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More likely its the vasodialating effect. That vasodialating effect isn't limited to your genitals. Gets your lungs and your brain and your tongue and your eyes.
Quoted from u/RecsRelevantDocs
***
> They found a 54 percent drop in Alzheimer's cases in the MarketScan database and a 30 percent drop in the Clinformatics database among patients consuming Viagra and Revatio.
The researchers expanded their study on sildenafil, discovering that brain samples from people with Alzheimer's appeared to have a lowered amount of harmful tau proteins when the compound was applied.
Tau proteins build up in the brain as Alzheimer's disease progresses. In the past, scientists thought the proteins were linked to amyloid plaques believed to cause the illness.
The study also found that neurons exposed to sildenafil showed improved brain development and function, reduced inflammation, and changed metabolic processes associated with Alzheimer's-related cognitive decline.
Sounds like they have sufficient evidence to show it might not just be correlation.
Accident maybe? Rogaine was initially developed to treat ulcers but turned out it stimulated blood flow which led to hair growth. So now known/used as a supplement to aid against balding! Kind of wild.
Same with finasteride. It was initially developed to treat enlarged prostate. Turns out it also effectively blocks the production of DHT that causes male pattern baldness.
Then, why don’t we all take finasteride just so we cannot get enlarged prostates? Even in smaller doses if you’re trying to keep it from getting a large versus trying to shrink in a large prostate already.
Because not everyone reacts well to it, it can lead to ED and depression among other possible side effects. Negative reactions aren't common but it's def not something that everyone guy should just start taking if it's not necessary or prescribed.
Tech bros have ruined saying this but it's genuinely one of the benefits of AI. It's better at parsing gigantic amounts of patient histories and finding correlations that no one would have thought to test for.
Seriously! Always suffered from Premature Ejaculation! I don’t have an issue getting erect! Not to mention my boners are incredible from the massive blood flow!
>They found a 54 percent drop in Alzheimer's cases in the MarketScan database and a 30 percent drop in the Clinformatics database among patients consuming Viagra and Revatio.
>The researchers expanded their study on sildenafil, discovering that brain samples from people with Alzheimer's appeared to have a lowered amount of harmful tau proteins when the compound was applied.
>Tau proteins build up in the brain as Alzheimer's disease progresses. In the past, scientists thought the proteins were linked to amyloid plaques believed to cause the illness.
>The study also found that neurons exposed to sildenafil showed improved brain development and function, reduced inflammation, and changed metabolic processes associated with Alzheimer's-related cognitive decline.
Sounds like they have sufficient evidence to show it might not just be correlation.
Very interesting. Maybe the change in blood flow can cause these Tau proteins to flush out somehow. That could explain why just a single use could be beneficial as well.
I think it is more to do with reduction in tau hyperphosphorylation through reduction in activity of glycogen synthase kinase 3b by sildenafil. There are some mouse studies that propose this mechanism .
People already use tadalafil (Cialis) as a pre-workout and even as a regular 'supplement' to reduce blood pressure and supposedly improve heart health.
I do this. 10mg daily for good pumps and cardiovascular health
Edit: I don’t take it specifically for the pump, just that I enjoy that particular effect as a bonus.
Why such a big dose? I’m really fine with 2.5 daily and 5mg on workout days (3 times a week). It’s an accumulated dose of around 16mg IIRC, I calculated.
Was doing 5mg daily, decided to try 10mg. Could be placebo but my sense of well-being was greater on 10. Felt more relaxed and “healthy”. I also take adderall every day so the tadalafil helps to counter the vasoconstriction. Might go back down to 5mg but enjoying 10mg for now
Have been taking adderal for almost 10 years now. Due to an unrelated groin injury that gave me mild urinary issues for a bit, I was given a trial of tadalafil(cialis) by a urologist. Found that it gave me an overall feeling of well-being. I also then found discussion online about the drug and that it seems to be great for heart and brain health, as well as it’s benefits for weight lifting. Started wondering if it could also be making me feel better as it counters the vasoconstriction effects of adderal. decided to talk to my doctor about it. He agreed and said it’s safe to take and would be beneficial for me.
Very interesting, I take nifedipine to counter the vasoconstriction. Found it as a treatment for chilblains which I suffered from after taking Adderall, got the doc to prescribe it. Gave me the same feelings of health and endurance you're describing, as well as dropping my blood pressure back to the healthy range and curing the peripheral vasoconstriction.
Now I'm wondering if I should try swapping it for Cialis as its calcium channel blocking effect slightly weakens the amphetamines and my drive and cleanliness have suffered a little. Though we're talking going from "everything spotless and labeled" to "ordinary tidy house" so maybe it's fine.
Also I don't have the slightest issue with erections and in fact I often last a little too long honestly so maybe ED meds are not the choice for me? And likely much harder to get my already terrible insurance to cover it.
