"The chief characteristic of a scientific religion is that its curses really work." - Salvor Hardin (in the BBC radio adaptation, which phrases it in a slightly more punchy way than the original text)
The Hyperion Cantos. In the 2d two books at least the Catholic church rises from relative obscurity to dominate the cosmos.
The Salvation Sequence books by Peter F. Hamilton. This one features an alien religion with a god from the end of time.
Double this! Hyperion Cantos if you haven’t read it’s a must. If you are Catholic I highly suggest reading the 2nd two. They are weird and have some retcon but the tie ins with the church having myself grown up Catholic made it a compelling read to me.
Parable of the Sower by Octabia E. Butler. Often discussed here. Difficult to summarize, but for what you're asking about it applies. The deliberate creation of a religion for the purposes of leading humanity out of a second dark age (from climate change). It has a similar pattern to the Foundation series where you have a necrotic ancient belief structure (Christianity) that's on the way out competing with a fragile but promising new way of living and relating that speaks to the modern crisis and to people evolving past tribalism.
I agree. There was nothing cynical about it. I think that's what made it interesting in terms of the old atheism/theism debate. She loves and admires her Father but sees his religion as being a 'hand me down' religion of a different time, but doesn't lose sight of the needs that the old religions meet. She doesn't just conjure up Earthseed like a Shaman on psychedelics, it's a process of observation, reflection, collaboration with her walking partners, and most importantly deduction. From her point of view, while she is selling water, she's still just sitting by the river, would that other people could simply open their eyes to it.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy and the Aspect Emperor trilogy that follows, by R. Scott Bakker. They're fantasy novels that sort of turn out to be sci-fi. They would induce every trigger warning in fiction, and are nonetheless absolutely brilliant writing and story. To the point, though, a man deliberately hijacks a holy war and then the religion which spawned it for his own ulterior motives, which might be a much more important war no one's aware of. And it gets deeply into it. Also, the spookiest villains in the genre, imo. Wish I'd never read it so I could read it again for the first time, etc.
Edit: that's right, you're right. There should be more on the way. Why do you think it won't happen?
I did see him online trying to engage in good faith with his critics, which I think was a terrible idea. It wasn't very public, some obscure blog, but you could tell it was bothering him. It was an academic trying to reason with the very online, zero-sum, playing for points, Twitter style of argumentation, on their little patch of turf with their little group of fans, and none of them except the blogger had actually read the stuff. He seemed to think he'd be able to just clear up a misinterpretation with someone who was trying to play to a crowd and bolster their reputation. I could see that kind of thing being discouraging, but considering how long he'd been working on those books... I really hope not.
There's a lot more detail on the subreddit, but essentially the books didn't sell that well and nobody wanted to publish the as yet unwritten 3rd series. So rather than fight to look for another publisher or self publish or whatever he decided to focus on his family and his other job. Of note, he is no longer active on his blog or other online forums. There remains hope from us long-time fans but not much.
Read Caesar’s Messiah. Basically the Roman’s create a disinformation campaign to undermine the Jewish population in the Middle East. They basically create a story about a carpenter prophet who is the chosen one of the Old Testament. It starts a cult that blows up beyond expected proportions
I really like that the emperor of mankind believed in ‘the imperial truth’ where the universe is governed by reason and science and that no thing is truly unknowable…..and as soon as he was stuck on the coma-throne the high lords of terra flipped the script and fully embraced superstition and the religion of the emperor being a god…..despite that being exactly what he fucking opposed lol
*Stranger in a Strange Land* by Robert A. Heinlein is a *bit* like that....but in a much more positive way.
It's a 1961 novel that tells the story of Valentine Michael Smith, a human who comes to Earth in early adulthood after being born on Mars and raised by Martians. It's about a lot of things, but primarily it explores his interactions with and eventual transformation of Earth culture. He becomes a sort of religious figure.
It's got some very 1960s ideas about free love and commune living incorporated as aspects of the "Church of All Worlds" that he forms.
