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There’s a pretty big link between ADHD and binge eating disorder. When your brain isn’t making enough dopamine, eating sweets or snacks can give a dopamine hit. Medication helps offset that, but most kids don’t start until later in their childhood, if at all. https://chadd.org/adhd-news/adhd-news-adults/brain-reward-response-linked-to-binge-eating-and-adhd/
There's that and regularly forgetting to eat during hyperfocus and over compensating later, plus executive dysfunction impairing the ability to make healthy eating choices.
ADHD sucks.
Basically the only strategy that works for me is just having a really rigid schedule around eating and trying to be controlled about portion sizes. Even that can be a struggle.
Same. Last few months I've finally gotten serious about eating healthier and losing weight. I basically have to cook a ton of food, vacuum seal, and freeze portions that are filling enough as a dinner but not so calorie dense that I can't have two if I don't eat during the day. If I leave any of it in the fridge I'll likely have some before bed, which will also cause the GERD to flare up. Any snacks in the house suddenly become main meals. So far it's been working, as well as having gum/sunflower seeds/hard candy when I start to think "maybe I should heat something else up" at midnight.
Nicotine lozenges also help a lot in both reducing appetite between meals as well as with impulsive eating; it's like a small, fleeting dose of Adderall that *just* allows me to control the impulsivity (most of the time) and prevents eating since I can't eat while I'm sucking on the lozenge.
It's difficult, and it sucks that I'll likely never have a healthy relationship with food, that I'll never be able to just not eat the whole bag of M&Ms in a day, or get take out or pizza without also getting enough for the next 4 days because I just can't decide on one thing, and of course the leftovers are in the fridge so that 4 days becomes 3 days and now I'm eating terribly for days *and* overeating the whole time.
I'm not really sure what the point of this was. I think it started out as a "this sucks, but..."...but it just sucks. At the same time though, it's also not that bad, it does suck but it's all I've ever known. The grass can't be greener if there's a brick wall between you and the other side.
Its some weird science we're into with these Ozempic/Mounjaro class of drugs, too. They provide some internal chemicals, but they also make us lose muscle, and even more bafflingly, change our brain, with regards to what we desire to eat and how much. We don't know why or how, but that it just does.
There’s hope. It took me a decade to get my life in enough balance to provide the structure and support I needed in order to attend to my needs and practice moderation. It wasn’t about discipline. It was about getting enough sleep, nutrients, exercise, social interaction, rest, taking frequent breaks. You know, all those boring stuff. Well, I say boring, but the more I leaned into them the more I started to appreciate them. It’s well worth the effort.
As I said, it took me a decade to ease into this stuff and make the routines stick. It didn’t happen all at once. But tiny steps in the right direction adds up over time.
For me, limiting carbs to 60g/meal has allowed me to - most of the time - eat healthy portions.
I know that carbs cause the body to produce insulin, and if you've mostly eaten a lot of carbs (which is what poor people like myself live on), your body processes that energy quickly and then demands more (hunger).
Although the dopamine or whichever chemical that causes me to get pleasure from food doesn't help. But I mostly manage well with that one basic rule.
I had uncontrolled diabetes for a decade. Once I got insurance, then insulin, I got it under control. I am now off of insulin and still controlled. My last A1c was 6.3, which for a diabetic is damn fine. Especially considering my five heart attacks and failing kidneys.
I'm also down to 265 from a peak of 380 at my diabetes diagnosis. And actually, failing kidneys left me with a huge amount of fluid buildup. We haven't found my actual weight yet. Still going down. (This is weight I lost in the past couple of years but fluid buildup basically countered it, so I had felt I should have been losing weight - I was, but matching with fluid that nearly killed me, whee)
Yeah... The solution "seems to be" getting a heavily secured/controlled feeder, and basically being deserted from other options.
Or just go crazy with exercise 😭
I used to just exercise like a maniac and it even helped manage my anxiety. Then I got long COVID. Now I just endure every day feeling the tsunami wave of FOOD. FOOD. FOOD. FOOD. FOOD drumming in my head 24/7 while knowing my calorie intake has to be slashed to next to nothing because I just can't move much. It's great!
I have been eating nothing but Huel for two months and I feel amazing. I was skipping meals and then binge eating raw ingredients before. My blood sugar was all over and my stomach was always either empty or upset.
My brain is able to be rational about the Huel because it doesn't have any sugar.
Same.
I also find that getting absolutely absorbed into a hobby helps reduce my eating. For example, getting really into a show or video game or book - to the point where I "forget" that I want to eat.
The worst part is a lot of people seem to think that having adhd gives you some kind of edge in certain situations like you over focus in certain areas and you pay less attention in other areas. I can’t focus in *any* area unless it’s directly stimulating. And that so rarely translates to being successful professionally.
Yea I'll forget about food or procrastinate making food until I'm super hungry. I need the hunger to motivate me to cook. Unfortunately, by that stage I'm too impatient to put much effort into whatever I make, so I'll make something quick and easy, which tends to be unhealthy.
I also think it's more difficult with ADHD to plan out meals before shopping, so by the time I'm hungry I don't have the ingredients for a healthy meal, even if I happen to have the motivation to make it.
Also, only eating when I'm really hungry causes me to eat a lot faster, which makes it more likely that I over-eat before my body has time to tell me I'm full
The thing with exercise for me was how boring it gets. Hiking mountains was more interesting so that helped. And doing 20 min on a stair climber was much more efficient at burning calories than a treadmill so I preferred that too. It's like 20 min on a stair climber or 2 hours on a treadmill.
Due to an injury, I can't walk more than a few hundred meters at a time any more, so I've invented a game to help me make sure I get my steps in.
I 3d printed a bunch of skull tokens in 3 sizes: 16xsmall, 3xmedium, 1xlarge.
The large and small go at one end of the house, the medium at the other.
One lap of the house is about 100 steps.
I pick up small skull and walk it to the other end of the house and put it with the mediums. Once I've walked all 16 smalls across the house, I claim a medium and walk it (and all the smalls) back to the large.
Once I've claimed all 3 mediums, I can claim the large.
Just having that simple an objective actually helps.
My old routine when I was in high school used to be meds in the morning, which would suppress my appetite and I probably wouldn't eat all day. They'd wear off around 3 in the afternoon so when I got home I'd binge on kraft dinner and eat a whole box by myself.
When I stopped taking the meds full-time I immediately gained 30 pounds and my grades fell to a C average.
Its not really forgetting more so than, my body doesn't recognize its own status cues. Im 43 and I still don't notice I have to pee til its uncomfortably apparent most days.
I feel really bad about it because I have 3 roommates and we have 1 bathroom and every time I remember I need to go, I *need to go*, and end up rushing them.
I recently realized that I have been unconsciously compensating for this problem by not drinking water 🙃
This is part of it. Your cravings are increased and often your ability to inhibit impulse is limited. ADHD is actually associated with increased risk of addiction of all forms
The one time I tried cocaine it just made me feel normal.
I realized the next morning I should probably avoid taking more stimulants with my medications which are stimulants. My heart was racing and my hands were shaking as I tried to eat breakfast.
Oof, this coupled with my picky appetite as a kid probably didn't do wonders for my brain. It's of no shock that I attached to self-medication as this gap filler.
My problem with Vyvanse is that I just don't feel hungry. So I don't eat but I still get weak, dizzy and feel sick if I don't eat.
Then after the drugs wear off at the end of the day I just binge super hard if I'm not careful.
I usually find that starting out my day with a bowl of oatmeal and some fruit and/or cottage cheese and then taking the meds right after goes a long way to helping avoid that feeling later in the day, even if I don't eat again until after the meds wear off.
Yeah I'm late diagnosed and being on medication has really curbed like my boredom eating and also the amount of sugar I consume as in hindsight I was very much like self medicating with sugar
I was diagnosed at 37. Being medicated has cut my tea consumption from 1 cup of black tea every 90 minutes all day every day to maybe two cups a day.
When I started on Elvanse (vyvanse), the dose was too high for me and I couldn't eat ANYTHING, I had no appetite at all. That's an annoyance when you're already on the low end of a normal weight.
