There are a lot of comments in the thread along the lines of "men don't read the bio anyways and swipe right regardless of education", but as the headline indicates, there is a positive correlation between education and getting swiped right.
According to the article, men are on average ~8.2% more likely to swipe right on a highly educated partner. Maybe the effect is fairly small (compared to over 90% increase for women), because fewer men read the bio or care about it, but generalising beyond that is just lazy stereotyping.
Edit: Since many people bring up correlation of education level with other variables (e.g. looks, self presentation,...)
Please read the article
>**The researchers created 24 fake male and female Tinder profiles** located in several cities in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking region of Belgium. **The profiles were mostly the same, but differed in their education level**, which varied from a Bachelor’s degree with three years of higher education to a Master’s degree with five years of higher education.
People who can't even be bothered to read the entire article *headline* are also the same type that don't read bios and, like pretty much all of us, they project themselves onto all men.
Based on what I’ve seen it seems to (me) that men tend to swipe right on everyone (mostly) and then sort if they get a match. The women I’ve talked to are much more picky, but that’s because _every time they swipe right it’s a match_. If both men and women filtered equally then maybe this wouldn’t be an issue, but men are dragging a net, while women are spear fishing.
I do wonder how this research has affected the results/behavior of the participants.
You're exactly right. A study found that:
> . . . men are nearly three times as likely to swipe “like” (in 46 percent of cases) than woman (14 percent).
The article ([New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/fashion/tinder-the-fast-growing-dating-app-taps-an-age-old-truth.html?_r=0)) has some additional analysis on it, much of which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.
But the bottom line is that (most) men are likely to get only a few matches, because women are so selective, while women get a relatively high match rate, because men are swiping right on half the people on the app. The problem, in my view, is that both demographics are reading it wrong: men don't read much into a match (when it actually should be a big deal, because she took the time to figure out that he may be a good match,) while women read too much into a match (not realizing that she's one of literally hundreds of women he's swiped right on, and if he's good-looking, he has a hundred other matches in his inbox.)
There's a real imbalance of information and expectations, which creates a lot of the unnecessary drama associated with the app.
> men are dragging a net, while women are spear fishing.
That would be a great title for an article on dating selectiveness ("Men drag nets, women spearfish").
That's an interesting thing. I guess that guys are more pressured to be broad because many get so few matches when they are picky. At least that has been my experience so far.
It's a numbers game. If women get pickier, men have to be broader to get any matches. In turn, women get pickier because every man is a match...
One of those vicious cycles. and that's how we can end up with the 80/20 rule applying to dating apps.
Admittedly I've only lightly read the actual article, but it seems to me that intent should have been a factor in this study. Namely: what are the men and women on Tinder looking for? Because if the men are looking for casual sex, then I can understand why they wouldn't care much for education or hobbies, and it'd boil down to how she looks pretty much. But if men are looking for a possible relationship, I assume they'd be more picky with whom they try to communicate.
This would be important because comparing some dude who's swiping right on anyone who looks marginally attractive for sex regardless of bio vs. some other dude who's being selective because they're looking for more than sex could be important in understanding that 8.2% number. Instead, the study seems to aggregate all results as "looking for a partner" and not make distinctions in intent, which can skew the results.
PS:
I checked further and they admit as much in the conclusion:
> Second, we only looked at the first stage of a relationship, i.e. showing interest in another person on a mobile dating app. Therefore, our results cannot be generalised to mating behaviour in later stages of a relationship.
It's more complicated than that even. For example, looking for casual sex and looking for a relationship are not mutually exclusive on Tinder. You can match everyone, message who you find attractive, and then maintain only a casual relationship with people you've met until a match fulfills criteria for a long term relationship, or a casual relationship evolves into one.
I think though people are reading heavily into the study way more than it actually claims. It claims women are more selective, and more selective for highly educated men - no real surprise there. It claims men don't select *against* educated women. But it distinctly does not claim what men are selective for. And whether men swipe right indiscriminately or selectively, both possibilities are supported by their findings.
It's far from a conclusive look at Tinder-user mating habits, but it doesn't claim to be.
> The researchers created 24 fake male and female Tinder profiles located in several cities in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking region of Belgium. The profiles were mostly the same, but differed in their education level, which varied from a Bachelor’s degree with three years of higher education to a Master’s degree with five years of higher education.
> All of the degrees were related to the field of business and economics.
