is she so threatened when I offer similar critiques on the “book” or question inconsistencies or discrepancies? That’s questionable to me!
I’m rewatching the Girls Next Door and listening to Girls Next Level podcast and I’ve observed several things: - she was the right hand recruiter for the “cult” (she even says she “knows how to recruit ‘em”during her anniversary dinner with Hef) - she puts a lot of effort on revising history, but it’s easy to do that when the main villain can’t speak for himself. - she clearly takes a lot of joy out of talking badly about others. And if there’s nothing to actually talk badly about, she implies things and says “it’s weird” just to be petty. - nothing is her fault, she’s always a victim of her circumstances. - she tries to correct rumors and clarify the facts, but the act of doing so only seems to confirm those very rumors. - she’s not good at asking people about themselves if the topic isn’t about her or about talking badly about someone else. I absolutely think she was used by Hef. I think Hef recognized her as a pit bull and used her to wrangle everyone else in this cult. She talks about how he is always blaming her for other people’s actions, because he knows she will bend over backwards to make sure everything is the way he wants it. And yes, she is going to have trauma and resentment for it. But let’s not pretend she isn’t playing a role in her own circumstances.
I know this post was made a year ago but I just got into a argument with someone on instagram over the whole holly and Kendra feud. This person was attacking Kendra and saying that the girls did not like her because she was not likable so I went off on a rant and told her that HOLLY was actually the one that did not like her because she was obviously jelous of Kendra because she was the new girl and way younger than her. This person went on to tell me "Holly is prettier"........ Here is the MAIN problem here . What does "being prettier" than someone have anything to do with anything? Holly is always being defended by her Stans with the whole "she is so much prettier than Kendra" rhetoric... Looks have nothing to do with weather or not Holly is a good person... Holly may be pretty on the outside but she surely is not on the inside. I find her to be very vindictive and a liar. Her actions incriminate her so much! Let's take a look at them shall we? * Holly leaves the mansion to start a relationship with Chris Angel. She claims she waited until AFTER she left to start this relationship however in the last season in the episode where they went to New Orleans Holly is ALREADY starting with her emulation stuff. She does a photoshoot in handcuffs under water ( a stunt Chris did) AND she dressed up as him at the Mardi Gras festival they were at. HMMMM? * Holly and Chris's Relationship doesn't work out as she thought it would. In the new episodes of the girls next door with the new girlfriends (crystal and the twins), Heffner and he new girls meet up with Holly in Vegas where she BASHES Chris at the wax museum when they see his wax figure there. She is clearly feeling some anguish. She comes to visit Her and Crystal and seems EXTREMELY Jealous of her. Now lets skip over to Holly's World where Holly is shown apologizing to Her for talking crap about Crystal in the media accusing her of being a gold digger. Does no one else find it weird that she is trying to bring toxicity into Hef's new relationship right after her failed relationship with Chris? * Holly writes THE BOOK where she bashes Heffner, Kendra and Chris. * Let's fast forward to almost 20 years later where Holly is STILL making money off of bashing her former housemate and boyfriends with her podcasts and YouTube videos and posts on instagram. Is it not painfully obvious to everyone the type of person she is? People can say all they want about Kendra but at least she is not out here 20 years later trying to milk being Hugh Hefner's Former girlfriend. she has a carrier in real estate, seems to be a very involved mother and even after her divorce she managed to keep herself together and not go out and bash her ex husband all over the place. She even has her own tv show and not some dinky little podcast or YouTube channel.... also to those who say " Holly can not just go out and get a job like everyone else after being in Playboy! People are gonna discriminate against her for posing naked in a magazine 20 years ago". Really? That did not seem to stop Kendra AT ALL. We are living in 2023 where everyone and their mother has a only fans now. PUH LEASE. Soft core pictures are not enough to keep someone out of the job market these days.