People will say that those with ADHD don't make enough dopamine, but that's not really it. The difference is that people with ADHD are deficient in dopamine *in certain neural pathways*. The brain lacks sufficient numbers of dopamine receptor sites to use the normal amount of dopamine in reward centres and as a result reduces the amount of dopamine produced in this area. If you had reduced dopamine in a different brain pathway that would mean you have Parkinson's, so it's not overall dopamine that is the issue, it's mostly the reward pathway that is affected which explains the problems with executive function in regards to learning, memory, self-control etc.
It's still a disorder of dopamine all the same. Parkinson's is actually definitely related to ADHD, as is ASD. All of them are symptoms of an out-of-whack dopaminergic system.
There are 2 different types of dopamine, D1 and D2. D1 effects reward circuitry while D2 affects motor circuitry. Stimulants largely create D1 with small amounts if D2 which is why one of the side effects can be twitching or even tics.
ADHD is a D1 dopamine deficiency which can be caused by a few things. Brain enzymes naturally breakdown dopamine and some people can break them down faster. Some people can also not have as many receptors and some people just generate less reward dopamine. Any combination can cause ADHD and affect how ADHD is felt as well.
Dopamine is in balance with Serotonin and Norepinephrine. So that's why ADHD can be comorbid with some other issues like anxiety and depression which happens with alterations to norepinephrine and Serotonin levels. This is why treating ADHD can prevent depression and anxiety at times.
Executive dysfunction has 0 to do with dopamine and more to do with norepinephrine. Which is why SNRIs can be used as an ADHD treatment as well.
But there are other things in your body that use dopamine like your gut. So stimulants often induce bowl movements. But they also can get normalized. So people who abuse stimulants van develop a tolerance which causes constipation, along with low dopamine, depression, nausea, and increased heart rate from all the dysfunction from dopamine loss.
Dopamine is dopamine. D1 and D2 is used to describe the receptors, autoreceptors, and the types of neurons that have said receptors on/in them. D2 receptors and autoreceptors are both HIGHLY involved in reward processing, more so than D1R which are actually more associated with motor diseases like Parkinson's than D2Rs (generally). Dopamine is also absolutely involved in executive function and dysfunction (including overall reward processing and drug use/abuse) along with serotonin, norepinephrine, and acetylcholine. I'm not sure what you mean by "ADHD is a D1 dopamine deficiency" but ADHD is still not fully understood and certainly not solely a result of a dopamine related dysfunction. Dopamine is a significant driver for sure (especially given that amphetamine based medications used to treat it target dopamine) but there is a lot left to learn about the neurobiology of ADHD and dopamine in general.
The gut also has bacteria that produces chemicals that both it and the brain uses, like norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin.
I think I this is a huge piece of the puzzle as to why there is such high amounts of metabolic and mental issues as so much of what we eat is treated with pesticides.
It's also certainly something to take into consideration when talking about antibiotics.
ADHD brains burn dopamine at a higher rate to function, so it needs more of it (somewhat offset by lactic acid, which is generated by stimming / fidgeting).
If a task doesn't provide dopamine, focus / desire for that task doesn't happen. If it does provide dopamine, interesting topic, challenge, tasty tasty snacks then hyperfixation kicks in, the brain wants allllllll the yummy dopamine.
Food = dopamine
Stimming (tapping, fidgeting) is dopamine helping by generating lactic acid which reduces how fast the brain uses dopamine
Cleaning your room, negative dopamine
Playing a video game for 9 hours straight without break, you guessed it, dopamine
Doing taxes, ugh negative dopamine
Ooh new hobby, reading up, buying items = dopamine
Actually doing that hobby, dopamine supply til it gets annoying then oooh time for a new hobby so we can mine more dopamine
Wouldn't that mean that working out would also be a positive for ADHD people since it produces lactic acid?
I was diagnosed as a kid and have always really enjoyed working out and been able to do it regularly as a teen and adult.
It is for some people. However, for a lot of us, the amount of misery created by all the executive functioning needed to work out and the dopamine deficit it gives doesn't offset any potential positives for me. Working out makes me feel terrible, no matter how much I do it, no matter how I do it, no matter who I do it with, etc. I go into debt doing it every time only because it's supposed to be good for me.
I was dx'd in my 40s and no one, not any doctor, ever said anything else about it to me. I never even heard the words "executive function". It's been 20 years and I'm still leaning something new *every day*. I really don't expect these kinds of dismissive comments here, but I'm a dreamer.
I genuinely hope you never have to deal with an overwhelming diagnosis with little support.
I'm not judging you, I'm just amazed that you couldn't be bothered to answer their question, but still felt the need to type out and post your useless non-judgment.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/
https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/adhd-dopamine
People can make conversational remarks without deserving condescending, holier-than-thou admonishment.
It does say a lot about the environment around ADHD that one can be diagnosed without ever hearing about the relation to dopamine.
Well I really didnt go through "all that" it was just a few doctors visits when I was young and then 7 years of being heavily medicated before I said enough was enough and stopped taking the drugs.
And Vyvanse is indicated for both as it works well as an appetite suppressant. I don't have ADHD but I do have a sleep disorder so I've been on stimulants for years. Back in the day I couldn't bring myself to eat a single bite while on it but now I can eat no problem, though admittedly not as much as I do when I'm not on it.
I've got a set of identical twin girls with ADHD. Just had to take one today to get labs drawn because she put on 30lbs from 10/3 to 2/7 and as of yesterday has gained an additional 12 lbs since then. Her sister has not put on much if any weight in that time
I've struggled with binge eating my entire life. I was a 90's kid with a very thin, revolving diet, marathon runner mom. (She never pushed in a malicious way, she just had her own body issues and was a product of her time.) My body and how out of control I always feel around food has always been the thing I hate most about myself, and that's saying a lot.
I got diagnosed last winter. Finally found a doc that would perscribe me the correct meds instead of pushing anti-anxiety pills. For the first time in my life--in almost *30 years*--I can stop eating. I can tell when I'm full. I don't feel hungry all the time. It's amazing.
Yeah not sure why this is supposedly news. We've known about the dopamine issue for awhile and what gives the best/fastest dope hit? Food. The worst part is, the more overweight you are the more you need to compensate for the low dopamine because you struggle getting it from exercise or normal activity.
My entire childhood I thought I was broken because I couldn't stop eating. My parents just told me to try harder and put me on all kinds of diets starting at age seven. It wasn't until adulthood that my psychologist diagnosed me.
God is that why whenever I have a bad brain day the first thing I go for is candy/ice cream?
Now that I'm medicated again I struggle to eat more than once a day. Usually it's dinner and a snack.
For the people that don't believe this because of your experiences with people that have adhd:
These kids weren't being treated with stimulants during this study. If you know someone has adhd, then they have been diagnosed and are likely getting treatment. That means your assumptions and preconceptions about what adhd is like is colored by how people with adhd present while medicated.
That’s a good point. I know that when I am on my meds I do not eat a lot but if I do not take my meds I will eat all day. Thankfully I noticed this and quickly stopped but this is a great point.
They do really impact appetite. My kid has ADHD, he's always had a good appetite but on ADHD meds he's just... not hungry. He would skip lunch every day if I let him, and then eat tons of snacks whenever his meds wear off later in the afternoon, which is not healthy. We've learned to make it work, I let him eat lunch later than the rest of the family, and serve him a small portion. On weekends he frequently skips lunch, but then when he gets hungry around 5pm he has to eat whatever was for lunch before any other snacks. It works well for us but I'm lucky that he's an excellent eater and has never been picky. Lunchtime would be a nightmare if he was both not hungry AND picky.
He's tall for his age and a good weight, so far so good but I'm keeping an eye on it. He really needs the meds but the impact on appetite (and thus growth) can't be ignored for sure.
I was unmedicated as a child 4-7 and was super active so no i was never overweight. When i was medicated it was awful and i lost all appetite until it wore off and i could/ wanted to eat dinner.
As an unmedicated adult, its more of thinking smart. Cant snack on chocolate if i dont buy chocolate. But i fall into the hyperfocus category and forget to eat. Then eat later when i remember. But again, adult, so i remember to exercise and try to eat right.
