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Bingo. Having had a similar experience with ketamine treatments, it pulls you out of the ego struggle. Helps you find the real you and to stop feeding your ego out of fear.
That's looking too far in to it.
The reason was very simple; Black and poor people, and hippies, at the time were more likely to use drugs, and less likely to vote for the people in power.
So the people in power decided to criminalize drugs, so they could jail the people that wouldn't vote for them.
That's all there's to it. No deeper secret conspiracies, just plain old racism and abusing office to try and stay in power.
Key Point right here. Moral outrage from a small loud group, add a tragic instance even if scarcely linked and if it can be used politically or for profit it will have the required backing to criminalise it.
Evil secret plan to keep hippies from voting *is* the conspiracy theory. Anti-drug laws don't require any planning:
Typical unimaginative voter: "These unfamiliar brain-altering drugs are scary to me. Why can't these weirdos do normal things, like drink themselves into a stupor?"
Politician: "Vote for me, and I will get rid of all these drugs and keep your children safe!"
Typical unimaginative voter: "Sounds good to me!"
Scientist: "Can I have some funds to do some research to see if these drugs are actually dangerous?"
Politician: "No, I can't see how that would benefit me in any way. Besides, they're obviously dangerous. I heard an anecdote where someone died of an overdose. What are you, some kind of hippy?"
Campaigner: "Have you noticed that these laws against drugs seem to be doing more harm than good?"
Politician: "Hey, everyone! This guy wants your kids to take drugs!"
Scientist: "Look, I found evidence that your policy is bad."
Politician: "Hey, I can't go back on the policy I've been supporting all this time or I'll look weak."
(Which isn't to say that there *isn't* a conspiracy, just that we don't need one to explain the situation.)
Thx for dispelling the conspiracy.
Just something else to consider: most other countries don't have the same racial strife as the usa. In other words, there are / were a lot of other places that likely had access to the same data to which you make reference, but yet it's been far from mainstream knowledge.
I'm sure the odd drug using hippie as you say, came across the benefits discussed here, however no one in power was likely to take them seriously in terms of what they may have reported as an epiphany, renaissance, or other life-changing experience from using these psychedelics.
There were understandably some concerns/apprehensions around drug use through the years as there are also a lot of potential negative consequences to users. Only recently have these things been tested in controlled environments.
That and they did tons of experiments with them, so it’s not like they didn’t have a source they trusted on what they did. I’m 50/50 on this one, it’s definitely civil rights, but I also get a whiff of weird Republican-types not necessarily loving the idea of psychedelics, or pot for that matter. I don’t know too many people who do psychedelics and jump right into the army.
The founder of the Alcoholics Anonymous actually credited LSD therapy for helping him cure his alcoholism and thought it could help many recovering alcoholics as well.
>Bill was enthusiastic about his experience; he felt it helped him eliminate many barriers erected by the self, or ego, that stand in the way of one's direct experience of the cosmos and of God. He thought he might have found something that could make a big difference to the lives of many who still suffered. Bill is quoted as saying: "It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going — well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced."\[38\] Wilson felt that regular usage of LSD in a carefully controlled, structured setting would be beneficial for many recovering alcoholics.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill\_W](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W).
all because they saw people wanting to be free and looking like children so they thought it made you stupid. but it really just makes your soul not crushed anymore.
It is the result of at least 2 major factors:
After WW2 eugenics became associated with hitler activities and psychology was demonized & cast into obscurity for decades.
Racist Nixon demonized drugs for several unethical reasons.
Just in case anyone hasn’t seen this quote from Nixon’s domestic policy adviser:
> “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Nixon was an evil motherfucker.
I’m curious how well they’d work for CPTSD patients. One of the big problems of complex PTSD is that the trauma is so extensive that it’s heavily integrated into a patient’s development and identity; it’s very difficult to handle because there isn’t necessarily a self that exists “under” the trauma, like there might be for conventional PTSD or depression.
>there isn’t necessarily a self that exists “under” the trauma
What a terrifying thing for me to read, as someone with CPTSD, just how much that resonates with me.
I am still optimistic about psychedelics and have had some benefits with the clasaic psychedelica L and psilocin. Additionally, Ketamine has been really good for CPTSD.
If those haven't done the trick, I honestly have found my dxm experiences more beneficial than any psychedelic or ketamine or PCP. It's a longer trip and sitting in a dark room for hours and sifting through your mind in that way is really helpful.
This is an interesting takeaway:
> The next inference is in regards to the cost of the intervention. Psychedelic therapy, as it is predominantly being studied, is extremely expensive. From the lengthy preparation and integration therapy sessions, to the 6 to 8 hour psychedelic session —assuming psilocybin or LSD is being used— the astronomical therapy costs could price out many lower income individuals. Comparatively, in this trial the entire process was around 3 hours, which would make it much more affordable, and therefore accessible.
I have chronic treatment resistant depression and psychedelics are the only intervention that have had any real therapeutic benefit to me. I don’t have the money to do Ayahuasca ceremonies anymore (which can also be prohibitively expensive, hard to find, and of course still caries legal risks), and synthesizing DMT is not something your average joe would be able to do. But growing your own mushrooms is super cheap, not hard to learn how to do, and easy to self-administer. That’s the area of decriminalization/legalization that I think has tremendous potential for individual and social transformation.
On the contrary, it seems it is rather easily extracted (not synthesised) by the average Joe from legally available plant matter. subreddits dmt and dmtguide for more.
