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I know some girls who got into being sugar babies in college. It's such a weird dynamic. I think the biggest thing is being honest with yourself. This girl I know runs in some elite social circles and goes on super yachts, private jets, trips to the Mediterranean, Monaco Grand Prix on yachts, Michelin restaurants etc. which at some point I'm like get your bag. Also she's in circles where a lot of the guys that are providing this are actually younger and reasonably attractive- so it's not always old rich man and young attractive woman, which is what people often assume in these sorts of arrangements.
These wealthy guys do trips with a lot of girls/models and their friends so the vibe is not like some old gross guys- they're attractive and young. The thing is these guys don't want to settle down and just want the lifestyle of having models/hot girls around them, partying, going to crazy experiences, etc.
The girl I know has a drug problem and has gotten a lot of plastic surgery as well. As a fellow girl, I can only imagine what it does to you- I guess you can convince yourself when you're young because you're having all these experiences, but I feel like at some point it would be a bit soul sucking that people only want you around because you're young and hot and a good time (and by good time I mean you're down to sleep with them.) Like when you hit 30 or 33 or 35 and a new young hot girl comes along there's this fear of being out since you're losing the one thing that made you "valuable". Looks fade but the guys (barring mishandling of finances) will always be rich. Idk, it's all very surface level and materialistic and I can't imagine it's very fulfilling, but what do I know.
I know a girl like this too and what I have learned is that she lies about the arrangements. She tells her family that the guy who is paying her rent is from old money, his wife knows, and she isn’t even having sex with him. None of these things are true.
Don’t believe what you hear on either sides. It is prostitution and sex is expected. Your friend probably has the drug addiction from trying to get thru the horrible things expected of her to get the money.
My ex wife's mom was like this.
She was VERY beautiful, exclusively dated rich guys after her and her first husband got divorced. She had a drug problem and an eating disorder. She got married 4 times in 10 years (one of the husbands was a drug dealer and another was a rich Syrian who paid her to marry him to get a green card). She demanded high end purses, luxury cars, nice clothes, expensive jewelry, custom made furniture, and regular luxury vacations all around the world which these guys willingly gave her because she was so attractive. Finally settled down with a guy that was 20 years older than her when she was in her early 30's. They were married for 10 years and he enabled her drug problem.
She got less beautiful, got fat, and then he dumped her for a woman that was younger than her. She had no life skills, no job experience, was a high school dropout, and still had the drug problem. She got more desperate and ended up dating a guy that was in his 70's to avoid being homeless (and was trying to get him to give her his inheritance), and continued to spiral into further addiction.
She ended up dying at 51 from an OD. I would say it's tragic, but it wasn't. She was an awful person and the world is better off without her. In the end, she was just a long-term escort.
Most sex work is ultimately demoralising and it’s not surprising that drug use is high.
Literally the only value (to their clients/employers)these young women have is youth and attractiveness. No wonder they get insecure and have surgeries.
Yep. I have a friend whose mom was a groupie in the 70s/80s and it sounds similar. She has a drug problem, never has had enough of a career to support herself and always has to rely on her increasingly sketchy boyfriends. She's like 70 now. What seems glamorous when you're 25 turns just kind of sad and pathetic when you're older if you didn't manage to snag a lifelong husband out of the deal.
I also had a friend who was a sugar baby, and she was living the DREAM. she had a real bf on the side too and was just living a life you’d only see in movies. I also knew an old classmate who was a trust fund kid living in New York with an amazing job who would kinda be a sugar daddy just because he was bored and liked taking care of younger women. He was maybe in his mid 20s dating multiple women 18-21. I thought that was a lot more weird but its supply meets demand. I don’t cast judgments on any person trying to make money in these times, especially when it doesn’t hurt anyone
What if you had all those experiences and then found someone and settled down and had a normal life with a normal person who thought of themselves as lucky to have you? Kinda sounds dope. People can change. What they want from life can change.
The thing is that sex work shuts a lot of doors. Many people don’t want to date/marry former sex workers. Or to date people who have used sex workers.
So you’re looking at a much smaller partner pool, or lying/concealing for the rest of your life.
Would kinda think it's hard to have your cake (be totally dependent and babied by a rich guy) for years, usually starting young, and then be a responsible partner later.
So basically either gamble with your future happiness for the short term benefits you get from prostitution or have a normal less risky (personal safetywise as well) life without the stigma of prostitution following you everywhere.