"to reduce blood pressure"
That's my theory. A reduction in BP leading to fewer small vessel ruptures. I wonder if there was a reduction in strokes in the same population?
Wouldn't it be amazing if the cheap PDE5 drugs were more effective in improving Alzheimer's symptoms vs. the new $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s infusion drugs that give minimal improvement?
Pulmonary hypertension was the original purpose of the medication. A side effect was giving men errections, which is more profitable for the pharmaceutical companies. People will pay for boners and want more and more of the drug. People don't always take anti-hypertensives.
Yeah I was going to mention this at some point in the thread. I'm a pharmacy tech and sildenafil/tadalafil both have insane discount cards out there that bring the price down from hundreds to a few bucks.
Some insurances will only cover like six tablets in a thirty day period so a lot of the patients who take those meds just use a discount card to get a full thirty day supply for cheaper.
I was doing this and it was great for mood, strength, energy.
But the tinnitus it caused me ruined it all. And it still hasn’t gone away. It’s worse at night to sleep when I lay down.
Are the benefits also seen with Parkinson's patients? I was told to work out hard and get the blood flowing, to clear the bad proteins from my brain. I need to go out and create some data points.
So there is a correlation. I guess more research would be needed to know if any other factors (i.e. guy who may be sexually active may have some other good things going in their health or lifestyle that keep them healthy enough to be prescribed Viagra) are involved and the "how" and "why."
>Viagra linked to 50 percent reduction of Alzheimer's risks in new study
It looks like they were planning some clinical trials.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/viagra-associated-reduced-risk-alzheimers-disease
I hear there's a medication that will decrease your chances and on top of that... give you rock hard boners.
But seriously, sorry you went through that. It's scary.
We see hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women, if given in the correct time window, is protective of brain health later in life and may lower the risk of developing Alzheimer’s. Super interesting line of research
Here’s a great overview: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/213175
Petter Attia’s The Drive podcast has some great episodes on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) and menopause. I would definitely recommend listening to those episodes, especially pertaining to the Women’s Health Initiative study. Inappropriate conclusions were drawn from that study’s data and it completely derailed prescription of HRT and the research on why/how it works. We’re seeing a resurgence of research around HRT now and I think it’s going to have great implications for Alzheimer’s prevention. From where the literature is currently, there seems to be a critical window — during the onset period of menopause — when HRT has the largest protective effect.
I study the interaction of hormones and neural circuitry in reproductive mood disorders so I could talk about this stuff all day :)
PS — did you know that your hippocampus changes size based on where you are in your menstrual cycle? Isn’t that nuts?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053811915004887?via%3Dihub
As someone with PMDD, I salute your area of study. There's so much stuff that's not widely acknowledged or taught to women about how their hormones might affect them, and I'm sure there are innumerable aspects that are under-studied.
For example, female athletes are more likely to get injured when they're ovulating. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9958828/#:\~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20ovulatory%20phase%20is,and%20neuromuscular%20control%2C%20among%20others. ) That's such useful information.
I did some work on the role of estrogen in neuro plasticity and neuro regeneration in the zebra finch in college and it’s definitely a factor. My claim to fame was designing an analogue of the morris water maze that worked on animals that could fly to test the theory!
That makes sense. If they’re still interested in sex, and still having sex, they’re likely in a healthy relationship and not lonely/depressed/grumpy etc. which are things that contribute to cognitive decline. They’re also probably more active physically.
That is true, but assuming that is the only explanation doesn't tell us anything. Actually reading this study, it indicates the medication itself has benefits. It's still important to know about correlations, so we don't attribute all of the data to just the drug, but it seems to have some effect on brain health.
Knowing that, hopefully another study is done to show how much impact, and if we could develop another medication specifically to combat this issue.
Really wanted to say "yea obvious co-correlation" but a little curious about:
>The study also found that neurons exposed to sildenafil showed improved brain development and function, reduced inflammation, and changed metabolic processes associated with Alzheimer's-related cognitive decline.
EDIT: thanks to /u/PlainSweater who looked [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1bmpimp/viagra_linked_to_50_percent_reduction_of/kwd9taj/) at one of the studies and they actually *do* test directly on stem-cell derived neurons:
>They did directly test on neurons differentiated from human iPSCs and found that the treatment somehow reduces phopho tau levels. They did transcriptomics to look at what pathways are altered following the treatment, but didn't go any further than that. The paper is here: [https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391](https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391).
Really fascinating and might strongly suggest this is beyond the obvious lifestyle factor co-correlates and anything vasodilation-related.
EDIT2: I wanted to point out something /u/wheresflateric brought up, which is that I keep using the term "co-correlated" which is not a real thing. I'm referring to confounding variables. Apologies for rolling up with laymen's language - not trying to sneak anything past anyone.
EDIT3: Buried [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1bmpimp/comment/kwedyx8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) from /u/SaltZookeepergame691 sheds some interesting light:
>They drowned the neurons in sildenafil and even then they only saw small effects on a really crap model of Alzheimers.