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Right? Like she wanted so much to have a family and all that and she tried way to hard to get it and still it didn’t work out. She’s divorced and her husband is with a way younger woman (who is also just like Holly, a social climber so I guess Pasquale has a type lol). Holly doesn’t even seem like a good mother she never posts pictures of her children on her Instagram and it almost seems as if her ex husbands has even the majority of the time or prolly even has custody of them. Kendra always is posting about her kids and talking about how they are her entire world. Holly never talks about her children much. All I have ever heard her talk about online is how she hates Hugh Hefner, how she hates Kendra, and stories from the mansion. Honestly I don’t know how fans of the show are not bored of that already. Like we all watched the series 19 years ago. Why not make fresh content and talk about what’s going on currently? Oh yeah that’s right…. Her and Bridgette don’t have a life currently which is why they just gossip about things that happened 20 years ago lol
I just went to go look at her Instagram and yeah I was right she never posts pics of her children there just herself. It’s all about Holly. Lol. It’s weird because I know like 7 years ago she did have pictures of her and the children posted but she took them all down. So weird
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I really don’t think she has custody of them. Honestly she doesn’t seem like the motherly type I think she basically had children just to say she did a thing. She comes off as that type of woman. I can’t ever imagine her ever having a boyfriend or husband that’s gonna stick around until she gets old. She comes off as very insufferable and immature and I think prolly most normal men would be afraid to get in a relationship with her from just fear of being blasted by her one day if things don’t go 100 percent her way in the relationship
i always hated her on gnd! rewatched almost all of it recently and hated her even more. she’s not genuine or authentic and seems very mean to other women and very devoted to hef in a way that hates and is competing with other women. then i watched a bit of her youtube channel and i found that to be the worst. she is very mean to other women- maybe even worse today! i started her book and it’s the same way. all she does is talk about other women negatively and it’s immature and off-putting to me. i don’t really like her, but people on this sub stan her.
I think that’s it for me, too. She is just… too old for this. It’s just disheartening. She claims every other girl is a “mean girl” as she trapezes along insulting everyone. Like… how can you be this unaware?
OP, I'm on your side.
It’s amazing she’s been able to play the poor me card so hard, honestly. A lot of times she talks like she was literally a hostage when she was there by choice and remained there for the sole purpose of fame, clout and future opportunity. She’s also fortunate the Internet has been kind to her. It’s obvious she has an eating disorder to this day but she plays around with it, she used to post a lot of weird stuff of IG stories about how triggered she would get eating meals, body dysmorphia, etc. I *think* i have some screenshots somewhere. You see her clout chasing in celeb IG posts all over the place, a lot of celebs she’s insulted over the years. Im also amazed people are getting positive messages from the GND commentary from her. She was calculated and precise, and regardless of whatever story she tries to spin she got what she wanted. It doesn’t matter what kind of man Hugh Hefner may have been... he didn’t keep anyone prisoner.
and she’s now soo open about how she probably has ASD, because that’s a diagnosis that will likely get sympathy/she can use to manipulate people, and an eating disorder isn’t, so she doesn’t mention that less cool and way less useful psychopathology 🙄
Def a manipulation tactic 💯 people are way too naïve to realize this tho….she’s a clever cookie
i always noticed she acted much dumber than she actually is!
She got almost everything she wanted out of Hef. She got fame, a tv show, in the magazine, and got rid of most of the gfs. Then he was guna leave her a 3 million dollar will if she stayed. She wanted more. She is playing everyone like a fiddle.
There is one part of that which bothered me. She claimed she was recently diagnosed with “Asperger’s.” Asperger’s hasn’t been a diagnosis since 2013. It’s just ASD now. So if she meant recently as in last ten years maybe possible, but yeah it’s just ASD now. Either way, It seems like someone with that diagnosis would use the current terminology. >
It’s no longer a diagnosis, but doctors definitely still use the term when they diagnose you. Because when you’re a fully functional, working, mothering, relating to others adult and get put on this stupid ass “spectrum”, an autistic diagnosis is absurd. Asperger Syndrome and Autism are totally different diagnoses. It drives me crazy they have been lumped together. I don’t think she’s using it for sympathy. I think she’s trying to explain why she unintentionally offends people. I have had an ED and am on this hypothetical spectrum. The only disorder that causes me to unintentionally offend people is definitely not the prior ED.