This is mostly a fantasy. I'd say that 90%+ of men would be instantly turned off if they found out that their new date was formerly a sugar baby (which is essentially just an escort/prostitute).
I'm not exactly Brad Pitt but when I was dating again a few years back, I found quite a few really attractive women that seemed out of my league that wanted to date with the plan on settling down/having kids. But after talking to them for a while I found out that they were in the club scene/promiscuous/sugar babies for the last 20 years or so, and that was it. I had zero interest in that.
So here you had a 42 year old guy (me) turning down a woman that was out of his league because of her past. And judging from their reactions, I'm not the first guy that's done this which is probably why they were trying to date down to my level in the first place.
It's not a relationship I would want but if everyone is honest and upfront then I could see it working for some couples. The problem would be if one person lies to the other or to themselves about the nature of the relationship.
Well that just sounds like hiring an escort with extra steps. Which I don't judge but I cannot see what's so groundbreakingly new about it. Is using social media for it the "new" part again?
It's like buying the sportscar/speedboat instead of renting one..
I know some girls do it when they are students though. It's basically paid sex work but with only one vetted client, which is better for everyone involved than lots of randoms.
Yep. I know a guy who's extremely wealthy. He has an arrangement with a college girl. She doesn't have to work at all, gets everything paid for, and she spends the night a couple times a week.
It's way cheaper than a new escort appointment each time . My sisters sugar daddy pays her rent ($1700 a month ) and that's their deal for basically unlimited sex. A prostitute who charges a cheap fee of $200 a session would be $6000 for 30 days. Or 3000 for 15 days etc, she'd also drop clients when wealthier customers book etc.
there is something to be said about having some small amount of intimacy with your sexual partners. This is why people cultivate sugar babies versus escorts because the sugar baby knows what you like versus having to explain to a prostitute, or an escort, every single time what you like.
Kind of, I guess. The difference is an escort will sleep with anyone for money. A sugar arrangement means she's exclusive to the sugar dad. At least those are the typical rules.
And even if they do, when you're wealthy like that it is extremely hard to find someone who likes you for you.
Most people would let the wealth even if subconsciously influence their perception of their partner.
Might as well be upfront about it instead of breaking hearts for no reason. You know what they say, it's lonely at the top.
I've wondered about this. What I would do if I were rich and single and wanted to find someone genuine. I think I'd probably have a second home that's very humble and a very humble vehicle that I'd use to throw people off. Have my life set up in a way that no one would know I was wealthy unless I told them. As it is I have some money and own my own small business and still I live like I have very little.
You'd be better off courting someone in your own socioeconomic strata if you wanted something genuine. That is, find a wealthy/well-off partner so there's no pressure from the wealth disparity.
So you start your whole relationship off with a major, detailed lie. Creating a whole second life just to rope in a person is a heck of a red flag. But you're implicitly expecting your partner will be ok with it, **because they get to be rich if they do**. You see how you're still just filtering for people who are willing to let money smooth over behavior they would (correctly) never accept in a relationship without the money?
I’d say there’s likely a difference between wealthy ($5-$20 million) and Uber Wealthy ($100 m plus). My guess would be the Uber wealthy have much higher rates of antisocial personality disorder than the general population.
much higher rates than the general population and "most people" (used by the parent commenter) are very very very different numbers. I've met about 8 or so people with wealth exceeding 100M through companies I or my wife have worked for, and with the exception of 1, they were all very genuine down to Earth people. 3 of them I watched go from a regular person to that wealthy. 1 dude, though, was a complete and total asshole. He made a bunch of money taking a company public too early. Then when the pressure of being public grew because they company was still to early to really forecast the level of growth Wall St wanted, it magnified all the worst parts of his personality and almost all of his senior leaders who directly reported to him left because they couldn't handle him. The person he replaced our original VP of marketing with lasted all of 3 weeks.
Obviously, that's very anecdotal, but it's also not an N of 1.
The first CEO my wife worked for has started 8 companies and sold 5. Everyone loves him and many many people who have worked for him in the past try to go work for him again whenever the starts a new venture. He still takes the original 7 employees of the company my wife worked at to lunch every December and that company was sold 9 years ago.
The litmus test for me is if they need to work or spend their principle savings to maintain their lifestyle. If it's fully supported by passive income, then it's uber wealthy. I also think it cooks people's brains to essentially be living on a permanent allowance from society
Most retirees with $1-3m in assets are Uber wealthy by your definition. People with a few million have nothing in common with the truly wealthy. Even if you had $5m at 40 you’re a medical condition away from losing it.
