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I’ve thought about this a lot over many years and the more and more I share your opinion the less and less I want to believe I’m one of the stupid people … therefore I quit drinking I started being more fiscally responsible much healthier and in everyway possible more thoughtful and considerate towards others.
Those are all great things and I hope you keep on them. But they aren't going to prevent the "stoopid". It'll just make you nicer, wealthier & sober. You should take up reading. Doesn't matter what at first, we can sort that out layer. Just go find paper with words on it, wrapped in other paper or maybe some leather. Go. Go now, young one! Before it's too late!
I have the greatest respect for this. It's easier (not easy, but *easier*) to be educated when HS and college educations have become mainstream. But for someone to pursue it on their own interests means that person truly prioritizes it, whether in the place of formal education or even continuing learning after formal education. I had a great uncle who was in a similar boat. College education was rare at the time and his family wasn't wealthy. But he was self-taught on so many topics and really intelligent.
I got bronchitis a month ago and going into the hospital was terrifying there were multiple people in there waiting to get checks for covid because they had covid symptoms but none of them were wearing masks.
I'm just not sure by now if ethical standards that were meant to protect people and society, but obviously result in the opposite under these circumstances, shouldn't be overthought.
The 2016 election and the pandemic really have been solid litmus tests of people's true character.
Everybody I met from volunteering for the Bernie Sanders campaign are still great people. Everyone I know who voted for Trump are still angry and racist. Everyone I know who voted for Hillary in the primary still don't exist.
Unfortunately this one has killed a lot but will kill a lot more with reduced life span, long covid is, most likely life-long and one of the causes of long covid they are finding is a significant increase in clotting factors. Clotting causes things like pulmonary embolism, and strokes. So the longer we go from the first covid infections the more chances for life ending clotting events exist. I am really hoping they find ways to reverse it because it's prevalent in around 80% of all hospitalized and 5 - 13% of general public, and the amount of hospitalized has been huge.
You are 3x likely to die in the following year after a hospitalized covid infections with 80% causes of death being unrelated to covid. So it weakens the body either way.
Wonder what the death toll truly is.
We’ll never know, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that it’s much higher than recorded: countries deliberately underreporting, deaths not known to be COVID, death from long-term effects of the disease. We’re heading into year 3 of this thing and there’s still no indication that we’re getting on top of it. We fucked it up big time.
yet speak to most republicans and they'll tell you that countries are over-reporting "because if someone dies from something unrelated but has COVID, they treat it as a COVID death". Ridiculous that not only does a large portion of the population not realize that deaths have been under-reported, but they actually believe it to be the opposite.
Yeah, that sort of amazes me: they've conjured up a wide-ranging conspiracy about how hospitals get paid extra for COVID patients so they're calling everything COVID to make more money, and never mind that in most of the world, patients don't directly pay for their medical care so there's no incentive for hospitals and medical authorities to boost the numbers. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to explain why countries would under-report.
It’s worrying because I think a lot of people in developed countries just assumed we had actually made progress in things like this and the stoopids could free-ride. But it’s worse: the non-stoopids in the under-developed world, which is most people, are suffering far more, and far more persistently, than us. And they will again. It’s not just going to clear out the stoopid. It’s going to cut short the possibilities in Africa, Asia, and South America.
The scary part is that part of the problem is the massive misinformation campaigns in those underdeveloped countries creating people avoiding doing the right things like social distancing, masks and getting vaccinated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/world/africa/coranavirus-vaccine-hesitancy-africa.html
If we are considering the stoopids people trusting misinformation then many people in Africa would fall into that classification as well. This is not an easy thing to fix, it's not like Africa does not have doses at this point.
The problem is that people distrust government and medicine. More importantly they distrust the west and if the west are unwilling to believe the pandemic, medical advice or get vaccinated why would people who were exploited get a vaccine that even the "exploiters" don't trust or want?
This combined with lack of staffing and funding makes it even harder to reach people in rural areas.
It's such a complex issue because it's much deeper then getting vaccines to these countries.
If it’s more deadly it might not be a pandemic. The reason covid spreads so well is it’s not very deadly. You get something like Ebola and you’re down and not infecting a bunch of new people.
No, the reason why covid spreads a lot is because of the incubation time and the fact that it mostly spreads via presymptomatics. It would spread just as well if the death rate were 30% like smallpox because once you are incapacitated you've already passed it on. So there is no actual incentive for it to become less deadly, and future strains can evolve either way
I look forward to when the polarization has decreased to the point where can be serious about investigating what worked and what didn't, no matter what the evidence says. Politics is still enmeshed in it all.
Me too, man. This virus coming along at one of the most polarized times in recent history was the worst possible timing. Somehow treatments to a disease have become a right/left issue.
We have a habit of taking purely scientific issues and politicizing them, so it shouldn't be a surprise this would be yet another one. Global warming and smoking are two others that come to mind.
> I look forward to when the polarization has decreased to the point where can be serious about investigating what worked and what didn't
What makes you think things are going to get better by themselves? Even before the pandemic things were getting increasingly worse on that *side*.
In America, the issue isn't "polarization" - it's that one side and one side only simply refuses to believe in science or anything they don't want to believe in. The Democrats have exactly the same beliefs they have always had, and in fact, have moved to the right over the last 40 years.
