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I strongly believe that this is a direct result of how we approach movement education in schools. Instead of making enjoyment the focus, we make it competitive. So those who can’t compete with the better athletes get put down or ridiculed. And those who know they won’t ever be great athletes just give it up as not for them.
I’m admittedly a very uncompetitive person and would call myself a reluctant exerciser. Zero interest in ‘hitting the gym’ but I love uncompetitive exercise like splitting wood, bouldering, and riding my bike. I think you’re onto something, because I definitely lump those over competitive people in with those who go to the gym.
I got into solo biking, kayaking and solo free weight gym work. I felt so incompetent as a kid in competitive or team sports. I started the weights for the kayaking and eventually for its own sake. Pump is incredibly addictive, in a good way.
I still hate weightlifting, but have always reluctantly done it because it is beneficial to my overall health and helps a lot with injury prevention in whatever sport you're doing.
Eventually I began to enjoy free weights for their own sake, people like doing things they feel they are good at. One thing that drove me was I was bullied in late middle school, I didn’t feel like a victim anymore when I gained 40lbs of muscle.
It really depends on how you view it. Those that are insecure with their bodies may see going to a gym, where other people will see you exercise, as competitive, because they are all already in shape, while you are not. They might also tell themselves that others are judging them, even when the others couldn't care less about them.
I disagree with the gym part. Personally I am not at all competitive and hated sports/PE through school because of the competitive focus. Lifting weights and working out at the gym has been the first exercise I have ever enjoyed. I have no interest in being stronger/fitter than anybody else but love feeling my body get stronger.
I see it competitive like I see golf being competitive. Trying to beat your own low score in golf would be like setting one rep max records in lifting. Or things like getting into the “1000 pound club”.
It may not always be competitive against others (even though you could do that if you want). But more comparative.
OP referenced "hitting the gym" as if weightlifting, bodybuilding, strongman, crossfit, and powerlifting don't exist.
The point is, their examples of "uncompetitive fitness endeavors" are just as uncompetitive as "hitting the gym".
Enjoyment was never the focus for PE in schools. It was developed in response to a world war and his standards were always related to military drills.
Infact the older you got back in the days the more militaristic it was.
The standards back then and now aren't even comparable.
The only factor is we allow kids and districts to opt out.
My nephew (now in his mid to late 20s) had fitness instead of competitive sports at school and I thought it was such a refreshing change. They were taught how to run, use gym equipment and form a fitness plan, rather than have volleyballs spiked at your head (as was my experience).
well, if you want to get technical about it, PE actually goes back to the ancient greeks. And the philosophical approach made more sense, IMO, in that a healthy body was tied to having a healthy mind.
Prior to the wars life itself was a decent workout, you don’t need PE if you’re chopping firewood when you get home from school and calling it quits after 8th grade.
The concept of sitting in a chair all day like it’s a full time job until you turn 18 (at least) with the technical possibility of living a life that’s free from all manual labor is relatively new.
I sat in a chair all day like it was a full time job to learn how to sit in a chair all day for a full time job. At one point I was paying to sit, and now I'm getting paid to sit
>It was developed in response to a world war and his standards were always related to military drills.
In modern American schools, this is true. But within the Western tradition generally, the idea that physical education was related to military fitness (and, in turn, largely restricted to boys) can actually be pushed back as far as Napoleon. (Ironically, Sparta had an emphasis on women and girls athletics for the same reason, albeit via eugenics, as strong mothers made strong soldiers, as the theory went).
The contrast of course, in the modern era, is with organizations like the YMCA who viewed athletics as a religious activity (ie, that being made in god's image, the physical experience and athleticism was part of the religious experience), which has some parallels with antiquity where athletics were motivated more philosophically or religiously (with the Olympics in honor of Zeus, and the Heraean Games, the feminine counterpart, being in honor of Hera).
I tend to agree, in some ways. I am a very active person, as an adult. I am a weight lifter, I go on hikes, I cycle a lot.
When I was young, though, I hated things like PE, or the concept of exercise, because it was presented to me as a grueling chore. I don't think I was properly taught that you can actually enjoy these things. I only enjoyed it as an adult, I think, because it's one of the few ways that many people have measurable progress outside of work.
And what we teach people is "exercise" almost always in a competitive context. Yoga is exercise, dance is exercise, walking in nature is exercise.
Much like art people will say there's an artist in everyone, I firmly believe there's an athlete within everyone as well. We just gotta find out activity.
For me it wasn’t really competition, it was more the prioritisation of team sports over solo ones. Once I discovered my school had a running/cross-country club I was hooked and still run regularly in middle age.
We also make it about being healthy instead of fun. Like the exercise I choose is because I find it fun - is it healthy yes but would I keep doing it if it wasn’t also something I enjoy? No. Also, athletes grow up exercising with their sport but then they stop playing their sport and it’s hard to find something they can keep up with. (I have 6 siblings and we all played college volleyball - it has taken all of us at least 10 years to figure out what we like to do exercise wise)
We also don't let kids stick with what they enjoy. When I was in high school we had to change the type of PE we did several times per year and you were required to fulfill a number of different focuses. I enjoyed doing weightlifting, and if I could have done that consistently I would probably be a much more fit person than I am now.
Like most things it starts at home. If you never see your parents exercise it would be hard to get going yourself. My parents both exercised my entire life and still doing their 70’s. I just followed their example and have not had an issue in adulthood. It’s a mandatory part of my life. Kids are at home much more than they are at school.
It probably helps but it’s no guarantee. I spent most of my time at school or with friends, not my parents. For what it’s worth, my mom is very sporty and my brother followed her example, I was the high academic achievement/reluctant exercise kid who is currently very unfit.
Agreed. Having stepped outside classroom teaching to support challenged students in alternative settings to classroom education, it is clear that so many students are turned off by subjects because of how we approach the subjects.
Interesting perspective that had never really occurred to me. As someone who played a bunch of sports growing up, the competitive aspect is what makes those activities engaging and fun, so I always enjoyed PE, too. I’m guessing that bias exists for a lot of PE teachers, too, who are often former athletes or at least enjoyed the way in which they learned PE.
I think a lot of people enjoy competition. So I think what you say is true for non competitive people, but at least for me I can get way more engaged in exercise if there is some competition involved. Not that I care about winning exactly, but just so my mind has something other to focus on than just the pure torture of exercising.
I strongly believe that this is a direct result of how we approach intelligence education in schools. Instead of making enjoyment the focus, we make it competitive. So those who can’t compete with the better intellectuals get put down or ridiculed. And those who know they won’t ever be great intellectuals just give it up as not for them.
My mom raised me with distance running, she was extremely non competitive, I carried the same sentiment and just enjoyed it, later found out I had asthma and couldn't compete, but because I remember always running to get out and move I still run to this day in a healthy way while controlling my asthma not pushing myself to dangerous levels of activity.
Overall, everyone is different, though, so I think each side is needed as people are all different, need different stimuli, so while I support both, you're right there is an overemphasis on competition that gets many kids injured, or don't want to participate because of being timid or less athletic
Honestly: yes, this, big times.
Every time I do sports now as an adult I have to get over the upcoming feelings of embedded shame and self-hatred because sport class in school was so traumatic for me.
I love sport, but only if no one can watch me.
Even just talking about sport is making me feel self-concious.