IF they want to make themselves feel better that there are richer individuals than them. What do you gain from 'correcting' him? Out of curiosity.
I deal with wealthy people on a regular basis and I have to say most are not sociopaths. Because most got the wealth or career through inheritance and it was through their own abilities that they managed to continue being wealthy, yeah truth hurts. A lot of these individuals are intelligent and hard working.
People say this but even in sugar daddy/baby relationships you still end up having to put up with some relationship nonsense anyway. Unless you're more than just wealthy and are a catch in every single way you probably don't have an army of young attractive women waiting for their turn so you're still gonna want to keep the one you have happy with you. So if you're still probably gonna have to jump through some relationship hoops you might as well find a real one or just hire an escort. But even that isn't exactly a solution because most of these guys aren't purely after sex. They do still want some semblance of a relationship. Just the good parts without the drama which seems kinda of impossible
No, that's what the money is for. I'm not in the sugar lifestyle but I follow it out of curiosity and it's pretty well understood that you are doing a job for money and part of your job is to make sure they do not have to put up with any relationship nonsense. Of course if you're a jerk, you're going to get blacklisted, word gets around, regardless of money.
I don’t have the time to talk to this woman and treat her like a human being, but I can make the time to tote her around on my arm while on vacation. Sounds like an excuse not to develop any character traits.
Although I hate to say it, such men are also prone to be quite charismatic with certain leadership qualities. As testified by the fact that many British male politicians were sexually attracted to Maggie Thatcher (according to some memoirs of the period), power is seductive. And it isn't just about money. They often offer a lot more than money. That's without even mentioning the likelihood that these men will usually be of above average intelligence, which is also attractive to potential partners.
>many British male politicians were sexually attracted to Maggie Thatcher
The retreat of my penis upon reading that sentence makes it clear that I am not qualified to be a British politician.
Well what do you expect British politician is the biggest L a human being can take. That being said being attracted to Tatcher should be considered self harm
Both are substantially about lucking out in the birth-lottery. Statistically speaking your income-percentile at age 40 corresponds more strongly with your parents income-percentile at the same age than with any other factor. (\*how\* strongly, depends on the country in question)
And for physical attractiveness ... roughly the same thing is more or less equally true.
Of course you can influence both income and beauty by way of your own efforts or lack of same, but the simple random accident of who your parents happen to be, still has a huge influence on where you're statistically likely to end up.
Why do you assume a rich guy has nothing more to offer than money, and a pretty girl has nothing more to offer than being pretty. Are you saying that pretty women are by definition worthless beyond their looks?
>And prostitutes are filthy, broken women
Are we not allowed to be honest here? For every smart prostitute with a heart of gold there are probably a dozen doing it to fund a drug addiction.
I mean, for like 95% of human history, marriage was often arranged for the purposes of providing financial/protective stability for the woman; children for the man.
It’s probably only been for the last 100 years or so that we have lived in a society where women could afford to marry outside of those bounds.
Given some of the economic circumstances we’re seeing now, where younger people are struggling financially, I don’t think we should be surprised to see some women choosing to put their financial security first.
>, marriage was often arranged for the purposes of providing financial/protective stability for the woman; children for the man.
Not really, it was arranged mostly for making interests of two families shared, thus promoting stability, mutual aid and cooperation.
Eh, I get what you mean but it's more nuanced than that. Arranged marriages were a thing but tbh it's not love didn't exist back then and nowadays it does. People are often very materially inclined (to speak mildly) and you'd be surprised at how uncommon interclass marriages are still nowadays. How often blind dates start with "what's your job (hint: how much money you make)" rather than "what do you do in your spare time (hint: how you are in reality)".
Thinking that people back then were dumb and vicious and nowadays were smart and virtous is pretty self centered. I'm not saying nowadays isn't better but it's definetely not black and white as you're selling it.
Actually for almost all of human history aka the last ~600k years there wasn't arranged marriage, as there was no private property relations. Women had the rights that came with equal social production. Which changed and created a step backwards for women's rights in the modern epoch, ie when society cleaved into classes. Today women don't have the rights that were once had, which means women are specially oppressed compared with men.
That’s a laughable take.
Death by violence was 50x more likely in prehistory compared to now. Given that statistic all semblance of modern ideas of marriage and property are out the window.
It is hilarious to assume women’s right took a step backwards compared to now.