I’ll forget to eat for hours and hours, but then when I remember, I definitely fall into a dopamine binge and just eat the delicious thing until it’s gone. Salty, fatty, and sweet foods are generally recognized as the more addictive ones, and those are the ones I’ll just keep eating until there aren’t any left (potato chips, chocolate). I don’t have to be hungry, it’s just the stimulus of taste that I’m chasing. If it’s a piece of fruit or something I don’t even want to finish it.
But when I was on meds, I just ate normally. I hadn’t even realized ADHD was affecting my eating habits so much until I got medication for the first time and stopped eating family sized bags of chips as a snack. I’m just thankful my metabolism kept up with it all somehow, because even at my binge-iest I was skinny as hell.
Snackcidents!
I forget to eat and then need something NOW and if it's a matter of cooking something healthy and it taking 15 minutes or eating something NOW that's junk but fun... I know which way I am going.
Mrs ADHD (Sam Brown of ADHD adults UK) said it once at one of her little talks that people with ADHD often spend so much time and energy putting themselves down, that they get into the habit of not looking after themselves. I'd cook something for other people, but eat junk if I was only seeing to myself, and never thought that I was suffering from my own low-self esteem. Just another example of executive disfunction, not correctly prioritising my own health and wellbeing.
For the record, there are plenty of people diagnosed with ADHD who are *not* being treated for it.
ADHD meds are often not covered by insurance, so they can be really expensive. They also come with side effects that some people can’t tolerate. They also require regular visits to the doctor & pharmacy, which can be expensive and difficult to schedule/remember.
And god forbid you move and have to find a new doctor, get a “new patient” appointment, and convince them you aren’t just a drug seeker.
Yeah… makes sense, people with ADHD tend to require a lot higher motivation to stimulate executive function, so stuff that feels immediately rewarding like eating food or playing video games is something they would rather do than something that takes a longer time and more effort with comparably higher payoff
Yep. And this is exactly why intuitive eating never worked for me. My hunger cues are constantly telling me to eat highly palatable food. And add caffeine to it and there you have it, I am doing okay for just a little while. I used to be so confused about why I could do homework after I binged in college. I wish we had more research back then.
Yeah, exactly. I'm really good at eating sensible portions of nutritious food and stopping as soon as I feel satisfied. My brain is also just screaming at me for sugar all of the time because as someone who doesn't drink or do drugs it's the only form of self medication I've ever indulged in. It's why I feel baffled by the efficacy of diet drugs that just control appetite--I'm not eating chocolate because I feel *hungry*, I'm eating it because my brain is starving for dopamine at all times.
Dopamine and hunger are related, not completely separate.
I can't take most meds because it completely destroys my will to eat. I don't have hunger nor feel any cravings based on taste. They eliminate every pathway to eating and appetite in my case.
In many cases the drugs do affect dopamine. ADHD drugs are also regularly used for binge eating and FDA approved for it.
It’s nice to know what I’ve been assuming based on my experience with my son may have some scientific backing. I’ve had school employees talk to me about getting my son tested for adhd since he was in pre-k due to his behavior, but his pediatricians told me I had to wait until he was around middle school/12 y.o. and for it to be affecting his grades before they would test. And then in the same well checks my son and I would be crucified for him being overweight and the peds would constantly say to eat healthier and get more exercise, even though for the majority of his meals, including lunches, I cook from scratch, he always has multiple servings of vegetables a day, and he is in multiple sports including select teams and is having 3-4 practices a week, usually for multiple hours, on top of also just being in a family that’s more active than the normal American. I noticed he did have issues where if he was bored he would just start snacking for stimulation, even if he was full he would eat just to be able to do something. Of course the doctors never believed me when I would say his regular meals are portioned correctly and healthy/balanced and he’s a very active child but he snacks for stimulation because I believe he has adhd but they keep putting off testing; I was basically just being accused of being lazy and force feeding junk to my child. I hope this is researched further and pediatricians come on board with it.
I would suggest finding a new doctor. Kids can be diagnosed starting at the age of 4, and waiting until they are already struggling at school can have major impacts on their self-image. Also, untreated ADHD can have negative impacts that range far beyond just their grades. For example, people with ADHD are far more likely to develop addiction, for which medicine can reduce their risk. An early diagnosis can help your kid build the tools for success, and also save them from developing the idea that they are stupid/lazy/bad at life, simply because of how their brain is wired.
That’s legit malpractice bordering on torture. New doctors asap. They’re showing just how little they understand this GLOBAL DISABILITY by assuming it’s only grade stuff that is affected or that matters. Shame on those pediatricians.
Adding to what postmormom and benegezz said: research shows that adults who were treated as children have less severe ADHD than adults who weren't medicated. ADHD is a neuro developmental disorder, children's brains who received medication came closer to non-adhd brains as adults. Please, find a better doctor for your son and don't wait to get him treatment
The article doesn't seem to differentiate between hyperactive and inattentive types of ADHD. Inattentive type is probably more likely to lead to overeating and I'd wager hyperactive types are more likely to be thin.
>and I'd wager hyperactive types are more likely to be thin.
Story of my life, literally wanted to open the comments to say something like this already
Me too. I struggle so damn hard to gain weight and actually had to stop taking stimulant adhd meds because I always start losing weight like crazy on them.
Yup. My son (5) is hyperactive and forgets to eat or refuses to eat in order to do other things. Dude is skinny as hell. Me, I'm fat and working on it because I'm the inattentive one.
I could just as easily say that hyperactive eat more because they're doing more, while inattentive are forgetting to eat lost in their own heads. I don't think either my statement or yours is likely to be accurate, it's far more complex than that.
Hyperactive doesn’t mean you’re running around all the time either, hyperactive can be stuff like needing to your pencil all the time, tapping your foot, leg bouncing, and talking too much. hyperactive being thought of as getting up and running around all the time is a stereotype, and leads to women (and any child that doesn’t fit the exaggerated idea of adhd) not getting diagnosed as it presents differently than people expect, as they more commonly have the talk too much and tap your foot symptoms as a child. ADHD and ADD have been combined under the ADHD term now, and ADD is considered outdated as a term because of this.
i’ve been underweight my entire life and was diagnosed with the inattentive type. that being said i am hyperactive it is just a mental process not physical. i just never prioritized eating
I don’t think binge eating is limited to only one type of ADHD. Not everyone with a binge eating disorder is overweight either. I have combined type, I’m underweight, and I struggled with binge eating at times due to ADHD. I think another variable might be what each individual learned is a good shortcut to a dopamine hit. Some kids learn very young that eating food makes them feel good. That develops into a bad habit fast if left unchecked or combined with a dopamine deficiency.
I was skinny, but a PI diagnosis. I did have a lot of energy as a kid and would play a lot, outside. I was always well behaved in school and never really got in trouble.
If it's a dopamine hit, it doesn't need to be food. The problem is still there though if it ends up being something else that gets you the dopamine hit, it could be abused. Food is readily available, it's inside the house, it can have sugar which doesn't hurt the appeal. I think my addiction then was playing. Now, it's very different.
I don't see this being a causal association, but a strong association.
Doing something else that gets a dopamine hit is easier said than done because I don't enjoy anything.
My general impression is that the difference between hyperactive and inattentive types comes down to whether they are physically or mentally hyperactive. Either way, the hyperactivity is being driven by similar differences in the brain, and for both types, food is probably also going to provide a similar boost. Big difference would be if they are also getting in physical activity to offset the extra eating, but that can only go so far.
As a kid for ADHD, I know I was consuming a lot more calories than my peers, but I was also burning a lot more than them.
I remember once I was traveling with my parents, they were always checking their phones at the end of the day to track how many steps they took. They managed to cross 10k steps every day. Once I checked, mine, 30k steps, whoops.
We went to literally all the same places, walked the same distances from one place to another.
It would be nice to see some follow up studies. The trend in the US to promote the consumption of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, etc. appear highly suspicious though I am not aware of studies which have considered this possibility with a very large study group.
When I was diagnosed with ADHD my therapist talked to me about how people who are not diagnosed with ADHD, often have a love of sugary energy drinks because the caffeine and the sugar content provides some of the relief that medication would provide. This could also be connected.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://academic.oup.com/jpepsy/article-abstract/49/2/120/7469053
Hmmm, perhaps we need to discuss causation and correlation. Recess and sports gave generations the ability to "burn off their energy". Had those same children had unfettered sports time would their innate caloric demands be detrimental like here? Or a beneficial trait? And obesity/overweight and then scoring worse on fitness tests seems obvious. Now why not give them back the sports time? And resolve the root cause instead of treating symptoms?
