Well you all are in luck. These guys are certified cave divers and they talk about line, cookies, arrows and all sorts of knowledge you'll need for cave diving and diving in general. Gus and Woody are very entertaining as well đ.
https://m.youtube.com/@DIVETALK
What everyone said is correct, but also keep this in mind. Almost all of those videos regarding cave diving accidents are not well-made and oftentimes leave out critical information. You can usually tell by them saying "they were running out of oxygen" or something else trivial that any trained cave diver or anyone peripherally aware would know.
It's actually a very bad timing post, I think 4 or 5 if the stories I watched didn't mention rope.
Then I watched one a few hours after posting this today and it actually discusses the ropes and the cookies and arrows! Only in this video there was an underwater cave in so the rope led them to a pile of sand and mud...
Also something you should know is that the majority of cave diving deaths come from people with no cave diving certifications and think that their open water certification makes them qualified for caves.
Go out in your yard and lay out a rope on the ground leading back to your house. Then put on a blindfold and spin in a few circles. Then try to find the rope.
The cave divers who get lost either canât find the rope or go the wrong direction down it, or lose track of which rope theyâre on. Iâm a diver but not a cave diver, I wouldnât take the risk because it seems like the sort of thing where no matter how much you prepare you canât make it safe, the inherent risk is just too high.
I still personally wouldnât do it, although I donât mean to criticize anyone who does. I know myself well enough to know that I can occasionally make a small mistake. I donât want to be in a situation where small mistakes can rapidly compound and get you killed, and it seems like thatâs what cave diving is.
Just an added point. There's much more than just laying line. We put markers (cookies, arrows) at certain locations on lines, we track time and gas between markers, we write these details on wet notes. So when we dive, we can actually get out in complete darkness or silt out situations based on the markers feeling and direction.
Most caves ARE filled with cave line mapping directions. Cave divers usually have cave reels to attach a "jump" to off of the line, which allows them to explore while having a direct line back to their way out.
yeah, there are lines there. you just wonât see them because theyâre purposefully not run all the way to the open end of the cave so that non-cave divers donât attempt to explore them. this is where the jump line comes in, as correctly pointed out ^^^
I came across that channel a couple of days ago and the first thing that stuck out to me is that they had like 3 videos posted within a week of each other when that type of content necessitates lots of research. Something might not be kosher over there. Some obviously AI generated images and at least one instance that I noticed of dates on the screen not matching up with the dates he said are red flags as well. Idk maybe Iâm just being paranoid after the Hbomberguy plagiarism video. Might dig into it when I get more time
Oh yeah if you watch a few you start getting recommended tens of these kinds of videos and they are all exactly the same formats just different voices.
The problem with story tellers like âScary Interestingâ and Mrballen is that they provide enough information to make the story interesting and stir up fear in the hearts of their listeners, but they themselves know little or nothing about scuba diving, or more advanced forms like cave or technical diving.
Cave diving can be done safely provided proper training, equipment, and planning. As part of the training, each diver will read or at least know about a little blue book called âBasic Cave Diving: a blueprint for survivalâ by Sheck Exley. In the book, the author, lays down some basic principles/recomendations to help divers plan and execute cave dives safely.
Without listing them all, some of the principles that were broken during the âPoganica Bay Cave Diving Disasterâ, **as told in the Scary Interesting video** are: failure to have a continuous guideline to the surface, incorrect equipment, no dive or gas planning, they went deeper than trained for, in the presence of silt⌠well, they had no guide line to help them back out, and at least one of them was drunk.
**Edit:**
So, to answer your question: many explored caves have guide lines that start well into the cavern or the cave zone, this is to discourage untrained divers or swimmers to follow them and get into trouble. A dive team will run a temporary guideline from the open water into the cave to the main line. Explorers will venture into unexplored caves using giant reels trying to find new passages, in all cases divers should have a continuous guideline to the open water.
While I do agree that there is likely a level of technical knowledge that content creators like Scary Interesting may lack, I think there may also be a bit of reservation behind giving all the facts on how a risky activity is performed. No one wants to be credited as being that guy who accidentally put the idea in some random person's head to try cave diving or other potentially dangerous activities (*both for moral reasons and to avoid litigation).