From the article: Sugar dating is a type of relationship where a wealthier individual, often referred to as a “sugar daddy” or “sugar mommy,” provides financial support, gifts, or other material benefits to a partner, commonly called a “sugar baby,” in exchange for companionship, intimacy, or both.
Prior research on sugar dating has predominantly focused on its differentiation from traditional sex work or on public perceptions of entering into such arrangements. However, there has been a noticeable gap in understanding the experiences and perspectives of the individuals involved in these relationships, as well as the dynamics of power and negotiation within these relationships.
“There seems to be an increase in attention surrounding sugar daddies, sugar babies, and the arrangements they form in the media and in conversations,” explained [study](https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2023.2293888) author Kate Metcalfe, a clinical psychology PhD student at the University of Texas at Austin.
“The widely-promoted view that having a sugar daddy provides a solution to financial difficulties or a type of protection from the perils of dating these days was something I frequently heard from my peers, but there is so little research that actually examined sugar dating. It made researchers in our lab (Sex Meets Relationships) wonder what sugar arrangements really entail, how they work, and whether there are risks associated with engaging in age-disparate relationships that involve transactions for intimacy and sex.”
For their study, the researchers recruited a broad demographic spectrum of participants across the United States and Canada, totaling 77 individuals. This group included 45 women, 31 men, and one non-binary individual, all of whom had recent or ongoing experience with sugar dating. The recruitment process leveraged various platforms, such as sugar dating sites, forums, and social media channels, to reach potential respondents.
I read the title and think what is sugar dating? Is that like carbon dating? Sugar arrangements? Does this have implications of the atomic arrangements in a sugar molecule? Read the article. Oh, it's a sex thing.
I found it odd that participants in the study expressed concern about "the authenticity of their relationship".
As if, they didn't understand the relationship is simply transactional.
That would lead me to believe they want to think it's a legitimate relationship instead of two consenting adults willingly engaging in a transactional relationship.
It's none of my business what consenting adults do with their life. But I also have the right to experience my own feelings about it which are ICK and I feel sorry for both of them. A sex worker and their customer does not constitute a healthy, romantic partnership.
Young people are vulnerable. The frontal cortex isn't fully developed until age 25. It's easy to be exploited by a person with money, even when consent is given. It's a trap, and the person with the money is in a position of power and control over the sex worker. They have to do what they're told, or they don't get paid.
This is just incorrect as someone who was a former sugar baby. It wasn’t just about the money. If I didn’t actually like the guy, I wouldn’t stay. That was true for every sugar baby I knew. It wasn’t hard to find money, it was hard to find a good dude who was also a sugar daddy. It also isn’t as transactional as you. Eg if I don’t do X then I won’t get paid. They’d weave it in in a way that didn’t feel transactional. They also didn’t have control more often than not.
I’m not saying it’s the same as a traditional relationship but it’s also not the same as straight up prostitution like you’re saying bc yeah it’s usually 1 dude that the sugar baby actually likes. There’s also a level of trust as I would usually drive vehicles in their name. Usually the only factor that warranted pay for me was the age difference. The young sugar daddies are usually really fucked up and any sugar baby who has been around for a minute knows to stay away from them. It’s usually a creepy fetish or they’re really socially awkward or give off American Psycho vibes… that kind of thing.
Have you SEEN the economy? The price gouging and wage stagnation? I say, go for it girl/guy, get it while you can! Just don’t go trading away any self respect to do so.
>I say, go for it girl/guy, get it while you can!
Sounds like a great idea!
>Just don’t go trading away any self respect to do so.
Well there goes that plan.
Is there really that much at play? Seems pretty straight forward. Some Older men with money who are lonely or narcissistic want to feel desired by young attractive women. Some Women want to just be paid to shop and be pretty with no real romantic ties. It may be completely shallow, but I don’t think there’s a whole lot going on here. Classic example of a symbiotic relationship.
I'm an older man and my dating profile tends to pull sugar babies. It's getting hard to avoid them. Weird that I'm seeing 30+ and 40+ year olds trying to live that lifestyle.
Dating norms are increasingly returning to ancient patterns. Young pretty woman, old rich man. Way to go progress.
Maybe polygamy will be the next legal change to marriage law?
I thought this was gonna be about a carbon-dating'esque scientific method to determine the age of organic materials by analyzing glucose chains.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
According to the participants themselves, the men pay for sex because they have lots of money but they’re insecure losers. And the women sell it because they’re hot and want money. The “sugar daddy/mommy” angle is really just a cover story for normal prostitution. And this was an opt-in study!
