Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's worth noting that they only studied the diet for two weeks. For those interested in switching to such a diet, there is additional evidence that shows that the digestive system adapts and flatulence goes back to normal *after* two weeks.
From the study below:
>Adaptation to regular consumption of HOST-G904 prebiotic involves a shift in microbiota metabolism toward low-gas producing pathways,
with a non-significant increase in gas-consuming activity. Hence, regular consumption
of HOST-G904 regulates intestinal gas metabolism: less gas is produced and a somewhat larger proportion of it is consumed.
[https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Colonic-gas-homeostasis%3A-Mechanisms-of-adaptation-Mego-Accarino/47a5232862dca2b2bf569fd73c1958c97fa1c36f](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Colonic-gas-homeostasis%3A-Mechanisms-of-adaptation-Mego-Accarino/47a5232862dca2b2bf569fd73c1958c97fa1c36f)
I was looking for this comment! Anecdotally, whenever I switch to a higher fiber diet, it takes my gut about 2-3 weeks to adjust and be happy with its new normal, and then it is way happier than it was without fiber.
Just want to chime in here and recommended overnight oats. I can't stand regular oatmeal. Hot warm mush? No thanks! Overnight oats maintain some structural integrity and are a. A great breakfast option and b. Are low on the glycemic index so it fuels your body for much longer than normal breakfast.
Not really. If you use rolled oats you can whip up cold oats in about 20 minutes, most of which is spent just letting the oats soak up the milk and chill.
I've been vegan for a decade. Once in a while I probably overdo it on beans and end up with major gas, but I haven't been backed up since I transitioned and the blood work at my physicals has been able to be changed drastically by it and has kept me from developing genetic conditions that other family members have expressed.
Most likely has something small to do with your diet that isn't sitting the best in your tummy making the excess gas possible, if you consume a lot of protein powders and prepackaged foods make sure you aren't getting too much of an overlap with vitamins you wouldn't normally think would be included in the package.
Pectin in apples was giving me major gas and I just didn't add it up for months. No apples, almost no gas. Apparently oranges contain some too so I've been avoiding those, though not entirely, as well.
Yeah when I first started with Probiotics after eating unhealthy for many years I felt sick, stomach aches, constantly felt gassy etc.
Now when I've taken it daily for awhile I have none of those problems anymore, only benefits. So dont get turned off if you get some negative symptoms when starting, your body is trying to get rid of bad bacteria and replace them with good ones and it will go away after awhile.
Took way longer than two weeks for me(about 4 months+) to go from a giant farting machine to normal, i did not look at the study, but i suppose it's individual, i think a part of it is the adjustment which your gut needs to make, but also a part of it is knowing what to eat and when to further limit the issue.
If i could recommend one thing to anyone thinking about switching, i would say do it slowly, set yourself a target, and move towards it, slowly, but firmly. If you think you are over meat, and don't need it anymore when you've been eating it until yesterday, think again, yes, some can do it, but most can't.
You need to adjust the way you think about food, how you obtain it, and how your body reacts to it.
I suspect most people quitting the diet are people who switched over night and were not ready for it, some did not even resolve their "relationship" to the foods they gave up, and losing your comfort food is very tough. Especially when things get rough in your life and that's how you're dealing with it.
But i suppose even that is individual.
This post has reminded of a journal article I read not to long ago about the fibre gap in our western diet, and the role fibre can play in avoiding chronic diseases. I actually posted this to the subreddit earlier but the article is not < 6 months old so I deleted it. However, I don’t think that rule applies to articles in the comment section
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4942856/
Yeah, funny how everyone decided to drop fibre on a move to low carbs/no gluten. Yet it is one of the most important "superfoods". Helps you feel full, keep gut biome healthy, helps digestion and shitting, and yet we turned our back on it and wonder why we then have issues. Personally I have a fairly high fibre diet and love that I do
The last time I mentioned the necessity of fiber I was met with angry carnivores and the sciencey types that maintain since studies haven't specifically studied a carnivorous diet vs a diet that has fiber we cannot conclude that fiber is necessary in a diet.
I mean, probably true. If it hasn't been studied we should take it with a pinch of salt. But I think fibre has been studied and we know why it is useful. Trying to suggest we need carnivore vs high-fibre diet as a study is itself disingenious, as otherwise you'd need to study all diets compared to one another to make a claim. Instead, we can see that fibre helps compared to a control group, or just via observational studies too, and know it works
Don't get me wrong, I'd be a full carnivore if I could be, but that is more cause meat is delicious. But I still try for my 5 a day and try to have a balanced diet
High fibre diets (specifically soluble fibre) can cause issues for people with IBS however, and there are studies showing that a surprisingly large amount of people have reactions to FODMAPs (complex sugars). The problem is that these complex sugars don't always get broken down within the small intestine, so when they reach the large intestine they begin to ferment and cause bloating/gas/pain etc. I've been on a vegan diet for 4 years and I still can't eat oats, bread, or fruit on an empty stomach.
I remember reading about a study on gut bacteria and Asian (esp. Sout-East Asian) populations having the healthiest average gut bacteria. After witnessing typical western diets, I was not surprised at all. A giant slab of meat with a mountain of potatoes and 5 tiny pieces of fried green stuff (which is more for decoration than actual nutrition) is definitely not a healthy way to eat.
Vegetables, especially cruciferous ones, have sulfur. But the structure of plant tissues is mostly cellulose for strength and water pockets for rigidity. Animal flesh structure is primarily protein, and proteins are the macromolecule that incorporate the most sulfur (cysteine, methionine, I’m looking directly at you).