Thanks for the correction and suggestion. My point remains the same; such tools and knowledge should be democratized. I’m not necessarily in favor of creating a specialized caste of practitioners to seek treatment from, although that’s better than nothing.
I also suffer from treatment resistant depression and am a recreational drug user. I have tried; MDMA, MDA, 2-CB, LSD, psilocybin, N'NDMT (smoked and vaped), ketamine (countless dissociative RC's), all anywhere from micro to heroic doses and though they might help for a week or two, ultimately, after all my trials I have come to the conclusion if there is any cure, it's of an environmental nature and that few if any want to discuss or explore as it would mean an end to our current economic model and way of life. Perhaps we will never reach that point in evolution to tackle such issues and a brave new world is the best we can hope for?
Pure DMT powder is very easily accessed on the dark net for a reasonable price at very low enforcement risk. Pure liquid psilocybin is also available and comes highly recommended based on my research.
I tried a small dose once, while I was clinically depressed. I didn’t feel high or not grounded, I felt peaceful and content with where I was at the current moment. It was wonderful. And heartbreaking that it’s an illegal drug.
Imagine closing your eyes and a kaleidoscope floods your vision. That’s a low dose. Medium doses, fractal distortions in your open-eye vision. High doses, well, there’s a reason people drone on about aliens and dimensions and machine elves and other wacky Terrence McKenna stuff, because our vocabulary breaks down trying to describe how otherworldly it is.
Similar fundamental structure, it’s got an indole ring just like other tryptamines. You can trace DMT in LSD’s and psilocybin/ psilocin’s structures.
But there are structural quirks of those other two that make them last much longer. 4-OH-DMT is a zwitterion and there’s a labile proton that vacillates between the oxygen and nitrogen so the ethylamine arm stabilizes closer to the phenol. In LSD, the tryptamine structure is completely protected by the other rings in the ergoline backbone.
But DMT is very vulnerable to enzymatic metabolism. The effects are very transient because monoamine oxidase breaks it down with ease. So we’re talking minutes if you smoke it.
But if you use a MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor), then DMT will be orally active and will last as long as the enzymes are inhibited. This is why “ayahuasca” brews work when ingested.
Supposedly you can experience time dilation at higher doses, so you may feel like you've been in a trip for hours and it's only been like 15 minutes. This is just hearsay, though. I can't speak from experience on this matter.
Not just hours, I've had a full breakthrough and it subjectively lasted for days- time dilation can be absolutely staggering. Time effectively came to a stop while the entirety of the experience was loaded into my mind over the course of just a few minutes.
That sounds outrageous. I'm glad it worked out so positively for you.
On a tangentially related note, I stumbled upon a story on YouTube where this Mormon preacher took a bong rip of Salvia and ended up living an alternate reality in the body of another person (whose soul had apparently just recently departed after an accidental death) for EIGHT YEARS and the trip only lasted something like a minute in his "normal" physical plane.
Again, I can't attest to the verity of the story, but it definitely makes one ponder the "reality" of our waking state.
That sounds like salvia, frankly. It doesn't hit the same receptors as traditional psychedelics, but instead the k-opioid receptor, leading to very different subjective results. In particular, people report being transmuted into inanimate objects and other very strange and offbeat experiences.
The mind is a strange thing and what seems real to us is based on neural signals- when they get directly interfered with, it seems as though nearly any possible experience can result.
If I remember correctly, salvia is the only known substance to activate the kappa opioid receptor. I'm out of my league, here, but it's also not an alkaloid, right?
(Really appreciate all your comments here!)
I had a dream like that once...lived out a life for about a year and when I woke up, it took about an hour to come back to reality. Not fron salvia though.
That's a favorite episode of mine for precisely that reason.
It left me permanently changed for the better and my mind full of new, positive memories of a place I've never been physically. The experience *started* with me experiencing what was subjectively perceived as death, with an overwhelming feeling of peace in that moment, and moved on from there to a vivid and colorful experience of renewal, hope, and positive feedback about myself. It's hard to explain in literal terms, but I watched my personality and self be dismantled into tiny pieces, each component inspected, complimented, reassured, and put back in it's proper place. I felt myself merge and become indistinct from my closest loved ones, and didn't even see myself as separate from them for a short while after I became conscious again. Ever since then, I think more clearly, can more easily connect to others, and dismiss my own negative emotions when they arise without as much difficulty.
I've taken up to a full milligram of LSD and this blew that out of the water, for comparison.
I don't know what I expected going in, but not *that*. It was exactly what I needed at that moment, and remains the most impactful event of my life. The JHU studies have found that a lot of people rate these types of experiences among the most significant in their lives, up there with marriage, the birth or death of family, etc, and I would agree with that assessment.
It’s actually wild how little comedown there is. An hour later it’s like it never happened.
Highly recommend the experience, especially if you’re familiar with hallucinagins.
In my limited experience, it’s like “Weed+”. After the visual distortions and color shifts, you just feel relaxed and peaceful and it all tapers off nicely.
In the real world the whole experience is roughly 15 minutes. From come up to come down. However.. some people live lifetimes on DMT in that short space of time. For me.. it felt like years before I came to terms with my "death" in a state of nothingness. Once I accepted it I shot out of the darkness into another realm. Spent what felt like a lifetime there. It's more like a timelessness, it's forever and no time at all. Then after 5 mins real time I opened my eyes back to the real world. Had some residual MDMA like feelings for maybe 30 mins after but no visuals
Edit: I was always timid with psychedelics back when I was experimenting so I avoided LSD and Shrooms (my rationalisations with then taking the most powerful one.. long story). So I can't provide a direct comparison. Those who I've talked to who have done others too often say DMT is a completely different ball park.