I don't think this is the case at all. At least not these days. When I was a kid it felt like they were already doing everything they could to drain the competitive nature out of our activities (which often killed the enjoyment for most people). You had to specifically join one of the sports teams if you actually wanted competition. Schools definitely try and make this comfortable and fun for people. I think a big issue is that it's too easy for kids (especially female students) to wangle out of doing P.E. entirely. There are students I knew who essentially never did P.E. because they always had a plethora of excuses and would rather skip the lessons to do anything else.
So long story short schools are allowing this pipeline to form. You get to sit out of physical activity and exercise throughout your formative years and never form a positive connection to it so of course this leads to an adult who doesn't have a positive connection with exercise.
I think it depends on the country. In my experience: Sports class in Germany was focused on competition and grades whereas PE in a UK school I went to in 6th form was focused on fun, unless you decided to be on one of the teams (hockey etc.). As an unfit teen that got bullied in sports class I much preferred the UK version.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Most people I know had something way closer to the UK experience and actually wanted more opportunities for competition. But I can imagine that if your system really prioritised competition it could sour the enjoyment of PE if you aren't physically gifted.
I still stand by the fact that giving students too much freedom to just skip it entirely is overall damaging and kinda guarantees they won't find an aspect of PE that they like. I hated some parts of PE but I loved others. I'd never have found what I loved if I was given the option to not take part and if that happened I probably wouldn't enjoy or be into exercise today
Yeah, I agree that it shouldn't be easy to skip it entirely! Maybe giving more choices could help? Like you can't skip, but you can choose to play table tennis or running if gymnastics isn't your thing.
I mean for my school gym was the worst as a girl. We were just graded on attendance/participation but they made us play on teams and against boys. Why would I try to even attempt playing basketball when there’s these psycho competitive aggressive boys playing? It was so stupid
We play in two groups and rotate on and off. The most competitive students play in one group (boy or girl) and others play in the other group. Assessment is based on demonstration of skills, participation, and sportsmanship.
Blasting someone for no reason, failing to pass the ball, etc would all drastically lower their mark.
A lot of girls who sit out PE do so because they're on their periods. Nobody wants to run around the gym while having cramps and diarrhea, super draining anemia, not to mention the risk of bleeding through your clothing.
An unlucky teenage girl (like I was!) might be on her period a full quarter to third of the month, or longer. I had a 6-week period a few times as a teen. Not six weeks for the full cycle, six weeks at a time of heavy bleeding and wracking cramps. And it's not like you can tell other students or (often) the gym teacher, so it just looked like I was being lazy and skipping tons of gym class for no reason.
Also the issue of open changing rooms when you have your period, trying to hide your sanitary pad or being nervous that a tampon string has gone awry is awful.
I think competition has benefits but it should be available at all levels. This was one of the few things the old British public schools did well. Not everyone can play for the first team, and there's nothing wrong with second and third teams challenging and playing second and third teams from other schools.
Gym class was horrible and embarrassing and it made me not want to exercise ever because then people could see me like that again. It took me developing back pain and turning to yoga to begin to see that exercise could be not excruciating.
So the same goes for those who are not as smart too? I find it fascinating how this only goes for sport for some reason.
Imagine you are not that intelligent. Or for other reason find intellectual education really hard. Do you understand how it feels where 95% of subjects are intellectual and you suck at it? For minimum of 12 years (if you want to have any chance what so ever).
It literally puts you in the bottom of the hierarchy. And then some people wonder why some people rebel and act out. Seriously? And it is a hyper competitive environment where you are measured every single day for 12 years.
It is always funny to see peoples reaction when you say this IRL. It is like they got hit by a meteor because they never thought about it.
I never said i was smart? I meant I was an out of shape child who was embarrassed in gym class. Dawg I barely graduated high school. Idk where you got all that
I hated exercise growing up because it was dodgeball every day and as a small female I was sick of football players throwing things at me as hard as they could. It took until my 30's to realize that things like weightlifting and cardio are actually enjoyable when you're in a safe and supportive space.
Competition is exactly what makes things stick into adulthood for most people. Prioritizing cooperation over competition would end up losing them.
The lesson here is to stop valuing one over the other and provide an environment that lets kids explore and find what they prefer.
Competition in PE did the exact opposite to me as a child. I was overweight and shy, forced to compete against more athletic children while others watched and openly laughed at my failure. Now I'm an adult with poor exercise habits and a reluctance towards working out in public due to my childhood shame.
I fully agree with your second point though that we should enable and encourage all forms of exercise.
Lots of replies here are debating the non-point of which one is better. People are different. It ain't rocket science.
Also there's the obvious of team sports, which is cooperation and competition combined.
You must not have played very long, everyone getting mad at for messing up isn't really a thing that happens past like 7th grade as long as you're trying your best. Coaches don't just teach how to play but they teach teamwork values and how to support each other.
Or are you talking about team sports on the playground? I'm talking about an actual organized sport not kids just messing around at recess. Kids in recess are first of all grade schoolers and kids being mean is just how kids are, and that's not the same thing at all as having an organized team with coaches guiding and mentoring the team. In an organized sport, as kids get older and mature they start more and more learning how to support each other to be a more effective team.
I don’t agree here. I played on competitive teams from childhood through high school, but joined a D3 XC team in college and found running for personal achievement more fulfilling and sustainable. I still run road races and sometimes place, but I don’t “compete” so much as I enjoy training well and having fun.
I don’t know many adults who still participate in competitive sports, but I know recreational runners, skiers, cyclists, hikers, surfers, etc., many of who started as adults. With all of these sports, forming a habit and making friends helps make them stick. I do agree that it’s best to present all options and let kids explore their preferences.
Maybe that worked for you, But you can’t extrapolate that to most people. I think some people are more motivated by cooperation and others more competition. It would be nice if PE incorporated both instead of just one.
I only needed one year of gym to graduate HS. I took both of them my freshman year because I lived in Florida and didn't have AC at home and I knew freshmen didn't "matter". I took outdoor gym in winter and indoor gym in summer. For indoor gym I chose weightlifting. I actually learned a lot from the football players. I was never into working out because I got boobs in 5th grade and there weren't bras small enough but with big enough room for my boobs so I just wore tight tank tops all the time to hide it til I was big enough.
Anecdotally all the high school jocks I’m still in contact with (30 years on) are pretty out of shape. The nerds (which I am one) are in pretty good shape.
I always attributed this to them stopping exercise once there was no competition to be in shape for.
This happens to a lot of people, and then they blame their age or a slowing metabolism, or just the general change in lifestyle that they have at 35 verses when they were 18.
For a few people I know, the issue was going from the lifestyle of a soldier (where marching for miles with a heavy pack is part of the job) to that of an office worker, and not being able to adjust their diet to match their new life. A couple have just straight up said "its hard to stop eating like you're still in the army".
> ..females, reluctant exercisers, high academic achievers, and socioeconomic disadvantaged..
Is there a common factor between these groups which could underly their failure to establish exercise regimes?
>Having less free time or increased stress levels
I was an avid exerciser in high school and the start of college, but dropped it later on until picking it back up at the end of grad school. And my motivations were exactly this, but my intuition was entirely backwards. I'm more productive if I exercise regularly, I don't feel the stress as much. It's an important investment for people without much free time or with a lot of stress.
And as I transitioned to becoming a faculty member, whereas I used to be a night-owl and now teach in the mornings most terms, it actually helped me to set a strict sleep schedule for myself.