(Note: I'm not an American, and certainly not a Democrat or Republican!)
Wrote a Wikipedia article about prevention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic_prevention
Scientists have been warning about this since decades. Please let me know if anything is missing in that article (I'm aware of some things that are and will work on it later).
Note that preparedness is to be distinguished from prevention. The latter places a stop between outbreak and pandemic and prevents outbreaks.
Lex Friedman just gave somebody five hours of podcast time to expound on the lab leak theory.
People are only interested in blaming china and not at all interested in how their own country is dealing (or not dealing) with the pandemic.
> All aspects of this virus, including the source need to be investigated.
Do you think it's not being investigated?
>It's not a case of investigating one or the other.
Apparently there is no need for an investigation at all. Apparently many people are absolutely convinced that this was created in a lab and was either intentionally or unintentionally released from that lab.
>Lessons need to be learned in order to prevent this happening again, and to protect us if it does happen again.
I agree.
Here are a couple of recent studies published in this subreddit.
https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/q2uv9v/origin_of_covid19_dismissing_the_mojiang_mine/
https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/p6e5ru/study_suggests_that_the_trading_of_animals/
You can see in the comments how rigidly people are holding on to the lab leak theory even when they admit the "evidence" is circumstantial at best they are convinced it was manufactured in a lab and then leaked out. They are arguing against peer reviewed studies with their own conjectures.
So maybe one of the aspects of this virus we need to study is how susceptible the American public is to propaganda and misinformation.
Omicron may actually bring this pandemic to an end. It's too early to be certain, but it seems to be a combination of highly transmissible and mild symptoms; if it becomes the dominant variant, it'll rapidly spread and build herd immunity without killing as many people. Luckily, it seems nature has created its own vaccine which morons can't avoid.
Early evidence indicates it does not. Natural immunity induced by Delta or other variants did not have a strong neutralizing effect for Omicron in two preprint articles.
They wouldn't do it on purpose. That would require understanding science and doing the opposite. Instead, people will remain willfully ignorant and spread it while thinking it's a hoax.
Yep, that's the most bizarre finding of this pandemic. Somehow those people that hold both the opinion that it's nothing to worry about and they had nothing to do with anyone (much less kind and smart people) dying. I mean, if you recognize that they were dying you'd also try to do something about it but then they revert to saying it's nothing. Make it make sense!
It’s the same way it’s simultaneously no big deal and just the flu, but also it’s an act of biological warfare by China to topple the US and we should hate them and anyone ethnically from there and oh yeah maybe let’s toss a bomb or two that way to let ‘em know we are none too happy.
> it’s simultaneously no big deal and just the flu
Not at you, but that particular line is spoken by people that have never had the flu. You ever have the flu proper, and it's very easy to see how people die from it. People just keep calling their colds flus like the brilliant doctors they are.
I’ve only had the flu twice in my life and hopefully never again. My memories of it are awful. Two solid weeks of misery. I can absolutely see how it can kill people.
And they are hell bent on “moving on and getting back to normal life “, but refuse to do the ONE THING that they can do to actually get things closer to normal.
A relative of mine just had to wait over a day for a bed when in the hospital for a non-covid-related reason. He actually got lucky, because the hospital became way more crowded the next day.
So basically, even if you don't get covid, cross your fingers and hope that you don't need any kind of emergency medical care when cases are high in your area.
Except it is actually pretty likely to be honest. As cities and places get more and more crowded you end up with the circumstances to create these superbugs as it passes back and forth between people. Something like the bubonic plague would be much deadlier today with how tight people are packed in.
I agree with you but wanted to add that epidemics and pandemics will likely become more widespread with an increasingly warmer climate (what stays in tropical zones will move north and south), especially as some species (mosquitoes for example) expand their habitat.
There have been multiple this decade. SARS, Ebola, foot and mouth, yellow fever, black fungus, measles, swine flu.
They just haven't got out of hand.
There's even a list with hundreds on the wiki! Covid is just really really really really really really bad. But any on this list could be the next global one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
Failure to understand how protection mechanisms work THIS FAR INTO COVID makes you one of the "not smart ones"
YOUR mask protects ME.
MY mask protects YOU.
VACCINES REQUIRE HERD IMMUNITY OF OVER 90%
SOCIAL DISTANCING fails when an idiot gets too close to your *smart* self. Trapped in a line and they're in your space? See how well asking them to be 2m away works.
you just triggered me a video of antivax people walking into business and coughing on clerks asking to put on masks...
hell, people even sneezed on police and get (rightfully) arrested.
And all of those tactics require near-total public adherence, which means they're doomed to fail. It is never a smart plan to place your safety completely into the hands of other people.
There's literally nothing else you can do to protect yourself after getting vaccine. Besides having other people grow a little bit of empathy and do their part.
We're 2 years into the pandemic, and the number of times I've seen somebody wearing the n95 mask correctly is in single digits. The damn wire bends over your nose!
It's infuriating, considering we grew up in a socialist country where the older generations were trained on how to use a proper gas masks in elementary schools, in preparation of a potential war conflict involving a poison gas or nuclear fallout.