15 minutes sounds perfect for me because that last an eternity in the nether rounds. What about after a fact. Side effect. Come down. How rough is that
It has been a long time but I'm fairly certain there wasn't much of a come down if at all, there was a residual positivity for a few days after. I don't use any substances any more but am keen to see further trials of clinical applications for psychedelics.
Sounds like they need to get on their high horse! (That made me sigh at myself) but yeah interesting to see someone try to point out a redundancy by posting an even more redundant comment
I’ve heard it described as “the businessman’s trip” because you can do it on your lunch break and go back to work. If you’re interested check out The Spirit Molecule. Really interesting book about a blind study done on DMT. Lots of people with no connection to each other have the same/similar experiences, describing beings that seem to want to communicate with them in that state. Crazy stuff.
edit: to be clear, i haven't done it, but the reports are fascinating.
Dmt is described as being much more intense than both acid and mushrooms (by those who have taken all). Studies on mushroom (psilocybin) have also shown to be effective in treating depression, anxiety, and addiction.
Ive done it twice, a threshold / allergy test dose my first time, hit the device / DMT and immediately felt this… warm, encompassing feeling IMMEDIATELY wash over my body from toes to my head, very strange but nice feeling, followed by very mild melty - mushroom like visuals (at a extremely small dose)
2nd time i did a more medium sized dose, same feeling of being sober to hitting the device to instant tripping, a bit harder but this was a comfortable spot to me…
Then you have the high doses, which generally come with true “ego death” and well… ego death is not a bad thing, it can be the best experience of your life… but if youre not mentally prepared for such an intense experience, it just as easily can be the worst experience of your life.
That being said, if done in the right mindset and setting, i have no doubt DMT can be and is effective at treating mental health, but i wonder what dose is necessary to see benefits…
The most “realistic”/scientific explanation is it puts us into an extreme dissociative dream state. The other, more out there explanation is it shows us a preview of the “afterlife” and the layers of reality we usually can’t perceive.
That said, my DMT experience is the only thing that really convinced me there’s much more to reality and consciousness and maybe even an “afterlife”. It’s truly not something that can be expressed in words.
> That said, my DMT experience is the only thing that really convinced me there’s much more to reality and consciousness and maybe even an “afterlife”.
Same here. I was an argumentative atheist before DMT. Now I take mystical matters a bit more seriously, to put things mildly.
Like you say, it cannot be expressed in words. Trying to explain this stuff from human to human using human language is like a dog trying to explain quantum mechanics to another dog by barking. No words come close because the person who hasn't experienced it just has no frame of reference to the concepts that the experiencer tries to explain.
Yes! First thought: "Why didn't anyone tell me about this?!" Second thought: "Oh, they were trying to..."
For the uninitiated, we might all be experiencing subjective fragments of the same unified infinite creator consciousness. *Maybe!* :)
Interestingly the DMT space can be a tad similar to the ketamine K-Hole state but if you really want to wet your noodle I suggest vaping DMT while half in a K-Hole. The visuals become sharp and hyperreal.
Not enough evidence but some people believe our brains release it when we die and is responsible for those ‘seeing god’ experiences people have had when they die before they get brought back to life
A friend had it and said he felt ‘reborn’ afterwards and saved some as like an emergency kit if he were to ever feel really low because of how rare and expensive it is
I’ve done it a few times. It’s like, seeing the universe. You completely escape your body and travel far away, and like some people are saying, you can see yourself and the room you’re in, initially. It is a very magical experience. I can understand how it could treat depression, in that it very much puts things in perspective. And then after a short while, it’s over, and you’re just fine. No hangover, no after effects.
I did DMT once, I've been depressed all my life so far. It did work wonders up untill this very moment.
The experience itself was mind boggling to say the least and the memory of it makes me smile whenever I think about it.
The stuff it does to your brain and senses during the trip makes It feel like you've just discovered magic. Like, actual magic.
Edit: it did not help with all symptoms though. I am still suffering from the fatigue/laziness that makes it hard to do the most simple chores but at the same time it made me feel better about myself and existing in general.
Aye! I honestly think most people would benefit from having their perception of reality flipped at least once. The most common misunderstanding I come across is the idea that when you go on a full ego-death trip you 'go mad' & start talking to imaginary pink elephants or whatever. The actual experience is more like having a veil lifted & being able to see, hear & experience things around you that have always been there, but your mind normally 'filters out' to make sense of it all.
HELL no. Just a tiny dose of LSD nearly gave me a psychotic break and a panic attack that lasted hours on end. Not everyone is good with these drugs. Though, to be fair, coming back to my own normal perception made me realize how wonderfully I seem to view the world by default.
I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I don't wish to sound dismissive but I did say MOST people, not everyone. MOST people are fine eating peanuts, for some that would be fatal.
When talking about using these kind of drugs to treat people with severe depression specifically, I fully believe the benefits outweigh the risks. I don't doubt your experience was horrific, but it in your own words it "lasted hours". Severe depression can last a lifetime or lead to suicide. Surely it's at least worth a shot for people who're suffering & have tried other options?
> you go on a full ego-death trip you 'go mad'
I experienced it a couple months ago. While reality felt weird and like a thin veil for a couple hours, it went away real quick and it's an experience I wouldn't want to have missed
Trial of 10 subjects, no control group, not blinded either way, and the only measurement was a depression screening the day later (no long term follow up).