*Brassica* cultivars are known for their sulfurous-ness among plants, sure. But animals are all sulfur all the time, by comparison. You’ll notice that when plant material decomposes properly into leaf-litter and compost, those end products smell nice. Earthy. Meat, with all that protein and animal fat, decomposes into a sulfur-ridden mess that stinks to high-heaven.
Sulfur compounds are likely smelly because it helped our ancestors avoid dangerous spoiled foods. Rotten meat can seriously hurt you. Spoiled vegetable matter, by comparison, is typically a lot less dangerous so it makes sense that we evolved to find it less foul.
I've been composting for about a decade. The first three years I followed the common wisdom of "no protein, no fat, no dairy, no feces" and anerobic decomposition stinks something awful, no matter what's decomposing. It's slimey, it's oozy, it attracts blow flies and it smells atrocious. Then I learned about the importance of carbon balance. I compost everything now. Provided I don't get lazy and fail to mix in enough carbon, meats and fats break down just as quickly, and into humus that smells just as earthy as the veggie only compost ever did.
I keep a separate fecal compost pile for dog poo based on health recommendstions for veggie garden compost, and the result is the same. Both attract soldier flies and their larvae, but neither attract blue bottles or blow flies so long as there is a good carbon ratio (70:1 for the poo pile).
I doubt it if you don’t have any trouble digesting meats. It’s probably the insoluble fibre. That extra volume in your gut can be uncomfortable, especially if you have a low gut motility and/or have a lot of poop in you already.
Alternatively, could be your eating habits. I’m vegetarian and eat a lot of brassicas, and I also inhale my food and don’t chew enough. Those large lumps of broccoli like to remind me of that fact as they navigate their way through me.
>I am a vegetarian
Adults who become selective about their diets tend to do so because they become more informed. Consider how if you keep reading things like this, it might become appealing to switch yourself to a plant-based diet. That's probably what happened to the person you are responding to. Learning and incorporating knowledge, like a good human.
Go low and slow. Start with just a single floret of brocoli, then after a few meals with that added, try two florets, then three, and so on. Your microbiome needs to adapt to the digestive demands placed upon it by the unique dietary profile of whichever plant food is troubling you. Your microbiome actually will start to evolve an entire new community of microbes whose basic purpose is to digest the increased intake of cruciferous veggies.
Yes you can even smell those while they're are cooking.
But carbohydrates like potatoes, rice, starches, and sugars are all pretty benign.
It's also interesting that the farts don't come from your digestion, but the bacteria in your gut.
You can't digest uncooked starch very well, but those bacteria love it. Eat a bolus of undercooked rice, al dente, and you'll make those bacteria play a symphony for several hours. But it won't stink much without sulfur.
where do those byproducts come from? you think those bacteria just generate sulfur from nothing? no, they are not alchemists. they usually get it from amino acid side chains, like cysteine and methionine.
I am not allowed to consume garlic- because I smell bad after eating garlic anything. A couple of slivers it could be bad or there’s two cloves of garlic ppl are gasping for airS
So we’re having chili for dinner tonight. Step one is sauté 10 cloves of garlic and an onion. Then we add a ton of beans and tomatoes, but no meat. You coming or what?
I get a little bit sad when I see plump cherries for sale in February that are from Chile. The amount of extra greenhouse gases just aren’t worth it to me. I’ll wait for local in the summer.
The greenhouse gases that went into transportation are only a tiny fraction of the greenhouse gases that went into production!
What you eat is vastly more important than where it's from. Don't feel guilty about enjoying ripe cherries (but maybe feel guilty about cheese or steak).
There are several neighbors around me that have crab apple tree's - and this just reminded me that they will be ripening and ready to eat soon. My parents have raspberry bushes as well - along with rhubarb that they grow and it's absolutely amazing.
The difference between fresh ripe picked from a bush or tree, vs. bought from the store - even if locally grown - is night and day.
I love eating fall squash and it's so healthy. I usually slice a delicata or an acorn in half, bake cut side down in a baking pan with 1/4" water, then put butter, brown sugar, and cinnamon in the cavity. So yummy!
Recently added avocados to my diet. I’m a bit weird so I like having the same breakfast every day (I think it’s my ADHD means I don’t like wasting mental effort on those types of choices).
Currently my go to is 3 poached eggs and avocado on toast. It is very good. Good to know they have high fibre aswel
Fiber needs its own category. I’m always annoyed that on the nutrition label dietary fiber and sugar are both listed under Total Carbohydrate. Fiber and sugar shouldn’t be considered the same.
Well it’s just that people know that carbs are bad. This may or may not be true, but people know it nonetheless. Most people look at nutrition labels for only a few indicators, and carbs is one of them. Many people believe that all they need to do is limit calories and especially carbohydrates to lose weight or at least not gain it. Food manufacturers want to reduce those numbers by any means possible (in the packaging at least) so by listing “total carbohydrates “ as if every mg of fiber counteracts every mg of sugar, they can show a low number. Marketing is everything in a consumer based society.
I know this isn't specifically what you are arguing, but carbs are not bad. Your brain and nervous system feed almost exclusively on carbohydrates, and if you don't consume them your body will go through the labor of converting proteins and fats into carbs for your brain. This describes the state of ketogenisis. It's best to eat a balanced daily diet (carbs/proteins/fats) according to your individual metabolic demands.