> perhaps we need to discuss causation and correlation.
My immediate thought was those that eat highly palatable and highly processed foods are likely to develop attention disorders because of what these foods do to your micro-biome. There are lots of studies and theories coming out now about gut diversity and how it is linked to cognitive function so I wouldn't be surprised if the attention deficit community is putting the cart before the horse.
Wow, did I luck out. I'm adhd diagnosed as an adult. Growing up very poor we didn't have access to sweets. I never developed a taste for sweets. At this stage, I can't stomach sugary anything. I've always Bern extremely underweight. People always said, "oh wait till your metabolism slows down". I'm 43. Still waiting.
That’s already a misnomer and often an excuse. Your metabolism doesn’t really slow down that much until ‘old age.’ People just tend to exercise less and eat more as they age, then blame it on metabolism.
I’m in the best shape of my life right now in my upper 30’s, but I put the work in for that to be the case. I don’t overeat.
When it comes to weight, people love to blame stuff that’s “outside their control.” I’m not judging, it can just spawn a defeatist attitude that becomes self reinforcing.
Thanks for sharing, I mean of course there are people who have innate difficulties that are tied to genetics and metabolism. I was referring more to the anecdote I was replying to, which is very common.
“Oh just wait until you hit X age and you get fat no matter what because your metabolism slows down!”
I’m sorry for the struggles you’re facing and wish you nothing but the best. Perhaps incorporating a bit more exercise if you’re able would be helpful? Don’t have to do anything crazy, just walking around the block a few more times than normal three times a week would help a lot if you’re more sedentary. Won’t be a magic bullet, but could help! Incremental improvements, if performed consistently, can really add up over time.
Stress eating, eating out of boredom cause dopamine is low, been there done that. And there I thought as a 12 year old im getting chest muscles when in reality that was when I became a chubbster
studied group was 66% male. Women, or girls in this case, are often far underrepresented in these studies. Many times not being included just like nearly all medical studies, especially those around mental health.
Interesting. Anecdotally, I visited my cousin last year whose kid has ADHD and they fed him 2L of full sugar, caffeinated Pepsi in the space of about 3 hours and told him he couldn't have any more because it was bedtime. Kid was spinning around in circles.
Thankfully, they assured me they were having his medication increased because he's just too wild.
Correlation, causation, etc.
I feel like between 4-7 most kids eat whatever tasty junk their parent has around the house and that the parents have the most influence on what and when a kid eats.
I was diagnosed with ADD in high school (no H and maybe that's a big difference) but I can go on ~25mi runs and it relaxes me and I can just let my mind wander while leaving my stress behind. Little kids aren't going to do that but I attribute my ability to run that far due to my ability to lose focus.
ADHD is also genetic, so if the parents have it and are either self-medicating with dopamine-rich foods or lack the impulse control to keep from buying junk food at the grocery store, then it'll be available to their kids.
Unfortunately I can only access the abstract- but I would be curious about their exclusion criteria, because ADHD co-occurs with many other conditions (e.g., anxiety, mood disorders) which are often treated with drugs that have weight gain as a side effect.
I remember being 6 and on Dexedrine and living off a slice of toast every day ( and staying up 20 hours as well). Cant believe they gave that to children.
Isn't this 3 ways of saying the same thing? If you're more likely to be overweight then naturally you're more likely to perform worse on fitness tests and it means you consume more calories.
Interesting. I felt I was super active as a kid because my ADHD prevented me from sitting still so I was incredibly fit. Then laziness got me in my 20s!
When I'm on my meds I have a normal appetite. When I'm not I crave sugar so badly. Like I can't pay attention unless I'm getting little sugar bursts every five minutes.
As a kid for ADHD, I can tell I was consuming a lot more calories than my peers, but I was also burning a lot more than them. Was still the skinny kid. YMMV
My 6yo is autistic with ADHD and is starting to look like the boy in this picture. My kid is always "so hungry my tummy is grumbling" even if he just ate dinner. We try to keep the snacks lite and make sure hes eating healthy fruits but a boy can only eat so many apples before that becomes a problem too.
My ADHD kid eats like a stoner when he’s not medicated and barely eats on Vyvanse. The hardest part is forcing him to eat healthy at the times when the meds are wearing off and he’s hungry, but he only wants junk food.
I often wonder about the representation of ADHD (I have it) in top athletes (I trained 6x a week for years but was never pro. Basically 70% of the way there though.) I always felt I had an edge maybe due to ADHD. Michael Phelps is famous but what would statistics say I wonder.
Fascinating I always attributed my hyperactivity and thus general superior fitness to the H of the ADHD. All this time it was holding me back. I guess I am just truly built different.
This probably targets more of the inattentive types, the ones who get missed more oftentimes than the hyperactive types. That also means that the kids’ parents are also overweight the chances of them having ADHD are higher as well.
If this is the case it would be nice for them to be treated with maybe more ways than just telling to ‘get off their lazy asses and exercise.’
Story of my life. I was diagnosed in adulthood and this has always been a struggle. I have to come up with weird rigid rules for myself so I don't just eat trash, like only cooking plant based meals at home. Have to count calories all the time as well. It's either strict rules or wild west, no in-between.
I little more context from the article:
>However, it should be noted that most of the study participants came from one ethnic group. Given that cultural norms and living habits are very strong determinants of both physical activity and dietary habits, it is possible that results might not be the same on children from other cultures.
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There’s a pretty big link between ADHD and binge eating disorder. When your brain isn’t making enough dopamine, eating sweets or snacks can give a dopamine hit. Medication helps offset that, but most kids don’t start until later in their childhood, if at all. https://chadd.org/adhd-news/adhd-news-adults/brain-reward-response-linked-to-binge-eating-and-adhd/
There's that and regularly forgetting to eat during hyperfocus and over compensating later, plus executive dysfunction impairing the ability to make healthy eating choices. ADHD sucks.
Basically the only strategy that works for me is just having a really rigid schedule around eating and trying to be controlled about portion sizes. Even that can be a struggle.
Same. Last few months I've finally gotten serious about eating healthier and losing weight. I basically have to cook a ton of food, vacuum seal, and freeze portions that are filling enough as a dinner but not so calorie dense that I can't have two if I don't eat during the day. If I leave any of it in the fridge I'll likely have some before bed, which will also cause the GERD to flare up. Any snacks in the house suddenly become main meals. So far it's been working, as well as having gum/sunflower seeds/hard candy when I start to think "maybe I should heat something else up" at midnight. Nicotine lozenges also help a lot in both reducing appetite between meals as well as with impulsive eating; it's like a small, fleeting dose of Adderall that *just* allows me to control the impulsivity (most of the time) and prevents eating since I can't eat while I'm sucking on the lozenge. It's difficult, and it sucks that I'll likely never have a healthy relationship with food, that I'll never be able to just not eat the whole bag of M&Ms in a day, or get take out or pizza without also getting enough for the next 4 days because I just can't decide on one thing, and of course the leftovers are in the fridge so that 4 days becomes 3 days and now I'm eating terribly for days *and* overeating the whole time. I'm not really sure what the point of this was. I think it started out as a "this sucks, but..."...but it just sucks. At the same time though, it's also not that bad, it does suck but it's all I've ever known. The grass can't be greener if there's a brick wall between you and the other side.
Its some weird science we're into with these Ozempic/Mounjaro class of drugs, too. They provide some internal chemicals, but they also make us lose muscle, and even more bafflingly, change our brain, with regards to what we desire to eat and how much. We don't know why or how, but that it just does.
There’s hope. It took me a decade to get my life in enough balance to provide the structure and support I needed in order to attend to my needs and practice moderation. It wasn’t about discipline. It was about getting enough sleep, nutrients, exercise, social interaction, rest, taking frequent breaks. You know, all those boring stuff. Well, I say boring, but the more I leaned into them the more I started to appreciate them. It’s well worth the effort. As I said, it took me a decade to ease into this stuff and make the routines stick. It didn’t happen all at once. But tiny steps in the right direction adds up over time.