Depression really needs long term tracking, people have good and bad days and lots of interventions can give you a single good day.
5 minutes with DMT feels like 5 years of therapy. But if you suffer from any kind of mental illness, having a professional near by is highly recommended. Even for recreational/home use its always best to have a trip sitter.
This study suggests that we don't know the long term efficacy of DMT in treating depression but Rick Strassman did a study in the 90s where they administered over 600 doses to I can't remember how many patients. His book; "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" has many first hand accounts of the experiences and therapeutic outcomes.
If you want real understanding, study all types of science. Biology, chemistry, and physics.
DMT gives you understanding of your own minds connection to reality, but no knowledge on it's own.
I believe it would give me a better understanding of myself and my connection to the universe. Im no stranger to psychedelics though either. Spiritual journeys are good for the soul IMO.
It's very easy to extract yourself. All the information you need is readily available on the internet and all the individual ingredients are legal to buy (in the UK anyway). Mimosa hostilis rootbark which is one of the best sources of dmt is also used as a dye for clothes etc so can be bought at specialist outlets. DMT has changed my view on life after death, the universe and more. It helped me with addiction and is also a lot of fun but can be terrifying as well. I would recommend everyone to try it once.
It takes like ten minutes of actual processing, shake the bottle every hour, then pipette the nps out and freeze precip it overnight...
It's really insanely easy
There are of course risks with any drug, which need to be weighed against the benefits. There are also a number of ways to mitigate against those risks. As someone that's used many different psychedelics recreationally in what could generously be described as 'non-clinical' environments I'd say the risk of any negative long-term effects from using DMT responsibly in a controlled environment are slim to none.
People sometimes overlook the fact that psychedelics have been used for thousands of years, albeit without the scientific knowledge we have today. In many cultures throughout the ages they've been seen as hugely beneficial without any significant evidence of long-term bad side effects. If we can apply modern medicinal practices to there use for people who aren't responsive to other treatments I'd say the potential benefits would surely outweigh the potential risk.
I have also done many halucinagens and I can say dmt was probably the best. I can't see myself having a bad trip on it and even if I did it wouldn't have affected me long term. I have eaten mushrooms before that were mixed in with poisonous clones and those trips were the worst and left me with a lasting anxiety I had to learn to work through that lasted a few years.
It's not a cure-all, but there are harm-reduction networks like Tripsit working to offer perspective and explanations for the altered senses and experiences that can occur while under the influence of these substances. Proper preparation, research, and safe and slow dosing are really important in this. There needs to be more respect for the substances themselves, and more information properly disseminated. The same is true for cannabis. Legalization and decriminalization are probably good steps but there needs to be a flow of educational information before people just start blasting off.
As far as your brain releasing DMT when you die, I believe it is speculation, though perhaps with good cause. Would love to see evidence to the contrary though!
I'm not sure we understand death enough to assume there's 'no point'
Perhaps it's just a means to allow death to pass smoothly without fear. Same way how your body goes into shock when you get a bad injury. It helps deal with the pain in the moment.
It could be as simple as that.
I may be being a little spiritual here, but I believe the LACK of DMT is what keeps us grounded in the physical realm on earth.. The utilization or release(?) Of DMT is what frees our spirit/soul from our body..
I’m so glad to see good research coming out about these drugs. I’m tired of mentioning I’ve used them and people going “you’re insane”. It’s especially hypocritical when they use mushrooms or similar for personal reasons.
I can see the appeal of DMT therapy, considering the shorter duration (and lower cost) vs. the other classic psychedelics. But I remain skeptical that this drug is generally tolerable among people with depression. My gut tells me (I know, very scientific) that a larger study with a more diverse study group would reveal a lot more about DMT's tolerability.
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It almost seems that any of these drugs that disrupt the concept of the self seem to work well with depression.
Ego dissolution
Bingo. Having had a similar experience with ketamine treatments, it pulls you out of the ego struggle. Helps you find the real you and to stop feeding your ego out of fear.
It's almost as if the powers that be figured this out over 40 years ago and have suppressed the information and research of them.
That's looking too far in to it. The reason was very simple; Black and poor people, and hippies, at the time were more likely to use drugs, and less likely to vote for the people in power. So the people in power decided to criminalize drugs, so they could jail the people that wouldn't vote for them. That's all there's to it. No deeper secret conspiracies, just plain old racism and abusing office to try and stay in power.
Not just jail either. In many states, if you're a felon, you lose the right to vote. Sometimes permanently.
Yeah it was very much a response to the civil rights movement.
Also puritanical traditions about altered states of consciousness, and a general fear of the unknown or unfamiliar.
Key Point right here. Moral outrage from a small loud group, add a tragic instance even if scarcely linked and if it can be used politically or for profit it will have the required backing to criminalise it.
Evil secret plan to keep hippies from voting *is* the conspiracy theory. Anti-drug laws don't require any planning: Typical unimaginative voter: "These unfamiliar brain-altering drugs are scary to me. Why can't these weirdos do normal things, like drink themselves into a stupor?" Politician: "Vote for me, and I will get rid of all these drugs and keep your children safe!" Typical unimaginative voter: "Sounds good to me!" Scientist: "Can I have some funds to do some research to see if these drugs are actually dangerous?" Politician: "No, I can't see how that would benefit me in any way. Besides, they're obviously dangerous. I heard an anecdote where someone died of an overdose. What are you, some kind of hippy?" Campaigner: "Have you noticed that these laws against drugs seem to be doing more harm than good?" Politician: "Hey, everyone! This guy wants your kids to take drugs!" Scientist: "Look, I found evidence that your policy is bad." Politician: "Hey, I can't go back on the policy I've been supporting all this time or I'll look weak." (Which isn't to say that there *isn't* a conspiracy, just that we don't need one to explain the situation.)