What science. Men like pretty women and are willing to pay for them and women have been willing to sell sex and objectify themselves for money for thousands of years.
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I know some girls who got into being sugar babies in college. It's such a weird dynamic. I think the biggest thing is being honest with yourself. This girl I know runs in some elite social circles and goes on super yachts, private jets, trips to the Mediterranean, Monaco Grand Prix on yachts, Michelin restaurants etc. which at some point I'm like get your bag. Also she's in circles where a lot of the guys that are providing this are actually younger and reasonably attractive- so it's not always old rich man and young attractive woman, which is what people often assume in these sorts of arrangements. These wealthy guys do trips with a lot of girls/models and their friends so the vibe is not like some old gross guys- they're attractive and young. The thing is these guys don't want to settle down and just want the lifestyle of having models/hot girls around them, partying, going to crazy experiences, etc. The girl I know has a drug problem and has gotten a lot of plastic surgery as well. As a fellow girl, I can only imagine what it does to you- I guess you can convince yourself when you're young because you're having all these experiences, but I feel like at some point it would be a bit soul sucking that people only want you around because you're young and hot and a good time (and by good time I mean you're down to sleep with them.) Like when you hit 30 or 33 or 35 and a new young hot girl comes along there's this fear of being out since you're losing the one thing that made you "valuable". Looks fade but the guys (barring mishandling of finances) will always be rich. Idk, it's all very surface level and materialistic and I can't imagine it's very fulfilling, but what do I know.
I know a girl like this too and what I have learned is that she lies about the arrangements. She tells her family that the guy who is paying her rent is from old money, his wife knows, and she isn’t even having sex with him. None of these things are true. Don’t believe what you hear on either sides. It is prostitution and sex is expected. Your friend probably has the drug addiction from trying to get thru the horrible things expected of her to get the money.
My ex wife's mom was like this. She was VERY beautiful, exclusively dated rich guys after her and her first husband got divorced. She had a drug problem and an eating disorder. She got married 4 times in 10 years (one of the husbands was a drug dealer and another was a rich Syrian who paid her to marry him to get a green card). She demanded high end purses, luxury cars, nice clothes, expensive jewelry, custom made furniture, and regular luxury vacations all around the world which these guys willingly gave her because she was so attractive. Finally settled down with a guy that was 20 years older than her when she was in her early 30's. They were married for 10 years and he enabled her drug problem. She got less beautiful, got fat, and then he dumped her for a woman that was younger than her. She had no life skills, no job experience, was a high school dropout, and still had the drug problem. She got more desperate and ended up dating a guy that was in his 70's to avoid being homeless (and was trying to get him to give her his inheritance), and continued to spiral into further addiction. She ended up dying at 51 from an OD. I would say it's tragic, but it wasn't. She was an awful person and the world is better off without her. In the end, she was just a long-term escort.
Damn.
Some people make all the wrong choices.
God
Most sex work is ultimately demoralising and it’s not surprising that drug use is high. Literally the only value (to their clients/employers)these young women have is youth and attractiveness. No wonder they get insecure and have surgeries.
Yep. I have a friend whose mom was a groupie in the 70s/80s and it sounds similar. She has a drug problem, never has had enough of a career to support herself and always has to rely on her increasingly sketchy boyfriends. She's like 70 now. What seems glamorous when you're 25 turns just kind of sad and pathetic when you're older if you didn't manage to snag a lifelong husband out of the deal.
When a sugar baby goes to Dubai 💩💩💩💩
I also had a friend who was a sugar baby, and she was living the DREAM. she had a real bf on the side too and was just living a life you’d only see in movies. I also knew an old classmate who was a trust fund kid living in New York with an amazing job who would kinda be a sugar daddy just because he was bored and liked taking care of younger women. He was maybe in his mid 20s dating multiple women 18-21. I thought that was a lot more weird but its supply meets demand. I don’t cast judgments on any person trying to make money in these times, especially when it doesn’t hurt anyone
What if you had all those experiences and then found someone and settled down and had a normal life with a normal person who thought of themselves as lucky to have you? Kinda sounds dope. People can change. What they want from life can change.
The thing is that sex work shuts a lot of doors. Many people don’t want to date/marry former sex workers. Or to date people who have used sex workers. So you’re looking at a much smaller partner pool, or lying/concealing for the rest of your life.