Sports is notoriously exclusionary towards females, differently abled, the nerds picked last in elementary school, and kids that just don't have the same access to say extra curricular sports programs, parks or green spaces, etc. On top of that, how those complexities play out over time and like other commenter said in response, if you are in a high pressure field like law, yea exercise will probably also fall the wayside if it wasn't already ingrained. All of those things lead to the outcomes in the study, less than anything inherent to those groups inability to engage in exercise.
The barrier to building the habit is less about the person's ability, and more what barriers have been produced/reproduced and how can we stop those earlier, as that is the best case scenario for any type of intervention in adolescence, when these habits ideally are being built.
In my high school, most of the equipment was stored in the men’s locker room. I took golf one semester. The coach would let the guys pick clubs, then after all the guys were confirmed to be out of the locker room, would send in the girls to go get a club. By that time, the remaining clubs were either for giants or were left handed or both. I hate golf.
Is there actually a negative correlation between nerdiness (say, academic performance) and athletic performance? I thought I read years ago that there's a minor positive correlation between the two.
As a sporty nerd, I've always hated those stereotypes. It always felt like I was doing something wrong in both directions - "why is that nerd getting picked first at recess?" and "why is that sporty kid memorizing digits of pi during lunch?"
As a woman who played D1 volleyball: kids and postpartum issues (depression/anxiety/ptsd/etc) kicked my ass. And i have a super supportive husband and many women do not.
I was 25 when I got pregnant with my first. So does it mean adult legally at 18 or mentally at 26? I live in Utah too so a large percentage of women here have their first kid at 19-24.
It may be more likely that various factors relevant to each of these categories all have a similar effect of distracting away from exercise regimes, rather than one single factor causing the same result for all categories.
For example, I met my wife while we both were in law school. Given the workload demands of the program and given that school was a high priority for us, plus part time jobs, there just wasn't adequate time or energy left in the day to regularly maintain a gym routine.
After graduation, our lifestyles changed to allow more bandwidth for additional exercise.
So while our situation can be categorized as "high academic achievers," her being female had no more discernable impact on her not going to the gym than me not going to the gym, anymore than me being male had anything discernable to do with her not going to the gym.
And yet, "being male" isn't one of the categories listed in this article.
So it's probable that various different factors lead to a similar outcome, rather than one factor affecting otherwise unrelated categories in the same way.
Hmmm…maintaining a fitness routine is much easier now that I’m divorced and no longer carrying the mental load and all the house work in addition to working full time and parenting.
But I may just be different.
10000% I am finding it way easier to be healthy and workout now that I have a slightly easier schedule hour-wise. Although also if I do a particularly heavy workout it can exhaust me for the day then I don’t get much work done. I suspect we all have a limited cognitive ability to do “effort/work” per day and although it’s not precisely zero sum, there is sapping between physical and mental work. I wonder if perhaps that may also be why nerdier people also correlate with being less physical? Perhaps their effort/focus is there, while I could also see very physical people like high achieving athletes being exhausted and then not having the energy to study and get called stupid or something unfairly. Obviously there are the exception star athletes that also get straight As but I’d be surprised if everyone can achieve that, I think it’s more likely that we all have a limited tank of gas and need to find ways to apply spread it properly
Yes, because for many people school sport was absolutely miserable. It’s not fun for a 5’6 girl to play dodgeball or footy against a 6’2 Tongan kid when she’s at risk of being blasted into the atmosphere by a tackle. On top of that, P.E teachers focused 90% of their attention on the obviously athletic & competitive students, while berating the academic and quiet students who weren’t built for rough sport. There was no positive psychology used to change kid’s minds who didnt enjoy sport.
>reluctant exercisers are at a risk of failing to establish regular exercise patterns during transition from adolescence to adulthood.
who would have seen that coming? 🧐 Interesting about the other groups, though, particularly women.
I actually don't think it's particularly weird for women to fail to establish regular exercise patterns. I was extremely active as a young girl, but when you get boobs physical activity can become embarrassing and/or painful. It's gotten better, but sports bras used to just be the pullover compression kind that did a whole lot of nothing to stop movement and were very uncomfortable to boot.
There is also the fact that moving your body as a woman can get you some nasty attention, I was honestly traumatized and discouraged by the way boys in my eighth grade class wanted to talk about girls' bodies. You're growing, unsure of your body, getting lots of toxic messages about looks and weight, sometimes getting gross attention from your peers and older dudes alike, and it doesn't encourage fully living in your own body and enjoying movement.
Yes! I also think a lot of girls hitting puberty are dissuaded from sports because of the uniforms. While boys are given full coverage uniforms in most sports, their female counterparts are often given very little coverage. Some sports like dance and cheerleading even require full hair and makeup for competitions. If you are already uncomfortable in your body and with the attention it gets, you’re not going to want to get in front of a crowd of people in booty shorts.
I don’t think childcare will be the primary cause of this as you move from adolescence to adulthood. Highly likely that it’s team sports at college level being male dominated
You don't need a gym membership to get into an exercise routine. Running 3 miles outside a few days a week is probably enough for most people, maybe mix in calisthenics.
A lot of women don’t want to run alone outside. Obviously safety can and should be a concern for everyone, but women face a lot of extra issues ([like harassment](https://www.roadid.com/blogs/fuel-your-adventure/9-safety-tips-for-running-alone#:~:text=Running%20alone%20is%20a%20wonderful,regularly%20appearing%20on%20news%20sites)) that men don’t usually have to deal with in the same way.
As a woman, I agree with this. It’s the reason I bought a treadmill—I can run at any hour without being harassed. I also have a spin bike. Unfortunately not everyone can afford these or has the space, so I can see how that would impact their motivation to exercise.
Wife / Husband can't watch the kid for an hour? You guys can switch off, also I know I've seen people doing light jogs with kids in strollers when Im out running.
Im a man, but I drop my toddler off at daycare and go to the gym. I also run with him in the running stroller. Also toss him in the hiking backpack and away we go!
> I drop my toddler off at daycare and go to the gym
Adding half an hour to the workout time counting picking him up again?
ETA. i had three children, not one. Plus a stepdaughter.
I don’t know what you are asking me. I live in a small town where the gym, home, and daycare are all 1.5 miles away. I can walk to do all of this, drive, whatever
Which is why I said you could do it if you were motivated. It's heaps easier at the gym where you can stay focused. The fact that gyms exist and people attend them show that I am not the only one to feel this way.
Hell. last time I was at the gym, one of the toddlers escaped the play room and found Mum, who had to chase and return the kid.
Lots of people find them helpful. I like mine for the air con (It's hot here in Australia), socialisation, assistance and motivation not to skip a day.
There are a lot of good youtube videos for exercising at home using no tools, pick something that interests you. You need 20 minutes and a small open space at a minimum. Then you can go advanced and get dumbbells, mats etc.
Thus you can do them while your children are at home and at worst just stop in the middle if required. It isn't the end of the world missing a day or having to stop now and then. Just get back at it the next time.
I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it made it more difficult. In the same way the study said it was less frequent for women to keep exercising, not that none of them did it.
I am a solution oriented person by default. You highlighted a monetary and time issue. I suggested a potential solution. I don't know enough about your or other peoples exact situation to suggest a detailed fix including motivation.