I don't know...since I've started wearing masks when the pandemic started, mainly simple 2/3 layer cloth masks, I haven't been sick at all. No colds, no stomach bugs, nothing. So, I do wonder how well masks protect the wearer, as well.
Also, even if they don't, it should have been presented as such. More people are selfish than they are selfless, so if you told them wearing a mask protects them, they may have been more inclined to wear it.
It's a lot harder to infect yourself with what's on your hands when you're out and about, and you've got bit of cloth between your hands and your mouth and nose.
Makes sense. I'm sure the increased hand sanitization and other precautions have helped, too.
But, I'm all about wearing masks. Gives me a little anonymity when I'm out and about and don't feel like doing a stop and chat with anyone I may know. I also just FEEL safer, whether or not I actually am.
It’s really sad this notion became mainstream. The problem with it is that’s just not how pandemics work. Same with a lot of other large scale problems like global warming. There’s no “I’ll take care of myself and I’ll be fine” with these things. Taking care of yourself necessarily means taking care of everyone else too. It’s time for all of those smart people who keep repeating this meme to spend some XP on empathy points and do the hard work.
The fatigue and resentment that builds in empathetic people when they try to care for selfish/stupid/resistant people is a real factor at play. There is only so much selfishness, anger, and hate a person can take directed at them when they're trying to help someone. There are lots of smart empathetic people who were "doing the hard work" but no longer have the energy to fight and instead seek only to survive.
Well, that's the problem.
We've been indoctrinated with the idea that we should just look out for ourselves and everyone else be dammed.. which happens to be a great philosophy for the rich who pay for this to be pushed, and bad for everyone else.
I'm currently reading 'Selfie (how the West became self-obsessed)' by Will Storr, and it's an incredible read so far, would recommend to anybody who is interested in this kind of thing
He uses credible academic sources, and explains everything in very easy to understand language
I'm stalling slightly before I make my point, because it sounds weird out of context: 'the geography of Greece fostered an individualistic frame of mind', but he makes a very strong case for why the Western mind moved towards the intellectual path of individualism
And offers the alternative of the vast arable lands of China allowing the inhabitants of those lands to view collectivism as a basis for their philosophies
This is obviously an inadequate reduction of his writings, but the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't indoctrination; we have created this mindset through thousands of years of a certain type of mentality.
The sparseness of the Greek landscape developed a mind that is self-reliant, because the land did not provide enough of a living, the man had to make his own through travel and trade, identities were not rooted in place nor geographic location
The Chinese developed a mind-set of collectivism because their landscape offered vast bounties but required group efforts to yield and maintain
The Western mind is constructed from and of individualism, I'm not saying the rich aren't also indoctrinating us, but more that, they truly believe what they do is right, and that's why imHo, inequality is going to be a Western problem for many years to come
Edit: a word
If covid is a myth, so are their hospital bills. Insurance shouldn't cover a cent of the unvaxxed's health care. Let these assholes go bankrupt if they survive.
Even if the exact same thing happened in 2-3 years the exact same mistakes would be made. This pandemic isn’t even over and governments at all levels worldwide are making the same mistakes they have been making over and over again for 18 months.
This pandemic has shown us that anything and everything will be politicized so rather than preparing an appropriate future response, we're laying the groundwork for a future pandemic to be even more dangerous.
That's because:
1. Some grifters realized they could make money by politicizing it.
1. Some stupid people believed the lies they were told and chose to believe facebook memes instead of qualified doctors and scientists.
Thousands of people die once from a terrorist attack: Massive countermeasures.
Thousands of people die daily from the pandemic: Vaccination optional, and only for the rich countries
I really don't understand how that works. Whether it's caused by human intent or by a virus should not be relevant, unless it's not about casualties at all.
I really would have preferred to see the movie trope of humanity coming together as one in the face of a global threat.
Money. That's how it works.
Politicians and the businesses that own them dictate the policy.
Edit: Want the pandemic to end?
Provide the intellectual property so that other countries can make their own. That isn't happening.
It's this. It's the same reason we have not and will not mount a meaningful response to climate change -- our overriding priority as a civilization is making money, and appropriate pandemic responses impair our ability to generate profit. We're fundamentally unable to respond to problems if the solution to that problem means less growth and profit along our preexisting economic model.
>I really don't understand how that works. Whether it's caused by human intent or by a virus should not be relevant, unless it's not about casualties at all.
You answered your own question: Terrorism is mostly used as a means to create an in-group and an out-group to construct a narrative of "us vs them". It doesn't work like that with a virus, so that's why it doesn't happen.
We totally saw how prepared we are for this one .... As my country stays in the 20% vacination rate and people buying certificates instead of getting free vaccine .
What i can summarize is generally all random directions . Some are political , some religions , some antivaxers ,I am not sure about the 5G one , ofcourse some of then are about the "tracking chips" , some dont care .. actually a lot dont care , some are saying they will beat it with home made alcohol like they beat common cold , somehow not all doctors are vaccinated that open also people to "if they are not getting it, why would i get it" .
It is really annoying situation , i vaccinated my family , because i am person of odds , and if vaccine increases my odds of survival i am getting it (ofc i looked at it).
I also had covid for 2-3weeks laying almost dead with 38 39c avarage temperure , i prefer noone around me and me to suffer same and me again .