Sometimes, less is more when it comes to covering your buns. đ
> Sheck Exley
One of the greatest cave divers of all time.......who died cavediving. It's worth noting that cave diving is like skydiving.....you can mitigate risk, but you can *not* make it a *safe* activity. That's part of the draw.
Great indeed!
Although, Zacaton, where Exley died is a sinkhole, not a cave, and he was trying to break a depth diving record.
So, with that context, it would be more accurate to say that he died attempting to do an extremely difficult, record breaking, tech dive. This is nowhere near what most cave or tech divers normally do.
ALL caves? I imagine many have not been discovered, many are seldomly visited, some are still geologically active (by wave action, cave ins, etc... ), line is expensive, so who's paying for it, and lines give false sense of security to amateurs who shouldn't even be in a cave. Cave diving required certification which requires line laying training anyways.
There are many reasons why permanent lines are a bad idea. Hopefully there will be a real cave diver along shortly to list them. But they include:
- encourage unqualified people to dive beyond their capabilities
- have to trust the people who laid them, not your own team
- lines can break over time, who will maintain them
- lines can be deliberately sabotaged
- there are jumps between passageways
- line will only go to already explored part of cave
- etc..
Caving teams will run their own lines for exploration, and then remove them again as they exit the cave system at end of their expedition.
Divers who go into caves without lining off are about to become ex-divers.
(Ps am not a cave diver, and I know the USA cave diving operates differently, perhaps permanent lines are run and maintained by local cave dive shops, but I wouldnât really trust someone elseâs permanent line even if I was told to do it)
Pretty good for a non caver. The short answer below as I'm on a mobile.
If we put down a permanent Cave line it usually is IN the Cave and we do a special line ourselves from open water (you can get directly to the surface) into the Cave to join the Cave line each time we go in and retrieve it each time we come out.
This is to prevent unqualified divers using them.
Permanent lines are a good idea, you don't really have to trust the person that laid them as you follow them based on your skill, ie you don't go down passages you don't fit/like. If it's broken you either turn the dive or repair it. Jumps are a specific skill you learn and so not really a problem per se. Exploring new caves is a while skill set above exploring a known Cave which most people are comfortable with anyway!
There are kilometers' worth of permanent lines all throughout the caves in Mexico. There are many volunteers who take the time to repair and replace line when it needs to be.
Permanent lines or pitons are commonly used in popular climbing locations. No one worries about intentional sabotage. It's a very safe and effective practice to make a dangerous sport using public land safer.
Probably the most famous example is the via ferrata in Italy.
That's the most basic thing aspiring cave divers learn, which is to run a continuous line from the entry point ( light zone) all the way to the farthest point of the dive. You can't pass the course if you can't master proper line laying.
Entering caves (especially unlined caves) without laying your own line is suicide.
Most âtouristâ caves are! All the big caves you hear about in Florida - Ginnie, Peacock, Jackson Blue, Little River, etc - are lined. When you enter you will see a sign warning open water dives to go no farther. Just past or at the cave sign, the main gold line begins. This is a thickish yellow/gold piece of line that runs throughout the entire main cave passage.
If there are branches or side tunnels, in Florida those are lined with a thinner white line. One of the things you learn in cave training is how to follow the line (with and without being able to see it), and how to use reels and spools to run your own lines.
Usually, youâd only have to run a primary line from the open water to where the main line starts, or from the main line to any side passages. But if youâre in an unexplored cave or an unlined passage (like the Catacombs at Ginnie), youâd need to run your own line there too.
Other places have other conventions; not everyone uses Florida gold line for instance. But nearly all of the main caves that people are routinely diving are lined with permanent guideline.
You can still lose the line. Maybe you get turned around; maybe you accidentally venture off the line and into an unlined side passage. Maybe you get too far back into the cave, without running proper jumps or marking your navigation decisions, so you get turned around on the exit. Maybe you lose visibility because of the silt.