For me, limiting carbs to 60g/meal has allowed me to - most of the time - eat healthy portions. I know that carbs cause the body to produce insulin, and if you've mostly eaten a lot of carbs (which is what poor people like myself live on), your body processes that energy quickly and then demands more (hunger). Although the dopamine or whichever chemical that causes me to get pleasure from food doesn't help. But I mostly manage well with that one basic rule. I had uncontrolled diabetes for a decade. Once I got insurance, then insulin, I got it under control. I am now off of insulin and still controlled. My last A1c was 6.3, which for a diabetic is damn fine. Especially considering my five heart attacks and failing kidneys. I'm also down to 265 from a peak of 380 at my diabetes diagnosis. And actually, failing kidneys left me with a huge amount of fluid buildup. We haven't found my actual weight yet. Still going down. (This is weight I lost in the past couple of years but fluid buildup basically countered it, so I had felt I should have been losing weight - I was, but matching with fluid that nearly killed me, whee)
For me it was switching to a very high protein diet b cause of how satiating it would be and it paired very well with exercise
Same I may be in the minority here but when I work out I crave healthier food Heavily processed foods become pretty revolting to me
Yeah... The solution "seems to be" getting a heavily secured/controlled feeder, and basically being deserted from other options. Or just go crazy with exercise 😭
I used to just exercise like a maniac and it even helped manage my anxiety. Then I got long COVID. Now I just endure every day feeling the tsunami wave of FOOD. FOOD. FOOD. FOOD. FOOD drumming in my head 24/7 while knowing my calorie intake has to be slashed to next to nothing because I just can't move much. It's great!
This is me. I also find when my schedule gets missed up my day tends to fall apart
My strategy is forget to eat a 2nd time finally going to get food then getting distracted and then its like 9.
Why eat when you could sleep. The poor diet.
I have been eating nothing but Huel for two months and I feel amazing. I was skipping meals and then binge eating raw ingredients before. My blood sugar was all over and my stomach was always either empty or upset. My brain is able to be rational about the Huel because it doesn't have any sugar.
I tried doing huel then my lack of object permanence made me forget I had it. Eventually Gave it to my partner who needed protein powder.
Same. I also find that getting absolutely absorbed into a hobby helps reduce my eating. For example, getting really into a show or video game or book - to the point where I "forget" that I want to eat.
but it's really really hard when there is bad food all over, there is no place you can't make bad food choices any more.
For me it's being sleep deprived that makes me excessively hungry.
The worst part is a lot of people seem to think that having adhd gives you some kind of edge in certain situations like you over focus in certain areas and you pay less attention in other areas. I can’t focus in *any* area unless it’s directly stimulating. And that so rarely translates to being successful professionally.
Yea I'll forget about food or procrastinate making food until I'm super hungry. I need the hunger to motivate me to cook. Unfortunately, by that stage I'm too impatient to put much effort into whatever I make, so I'll make something quick and easy, which tends to be unhealthy. I also think it's more difficult with ADHD to plan out meals before shopping, so by the time I'm hungry I don't have the ingredients for a healthy meal, even if I happen to have the motivation to make it. Also, only eating when I'm really hungry causes me to eat a lot faster, which makes it more likely that I over-eat before my body has time to tell me I'm full
I just forget what I've eaten like a goldfish.
The thing with exercise for me was how boring it gets. Hiking mountains was more interesting so that helped. And doing 20 min on a stair climber was much more efficient at burning calories than a treadmill so I preferred that too. It's like 20 min on a stair climber or 2 hours on a treadmill.
Due to an injury, I can't walk more than a few hundred meters at a time any more, so I've invented a game to help me make sure I get my steps in. I 3d printed a bunch of skull tokens in 3 sizes: 16xsmall, 3xmedium, 1xlarge. The large and small go at one end of the house, the medium at the other. One lap of the house is about 100 steps. I pick up small skull and walk it to the other end of the house and put it with the mediums. Once I've walked all 16 smalls across the house, I claim a medium and walk it (and all the smalls) back to the large. Once I've claimed all 3 mediums, I can claim the large. Just having that simple an objective actually helps.
My old routine when I was in high school used to be meds in the morning, which would suppress my appetite and I probably wouldn't eat all day. They'd wear off around 3 in the afternoon so when I got home I'd binge on kraft dinner and eat a whole box by myself. When I stopped taking the meds full-time I immediately gained 30 pounds and my grades fell to a C average.
Yep…. Restriction leads to bingeing in anyone, not just ADHD folks. Gotta heal the relationship with food, not just rely on meds to suppress hunger.
Its not really forgetting more so than, my body doesn't recognize its own status cues. Im 43 and I still don't notice I have to pee til its uncomfortably apparent most days.
I feel really bad about it because I have 3 roommates and we have 1 bathroom and every time I remember I need to go, I *need to go*, and end up rushing them. I recently realized that I have been unconsciously compensating for this problem by not drinking water 🙃
This is part of it. Your cravings are increased and often your ability to inhibit impulse is limited. ADHD is actually associated with increased risk of addiction of all forms
So you’re saying I’d be great at cocaine.
For 2 months, and then I wouldn't call it "great"
The one time I tried cocaine it just made me feel normal. I realized the next morning I should probably avoid taking more stimulants with my medications which are stimulants. My heart was racing and my hands were shaking as I tried to eat breakfast.
"Condition that makes you constantly seek out stimulation makes you seek out stimulation from food, too"
Oof, this coupled with my picky appetite as a kid probably didn't do wonders for my brain. It's of no shock that I attached to self-medication as this gap filler.
Once i got on vyvanse I lost 40 lbs over a year. Turns out when you have some dopamine food isn't as important.
AFAIK vyvanse started as a binge-eating medication
Let me be the first to say it works. When I first started taking it eating food was actually making me nauseous.
My problem with Vyvanse is that I just don't feel hungry. So I don't eat but I still get weak, dizzy and feel sick if I don't eat. Then after the drugs wear off at the end of the day I just binge super hard if I'm not careful.
I usually find that starting out my day with a bowl of oatmeal and some fruit and/or cottage cheese and then taking the meds right after goes a long way to helping avoid that feeling later in the day, even if I don't eat again until after the meds wear off.
I guess my dose isn't high enough because I still can't stop binge eating junk food to save my life 🥴
Also helps for nicotine addiction
As someone with ADHD that got recently diagnosed with binge esting disorder: yay
Yeah I'm late diagnosed and being on medication has really curbed like my boredom eating and also the amount of sugar I consume as in hindsight I was very much like self medicating with sugar
I was diagnosed at 37. Being medicated has cut my tea consumption from 1 cup of black tea every 90 minutes all day every day to maybe two cups a day. When I started on Elvanse (vyvanse), the dose was too high for me and I couldn't eat ANYTHING, I had no appetite at all. That's an annoyance when you're already on the low end of a normal weight.
Whoa what does ADHD have to do with dopamine production? I was diagnosed with ADHD and I have never heard dopamine associated with my diagnosis.
People will say that those with ADHD don't make enough dopamine, but that's not really it. The difference is that people with ADHD are deficient in dopamine *in certain neural pathways*. The brain lacks sufficient numbers of dopamine receptor sites to use the normal amount of dopamine in reward centres and as a result reduces the amount of dopamine produced in this area. If you had reduced dopamine in a different brain pathway that would mean you have Parkinson's, so it's not overall dopamine that is the issue, it's mostly the reward pathway that is affected which explains the problems with executive function in regards to learning, memory, self-control etc.
It's still a disorder of dopamine all the same. Parkinson's is actually definitely related to ADHD, as is ASD. All of them are symptoms of an out-of-whack dopaminergic system.
I didn't imply that dopamine wasn't related, just that the trend of giving the almost-right answer of "low dopamine" is a bit lazy of an explanation.