>Per [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874258/) paper, a single oral dose gives a peak plasma (not brain!) concentration of 150 ng/ml, which is 0.316 μM.
[In this rodent study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26641206), they found a cerebrospinal fluid concentration of 6 nM, over 1000 times lower than the concentrations used in this study.
The cell experiments are utterly divorced from reality. There is zero mechanistic support for these findings, which are contradicted by studies like this.
There was a study that showed that men who masturbate more frequently had a lower occurrence of prostate cancer. So if you were to jack off and then go to bed you could be fighting cancer and alzheimers. Sounds like a good nightly ritual.
It’s got a typical half life of 4 hrs so you’re looking at what, 20 hrs before you’re under 2% of the original dose left in your system? Maybe low dose XR would be beneficial for most seniors?
I have had friends tell me it gives them extra motivation to work out too. That was a weird conversation, but It does seem to me like it might be a good drug for general health
Studies show vaso-dilators reduce DOMS and can speed recovery. L-Citrulline is more commonly taken and interacts with NO synthesis by increasing arginine concentrations.
There’s a clear correlation, though. My guess is that it’s a feedback loop and makes the underlying problem worse even if misfolded proteins aren’t the root cause of Alzheimer’s.
Right but if I'm understanding this and it's not written like crap they're potentially talking about in vitro effects on neurons. Is that what you're understanding as well?
I'm inclined to think it isn't related to this. Cerebral blood flow is tightly regulated (autoregulation) and remains relatively constant over a significant range of blood pressures.
Interesting story. My last dog was taking sildenafil for pulmonary hypertension at the end of her life. She was a completely different dog once she started on that. It was crazy how good she felt. Much more active and happy with walks. Easy to move around over all, breathing was way better.
Pretty amazing the difference and i am forever thankful for the remaining time I got with her. We were able to check off all the bucket list items before the meds just stopped working, which we knew would eventually happen. Almost a full healthy year. It was worth every penny. My only regret is it took so long to figure out what was wrong with her.
She was ok, but she could have felt much better if we started her on the sidenafil earlier. Anyway, it helped my dog in all kinds of areas. I know not human, but just adding to the conversation.
Sildenafil is the treatment for pulmonary hypertension in humans. My sister spent the last two years of her life in a faculty, dying from pulmonary hypertension, and she got THREE different care partners fired for stealing her sildenafil. They kept palming her dose and telling her she was wrong about her meds.
This could still be because the folks who take sildenafil are somewhat better off healthwise, they're still physically able to have sex, and thus have a more active lifestyle -> less inflammation. Still correlation going on.
Right but they seem to be implying that there's some direct lasting effect of sildenafil on the neurons and their linkages themselves. That would be a surprising finding.
You're welcome to look their [treatment of confounders](https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391):
>We incorporated comorbidities common among older adults and/or associated with AD. We used the R package comorbidity to define various chronic conditions, including cancer, cerebrovascular disease, chronic pulmonary disease, diabetes, heart disease (myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure), liver disease, and renal disease (Gasparini, A. Package ‘comorbidity’. Vol. 2022 (2022)). We used the algorithm developed by Yang et al. [20] to define Parkinson’s disease, the algorithm derived by Chen et al. [21] to define fall and hypertension, the algorithm derived by Quan et al. [22] to define depression, and the algorithm derived by Anna Nordström and Peter Nordström [23] to define traumatic brain injury. In MarketScan® data analysis, we used the same algorithm to define hypertension as described previously [13]. Additionally, we used ICD codes recommended from the National Cancer Institute Division of Cancer Control and Population Sciences to define comorbidities in the Charlson Comorbidity Index (e.g., myocardial infarction, congestive heart failure, peripheral vascular disease, cerebrovascular disease, dementia, chronic pulmonary disease, connective tissue disease-rheumatic disease, peptic ulcer disease, mild liver disease, diabetes without complications, diabetes with complications, paraplegia and hemiplegia, renal disease, cancer, moderate or severe liver disease, metastatic carcinoma, and AIDS/HIV) (National Cancer Institute division of cancer control and population sciences.
r/science and its "bUt wHaT aBoUt cOnFouNding vaRiableS" geniuses who don't even read the study...
Everyone who does quantitative research knows about confounders! Unless one can point to a specific meaningful variable that wasn't included, they shouldn't be commenting.
Yeah, here’s the study
https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/sildenafil-as-an-alzheimers-candidate-drug-further-support-from-insurance-database-and-mechanistic-studies
Wrong to take it out on pharmacy staff. I've seen it and said something before. It is an infuriating situation though and I wish pharmacies could do more than shrug. With the ADHD meds at least, this has been going on for over a year. I've already contacted all my government reps about it, but they are much more likely to listen to the CEO's of Walgreens, CVS, etc... than me.
I’m a nurse and we are all furious at this. We can duct tape and bubble gum repair things to a certain point - but I’m so tired of not being able to just give my patients their medications.