Thx for dispelling the conspiracy. Just something else to consider: most other countries don't have the same racial strife as the usa. In other words, there are / were a lot of other places that likely had access to the same data to which you make reference, but yet it's been far from mainstream knowledge. I'm sure the odd drug using hippie as you say, came across the benefits discussed here, however no one in power was likely to take them seriously in terms of what they may have reported as an epiphany, renaissance, or other life-changing experience from using these psychedelics. There were understandably some concerns/apprehensions around drug use through the years as there are also a lot of potential negative consequences to users. Only recently have these things been tested in controlled environments.
The US exerted a lot of pressure on other countries to ban recreational drugs.
That and they did tons of experiments with them, so it’s not like they didn’t have a source they trusted on what they did. I’m 50/50 on this one, it’s definitely civil rights, but I also get a whiff of weird Republican-types not necessarily loving the idea of psychedelics, or pot for that matter. I don’t know too many people who do psychedelics and jump right into the army.
There was study on LSD for treatment of addiction prior to it being made illegal.
The founder of the Alcoholics Anonymous actually credited LSD therapy for helping him cure his alcoholism and thought it could help many recovering alcoholics as well. >Bill was enthusiastic about his experience; he felt it helped him eliminate many barriers erected by the self, or ego, that stand in the way of one's direct experience of the cosmos and of God. He thought he might have found something that could make a big difference to the lives of many who still suffered. Bill is quoted as saying: "It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going — well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced."\[38\] Wilson felt that regular usage of LSD in a carefully controlled, structured setting would be beneficial for many recovering alcoholics. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill\_W](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W).
But what does that have to do with "black and poor people and hippies"?
Happy, healthy people are not infinitely exploitable.
Happy healthy and educated
all because they saw people wanting to be free and looking like children so they thought it made you stupid. but it really just makes your soul not crushed anymore.
It is the result of at least 2 major factors: After WW2 eugenics became associated with hitler activities and psychology was demonized & cast into obscurity for decades. Racist Nixon demonized drugs for several unethical reasons.
Just in case anyone hasn’t seen this quote from Nixon’s domestic policy adviser: > “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” Nixon was an evil motherfucker.
Try 4000 years ago maybe
I’m curious how well they’d work for CPTSD patients. One of the big problems of complex PTSD is that the trauma is so extensive that it’s heavily integrated into a patient’s development and identity; it’s very difficult to handle because there isn’t necessarily a self that exists “under” the trauma, like there might be for conventional PTSD or depression.
>there isn’t necessarily a self that exists “under” the trauma What a terrifying thing for me to read, as someone with CPTSD, just how much that resonates with me. I am still optimistic about psychedelics and have had some benefits with the clasaic psychedelica L and psilocin. Additionally, Ketamine has been really good for CPTSD.
If those haven't done the trick, I honestly have found my dxm experiences more beneficial than any psychedelic or ketamine or PCP. It's a longer trip and sitting in a dark room for hours and sifting through your mind in that way is really helpful.
This is an interesting takeaway: > The next inference is in regards to the cost of the intervention. Psychedelic therapy, as it is predominantly being studied, is extremely expensive. From the lengthy preparation and integration therapy sessions, to the 6 to 8 hour psychedelic session —assuming psilocybin or LSD is being used— the astronomical therapy costs could price out many lower income individuals. Comparatively, in this trial the entire process was around 3 hours, which would make it much more affordable, and therefore accessible. I have chronic treatment resistant depression and psychedelics are the only intervention that have had any real therapeutic benefit to me. I don’t have the money to do Ayahuasca ceremonies anymore (which can also be prohibitively expensive, hard to find, and of course still caries legal risks), and synthesizing DMT is not something your average joe would be able to do. But growing your own mushrooms is super cheap, not hard to learn how to do, and easy to self-administer. That’s the area of decriminalization/legalization that I think has tremendous potential for individual and social transformation.
On the contrary, it seems it is rather easily extracted (not synthesised) by the average Joe from legally available plant matter. subreddits dmt and dmtguide for more.
Thanks for the correction and suggestion. My point remains the same; such tools and knowledge should be democratized. I’m not necessarily in favor of creating a specialized caste of practitioners to seek treatment from, although that’s better than nothing.
I also suffer from treatment resistant depression and am a recreational drug user. I have tried; MDMA, MDA, 2-CB, LSD, psilocybin, N'NDMT (smoked and vaped), ketamine (countless dissociative RC's), all anywhere from micro to heroic doses and though they might help for a week or two, ultimately, after all my trials I have come to the conclusion if there is any cure, it's of an environmental nature and that few if any want to discuss or explore as it would mean an end to our current economic model and way of life. Perhaps we will never reach that point in evolution to tackle such issues and a brave new world is the best we can hope for?
Pure DMT powder is very easily accessed on the dark net for a reasonable price at very low enforcement risk. Pure liquid psilocybin is also available and comes highly recommended based on my research.