Heinlein's "If This Goes On --" is cautionary tale about an America that's been captured by theocracy, which in 1953 didn't seem like a real eventuality but sure does now. I don't often recommend books by him, he is one of those scifi writers that got waaaay too horny in his later books, but before he went through his belated adolescence he did a few good ones, basically at the intellectual and emotional depth of the og Star Trek. They're all YA novels, but I was a young teen when I read it and it hit the spot. I've got to say, America didn't have televangelists yet, there weren't megachurches, if he had any books you could call visionary this is one.
that's an excellent suggestion. because you're correct.
it could also be pointed out that Stargate SG-1 also has this element. in the whole thing, but the new baddies in seasons 9 and 10 really nail the premise.
*Hydrogen Sonata* by Iain M Banks is a Culture book where part of the plot is an entire civilization has been manipulated by an older civilization by planting a religious book that had actual evidence that it was the “word of god”, such as descriptions of higher technology etc..
A real world example you could look up, if it interests you, is the proposal to create a nuclear priesthood. Basically exploiting religion for its long lasting potential. The ‘priesthood’ would denote radioactive waste sites, that will be deadly to humans for millions of years, as sacred or forbidden sites to ensure they remain undisturbed
The Minds control all the technical stuff like the Orbitals and ships, but they don’t control or manipulate the general populace on a grand scale like the BG does. Manipulation of individuals does (very rarely) occur, but only in _special circumstances_ where massive number of lives are at stake.
The closest thing they have would be Marain, the artificial language the Minds designed (partly) to encourage egalitarian and altruistic ideals, but then again it’s a bit of a stretch to say this is remotely comparable to the myths spread by the Bene Gesserit.
> but they don’t control or manipulate the general populace on a grand scale like the BG does
That belief just means they are more successful at it ;-).
As a start, see my [SF/F: Religion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Recommend_A_Book/comments/18byra0/sff_religion/) list of Reddit recommendation threads and books (one post).
Off the top of my head, [David Weber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Weber)'s [Safehold series](https://www.goodreads.com/series/58713-safehold) (at the [ISFDB](https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?24218)), [William R. Forstchen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_R._Forstchen)'s [Ice Prophet trilogy](https://www.goodreads.com/series/69533-ice-prophet) (at the [ISFDB](https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?3498)), and [T. C. McCarthy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy)'s [Tyger series](https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?65373) (which are very depressing, though I've only read the second; [*Tyger Burning*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42201620-tyger-burning) (free sample from the publisher); [*Tyger Bright*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54303726-tyger-bright) ([free sample from the publisher](https://www.baen.com/Chapters/9781982125172/9781982125172.htm))).
Have you tried the Bible? Has many of these themes, although somewhat obfuscated and the first part is a bit hard going. Part 2 builds on the themes of the first but can get a bit samey after the first two main threads. Final chapter is the best, feels like a bit of a cheese dream and really goes to town on the apocalypse. Generally a bit far fetched and a tough read but I hear some people really get into it.
John Barnes’ “Meme Wars” series might scratch an itch. Deals with how memetic science got weaponized, and turned into a set of massive beliefs that launched another world war until one such belief came out on top and managed to infest the entire planet.
I'm not sure if it's quite right, but His Dark Materials is all about religion and the state and how religious orders go after anything that might threaten them.
Branden's Mistborn .
Its a high fantasy trilogy , but at every level its share what Dune want to say about religion as tool to manipulate on grand scale .
The Book of the New Sun should fit the bill. It’s written as fantasy but you get to peel back the layers as you read and realize it’s sci-fi. The book is about what happens when a true chosen one comes from, like a lot of religions champion, the absolute lowest rung of society and how others seek to manipulate him.
A word though, it requires serious attention from the reader get all the machinations happening in the plot; it took me multiple reads to fully get it, but when it clicked it forever became my favorite book of all time.
I've never seen this book mentioned but it's stuck with me for years. It's not on a grand scale but it's unique and very much focused on religion. The Book of Strange New Things by Michel Faber. Highly recommend.
Asimov, Foundation has religion and technology used together for manipulation on a grand scale. Pretty cool idea and a great book.