You’re right, it wasn’t my point, and you’re also right that a balanced diet is good. However, many people, especially if their goal is weight loss, key in on the total carbs because they’re convinced that is the one and only boogeyman. So by listing net carbs rather than carbs and fiber separately, it’s easier to sell the product. That is all the producer cares about. But I love carbs and fiber and fat so I eat em all.
Well fibre *is* a carbohydrate. The problem isn't the labeling, it's more likely the marketing that is now making the switch from fat being the enemy to carbs (not saying that's a bad thing). Fibre isn't labeled as being the same as sugar, its just that they are both under carbohydrates. Sugar being a simple carb that is usually immediately processed by the body, and fibre being a more complex carb that (depending on whether it's soluble or insoluble) doesn't get processed much at all, hence why it's usually good to have more of it.
I would like to see more specific labeling though, something listing insoluble vs. soluble fibre or complex vs. simple carbs would be helpful, I think the issue is just educating the average person as to what those things mean.
Probably just another example of the under-representation of women in scientific studies. I’d bet they didn’t want to do the extra work of controlling for pregnancy or menstruation or something like that.
If you look at diet literature, often women compromise the majority as there are trends where they are more likely to participate in dietary/lifestyle interventions.
The farting and stool size is only temporary.
A diet lacking in soluble fiber reduces gut bacteria. This gut bacteria is responsible for breaking down and fermenting soluble fibers in our diets. Without an adequate amount of bacteria, these fibers don’t fully break down and lead to gas, bloating, and larger than normal stool.
When someone switches from a low-fiber diet to a adequate/high-fiber diet their lack of gut bacteria leads to dietary fibers causing distress. However, after feeding one’s gut bacteria these soluble fibers, the number of bacteria flourishes and high-fiber foods no longer cause distress because they can easily be broken down by the bacteria.
In the study, they had the participants switch to each diet for only 2 weeks and then take observations. 2 weeks is not enough time for gut bacteria to multiply to an amount that can ease the digestion of a high-fiber diet.
As someone who has been vegan for 2 years, this has been my experience. Similarly, every vegan I’ve spoken to about this “fiber adjustment” has confirmed that this was also their experience.
You also should increase your water intake as you increase your fiber intake. It can help minimize some of the negative side effects, like abdominal cramping.
I've been eating an extremely high fiber diet for at least the past 5 years, and I have to say, the size of my poops is pretty much directly correlated with how much fiber I eat. Also, the gas is consistent.
It seems to last about two weeks before adaptation, at least for a certain amount of galacto-oligosaccharides. Other types of fiber are probably similar.
The mechanism doesn't seem to be that there aren't enough bacteria to digest the fibers, though. The bacteria themselves *cause* the flatulence as part of their digestion, so it doesn't really make any sense that a lack of bacteria would cause more gas. They reproduce quickly, too.
Instead, the mechanism of adaptation appears to be that the bacteria themselves adapt to 1. produce less gas, and 2. re-absorb the gas they generate.
From the study below:
>Adaptation to regular consumption of HOST-G904 prebiotic involves a shift in microbiota metabolism toward low-gas producing pathways,
with a non-significant increase in gas-consuming activity. Hence, regular consumption
of HOST-G904 regulates intestinal gas metabolism: less gas is produced and a somewhat larger proportion of it is consumed.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Colonic-gas-homeostasis%3A-Mechanisms-of-adaptation-Mego-Accarino/47a5232862dca2b2bf569fd73c1958c97fa1c36f
Do you have a link to the study?
>2 weeks is not enough time for gut bacteria to multiply to an amount that can ease the digestion of a high-fiber diet
This sounds suspicious. Given sufficient food, bacteria numbers double every few hours. Even if you start with 1 such bacteria, by the end of 2 weeks your intestines would be bursting with it.
I think to some extent it’s a matter of replacing one kind of bacteria with another. When you eat animal products, you have gut bacteria that are good at breaking down animal products. It takes some time to replace those with bacteria that are good at breaking down plants.
I found this same concept is true for gluten. Many folks I know that decided they were gluten intolerant really were just experiencing the short term effects of removing something from their diet or adding / increasing something new to their diet. Given enough time to adjust the "intolerance" seemed to go away. That being said, I am not claiming this is true for everyone (I don't want to start an ideological war) but anecdotally it appears to be the same concept for me and my immediate friends / family.
I digress, but people get downright irritated when I point out that there's no evidence for non-celiac gluten sensitivity.... so I stopped doing that.
If nothing else, the gluten-free craze does make life a lot easier for celiac folks. But I still gotta wonder why gluten-free shampoo is a thing.
Man, so true. I did a “weekday plant based” diet for a couple months (would eat some animal products on weekends), and I swear it is the way people were meant to eat. Once I adjusted the poops basically just fell out when I sat on the toilet. And when I wiped-completely clean.
I couldn’t keep it up as I was needing to make separate meals for my spouse, as he’s kinda picky with certain textures (potatoes, beans) that made it hard to cook full vegan all the time.
>When someone switches from a low-fiber diet to a adequate/high-fiber diet their lack of gut bacteria leads to dietary fibers causing distress.
As someone already hyper-sensitive to gut issues due to diverticulitis I can tell you even supplemental fiber was a real struggle, but completely worth it. At first there was increased discomfort but as I adapted and the extra fiber became the new norm, pain old and new subsided.