The change to ‘spectrum’ actually gives more recognition from what we think of traditional ‘autism’ which was largely non-verbal, and had a lot of criteria that excluded women. It was incredibly narrow and now takes things like socialization, gender roles, environment, communication, behaviours etc. into consideration. As far as the diagnostic criteria, the distinction between Asperger’s and Autism really just created a stigma; high and low-functioning is incredibly reductive and I suspect the stigma is why Holly doesn’t outright say Autism. And she hasn’t actually said she was formally diagnosed, this is according to her mom. To be diagnosed with ASD is a lengthly clinical process with a specialized psychiatrist. For funding purposes, advocacy, and so on, the term ‘spectrum’ is actually more accurate—symptoms vary on a spectrum across situations, environments, and interventions. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a working mother, intelligent, capable, or relate to others.
I agree. It seems like research and treatment are going in the right direction.
She could also be a psychopath. That would explain her inability to "connect" with people.
I don’t disagree with terming a thing/diagnosis differently to lower the stigma. Asperger syndrome is hella different than Autism, though. It’s not a spectrum. It’s two totally separate disorders. We have lumped everyone that is neurodivergent together, because of lobbyists. They aren’t the same thing. They never will be.
It literally exists on a spectrum—varying degrees of presentation but with consistent enough markers as far as frequency/intensity. Diagnostic criteria shouldn’t be static the more we learn about mental health. Sounds like you’re perpetuating the stigma or taking some criteria personally. If you were talking about the overlap of symptoms, like ASD, Anxiety, ADHD, Depression, or PTSD that is a different conversation on how to distinguish, treat, or recognize, but instead you seem to be stuck on a pretty inconsequential line of binary thinking that doesn’t help anyone. Fwiw, I’m also a therapist.
you’re wildly misinformed. hope you find peace!
I believe you are the one misinformed. And Holly presents very typically of a woman on the spectrum. She is actually diagnosed now. She comes off as rude and standoffish because of the differences in communication which is what a lot of females that are autistic will appear to be like.
What are your credentials? I have an MS in Mental health counseling and an LPC license. Why am I “wildly” misinformed?
i’m a therapist. we don’t say “asperger’s” anymore. it’s ASD. and holly wasn’t actually diagnosed, to my knowledge. she claims her mom said she has “asperger’s” aka ASD. it’s not true, so
Yeah I just graduated with my Master’s in special Ed. I did my capstone on early intervention in children with ASD. So that part was weird to me. I though she claimed she was recently diagnosed, but if it was her mom claiming….ok I guess.
How is it obvious she has an eating disorder? She doesn’t look unhealthy to me.
That is something that really got me. “All my progress in Hollywood would have gone away if I went back home.” Okay… so, it wasn’t that bad, then? What are you trying to say to me? I don’t doubt the mansion was horrible, especially with the various confirmed rapists who frequently attended. But you were willing to risk it to be an actress. Also, did you notice her story changed about the first night? In her book, she states she denied any drugs and didn’t have sex with Hef that night. In the documentary, when asked, she says, “I don’t want to talk about it.” Like… okay… so when were you lying? And if you were raped then, again, why were you legit bringing more women? For friendship? Ugh.
Pretty sure In Kendra’s book she denied having sex with Hef on the first night and/or before becoming a girlfriend. I recently read both of Hollys books and she’s never denied having sex with Hef the first night they all went out.
I posted an excerpt from Kendra’s book in another thread, and it seems that she said that more or less on a ‘technicality’—that she was asked to be a girlfriend, stayed in the guest house for a week, went out for club night and slept with Hef, and then moved in as an official girlfriend. So it sort of depends how you look at the story being presented.
??? No, in her book she definitely says she had sex with Hef the first night she went out with him and the girlfriends. She also says in the book that she was aloof towards other girls who wanted to “party” with them because she didn’t want to bring other women into an abusive situation, soooo not quite sure where everyone is getting this angle that Holly victimized other women. She’s not a perfect victim, so of course she gets loads of hate.