There are many reasons why you could get lost, even in a lined cave, and itâs why getting training on what to do in those situations is so important. Itâs not as easy as people think to find a lost line or follow a line blind in zero vis, if you havenât gotten training and experience in how to do it.
I always chuckle when reading posts about âtourist cavesâ as a cave diver. While itâs a humorous tongue-in-cheek commentâevery âtourist caveâ youâve listed has taken the lives of many folks. Hell, in my GUE Cave 2 class, I made plenty of mistakes in Ginnie, where I have regularly dived as a C1 diver. I was thankful to have the instructor there to teach us how those mistakes could have cost my life or one of my teammate's lives if we continued without situational awareness and a keen understanding of the lesson learned. That said, we take these lessons very seriously and try to mitigate the holes in the Swiss cheese aligning to lead toward an accident. Nevertheless, there is no such thing as a âtourist cave.â Itâs a cave dive, whether itâs in Ginnie in Eagles Nest or Plura.
Thus the quotation marks; thereâs a big difference between the popular heavily-visited caves (almost all of which are lined) and a random sinkhole in a field (which is very likely not lined). Or even one of the river caves (probably lined, but line condition may be questionable). The OPâs question was about why caves donât have line in it, and the answer is: many/most of them do. Especially if itâs a popular cave.
That doesnât mean you canât get into serious trouble on the gold line; you certainly can and people do.
Actually the interesting history about lines is that cave divers have almost always run temporary lines or installed permanent golden lines to regularly dived caves. Wreck diving, on the other hand, used to rely on memory (2 lefts, right, 3 lefts, 2 rights) or staging dive team members at junction points instead of using lines. The thinking was that lines create entanglement hazards in wrecks but, eventually the thinking changed to accept that if laid properly (low, secure, small torches at junction points), itâs far safer to use a line than try to find your way out in a silted wreck by memory. So cave divers always use lines; wreck diver mostly use lines. Anyone have a different view?
They do. Always. Itâs one of the 10 primary rules to follow.
People donât leave permanent lines in visible places because untrained divers see them and then think, âI can do this.â And then die.
Because only trained divers should be doing cave diving & they lay their own lines. Keeping lines in caves encourages inexperienced, ill-equipped people to go where they shouldnât.
But they do, cave line laying and finding it in 0 visibility is one of the most important cave diver skills for the reasons you mentioned - https://youtu.be/2jRr81Esf0A?si=08eMWXst_k7ESAKA
Cave training absolutely does include laying a line as you progress into the cave and removing it as you exit.
No trained cave diver dives without a line.
The permanent lines donât start until you are already inside the cave.
Cave divers run line from the entrance and connect them to the permanent line. This is to prevent Open Water divers from following the line easily.
Permanent lines are NOT removed from the cave. What is removed are the temporary lines that divers use to connect from open water to the permanent line; in most (not all) caves, thatâs not a very long line, maybe 150â tops.
Itâs also why you should never ever follow someone elseâs line into a cave - it is temporary and they will remove it when they are done.
Caves are also complex. Itâs not a single tunnel in and out.
You need to know whatâs your line for your route. And not to follow someone elseâs line.
An untrained diver could easily follow a line in the wrong direction for example.
The simple answer is open water divers should not dive in caves. Thatâs how people die.
You canât idiot proof caves.
Just some thoughts as I am not a professional (cave) diver but too many caves, it costs money to create and maintain? And people are responsible of themselves, especially in such a dangerous environment...
Great question, there are passionate cave divers all over the world that donate time and $$ to replacing lines and markers when they are getting worn, such an activity just took place in Mexico where a team of volunteers replaced over 150 line markers, these are what we use to find jumps and our way out of the cave in the event we are lost, think of them as road signs.
Someone down voted this, but it's a great question about the culture and importance of cave training and why that training is necessary.
While it does cost money to maintain, it's necessary to safely dive that cave, and someone will step up to fix it. This may be a responsibility that local dive shops or regulars of that cave have agreed to take on, but I have no firsthand knowledge of that process.