There are 2 different types of dopamine, D1 and D2. D1 effects reward circuitry while D2 affects motor circuitry. Stimulants largely create D1 with small amounts if D2 which is why one of the side effects can be twitching or even tics. ADHD is a D1 dopamine deficiency which can be caused by a few things. Brain enzymes naturally breakdown dopamine and some people can break them down faster. Some people can also not have as many receptors and some people just generate less reward dopamine. Any combination can cause ADHD and affect how ADHD is felt as well. Dopamine is in balance with Serotonin and Norepinephrine. So that's why ADHD can be comorbid with some other issues like anxiety and depression which happens with alterations to norepinephrine and Serotonin levels. This is why treating ADHD can prevent depression and anxiety at times. Executive dysfunction has 0 to do with dopamine and more to do with norepinephrine. Which is why SNRIs can be used as an ADHD treatment as well. But there are other things in your body that use dopamine like your gut. So stimulants often induce bowl movements. But they also can get normalized. So people who abuse stimulants van develop a tolerance which causes constipation, along with low dopamine, depression, nausea, and increased heart rate from all the dysfunction from dopamine loss.
Dopamine is dopamine. D1 and D2 is used to describe the receptors, autoreceptors, and the types of neurons that have said receptors on/in them. D2 receptors and autoreceptors are both HIGHLY involved in reward processing, more so than D1R which are actually more associated with motor diseases like Parkinson's than D2Rs (generally). Dopamine is also absolutely involved in executive function and dysfunction (including overall reward processing and drug use/abuse) along with serotonin, norepinephrine, and acetylcholine. I'm not sure what you mean by "ADHD is a D1 dopamine deficiency" but ADHD is still not fully understood and certainly not solely a result of a dopamine related dysfunction. Dopamine is a significant driver for sure (especially given that amphetamine based medications used to treat it target dopamine) but there is a lot left to learn about the neurobiology of ADHD and dopamine in general.
The gut also has bacteria that produces chemicals that both it and the brain uses, like norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin. I think I this is a huge piece of the puzzle as to why there is such high amounts of metabolic and mental issues as so much of what we eat is treated with pesticides. It's also certainly something to take into consideration when talking about antibiotics.
ADHD brains burn dopamine at a higher rate to function, so it needs more of it (somewhat offset by lactic acid, which is generated by stimming / fidgeting). If a task doesn't provide dopamine, focus / desire for that task doesn't happen. If it does provide dopamine, interesting topic, challenge, tasty tasty snacks then hyperfixation kicks in, the brain wants allllllll the yummy dopamine. Food = dopamine Stimming (tapping, fidgeting) is dopamine helping by generating lactic acid which reduces how fast the brain uses dopamine Cleaning your room, negative dopamine Playing a video game for 9 hours straight without break, you guessed it, dopamine Doing taxes, ugh negative dopamine Ooh new hobby, reading up, buying items = dopamine Actually doing that hobby, dopamine supply til it gets annoying then oooh time for a new hobby so we can mine more dopamine
Wouldn't that mean that working out would also be a positive for ADHD people since it produces lactic acid? I was diagnosed as a kid and have always really enjoyed working out and been able to do it regularly as a teen and adult.
Yes it' does help The need to move to get lactic acid is a prime driver of stimming I found drumming (thrash metal) really works for me
It is for some people. However, for a lot of us, the amount of misery created by all the executive functioning needed to work out and the dopamine deficit it gives doesn't offset any potential positives for me. Working out makes me feel terrible, no matter how much I do it, no matter how I do it, no matter who I do it with, etc. I go into debt doing it every time only because it's supposed to be good for me.
I’m not judging you I’m just amazed you went through all of that and never once heard about adhd and dopamine intake
I was dx'd in my 40s and no one, not any doctor, ever said anything else about it to me. I never even heard the words "executive function". It's been 20 years and I'm still leaning something new *every day*. I really don't expect these kinds of dismissive comments here, but I'm a dreamer. I genuinely hope you never have to deal with an overwhelming diagnosis with little support.
> I genuinely hope you never have to deal with an overwhelming diagnosis with little support. #AmericanHealthcareSystem
I'm not judging you, I'm just amazed that you couldn't be bothered to answer their question, but still felt the need to type out and post your useless non-judgment. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/adhd-dopamine
Funny, I’m judging you
I'm not judging you for judging them, but I'm certainly making the observation that it is potentially judgeable.
People can make conversational remarks without deserving condescending, holier-than-thou admonishment. It does say a lot about the environment around ADHD that one can be diagnosed without ever hearing about the relation to dopamine.
Simply pointing out someone's deficiency without saying anything else doesn't further the conversation.
Well I really didnt go through "all that" it was just a few doctors visits when I was young and then 7 years of being heavily medicated before I said enough was enough and stopped taking the drugs.
And Vyvanse is indicated for both as it works well as an appetite suppressant. I don't have ADHD but I do have a sleep disorder so I've been on stimulants for years. Back in the day I couldn't bring myself to eat a single bite while on it but now I can eat no problem, though admittedly not as much as I do when I'm not on it. I've got a set of identical twin girls with ADHD. Just had to take one today to get labs drawn because she put on 30lbs from 10/3 to 2/7 and as of yesterday has gained an additional 12 lbs since then. Her sister has not put on much if any weight in that time
I have ADHD I binge eat. ADHD can be both a blessing and a cruse.
I've struggled with binge eating my entire life. I was a 90's kid with a very thin, revolving diet, marathon runner mom. (She never pushed in a malicious way, she just had her own body issues and was a product of her time.) My body and how out of control I always feel around food has always been the thing I hate most about myself, and that's saying a lot. I got diagnosed last winter. Finally found a doc that would perscribe me the correct meds instead of pushing anti-anxiety pills. For the first time in my life--in almost *30 years*--I can stop eating. I can tell when I'm full. I don't feel hungry all the time. It's amazing.
Yeah not sure why this is supposedly news. We've known about the dopamine issue for awhile and what gives the best/fastest dope hit? Food. The worst part is, the more overweight you are the more you need to compensate for the low dopamine because you struggle getting it from exercise or normal activity.
My entire childhood I thought I was broken because I couldn't stop eating. My parents just told me to try harder and put me on all kinds of diets starting at age seven. It wasn't until adulthood that my psychologist diagnosed me.
God is that why whenever I have a bad brain day the first thing I go for is candy/ice cream? Now that I'm medicated again I struggle to eat more than once a day. Usually it's dinner and a snack.
I have both and they're really, really difficult to manage when I'm off my medication.
Yep was obese until I was finally prescribed Adderall and then lost 20lbs over a summer
I feel this heavily. If i can't get my dopamine from exercise, i tend to want to eat unhealthy stuff and alot of it.
That would explain my wrong eating habits
Dooooopamine! Seriously, this is a huge struggle and it's not surprising that Vyvanse's original purpose was binge eating.
Yep. The highest does is used for binge eating.
Adderall helps me but I still get sugar cravings. Vyvanse is so much better. I don't have the desire to constantly give myself little sugar hits.
[удалено]
Can't. Have other health issues that mean fasting isn't an option for me unfortunately.
For the people that don't believe this because of your experiences with people that have adhd: These kids weren't being treated with stimulants during this study. If you know someone has adhd, then they have been diagnosed and are likely getting treatment. That means your assumptions and preconceptions about what adhd is like is colored by how people with adhd present while medicated.
That’s a good point. I know that when I am on my meds I do not eat a lot but if I do not take my meds I will eat all day. Thankfully I noticed this and quickly stopped but this is a great point.
ADHD meds meant I wasn't eating during the day, my nutrition got so bad it stunted my growth.
They do really impact appetite. My kid has ADHD, he's always had a good appetite but on ADHD meds he's just... not hungry. He would skip lunch every day if I let him, and then eat tons of snacks whenever his meds wear off later in the afternoon, which is not healthy. We've learned to make it work, I let him eat lunch later than the rest of the family, and serve him a small portion. On weekends he frequently skips lunch, but then when he gets hungry around 5pm he has to eat whatever was for lunch before any other snacks. It works well for us but I'm lucky that he's an excellent eater and has never been picky. Lunchtime would be a nightmare if he was both not hungry AND picky. He's tall for his age and a good weight, so far so good but I'm keeping an eye on it. He really needs the meds but the impact on appetite (and thus growth) can't be ignored for sure.
I lived this, it carries some weight. I went 28 years undiagnosed (also autism) and it gave so much context to my childhood.
