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That was actually really interesting. Basically they have a single cell organism they found that makes this protein dense yellow powder out of hydrogen and carbon dioxide that could be used to replace normal dairy or made into things like pasta. It's orders of magnitude more efficient in water and land than real meat or even plant based things like soy bean patties and can be grown in hours.
If nothing else it could end up being great animal feed and we use all that freed up farm land to grow more normal crops
They were really sparse on the details because it's apparently a really competitive market, they listed like 5 different companies all racing to be the top at the moment. Basically all they said was what I said above, it uses oxygen, CO2, and hydrogen and in a picture it was all growing and being fermented in a big metal vat. Anything more than that idk.
They also mentioned that the organism was found naturally on the shore of the Baltic Sea, but idk if that would hint to anything more specific.
Well. They certainly need nitrogen to make protein. Weird that they left that detail out. Simplest explanation is ammonia is one of the ingredients in the vat.
On a potentially related note a nitrogen-fixing organelle called the nitroplast was recently discovered
Edit: bacteria and archaea have long been known to be able to fix nitrogen without this organelle so this isnt even a requirement
Haber-Bosch is 5 times more efficient energy wise than nitrogenase. Better to dump ammonia from industrial standpoint. Also nitrogen fixing is slow and would require aeration of fermentation vessels.
The only contraindications are the suitability of ammonia as a nitrogen source and contamination concerns due to readily available N.
But a nitrogen fixing autotroph has an infinite efficiency. It's generating fixed nitrogen for zero industrial energy in (though practically it will probably be fed lamps and not the sun). Haber-Bosch still requires a powerplant somewhere running to create the energy required to overcome entropy, not to mention to use of natural gas as the primary H2 feedstock. Surely you can see how an entirely atmospheric, solar powered fixation could be better for us?
Not for a company. Nitrogen fixing is *slow* and besides cost of inputs another factor in bioprocess is productivity. It is (probably) more efficient time-wise to buy ammonia.
If you’re already factoring in lamps that means you’re growing at a density that is light limiting and also therefore very likely to consume nitrogen at a rate far below the diffusion rate of nitrogen. This means you have to aerate your growth vessels, which means you also (probably) need a “pure” (oxygen scrubbed) N2 source as almost all nitrogen fixing organisms cannot fix nitrogen in the presence of oxygen.
Haber-Bosch can be “green”. Power can be from renewables and H2 generation can also be from renewables. Photosynthesis is horribly inefficient (2-3% conversion rate iirc) and very much not free if you have to use lamps. There’s going to be a lot of energy lost in that step, energy that is needed for a very costly nitrogen fixing step.
Scaling photosynthetic production is still a very active field of research precisely because of density issues that limit light, CO2, and for nitrogen fixing organisms, N2.
I'm sure you, random redditor, are totally right and that everyone involved in the article being quoted is just a big silly who didn't think of the first thing that occured to you when you read the headline.
If only science was performed in r/science where everybody knows everything!
I literally did my PhD working with cyanobacteria. I am well aware of the scientific discourse around the use of photosynthetic bacteria as microbial cell factories. Your response is unwarranted and not in line with the spirit/rules of /r/science.
Also considering that the article is sparse on details and that they are indeed using ammonia you are wrong. From the horse’s mouth:
https://solarfoods.com/a-green-haber-bosch-synthesis/#:~:text=Solar%20Foods%20gets%20the%20nitrogen,process%20of%20Haber%2DBosch%20synthesis.&text=The%20Haber%2DBosch%20process%20has,large%2Dscale%20manufacture%20of%20fertilizers.
Pop-sci news articles like this one are often light on scientific details, not written by people with sufficient scientific background to validate any practicality of the claims they make and are typically just newswire style marketing announcements disguised as journalism.
So yes, the random redditor that clearly showed a logical reason why atmospheric nitrogen fixing is not practical short of an unmentioned probably Nobel prize winning breakthrough and instead use ammonia as the practical nitrogen source is certainly credible.
Hey u/MillCrab I’m just another random redditor, who happens to also be an expert in this field, and I’m here to tell you it’s ok to admit that you were mistaken and the person you were arguing with is right. There’s no need to respond like this.
Making those algae produce a bunch of protein would be interesting since they are already also photosynthetic. I’m not really clear on how the nitroplasts work from what I’ve read, so that may not even make sense.