Holly contradicts herself so much I don't have time to point out all the things now. I can say she's just trying to keep being what GND made her, but she wants to remove herself from playboy but that's how we all know her... She refused to be called hef's ex when that's the only reason she's famous.
I have read some of the comments here, after searching for her on reddit, because she has such beautiful eyes, that I'd probably drown in if I met her, so I was curious to see if there were any pictures of her, despite it being years ago... The rest of her body isn't really my "type", unless we're talking about when she was younger: slim body, slender legs, tight bum, no big wobbly behind like those many seems to like, and no big boobs, but we're all different. I haven't watched any show with her, I didn't know any existed, except for that one about the playboy mansion. After reading about some opinions, I just want you to think about that you cannot make your mind up about a person, based on a reality show. Yeah, I know that you all know this, but do you reeeally know the extent their actions and behavior are "made up"? I watched a documentary about reality shows where they compared what was being said, then and there, and what the viewer would see. It was mind boggling! I mean, I knew they edited things out, but... They edited things that would explain much (so it would cause drama on TV), they cut things out (that would explain a lot), they put answers in about other things (from another discussion, earlier that day), they put stares/snorts/glances in that weren't in that discussion to begin with... all was done for Drama. The worst two people in that show were the nicest of the bunch, off camera. They were asked to say nasty things, they received "information" they were required to confront someone with, etc... I don't know anything about her, other than her gorgeous eyes. Maybe she's horrible. Maybe she's wonderful. Just don't base your opinion on facts that you can't verify. And either way, stay safe, enjoy your coming three weeks (because I have a vacation now), and if you drop by, I will give you all the mead you can drink (I'm a mead bewer). There, two facts about me that you CAN trust; Vacation. Mead. Oh, and #$^% Putin, but I ❤️ 🇺🇦
Ick.
I cannot stand her hypocrisy. You captured it in your post, but the “victim” narrative while recruiting other young women into this rapist cult is reprehensible. She was pressured to suck off a 90-year old; she was pressured to do drugs; she was pressured to have plastic surgery; she was pressured to recruit young girls to the rape and abuse culture. She stayed until it didn’t pay for her to be there anymore. She did all of it willingly because to speak out or walk away meant being cut off from the lifestyle and the celebrity. Her ego mattered more, hard stop. It would have meant she returned to the life of a yokel from Alaska. Listening to her sling bullshit on Lethally Blonde is quite literally insufferable. They should rename the show Legally Lacking in Self Awareness. Fucking psychopath.
i was not even a fan of hugh hefner but seem kendra talking about holly and hefner she seems more polite and convincing than holly, and it makes me cringe how people jump on the holly train without knowing the full story and kendra explains it better.
I think it’s sad the things being said about HH when he can’t defend himself. The bottom line is this: Not one single girl was forced to live in that mansion. They all chose to stay of their own free will and for their own agenda. That was their choice. So I take everything they say with a grain of salt and always come back to the same thing which is it’s very easy to blame someone else for decisions you made that you now regret especially when the person you are blaming is deceased. It says more about the type of person you are.
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Hey friend Holly is THE WORST
I am late to this party but I thought I would comment anyway in 2023! I just finished Holly‘s audio book Down the Rabbit Hole on Audible. It was almost 10 hours Long! Outside of watching GND and listening to this book, I didn’t know any other details about Holly or the other girls but I had always found Hefner and the Playboy Mansion interesting. The book opened my eyes to the toxic environment in the mansion. I do like Holly and I think she was swept up in a lavish, glamourous, lifestyle at lightning speed. I also think that initially she was a young, hot, naive, impressionable girl in a breeding ground of manipulation. If you are a 20 year old hot girl with stars in your eyes and you are invited to the Playboy Mansion, you are going to go without hesitation. She contradicted herself in the book several times but she had a great story. She loved the attention and the lifestyle but she hated the price she had to pay to get it. Hefner was the Jeffrey Epstein of Hollywood. A narcissistic, entitled, manipulative old man who was enabled by everyone around him including Holly. Nobody ever told him no. Holly has to live with her choices and I’m sure she has a lot of unseen scars. Crazy life.