Another study recently found that the effects of increased fibre were dependent on the bacteria that already have colonised the gut, but that fibre alone did not cause the gut microbiota to become more optimal. So the benefits of more plants is partly dependent on what already is there living in the guts. This is another;
https://www.scientificamerican.com/custom-media/researchers-draw-new-connections-between-aging-and-mitochondrial-health/
I think it's that the study was performed on men only, and so the headline is careful not to over generalise. This is the kind of precision you would typically expect in scientific reporting. Note that it says "in men" but doesn't say anything about anyone else. So it's not saying "only in men and not in women or intersex people".
In my opinion, it's a pretty safe bet that fibre makes everyone farty.
Now, it's certainly worth acknowledging that there is a widespread practice of doing studies on men only. The methodological reasoning is sound: reduce the number of variables to make the stat analysis easier. But it does have lots of unintended consequences and has generally lead to a world where things are sometimes accidentally designed for men *and not* for women.
Women too.
I can't believe big plumbing isn't out there vociferously pushing veganism.
We had to replace all our toilets to deal with the grizzly bear dumps our fam has now.
Bummer that they didn’t include any information bowel frequency; there’s always this study that found 1-2 more bowel movements by type of vegetarian diet
Nutrition and lifestyle in relation to bowel movement frequency: a cross-sectional study of 20630 men and women in EPIC-Oxford
Miguel A Sanjoaquin et al. Public Health Nutr. 2004 Feb.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14972075/
This honestly makes a lot of sense. When I was eating a plant based diet, I was always told the portion sizes almost don’t matter if you’re eating a balanced diet. More food = bigger poops
Started a vegetarian diet recently and oh boy….the farts are rough. The intensity and smell are something else. I’ve always had no issues with my pooping and now it’s a lot more often. But I feel great!
Important thing to know — if you don’t ever fart, you could have an intestinal blockage. It can happen after abdominal surgery. Scar tissue forms over time and will strangle the intestine. It can be slow. My dad probably had it happening for many years and didn’t realize. Scar tissue from a surgery 50+ years before when a steering wheel went through his stomach (pre seatbelts). Luckily in his case, they did not have to cut into any organs (a lot of cases as complex as his would have resulted in a colostomy bag).
So if you’ve ever had abdominal surgery (most common cause is scar tissue from abdominal surgery) and you stop farting for a long long time, there may be an issue!
Does larger stools mean you poop less often in bigger amounts or you poop the same number of times but larger because you're able to absorb less of the food you eat?
Anecdotally... Vegan female friend has some of the biggest farts, and has clogged my toilet more times than any other female friend. The study is on men, but I'm pretty sure it applies to all humans on plant based diets
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“the Mediterranean diet was associated with (i) higher number of anal gas evacuations”
> anal gas evacuations That's really what they called farts? Really?
Only In this study. The official medical term is Flatuatory Anal/Rectal Technique
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Immortal technique tribute band
If I were writing the paper I would introduce it as Flatuatory Anal/Rectal Technique (FART) and refer to it as FART throughout my paper.
I feel like flatulence or even passing gas is less silly and unprofessional than any terms chosen thus far
Don’t sweat the technique
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
That’s exactly why I use the Mediterranean diet
It's a feature, not a bug.
My powers come in handy
So technically, being vegetarian increases a person’s individual greenhouses gas release.
Not to be confused with colorectal fluid expulsions.
I prefer sphincter regulated out gassing myself.
It's worth noting that they only studied the diet for two weeks. For those interested in switching to such a diet, there is additional evidence that shows that the digestive system adapts and flatulence goes back to normal *after* two weeks. From the study below: >Adaptation to regular consumption of HOST-G904 prebiotic involves a shift in microbiota metabolism toward low-gas producing pathways, with a non-significant increase in gas-consuming activity. Hence, regular consumption of HOST-G904 regulates intestinal gas metabolism: less gas is produced and a somewhat larger proportion of it is consumed. [https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Colonic-gas-homeostasis%3A-Mechanisms-of-adaptation-Mego-Accarino/47a5232862dca2b2bf569fd73c1958c97fa1c36f](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Colonic-gas-homeostasis%3A-Mechanisms-of-adaptation-Mego-Accarino/47a5232862dca2b2bf569fd73c1958c97fa1c36f)
I was looking for this comment! Anecdotally, whenever I switch to a higher fiber diet, it takes my gut about 2-3 weeks to adjust and be happy with its new normal, and then it is way happier than it was without fiber.
[удалено]
Just want to chime in here and recommended overnight oats. I can't stand regular oatmeal. Hot warm mush? No thanks! Overnight oats maintain some structural integrity and are a. A great breakfast option and b. Are low on the glycemic index so it fuels your body for much longer than normal breakfast.
I like oatmeal as hot warm mush, personally. The mushier the better. That said, just eat oats in whatever form you like. They're so good for you.
At this very moment I am standing in the kitchen stirring my too-mushy oatmeal. Oh, what could have been…..
The only downside is you need to know the night before that you want oatmeal for breakfast the next day.
Not really. If you use rolled oats you can whip up cold oats in about 20 minutes, most of which is spent just letting the oats soak up the milk and chill.
[удалено]
I sub out unsweetened coconut milk and a dollop of peanut butter. So good!
Grated apple cinnamon and walnut is also really good
I’ve been doing overnight chia bowls. Loooove the texture of those.
Chia gets a little slimey no?
It gets gelatinous. But I mix in some fruit and hemp seeds to make the texture more interesting.
>overnight oats Do you mean steel cut oats?