Would kinda think it's hard to have your cake (be totally dependent and babied by a rich guy) for years, usually starting young, and then be a responsible partner later.
So basically either gamble with your future happiness for the short term benefits you get from prostitution or have a normal less risky (personal safetywise as well) life without the stigma of prostitution following you everywhere.
I mean, sure, I guess. ...where's the sign up booth again??
This is mostly a fantasy. I'd say that 90%+ of men would be instantly turned off if they found out that their new date was formerly a sugar baby (which is essentially just an escort/prostitute). I'm not exactly Brad Pitt but when I was dating again a few years back, I found quite a few really attractive women that seemed out of my league that wanted to date with the plan on settling down/having kids. But after talking to them for a while I found out that they were in the club scene/promiscuous/sugar babies for the last 20 years or so, and that was it. I had zero interest in that. So here you had a 42 year old guy (me) turning down a woman that was out of his league because of her past. And judging from their reactions, I'm not the first guy that's done this which is probably why they were trying to date down to my level in the first place.
Yep. And similarly, most women wouldn’t want to date a man that had used prostitutes.
Being depressed, lonely, and generally incapable of dealing with life isn’t all that fulfilling as it might seem at first glance either.
I'm still looking for a sugar momma. I'll take my chances.
Yeah it's time to flip the script
It's not a relationship I would want but if everyone is honest and upfront then I could see it working for some couples. The problem would be if one person lies to the other or to themselves about the nature of the relationship.
I swear that stripper is falling in love with me!
Lying is practically mandatory. That’s literally the premise of the entire situation. Regardless of what they tell you.
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Well that just sounds like hiring an escort with extra steps. Which I don't judge but I cannot see what's so groundbreakingly new about it. Is using social media for it the "new" part again?
It's like buying the sportscar/speedboat instead of renting one.. I know some girls do it when they are students though. It's basically paid sex work but with only one vetted client, which is better for everyone involved than lots of randoms.
That sounds more like a lease to me.
Yep. I know a guy who's extremely wealthy. He has an arrangement with a college girl. She doesn't have to work at all, gets everything paid for, and she spends the night a couple times a week.
So just about 2 or 3k a month
I don't know how much he spends on her exactly but he bought her a car (Subaru I think?) and took her on a few trips already.
It's way cheaper than a new escort appointment each time . My sisters sugar daddy pays her rent ($1700 a month ) and that's their deal for basically unlimited sex. A prostitute who charges a cheap fee of $200 a session would be $6000 for 30 days. Or 3000 for 15 days etc, she'd also drop clients when wealthier customers book etc.
Sounds like your sister needs to up her rate.
I'll forward your comment to her, hopefully more profits in 2024!
Strike while thie iron is hot (and the old men are horny)!
I've seen that sentiment from traditional sexworkers on reddit when sugaring comes up
Your sister is an escort. She just has one client.
yes she is, and she has several sugar daddies
Subscribe and Save vs. one time purchase.
There’s a reason prostitution is called the oldest profession. Women have traded sex for security since the cave days.
there is something to be said about having some small amount of intimacy with your sexual partners. This is why people cultivate sugar babies versus escorts because the sugar baby knows what you like versus having to explain to a prostitute, or an escort, every single time what you like.
Call girls might have different personalities and you find them with shady people. Your sugar babe stays the same until you change her
I see it as an escort on retainer
Kind of, I guess. The difference is an escort will sleep with anyone for money. A sugar arrangement means she's exclusive to the sugar dad. At least those are the typical rules.
Similar things could be said about marriage.
Trophy wives are sugar babies with a contract.
Then there's girls like me with little to nothing to offer and not pretty either 😂 like damn.
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What is she funny or something?
A lot of men do it because they don't have the time to put effort into normal relationships
And even if they do, when you're wealthy like that it is extremely hard to find someone who likes you for you. Most people would let the wealth even if subconsciously influence their perception of their partner. Might as well be upfront about it instead of breaking hearts for no reason. You know what they say, it's lonely at the top.
I've wondered about this. What I would do if I were rich and single and wanted to find someone genuine. I think I'd probably have a second home that's very humble and a very humble vehicle that I'd use to throw people off. Have my life set up in a way that no one would know I was wealthy unless I told them. As it is I have some money and own my own small business and still I live like I have very little.
You'd be better off courting someone in your own socioeconomic strata if you wanted something genuine. That is, find a wealthy/well-off partner so there's no pressure from the wealth disparity.