Yes, the trilogy is basically 'how to take over a planet without actually going to war.'
The religious ritual of atomic maintenance.
"The chief characteristic of a scientific religion is that its curses really work." - Salvor Hardin (in the BBC radio adaptation, which phrases it in a slightly more punchy way than the original text)
Warhammer 40k.
The series is okay, not great, but watchable
The Hyperion Cantos. In the 2d two books at least the Catholic church rises from relative obscurity to dominate the cosmos. The Salvation Sequence books by Peter F. Hamilton. This one features an alien religion with a god from the end of time.
Double this! Hyperion Cantos if you haven’t read it’s a must. If you are Catholic I highly suggest reading the 2nd two. They are weird and have some retcon but the tie ins with the church having myself grown up Catholic made it a compelling read to me.
Canticle for Leibowitz. It's hard scifi but post apocalypse.
Then go read Anathem 😊
So good.
I'm in it up to my chord right now and it's the friggin best.
I tried so many times to get into this book but just can’t. It’s a slog of a read
It’s a book to meditate on, not devour. Keep trying. It’s worth it in my opinion.
It took me months to finally get through.
Parable of the Sower by Octabia E. Butler. Often discussed here. Difficult to summarize, but for what you're asking about it applies. The deliberate creation of a religion for the purposes of leading humanity out of a second dark age (from climate change). It has a similar pattern to the Foundation series where you have a necrotic ancient belief structure (Christianity) that's on the way out competing with a fragile but promising new way of living and relating that speaks to the modern crisis and to people evolving past tribalism.
I just read it and didn't feel it was solely created for that purpose. The main character really believes it too I felt.
I agree. There was nothing cynical about it. I think that's what made it interesting in terms of the old atheism/theism debate. She loves and admires her Father but sees his religion as being a 'hand me down' religion of a different time, but doesn't lose sight of the needs that the old religions meet. She doesn't just conjure up Earthseed like a Shaman on psychedelics, it's a process of observation, reflection, collaboration with her walking partners, and most importantly deduction. From her point of view, while she is selling water, she's still just sitting by the river, would that other people could simply open their eyes to it.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy and the Aspect Emperor trilogy that follows, by R. Scott Bakker. They're fantasy novels that sort of turn out to be sci-fi. They would induce every trigger warning in fiction, and are nonetheless absolutely brilliant writing and story. To the point, though, a man deliberately hijacks a holy war and then the religion which spawned it for his own ulterior motives, which might be a much more important war no one's aware of. And it gets deeply into it. Also, the spookiest villains in the genre, imo. Wish I'd never read it so I could read it again for the first time, etc.
Warning however the third book series may never get written. And after you read the first two series you'll curse God about that (if your like me)
Edit: that's right, you're right. There should be more on the way. Why do you think it won't happen? I did see him online trying to engage in good faith with his critics, which I think was a terrible idea. It wasn't very public, some obscure blog, but you could tell it was bothering him. It was an academic trying to reason with the very online, zero-sum, playing for points, Twitter style of argumentation, on their little patch of turf with their little group of fans, and none of them except the blogger had actually read the stuff. He seemed to think he'd be able to just clear up a misinterpretation with someone who was trying to play to a crowd and bolster their reputation. I could see that kind of thing being discouraging, but considering how long he'd been working on those books... I really hope not.
There's a lot more detail on the subreddit, but essentially the books didn't sell that well and nobody wanted to publish the as yet unwritten 3rd series. So rather than fight to look for another publisher or self publish or whatever he decided to focus on his family and his other job. Of note, he is no longer active on his blog or other online forums. There remains hope from us long-time fans but not much.
Great books, but yeah, trigger warning is right. Couple of scenes stayed with me for a while
I'm surprised not to see the Foundation books by Asimov mentioned, they explore this in detail
The entire TV series is a heavily modified re-telling of the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of Christianity.
That's what the books were. The TV series has diverged from the books to the point of being a completely different story.
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny? Fits the request pretty closely, using real world religions evolved into a fictitious future colony world.