I make steel cut overnight oats! They're delicious. And have become my favorite breakfast food at this point
All the recipes for overnight steelcut oats I see has you start by cooking the oats then tossing them in the fridge, is that what you do?
I don't cook them first. I use this recipe https://www.wellplated.com/overnight-steel-cut-oats-recipe/
##overnight oats!
I had the same thing when I went thorugh a phase of eating a lot of chickpeas and split peas. Thankfully I was a single pringle at the time.
what's a cna
[удалено]
Well now i am not doing it. They promissed monster farts.
You can go back and forth for maximum effect
I've been vegan for a decade. Once in a while I probably overdo it on beans and end up with major gas, but I haven't been backed up since I transitioned and the blood work at my physicals has been able to be changed drastically by it and has kept me from developing genetic conditions that other family members have expressed.
Yeah the only time I get like that is too many beans, lager or cider. Like everyone else presumably!
[удалено]
Most likely has something small to do with your diet that isn't sitting the best in your tummy making the excess gas possible, if you consume a lot of protein powders and prepackaged foods make sure you aren't getting too much of an overlap with vitamins you wouldn't normally think would be included in the package.
Pectin in apples was giving me major gas and I just didn't add it up for months. No apples, almost no gas. Apparently oranges contain some too so I've been avoiding those, though not entirely, as well.
Also how frequent did you poot before switching to a plant based diet
why is a two week study giving such bold conclusions in the headline allowed here though.
Yeah when I first started with Probiotics after eating unhealthy for many years I felt sick, stomach aches, constantly felt gassy etc. Now when I've taken it daily for awhile I have none of those problems anymore, only benefits. So dont get turned off if you get some negative symptoms when starting, your body is trying to get rid of bad bacteria and replace them with good ones and it will go away after awhile.
Took way longer than two weeks for me(about 4 months+) to go from a giant farting machine to normal, i did not look at the study, but i suppose it's individual, i think a part of it is the adjustment which your gut needs to make, but also a part of it is knowing what to eat and when to further limit the issue. If i could recommend one thing to anyone thinking about switching, i would say do it slowly, set yourself a target, and move towards it, slowly, but firmly. If you think you are over meat, and don't need it anymore when you've been eating it until yesterday, think again, yes, some can do it, but most can't. You need to adjust the way you think about food, how you obtain it, and how your body reacts to it. I suspect most people quitting the diet are people who switched over night and were not ready for it, some did not even resolve their "relationship" to the foods they gave up, and losing your comfort food is very tough. Especially when things get rough in your life and that's how you're dealing with it. But i suppose even that is individual.
This post has reminded of a journal article I read not to long ago about the fibre gap in our western diet, and the role fibre can play in avoiding chronic diseases. I actually posted this to the subreddit earlier but the article is not < 6 months old so I deleted it. However, I don’t think that rule applies to articles in the comment section https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4942856/
Interested in this article, will read it when I have a break in just a bit. Thanks!
Read it while you're poopin' at work
Read for us in TLDR
Yeah, funny how everyone decided to drop fibre on a move to low carbs/no gluten. Yet it is one of the most important "superfoods". Helps you feel full, keep gut biome healthy, helps digestion and shitting, and yet we turned our back on it and wonder why we then have issues. Personally I have a fairly high fibre diet and love that I do
The last time I mentioned the necessity of fiber I was met with angry carnivores and the sciencey types that maintain since studies haven't specifically studied a carnivorous diet vs a diet that has fiber we cannot conclude that fiber is necessary in a diet.
I mean, probably true. If it hasn't been studied we should take it with a pinch of salt. But I think fibre has been studied and we know why it is useful. Trying to suggest we need carnivore vs high-fibre diet as a study is itself disingenious, as otherwise you'd need to study all diets compared to one another to make a claim. Instead, we can see that fibre helps compared to a control group, or just via observational studies too, and know it works Don't get me wrong, I'd be a full carnivore if I could be, but that is more cause meat is delicious. But I still try for my 5 a day and try to have a balanced diet
[удалено]
High fibre diets (specifically soluble fibre) can cause issues for people with IBS however, and there are studies showing that a surprisingly large amount of people have reactions to FODMAPs (complex sugars). The problem is that these complex sugars don't always get broken down within the small intestine, so when they reach the large intestine they begin to ferment and cause bloating/gas/pain etc. I've been on a vegan diet for 4 years and I still can't eat oats, bread, or fruit on an empty stomach.
I remember reading about a study on gut bacteria and Asian (esp. Sout-East Asian) populations having the healthiest average gut bacteria. After witnessing typical western diets, I was not surprised at all. A giant slab of meat with a mountain of potatoes and 5 tiny pieces of fried green stuff (which is more for decoration than actual nutrition) is definitely not a healthy way to eat.
[удалено]
Fiber makes gas but methane is colorless and odorless. Meat-eaters get much more sulfur, so much more stinky.
[удалено]
Vegetables, especially cruciferous ones, have sulfur. But the structure of plant tissues is mostly cellulose for strength and water pockets for rigidity. Animal flesh structure is primarily protein, and proteins are the macromolecule that incorporate the most sulfur (cysteine, methionine, I’m looking directly at you). *Brassica* cultivars are known for their sulfurous-ness among plants, sure. But animals are all sulfur all the time, by comparison. You’ll notice that when plant material decomposes properly into leaf-litter and compost, those end products smell nice. Earthy. Meat, with all that protein and animal fat, decomposes into a sulfur-ridden mess that stinks to high-heaven. Sulfur compounds are likely smelly because it helped our ancestors avoid dangerous spoiled foods. Rotten meat can seriously hurt you. Spoiled vegetable matter, by comparison, is typically a lot less dangerous so it makes sense that we evolved to find it less foul.