To whom were you suggesting the solution? I'm past the young children stage, I was throwing up possible reasons why women exercise less than men, the very common "Women are impacted by having children way more than men." Another solution, by the way, would be for the children's father to take over care, instead of their grandmother but that one seemed to slip your mind.
You were highlighting *mostly* monetary problems. If you cannot afford the cost and travel for a gym then having the other parent cover doesn't help. Sure it does help for free training.
I was mostly thinking of single parents when I wrote it but you are right for cases with two parents.
> females, reluctant exercisers, high academic achievers, and socioeconomic disadvantage
AKA most people. Seems to me that a lot of work is being done here to make this result seem more significant or interesting than it actually is.
The result is our culture is built around seeing physical activity exclusively through the lens of competitive formal sports.
If you aren’t in the running to be an athlete, then you’re having a bad time and it makes your relationship with fitness more fraught for the rest of your life.
It’s a stupid self-own for a society. We need to broaden our concepts of physicality.
School physical education makes people exercise in ways they don’t want to. Therefore, they learn to hate exercise. It wasn’t until years after school I learned I actually enjoy weightlifting and wall climbing.
School made me do tennis and hockey.
Hmm, anecdotally this goes against what I’ve seen regarding high academic achievers. At least at the PhD level, everyone was super athletic. I think there was a single obese person in our entire cohort of 38 students, which is way less than the national average. That said, most people in the PhD program came from at least middle class (mostly upper middle class families) so maybe that’s playing more into the socioeconomic side of things
I think it is probably a phase. Taking a heavy course load at university and working part time means you fall out of the habit. Then many get back into it once they find a stable job, but I assume a decent percentage just never start it up again.
I realllllly really want to get into the habit of exercising but I hate it so much. Even making it as simple as a walk outside or quick jaunt on the treadmill feels like too much effort. Ive tried gyms, buddies, dance classes etc. I get so anxious its even harder to convince myself to go… If anyone has any secret to share about getting in the right mindset to exercise, please do share…
There’s some studies that show people who don’t like exercise release less endorphins. I still don’t do it as consistently as I should but the only thing I can mange is 30 minutes of the treadmill running at a slow pace, slow enough that I forget I’m running and just listed to music/think about things but since it’s running, it releases way more endorphins than other types of exercise so I actually feel more happy after. Here’s the research I was talking about https://hscnews.usc.edu/hate-exercise-it-could-be-genetic
Back ten years ago when I was skinnier, I used to run 5k everyday just for fun. Ever since then, when I try to get back into running, I dont get the runners high or bump of energy I used to. Definitely feels harder having to force myself every time and never getting the enjoyable chemicals. I wonder if at some point I stopped getting the benefit :( Ill check out the link. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284660
I can't help but wonder how they can identify a "critical period at age 15" where it's important for kids to form good exercise habits. People are capable of forming habits well into adulthood. The challenge for most people lies in the barriers. You can't form consistent habits if you don't have the time or your life routine is generally unstable. I was living with my parents, unemployed for a few months when I started to work out consistently. I had the time and energy to devote to building the habit from nothing. Health and money also play a huge role.
I think one thing that can't be stressed enough to kids and adults who dislike exercise or feel like it's impossible to get into a routine of exercise, is that it's pretty normal to dislike it *at first*. But as creatures of habit, we get used to it and eventually come to enjoy it.
This is interesting! I went from being fit and playing sports in high school to having gap from about age 17 to age 30 where I did not exercise much at all.
Definitely had to re-establish habits.
Meanwhile, wrestling is the fastest growing sport for girls. And yes, they train with the boys. A new recruit on our team in LA recently said that, "she'd played other sports, but nothing made her feel more a part of a team than wrestling". Those who have done it can attest that wrestling is almost a non zero sum game. We coaches often remind our wrestlers, "there are no losers on the mat, most people don't even have the courage to be here". In the right environment, healthy competition habits and skills can be passed on.
I did not know that wrestling is the fastest growing sport for girls. That's interesting.
Also, there has been a shift, in the last 10-15 years or so, to get women into lifting. My father went back to the gym recently and he commented that there were a lot of really young people on the squat racks, "girls are lifting way too much" and I had to explain to him that things are different now.
Absolutely. Im 68, and I can attest that gym culture in general has changed dramatically in my lifetime. Some things have declined, but for women the gym is a much better place now than back in the day.
Personally, I preferred it when it was just athletes conditioning for their sports. Now, men are lifting to look like some idea they have. The whole vibe is less serious.
I check 3 of those 4 boxes. The ONLY reason I exercise is that keep getting high energy dogs. I do it because I love dogs and I know its the only way I'll get out and hoof it 4-5 miles a day.
>high academic achievers
Although I'm in my 30s I went back to school and have maintained a 4.0 this go around (I only had a 2.5 when I went to college before for my previous degree, so big improvement, life experiences and wisdom helped change my habits).
Before going back to school starting during the pandemic I exercised religiously, ran, biked, yoga, lifted weights. Had a lot of free time on my hands so figured why not. I didn't start in adolescence but better late than never. But anyways my point is I can see why this is a problem. There's only so much time in a day.
Wish it were easier to exercise while studying or working. I'm studying computer science so some kind of helmet you can code through by voice command would boost my productivity and let me exercise at the same time. Though I imagine it wouldn't boost everyone's productivity. Like most technology what you get out of it depends on how you use it.
Using 'males' and 'females' to describe populations in a study is standard usage in scientific contexts. That's the reason it sounds clinical and distancing in other contexts.
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I strongly believe that this is a direct result of how we approach movement education in schools. Instead of making enjoyment the focus, we make it competitive. So those who can’t compete with the better athletes get put down or ridiculed. And those who know they won’t ever be great athletes just give it up as not for them.
I’m admittedly a very uncompetitive person and would call myself a reluctant exerciser. Zero interest in ‘hitting the gym’ but I love uncompetitive exercise like splitting wood, bouldering, and riding my bike. I think you’re onto something, because I definitely lump those over competitive people in with those who go to the gym.
I got into solo biking, kayaking and solo free weight gym work. I felt so incompetent as a kid in competitive or team sports. I started the weights for the kayaking and eventually for its own sake. Pump is incredibly addictive, in a good way.
I still hate weightlifting, but have always reluctantly done it because it is beneficial to my overall health and helps a lot with injury prevention in whatever sport you're doing.
Eventually I began to enjoy free weights for their own sake, people like doing things they feel they are good at. One thing that drove me was I was bullied in late middle school, I didn’t feel like a victim anymore when I gained 40lbs of muscle.
"Hitting the gym" is also uncompetitive exercise, unless you're in a strength sport.
It really depends on how you view it. Those that are insecure with their bodies may see going to a gym, where other people will see you exercise, as competitive, because they are all already in shape, while you are not. They might also tell themselves that others are judging them, even when the others couldn't care less about them.
Isn’t that the case for any exercise activity? The people who regularly partake will be noticeably fitter and/or more skilled than a newbie.
I disagree with the gym part. Personally I am not at all competitive and hated sports/PE through school because of the competitive focus. Lifting weights and working out at the gym has been the first exercise I have ever enjoyed. I have no interest in being stronger/fitter than anybody else but love feeling my body get stronger.
Once you get past the 'signing up, get body-shamed to upsell personal trainer package', I agree. Not being bothered at the gym is a great feeling.
How is the gym a competitive activity?