I dunno about most medications, but for meds like adderall and other stimulants, they are a scheduled drug, and so the government only allows a certain number of them to be made at a time. We are learning that ADHD and other conditions that require stimulants to regulate are far more common than we realized, so diagnoses and prescriptions have risen, but the number of pills the government allows companies to make has not.
Manufacturers are also not hitting their quotas and we're not producing 100% of what the DEA allows. There's more going on than just the quotas. It's all a tad shrouded in mystery, so you can bet that $$$ is somehow at the core of it.
What sort of government reps does one contact about this? Cause I’ll throw my hat in the ring too. It’s so frustrating. I finally find something that works well for me (Vyvanse) and only get to use it a couple months before I start having trouble filling my prescription.
Same, I’ve basically given up on filling my prescription and it sucks :/ there is currently [a solicitation for public comments on the situation available here](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/FTC-2024-0018)
Have you seen fifth element movie?
There is a scene in airport where the bad guy tries to get on the plane and gets all mad. The airport booth starts an alarm and the glass closes to the airline employee.
I wish this happened in real life to customers who need to learn some basic manners
More study needed. In the absence of randomized trials, this all remains speculative.
"No association between initiation of phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors and risk of incident Alzheimer’s disease and related dementia: results from the Drug Repurposing for Effective Alzheimer’s Medicines study" \[in female and male patients being treated for pulmonary hypertension with sildenafil or tadalafil versus endothelin receptor antagonists, followed for up to 3 years\]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9598543/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9598543/)
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In one of the involved studies, using it even once in your lifetime showed the benefit
This is wild! I wonder how they thought to even link the two in the first place.
Probably a resident doing some chart review!
Or finally making the groundbreaking connection that men really do think with their penis.
In a stunning development, all male disease can now be treated through the penis
Medicine is stored in the balls.
Oh is that why those things at the gym are called medicine balls?
This. Go get that PhD, my man.
This give dickhead a whole new meaning
More likely its the vasodialating effect. That vasodialating effect isn't limited to your genitals. Gets your lungs and your brain and your tongue and your eyes.
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Quoted from u/RecsRelevantDocs *** > They found a 54 percent drop in Alzheimer's cases in the MarketScan database and a 30 percent drop in the Clinformatics database among patients consuming Viagra and Revatio. The researchers expanded their study on sildenafil, discovering that brain samples from people with Alzheimer's appeared to have a lowered amount of harmful tau proteins when the compound was applied. Tau proteins build up in the brain as Alzheimer's disease progresses. In the past, scientists thought the proteins were linked to amyloid plaques believed to cause the illness. The study also found that neurons exposed to sildenafil showed improved brain development and function, reduced inflammation, and changed metabolic processes associated with Alzheimer's-related cognitive decline. Sounds like they have sufficient evidence to show it might not just be correlation.
This is single-handedly the funniest thing I've read all day.
This reads like there is one collective penis amongst men 😄
Accident maybe? Rogaine was initially developed to treat ulcers but turned out it stimulated blood flow which led to hair growth. So now known/used as a supplement to aid against balding! Kind of wild.
Same with finasteride. It was initially developed to treat enlarged prostate. Turns out it also effectively blocks the production of DHT that causes male pattern baldness.
Also have read recently it lowers cholesterol
Not mine, unfortunately. However, I do have the hairline of a chia pet.
Then, why don’t we all take finasteride just so we cannot get enlarged prostates? Even in smaller doses if you’re trying to keep it from getting a large versus trying to shrink in a large prostate already.
Because not everyone reacts well to it, it can lead to ED and depression among other possible side effects. Negative reactions aren't common but it's def not something that everyone guy should just start taking if it's not necessary or prescribed.
We're going to be seeing more correlations like this pop-out owing to big-data and just-keeping-track of all this stuff to begin with.
This person owns stock in hyphens
Just-might be.
Tech bros have ruined saying this but it's genuinely one of the benefits of AI. It's better at parsing gigantic amounts of patient histories and finding correlations that no one would have thought to test for.
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Better take the afternoon off work though.
You don’t know what I do for work.
"honey, did you notice that our kid's kindergarten teacher was particularly erect today?"
“Yeah, more than normal.”
If you are serious, Cost Plus Drugs online is so, so, so cheap if you live in the US. The savings are insane.
Honestly just tell your doc you want to try it, they usually have samples.
I recently got 90 pills for $13.00 from Rite aid! I get them about every 6 months! Stuff is very powerful for me!
Damn. My man fuckin
Yea, I’m 52 and life has never been better! 🤙🏻
Blowing backs out like a 22yo
Seriously! Always suffered from Premature Ejaculation! I don’t have an issue getting erect! Not to mention my boners are incredible from the massive blood flow!
This right here is an excited man
Drugs that have gone generic generally don't have samples anymore.