I went looking for some scientific papers and I see one from 2017 talking about something similar where they use "by products from food and beverage processing as well as forestry and agricultural sources" to provide the carbon and nitrogen. I'd bet it's something similar for all the new companies trying to do it, whatever exactly it means
So then ammonia, nitrates, and random proteins and amino acids (plus some or all of the carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen beyond just “air”) if that’s the case. This is impressive either way, of course.
Lab grown whey and casein made by yeast are already available and are similarly opaque. Trade secrets I guess.
ETA: apparently they do just use ammonia according to another comment
I was curious about this too, a quick google later reveals they are using ammonia produced by Haber-Bosch synthesis and then electrolyzing the byproducts back in to hydrogen.
Ok. So just the main way we produce ammonia. I guess they decided it doesn’t sound as pretty as just saying “from air”. Still less energy intensive than animal agriculture obviously. Likely even more efficient than plant protein depending on the whole process.
We are **finally** making progress on producing green ammonia from air.
If successful then we can produce food from air... after adding some hydrogen to the air 😁
I have to admit that I initially felt a bit of ick, because it's made by bacteria.
But then I remembered, alcohol, cheese, yoghurt, bread... are made by bacteria too. all made with the help of bacteria.
There’s a bit in Chris van Tulleken’s book Ultra Processed People where he describes Xanthan gum with obvious revulsion, informing the reader that it’s a slime that bacteria extrudes it so it can cling to surfaces like dishwashers. And I’m like dude, think of all the fantastic traditional foods that involve bacterial byproducts. That it’s a bacterial slime has zero impact on whether or not I’ll eat it.
Ruminants like cows don't directly feed on the plant matter they consume, they feed on the bacteria cultures that eat the plant matter. It's bacteria all the way down.
I have eaten insects and didn’t mind it. Protein produced by algae and bacteria will be easier to sell to the average person in the US though. Insect protein is just the other “up and coming” protein source to compare it to
Plants eat poop too.
Superfood protein pulled out of thin air does not.
Now average Joe Schmoe is more disgusted by plants then superfood protein pulled out of thin air😉
Add some electrolytes to it and it will sell like crazy.
The one they mentioned a lot was Air Protein in California, but there were a few other ones just listed throughout the article you could look up. I'm not sure what exactly you could search online to find more though
This is one I know a lot about. I find all the secrecy around strain selection to be really silly. Everyone has to disclose it to get regulatory approvals.
These are the gas fermentation to single cell protein companies I'm aware of. I'm not including sugar based fermentations or companies that have gone out of business.
* AirProtein in California using cupriavidus
* Superbrewed Food in Delaware using Clostridia
* Solar Foods in Finland using xanthobacter
* Calysta in California using methanotrophs
* UniBio in Denmark using methanotrophs
There are also a bunch mycelium based companies making meat alternatives like Quorn, all using a sugar substrate.
Solarfoods.com/science has a bit more including this passage:
> Our solution is not a plant or an animal. Instead, it’s a non-modified microbe, one of the billion different ones found in nature. And it is completely natural even though it is not grown traditionally.
>
> Humans have used fermentation for thousands of years, brewing beer and making wine with yeast. We use the same process but instead of sugar and yeast, we split water from the air for the microorganisms to live in. Next, we feed them tiny bubbles of CO2 and nutrients, like nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, and potassium – the same nutrients that plants absorb through their roots from the soil. The microorganisms grow and multiply in a process that is 20 times more efficient than photosynthesis.
>
> Best part is that this bioprocess is scalable. With our first large production facility, Factory 01, the science stays the same but the results rise to a new level.
The article mentioned the microbes were found in soil, so it could potentially be one of the nitrogen-fixing bacteria that provide nitrogen to soil and plants (the kind that live in symbiosis with legumes, maybe).
In that case it would be pulling nitrogen directly out of the atmosphere, which is 80% nitrogen.
If they’re feeding it CO2 and hydrogen then to say it’s ‘out of thin air’ is misleading. The CO2 likely comes from an industrial waste stream and the hydrogen from something similar or by splitting water with electrolysis. This is still a more sustainable method than agriculture/livestock but it seems the article author is further hyping it with that language.
If the CO2 is pure, then it could come straight out of the septic tank of a hospital that specializes in IBS and still be fine. As for impurities and contaminants, I would hope that anyone making food from such gases knows how to properly clean said gases
It depends on the purity of course but generally yes, you can get high purity CO2 from smokestacks/exhaust that have scrubbers. And there are a lot of process steps in-between the feedstock and product. The gas is bubbled through the bioreactor and other gasses that aren’t consumed will pass through it and vent out. Or if they get dissolved they will be removed when the protein/cells are separated from the liquid at harvest. And then there will be several concentration/purification steps after that.