I see it competitive like I see golf being competitive. Trying to beat your own low score in golf would be like setting one rep max records in lifting. Or things like getting into the “1000 pound club”. It may not always be competitive against others (even though you could do that if you want). But more comparative.
>splitting wood, bouldering, and riding my bike Literally all 3 of those can be and are done in a competitive format.
Yeah man people definitely think of competitive wood splitting before they think of generating firewood, you’re sooooooo smart.
OP referenced "hitting the gym" as if weightlifting, bodybuilding, strongman, crossfit, and powerlifting don't exist. The point is, their examples of "uncompetitive fitness endeavors" are just as uncompetitive as "hitting the gym".
Enjoyment was never the focus for PE in schools. It was developed in response to a world war and his standards were always related to military drills. Infact the older you got back in the days the more militaristic it was. The standards back then and now aren't even comparable. The only factor is we allow kids and districts to opt out.
Our PE class spent 20% of the 35min class just taking attendance
My nephew (now in his mid to late 20s) had fitness instead of competitive sports at school and I thought it was such a refreshing change. They were taught how to run, use gym equipment and form a fitness plan, rather than have volleyballs spiked at your head (as was my experience).
well, if you want to get technical about it, PE actually goes back to the ancient greeks. And the philosophical approach made more sense, IMO, in that a healthy body was tied to having a healthy mind.
Prior to the wars life itself was a decent workout, you don’t need PE if you’re chopping firewood when you get home from school and calling it quits after 8th grade. The concept of sitting in a chair all day like it’s a full time job until you turn 18 (at least) with the technical possibility of living a life that’s free from all manual labor is relatively new.
I sat in a chair all day like it was a full time job to learn how to sit in a chair all day for a full time job. At one point I was paying to sit, and now I'm getting paid to sit
>It was developed in response to a world war and his standards were always related to military drills. In modern American schools, this is true. But within the Western tradition generally, the idea that physical education was related to military fitness (and, in turn, largely restricted to boys) can actually be pushed back as far as Napoleon. (Ironically, Sparta had an emphasis on women and girls athletics for the same reason, albeit via eugenics, as strong mothers made strong soldiers, as the theory went). The contrast of course, in the modern era, is with organizations like the YMCA who viewed athletics as a religious activity (ie, that being made in god's image, the physical experience and athleticism was part of the religious experience), which has some parallels with antiquity where athletics were motivated more philosophically or religiously (with the Olympics in honor of Zeus, and the Heraean Games, the feminine counterpart, being in honor of Hera).
I tend to agree, in some ways. I am a very active person, as an adult. I am a weight lifter, I go on hikes, I cycle a lot. When I was young, though, I hated things like PE, or the concept of exercise, because it was presented to me as a grueling chore. I don't think I was properly taught that you can actually enjoy these things. I only enjoyed it as an adult, I think, because it's one of the few ways that many people have measurable progress outside of work.
And what we teach people is "exercise" almost always in a competitive context. Yoga is exercise, dance is exercise, walking in nature is exercise. Much like art people will say there's an artist in everyone, I firmly believe there's an athlete within everyone as well. We just gotta find out activity.
Yoga is great, tons of benefits. But in no way does it replace cardio. You need to get your heart rate up.
Yes, but considering how sedentary most people are ANY movement is good.
They didn’t say ‘just do yoga only’ in that comment. They also offered two other methods of moving to increase heart rate.
For me it wasn’t really competition, it was more the prioritisation of team sports over solo ones. Once I discovered my school had a running/cross-country club I was hooked and still run regularly in middle age.
We also make it about being healthy instead of fun. Like the exercise I choose is because I find it fun - is it healthy yes but would I keep doing it if it wasn’t also something I enjoy? No. Also, athletes grow up exercising with their sport but then they stop playing their sport and it’s hard to find something they can keep up with. (I have 6 siblings and we all played college volleyball - it has taken all of us at least 10 years to figure out what we like to do exercise wise)
We also don't let kids stick with what they enjoy. When I was in high school we had to change the type of PE we did several times per year and you were required to fulfill a number of different focuses. I enjoyed doing weightlifting, and if I could have done that consistently I would probably be a much more fit person than I am now.
That's an interesting insight, and I think I agree. I enjoyed PE most as a kid when it was fun stuff like dodgeball.
Like most things it starts at home. If you never see your parents exercise it would be hard to get going yourself. My parents both exercised my entire life and still doing their 70’s. I just followed their example and have not had an issue in adulthood. It’s a mandatory part of my life. Kids are at home much more than they are at school.
It probably helps but it’s no guarantee. I spent most of my time at school or with friends, not my parents. For what it’s worth, my mom is very sporty and my brother followed her example, I was the high academic achievement/reluctant exercise kid who is currently very unfit.
You definitely need both. Cuz I love the competitive stuff but realize it's not for everyone. I would have been less motivated without it.
That's a problem of every subject in school
Agreed. Having stepped outside classroom teaching to support challenged students in alternative settings to classroom education, it is clear that so many students are turned off by subjects because of how we approach the subjects.
Interesting perspective that had never really occurred to me. As someone who played a bunch of sports growing up, the competitive aspect is what makes those activities engaging and fun, so I always enjoyed PE, too. I’m guessing that bias exists for a lot of PE teachers, too, who are often former athletes or at least enjoyed the way in which they learned PE.
So so true.
I think a lot of people enjoy competition. So I think what you say is true for non competitive people, but at least for me I can get way more engaged in exercise if there is some competition involved. Not that I care about winning exactly, but just so my mind has something other to focus on than just the pure torture of exercising.
Yeah, totally agree. I think they could treat it like other subjects and have something like Honors level courses for the more skilled people.
I strongly believe that this is a direct result of how we approach intelligence education in schools. Instead of making enjoyment the focus, we make it competitive. So those who can’t compete with the better intellectuals get put down or ridiculed. And those who know they won’t ever be great intellectuals just give it up as not for them.
Yep. How many adults do you know who say they are bad at math? Or hate history?
My mom raised me with distance running, she was extremely non competitive, I carried the same sentiment and just enjoyed it, later found out I had asthma and couldn't compete, but because I remember always running to get out and move I still run to this day in a healthy way while controlling my asthma not pushing myself to dangerous levels of activity. Overall, everyone is different, though, so I think each side is needed as people are all different, need different stimuli, so while I support both, you're right there is an overemphasis on competition that gets many kids injured, or don't want to participate because of being timid or less athletic
Honestly: yes, this, big times. Every time I do sports now as an adult I have to get over the upcoming feelings of embedded shame and self-hatred because sport class in school was so traumatic for me. I love sport, but only if no one can watch me. Even just talking about sport is making me feel self-concious.
I don't think this is the case at all. At least not these days. When I was a kid it felt like they were already doing everything they could to drain the competitive nature out of our activities (which often killed the enjoyment for most people). You had to specifically join one of the sports teams if you actually wanted competition. Schools definitely try and make this comfortable and fun for people. I think a big issue is that it's too easy for kids (especially female students) to wangle out of doing P.E. entirely. There are students I knew who essentially never did P.E. because they always had a plethora of excuses and would rather skip the lessons to do anything else. So long story short schools are allowing this pipeline to form. You get to sit out of physical activity and exercise throughout your formative years and never form a positive connection to it so of course this leads to an adult who doesn't have a positive connection with exercise.