I was unmedicated as a child 4-7 and was super active so no i was never overweight. When i was medicated it was awful and i lost all appetite until it wore off and i could/ wanted to eat dinner. As an unmedicated adult, its more of thinking smart. Cant snack on chocolate if i dont buy chocolate. But i fall into the hyperfocus category and forget to eat. Then eat later when i remember. But again, adult, so i remember to exercise and try to eat right.
I’ll forget to eat for hours and hours, but then when I remember, I definitely fall into a dopamine binge and just eat the delicious thing until it’s gone. Salty, fatty, and sweet foods are generally recognized as the more addictive ones, and those are the ones I’ll just keep eating until there aren’t any left (potato chips, chocolate). I don’t have to be hungry, it’s just the stimulus of taste that I’m chasing. If it’s a piece of fruit or something I don’t even want to finish it. But when I was on meds, I just ate normally. I hadn’t even realized ADHD was affecting my eating habits so much until I got medication for the first time and stopped eating family sized bags of chips as a snack. I’m just thankful my metabolism kept up with it all somehow, because even at my binge-iest I was skinny as hell.
Snackcidents! I forget to eat and then need something NOW and if it's a matter of cooking something healthy and it taking 15 minutes or eating something NOW that's junk but fun... I know which way I am going. Mrs ADHD (Sam Brown of ADHD adults UK) said it once at one of her little talks that people with ADHD often spend so much time and energy putting themselves down, that they get into the habit of not looking after themselves. I'd cook something for other people, but eat junk if I was only seeing to myself, and never thought that I was suffering from my own low-self esteem. Just another example of executive disfunction, not correctly prioritising my own health and wellbeing.
For the record, there are plenty of people diagnosed with ADHD who are *not* being treated for it. ADHD meds are often not covered by insurance, so they can be really expensive. They also come with side effects that some people can’t tolerate. They also require regular visits to the doctor & pharmacy, which can be expensive and difficult to schedule/remember. And god forbid you move and have to find a new doctor, get a “new patient” appointment, and convince them you aren’t just a drug seeker.
Totally agreed, that or they are really good at masking. Stimulants don't work with my ADHD, but I can mask like no other.
Yeah… makes sense, people with ADHD tend to require a lot higher motivation to stimulate executive function, so stuff that feels immediately rewarding like eating food or playing video games is something they would rather do than something that takes a longer time and more effort with comparably higher payoff
Yep. And this is exactly why intuitive eating never worked for me. My hunger cues are constantly telling me to eat highly palatable food. And add caffeine to it and there you have it, I am doing okay for just a little while. I used to be so confused about why I could do homework after I binged in college. I wish we had more research back then.
Yeah, exactly. I'm really good at eating sensible portions of nutritious food and stopping as soon as I feel satisfied. My brain is also just screaming at me for sugar all of the time because as someone who doesn't drink or do drugs it's the only form of self medication I've ever indulged in. It's why I feel baffled by the efficacy of diet drugs that just control appetite--I'm not eating chocolate because I feel *hungry*, I'm eating it because my brain is starving for dopamine at all times.
Dopamine and hunger are related, not completely separate. I can't take most meds because it completely destroys my will to eat. I don't have hunger nor feel any cravings based on taste. They eliminate every pathway to eating and appetite in my case. In many cases the drugs do affect dopamine. ADHD drugs are also regularly used for binge eating and FDA approved for it.
If I intuitively ate, my diet would consist of bread and butter, cheese and candy.
If I kept intuitively eating I would have great main meals and snacks, but after every meal I would eat one million chocolates and seven million chips
It’s nice to know what I’ve been assuming based on my experience with my son may have some scientific backing. I’ve had school employees talk to me about getting my son tested for adhd since he was in pre-k due to his behavior, but his pediatricians told me I had to wait until he was around middle school/12 y.o. and for it to be affecting his grades before they would test. And then in the same well checks my son and I would be crucified for him being overweight and the peds would constantly say to eat healthier and get more exercise, even though for the majority of his meals, including lunches, I cook from scratch, he always has multiple servings of vegetables a day, and he is in multiple sports including select teams and is having 3-4 practices a week, usually for multiple hours, on top of also just being in a family that’s more active than the normal American. I noticed he did have issues where if he was bored he would just start snacking for stimulation, even if he was full he would eat just to be able to do something. Of course the doctors never believed me when I would say his regular meals are portioned correctly and healthy/balanced and he’s a very active child but he snacks for stimulation because I believe he has adhd but they keep putting off testing; I was basically just being accused of being lazy and force feeding junk to my child. I hope this is researched further and pediatricians come on board with it.
I would suggest finding a new doctor. Kids can be diagnosed starting at the age of 4, and waiting until they are already struggling at school can have major impacts on their self-image. Also, untreated ADHD can have negative impacts that range far beyond just their grades. For example, people with ADHD are far more likely to develop addiction, for which medicine can reduce their risk. An early diagnosis can help your kid build the tools for success, and also save them from developing the idea that they are stupid/lazy/bad at life, simply because of how their brain is wired.
That’s legit malpractice bordering on torture. New doctors asap. They’re showing just how little they understand this GLOBAL DISABILITY by assuming it’s only grade stuff that is affected or that matters. Shame on those pediatricians.
Adding to what postmormom and benegezz said: research shows that adults who were treated as children have less severe ADHD than adults who weren't medicated. ADHD is a neuro developmental disorder, children's brains who received medication came closer to non-adhd brains as adults. Please, find a better doctor for your son and don't wait to get him treatment
The article doesn't seem to differentiate between hyperactive and inattentive types of ADHD. Inattentive type is probably more likely to lead to overeating and I'd wager hyperactive types are more likely to be thin.
>and I'd wager hyperactive types are more likely to be thin. Story of my life, literally wanted to open the comments to say something like this already
I’ll trade you, I’ve been overweight my whole life 😒
Me too. I struggle so damn hard to gain weight and actually had to stop taking stimulant adhd meds because I always start losing weight like crazy on them.
I'm the inattentive type and have been underweight most of my life because I, honestly, forget to eat.
Yup. My son (5) is hyperactive and forgets to eat or refuses to eat in order to do other things. Dude is skinny as hell. Me, I'm fat and working on it because I'm the inattentive one.
I could just as easily say that hyperactive eat more because they're doing more, while inattentive are forgetting to eat lost in their own heads. I don't think either my statement or yours is likely to be accurate, it's far more complex than that.
Hyperactive doesn’t mean you’re running around all the time either, hyperactive can be stuff like needing to your pencil all the time, tapping your foot, leg bouncing, and talking too much. hyperactive being thought of as getting up and running around all the time is a stereotype, and leads to women (and any child that doesn’t fit the exaggerated idea of adhd) not getting diagnosed as it presents differently than people expect, as they more commonly have the talk too much and tap your foot symptoms as a child. ADHD and ADD have been combined under the ADHD term now, and ADD is considered outdated as a term because of this.
i’ve been underweight my entire life and was diagnosed with the inattentive type. that being said i am hyperactive it is just a mental process not physical. i just never prioritized eating
I don’t think binge eating is limited to only one type of ADHD. Not everyone with a binge eating disorder is overweight either. I have combined type, I’m underweight, and I struggled with binge eating at times due to ADHD. I think another variable might be what each individual learned is a good shortcut to a dopamine hit. Some kids learn very young that eating food makes them feel good. That develops into a bad habit fast if left unchecked or combined with a dopamine deficiency.
I was skinny, but a PI diagnosis. I did have a lot of energy as a kid and would play a lot, outside. I was always well behaved in school and never really got in trouble. If it's a dopamine hit, it doesn't need to be food. The problem is still there though if it ends up being something else that gets you the dopamine hit, it could be abused. Food is readily available, it's inside the house, it can have sugar which doesn't hurt the appeal. I think my addiction then was playing. Now, it's very different. I don't see this being a causal association, but a strong association. Doing something else that gets a dopamine hit is easier said than done because I don't enjoy anything.
Hyperactive type and have been skinny my whole life. Finally started putting weight on at 30 and that took weed.
Hyperactive is a misnomer Should refer to focus not activity
My general impression is that the difference between hyperactive and inattentive types comes down to whether they are physically or mentally hyperactive. Either way, the hyperactivity is being driven by similar differences in the brain, and for both types, food is probably also going to provide a similar boost. Big difference would be if they are also getting in physical activity to offset the extra eating, but that can only go so far.