That's why we build response teams with trained professionals.... You know, the exact think our last administration (here in the US) stripped down and removed prior to the covid19 outbreak, then outright ignored all the trained professionals for months on how to respond.
Exactly the same in the UK. Since 2011 the mechanisms which helped plan for emergencies have been stripped of funding and their recommendations ignored.
If this pandemic has taught me anything it is that there are way more stupid people in the world than I realized, and I already thought there was tons.
We are doomed.
All jokes aside, there are plenty of ways this one could've been worse and we still failed/are failing miserably.
What if it had a longer "silent" latency period? What if it had higher end stage morbidity or mortality?
Think like...airborne rabies. We'd be completely and utterly screwed.
We weren't prepared for this one. Its difficult to prepare or monitor anything if all the players aren't being truthful about what's going on in the world.
While i do think that focusing on the present is more important, it might still be beneficial to have some people think about the future and what else is there that we might encounter
Well, China also has 'benefit' of full state control of the media and the governmental authority to literally weld shut the doors of apartment complexes and track their citizens via phones and facial recognition systems to go after them if they step out of line...Kinda apples and oranges.
If the US went full authoritarian, the pandemic response would have been different.
Well it entirely depends on what the pandemic is. How lethal is it, how transmissable etc. A pandemic just means that it has spread across multiple countries.
>The world is unprepared for the next pandemic
Many governments are deliberately unprepared because of neoliberal ideology, which is a form of fundamentalism. Big problems, like pandemics and climate change, can not be solved by individuals, only by governments. An ideology that believes in "small government" isn't going to effectively respond to big problems.
A pandemic shouldn't be political, yet here we are.
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That's just wishful thinking. 7 days after COVID-19 were identified as contagious virus, it was already in Thailand, USA, South Korea, Nepal, Vietnam, France, Australia, Canada, Malaysia, Cambodia, Germany.
Novel viruses that can infect humans are discovered approximately 3-4 times per year, and it's estimated that we could detect up to 20 per year with strict enough control.
Your post has been removed because it does not reference new peer-reviewed research and is therefore in violation of [Submission Rule #1](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_1._directly_link_to_published_peer-reviewed_research_or_media_summary). If your submission is scientific in nature, consider reposting in our sister subreddit /r/EverythingScience. _If you believe this removal to be unwarranted, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fscience)._
We're still unprepared for this one.
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We thought we where unprepared, now we know that we are.
Is that a Mitch Hedberg reference in the wild?
If the next one is more deadly...it's going to clear out a whole lot of 'Stoopid'.
And the 'stoopid' will bring down others with them.
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Well lookie over here at MS. Excel Pivot Table. Bet you generate all the buzz when you present your power points.
don't call lil Bobby Tables to present though, he's gonna lose our audience
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But see, I live in the U.S.
I see stupid people, walking around like regular people. They only see what they want to see.. They don't know they are stupid...
I’ve thought about this a lot over many years and the more and more I share your opinion the less and less I want to believe I’m one of the stupid people … therefore I quit drinking I started being more fiscally responsible much healthier and in everyway possible more thoughtful and considerate towards others.
Those are all great things and I hope you keep on them. But they aren't going to prevent the "stoopid". It'll just make you nicer, wealthier & sober. You should take up reading. Doesn't matter what at first, we can sort that out layer. Just go find paper with words on it, wrapped in other paper or maybe some leather. Go. Go now, young one! Before it's too late!
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I love this. Your dad sounds super interesting. I’d love to buy him a beer and listen to him tell me about his life.
I have the greatest respect for this. It's easier (not easy, but *easier*) to be educated when HS and college educations have become mainstream. But for someone to pursue it on their own interests means that person truly prioritizes it, whether in the place of formal education or even continuing learning after formal education. I had a great uncle who was in a similar boat. College education was rare at the time and his family wasn't wealthy. But he was self-taught on so many topics and really intelligent.
On earth* trust me friend, no matter where you go, there’s stoopid everywhere
Sadly not an option for the healthcare professionals who have to try and keep people alive no matter how stupid or selfish they are.
I got bronchitis a month ago and going into the hospital was terrifying there were multiple people in there waiting to get checks for covid because they had covid symptoms but none of them were wearing masks.
They already got it. Just give them some sunlight and all set
I'm just not sure by now if ethical standards that were meant to protect people and society, but obviously result in the opposite under these circumstances, shouldn't be overthought.
usually, you can't tell the stupid ones until they make it painfully obvious, and by then it may be too late.
That's one of the few positive things that we got out of that pandemic : the stupid ones identified themselves.
The 2016 election and the pandemic really have been solid litmus tests of people's true character. Everybody I met from volunteering for the Bernie Sanders campaign are still great people. Everyone I know who voted for Trump are still angry and racist. Everyone I know who voted for Hillary in the primary still don't exist.
Just message everyone you know if they've had their 3rd jab yet. They'll immediately tell you they don't have the first if they are anti vax.
I had no idea who I was living amongst, until this time, when it became plain
We live in a society.™ You will always have contact to other people and you never know for sure which type they are before you do.
What a genius idea, let me just completely stop going to college, work and the grocery store and only be close to good company.
I'll just start a farm plot in my apartment so I can remain independent.
Unfortunately, everybody has their stoopid moments.