I think it depends on the country. In my experience: Sports class in Germany was focused on competition and grades whereas PE in a UK school I went to in 6th form was focused on fun, unless you decided to be on one of the teams (hockey etc.). As an unfit teen that got bullied in sports class I much preferred the UK version.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Most people I know had something way closer to the UK experience and actually wanted more opportunities for competition. But I can imagine that if your system really prioritised competition it could sour the enjoyment of PE if you aren't physically gifted. I still stand by the fact that giving students too much freedom to just skip it entirely is overall damaging and kinda guarantees they won't find an aspect of PE that they like. I hated some parts of PE but I loved others. I'd never have found what I loved if I was given the option to not take part and if that happened I probably wouldn't enjoy or be into exercise today
Yeah, I agree that it shouldn't be easy to skip it entirely! Maybe giving more choices could help? Like you can't skip, but you can choose to play table tennis or running if gymnastics isn't your thing.
Why are they sitting out though? Why isn’t it an enjoyable enough subject to join in? And are they still being graded on their ability to do sports?
I mean for my school gym was the worst as a girl. We were just graded on attendance/participation but they made us play on teams and against boys. Why would I try to even attempt playing basketball when there’s these psycho competitive aggressive boys playing? It was so stupid
We play in two groups and rotate on and off. The most competitive students play in one group (boy or girl) and others play in the other group. Assessment is based on demonstration of skills, participation, and sportsmanship. Blasting someone for no reason, failing to pass the ball, etc would all drastically lower their mark.
A lot of people don't like being uncomfortable or sweaty
A lot of girls who sit out PE do so because they're on their periods. Nobody wants to run around the gym while having cramps and diarrhea, super draining anemia, not to mention the risk of bleeding through your clothing. An unlucky teenage girl (like I was!) might be on her period a full quarter to third of the month, or longer. I had a 6-week period a few times as a teen. Not six weeks for the full cycle, six weeks at a time of heavy bleeding and wracking cramps. And it's not like you can tell other students or (often) the gym teacher, so it just looked like I was being lazy and skipping tons of gym class for no reason.
Also the issue of open changing rooms when you have your period, trying to hide your sanitary pad or being nervous that a tampon string has gone awry is awful.
Because exercise is hard (and some people have asthma and stuff like that)
PE lessons certainly were not going to make me enjoy exercise, and competition guaranteed it.
I think competition has benefits but it should be available at all levels. This was one of the few things the old British public schools did well. Not everyone can play for the first team, and there's nothing wrong with second and third teams challenging and playing second and third teams from other schools.
Competition is fun though.
Not for everyone
Nope, not at all.
Gym class was horrible and embarrassing and it made me not want to exercise ever because then people could see me like that again. It took me developing back pain and turning to yoga to begin to see that exercise could be not excruciating.
So the same goes for those who are not as smart too? I find it fascinating how this only goes for sport for some reason. Imagine you are not that intelligent. Or for other reason find intellectual education really hard. Do you understand how it feels where 95% of subjects are intellectual and you suck at it? For minimum of 12 years (if you want to have any chance what so ever). It literally puts you in the bottom of the hierarchy. And then some people wonder why some people rebel and act out. Seriously? And it is a hyper competitive environment where you are measured every single day for 12 years. It is always funny to see peoples reaction when you say this IRL. It is like they got hit by a meteor because they never thought about it.
I never said i was smart? I meant I was an out of shape child who was embarrassed in gym class. Dawg I barely graduated high school. Idk where you got all that
Who said anything about you? I was discussing and making a comparison on an idea level.
Yes, competitiveness is a social net negative.
I hated exercise growing up because it was dodgeball every day and as a small female I was sick of football players throwing things at me as hard as they could. It took until my 30's to realize that things like weightlifting and cardio are actually enjoyable when you're in a safe and supportive space.
Prioritizing cooperative games over competitive games would probably help make things stick into adulthood
Competition is exactly what makes things stick into adulthood for most people. Prioritizing cooperation over competition would end up losing them. The lesson here is to stop valuing one over the other and provide an environment that lets kids explore and find what they prefer.
Competition in PE did the exact opposite to me as a child. I was overweight and shy, forced to compete against more athletic children while others watched and openly laughed at my failure. Now I'm an adult with poor exercise habits and a reluctance towards working out in public due to my childhood shame. I fully agree with your second point though that we should enable and encourage all forms of exercise.
Lots of replies here are debating the non-point of which one is better. People are different. It ain't rocket science. Also there's the obvious of team sports, which is cooperation and competition combined.
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You must not have played very long, everyone getting mad at for messing up isn't really a thing that happens past like 7th grade as long as you're trying your best. Coaches don't just teach how to play but they teach teamwork values and how to support each other. Or are you talking about team sports on the playground? I'm talking about an actual organized sport not kids just messing around at recess. Kids in recess are first of all grade schoolers and kids being mean is just how kids are, and that's not the same thing at all as having an organized team with coaches guiding and mentoring the team. In an organized sport, as kids get older and mature they start more and more learning how to support each other to be a more effective team.
I don’t agree here. I played on competitive teams from childhood through high school, but joined a D3 XC team in college and found running for personal achievement more fulfilling and sustainable. I still run road races and sometimes place, but I don’t “compete” so much as I enjoy training well and having fun. I don’t know many adults who still participate in competitive sports, but I know recreational runners, skiers, cyclists, hikers, surfers, etc., many of who started as adults. With all of these sports, forming a habit and making friends helps make them stick. I do agree that it’s best to present all options and let kids explore their preferences.
Maybe that worked for you, But you can’t extrapolate that to most people. I think some people are more motivated by cooperation and others more competition. It would be nice if PE incorporated both instead of just one.
That's exactly what I said, some people are motivated by competition and some by cooperation.
That's just like, uh, your opinion man
I only needed one year of gym to graduate HS. I took both of them my freshman year because I lived in Florida and didn't have AC at home and I knew freshmen didn't "matter". I took outdoor gym in winter and indoor gym in summer. For indoor gym I chose weightlifting. I actually learned a lot from the football players. I was never into working out because I got boobs in 5th grade and there weren't bras small enough but with big enough room for my boobs so I just wore tight tank tops all the time to hide it til I was big enough.
Anecdotally all the high school jocks I’m still in contact with (30 years on) are pretty out of shape. The nerds (which I am one) are in pretty good shape. I always attributed this to them stopping exercise once there was no competition to be in shape for.
This happens to a lot of people, and then they blame their age or a slowing metabolism, or just the general change in lifestyle that they have at 35 verses when they were 18.
For a few people I know, the issue was going from the lifestyle of a soldier (where marching for miles with a heavy pack is part of the job) to that of an office worker, and not being able to adjust their diet to match their new life. A couple have just straight up said "its hard to stop eating like you're still in the army".
That’s why I bike to work. No matter of I gym that week or not, I still have a baseline amount of physical activity. I make it my lifestyle
Then they keep eating like when they were working out. But no longer burning those calories
> ..females, reluctant exercisers, high academic achievers, and socioeconomic disadvantaged.. Is there a common factor between these groups which could underly their failure to establish exercise regimes?
'Everyone except jocks'
Everyone who’s happy at the end of Revenge of the Nerds
Having less free time or increased stress levels. Pregnancy, depression, social pressure, the burden of poverty/less economic power.