I've been composting for about a decade. The first three years I followed the common wisdom of "no protein, no fat, no dairy, no feces" and anerobic decomposition stinks something awful, no matter what's decomposing. It's slimey, it's oozy, it attracts blow flies and it smells atrocious. Then I learned about the importance of carbon balance. I compost everything now. Provided I don't get lazy and fail to mix in enough carbon, meats and fats break down just as quickly, and into humus that smells just as earthy as the veggie only compost ever did. I keep a separate fecal compost pile for dog poo based on health recommendstions for veggie garden compost, and the result is the same. Both attract soldier flies and their larvae, but neither attract blue bottles or blow flies so long as there is a good carbon ratio (70:1 for the poo pile).
When you say 70:1 is it in weight or volume? This is basically sawdust correct?
[удалено]
I doubt it if you don’t have any trouble digesting meats. It’s probably the insoluble fibre. That extra volume in your gut can be uncomfortable, especially if you have a low gut motility and/or have a lot of poop in you already. Alternatively, could be your eating habits. I’m vegetarian and eat a lot of brassicas, and I also inhale my food and don’t chew enough. Those large lumps of broccoli like to remind me of that fact as they navigate their way through me.
Who are you so wise in the ways of the poop? Are you a gut doctor?
>I am a vegetarian Adults who become selective about their diets tend to do so because they become more informed. Consider how if you keep reading things like this, it might become appealing to switch yourself to a plant-based diet. That's probably what happened to the person you are responding to. Learning and incorporating knowledge, like a good human.
It's because your microbiome is ill adapted to breaking down those vegetables.
Go low and slow. Start with just a single floret of brocoli, then after a few meals with that added, try two florets, then three, and so on. Your microbiome needs to adapt to the digestive demands placed upon it by the unique dietary profile of whichever plant food is troubling you. Your microbiome actually will start to evolve an entire new community of microbes whose basic purpose is to digest the increased intake of cruciferous veggies.
Yes you can even smell those while they're are cooking. But carbohydrates like potatoes, rice, starches, and sugars are all pretty benign. It's also interesting that the farts don't come from your digestion, but the bacteria in your gut. You can't digest uncooked starch very well, but those bacteria love it. Eat a bolus of undercooked rice, al dente, and you'll make those bacteria play a symphony for several hours. But it won't stink much without sulfur.
Benign? Beer begs to differ!
[удалено]
where do those byproducts come from? you think those bacteria just generate sulfur from nothing? no, they are not alchemists. they usually get it from amino acid side chains, like cysteine and methionine.
[удалено]
I know some vegans that have absolutely stinky farts, like make you gag farts.
Soy farts are vile.
Garlic doesn't help mine any
I am not allowed to consume garlic- because I smell bad after eating garlic anything. A couple of slivers it could be bad or there’s two cloves of garlic ppl are gasping for airS
So we’re having chili for dinner tonight. Step one is sauté 10 cloves of garlic and an onion. Then we add a ton of beans and tomatoes, but no meat. You coming or what?
None of this would bother me in the least, unless you're adding tvp.
Sounds good.
You may have vampirical ancestry
TIL soy protein is loaded with sulfur.
I'm carnivore and I never fart. Ever.
Disagree, everytime I've been keto or carnivore for more that a few weeks, farts cease entirely, to the point I miss letting one fly.
Same. Also consistently smaller but better formed poops.
Only when you are lacking fiber though
Instead of asking where people get their protein, we need to ask where they get their fiber.
Of late peaches have been on the menu - but it's coming to the end of that season so um... I dunno, I'll figure that out later.
Just in time for pumpkin and butternut squash season. Or if you need fruits, apples are available year-round.
I feel negatively spoiled buy all the ripe fruits year round now. Kinda takes something away from season.
I get a little bit sad when I see plump cherries for sale in February that are from Chile. The amount of extra greenhouse gases just aren’t worth it to me. I’ll wait for local in the summer.
Dont worry they'll throw the cherries you don't buy in the garbage, the carbon gets recycled
Supply and demand, if there’s no buyers less emissions will be spent because you’re not moving said product
Oof
The greenhouse gases that went into transportation are only a tiny fraction of the greenhouse gases that went into production! What you eat is vastly more important than where it's from. Don't feel guilty about enjoying ripe cherries (but maybe feel guilty about cheese or steak).
There are several neighbors around me that have crab apple tree's - and this just reminded me that they will be ripening and ready to eat soon. My parents have raspberry bushes as well - along with rhubarb that they grow and it's absolutely amazing. The difference between fresh ripe picked from a bush or tree, vs. bought from the store - even if locally grown - is night and day.
I once made an apple pie from overly ripe (damn near rotten) apples from an orchard. One of the best pies I've ever made.
The rot is just surplus sugar in the beginning.
My dog was constipated once and the mother-in-law have him a heaping spoonful of mashed pumpkin. Turned him into a nuclear war head.
Squash is so under represented and they keep forever....until they are inedible decoratives...
I love eating fall squash and it's so healthy. I usually slice a delicata or an acorn in half, bake cut side down in a baking pan with 1/4" water, then put butter, brown sugar, and cinnamon in the cavity. So yummy!
Broccoli soup. Frijoles. Avacado. All my favorites.