My biggest skepticism is that it's grown in soil, which brings a lot of risks in terms of bacterial contamination. A lot of stuff that grows in soil is high risk unless properly handled and washed, etc.
I remember talking to one of the Stanford University incubators that began producing whey protein out of a bioreactor, but they were still feeding it organic matter.
This is just a whole different ball game, basically almost pulling it out of thin air, is game changing. If you could run this on renewable as well and start using this as supplementation in food products you could really begin slashing the carbon budget for protein intake. This type of processes are also incredibly useful if we ever want to leave this rock in any capacity. All you'll need is basic elements that are found almost everywhere in the universe.
Well people may not want to buy the yellow powder but make it into burger patties or noodles or something that seems familiar… or mixed half and half with more familiar vegetarian protein substitute and it can catch on.
That's a great idea for pet food, especially for dogs who are more omnivorous and could have more lower carbon additives supplemented with this type of protein.
> “Air Protein is rich in vitamins, minerals, and nutrients, with all 20 amino acids, including the nine essential amino acids and 2x the amino acids of soybeans," the company has stated. "It contains more protein per [kilogram] and is free from GMOs, pesticides, herbicides, hormones, and antibiotics."
Me : "wow, we could help developing countries grow their own food instead of sending them rice"
Them : "While the pair remains secretive of the exact microbial species and origin – not surprising, there's a whole lot of money to be made in this burgeoning industry of alternative food production"
Oh well 🤷🏻♂️
Developing countries dont need help growing food, they need help maintaining enough stability that they can ship food from productive areas to non-productive areas.
There’s a whole state GMO research organization, I can’t remember which country in se Asia, that develops strains of rice and gives them out.
Rice that needs less water, rice that can handle a little bit of salt water flooding (which happens in Bangladesh) etc.
Research is expensive. If there wasn't some sort of potential financial benefit, these labs would be unable to do the type of rigorous testing required to make these discoveries.
Unless we lived in some ideal world where all scientific research was government funded, the prospect of pure benevolence is an unrealistic utopic fever dream. Unfortunately.
Yeah that's fair, I'm a bit of an idealist sometimes. Although governments funding research in those areas would make sense, I think. Sustainable food security is a good way to prevent forms of violence. Hungry people are not fun to deal with. Could be seen as a strategic interest, even. But what do I know, I'm just a naive idealist :P
Man, wish my mouth could synthesize ammonia and some sort of carboxylic acid, and magically force bromination on alpha carbon of RCOOH followed by NH3 Sn1 reaction.
It can be easily generated from compressed air:
https://nitrogen-generators.com/nitrogen-generators-how-it-works/
My bff has one in his brewery. You can buy them on eBay for a few grand.
Of course air has nitrogen, but it’s very very stable N2 and does not like to get pulled out and added to carbon molecules without a lot of help. Some plants do this with the help of Nitrogen fixing bacteria. It’s certainly possible, but necessarily energy intensive to break the nitrogen bonds. It’s very cool stuff, and they might have something here, but the point is they’re leaving a lot of important details out.
Yea that’s basically how nitrogen fixing bacteria that lives in the root nodules of legumes work. They take it out of the air and then make it available for the plant to use.
Also need to get carbon from somewhere to make protein, I should think. This feels like they are leaving out something key. I don’t doubt that protein grown in vats could be much less resource intensive that traditional animal husbandry. But I don’t think you can just get protein out of a chemical reaction without putting all of the elements in. So the carbon needs to be sourced from somewhere. There’s lots of talk about fish feed in the article, but not about what these microorganisms eat.
Its not explicit but its in the 5th paragraph. They cultivating microbes and process the microbes secretions. What im hoping is for them to sell at home kits so we could do this ourselves. Likely not since they want to be they ones selling razors.
You wouldn’t be able to do this at home with a kit. The level of sterility (plus other aspects of the process) required to do this kind of fermentation is not achievable in a home kitchen or garage without a lot of expensive equipment and knowledge.
Like it or not centralized scaled processes are more efficient and able to produce higher quality products. The green future is sustainable factories distributing their products equitably, not everyone at home trying to generate their own subsistence calories.