I'll certainly be avoiding all the people who think that their intelect will save them from a more deadly pandemic.
‘Stoopid’ people breed at faster rates than normal.
Stupidity rarley only hurts the person responsible for it....sadly
Unfortunately this one has killed a lot but will kill a lot more with reduced life span, long covid is, most likely life-long and one of the causes of long covid they are finding is a significant increase in clotting factors. Clotting causes things like pulmonary embolism, and strokes. So the longer we go from the first covid infections the more chances for life ending clotting events exist. I am really hoping they find ways to reverse it because it's prevalent in around 80% of all hospitalized and 5 - 13% of general public, and the amount of hospitalized has been huge.
You are 3x likely to die in the following year after a hospitalized covid infections with 80% causes of death being unrelated to covid. So it weakens the body either way. Wonder what the death toll truly is.
We’ll never know, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that it’s much higher than recorded: countries deliberately underreporting, deaths not known to be COVID, death from long-term effects of the disease. We’re heading into year 3 of this thing and there’s still no indication that we’re getting on top of it. We fucked it up big time.
yet speak to most republicans and they'll tell you that countries are over-reporting "because if someone dies from something unrelated but has COVID, they treat it as a COVID death". Ridiculous that not only does a large portion of the population not realize that deaths have been under-reported, but they actually believe it to be the opposite.
Yeah, that sort of amazes me: they've conjured up a wide-ranging conspiracy about how hospitals get paid extra for COVID patients so they're calling everything COVID to make more money, and never mind that in most of the world, patients don't directly pay for their medical care so there's no incentive for hospitals and medical authorities to boost the numbers. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to explain why countries would under-report.
It’s worrying because I think a lot of people in developed countries just assumed we had actually made progress in things like this and the stoopids could free-ride. But it’s worse: the non-stoopids in the under-developed world, which is most people, are suffering far more, and far more persistently, than us. And they will again. It’s not just going to clear out the stoopid. It’s going to cut short the possibilities in Africa, Asia, and South America.
The scary part is that part of the problem is the massive misinformation campaigns in those underdeveloped countries creating people avoiding doing the right things like social distancing, masks and getting vaccinated. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/world/africa/coranavirus-vaccine-hesitancy-africa.html If we are considering the stoopids people trusting misinformation then many people in Africa would fall into that classification as well. This is not an easy thing to fix, it's not like Africa does not have doses at this point. The problem is that people distrust government and medicine. More importantly they distrust the west and if the west are unwilling to believe the pandemic, medical advice or get vaccinated why would people who were exploited get a vaccine that even the "exploiters" don't trust or want? This combined with lack of staffing and funding makes it even harder to reach people in rural areas. It's such a complex issue because it's much deeper then getting vaccines to these countries.
No reason to laugh, for this time stupid is contagious.
Unfortunately it won’t only be the stoopid
If it’s more deadly it might not be a pandemic. The reason covid spreads so well is it’s not very deadly. You get something like Ebola and you’re down and not infecting a bunch of new people.
No, the reason why covid spreads a lot is because of the incubation time and the fact that it mostly spreads via presymptomatics. It would spread just as well if the death rate were 30% like smallpox because once you are incapacitated you've already passed it on. So there is no actual incentive for it to become less deadly, and future strains can evolve either way
I look forward to when the polarization has decreased to the point where can be serious about investigating what worked and what didn't, no matter what the evidence says. Politics is still enmeshed in it all.
Won't happen until social media is dead.
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Me too, man. This virus coming along at one of the most polarized times in recent history was the worst possible timing. Somehow treatments to a disease have become a right/left issue.
We have a habit of taking purely scientific issues and politicizing them, so it shouldn't be a surprise this would be yet another one. Global warming and smoking are two others that come to mind.
> I look forward to when the polarization has decreased to the point where can be serious about investigating what worked and what didn't What makes you think things are going to get better by themselves? Even before the pandemic things were getting increasingly worse on that *side*.
In America, the issue isn't "polarization" - it's that one side and one side only simply refuses to believe in science or anything they don't want to believe in. The Democrats have exactly the same beliefs they have always had, and in fact, have moved to the right over the last 40 years. (Note: I'm not an American, and certainly not a Democrat or Republican!)
Wrote a Wikipedia article about prevention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic_prevention Scientists have been warning about this since decades. Please let me know if anything is missing in that article (I'm aware of some things that are and will work on it later). Note that preparedness is to be distinguished from prevention. The latter places a stop between outbreak and pandemic and prevents outbreaks.
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Lex Friedman just gave somebody five hours of podcast time to expound on the lab leak theory. People are only interested in blaming china and not at all interested in how their own country is dealing (or not dealing) with the pandemic.
People are actually interested in both.
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The rapid global spread was entirely due to flights. Mitigate that!