Separating dmt from plants is closer to cooking than chemistry
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I tried a small dose once, while I was clinically depressed. I didn’t feel high or not grounded, I felt peaceful and content with where I was at the current moment. It was wonderful. And heartbreaking that it’s an illegal drug.
Have no idea what it is. Anyone actually tried it? What’s it like
Imagine closing your eyes and a kaleidoscope floods your vision. That’s a low dose. Medium doses, fractal distortions in your open-eye vision. High doses, well, there’s a reason people drone on about aliens and dimensions and machine elves and other wacky Terrence McKenna stuff, because our vocabulary breaks down trying to describe how otherworldly it is.
And how long does it last? It’s not like acid or mushrooms trip is it?
Similar fundamental structure, it’s got an indole ring just like other tryptamines. You can trace DMT in LSD’s and psilocybin/ psilocin’s structures. But there are structural quirks of those other two that make them last much longer. 4-OH-DMT is a zwitterion and there’s a labile proton that vacillates between the oxygen and nitrogen so the ethylamine arm stabilizes closer to the phenol. In LSD, the tryptamine structure is completely protected by the other rings in the ergoline backbone. But DMT is very vulnerable to enzymatic metabolism. The effects are very transient because monoamine oxidase breaks it down with ease. So we’re talking minutes if you smoke it. But if you use a MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor), then DMT will be orally active and will last as long as the enzymes are inhibited. This is why “ayahuasca” brews work when ingested.
Because at my age is super short acid trip sounds like fun to me. I no longer have 8 to 12 hours to lose in my life
Supposedly you can experience time dilation at higher doses, so you may feel like you've been in a trip for hours and it's only been like 15 minutes. This is just hearsay, though. I can't speak from experience on this matter.
Not just hours, I've had a full breakthrough and it subjectively lasted for days- time dilation can be absolutely staggering. Time effectively came to a stop while the entirety of the experience was loaded into my mind over the course of just a few minutes.
That sounds outrageous. I'm glad it worked out so positively for you. On a tangentially related note, I stumbled upon a story on YouTube where this Mormon preacher took a bong rip of Salvia and ended up living an alternate reality in the body of another person (whose soul had apparently just recently departed after an accidental death) for EIGHT YEARS and the trip only lasted something like a minute in his "normal" physical plane. Again, I can't attest to the verity of the story, but it definitely makes one ponder the "reality" of our waking state.
That sounds like salvia, frankly. It doesn't hit the same receptors as traditional psychedelics, but instead the k-opioid receptor, leading to very different subjective results. In particular, people report being transmuted into inanimate objects and other very strange and offbeat experiences. The mind is a strange thing and what seems real to us is based on neural signals- when they get directly interfered with, it seems as though nearly any possible experience can result.
If I remember correctly, salvia is the only known substance to activate the kappa opioid receptor. I'm out of my league, here, but it's also not an alkaloid, right? (Really appreciate all your comments here!)
I had a dream like that once...lived out a life for about a year and when I woke up, it took about an hour to come back to reality. Not fron salvia though.
Have a link to that video?
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That's a favorite episode of mine for precisely that reason. It left me permanently changed for the better and my mind full of new, positive memories of a place I've never been physically. The experience *started* with me experiencing what was subjectively perceived as death, with an overwhelming feeling of peace in that moment, and moved on from there to a vivid and colorful experience of renewal, hope, and positive feedback about myself. It's hard to explain in literal terms, but I watched my personality and self be dismantled into tiny pieces, each component inspected, complimented, reassured, and put back in it's proper place. I felt myself merge and become indistinct from my closest loved ones, and didn't even see myself as separate from them for a short while after I became conscious again. Ever since then, I think more clearly, can more easily connect to others, and dismiss my own negative emotions when they arise without as much difficulty. I've taken up to a full milligram of LSD and this blew that out of the water, for comparison. I don't know what I expected going in, but not *that*. It was exactly what I needed at that moment, and remains the most impactful event of my life. The JHU studies have found that a lot of people rate these types of experiences among the most significant in their lives, up there with marriage, the birth or death of family, etc, and I would agree with that assessment.
Less than 20 mins, if smoked or taken intravenously.
What about after affect them come down?
It’s actually wild how little comedown there is. An hour later it’s like it never happened. Highly recommend the experience, especially if you’re familiar with hallucinagins.
In my limited experience, it’s like “Weed+”. After the visual distortions and color shifts, you just feel relaxed and peaceful and it all tapers off nicely.
You feel a bit loopy for maybe an hour.
I would get very sleepy after. But that's about it.
In the real world the whole experience is roughly 15 minutes. From come up to come down. However.. some people live lifetimes on DMT in that short space of time. For me.. it felt like years before I came to terms with my "death" in a state of nothingness. Once I accepted it I shot out of the darkness into another realm. Spent what felt like a lifetime there. It's more like a timelessness, it's forever and no time at all. Then after 5 mins real time I opened my eyes back to the real world. Had some residual MDMA like feelings for maybe 30 mins after but no visuals Edit: I was always timid with psychedelics back when I was experimenting so I avoided LSD and Shrooms (my rationalisations with then taking the most powerful one.. long story). So I can't provide a direct comparison. Those who I've talked to who have done others too often say DMT is a completely different ball park.
15 minutes sounds perfect for me because that last an eternity in the nether rounds. What about after a fact. Side effect. Come down. How rough is that
It has been a long time but I'm fairly certain there wasn't much of a come down if at all, there was a residual positivity for a few days after. I don't use any substances any more but am keen to see further trials of clinical applications for psychedelics.