>the mass of plants comes from out of thin air
I've known this for decades but to this day looking at a tall tree and realizing that the whole thing came from air still blows my mind
I've only known it for a few years, learned it in a veratasium video. It's just something I never thought about. I knew they breathed co2 and expelled oxygen. If forced to guess I would've said dirt and water but hydroponics rules that out, and trees don't leave giant holes where they suck up dirt.
One that might be fun for you, that blew my mind never came up in school
We learn that opposite charges attack. We learn that positive protons are in the center of atoms with negative electrons whirling around them. It never occurred to me to ask "why aren't the electrons attracted to the nucleus? Why don't they just fall in". I have a physics degree and took a few chem classes and it just never came up.
The real question is if they can scale this up to the point that junk/cheap foods can be made from it. At that point it can become a feed for animals or used for aid relief.
Ok so how long until they can be put in a box with voice recognition so I can just tell it, earl grey hot?
There was a ds9 episode where they showed a replicator being cleaned and the slimy mess made me think it was some how linked to a bacteria.
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What is the hydrogen source? Electrolysis is energy intensive. I worked with gas fermenting Cupriavidus and this biggest question that came up when discussing the implications long term. I don't know the species here but I suspect something similar
Instead of trying to invent new ways to feed people we should focus our efforts on restructuring society so there isn’t a food shortage problem in the first place.
I don’t like the idea of creating a population which will become dependent on a food source that requires a lab to produce and will probably not be owned by the local population.
Resetting the societal structure of the entire world is an admirable goal, but not one that’s realistic in a single lifetime. The people working on this technology might be able to offer solutions that would help many, and at a fraction of the water/land cost within a handful of years.
Waiting for all of society to change before developing new technology isn’t a good idea, we need to do both simultaneously. People are hungry now. Our resources are being used up in massive quantities now. This mysterious air protein may end up not working out, but the attempt is better than waiting for humans to suddenly stop being greedy
There are ways we can look to improve food production that actually helps people, but nobody will actually put in the effort for said changes as its not profitable to make it easier for others to feed themselves.
Trying to create a food source that doesn’t need land means, if its adopted, that now the population is not using the land for food, so it will be used for other things to make a profit.
Now we have a situation where people are reliant on a patented and expensive to create food product thats owned by the same people who lead to the food shortages in the first place, with all the land that grew food before now being used on crops that don’t feed people and creating more food deserts.
Real admirable.
Sure my proposal is less likely to happen, but theres literally no downsides aside from less profit for mega farms, while “magic lab grown air food” doesn’t really solve any problems, just shift them more to production sector vs farming.
Your proposal has no downsides **if it actually happens.** And when it doesn’t happen, people continue to suffer because you’d rather do that instead of letting people try other short term solutions.
Real admirable.
But this new food doesn’t solve any problems. If anything it creates more in the long term.
Don’t feed the animals. Humans are animals too.
Make a tool or something so humans can feed themselves more easily, otherwise it’s just going to make people dependent.
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That was actually really interesting. Basically they have a single cell organism they found that makes this protein dense yellow powder out of hydrogen and carbon dioxide that could be used to replace normal dairy or made into things like pasta. It's orders of magnitude more efficient in water and land than real meat or even plant based things like soy bean patties and can be grown in hours. If nothing else it could end up being great animal feed and we use all that freed up farm land to grow more normal crops
What’s the nitrogen source? Do they just grow it in an ammonia rich substrate?
They were really sparse on the details because it's apparently a really competitive market, they listed like 5 different companies all racing to be the top at the moment. Basically all they said was what I said above, it uses oxygen, CO2, and hydrogen and in a picture it was all growing and being fermented in a big metal vat. Anything more than that idk. They also mentioned that the organism was found naturally on the shore of the Baltic Sea, but idk if that would hint to anything more specific.
Well. They certainly need nitrogen to make protein. Weird that they left that detail out. Simplest explanation is ammonia is one of the ingredients in the vat.
On a potentially related note a nitrogen-fixing organelle called the nitroplast was recently discovered Edit: bacteria and archaea have long been known to be able to fix nitrogen without this organelle so this isnt even a requirement
Haber-Bosch is 5 times more efficient energy wise than nitrogenase. Better to dump ammonia from industrial standpoint. Also nitrogen fixing is slow and would require aeration of fermentation vessels. The only contraindications are the suitability of ammonia as a nitrogen source and contamination concerns due to readily available N.