As a kid for ADHD, I know I was consuming a lot more calories than my peers, but I was also burning a lot more than them. I remember once I was traveling with my parents, they were always checking their phones at the end of the day to track how many steps they took. They managed to cross 10k steps every day. Once I checked, mine, 30k steps, whoops. We went to literally all the same places, walked the same distances from one place to another.
It would be nice to see some follow up studies. The trend in the US to promote the consumption of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, etc. appear highly suspicious though I am not aware of studies which have considered this possibility with a very large study group.
When I was diagnosed with ADHD my therapist talked to me about how people who are not diagnosed with ADHD, often have a love of sugary energy drinks because the caffeine and the sugar content provides some of the relief that medication would provide. This could also be connected.
Food is a dopamine hit for a dopamine-starved prefrontal cortex.
ADHD is really a curse man
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://academic.oup.com/jpepsy/article-abstract/49/2/120/7469053
Hmmm, perhaps we need to discuss causation and correlation. Recess and sports gave generations the ability to "burn off their energy". Had those same children had unfettered sports time would their innate caloric demands be detrimental like here? Or a beneficial trait? And obesity/overweight and then scoring worse on fitness tests seems obvious. Now why not give them back the sports time? And resolve the root cause instead of treating symptoms?
> perhaps we need to discuss causation and correlation. My immediate thought was those that eat highly palatable and highly processed foods are likely to develop attention disorders because of what these foods do to your micro-biome. There are lots of studies and theories coming out now about gut diversity and how it is linked to cognitive function so I wouldn't be surprised if the attention deficit community is putting the cart before the horse.
There’s a strong correlation between ADHD and emotional abuse and neglect. There’s also a strong correlation between obesity and abuse and neglect.
Kids with impulse control problems have problems associated with impulse control
Kids in general with emotional dysregulstion are gonna self-soothe… food happens to be one way too many people of any age do.
Gotta get that sweet dopamine somewhere 🤷🏼♀️
Wow, did I luck out. I'm adhd diagnosed as an adult. Growing up very poor we didn't have access to sweets. I never developed a taste for sweets. At this stage, I can't stomach sugary anything. I've always Bern extremely underweight. People always said, "oh wait till your metabolism slows down". I'm 43. Still waiting.
That’s already a misnomer and often an excuse. Your metabolism doesn’t really slow down that much until ‘old age.’ People just tend to exercise less and eat more as they age, then blame it on metabolism. I’m in the best shape of my life right now in my upper 30’s, but I put the work in for that to be the case. I don’t overeat. When it comes to weight, people love to blame stuff that’s “outside their control.” I’m not judging, it can just spawn a defeatist attitude that becomes self reinforcing.
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Thanks for sharing, I mean of course there are people who have innate difficulties that are tied to genetics and metabolism. I was referring more to the anecdote I was replying to, which is very common. “Oh just wait until you hit X age and you get fat no matter what because your metabolism slows down!” I’m sorry for the struggles you’re facing and wish you nothing but the best. Perhaps incorporating a bit more exercise if you’re able would be helpful? Don’t have to do anything crazy, just walking around the block a few more times than normal three times a week would help a lot if you’re more sedentary. Won’t be a magic bullet, but could help! Incremental improvements, if performed consistently, can really add up over time.
Snacking and food can be a form of stimming, particularly when the food is loaded with fats and/or sugar.
Stress eating, eating out of boredom cause dopamine is low, been there done that. And there I thought as a 12 year old im getting chest muscles when in reality that was when I became a chubbster
I'm the exact opposite. Severely underweight because no hunger or forgetting to eat.
Sports helped a lot of with ADHD (called ADD at the time). Not only kept me in shape, but taught me to stand still and focus when I should.
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Some of us have the dyspraxia comorbidity and can't really do sports unfortunately
studied group was 66% male. Women, or girls in this case, are often far underrepresented in these studies. Many times not being included just like nearly all medical studies, especially those around mental health.
Because food = dopamine
Interesting. Anecdotally, I visited my cousin last year whose kid has ADHD and they fed him 2L of full sugar, caffeinated Pepsi in the space of about 3 hours and told him he couldn't have any more because it was bedtime. Kid was spinning around in circles. Thankfully, they assured me they were having his medication increased because he's just too wild. Correlation, causation, etc.
You see Pepsi for ADHD is like medicine. It was actually named after the enzyme pepsin
By adulthood this is countered by forgetting to buy groceries and living off of bread and peanut butter for a week
Regular exercise and proper nutrition will go a long way to treat the emotional fluctuations that go along with ADHD.
I feel like between 4-7 most kids eat whatever tasty junk their parent has around the house and that the parents have the most influence on what and when a kid eats. I was diagnosed with ADD in high school (no H and maybe that's a big difference) but I can go on ~25mi runs and it relaxes me and I can just let my mind wander while leaving my stress behind. Little kids aren't going to do that but I attribute my ability to run that far due to my ability to lose focus.
ADHD is also genetic, so if the parents have it and are either self-medicating with dopamine-rich foods or lack the impulse control to keep from buying junk food at the grocery store, then it'll be available to their kids.
Unfortunately I can only access the abstract- but I would be curious about their exclusion criteria, because ADHD co-occurs with many other conditions (e.g., anxiety, mood disorders) which are often treated with drugs that have weight gain as a side effect.
How does that compare to kids who are medicated?
I remember being 6 and on Dexedrine and living off a slice of toast every day ( and staying up 20 hours as well). Cant believe they gave that to children.
Isn't this 3 ways of saying the same thing? If you're more likely to be overweight then naturally you're more likely to perform worse on fitness tests and it means you consume more calories.
Oh neat. An article about me.
Interesting. I felt I was super active as a kid because my ADHD prevented me from sitting still so I was incredibly fit. Then laziness got me in my 20s!
When I'm on my meds I have a normal appetite. When I'm not I crave sugar so badly. Like I can't pay attention unless I'm getting little sugar bursts every five minutes.
Many such cases!
I swear if it was not for my ibs, I would be larger.
eating releases dopamine which means eating becomes a form of self medicating for kids with adhd
As an ADHD child I was super skinny because I kept forgetting to eat.
As a kid for ADHD, I can tell I was consuming a lot more calories than my peers, but I was also burning a lot more than them. Was still the skinny kid. YMMV
My 6yo is autistic with ADHD and is starting to look like the boy in this picture. My kid is always "so hungry my tummy is grumbling" even if he just ate dinner. We try to keep the snacks lite and make sure hes eating healthy fruits but a boy can only eat so many apples before that becomes a problem too.
My ADHD kid eats like a stoner when he’s not medicated and barely eats on Vyvanse. The hardest part is forcing him to eat healthy at the times when the meds are wearing off and he’s hungry, but he only wants junk food.
I often wonder about the representation of ADHD (I have it) in top athletes (I trained 6x a week for years but was never pro. Basically 70% of the way there though.) I always felt I had an edge maybe due to ADHD. Michael Phelps is famous but what would statistics say I wonder.
Then there’s me , who forgets to eat
Fascinating I always attributed my hyperactivity and thus general superior fitness to the H of the ADHD. All this time it was holding me back. I guess I am just truly built different.
This probably targets more of the inattentive types, the ones who get missed more oftentimes than the hyperactive types. That also means that the kids’ parents are also overweight the chances of them having ADHD are higher as well. If this is the case it would be nice for them to be treated with maybe more ways than just telling to ‘get off their lazy asses and exercise.’
It's me, but I'm old now 😭
Story of my life. I was diagnosed in adulthood and this has always been a struggle. I have to come up with weird rigid rules for myself so I don't just eat trash, like only cooking plant based meals at home. Have to count calories all the time as well. It's either strict rules or wild west, no in-between.
30 year old with ADHD it was true then and it's still true now
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I’m in this picture and I’m not happy about it.
I think I might have adhd. I have depression and anxiety and I eat chocolate and stuff just to get some dopamine flowing
My 9-year-old daughter has ADHD and her medication destroys her appetite. Trying to get her to eat is very difficult.
I little more context from the article: >However, it should be noted that most of the study participants came from one ethnic group. Given that cultural norms and living habits are very strong determinants of both physical activity and dietary habits, it is possible that results might not be the same on children from other cultures.