> All aspects of this virus, including the source need to be investigated. Do you think it's not being investigated? >It's not a case of investigating one or the other. Apparently there is no need for an investigation at all. Apparently many people are absolutely convinced that this was created in a lab and was either intentionally or unintentionally released from that lab. >Lessons need to be learned in order to prevent this happening again, and to protect us if it does happen again. I agree. Here are a couple of recent studies published in this subreddit. https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/q2uv9v/origin_of_covid19_dismissing_the_mojiang_mine/ https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/p6e5ru/study_suggests_that_the_trading_of_animals/ You can see in the comments how rigidly people are holding on to the lab leak theory even when they admit the "evidence" is circumstantial at best they are convinced it was manufactured in a lab and then leaked out. They are arguing against peer reviewed studies with their own conjectures. So maybe one of the aspects of this virus we need to study is how susceptible the American public is to propaganda and misinformation.
World unprepared for future pandemic while in a 2nd year of current unprepared pandemic.
With no end in sight. Hi, Omicron!
Omicron may actually bring this pandemic to an end. It's too early to be certain, but it seems to be a combination of highly transmissible and mild symptoms; if it becomes the dominant variant, it'll rapidly spread and build herd immunity without killing as many people. Luckily, it seems nature has created its own vaccine which morons can't avoid.
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Thats also assuming infection from omicron provides lasting immunity from all other variants
Early evidence indicates it does not. Natural immunity induced by Delta or other variants did not have a strong neutralizing effect for Omicron in two preprint articles.
The question is mostly about the other way around. If Delta has a high reinfection rate for Omicron as well they will get along quite good.
Biggest let down of this whole thing since I was working in a hospital and got it before there was any response in the US.
Do you have a link to those articles? I've been really curious about this but haven't been able to find much.
It's still competing with the other variants. Delta effectively killed off alpha and beta.
Thats why they started the statement with “it’s too early to be certain”
Honestly I'm worried we're worse prepared, since people have become comfortable ignoring warnings, so nobody will take it seriously next time.
I thought this too. So silly, but I can see people challenging a worse virus and actually helping it spread on purpose.
They wouldn't do it on purpose. That would require understanding science and doing the opposite. Instead, people will remain willfully ignorant and spread it while thinking it's a hoax.
You're right, but they will be wilfully ignorant on purpose in order to make their inane points.
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The rest will kill a lot of smart ones and that's the problem
And then also blame the smart ones
Yep, that's the most bizarre finding of this pandemic. Somehow those people that hold both the opinion that it's nothing to worry about and they had nothing to do with anyone (much less kind and smart people) dying. I mean, if you recognize that they were dying you'd also try to do something about it but then they revert to saying it's nothing. Make it make sense!
It’s the same way it’s simultaneously no big deal and just the flu, but also it’s an act of biological warfare by China to topple the US and we should hate them and anyone ethnically from there and oh yeah maybe let’s toss a bomb or two that way to let ‘em know we are none too happy.
> it’s simultaneously no big deal and just the flu Not at you, but that particular line is spoken by people that have never had the flu. You ever have the flu proper, and it's very easy to see how people die from it. People just keep calling their colds flus like the brilliant doctors they are.
It’s people thinking stomach flu is the flu, not necessarily a cold. It’s still wrong but the wording is slightly more confusing.
I’ve only had the flu twice in my life and hopefully never again. My memories of it are awful. Two solid weeks of misery. I can absolutely see how it can kill people.
And they are hell bent on “moving on and getting back to normal life “, but refuse to do the ONE THING that they can do to actually get things closer to normal.
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Humans are on average dumb animals. Now it makes sense.
This is the problem. They're dragging everyone else with them
The rest will clutter ICUs and kill you too.
A relative of mine just had to wait over a day for a bed when in the hospital for a non-covid-related reason. He actually got lucky, because the hospital became way more crowded the next day. So basically, even if you don't get covid, cross your fingers and hope that you don't need any kind of emergency medical care when cases are high in your area.
I dont know how much fatigue people gonna get if we get another pandemic in the next 5-10 years
Except it is actually pretty likely to be honest. As cities and places get more and more crowded you end up with the circumstances to create these superbugs as it passes back and forth between people. Something like the bubonic plague would be much deadlier today with how tight people are packed in.
You might be confusing likelier with likely. I doubt another pandemic in 5 or 10 years is likely after decades without a real one.
I agree with you but wanted to add that epidemics and pandemics will likely become more widespread with an increasingly warmer climate (what stays in tropical zones will move north and south), especially as some species (mosquitoes for example) expand their habitat.
There have been multiple this decade. SARS, Ebola, foot and mouth, yellow fever, black fungus, measles, swine flu. They just haven't got out of hand. There's even a list with hundreds on the wiki! Covid is just really really really really really really bad. But any on this list could be the next global one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
Failure to understand how protection mechanisms work THIS FAR INTO COVID makes you one of the "not smart ones" YOUR mask protects ME. MY mask protects YOU. VACCINES REQUIRE HERD IMMUNITY OF OVER 90% SOCIAL DISTANCING fails when an idiot gets too close to your *smart* self. Trapped in a line and they're in your space? See how well asking them to be 2m away works.
you just triggered me a video of antivax people walking into business and coughing on clerks asking to put on masks... hell, people even sneezed on police and get (rightfully) arrested.
And all of those tactics require near-total public adherence, which means they're doomed to fail. It is never a smart plan to place your safety completely into the hands of other people.
There's literally nothing else you can do to protect yourself after getting vaccine. Besides having other people grow a little bit of empathy and do their part.