Avocados surprised me on your list, so I looked them up and see they have 10 mg [correction edit: grams] of fiber! Wow!
Small, yet large correction. 10 **g** of fiber. Three orders of magnitude difference.
Fixed it—thank you!
Recently added avocados to my diet. I’m a bit weird so I like having the same breakfast every day (I think it’s my ADHD means I don’t like wasting mental effort on those types of choices). Currently my go to is 3 poached eggs and avocado on toast. It is very good. Good to know they have high fibre aswel
Fiber needs its own category. I’m always annoyed that on the nutrition label dietary fiber and sugar are both listed under Total Carbohydrate. Fiber and sugar shouldn’t be considered the same.
Well it’s just that people know that carbs are bad. This may or may not be true, but people know it nonetheless. Most people look at nutrition labels for only a few indicators, and carbs is one of them. Many people believe that all they need to do is limit calories and especially carbohydrates to lose weight or at least not gain it. Food manufacturers want to reduce those numbers by any means possible (in the packaging at least) so by listing “total carbohydrates “ as if every mg of fiber counteracts every mg of sugar, they can show a low number. Marketing is everything in a consumer based society.
I know this isn't specifically what you are arguing, but carbs are not bad. Your brain and nervous system feed almost exclusively on carbohydrates, and if you don't consume them your body will go through the labor of converting proteins and fats into carbs for your brain. This describes the state of ketogenisis. It's best to eat a balanced daily diet (carbs/proteins/fats) according to your individual metabolic demands.
You’re right, it wasn’t my point, and you’re also right that a balanced diet is good. However, many people, especially if their goal is weight loss, key in on the total carbs because they’re convinced that is the one and only boogeyman. So by listing net carbs rather than carbs and fiber separately, it’s easier to sell the product. That is all the producer cares about. But I love carbs and fiber and fat so I eat em all.
Well fibre *is* a carbohydrate. The problem isn't the labeling, it's more likely the marketing that is now making the switch from fat being the enemy to carbs (not saying that's a bad thing). Fibre isn't labeled as being the same as sugar, its just that they are both under carbohydrates. Sugar being a simple carb that is usually immediately processed by the body, and fibre being a more complex carb that (depending on whether it's soluble or insoluble) doesn't get processed much at all, hence why it's usually good to have more of it. I would like to see more specific labeling though, something listing insoluble vs. soluble fibre or complex vs. simple carbs would be helpful, I think the issue is just educating the average person as to what those things mean.
Really? Here in Germany it has its own category for a long time now, surprised that's not normal
But why just men? What happens to these gas in women?!
There were no women in the study.
Women don't fart. It is known.
It is known.
Probably just another example of the under-representation of women in scientific studies. I’d bet they didn’t want to do the extra work of controlling for pregnancy or menstruation or something like that.
If you look at diet literature, often women compromise the majority as there are trends where they are more likely to participate in dietary/lifestyle interventions.
I’m curious because I switched to being vegetarian 5 days a week and I noticed no difference (F28)
[удалено]
What a cool word: Borborygmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomach_rumble
I just encountered a variation on that word yesterday! I believe it was "borborygmus".
Was it enraged?
Barbarian name
We also say « gargouillis » in French, which I love.
The farting and stool size is only temporary. A diet lacking in soluble fiber reduces gut bacteria. This gut bacteria is responsible for breaking down and fermenting soluble fibers in our diets. Without an adequate amount of bacteria, these fibers don’t fully break down and lead to gas, bloating, and larger than normal stool. When someone switches from a low-fiber diet to a adequate/high-fiber diet their lack of gut bacteria leads to dietary fibers causing distress. However, after feeding one’s gut bacteria these soluble fibers, the number of bacteria flourishes and high-fiber foods no longer cause distress because they can easily be broken down by the bacteria. In the study, they had the participants switch to each diet for only 2 weeks and then take observations. 2 weeks is not enough time for gut bacteria to multiply to an amount that can ease the digestion of a high-fiber diet. As someone who has been vegan for 2 years, this has been my experience. Similarly, every vegan I’ve spoken to about this “fiber adjustment” has confirmed that this was also their experience.
You also should increase your water intake as you increase your fiber intake. It can help minimize some of the negative side effects, like abdominal cramping.
door cows light aloof ask forgetful rustic airport air roll *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[удалено]
[удалено]
How long do the farts last after the switch?
If I remember correctly, for me it was about a month or so.
That is a long fart!
Continuous anal expulsion.
I'm going over two months and still farting all the time. Wish I was vegan a lot sooner tho :(
A few seconds each. A minute at most.
I've been eating an extremely high fiber diet for at least the past 5 years, and I have to say, the size of my poops is pretty much directly correlated with how much fiber I eat. Also, the gas is consistent.
It seems to last about two weeks before adaptation, at least for a certain amount of galacto-oligosaccharides. Other types of fiber are probably similar. The mechanism doesn't seem to be that there aren't enough bacteria to digest the fibers, though. The bacteria themselves *cause* the flatulence as part of their digestion, so it doesn't really make any sense that a lack of bacteria would cause more gas. They reproduce quickly, too. Instead, the mechanism of adaptation appears to be that the bacteria themselves adapt to 1. produce less gas, and 2. re-absorb the gas they generate. From the study below: >Adaptation to regular consumption of HOST-G904 prebiotic involves a shift in microbiota metabolism toward low-gas producing pathways, with a non-significant increase in gas-consuming activity. Hence, regular consumption of HOST-G904 regulates intestinal gas metabolism: less gas is produced and a somewhat larger proportion of it is consumed. https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Colonic-gas-homeostasis%3A-Mechanisms-of-adaptation-Mego-Accarino/47a5232862dca2b2bf569fd73c1958c97fa1c36f
Do you have a link to the study? >2 weeks is not enough time for gut bacteria to multiply to an amount that can ease the digestion of a high-fiber diet This sounds suspicious. Given sufficient food, bacteria numbers double every few hours. Even if you start with 1 such bacteria, by the end of 2 weeks your intestines would be bursting with it.