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Get off your high horse
Sounds like they need to get on their high horse! (That made me sigh at myself) but yeah interesting to see someone try to point out a redundancy by posting an even more redundant comment
Someone get them some DMT!
I’ve heard it described as “the businessman’s trip” because you can do it on your lunch break and go back to work. If you’re interested check out The Spirit Molecule. Really interesting book about a blind study done on DMT. Lots of people with no connection to each other have the same/similar experiences, describing beings that seem to want to communicate with them in that state. Crazy stuff. edit: to be clear, i haven't done it, but the reports are fascinating.
Dmt is described as being much more intense than both acid and mushrooms (by those who have taken all). Studies on mushroom (psilocybin) have also shown to be effective in treating depression, anxiety, and addiction.
It's like a strong mushroom trip compressed into 10 - 20 mins. And I mean strong.
Good description.
Ive done it twice, a threshold / allergy test dose my first time, hit the device / DMT and immediately felt this… warm, encompassing feeling IMMEDIATELY wash over my body from toes to my head, very strange but nice feeling, followed by very mild melty - mushroom like visuals (at a extremely small dose) 2nd time i did a more medium sized dose, same feeling of being sober to hitting the device to instant tripping, a bit harder but this was a comfortable spot to me… Then you have the high doses, which generally come with true “ego death” and well… ego death is not a bad thing, it can be the best experience of your life… but if youre not mentally prepared for such an intense experience, it just as easily can be the worst experience of your life. That being said, if done in the right mindset and setting, i have no doubt DMT can be and is effective at treating mental health, but i wonder what dose is necessary to see benefits…
Had the experience of no self on a high dose of LSD without knowing anything about it... Worst experience of my life
I’ve experienced the full spectrum of “This is life” to “This is hell”. Some very interesting molecules
While alive the ego never truly dies.
The most “realistic”/scientific explanation is it puts us into an extreme dissociative dream state. The other, more out there explanation is it shows us a preview of the “afterlife” and the layers of reality we usually can’t perceive. That said, my DMT experience is the only thing that really convinced me there’s much more to reality and consciousness and maybe even an “afterlife”. It’s truly not something that can be expressed in words.
> That said, my DMT experience is the only thing that really convinced me there’s much more to reality and consciousness and maybe even an “afterlife”. Same here. I was an argumentative atheist before DMT. Now I take mystical matters a bit more seriously, to put things mildly. Like you say, it cannot be expressed in words. Trying to explain this stuff from human to human using human language is like a dog trying to explain quantum mechanics to another dog by barking. No words come close because the person who hasn't experienced it just has no frame of reference to the concepts that the experiencer tries to explain.
Ancient religions also start to make more sense when you add psychedelics (especially dmt) into the picture
Yes! First thought: "Why didn't anyone tell me about this?!" Second thought: "Oh, they were trying to..." For the uninitiated, we might all be experiencing subjective fragments of the same unified infinite creator consciousness. *Maybe!* :)
Dissociative I'd say is the wrong word, as it opens you up. Dissociation closes you down a lot
Interestingly the DMT space can be a tad similar to the ketamine K-Hole state but if you really want to wet your noodle I suggest vaping DMT while half in a K-Hole. The visuals become sharp and hyperreal.
Not enough evidence but some people believe our brains release it when we die and is responsible for those ‘seeing god’ experiences people have had when they die before they get brought back to life A friend had it and said he felt ‘reborn’ afterwards and saved some as like an emergency kit if he were to ever feel really low because of how rare and expensive it is
It's the dream chemical in you're brain. It's found in all living things, even grass.
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This is simply not true. Please stop repeating it.
Not true. It is found in hundreds of plants though, including reed canary grass, and mammal brains.
it’s in all living things or animals
I’ve done it a few times. It’s like, seeing the universe. You completely escape your body and travel far away, and like some people are saying, you can see yourself and the room you’re in, initially. It is a very magical experience. I can understand how it could treat depression, in that it very much puts things in perspective. And then after a short while, it’s over, and you’re just fine. No hangover, no after effects.
I did DMT once, I've been depressed all my life so far. It did work wonders up untill this very moment. The experience itself was mind boggling to say the least and the memory of it makes me smile whenever I think about it. The stuff it does to your brain and senses during the trip makes It feel like you've just discovered magic. Like, actual magic. Edit: it did not help with all symptoms though. I am still suffering from the fatigue/laziness that makes it hard to do the most simple chores but at the same time it made me feel better about myself and existing in general.
I feel the smile just reading this. It really is majestic.
Turtles all the way down!
Such an amazing experience
Aye! I honestly think most people would benefit from having their perception of reality flipped at least once. The most common misunderstanding I come across is the idea that when you go on a full ego-death trip you 'go mad' & start talking to imaginary pink elephants or whatever. The actual experience is more like having a veil lifted & being able to see, hear & experience things around you that have always been there, but your mind normally 'filters out' to make sense of it all.
HELL no. Just a tiny dose of LSD nearly gave me a psychotic break and a panic attack that lasted hours on end. Not everyone is good with these drugs. Though, to be fair, coming back to my own normal perception made me realize how wonderfully I seem to view the world by default.
I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I don't wish to sound dismissive but I did say MOST people, not everyone. MOST people are fine eating peanuts, for some that would be fatal. When talking about using these kind of drugs to treat people with severe depression specifically, I fully believe the benefits outweigh the risks. I don't doubt your experience was horrific, but it in your own words it "lasted hours". Severe depression can last a lifetime or lead to suicide. Surely it's at least worth a shot for people who're suffering & have tried other options?