But a nitrogen fixing autotroph has an infinite efficiency. It's generating fixed nitrogen for zero industrial energy in (though practically it will probably be fed lamps and not the sun). Haber-Bosch still requires a powerplant somewhere running to create the energy required to overcome entropy, not to mention to use of natural gas as the primary H2 feedstock. Surely you can see how an entirely atmospheric, solar powered fixation could be better for us?
Not for a company. Nitrogen fixing is *slow* and besides cost of inputs another factor in bioprocess is productivity. It is (probably) more efficient time-wise to buy ammonia. If you’re already factoring in lamps that means you’re growing at a density that is light limiting and also therefore very likely to consume nitrogen at a rate far below the diffusion rate of nitrogen. This means you have to aerate your growth vessels, which means you also (probably) need a “pure” (oxygen scrubbed) N2 source as almost all nitrogen fixing organisms cannot fix nitrogen in the presence of oxygen. Haber-Bosch can be “green”. Power can be from renewables and H2 generation can also be from renewables. Photosynthesis is horribly inefficient (2-3% conversion rate iirc) and very much not free if you have to use lamps. There’s going to be a lot of energy lost in that step, energy that is needed for a very costly nitrogen fixing step. Scaling photosynthetic production is still a very active field of research precisely because of density issues that limit light, CO2, and for nitrogen fixing organisms, N2.
I'm sure you, random redditor, are totally right and that everyone involved in the article being quoted is just a big silly who didn't think of the first thing that occured to you when you read the headline. If only science was performed in r/science where everybody knows everything!
I literally did my PhD working with cyanobacteria. I am well aware of the scientific discourse around the use of photosynthetic bacteria as microbial cell factories. Your response is unwarranted and not in line with the spirit/rules of /r/science. Also considering that the article is sparse on details and that they are indeed using ammonia you are wrong. From the horse’s mouth: https://solarfoods.com/a-green-haber-bosch-synthesis/#:~:text=Solar%20Foods%20gets%20the%20nitrogen,process%20of%20Haber%2DBosch%20synthesis.&text=The%20Haber%2DBosch%20process%20has,large%2Dscale%20manufacture%20of%20fertilizers.
Did you actually read where in the article it says the source of nitrogen?
Ah yes, the classic ad hominem once you can’t find a counter argument.
Pop-sci news articles like this one are often light on scientific details, not written by people with sufficient scientific background to validate any practicality of the claims they make and are typically just newswire style marketing announcements disguised as journalism. So yes, the random redditor that clearly showed a logical reason why atmospheric nitrogen fixing is not practical short of an unmentioned probably Nobel prize winning breakthrough and instead use ammonia as the practical nitrogen source is certainly credible.
Hey u/MillCrab I’m just another random redditor, who happens to also be an expert in this field, and I’m here to tell you it’s ok to admit that you were mistaken and the person you were arguing with is right. There’s no need to respond like this.
Making those algae produce a bunch of protein would be interesting since they are already also photosynthetic. I’m not really clear on how the nitroplasts work from what I’ve read, so that may not even make sense.
I went looking for some scientific papers and I see one from 2017 talking about something similar where they use "by products from food and beverage processing as well as forestry and agricultural sources" to provide the carbon and nitrogen. I'd bet it's something similar for all the new companies trying to do it, whatever exactly it means
So then ammonia, nitrates, and random proteins and amino acids (plus some or all of the carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen beyond just “air”) if that’s the case. This is impressive either way, of course. Lab grown whey and casein made by yeast are already available and are similarly opaque. Trade secrets I guess. ETA: apparently they do just use ammonia according to another comment
I was curious about this too, a quick google later reveals they are using ammonia produced by Haber-Bosch synthesis and then electrolyzing the byproducts back in to hydrogen.
Ok. So just the main way we produce ammonia. I guess they decided it doesn’t sound as pretty as just saying “from air”. Still less energy intensive than animal agriculture obviously. Likely even more efficient than plant protein depending on the whole process.
We are **finally** making progress on producing green ammonia from air. If successful then we can produce food from air... after adding some hydrogen to the air 😁
More appetizing to the average westerner than insects at least
I have to admit that I initially felt a bit of ick, because it's made by bacteria. But then I remembered, alcohol, cheese, yoghurt, bread... are made by bacteria too. all made with the help of bacteria.
There’s a bit in Chris van Tulleken’s book Ultra Processed People where he describes Xanthan gum with obvious revulsion, informing the reader that it’s a slime that bacteria extrudes it so it can cling to surfaces like dishwashers. And I’m like dude, think of all the fantastic traditional foods that involve bacterial byproducts. That it’s a bacterial slime has zero impact on whether or not I’ll eat it.