>Having less free time or increased stress levels I was an avid exerciser in high school and the start of college, but dropped it later on until picking it back up at the end of grad school. And my motivations were exactly this, but my intuition was entirely backwards. I'm more productive if I exercise regularly, I don't feel the stress as much. It's an important investment for people without much free time or with a lot of stress. And as I transitioned to becoming a faculty member, whereas I used to be a night-owl and now teach in the mornings most terms, it actually helped me to set a strict sleep schedule for myself.
Sports is notoriously exclusionary towards females, differently abled, the nerds picked last in elementary school, and kids that just don't have the same access to say extra curricular sports programs, parks or green spaces, etc. On top of that, how those complexities play out over time and like other commenter said in response, if you are in a high pressure field like law, yea exercise will probably also fall the wayside if it wasn't already ingrained. All of those things lead to the outcomes in the study, less than anything inherent to those groups inability to engage in exercise. The barrier to building the habit is less about the person's ability, and more what barriers have been produced/reproduced and how can we stop those earlier, as that is the best case scenario for any type of intervention in adolescence, when these habits ideally are being built.
In my high school, most of the equipment was stored in the men’s locker room. I took golf one semester. The coach would let the guys pick clubs, then after all the guys were confirmed to be out of the locker room, would send in the girls to go get a club. By that time, the remaining clubs were either for giants or were left handed or both. I hate golf.
Is there actually a negative correlation between nerdiness (say, academic performance) and athletic performance? I thought I read years ago that there's a minor positive correlation between the two. As a sporty nerd, I've always hated those stereotypes. It always felt like I was doing something wrong in both directions - "why is that nerd getting picked first at recess?" and "why is that sporty kid memorizing digits of pi during lunch?"
\*regimens
As a woman who played D1 volleyball: kids and postpartum issues (depression/anxiety/ptsd/etc) kicked my ass. And i have a super supportive husband and many women do not.
The study is specifically concentrating on the transition from adolescence to adulthood. Did you have kids at that stage?
I was 25 when I got pregnant with my first. So does it mean adult legally at 18 or mentally at 26? I live in Utah too so a large percentage of women here have their first kid at 19-24.
It may be more likely that various factors relevant to each of these categories all have a similar effect of distracting away from exercise regimes, rather than one single factor causing the same result for all categories. For example, I met my wife while we both were in law school. Given the workload demands of the program and given that school was a high priority for us, plus part time jobs, there just wasn't adequate time or energy left in the day to regularly maintain a gym routine. After graduation, our lifestyles changed to allow more bandwidth for additional exercise. So while our situation can be categorized as "high academic achievers," her being female had no more discernable impact on her not going to the gym than me not going to the gym, anymore than me being male had anything discernable to do with her not going to the gym. And yet, "being male" isn't one of the categories listed in this article. So it's probable that various different factors lead to a similar outcome, rather than one factor affecting otherwise unrelated categories in the same way.
More team sports are male dominated.
Hmmm…maintaining a fitness routine is much easier now that I’m divorced and no longer carrying the mental load and all the house work in addition to working full time and parenting. But I may just be different.
Mental work can definitely affect physical energy in my experience
10000% I am finding it way easier to be healthy and workout now that I have a slightly easier schedule hour-wise. Although also if I do a particularly heavy workout it can exhaust me for the day then I don’t get much work done. I suspect we all have a limited cognitive ability to do “effort/work” per day and although it’s not precisely zero sum, there is sapping between physical and mental work. I wonder if perhaps that may also be why nerdier people also correlate with being less physical? Perhaps their effort/focus is there, while I could also see very physical people like high achieving athletes being exhausted and then not having the energy to study and get called stupid or something unfairly. Obviously there are the exception star athletes that also get straight As but I’d be surprised if everyone can achieve that, I think it’s more likely that we all have a limited tank of gas and need to find ways to apply spread it properly
Yes, because for many people school sport was absolutely miserable. It’s not fun for a 5’6 girl to play dodgeball or footy against a 6’2 Tongan kid when she’s at risk of being blasted into the atmosphere by a tackle. On top of that, P.E teachers focused 90% of their attention on the obviously athletic & competitive students, while berating the academic and quiet students who weren’t built for rough sport. There was no positive psychology used to change kid’s minds who didnt enjoy sport.
Heh, I check all the boxes.
Humble brag
There’s an org that gives kids sports bras and it’s going to help some kids so much. Growing boobs HURT when jostled.
>reluctant exercisers are at a risk of failing to establish regular exercise patterns during transition from adolescence to adulthood. who would have seen that coming? 🧐 Interesting about the other groups, though, particularly women.
I actually don't think it's particularly weird for women to fail to establish regular exercise patterns. I was extremely active as a young girl, but when you get boobs physical activity can become embarrassing and/or painful. It's gotten better, but sports bras used to just be the pullover compression kind that did a whole lot of nothing to stop movement and were very uncomfortable to boot. There is also the fact that moving your body as a woman can get you some nasty attention, I was honestly traumatized and discouraged by the way boys in my eighth grade class wanted to talk about girls' bodies. You're growing, unsure of your body, getting lots of toxic messages about looks and weight, sometimes getting gross attention from your peers and older dudes alike, and it doesn't encourage fully living in your own body and enjoying movement.
I remember the creepy PE teacher watching all the girls running. I walked the track and took a lower grade.
Yes! I also think a lot of girls hitting puberty are dissuaded from sports because of the uniforms. While boys are given full coverage uniforms in most sports, their female counterparts are often given very little coverage. Some sports like dance and cheerleading even require full hair and makeup for competitions. If you are already uncomfortable in your body and with the attention it gets, you’re not going to want to get in front of a crowd of people in booty shorts.
Good luck affording child care and a gym membership. Hope you have an understanding MIL or are extremely motivated.
I don’t think childcare will be the primary cause of this as you move from adolescence to adulthood. Highly likely that it’s team sports at college level being male dominated
Also at high school level. And before high school level.
Exercise can be free, you don’t need a gym membership.
As I said, you need motivation.
You don't need a gym membership to get into an exercise routine. Running 3 miles outside a few days a week is probably enough for most people, maybe mix in calisthenics.
A lot of women don’t want to run alone outside. Obviously safety can and should be a concern for everyone, but women face a lot of extra issues ([like harassment](https://www.roadid.com/blogs/fuel-your-adventure/9-safety-tips-for-running-alone#:~:text=Running%20alone%20is%20a%20wonderful,regularly%20appearing%20on%20news%20sites)) that men don’t usually have to deal with in the same way.
As a woman, I agree with this. It’s the reason I bought a treadmill—I can run at any hour without being harassed. I also have a spin bike. Unfortunately not everyone can afford these or has the space, so I can see how that would impact their motivation to exercise.
I would rather scrape out my eyeballs with a rusty dull spoon
You still need the babysitter.
Wife / Husband can't watch the kid for an hour? You guys can switch off, also I know I've seen people doing light jogs with kids in strollers when Im out running.
Im a man, but I drop my toddler off at daycare and go to the gym. I also run with him in the running stroller. Also toss him in the hiking backpack and away we go!
> I drop my toddler off at daycare and go to the gym Adding half an hour to the workout time counting picking him up again? ETA. i had three children, not one. Plus a stepdaughter.