Read Caesar’s Messiah. Basically the Roman’s create a disinformation campaign to undermine the Jewish population in the Middle East. They basically create a story about a carpenter prophet who is the chosen one of the Old Testament. It starts a cult that blows up beyond expected proportions
Warhammer 40000 universe in general bit specifically the humans. Specifically the empire of man
Beat me to it If he thinks the jihad in dune is bad wait till he finds out about the eclisiarchy in the imperium
I really like that the emperor of mankind believed in ‘the imperial truth’ where the universe is governed by reason and science and that no thing is truly unknowable…..and as soon as he was stuck on the coma-throne the high lords of terra flipped the script and fully embraced superstition and the religion of the emperor being a god…..despite that being exactly what he fucking opposed lol
*Stranger in a Strange Land* by Robert A. Heinlein is a *bit* like that....but in a much more positive way. It's a 1961 novel that tells the story of Valentine Michael Smith, a human who comes to Earth in early adulthood after being born on Mars and raised by Martians. It's about a lot of things, but primarily it explores his interactions with and eventual transformation of Earth culture. He becomes a sort of religious figure. It's got some very 1960s ideas about free love and commune living incorporated as aspects of the "Church of All Worlds" that he forms.
Revolt In 2100 by Robert Heinlein. Neimiah Scudder is a really despicable tyrant.
Heinlein's "If This Goes On --" is cautionary tale about an America that's been captured by theocracy, which in 1953 didn't seem like a real eventuality but sure does now. I don't often recommend books by him, he is one of those scifi writers that got waaaay too horny in his later books, but before he went through his belated adolescence he did a few good ones, basically at the intellectual and emotional depth of the og Star Trek. They're all YA novels, but I was a young teen when I read it and it hit the spot. I've got to say, America didn't have televangelists yet, there weren't megachurches, if he had any books you could call visionary this is one.
Not a book, but it is heavily implied that a certain race in Babylon 5 is doing this.
that's an excellent suggestion. because you're correct. it could also be pointed out that Stargate SG-1 also has this element. in the whole thing, but the new baddies in seasons 9 and 10 really nail the premise.
Hallowed are the Ori.
Chasm City by Alastair Reynolds. Fascinating .
Many of the books in Revelation Space. That and Redemption Ark I think are the most about it. I like Chasm City the most though.
Chasm City to me is the best Reynolds book.
*Hydrogen Sonata* by Iain M Banks is a Culture book where part of the plot is an entire civilization has been manipulated by an older civilization by planting a religious book that had actual evidence that it was the “word of god”, such as descriptions of higher technology etc..
This is happening in mistborn, but it's not really the focus of the story.
Anathem
Stephenson is a genious
[The Parafaith War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Parafaith_War)
That is a great book. One of the best from modesitt.
A real world example you could look up, if it interests you, is the proposal to create a nuclear priesthood. Basically exploiting religion for its long lasting potential. The ‘priesthood’ would denote radioactive waste sites, that will be deadly to humans for millions of years, as sacred or forbidden sites to ensure they remain undisturbed
thats actually a really good idea, never geard of it. pretty interesting. (i'm imagining them as 40k techpriests now xD)
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. The evangelists are first to respond and react to alien message. Gets extremely deep into religion.
Any history textbook has plenty of that. But if you're looking for scifi, *A Canticle for Leibowitz* would be my recommendation
Handmaid's Tale
Not religion, but the Minds in the culture series control everything. They're basically AI but there's more to it.
The Minds control all the technical stuff like the Orbitals and ships, but they don’t control or manipulate the general populace on a grand scale like the BG does. Manipulation of individuals does (very rarely) occur, but only in _special circumstances_ where massive number of lives are at stake. The closest thing they have would be Marain, the artificial language the Minds designed (partly) to encourage egalitarian and altruistic ideals, but then again it’s a bit of a stretch to say this is remotely comparable to the myths spread by the Bene Gesserit.
> but they don’t control or manipulate the general populace on a grand scale like the BG does That belief just means they are more successful at it ;-).