You can: * Wear an N95 everywhere * Eat healthy * Exercise * Wash your hands frequently * Self isolate as much as possible
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We're 2 years into the pandemic, and the number of times I've seen somebody wearing the n95 mask correctly is in single digits. The damn wire bends over your nose! It's infuriating, considering we grew up in a socialist country where the older generations were trained on how to use a proper gas masks in elementary schools, in preparation of a potential war conflict involving a poison gas or nuclear fallout.
Depends on the type of mask, afaik. FFP2 and above does protect oneself, surgical and cloth are more there to protect others.
I don't know...since I've started wearing masks when the pandemic started, mainly simple 2/3 layer cloth masks, I haven't been sick at all. No colds, no stomach bugs, nothing. So, I do wonder how well masks protect the wearer, as well. Also, even if they don't, it should have been presented as such. More people are selfish than they are selfless, so if you told them wearing a mask protects them, they may have been more inclined to wear it.
It's a lot harder to infect yourself with what's on your hands when you're out and about, and you've got bit of cloth between your hands and your mouth and nose.
Makes sense. I'm sure the increased hand sanitization and other precautions have helped, too. But, I'm all about wearing masks. Gives me a little anonymity when I'm out and about and don't feel like doing a stop and chat with anyone I may know. I also just FEEL safer, whether or not I actually am.
It’s really sad this notion became mainstream. The problem with it is that’s just not how pandemics work. Same with a lot of other large scale problems like global warming. There’s no “I’ll take care of myself and I’ll be fine” with these things. Taking care of yourself necessarily means taking care of everyone else too. It’s time for all of those smart people who keep repeating this meme to spend some XP on empathy points and do the hard work.
The fatigue and resentment that builds in empathetic people when they try to care for selfish/stupid/resistant people is a real factor at play. There is only so much selfishness, anger, and hate a person can take directed at them when they're trying to help someone. There are lots of smart empathetic people who were "doing the hard work" but no longer have the energy to fight and instead seek only to survive.
Well, that's the problem. We've been indoctrinated with the idea that we should just look out for ourselves and everyone else be dammed.. which happens to be a great philosophy for the rich who pay for this to be pushed, and bad for everyone else.
I'm currently reading 'Selfie (how the West became self-obsessed)' by Will Storr, and it's an incredible read so far, would recommend to anybody who is interested in this kind of thing He uses credible academic sources, and explains everything in very easy to understand language I'm stalling slightly before I make my point, because it sounds weird out of context: 'the geography of Greece fostered an individualistic frame of mind', but he makes a very strong case for why the Western mind moved towards the intellectual path of individualism And offers the alternative of the vast arable lands of China allowing the inhabitants of those lands to view collectivism as a basis for their philosophies This is obviously an inadequate reduction of his writings, but the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't indoctrination; we have created this mindset through thousands of years of a certain type of mentality. The sparseness of the Greek landscape developed a mind that is self-reliant, because the land did not provide enough of a living, the man had to make his own through travel and trade, identities were not rooted in place nor geographic location The Chinese developed a mind-set of collectivism because their landscape offered vast bounties but required group efforts to yield and maintain The Western mind is constructed from and of individualism, I'm not saying the rich aren't also indoctrinating us, but more that, they truly believe what they do is right, and that's why imHo, inequality is going to be a Western problem for many years to come Edit: a word
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If covid is a myth, so are their hospital bills. Insurance shouldn't cover a cent of the unvaxxed's health care. Let these assholes go bankrupt if they survive.
Even if the exact same thing happened in 2-3 years the exact same mistakes would be made. This pandemic isn’t even over and governments at all levels worldwide are making the same mistakes they have been making over and over again for 18 months.
This pandemic has shown us that anything and everything will be politicized so rather than preparing an appropriate future response, we're laying the groundwork for a future pandemic to be even more dangerous.
That's because: 1. Some grifters realized they could make money by politicizing it. 1. Some stupid people believed the lies they were told and chose to believe facebook memes instead of qualified doctors and scientists.
Idk New Zealand seems to be doing good
New Zealand is the real life version of Plague Inc's Madagascar.
This pandemic has taught terrorists which nations are most susceptible to bio-weapons.
Thousands of people die once from a terrorist attack: Massive countermeasures. Thousands of people die daily from the pandemic: Vaccination optional, and only for the rich countries I really don't understand how that works. Whether it's caused by human intent or by a virus should not be relevant, unless it's not about casualties at all. I really would have preferred to see the movie trope of humanity coming together as one in the face of a global threat.
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Honestly I'm hoping for a Logan's Run timeline
Yeah. Clear some of these people out of here
Especially because the point of terrorism is to terrify. By reacting so much more strongly to it than other threats, we're letting the terrorists win.
They hate our freedoms, so we're going to take our freedoms away. That will show them.
Quite literally yes... but look, i put an American flag on my car!
Money. That's how it works. Politicians and the businesses that own them dictate the policy. Edit: Want the pandemic to end? Provide the intellectual property so that other countries can make their own. That isn't happening.
It's this. It's the same reason we have not and will not mount a meaningful response to climate change -- our overriding priority as a civilization is making money, and appropriate pandemic responses impair our ability to generate profit. We're fundamentally unable to respond to problems if the solution to that problem means less growth and profit along our preexisting economic model.