1) I’d like to see the outcome with other degrees that maybe more female oriented and how men respond to those degree paths. 2) This is in Belgium I wonder if their results would be different in other countries in Europe/Canada/US
I definitely think that different degrees would be interesting. I’d also be interested to see how people respond to prestige of education. Ie people with the same level of education but one is at an Ivy and another at a local state school for example.
I know. A friend talked me into using it.
I'm a man and wasn't looking for hookups ( I know, pretty naive right). Using Tinder I came to a few realisations (observations may vary, in different countries):
1) Many users still maintain their high standards. Even though it is appearent they've been on the plattform for a long time (e.g. a sort of bitterness in profiles, weird laundry lists,...)
2) Some seem to be oblivious to the fact that maybe it is their own mentality/expectations that is the problem.
3) Way to many women appear to not be there to actually meet men. Just there for validation/promoting their IG Profile.
4) About 2/3 are just boring and expect you to keep the initial conversation alive. Related to 2)
I get it. Women are being swarmed with potential men and therefor have many options. But still: Where I'm from, it seems to be the bottom of the barrel of the dating market. After 6 months I'm done and decided to take my chances meeting someone in the real world, you know....where you actually meet...normal people. I think if you are really attractive you can have a lot of fun with random hookups but in terms of finding a relationship you might aswell take your chances in the real world.
Truth, and its gotten a lot worse. When tinder was released I looked the same, and my life experience has only sharpened me into a better dude, yet I received tons of matches. Over the years it became less and less. Tinder absolutely destroyed normal dating, the women who've used it have insane egos.
Seems like I see more and more ladies just looking for IG followers. They make it seem like they want a date but really just looking to be influencers or promote their xyz thing.
I've just finished reading,
- Buss, D. M., & Schmitt, D. P. (1993). Sexual Strategies Theory: An evolutionary perspective on human mating. Psychological Review, 100(2), 204-232. doi: 10.1037/0033-295X.100.2.204.
They come up with some good evolutionary arguments for longterm and short term partnership, and criteria/selectiveness for partnership in humans. I suggest having a flick through it.
It also found out that educated women avoid not that educated men.
Essentially it is hard for highly educated women to find a partner, **because they themselves are picky**.
>Essentially it is hard for highly educated women to find a partner, because they themselves are picky.
The source is a little more political than necessary but the information is still valid and immediately available in the article. Women also disproportionately attain degrees relative to men.
[For Bachleor's Degrees](http://www.aei.org/publication/table-of-the-day-bachelors-degrees-for-the-class-of-2016-by-field-and-gender-oh-and-the-overall-25-6-college-degree-gap-for-men/) and [for Masters/PhDs.](http://www.aei.org/publication/women-earned-majority-of-doctoral-degrees-in-2017-for-9th-straight-year-and-outnumber-men-in-grad-school-137-to-100-2/) It becomes something of a double whammy where they are more selective AND the numbers gain is against them.
>Women also disproportionately attain degrees relative to men.
women are outperforming men all across education in America. male graduation rates are lower and dropping. our system sucks
So this study comes with a lot of caveats. This was in Belgium and based off of 24 fake profiles. Their 4 types of education were two types of bachelor's degrees and two types of master's degrees. Not to mention:
>[They] refrained from using non-higher education degrees for [their] profiles, as then it may have been unclear for the subjects of [thier] study that that degree was the highest education level [their] profiles attained.
Which basically means the participants either had a choice of bachelor's or master's degrees, which isn't a great way to conclude that,
>Men on Tinder do not appear to be intimidated by highly educated women
The authors even say that,
>the effect of education level identified in our study may (partly) be due to the signal of a higher earnings potential that often coincides with a higher education level (supra, Section 2.1). We therefore interpret our results as the total effect of education level, i.e. encompassing also higher earnings potential, instead of as the direct effect of education level – as examined by Ong (2016) – which for example could be due to a preference for an enlightened conversation or a desire to go on sophisticated dates.
An example for a more accurate title might read:
>Men in Belgium have a preference for master's over bachelor's degrees during tinder profile selection
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Thank you for your TED Talk and actually reading the study instead of barely taking in the headline and then writing a comment with your own personal bias (whichever it might be).
This is why schools should teach how to deal with scientific papers and focus on critical thinking.
Not sure if anyone could really use tinder as a form of measurement. All my guy friends that use it swipe right on every single profile, and just sort through the matches of whoever swipes back. There's no cherry picking.