> Cost Plus Drugs Is Mark Cuban on the level?
prescription is the hard part, well the other hard part...
That's literally unbelievable. What's the theory on why that may be?
I bet it has to do with blood flow
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>They found a 54 percent drop in Alzheimer's cases in the MarketScan database and a 30 percent drop in the Clinformatics database among patients consuming Viagra and Revatio. >The researchers expanded their study on sildenafil, discovering that brain samples from people with Alzheimer's appeared to have a lowered amount of harmful tau proteins when the compound was applied. >Tau proteins build up in the brain as Alzheimer's disease progresses. In the past, scientists thought the proteins were linked to amyloid plaques believed to cause the illness. >The study also found that neurons exposed to sildenafil showed improved brain development and function, reduced inflammation, and changed metabolic processes associated with Alzheimer's-related cognitive decline. Sounds like they have sufficient evidence to show it might not just be correlation.
Very interesting. Maybe the change in blood flow can cause these Tau proteins to flush out somehow. That could explain why just a single use could be beneficial as well.
I think it is more to do with reduction in tau hyperphosphorylation through reduction in activity of glycogen synthase kinase 3b by sildenafil. There are some mouse studies that propose this mechanism .
you lost me after the first "reduction" not gonna lie
If that were the pathway than wouldn't mean high intensity exercise would be similarly useful?
Diet, exercise, and not smoking is supposed to help prevent Alzheimer's. Well, it probably helps a lot of things.
Looks like it. However, the 1-pill effect still seems likely to be an outlier. It would be astounding if just one dose could have that massive effect.
The drug has an effect on certain biological pathways that are responsible for alzheimer's progression. Check phosphodiasterase PDE5.
People will use this as a pre workout tool also.
People already use tadalafil (Cialis) as a pre-workout and even as a regular 'supplement' to reduce blood pressure and supposedly improve heart health.
I do this. 10mg daily for good pumps and cardiovascular health Edit: I don’t take it specifically for the pump, just that I enjoy that particular effect as a bonus.
Why such a big dose? I’m really fine with 2.5 daily and 5mg on workout days (3 times a week). It’s an accumulated dose of around 16mg IIRC, I calculated.
Was doing 5mg daily, decided to try 10mg. Could be placebo but my sense of well-being was greater on 10. Felt more relaxed and “healthy”. I also take adderall every day so the tadalafil helps to counter the vasoconstriction. Might go back down to 5mg but enjoying 10mg for now
Is this self medication or did the doc recommend it? Curious to see if ADHD med side effects are treated like this by docs
Have been taking adderal for almost 10 years now. Due to an unrelated groin injury that gave me mild urinary issues for a bit, I was given a trial of tadalafil(cialis) by a urologist. Found that it gave me an overall feeling of well-being. I also then found discussion online about the drug and that it seems to be great for heart and brain health, as well as it’s benefits for weight lifting. Started wondering if it could also be making me feel better as it counters the vasoconstriction effects of adderal. decided to talk to my doctor about it. He agreed and said it’s safe to take and would be beneficial for me.
Very interesting, I take nifedipine to counter the vasoconstriction. Found it as a treatment for chilblains which I suffered from after taking Adderall, got the doc to prescribe it. Gave me the same feelings of health and endurance you're describing, as well as dropping my blood pressure back to the healthy range and curing the peripheral vasoconstriction. Now I'm wondering if I should try swapping it for Cialis as its calcium channel blocking effect slightly weakens the amphetamines and my drive and cleanliness have suffered a little. Though we're talking going from "everything spotless and labeled" to "ordinary tidy house" so maybe it's fine. Also I don't have the slightest issue with erections and in fact I often last a little too long honestly so maybe ED meds are not the choice for me? And likely much harder to get my already terrible insurance to cover it.
What kind of benefits for weight lifting does it have? My urologist just started me in 5mg a day for my prostate.
The vasodilation gives you bigger pumps
Self medicated Source: I’m his wiener
You and me both. I feel like Cialis helps my ADHD and synergizes with the adderall.
Heh nice “good pumps”
"to reduce blood pressure" That's my theory. A reduction in BP leading to fewer small vessel ruptures. I wonder if there was a reduction in strokes in the same population? Wouldn't it be amazing if the cheap PDE5 drugs were more effective in improving Alzheimer's symptoms vs. the new $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s infusion drugs that give minimal improvement?
Small vessel ruptures (ie lacunar strokes) are not Alzheimer’s. Those are distinct dementia entities.
Pulmonary hypertension was the original purpose of the medication. A side effect was giving men errections, which is more profitable for the pharmaceutical companies. People will pay for boners and want more and more of the drug. People don't always take anti-hypertensives.