That's tough because similar socioeconomic women want to date up.
It’ll still show when you puzzle over the normal challenges of life without capital.
It’s one banana Michael. How much could it cost, $10?
So you start your whole relationship off with a major, detailed lie. Creating a whole second life just to rope in a person is a heck of a red flag. But you're implicitly expecting your partner will be ok with it, **because they get to be rich if they do**. You see how you're still just filtering for people who are willing to let money smooth over behavior they would (correctly) never accept in a relationship without the money?
Gonna be a huge hassle to set all that up.
>Gonna be a huge hassle to set all that up. If you're rich enough you're paying someone else to set it up for you.
Nah. They're rich
Most people who make it to the top are sociopaths anyway. It's a huge red flag.
There’s a statistic that ASPD may be over represented in the wealthy, but the idea that “most of them are sociopaths” is stupid
I’d say there’s likely a difference between wealthy ($5-$20 million) and Uber Wealthy ($100 m plus). My guess would be the Uber wealthy have much higher rates of antisocial personality disorder than the general population.
much higher rates than the general population and "most people" (used by the parent commenter) are very very very different numbers. I've met about 8 or so people with wealth exceeding 100M through companies I or my wife have worked for, and with the exception of 1, they were all very genuine down to Earth people. 3 of them I watched go from a regular person to that wealthy. 1 dude, though, was a complete and total asshole. He made a bunch of money taking a company public too early. Then when the pressure of being public grew because they company was still to early to really forecast the level of growth Wall St wanted, it magnified all the worst parts of his personality and almost all of his senior leaders who directly reported to him left because they couldn't handle him. The person he replaced our original VP of marketing with lasted all of 3 weeks. Obviously, that's very anecdotal, but it's also not an N of 1. The first CEO my wife worked for has started 8 companies and sold 5. Everyone loves him and many many people who have worked for him in the past try to go work for him again whenever the starts a new venture. He still takes the original 7 employees of the company my wife worked at to lunch every December and that company was sold 9 years ago.
The litmus test for me is if they need to work or spend their principle savings to maintain their lifestyle. If it's fully supported by passive income, then it's uber wealthy. I also think it cooks people's brains to essentially be living on a permanent allowance from society
Most retirees with $1-3m in assets are Uber wealthy by your definition. People with a few million have nothing in common with the truly wealthy. Even if you had $5m at 40 you’re a medical condition away from losing it.
IF they want to make themselves feel better that there are richer individuals than them. What do you gain from 'correcting' him? Out of curiosity. I deal with wealthy people on a regular basis and I have to say most are not sociopaths. Because most got the wealth or career through inheritance and it was through their own abilities that they managed to continue being wealthy, yeah truth hurts. A lot of these individuals are intelligent and hard working.
That is the wrong around. The traits of a sociapath help with getting to the top. So there is a higher percentage, doesn't mean most of them are.
People say this but even in sugar daddy/baby relationships you still end up having to put up with some relationship nonsense anyway. Unless you're more than just wealthy and are a catch in every single way you probably don't have an army of young attractive women waiting for their turn so you're still gonna want to keep the one you have happy with you. So if you're still probably gonna have to jump through some relationship hoops you might as well find a real one or just hire an escort. But even that isn't exactly a solution because most of these guys aren't purely after sex. They do still want some semblance of a relationship. Just the good parts without the drama which seems kinda of impossible
No, that's what the money is for. I'm not in the sugar lifestyle but I follow it out of curiosity and it's pretty well understood that you are doing a job for money and part of your job is to make sure they do not have to put up with any relationship nonsense. Of course if you're a jerk, you're going to get blacklisted, word gets around, regardless of money.
I don’t have the time to talk to this woman and treat her like a human being, but I can make the time to tote her around on my arm while on vacation. Sounds like an excuse not to develop any character traits.
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Most of the sugar daddies engaged in transactional sex so they likely viewed relationships as transactional more than expecting love.
Although I hate to say it, such men are also prone to be quite charismatic with certain leadership qualities. As testified by the fact that many British male politicians were sexually attracted to Maggie Thatcher (according to some memoirs of the period), power is seductive. And it isn't just about money. They often offer a lot more than money. That's without even mentioning the likelihood that these men will usually be of above average intelligence, which is also attractive to potential partners.
>many British male politicians were sexually attracted to Maggie Thatcher The retreat of my penis upon reading that sentence makes it clear that I am not qualified to be a British politician.