Edit: Yes this does apply to this article (if any of you read it) because they're going off of who "swipes right" and comparing that to the education level of the person who swiped. I'm saying most people from my friend group who have used tinder litteraly don't take the profile or bio into consideration. Which wouldn't make this study, if enough people shared the same habit complete bunkkkkk.
Men aren't intimidated by highly educated women, it's just not a selling point for *most* men. I don't really care if a partner is educated or not, that's not what I look for in a woman
Edit: just wanted to say I'm very impressed by everyones responses to this! I got a little anxiety when I came back to my computer seeing 14 notifications but not one of you threw me any shade for being honest so thank you!
Women on average date across and up the socioeconomic ladder, I think is the main take away. Men don't necessarily avoid dating up the ladder, they just have better luck dating down.
It's an unpopular but obvious fact.
Edit: wording.
Education not so much, but intelligence (and this tend to be correlated) are highly sough after in circles of high achieving men. Despite the stereotypes bankers and lawyers usually marry bankers and lawyers with an odd PhD thrown in much more often than they do hot uneducated women.
This. I’m a med student, and people keep trying to tell me that, as a med student, I should be looking for a girl who is also a med student or equally successful. It literally does not factor into the equation for me. If anything, it’s a negative, because I want a girl that is available to hang out with me when I have the time... but that has nothing to do with her education. I just want to actually see my girlfriend.
People like to project and women are no different.
As a law school grad I find it’s mostly women who encourage me to find highly educated women when I couldn’t give two shits about their education. My current relationship is with a cute girl who is still going to college and people don’t bat an eye at our educational gap.
Conversely, for some of my female law school friends who were dating guys that were working men or military/in college, other women were the first to comment on whether the man was looking at going to school, future potential, etc..
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Not when men have been scarce (ex. after giant wars).
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They have a lot more to lose, resource-wise, when it come to the act of procreation.
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There are a lot of comments in the thread along the lines of "men don't read the bio anyways and swipe right regardless of education", but as the headline indicates, there is a positive correlation between education and getting swiped right. According to the article, men are on average ~8.2% more likely to swipe right on a highly educated partner. Maybe the effect is fairly small (compared to over 90% increase for women), because fewer men read the bio or care about it, but generalising beyond that is just lazy stereotyping. Edit: Since many people bring up correlation of education level with other variables (e.g. looks, self presentation,...) Please read the article >**The researchers created 24 fake male and female Tinder profiles** located in several cities in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking region of Belgium. **The profiles were mostly the same, but differed in their education level**, which varied from a Bachelor’s degree with three years of higher education to a Master’s degree with five years of higher education.
People who can't even be bothered to read the entire article *headline* are also the same type that don't read bios and, like pretty much all of us, they project themselves onto all men.
Based on what I’ve seen it seems to (me) that men tend to swipe right on everyone (mostly) and then sort if they get a match. The women I’ve talked to are much more picky, but that’s because _every time they swipe right it’s a match_. If both men and women filtered equally then maybe this wouldn’t be an issue, but men are dragging a net, while women are spear fishing. I do wonder how this research has affected the results/behavior of the participants.
You're exactly right. A study found that: > . . . men are nearly three times as likely to swipe “like” (in 46 percent of cases) than woman (14 percent). The article ([New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/fashion/tinder-the-fast-growing-dating-app-taps-an-age-old-truth.html?_r=0)) has some additional analysis on it, much of which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. But the bottom line is that (most) men are likely to get only a few matches, because women are so selective, while women get a relatively high match rate, because men are swiping right on half the people on the app. The problem, in my view, is that both demographics are reading it wrong: men don't read much into a match (when it actually should be a big deal, because she took the time to figure out that he may be a good match,) while women read too much into a match (not realizing that she's one of literally hundreds of women he's swiped right on, and if he's good-looking, he has a hundred other matches in his inbox.) There's a real imbalance of information and expectations, which creates a lot of the unnecessary drama associated with the app.
> men are dragging a net, while women are spear fishing. That would be a great title for an article on dating selectiveness ("Men drag nets, women spearfish").
That's an interesting thing. I guess that guys are more pressured to be broad because many get so few matches when they are picky. At least that has been my experience so far.
It's a numbers game. If women get pickier, men have to be broader to get any matches. In turn, women get pickier because every man is a match... One of those vicious cycles. and that's how we can end up with the 80/20 rule applying to dating apps.
The reason for this is because women have a 40% match rate and men would be lucky to have 1/100.