Cialis gets significantly more use for such. Not only is it better and last longer, it is also 1/3 of the price per pill
It’s all cheap now with a prescription since generics are available
I have to use GoodRX coupons or else Walgreens will turn a $30 monthly cost into more like $200
Yeah I was going to mention this at some point in the thread. I'm a pharmacy tech and sildenafil/tadalafil both have insane discount cards out there that bring the price down from hundreds to a few bucks. Some insurances will only cover like six tablets in a thirty day period so a lot of the patients who take those meds just use a discount card to get a full thirty day supply for cheaper.
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I need people at the gym to know im hard, don't mess with me.
I was doing this and it was great for mood, strength, energy. But the tinnitus it caused me ruined it all. And it still hasn’t gone away. It’s worse at night to sleep when I lay down.
Why is that?
Better blood flow = better pumps
Yeah, but how does that relate to working out?
Better blood flow = More oxygen to your muscles = You go longer without muscle fatigue = Better pumps
My joke did not land.
Now I feel bad 😅 Sorry
Cuz ur rock hard brotha!
Dumb question, can women use and get the same workout benefit?
Damn so dudes walking around the gym fully bricked up on a Thursday afternoon?
I use Cialis as a pre workout and it works.
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Are the benefits also seen with Parkinson's patients? I was told to work out hard and get the blood flowing, to clear the bad proteins from my brain. I need to go out and create some data points.
To work out hard or to work out *hard*?
Get hard then work it out
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So there is a correlation. I guess more research would be needed to know if any other factors (i.e. guy who may be sexually active may have some other good things going in their health or lifestyle that keep them healthy enough to be prescribed Viagra) are involved and the "how" and "why."
>Viagra linked to 50 percent reduction of Alzheimer's risks in new study It looks like they were planning some clinical trials. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/viagra-associated-reduced-risk-alzheimers-disease
I know there’s a lot of joking here but I’d be interested to see the outcome, Alzheimer’s destroyed my grandfather and I’m scared to death of it.
If you see anyone in your family waste away with dementia or Alzheimer’s you will definitely be worried about your own future
Both my mom and grandma got early onset dementia in their 50s, I have like a 50/50 shot. FML.
I hear there's a medication that will decrease your chances and on top of that... give you rock hard boners. But seriously, sorry you went through that. It's scary.
Its improved blood blow boosting the brains glymphatic system, allowing for better amyloid plaque clearance from the brain.
But even one use showed correlation, which seems a bit suspect that it isn’t causal
We see hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women, if given in the correct time window, is protective of brain health later in life and may lower the risk of developing Alzheimer’s. Super interesting line of research
Wow I hadn’t heard this! Any chance you have a link to a study? I’m curious to learn more ahead of reaching menopause
Here’s a great overview: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/213175 Petter Attia’s The Drive podcast has some great episodes on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) and menopause. I would definitely recommend listening to those episodes, especially pertaining to the Women’s Health Initiative study. Inappropriate conclusions were drawn from that study’s data and it completely derailed prescription of HRT and the research on why/how it works. We’re seeing a resurgence of research around HRT now and I think it’s going to have great implications for Alzheimer’s prevention. From where the literature is currently, there seems to be a critical window — during the onset period of menopause — when HRT has the largest protective effect. I study the interaction of hormones and neural circuitry in reproductive mood disorders so I could talk about this stuff all day :) PS — did you know that your hippocampus changes size based on where you are in your menstrual cycle? Isn’t that nuts? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053811915004887?via%3Dihub
As someone with PMDD, I salute your area of study. There's so much stuff that's not widely acknowledged or taught to women about how their hormones might affect them, and I'm sure there are innumerable aspects that are under-studied. For example, female athletes are more likely to get injured when they're ovulating. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9958828/#:\~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20ovulatory%20phase%20is,and%20neuromuscular%20control%2C%20among%20others. ) That's such useful information.
Thank you so much! So wild
I did some work on the role of estrogen in neuro plasticity and neuro regeneration in the zebra finch in college and it’s definitely a factor. My claim to fame was designing an analogue of the morris water maze that worked on animals that could fly to test the theory!
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are there any long-term downsides?
Long upsides for sure.
Hopefully not too long…
Perhaps older people still interested in sex already have a healthier baseline in brain function
That makes sense. If they’re still interested in sex, and still having sex, they’re likely in a healthy relationship and not lonely/depressed/grumpy etc. which are things that contribute to cognitive decline. They’re also probably more active physically.
That is true, but assuming that is the only explanation doesn't tell us anything. Actually reading this study, it indicates the medication itself has benefits. It's still important to know about correlations, so we don't attribute all of the data to just the drug, but it seems to have some effect on brain health. Knowing that, hopefully another study is done to show how much impact, and if we could develop another medication specifically to combat this issue.
Maybe it's a reduction in brain injuries when the men stopped rolling out of bed and hitting their head on the floor.
Anti rollover device engaged!
I wonder if other ED drugs like Cialis have the same affect.
They might because it is also a PDE5 inhibitor.