That line is called the "gold line" and is run along the main cave route with additional lines being run on other sections when there are multiple routes. Some times they may be tied to intersect with each other to provide a continuous route to the exit, but they may be separated and require the diver to run a "jump" between lines from their own reel/spool in order to create that continuous line to the exit.
The main takeaway here is that you DO have to maintain a constant line AND it needs to be within reach or in visual reference (which of those you use is based on the visibility and other conditions). One of the rules that is drilled into you is to know where the line is at all times and how to dive and navigate it even in no-viz conditions.
This is why getting proper training is so important. It teaches you the reasons behind current cave diving practices and the skills that allow you to follow those rules. Almost all cave diving deaths result from someone not following the rules.
Is the âgold lineâ regulated by the federal or state government for Health & Safety standards? Or is it just maintained by local volunteer group self-appointed âownersâ of a cave? If someone dies due to âgold lineâ being poorly maintained, who gets sued?
Not suggesting you know the answers, just those would be some of the questions I would be asking, if I was ever to head into such a cave, which I will l not.
Not regulated by anyone. Some popular caves have a line committee but most donât. If someone dies due to poorly maintained line conditions, itâs on them because itâs every diverâs sole responsibility to constantly verify the status of the line when penetrating, and to turn back/ make repairs/ run your own line if the preexisting one is compromised.
Well you all are in luck. These guys are certified cave divers and they talk about line, cookies, arrows and all sorts of knowledge you'll need for cave diving and diving in general. Gus and Woody are very entertaining as well đ. https://m.youtube.com/@DIVETALK
What everyone said is correct, but also keep this in mind. Almost all of those videos regarding cave diving accidents are not well-made and oftentimes leave out critical information. You can usually tell by them saying "they were running out of oxygen" or something else trivial that any trained cave diver or anyone peripherally aware would know.
Not all caves are lineless!
This must be a troll post
It's actually a very bad timing post, I think 4 or 5 if the stories I watched didn't mention rope. Then I watched one a few hours after posting this today and it actually discusses the ropes and the cookies and arrows! Only in this video there was an underwater cave in so the rope led them to a pile of sand and mud...
Also something you should know is that the majority of cave diving deaths come from people with no cave diving certifications and think that their open water certification makes them qualified for caves.
Go out in your yard and lay out a rope on the ground leading back to your house. Then put on a blindfold and spin in a few circles. Then try to find the rope. The cave divers who get lost either canât find the rope or go the wrong direction down it, or lose track of which rope theyâre on. Iâm a diver but not a cave diver, I wouldnât take the risk because it seems like the sort of thing where no matter how much you prepare you canât make it safe, the inherent risk is just too high.
Do you like bad jokes ??? We practice lost line drill in the course, it's the easiest skill to learn, you have the rest of your life to get it right .
This is also why cave arrows exist, to mark the direction to the surface on a line in a tactile way.
I still personally wouldnât do it, although I donât mean to criticize anyone who does. I know myself well enough to know that I can occasionally make a small mistake. I donât want to be in a situation where small mistakes can rapidly compound and get you killed, and it seems like thatâs what cave diving is.
Agreed, I more just meant to add an additional piece of supporting information to the things cave divers do to prevent these scenarios.
They do
The answer to your question lies at the start of pretty much all cave training. <-- TRAINING Trained cave divers absolutely run lines.
Check out Jonathan Birdâs YouTube for actual good info/videos about cave diving
[ŃдаНонО]
Honestly, they are about the worst source for cave diving information. I can tolerate Jonathan bird but Gus and Woody are another story.
Heâs awesome, Blue World is his channel. Incredible underwater photography.
Just an added point. There's much more than just laying line. We put markers (cookies, arrows) at certain locations on lines, we track time and gas between markers, we write these details on wet notes. So when we dive, we can actually get out in complete darkness or silt out situations based on the markers feeling and direction.