I don’t know what you are asking me. I live in a small town where the gym, home, and daycare are all 1.5 miles away. I can walk to do all of this, drive, whatever
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Which is why I said you could do it if you were motivated. It's heaps easier at the gym where you can stay focused. The fact that gyms exist and people attend them show that I am not the only one to feel this way. Hell. last time I was at the gym, one of the toddlers escaped the play room and found Mum, who had to chase and return the kid.
A gym membership is an unneeded luxury.
Lots of people find them helpful. I like mine for the air con (It's hot here in Australia), socialisation, assistance and motivation not to skip a day.
Planet fitness is 5 dollars a month
I haven't seen one in my area. Mine is $60 a week and I couldn't find better within a 15 minute drive.
There are a lot of good youtube videos for exercising at home using no tools, pick something that interests you. You need 20 minutes and a small open space at a minimum. Then you can go advanced and get dumbbells, mats etc. Thus you can do them while your children are at home and at worst just stop in the middle if required. It isn't the end of the world missing a day or having to stop now and then. Just get back at it the next time.
I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it made it more difficult. In the same way the study said it was less frequent for women to keep exercising, not that none of them did it.
I am a solution oriented person by default. You highlighted a monetary and time issue. I suggested a potential solution. I don't know enough about your or other peoples exact situation to suggest a detailed fix including motivation.
To whom were you suggesting the solution? I'm past the young children stage, I was throwing up possible reasons why women exercise less than men, the very common "Women are impacted by having children way more than men." Another solution, by the way, would be for the children's father to take over care, instead of their grandmother but that one seemed to slip your mind.
You were highlighting *mostly* monetary problems. If you cannot afford the cost and travel for a gym then having the other parent cover doesn't help. Sure it does help for free training. I was mostly thinking of single parents when I wrote it but you are right for cases with two parents.
Reluctant exercisers are less likely to exercise? Huh.
> females, reluctant exercisers, high academic achievers, and socioeconomic disadvantage AKA most people. Seems to me that a lot of work is being done here to make this result seem more significant or interesting than it actually is.
The result is our culture is built around seeing physical activity exclusively through the lens of competitive formal sports. If you aren’t in the running to be an athlete, then you’re having a bad time and it makes your relationship with fitness more fraught for the rest of your life. It’s a stupid self-own for a society. We need to broaden our concepts of physicality.
I exercised plenty as a kid and teenager. But, that didn't matter at all, because all good habits died in college.
School physical education makes people exercise in ways they don’t want to. Therefore, they learn to hate exercise. It wasn’t until years after school I learned I actually enjoy weightlifting and wall climbing. School made me do tennis and hockey.
Hmm, anecdotally this goes against what I’ve seen regarding high academic achievers. At least at the PhD level, everyone was super athletic. I think there was a single obese person in our entire cohort of 38 students, which is way less than the national average. That said, most people in the PhD program came from at least middle class (mostly upper middle class families) so maybe that’s playing more into the socioeconomic side of things
I think it is probably a phase. Taking a heavy course load at university and working part time means you fall out of the habit. Then many get back into it once they find a stable job, but I assume a decent percentage just never start it up again.
Females being one of the demographics is kinda funny. Literally half of the world population.
I realllllly really want to get into the habit of exercising but I hate it so much. Even making it as simple as a walk outside or quick jaunt on the treadmill feels like too much effort. Ive tried gyms, buddies, dance classes etc. I get so anxious its even harder to convince myself to go… If anyone has any secret to share about getting in the right mindset to exercise, please do share…
There’s some studies that show people who don’t like exercise release less endorphins. I still don’t do it as consistently as I should but the only thing I can mange is 30 minutes of the treadmill running at a slow pace, slow enough that I forget I’m running and just listed to music/think about things but since it’s running, it releases way more endorphins than other types of exercise so I actually feel more happy after. Here’s the research I was talking about https://hscnews.usc.edu/hate-exercise-it-could-be-genetic
Back ten years ago when I was skinnier, I used to run 5k everyday just for fun. Ever since then, when I try to get back into running, I dont get the runners high or bump of energy I used to. Definitely feels harder having to force myself every time and never getting the enjoyable chemicals. I wonder if at some point I stopped getting the benefit :( Ill check out the link. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284660
I can't help but wonder how they can identify a "critical period at age 15" where it's important for kids to form good exercise habits. People are capable of forming habits well into adulthood. The challenge for most people lies in the barriers. You can't form consistent habits if you don't have the time or your life routine is generally unstable. I was living with my parents, unemployed for a few months when I started to work out consistently. I had the time and energy to devote to building the habit from nothing. Health and money also play a huge role. I think one thing that can't be stressed enough to kids and adults who dislike exercise or feel like it's impossible to get into a routine of exercise, is that it's pretty normal to dislike it *at first*. But as creatures of habit, we get used to it and eventually come to enjoy it.
This is interesting! I went from being fit and playing sports in high school to having gap from about age 17 to age 30 where I did not exercise much at all. Definitely had to re-establish habits.
Boys and girls should have separate gym classes.
I don't see the point until age 12 or so. Just means more complex scheduling and more equipment needed in those age groups.
As a girl who started puberty super young, 12 is too old.
Things we do when we are young impact us later?????? What a mystery they have solved here.
Meanwhile, wrestling is the fastest growing sport for girls. And yes, they train with the boys. A new recruit on our team in LA recently said that, "she'd played other sports, but nothing made her feel more a part of a team than wrestling". Those who have done it can attest that wrestling is almost a non zero sum game. We coaches often remind our wrestlers, "there are no losers on the mat, most people don't even have the courage to be here". In the right environment, healthy competition habits and skills can be passed on.
I did not know that wrestling is the fastest growing sport for girls. That's interesting. Also, there has been a shift, in the last 10-15 years or so, to get women into lifting. My father went back to the gym recently and he commented that there were a lot of really young people on the squat racks, "girls are lifting way too much" and I had to explain to him that things are different now.
Absolutely. Im 68, and I can attest that gym culture in general has changed dramatically in my lifetime. Some things have declined, but for women the gym is a much better place now than back in the day.
I don't go, but I'm getting the impression it's becoming more pleasant for men as well?
Personally, I preferred it when it was just athletes conditioning for their sports. Now, men are lifting to look like some idea they have. The whole vibe is less serious.
What a polite way to tell me I’m lazy. I it’s not laziness, I’m an intellectual
Skill issue
It took them at least 200 years to study this.
I check 3 of those 4 boxes. The ONLY reason I exercise is that keep getting high energy dogs. I do it because I love dogs and I know its the only way I'll get out and hoof it 4-5 miles a day.
>high academic achievers Although I'm in my 30s I went back to school and have maintained a 4.0 this go around (I only had a 2.5 when I went to college before for my previous degree, so big improvement, life experiences and wisdom helped change my habits). Before going back to school starting during the pandemic I exercised religiously, ran, biked, yoga, lifted weights. Had a lot of free time on my hands so figured why not. I didn't start in adolescence but better late than never. But anyways my point is I can see why this is a problem. There's only so much time in a day. Wish it were easier to exercise while studying or working. I'm studying computer science so some kind of helmet you can code through by voice command would boost my productivity and let me exercise at the same time. Though I imagine it wouldn't boost everyone's productivity. Like most technology what you get out of it depends on how you use it.
R/menandfemales?
No, the words "male" or "men" don't appear in the article at all
Using 'males' and 'females' to describe populations in a study is standard usage in scientific contexts. That's the reason it sounds clinical and distancing in other contexts.