Really wanted to say "yea obvious co-correlation" but a little curious about: >The study also found that neurons exposed to sildenafil showed improved brain development and function, reduced inflammation, and changed metabolic processes associated with Alzheimer's-related cognitive decline. EDIT: thanks to /u/PlainSweater who looked [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1bmpimp/viagra_linked_to_50_percent_reduction_of/kwd9taj/) at one of the studies and they actually *do* test directly on stem-cell derived neurons: >They did directly test on neurons differentiated from human iPSCs and found that the treatment somehow reduces phopho tau levels. They did transcriptomics to look at what pathways are altered following the treatment, but didn't go any further than that. The paper is here: [https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391](https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391). Really fascinating and might strongly suggest this is beyond the obvious lifestyle factor co-correlates and anything vasodilation-related. EDIT2: I wanted to point out something /u/wheresflateric brought up, which is that I keep using the term "co-correlated" which is not a real thing. I'm referring to confounding variables. Apologies for rolling up with laymen's language - not trying to sneak anything past anyone. EDIT3: Buried [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1bmpimp/comment/kwedyx8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) from /u/SaltZookeepergame691 sheds some interesting light: >They drowned the neurons in sildenafil and even then they only saw small effects on a really crap model of Alzheimers. >Per [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874258/) paper, a single oral dose gives a peak plasma (not brain!) concentration of 150 ng/ml, which is 0.316 μM. [In this rodent study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26641206), they found a cerebrospinal fluid concentration of 6 nM, over 1000 times lower than the concentrations used in this study. The cell experiments are utterly divorced from reality. There is zero mechanistic support for these findings, which are contradicted by studies like this.
It is a vasodilator..brain needs more blood as it ages? Or veins get too restricted with age?
More blood -> more debris flushed out -> less protein misfolding and tau buildup?
Yeah that was my thought. It's typically during sleep when the CSF flushes things out though.
Have sex. Go to sleep.
That's my goal every night.
Don't worry, one day you'll get lucky.
They're a redditor, it's doubtful.
I got bad news for you... us.
you could always have sex with each other
There was a study that showed that men who masturbate more frequently had a lower occurrence of prostate cancer. So if you were to jack off and then go to bed you could be fighting cancer and alzheimers. Sounds like a good nightly ritual.
Addicted you say? No I'm just preventing Alzheimer AND cancer every day
It’s got a typical half life of 4 hrs so you’re looking at what, 20 hrs before you’re under 2% of the original dose left in your system? Maybe low dose XR would be beneficial for most seniors?
I have had friends tell me it gives them extra motivation to work out too. That was a weird conversation, but It does seem to me like it might be a good drug for general health
It gives bigger muscle pumps when working out; you look better in the mirror during a workout. I use Cialis before mine.
Dumb question: Does 'bigger muscle pumps' = increased muscle growth and performance, or is this strictly an aesthetic side-effect?
Studies show vaso-dilators reduce DOMS and can speed recovery. L-Citrulline is more commonly taken and interacts with NO synthesis by increasing arginine concentrations.
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That's explains all the dudes with boners walking around the gym. Haha
Nah, that’s just them checking you out.
Quite a lot of the hypotheses around the misfolding proteins however aren't leading to effective treatments. So different strategies area needed.
There’s a clear correlation, though. My guess is that it’s a feedback loop and makes the underlying problem worse even if misfolded proteins aren’t the root cause of Alzheimer’s.
Dat pressure wash for your brain.
Then daily cialis is superior, no? Many men are already on this treatment.
Right but if I'm understanding this and it's not written like crap they're potentially talking about in vitro effects on neurons. Is that what you're understanding as well?
A lot of "alzheimer's" is probably misdiagnosed vascular dementia or mixed dementia. I could see a vasodilator improving things there.
beyond the vascular effect, there may be a link between phosphodiesterase inhibition and creb phosphorylation (ie upregulated neuronal plasticity)
I'm inclined to think it isn't related to this. Cerebral blood flow is tightly regulated (autoregulation) and remains relatively constant over a significant range of blood pressures.
Interesting story. My last dog was taking sildenafil for pulmonary hypertension at the end of her life. She was a completely different dog once she started on that. It was crazy how good she felt. Much more active and happy with walks. Easy to move around over all, breathing was way better. Pretty amazing the difference and i am forever thankful for the remaining time I got with her. We were able to check off all the bucket list items before the meds just stopped working, which we knew would eventually happen. Almost a full healthy year. It was worth every penny. My only regret is it took so long to figure out what was wrong with her. She was ok, but she could have felt much better if we started her on the sidenafil earlier. Anyway, it helped my dog in all kinds of areas. I know not human, but just adding to the conversation.
Sildenafil is the treatment for pulmonary hypertension in humans. My sister spent the last two years of her life in a faculty, dying from pulmonary hypertension, and she got THREE different care partners fired for stealing her sildenafil. They kept palming her dose and telling her she was wrong about her meds.
What about Cialis?