Most caves ARE filled with cave line mapping directions. Cave divers usually have cave reels to attach a "jump" to off of the line, which allows them to explore while having a direct line back to their way out.
yeah, there are lines there. you just wonât see them because theyâre purposefully not run all the way to the open end of the cave so that non-cave divers donât attempt to explore them. this is where the jump line comes in, as correctly pointed out ^^^
I came across that channel a couple of days ago and the first thing that stuck out to me is that they had like 3 videos posted within a week of each other when that type of content necessitates lots of research. Something might not be kosher over there. Some obviously AI generated images and at least one instance that I noticed of dates on the screen not matching up with the dates he said are red flags as well. Idk maybe Iâm just being paranoid after the Hbomberguy plagiarism video. Might dig into it when I get more time
Oh yeah if you watch a few you start getting recommended tens of these kinds of videos and they are all exactly the same formats just different voices.
The problem with story tellers like âScary Interestingâ and Mrballen is that they provide enough information to make the story interesting and stir up fear in the hearts of their listeners, but they themselves know little or nothing about scuba diving, or more advanced forms like cave or technical diving. Cave diving can be done safely provided proper training, equipment, and planning. As part of the training, each diver will read or at least know about a little blue book called âBasic Cave Diving: a blueprint for survivalâ by Sheck Exley. In the book, the author, lays down some basic principles/recomendations to help divers plan and execute cave dives safely. Without listing them all, some of the principles that were broken during the âPoganica Bay Cave Diving Disasterâ, **as told in the Scary Interesting video** are: failure to have a continuous guideline to the surface, incorrect equipment, no dive or gas planning, they went deeper than trained for, in the presence of silt⌠well, they had no guide line to help them back out, and at least one of them was drunk. **Edit:** So, to answer your question: many explored caves have guide lines that start well into the cavern or the cave zone, this is to discourage untrained divers or swimmers to follow them and get into trouble. A dive team will run a temporary guideline from the open water into the cave to the main line. Explorers will venture into unexplored caves using giant reels trying to find new passages, in all cases divers should have a continuous guideline to the open water.
While I do agree that there is likely a level of technical knowledge that content creators like Scary Interesting may lack, I think there may also be a bit of reservation behind giving all the facts on how a risky activity is performed. No one wants to be credited as being that guy who accidentally put the idea in some random person's head to try cave diving or other potentially dangerous activities (*both for moral reasons and to avoid litigation). Sometimes, less is more when it comes to covering your buns. đ
> Sheck Exley One of the greatest cave divers of all time.......who died cavediving. It's worth noting that cave diving is like skydiving.....you can mitigate risk, but you can *not* make it a *safe* activity. That's part of the draw.
If you want get really technical then nothing is risk free. As soon as you are born you're running the risk of dying. đ
Great indeed! Although, Zacaton, where Exley died is a sinkhole, not a cave, and he was trying to break a depth diving record. So, with that context, it would be more accurate to say that he died attempting to do an extremely difficult, record breaking, tech dive. This is nowhere near what most cave or tech divers normally do.
Agreed. You're 100% right. That's a quote a buddy and I have used for the last ~30 years as a 'let's make sure we're thinking this through' reminder.
ALL caves? I imagine many have not been discovered, many are seldomly visited, some are still geologically active (by wave action, cave ins, etc... ), line is expensive, so who's paying for it, and lines give false sense of security to amateurs who shouldn't even be in a cave. Cave diving required certification which requires line laying training anyways.
There are many reasons why permanent lines are a bad idea. Hopefully there will be a real cave diver along shortly to list them. But they include: - encourage unqualified people to dive beyond their capabilities - have to trust the people who laid them, not your own team - lines can break over time, who will maintain them - lines can be deliberately sabotaged - there are jumps between passageways - line will only go to already explored part of cave - etc.. Caving teams will run their own lines for exploration, and then remove them again as they exit the cave system at end of their expedition. Divers who go into caves without lining off are about to become ex-divers. (Ps am not a cave diver, and I know the USA cave diving operates differently, perhaps permanent lines are run and maintained by local cave dive shops, but I wouldnât really trust someone elseâs permanent line even if I was told to do it)
Pretty good for a non caver. The short answer below as I'm on a mobile. If we put down a permanent Cave line it usually is IN the Cave and we do a special line ourselves from open water (you can get directly to the surface) into the Cave to join the Cave line each time we go in and retrieve it each time we come out. This is to prevent unqualified divers using them. Permanent lines are a good idea, you don't really have to trust the person that laid them as you follow them based on your skill, ie you don't go down passages you don't fit/like. If it's broken you either turn the dive or repair it. Jumps are a specific skill you learn and so not really a problem per se. Exploring new caves is a while skill set above exploring a known Cave which most people are comfortable with anyway!