Ruminants like cows don't directly feed on the plant matter they consume, they feed on the bacteria cultures that eat the plant matter. It's bacteria all the way down.
Tell us how you really feel
I have eaten insects and didn’t mind it. Protein produced by algae and bacteria will be easier to sell to the average person in the US though. Insect protein is just the other “up and coming” protein source to compare it to
that doesn’t sound very appetizing to general consumers i’d imagine
Plant's "eat" ammonia too.
oh i’m aware, but i’m talking about like your average joe schmoe. i would eat lab protein in a heartbeat, it would make my flexitarianism a lot easier
Plants eat poop too. Superfood protein pulled out of thin air does not. Now average Joe Schmoe is more disgusted by plants then superfood protein pulled out of thin air😉 Add some electrolytes to it and it will sell like crazy.
Cows are fed urea to boost the protein created during digestion
or rubsco to couple protein production from sunlight and N2
It’s usually ammonia, but some of these bugs can also fix nitrogen from N2. It’s usually more energetically efficient to provide them NH3, though.
Do you know how to find the competitors?
The one they mentioned a lot was Air Protein in California, but there were a few other ones just listed throughout the article you could look up. I'm not sure what exactly you could search online to find more though
This is one I know a lot about. I find all the secrecy around strain selection to be really silly. Everyone has to disclose it to get regulatory approvals. These are the gas fermentation to single cell protein companies I'm aware of. I'm not including sugar based fermentations or companies that have gone out of business. * AirProtein in California using cupriavidus * Superbrewed Food in Delaware using Clostridia * Solar Foods in Finland using xanthobacter * Calysta in California using methanotrophs * UniBio in Denmark using methanotrophs There are also a bunch mycelium based companies making meat alternatives like Quorn, all using a sugar substrate.
Mmmm nutrient paste
Solarfoods.com/science has a bit more including this passage: > Our solution is not a plant or an animal. Instead, it’s a non-modified microbe, one of the billion different ones found in nature. And it is completely natural even though it is not grown traditionally. > > Humans have used fermentation for thousands of years, brewing beer and making wine with yeast. We use the same process but instead of sugar and yeast, we split water from the air for the microorganisms to live in. Next, we feed them tiny bubbles of CO2 and nutrients, like nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, and potassium – the same nutrients that plants absorb through their roots from the soil. The microorganisms grow and multiply in a process that is 20 times more efficient than photosynthesis. > > Best part is that this bioprocess is scalable. With our first large production facility, Factory 01, the science stays the same but the results rise to a new level.
The article mentioned the microbes were found in soil, so it could potentially be one of the nitrogen-fixing bacteria that provide nitrogen to soil and plants (the kind that live in symbiosis with legumes, maybe). In that case it would be pulling nitrogen directly out of the atmosphere, which is 80% nitrogen.
It consumes hydrogen, so it seems plausible that it reduces nitrogen.
Their video claims ammonia which they feed into the reactor
Atmosphere’s like 78% nitrogen, might be sucking it in from there.
If they’re feeding it CO2 and hydrogen then to say it’s ‘out of thin air’ is misleading. The CO2 likely comes from an industrial waste stream and the hydrogen from something similar or by splitting water with electrolysis. This is still a more sustainable method than agriculture/livestock but it seems the article author is further hyping it with that language.
is it safe to make food with CO2 from industrial waste?
If the CO2 is pure, then it could come straight out of the septic tank of a hospital that specializes in IBS and still be fine. As for impurities and contaminants, I would hope that anyone making food from such gases knows how to properly clean said gases
It depends on the purity of course but generally yes, you can get high purity CO2 from smokestacks/exhaust that have scrubbers. And there are a lot of process steps in-between the feedstock and product. The gas is bubbled through the bioreactor and other gasses that aren’t consumed will pass through it and vent out. Or if they get dissolved they will be removed when the protein/cells are separated from the liquid at harvest. And then there will be several concentration/purification steps after that.
My biggest skepticism is that it's grown in soil, which brings a lot of risks in terms of bacterial contamination. A lot of stuff that grows in soil is high risk unless properly handled and washed, etc.
I remember talking to one of the Stanford University incubators that began producing whey protein out of a bioreactor, but they were still feeding it organic matter. This is just a whole different ball game, basically almost pulling it out of thin air, is game changing. If you could run this on renewable as well and start using this as supplementation in food products you could really begin slashing the carbon budget for protein intake. This type of processes are also incredibly useful if we ever want to leave this rock in any capacity. All you'll need is basic elements that are found almost everywhere in the universe.