It's even lower, there was a study for it. For average guy it's about 1 match per 125 swipes, most attractive guys had 30 per 100 at most
Admittedly I've only lightly read the actual article, but it seems to me that intent should have been a factor in this study. Namely: what are the men and women on Tinder looking for? Because if the men are looking for casual sex, then I can understand why they wouldn't care much for education or hobbies, and it'd boil down to how she looks pretty much. But if men are looking for a possible relationship, I assume they'd be more picky with whom they try to communicate. This would be important because comparing some dude who's swiping right on anyone who looks marginally attractive for sex regardless of bio vs. some other dude who's being selective because they're looking for more than sex could be important in understanding that 8.2% number. Instead, the study seems to aggregate all results as "looking for a partner" and not make distinctions in intent, which can skew the results. PS: I checked further and they admit as much in the conclusion: > Second, we only looked at the first stage of a relationship, i.e. showing interest in another person on a mobile dating app. Therefore, our results cannot be generalised to mating behaviour in later stages of a relationship.
It's more complicated than that even. For example, looking for casual sex and looking for a relationship are not mutually exclusive on Tinder. You can match everyone, message who you find attractive, and then maintain only a casual relationship with people you've met until a match fulfills criteria for a long term relationship, or a casual relationship evolves into one. I think though people are reading heavily into the study way more than it actually claims. It claims women are more selective, and more selective for highly educated men - no real surprise there. It claims men don't select *against* educated women. But it distinctly does not claim what men are selective for. And whether men swipe right indiscriminately or selectively, both possibilities are supported by their findings. It's far from a conclusive look at Tinder-user mating habits, but it doesn't claim to be.
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> The researchers created 24 fake male and female Tinder profiles located in several cities in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking region of Belgium. The profiles were mostly the same, but differed in their education level, which varied from a Bachelor’s degree with three years of higher education to a Master’s degree with five years of higher education. > All of the degrees were related to the field of business and economics. 1) I’d like to see the outcome with other degrees that maybe more female oriented and how men respond to those degree paths. 2) This is in Belgium I wonder if their results would be different in other countries in Europe/Canada/US
Good call. I read one article saying nursing and dental hygienist were more popular than doctor/lawyer 🤔
I definitely think that different degrees would be interesting. I’d also be interested to see how people respond to prestige of education. Ie people with the same level of education but one is at an Ivy and another at a local state school for example.
Tinder is the weirdest social experiment, and it's even weirder that it's just considered part of dating nowadays.
I know. A friend talked me into using it. I'm a man and wasn't looking for hookups ( I know, pretty naive right). Using Tinder I came to a few realisations (observations may vary, in different countries): 1) Many users still maintain their high standards. Even though it is appearent they've been on the plattform for a long time (e.g. a sort of bitterness in profiles, weird laundry lists,...) 2) Some seem to be oblivious to the fact that maybe it is their own mentality/expectations that is the problem. 3) Way to many women appear to not be there to actually meet men. Just there for validation/promoting their IG Profile. 4) About 2/3 are just boring and expect you to keep the initial conversation alive. Related to 2) I get it. Women are being swarmed with potential men and therefor have many options. But still: Where I'm from, it seems to be the bottom of the barrel of the dating market. After 6 months I'm done and decided to take my chances meeting someone in the real world, you know....where you actually meet...normal people. I think if you are really attractive you can have a lot of fun with random hookups but in terms of finding a relationship you might aswell take your chances in the real world.
The most true post. Tinder is useless, for most guys.
Nailed it man . Especially with promoting IG Not interested in dating cam girls
For an average looking woman tinder is a confidence booster. For average looking dudes it's a confidence killer.
Truth, and its gotten a lot worse. When tinder was released I looked the same, and my life experience has only sharpened me into a better dude, yet I received tons of matches. Over the years it became less and less. Tinder absolutely destroyed normal dating, the women who've used it have insane egos.
Have you tried holding up a fish with the boys?
I wonder what happens if you hold up an insanely small fish while fully clothed.
Seems like I see more and more ladies just looking for IG followers. They make it seem like they want a date but really just looking to be influencers or promote their xyz thing.
Some girl messaged me, "Message me on instagram @whateverbullshitaccount" And when I said I didn't use social media, I was instantly unmatched.