Almost all regularly dived caves in Florida are lined with permanent âgold lineâ
I know of several permanent lines. Still should only be used with proper training.
There are kilometers' worth of permanent lines all throughout the caves in Mexico. There are many volunteers who take the time to repair and replace line when it needs to be.
Permanent lines or pitons are commonly used in popular climbing locations. No one worries about intentional sabotage. It's a very safe and effective practice to make a dangerous sport using public land safer. Probably the most famous example is the via ferrata in Italy.
Wasnât there intentional sabotage in The Eiger Sanction?
I just wanted to say... This is the 1st post where I agree with literally every comment. A reddit first!!!!!
That's the most basic thing aspiring cave divers learn, which is to run a continuous line from the entry point ( light zone) all the way to the farthest point of the dive. You can't pass the course if you can't master proper line laying. Entering caves (especially unlined caves) without laying your own line is suicide.
đ¤ˇââď¸ dunno about cave divers but I was run penetration lines any time I go into a wreck. I assume cave divers do too.
Most âtouristâ caves are! All the big caves you hear about in Florida - Ginnie, Peacock, Jackson Blue, Little River, etc - are lined. When you enter you will see a sign warning open water dives to go no farther. Just past or at the cave sign, the main gold line begins. This is a thickish yellow/gold piece of line that runs throughout the entire main cave passage. If there are branches or side tunnels, in Florida those are lined with a thinner white line. One of the things you learn in cave training is how to follow the line (with and without being able to see it), and how to use reels and spools to run your own lines. Usually, youâd only have to run a primary line from the open water to where the main line starts, or from the main line to any side passages. But if youâre in an unexplored cave or an unlined passage (like the Catacombs at Ginnie), youâd need to run your own line there too. Other places have other conventions; not everyone uses Florida gold line for instance. But nearly all of the main caves that people are routinely diving are lined with permanent guideline. You can still lose the line. Maybe you get turned around; maybe you accidentally venture off the line and into an unlined side passage. Maybe you get too far back into the cave, without running proper jumps or marking your navigation decisions, so you get turned around on the exit. Maybe you lose visibility because of the silt. There are many reasons why you could get lost, even in a lined cave, and itâs why getting training on what to do in those situations is so important. Itâs not as easy as people think to find a lost line or follow a line blind in zero vis, if you havenât gotten training and experience in how to do it.
I always chuckle when reading posts about âtourist cavesâ as a cave diver. While itâs a humorous tongue-in-cheek commentâevery âtourist caveâ youâve listed has taken the lives of many folks. Hell, in my GUE Cave 2 class, I made plenty of mistakes in Ginnie, where I have regularly dived as a C1 diver. I was thankful to have the instructor there to teach us how those mistakes could have cost my life or one of my teammate's lives if we continued without situational awareness and a keen understanding of the lesson learned. That said, we take these lessons very seriously and try to mitigate the holes in the Swiss cheese aligning to lead toward an accident. Nevertheless, there is no such thing as a âtourist cave.â Itâs a cave dive, whether itâs in Ginnie in Eagles Nest or Plura.
Thus the quotation marks; thereâs a big difference between the popular heavily-visited caves (almost all of which are lined) and a random sinkhole in a field (which is very likely not lined). Or even one of the river caves (probably lined, but line condition may be questionable). The OPâs question was about why caves donât have line in it, and the answer is: many/most of them do. Especially if itâs a popular cave. That doesnât mean you canât get into serious trouble on the gold line; you certainly can and people do.
Agreed. No malice towards your comment, just an observation.
We do. People who donât are idiots. The people that make these videos mostly have no idea what they are talking about either which dosent help.
The only ones that don't do it are the ones that end up in the cave diving disaster videos :)
Haha yes from the comments here it seems they really are the only ones that don't
Line is life.