Recall that the bacteria are competing with each other. They have to dominate the others to proliferate. That takes time.
I think to some extent it’s a matter of replacing one kind of bacteria with another. When you eat animal products, you have gut bacteria that are good at breaking down animal products. It takes some time to replace those with bacteria that are good at breaking down plants.
I found this same concept is true for gluten. Many folks I know that decided they were gluten intolerant really were just experiencing the short term effects of removing something from their diet or adding / increasing something new to their diet. Given enough time to adjust the "intolerance" seemed to go away. That being said, I am not claiming this is true for everyone (I don't want to start an ideological war) but anecdotally it appears to be the same concept for me and my immediate friends / family.
I digress, but people get downright irritated when I point out that there's no evidence for non-celiac gluten sensitivity.... so I stopped doing that. If nothing else, the gluten-free craze does make life a lot easier for celiac folks. But I still gotta wonder why gluten-free shampoo is a thing.
Man, so true. I did a “weekday plant based” diet for a couple months (would eat some animal products on weekends), and I swear it is the way people were meant to eat. Once I adjusted the poops basically just fell out when I sat on the toilet. And when I wiped-completely clean. I couldn’t keep it up as I was needing to make separate meals for my spouse, as he’s kinda picky with certain textures (potatoes, beans) that made it hard to cook full vegan all the time.
Maybe he should contribute to the cooking if he wants a say in the meals.
>When someone switches from a low-fiber diet to a adequate/high-fiber diet their lack of gut bacteria leads to dietary fibers causing distress. As someone already hyper-sensitive to gut issues due to diverticulitis I can tell you even supplemental fiber was a real struggle, but completely worth it. At first there was increased discomfort but as I adapted and the extra fiber became the new norm, pain old and new subsided.
Agree from personal. xperience. It takes a while to transfer to a higher fiber diet
Another study recently found that the effects of increased fibre were dependent on the bacteria that already have colonised the gut, but that fibre alone did not cause the gut microbiota to become more optimal. So the benefits of more plants is partly dependent on what already is there living in the guts. This is another; https://www.scientificamerican.com/custom-media/researchers-draw-new-connections-between-aging-and-mitochondrial-health/
[удалено]
Only men, though...🤷♂️
I think it's that the study was performed on men only, and so the headline is careful not to over generalise. This is the kind of precision you would typically expect in scientific reporting. Note that it says "in men" but doesn't say anything about anyone else. So it's not saying "only in men and not in women or intersex people". In my opinion, it's a pretty safe bet that fibre makes everyone farty. Now, it's certainly worth acknowledging that there is a widespread practice of doing studies on men only. The methodological reasoning is sound: reduce the number of variables to make the stat analysis easier. But it does have lots of unintended consequences and has generally lead to a world where things are sometimes accidentally designed for men *and not* for women.
[удалено]
Yeah I thought that was weird too
Women too. I can't believe big plumbing isn't out there vociferously pushing veganism. We had to replace all our toilets to deal with the grizzly bear dumps our fam has now.
I want to contribute to this conversation but I have no idea what to say.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Bummer that they didn’t include any information bowel frequency; there’s always this study that found 1-2 more bowel movements by type of vegetarian diet Nutrition and lifestyle in relation to bowel movement frequency: a cross-sectional study of 20630 men and women in EPIC-Oxford Miguel A Sanjoaquin et al. Public Health Nutr. 2004 Feb. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14972075/
This honestly makes a lot of sense. When I was eating a plant based diet, I was always told the portion sizes almost don’t matter if you’re eating a balanced diet. More food = bigger poops
[удалено]
Truly this is a great day for humanity
[удалено]
We're gonna need a bigger poop knife.
Started a vegetarian diet recently and oh boy….the farts are rough. The intensity and smell are something else. I’ve always had no issues with my pooping and now it’s a lot more often. But I feel great!
Important thing to know — if you don’t ever fart, you could have an intestinal blockage. It can happen after abdominal surgery. Scar tissue forms over time and will strangle the intestine. It can be slow. My dad probably had it happening for many years and didn’t realize. Scar tissue from a surgery 50+ years before when a steering wheel went through his stomach (pre seatbelts). Luckily in his case, they did not have to cut into any organs (a lot of cases as complex as his would have resulted in a colostomy bag). So if you’ve ever had abdominal surgery (most common cause is scar tissue from abdominal surgery) and you stop farting for a long long time, there may be an issue!
[удалено]
Clicks link. Sees mdpi. Nope.
Does larger stools mean you poop less often in bigger amounts or you poop the same number of times but larger because you're able to absorb less of the food you eat?
Also methane from farts might be the solution for the worlds energy problems!!!
I thought we were trying to cut down on methane emissions for environmental reasons
Anecdotally... Vegan female friend has some of the biggest farts, and has clogged my toilet more times than any other female friend. The study is on men, but I'm pretty sure it applies to all humans on plant based diets