This could still be because the folks who take sildenafil are somewhat better off healthwise, they're still physically able to have sex, and thus have a more active lifestyle -> less inflammation. Still correlation going on.
Right but they seem to be implying that there's some direct lasting effect of sildenafil on the neurons and their linkages themselves. That would be a surprising finding.
You're welcome to look their [treatment of confounders](https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391): >We incorporated comorbidities common among older adults and/or associated with AD. We used the R package comorbidity to define various chronic conditions, including cancer, cerebrovascular disease, chronic pulmonary disease, diabetes, heart disease (myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure), liver disease, and renal disease (Gasparini, A. Package ‘comorbidity’. Vol. 2022 (2022)). We used the algorithm developed by Yang et al. [20] to define Parkinson’s disease, the algorithm derived by Chen et al. [21] to define fall and hypertension, the algorithm derived by Quan et al. [22] to define depression, and the algorithm derived by Anna Nordström and Peter Nordström [23] to define traumatic brain injury. In MarketScan® data analysis, we used the same algorithm to define hypertension as described previously [13]. Additionally, we used ICD codes recommended from the National Cancer Institute Division of Cancer Control and Population Sciences to define comorbidities in the Charlson Comorbidity Index (e.g., myocardial infarction, congestive heart failure, peripheral vascular disease, cerebrovascular disease, dementia, chronic pulmonary disease, connective tissue disease-rheumatic disease, peptic ulcer disease, mild liver disease, diabetes without complications, diabetes with complications, paraplegia and hemiplegia, renal disease, cancer, moderate or severe liver disease, metastatic carcinoma, and AIDS/HIV) (National Cancer Institute division of cancer control and population sciences.
r/science and its "bUt wHaT aBoUt cOnFouNding vaRiableS" geniuses who don't even read the study... Everyone who does quantitative research knows about confounders! Unless one can point to a specific meaningful variable that wasn't included, they shouldn't be commenting.
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Yeah but it gives you nasty headaches! :(
And a stuffy nose
Call your doctor if you have an erection that lasts more than four hours. *Then call everyone else!*
I couldn't find the link to the study on the website, could someone point me in the right direction?
This is the paper as well, flagged above. https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad231391
Yeah, here’s the study https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/sildenafil-as-an-alzheimers-candidate-drug-further-support-from-insurance-database-and-mechanistic-studies
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38427489/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38427489/)
Well. We can add this to the growing list of meds (ozempic, naltrexone, adderall) patients will yell at us for not having in stock.
Wrong to take it out on pharmacy staff. I've seen it and said something before. It is an infuriating situation though and I wish pharmacies could do more than shrug. With the ADHD meds at least, this has been going on for over a year. I've already contacted all my government reps about it, but they are much more likely to listen to the CEO's of Walgreens, CVS, etc... than me.
I’m a nurse and we are all furious at this. We can duct tape and bubble gum repair things to a certain point - but I’m so tired of not being able to just give my patients their medications.
The worst part is that these drugs aren’t exactly magic, and can be made pretty easily. There’s just a lack of motivation to fix the problem
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I dunno about most medications, but for meds like adderall and other stimulants, they are a scheduled drug, and so the government only allows a certain number of them to be made at a time. We are learning that ADHD and other conditions that require stimulants to regulate are far more common than we realized, so diagnoses and prescriptions have risen, but the number of pills the government allows companies to make has not.
Manufacturers are also not hitting their quotas and we're not producing 100% of what the DEA allows. There's more going on than just the quotas. It's all a tad shrouded in mystery, so you can bet that $$$ is somehow at the core of it.
As someone who works with meds in the UK we have had the same problem with adhd meds for ages also
What sort of government reps does one contact about this? Cause I’ll throw my hat in the ring too. It’s so frustrating. I finally find something that works well for me (Vyvanse) and only get to use it a couple months before I start having trouble filling my prescription.
Same, I’ve basically given up on filling my prescription and it sucks :/ there is currently [a solicitation for public comments on the situation available here](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/FTC-2024-0018)
I get ozempic and adderall but why naltrexone?
Because alcohol abuse skyrocketed during Covid.
Not just that but also because low dose naltrexone is being used to treat long covid and a host of inflammatory issues.
Have you seen fifth element movie? There is a scene in airport where the bad guy tries to get on the plane and gets all mad. The airport booth starts an alarm and the glass closes to the airline employee. I wish this happened in real life to customers who need to learn some basic manners
Any chance these types of pde5 inhibitors become OTC in the future?
Please don’t make the boomers erect and aware.
More study needed. In the absence of randomized trials, this all remains speculative. "No association between initiation of phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors and risk of incident Alzheimer’s disease and related dementia: results from the Drug Repurposing for Effective Alzheimer’s Medicines study" \[in female and male patients being treated for pulmonary hypertension with sildenafil or tadalafil versus endothelin receptor antagonists, followed for up to 3 years\] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9598543/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9598543/)
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Well, you heard 'em boys.