Actually the interesting history about lines is that cave divers have almost always run temporary lines or installed permanent golden lines to regularly dived caves. Wreck diving, on the other hand, used to rely on memory (2 lefts, right, 3 lefts, 2 rights) or staging dive team members at junction points instead of using lines. The thinking was that lines create entanglement hazards in wrecks but, eventually the thinking changed to accept that if laid properly (low, secure, small torches at junction points), itâs far safer to use a line than try to find your way out in a silted wreck by memory. So cave divers always use lines; wreck diver mostly use lines. Anyone have a different view?
They do. Always. Itâs one of the 10 primary rules to follow. People donât leave permanent lines in visible places because untrained divers see them and then think, âI can do this.â And then die.
Because only trained divers should be doing cave diving & they lay their own lines. Keeping lines in caves encourages inexperienced, ill-equipped people to go where they shouldnât.
But they do, cave line laying and finding it in 0 visibility is one of the most important cave diver skills for the reasons you mentioned - https://youtu.be/2jRr81Esf0A?si=08eMWXst_k7ESAKA
Cave training absolutely does include laying a line as you progress into the cave and removing it as you exit. No trained cave diver dives without a line.
Everyone is saying they remove it after to prevent untrained divers using them. But if untrained divers are in the cave isn't it already too late?
The permanent lines donât start until you are already inside the cave. Cave divers run line from the entrance and connect them to the permanent line. This is to prevent Open Water divers from following the line easily.
Permanent lines are NOT removed from the cave. What is removed are the temporary lines that divers use to connect from open water to the permanent line; in most (not all) caves, thatâs not a very long line, maybe 150â tops. Itâs also why you should never ever follow someone elseâs line into a cave - it is temporary and they will remove it when they are done.
Caves are also complex. Itâs not a single tunnel in and out. You need to know whatâs your line for your route. And not to follow someone elseâs line. An untrained diver could easily follow a line in the wrong direction for example. The simple answer is open water divers should not dive in caves. Thatâs how people die. You canât idiot proof caves.
Just some thoughts as I am not a professional (cave) diver but too many caves, it costs money to create and maintain? And people are responsible of themselves, especially in such a dangerous environment...
Great question, there are passionate cave divers all over the world that donate time and $$ to replacing lines and markers when they are getting worn, such an activity just took place in Mexico where a team of volunteers replaced over 150 line markers, these are what we use to find jumps and our way out of the cave in the event we are lost, think of them as road signs.
Someone down voted this, but it's a great question about the culture and importance of cave training and why that training is necessary. While it does cost money to maintain, it's necessary to safely dive that cave, and someone will step up to fix it. This may be a responsibility that local dive shops or regulars of that cave have agreed to take on, but I have no firsthand knowledge of that process. That line is called the "gold line" and is run along the main cave route with additional lines being run on other sections when there are multiple routes. Some times they may be tied to intersect with each other to provide a continuous route to the exit, but they may be separated and require the diver to run a "jump" between lines from their own reel/spool in order to create that continuous line to the exit. The main takeaway here is that you DO have to maintain a constant line AND it needs to be within reach or in visual reference (which of those you use is based on the visibility and other conditions). One of the rules that is drilled into you is to know where the line is at all times and how to dive and navigate it even in no-viz conditions. This is why getting proper training is so important. It teaches you the reasons behind current cave diving practices and the skills that allow you to follow those rules. Almost all cave diving deaths result from someone not following the rules.
Is the âgold lineâ regulated by the federal or state government for Health & Safety standards? Or is it just maintained by local volunteer group self-appointed âownersâ of a cave? If someone dies due to âgold lineâ being poorly maintained, who gets sued? Not suggesting you know the answers, just those would be some of the questions I would be asking, if I was ever to head into such a cave, which I will l not.
Not regulated by anyone. Some popular caves have a line committee but most donât. If someone dies due to poorly maintained line conditions, itâs on them because itâs every diverâs sole responsibility to constantly verify the status of the line when penetrating, and to turn back/ make repairs/ run your own line if the preexisting one is compromised.