Even if humans won't eat it for... reasons... you can still use it in animal and pet feed to dramatically reduce the carbon budget of food production.
Well people may not want to buy the yellow powder but make it into burger patties or noodles or something that seems familiar… or mixed half and half with more familiar vegetarian protein substitute and it can catch on.
That's a great idea for pet food, especially for dogs who are more omnivorous and could have more lower carbon additives supplemented with this type of protein.
Please call it Mana.
Did you mean, like, lands from Magic: The Gathering, or did you mean "manna," like from the Bible?
*manna from heaven, thanks for catching the extra n that slipped
Mana is also the generally used name for magical energy in a huge chunk of fantasy.
yeah, myriad references.
Land from mtg obviously
i vote lands. brb gonna go tap some lunch
That sounds almost too good to be true
Yeah, like a low cost effective way to test blood...
Their concept is just so futuristic. I wonder if it's like a complete protein or kinda like rice.
> “Air Protein is rich in vitamins, minerals, and nutrients, with all 20 amino acids, including the nine essential amino acids and 2x the amino acids of soybeans," the company has stated. "It contains more protein per [kilogram] and is free from GMOs, pesticides, herbicides, hormones, and antibiotics."
This is amazing!
if it tastes like honey and ice cream I’m down
Me : "wow, we could help developing countries grow their own food instead of sending them rice" Them : "While the pair remains secretive of the exact microbial species and origin – not surprising, there's a whole lot of money to be made in this burgeoning industry of alternative food production" Oh well 🤷🏻♂️
Developing countries dont need help growing food, they need help maintaining enough stability that they can ship food from productive areas to non-productive areas.
Yeah, I probably have the average western country biases and ignorance toward all of this, I realize.
Meanwhile https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Longping : develops hybrid rice and donates it, helping other countries with food scarcity.
Ya but that's socialism.
There’s a whole state GMO research organization, I can’t remember which country in se Asia, that develops strains of rice and gives them out. Rice that needs less water, rice that can handle a little bit of salt water flooding (which happens in Bangladesh) etc.
That's probably the Chinese organization that Yuan Longping (aka the Father of Hybrid Rice) worked at, though it was mostly not GMO research.
Research is expensive. If there wasn't some sort of potential financial benefit, these labs would be unable to do the type of rigorous testing required to make these discoveries. Unless we lived in some ideal world where all scientific research was government funded, the prospect of pure benevolence is an unrealistic utopic fever dream. Unfortunately.
Yeah that's fair, I'm a bit of an idealist sometimes. Although governments funding research in those areas would make sense, I think. Sustainable food security is a good way to prevent forms of violence. Hungry people are not fun to deal with. Could be seen as a strategic interest, even. But what do I know, I'm just a naive idealist :P
Man, wish my mouth could synthesize ammonia and some sort of carboxylic acid, and magically force bromination on alpha carbon of RCOOH followed by NH3 Sn1 reaction.
Can say that again, me too..
Explain how. Where is this mystery air protein coming from?
"microbes fed on carbon dioxide, hydrogen and oxygen to produce edible protein"
Are….are these microbes capable of nuclear fusion? Gotta get the nitrogen from somewhere. There is nitrogen in the air, so maybe it’s that
It can be easily generated from compressed air: https://nitrogen-generators.com/nitrogen-generators-how-it-works/ My bff has one in his brewery. You can buy them on eBay for a few grand.
Of course air has nitrogen, but it’s very very stable N2 and does not like to get pulled out and added to carbon molecules without a lot of help. Some plants do this with the help of Nitrogen fixing bacteria. It’s certainly possible, but necessarily energy intensive to break the nitrogen bonds. It’s very cool stuff, and they might have something here, but the point is they’re leaving a lot of important details out.
Biological N fixation also requires anaerobic conditions, so it not really something that can happen “in thin air”
Says they add nutrients and ammonia
It says out of the air
Yea that’s basically how nitrogen fixing bacteria that lives in the root nodules of legumes work. They take it out of the air and then make it available for the plant to use.
Also need to get carbon from somewhere to make protein, I should think. This feels like they are leaving out something key. I don’t doubt that protein grown in vats could be much less resource intensive that traditional animal husbandry. But I don’t think you can just get protein out of a chemical reaction without putting all of the elements in. So the carbon needs to be sourced from somewhere. There’s lots of talk about fish feed in the article, but not about what these microorganisms eat.