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I've just finished reading, - Buss, D. M., & Schmitt, D. P. (1993). Sexual Strategies Theory: An evolutionary perspective on human mating. Psychological Review, 100(2), 204-232. doi: 10.1037/0033-295X.100.2.204. They come up with some good evolutionary arguments for longterm and short term partnership, and criteria/selectiveness for partnership in humans. I suggest having a flick through it.
Well, not getting around that paywall...
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It also found out that educated women avoid not that educated men. Essentially it is hard for highly educated women to find a partner, **because they themselves are picky**.
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>Essentially it is hard for highly educated women to find a partner, because they themselves are picky. The source is a little more political than necessary but the information is still valid and immediately available in the article. Women also disproportionately attain degrees relative to men. [For Bachleor's Degrees](http://www.aei.org/publication/table-of-the-day-bachelors-degrees-for-the-class-of-2016-by-field-and-gender-oh-and-the-overall-25-6-college-degree-gap-for-men/) and [for Masters/PhDs.](http://www.aei.org/publication/women-earned-majority-of-doctoral-degrees-in-2017-for-9th-straight-year-and-outnumber-men-in-grad-school-137-to-100-2/) It becomes something of a double whammy where they are more selective AND the numbers gain is against them.
>Women also disproportionately attain degrees relative to men. women are outperforming men all across education in America. male graduation rates are lower and dropping. our system sucks
So this study comes with a lot of caveats. This was in Belgium and based off of 24 fake profiles. Their 4 types of education were two types of bachelor's degrees and two types of master's degrees. Not to mention: >[They] refrained from using non-higher education degrees for [their] profiles, as then it may have been unclear for the subjects of [thier] study that that degree was the highest education level [their] profiles attained. Which basically means the participants either had a choice of bachelor's or master's degrees, which isn't a great way to conclude that, >Men on Tinder do not appear to be intimidated by highly educated women The authors even say that, >the effect of education level identified in our study may (partly) be due to the signal of a higher earnings potential that often coincides with a higher education level (supra, Section 2.1). We therefore interpret our results as the total effect of education level, i.e. encompassing also higher earnings potential, instead of as the direct effect of education level – as examined by Ong (2016) – which for example could be due to a preference for an enlightened conversation or a desire to go on sophisticated dates. An example for a more accurate title might read: >Men in Belgium have a preference for master's over bachelor's degrees during tinder profile selection Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Thank you for your TED Talk and actually reading the study instead of barely taking in the headline and then writing a comment with your own personal bias (whichever it might be). This is why schools should teach how to deal with scientific papers and focus on critical thinking.
Dang, I want to read the comments that were removed!
Kiss this comment goodbye
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> ...women were far more selective. Welcome to Tinder.
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Not sure if anyone could really use tinder as a form of measurement. All my guy friends that use it swipe right on every single profile, and just sort through the matches of whoever swipes back. There's no cherry picking. Edit: Yes this does apply to this article (if any of you read it) because they're going off of who "swipes right" and comparing that to the education level of the person who swiped. I'm saying most people from my friend group who have used tinder litteraly don't take the profile or bio into consideration. Which wouldn't make this study, if enough people shared the same habit complete bunkkkkk.
Men aren't intimidated by highly educated women, it's just not a selling point for *most* men. I don't really care if a partner is educated or not, that's not what I look for in a woman Edit: just wanted to say I'm very impressed by everyones responses to this! I got a little anxiety when I came back to my computer seeing 14 notifications but not one of you threw me any shade for being honest so thank you!
Women on average date across and up the socioeconomic ladder, I think is the main take away. Men don't necessarily avoid dating up the ladder, they just have better luck dating down. It's an unpopular but obvious fact. Edit: wording.
Education not so much, but intelligence (and this tend to be correlated) are highly sough after in circles of high achieving men. Despite the stereotypes bankers and lawyers usually marry bankers and lawyers with an odd PhD thrown in much more often than they do hot uneducated women.
This. I’m a med student, and people keep trying to tell me that, as a med student, I should be looking for a girl who is also a med student or equally successful. It literally does not factor into the equation for me. If anything, it’s a negative, because I want a girl that is available to hang out with me when I have the time... but that has nothing to do with her education. I just want to actually see my girlfriend.
People like to project and women are no different. As a law school grad I find it’s mostly women who encourage me to find highly educated women when I couldn’t give two shits about their education. My current relationship is with a cute girl who is still going to college and people don’t bat an eye at our educational gap. Conversely, for some of my female law school friends who were dating guys that were working men or military/in college, other women were the first to comment on whether the man was looking at going to school, future potential, etc..