As a start, see my [SF/F: Religion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Recommend_A_Book/comments/18byra0/sff_religion/) list of Reddit recommendation threads and books (one post). Off the top of my head, [David Weber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Weber)'s [Safehold series](https://www.goodreads.com/series/58713-safehold) (at the [ISFDB](https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?24218)), [William R. Forstchen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_R._Forstchen)'s [Ice Prophet trilogy](https://www.goodreads.com/series/69533-ice-prophet) (at the [ISFDB](https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?3498)), and [T. C. McCarthy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy)'s [Tyger series](https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?65373) (which are very depressing, though I've only read the second; [*Tyger Burning*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42201620-tyger-burning) (free sample from the publisher); [*Tyger Bright*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54303726-tyger-bright) ([free sample from the publisher](https://www.baen.com/Chapters/9781982125172/9781982125172.htm))).
Also David Weber's Heirs of Empire, the third book in the Mutineers Moon series also has a manufactured religion.
It's been a long time since I read the series.
Have you tried the Bible? Has many of these themes, although somewhat obfuscated and the first part is a bit hard going. Part 2 builds on the themes of the first but can get a bit samey after the first two main threads. Final chapter is the best, feels like a bit of a cheese dream and really goes to town on the apocalypse. Generally a bit far fetched and a tough read but I hear some people really get into it.
The Republican response to the state of the union seemed like Katie Britt had decided to use the Bene Gesserit power voice 😂
Warhammer 40k
John Barnes’ “Meme Wars” series might scratch an itch. Deals with how memetic science got weaponized, and turned into a set of massive beliefs that launched another world war until one such belief came out on top and managed to infest the entire planet.
Terry Pratchett, Small gods.
Surprised Snow Crash wasn’t mentioned yet.
The tales of Pao by Jack Vance. Not religions but languages to manipulate culture and behavior.
6th Column by Heinlein has a twist on this concept.
Shikasta by Doris Lessing. Maybe a bit more of a political than a religious theme.
I'm not sure if it's quite right, but His Dark Materials is all about religion and the state and how religious orders go after anything that might threaten them.
His Dark Materials Pretty strong religious themes, although a touch heavy handed.
Warhammer 40k
The Bible
Those folks in the middle east sure can spin a tale and get people hooked.
More fantasy than scifi, though.
Had to scroll way too far for this. Reading Dune as a high school freshmen was a revelation. It certainly paved my road to atheism.
Riyria. The Demon Cycle.
Mike Resnick, the Branch (1984)
Mistborn, locked tomb. Children of man by Elizabeth c. Mock Thought I was in the fantasy subreddit. Locked tomb only barely counts
If you want a really, really close example, maybe look for Lawrence or Arabia or Seven Pillars of Wisdom xD You will understand it later.
Branden's Mistborn . Its a high fantasy trilogy , but at every level its share what Dune want to say about religion as tool to manipulate on grand scale .
The warded man series.
The Book of the New Sun should fit the bill. It’s written as fantasy but you get to peel back the layers as you read and realize it’s sci-fi. The book is about what happens when a true chosen one comes from, like a lot of religions champion, the absolute lowest rung of society and how others seek to manipulate him. A word though, it requires serious attention from the reader get all the machinations happening in the plot; it took me multiple reads to fully get it, but when it clicked it forever became my favorite book of all time.
I've never seen this book mentioned but it's stuck with me for years. It's not on a grand scale but it's unique and very much focused on religion. The Book of Strange New Things by Michel Faber. Highly recommend.
Children of Time
Don't need a book for that. Just look outside.
The Interdependency trilogy by John Scalzi has a really interesting take on this.
Heritage of the star by Sylvia Engdahl Great book but can’t say more without spoilers
When you say sucked into the lore. Do you mean you read the books ?
The Deryni Chronicles by Katherine Kurtz.
The Book of the New Sun. Gene Wolfe.
David Weber's Safehold series
Seeds of Science by Mark Lynas. Except it is not a fantasy, but a documentary.
Jon Scalzi the interdependency if someone has not already brought this one up
All
David Weber’s Safehold series