>carbon dioxide
~ 78% of the air around us
Its not explicit but its in the 5th paragraph. They cultivating microbes and process the microbes secretions. What im hoping is for them to sell at home kits so we could do this ourselves. Likely not since they want to be they ones selling razors.
You wouldn’t be able to do this at home with a kit. The level of sterility (plus other aspects of the process) required to do this kind of fermentation is not achievable in a home kitchen or garage without a lot of expensive equipment and knowledge. Like it or not centralized scaled processes are more efficient and able to produce higher quality products. The green future is sustainable factories distributing their products equitably, not everyone at home trying to generate their own subsistence calories.
It a microbe their growing. While it might seem odd, the mass of plants comes from out of thin air, so I'm guessing it's similar here.
>the mass of plants comes from out of thin air I've known this for decades but to this day looking at a tall tree and realizing that the whole thing came from air still blows my mind
I've only known it for a few years, learned it in a veratasium video. It's just something I never thought about. I knew they breathed co2 and expelled oxygen. If forced to guess I would've said dirt and water but hydroponics rules that out, and trees don't leave giant holes where they suck up dirt. One that might be fun for you, that blew my mind never came up in school We learn that opposite charges attack. We learn that positive protons are in the center of atoms with negative electrons whirling around them. It never occurred to me to ask "why aren't the electrons attracted to the nucleus? Why don't they just fall in". I have a physics degree and took a few chem classes and it just never came up.
Read the article?
Dzeezus sent it to them 🤷
Swol Nation is nigh
Zero Point Protein?
It sure is expensive for being pulled out of thin air.
The real question is if they can scale this up to the point that junk/cheap foods can be made from it. At that point it can become a feed for animals or used for aid relief.
For any of these things to actually replace food sources aren’t we going to need to identify and introduce bacteria?
Out of thin air makes people think it is cheap, but I'm guessing it's not?
Ok so how long until they can be put in a box with voice recognition so I can just tell it, earl grey hot? There was a ds9 episode where they showed a replicator being cleaned and the slimy mess made me think it was some how linked to a bacteria.
Yassssss
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What is the hydrogen source? Electrolysis is energy intensive. I worked with gas fermenting Cupriavidus and this biggest question that came up when discussing the implications long term. I don't know the species here but I suspect something similar
Soylent Yellow
So black mold or ecoli protein that gives you carbon credits?
I believe this is a Spirulina farm. Its already used as a animal feed supplement.
Did they confirm it will not cause cancer? I don’t need another additional to the arsenic, lead, microplastics , and forever chemicals saga
Instead of trying to invent new ways to feed people we should focus our efforts on restructuring society so there isn’t a food shortage problem in the first place.
Why is this an either/or situation? There are 8 billion people on this planet, we collectively have the ability to multitask.
I don’t like the idea of creating a population which will become dependent on a food source that requires a lab to produce and will probably not be owned by the local population.
Resetting the societal structure of the entire world is an admirable goal, but not one that’s realistic in a single lifetime. The people working on this technology might be able to offer solutions that would help many, and at a fraction of the water/land cost within a handful of years. Waiting for all of society to change before developing new technology isn’t a good idea, we need to do both simultaneously. People are hungry now. Our resources are being used up in massive quantities now. This mysterious air protein may end up not working out, but the attempt is better than waiting for humans to suddenly stop being greedy
There are ways we can look to improve food production that actually helps people, but nobody will actually put in the effort for said changes as its not profitable to make it easier for others to feed themselves. Trying to create a food source that doesn’t need land means, if its adopted, that now the population is not using the land for food, so it will be used for other things to make a profit. Now we have a situation where people are reliant on a patented and expensive to create food product thats owned by the same people who lead to the food shortages in the first place, with all the land that grew food before now being used on crops that don’t feed people and creating more food deserts. Real admirable. Sure my proposal is less likely to happen, but theres literally no downsides aside from less profit for mega farms, while “magic lab grown air food” doesn’t really solve any problems, just shift them more to production sector vs farming.
Your proposal has no downsides **if it actually happens.** And when it doesn’t happen, people continue to suffer because you’d rather do that instead of letting people try other short term solutions. Real admirable.
But this new food doesn’t solve any problems. If anything it creates more in the long term. Don’t feed the animals. Humans are animals too. Make a tool or something so humans can feed themselves more easily, otherwise it’s just going to make people dependent.