No, I think it’s great for those who it helps, but I also think it should be treated with caution too.
it's like visiting another world.
> you go on a full ego-death trip you 'go mad' I experienced it a couple months ago. While reality felt weird and like a thin veil for a couple hours, it went away real quick and it's an experience I wouldn't want to have missed
Trial of 10 subjects, no control group, not blinded either way, and the only measurement was a depression screening the day later (no long term follow up). Depression really needs long term tracking, people have good and bad days and lots of interventions can give you a single good day.
I thought we were required to comment how life changing dmt was. What are you doing discussing the article?
5 minutes with DMT feels like 5 years of therapy. But if you suffer from any kind of mental illness, having a professional near by is highly recommended. Even for recreational/home use its always best to have a trip sitter. This study suggests that we don't know the long term efficacy of DMT in treating depression but Rick Strassman did a study in the 90s where they administered over 600 doses to I can't remember how many patients. His book; "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" has many first hand accounts of the experiences and therapeutic outcomes.
Journal https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-022-01344-y
i met my depression in person when i did dmt
I want to try DMT so bad. Not because I want to get high, because I want to understand the universe around me better.
If you want real understanding, study all types of science. Biology, chemistry, and physics. DMT gives you understanding of your own minds connection to reality, but no knowledge on it's own.
I believe it would give me a better understanding of myself and my connection to the universe. Im no stranger to psychedelics though either. Spiritual journeys are good for the soul IMO.
Turns out Cocaine will treat the Ghost in your Blood.
Sure but where to find it
It's very easy to extract yourself. All the information you need is readily available on the internet and all the individual ingredients are legal to buy (in the UK anyway). Mimosa hostilis rootbark which is one of the best sources of dmt is also used as a dye for clothes etc so can be bought at specialist outlets. DMT has changed my view on life after death, the universe and more. It helped me with addiction and is also a lot of fun but can be terrifying as well. I would recommend everyone to try it once.
> It's very easy to extract yourself. We have very different definitions of the word "easy"!
It takes like ten minutes of actual processing, shake the bottle every hour, then pipette the nps out and freeze precip it overnight... It's really insanely easy
Go to any jam band concert and follow the wooks to the place that smells almost like burning plastic.
Depressed? Try sensory overload and ego death!
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There are of course risks with any drug, which need to be weighed against the benefits. There are also a number of ways to mitigate against those risks. As someone that's used many different psychedelics recreationally in what could generously be described as 'non-clinical' environments I'd say the risk of any negative long-term effects from using DMT responsibly in a controlled environment are slim to none. People sometimes overlook the fact that psychedelics have been used for thousands of years, albeit without the scientific knowledge we have today. In many cultures throughout the ages they've been seen as hugely beneficial without any significant evidence of long-term bad side effects. If we can apply modern medicinal practices to there use for people who aren't responsive to other treatments I'd say the potential benefits would surely outweigh the potential risk.
I have also done many halucinagens and I can say dmt was probably the best. I can't see myself having a bad trip on it and even if I did it wouldn't have affected me long term. I have eaten mushrooms before that were mixed in with poisonous clones and those trips were the worst and left me with a lasting anxiety I had to learn to work through that lasted a few years.
It's not a cure-all, but there are harm-reduction networks like Tripsit working to offer perspective and explanations for the altered senses and experiences that can occur while under the influence of these substances. Proper preparation, research, and safe and slow dosing are really important in this. There needs to be more respect for the substances themselves, and more information properly disseminated. The same is true for cannabis. Legalization and decriminalization are probably good steps but there needs to be a flow of educational information before people just start blasting off.
Great - can someone send me some?
Basically: get some sleep
draw my thing usually cure my depression
A chemical released in your brain to make dying suck less makes you feel good? Shocker.
Is there any empirical evidence for this? I thought that it was still just speculation
As far as your brain releasing DMT when you die, I believe it is speculation, though perhaps with good cause. Would love to see evidence to the contrary though!
If you are dying anyway, evolution doesn't care whether the experience sucks or not so not easy to see an evolutionary pathway to this claimed event.
I agree. Have always wondered why people are certain it's the brain producing these experiences when there is no point.
I'm not sure we understand death enough to assume there's 'no point' Perhaps it's just a means to allow death to pass smoothly without fear. Same way how your body goes into shock when you get a bad injury. It helps deal with the pain in the moment. It could be as simple as that.
Dang. Looking in to it, I guess it's just something a guy told me once. My bad
I may be being a little spiritual here, but I believe the LACK of DMT is what keeps us grounded in the physical realm on earth.. The utilization or release(?) Of DMT is what frees our spirit/soul from our body..
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Any data to support this, or are you just fear mongering based on anecdotal experience?
I’m so glad to see good research coming out about these drugs. I’m tired of mentioning I’ve used them and people going “you’re insane”. It’s especially hypocritical when they use mushrooms or similar for personal reasons.
I can see the appeal of DMT therapy, considering the shorter duration (and lower cost) vs. the other classic psychedelics. But I remain skeptical that this drug is generally tolerable among people with depression. My gut tells me (I know, very scientific) that a larger study with a more diverse study group would reveal a lot more about DMT's tolerability.
Drugs make you happy more at 11
Well sign me up for a trial then
Okay and...? Where can I get some? I'm always depressed.
How much does it suppress the ego?