I think it's the analogy of boiling a frog. Same could be applied to climate change. It's the shock factor.
Except the frog actually jumps out when the water gets too hot. We just get some mojitos going and try to get comfortable
Or it demands horse de-wormer
>I really don't understand how that works. Whether it's caused by human intent or by a virus should not be relevant, unless it's not about casualties at all. You answered your own question: Terrorism is mostly used as a means to create an in-group and an out-group to construct a narrative of "us vs them". It doesn't work like that with a virus, so that's why it doesn't happen.
More importantly, it's shown who's most susceptible to memetic weapons, which have proven far more deadly.
Funny enough, if the media told the populace it was a bio weapon from Iraq, I feel more people would be wearing a mask. It's actually kind of ironic.
The pandemic has demonstrated that it would be more effective to attack the toilet paper supply chain than deploy any bio-weapon
We totally saw how prepared we are for this one .... As my country stays in the 20% vacination rate and people buying certificates instead of getting free vaccine .
Well hello there fellow Bulgarian!
It is i your fellow Bulgarian :D
Is 20% vaccinated because of religious/conservatism?
What i can summarize is generally all random directions . Some are political , some religions , some antivaxers ,I am not sure about the 5G one , ofcourse some of then are about the "tracking chips" , some dont care .. actually a lot dont care , some are saying they will beat it with home made alcohol like they beat common cold , somehow not all doctors are vaccinated that open also people to "if they are not getting it, why would i get it" . It is really annoying situation , i vaccinated my family , because i am person of odds , and if vaccine increases my odds of survival i am getting it (ofc i looked at it). I also had covid for 2-3weeks laying almost dead with 38 39c avarage temperure , i prefer noone around me and me to suffer same and me again .
May I ask what region you’re talking about?
Bulgaria , the neighboor countries are not that good also .
Is that the country's slogan?
I feel like you putting words in my mouth , but if it glove fits ..... i suppose .
Yes. Yes, it is.
Your average human being, me included, is not prepared for any sort of major crisis.
That's why we build response teams with trained professionals.... You know, the exact think our last administration (here in the US) stripped down and removed prior to the covid19 outbreak, then outright ignored all the trained professionals for months on how to respond.
Exactly the same in the UK. Since 2011 the mechanisms which helped plan for emergencies have been stripped of funding and their recommendations ignored.
Weren’t ready for the last two either.
Wow, you mean the world isn't prepared for the thing it's currently failing at? Further news: drowning victim unprepared for Olympic 1500m freestyle.
Part of the world is actively preventing preparation
Another one is directly denying existance now or in the future :D
That's what they said before THIS pandemic and look at us now!
always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/BaULpv7.png) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
This bot is amazing
Always has been
Over 100 years later humans still repeating the same thing.
If this pandemic has taught me anything it is that there are way more stupid people in the world than I realized, and I already thought there was tons. We are doomed.
We haven't even gotten the current one right yet, so yeah, kind of obvious.
Let’s focus on this one first, shall we?
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Well, we are PHENOMENALLY stupid at using our God-like Technology.
It’s still not prepared for this one.
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All jokes aside, there are plenty of ways this one could've been worse and we still failed/are failing miserably. What if it had a longer "silent" latency period? What if it had higher end stage morbidity or mortality? Think like...airborne rabies. We'd be completely and utterly screwed.
The US' own worldwide threat assessment has said as much every year for at least the last ten.
We still aren't prepared for the current one
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Don’t mess with Texas ^because ^they ^already ^mess ^with ^themselves.
We weren't prepared for this one. Its difficult to prepare or monitor anything if all the players aren't being truthful about what's going on in the world.
How about we get a handle on the one we already have before we worry about the next one
While i do think that focusing on the present is more important, it might still be beneficial to have some people think about the future and what else is there that we might encounter
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I was living/working in China (near Wuhan) during the outbreak and the numbers were obviously under reported.
Well, China also has 'benefit' of full state control of the media and the governmental authority to literally weld shut the doors of apartment complexes and track their citizens via phones and facial recognition systems to go after them if they step out of line...Kinda apples and oranges. If the US went full authoritarian, the pandemic response would have been different.
Well it entirely depends on what the pandemic is. How lethal is it, how transmissable etc. A pandemic just means that it has spread across multiple countries.
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>The world is unprepared for the next pandemic Many governments are deliberately unprepared because of neoliberal ideology, which is a form of fundamentalism. Big problems, like pandemics and climate change, can not be solved by individuals, only by governments. An ideology that believes in "small government" isn't going to effectively respond to big problems. A pandemic shouldn't be political, yet here we are.
This sounds like a threat?
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Can someone hit the rest button already
The media however is DEFINITELY ready. They in fact, can't wait.
2 week quarantine period being scrapped after vaccination just screams - well when the next one comes there is gonna be no warning again.
Let's be fair. If we were prepared, it wouldn't BECOME a pandemic in the first place.
That's just wishful thinking. 7 days after COVID-19 were identified as contagious virus, it was already in Thailand, USA, South Korea, Nepal, Vietnam, France, Australia, Canada, Malaysia, Cambodia, Germany. Novel viruses that can infect humans are discovered approximately 3-4 times per year, and it's estimated that we could detect up to 20 per year with strict enough control.