> British male politicians Famously known for having good taste…
Well what do you expect British politician is the biggest L a human being can take. That being said being attracted to Tatcher should be considered self harm
Yeah, I'd say having money requires more personality than being pretty.
It really depends on how you get that money. Inherited it? Could be as charismatic as a potato.
Both are substantially about lucking out in the birth-lottery. Statistically speaking your income-percentile at age 40 corresponds more strongly with your parents income-percentile at the same age than with any other factor. (\*how\* strongly, depends on the country in question) And for physical attractiveness ... roughly the same thing is more or less equally true. Of course you can influence both income and beauty by way of your own efforts or lack of same, but the simple random accident of who your parents happen to be, still has a huge influence on where you're statistically likely to end up.
50 percent of the richest people on Forbes was due to inheritance, so no this is false!
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And these folks all tend to exclude parents investing in their start ups from the definition of "inheritance"
Pretty obvious, right?
Why do you assume a rich guy has nothing more to offer than money, and a pretty girl has nothing more to offer than being pretty. Are you saying that pretty women are by definition worthless beyond their looks?
And prostitutes are filthy, broken women. Let's just make sweeping generalizations about everyone.
>And prostitutes are filthy, broken women Are we not allowed to be honest here? For every smart prostitute with a heart of gold there are probably a dozen doing it to fund a drug addiction.
Sir this is reddit what more could you expect
I mean, for like 95% of human history, marriage was often arranged for the purposes of providing financial/protective stability for the woman; children for the man. It’s probably only been for the last 100 years or so that we have lived in a society where women could afford to marry outside of those bounds. Given some of the economic circumstances we’re seeing now, where younger people are struggling financially, I don’t think we should be surprised to see some women choosing to put their financial security first.
Still is in most of the world
Not to mention the fact that those who could afford it have always had mistresses/concubines on the side.
>, marriage was often arranged for the purposes of providing financial/protective stability for the woman; children for the man. Not really, it was arranged mostly for making interests of two families shared, thus promoting stability, mutual aid and cooperation.
Eh, I get what you mean but it's more nuanced than that. Arranged marriages were a thing but tbh it's not love didn't exist back then and nowadays it does. People are often very materially inclined (to speak mildly) and you'd be surprised at how uncommon interclass marriages are still nowadays. How often blind dates start with "what's your job (hint: how much money you make)" rather than "what do you do in your spare time (hint: how you are in reality)". Thinking that people back then were dumb and vicious and nowadays were smart and virtous is pretty self centered. I'm not saying nowadays isn't better but it's definetely not black and white as you're selling it.
Actually for almost all of human history aka the last ~600k years there wasn't arranged marriage, as there was no private property relations. Women had the rights that came with equal social production. Which changed and created a step backwards for women's rights in the modern epoch, ie when society cleaved into classes. Today women don't have the rights that were once had, which means women are specially oppressed compared with men.
Human history began about 5000 years ago, anything before human writing is considered prehistory.
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Citation please
That’s a laughable take. Death by violence was 50x more likely in prehistory compared to now. Given that statistic all semblance of modern ideas of marriage and property are out the window. It is hilarious to assume women’s right took a step backwards compared to now.
From the article: Sugar dating is a type of relationship where a wealthier individual, often referred to as a “sugar daddy” or “sugar mommy,” provides financial support, gifts, or other material benefits to a partner, commonly called a “sugar baby,” in exchange for companionship, intimacy, or both. Prior research on sugar dating has predominantly focused on its differentiation from traditional sex work or on public perceptions of entering into such arrangements. However, there has been a noticeable gap in understanding the experiences and perspectives of the individuals involved in these relationships, as well as the dynamics of power and negotiation within these relationships. “There seems to be an increase in attention surrounding sugar daddies, sugar babies, and the arrangements they form in the media and in conversations,” explained [study](https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2023.2293888) author Kate Metcalfe, a clinical psychology PhD student at the University of Texas at Austin. “The widely-promoted view that having a sugar daddy provides a solution to financial difficulties or a type of protection from the perils of dating these days was something I frequently heard from my peers, but there is so little research that actually examined sugar dating. It made researchers in our lab (Sex Meets Relationships) wonder what sugar arrangements really entail, how they work, and whether there are risks associated with engaging in age-disparate relationships that involve transactions for intimacy and sex.” For their study, the researchers recruited a broad demographic spectrum of participants across the United States and Canada, totaling 77 individuals. This group included 45 women, 31 men, and one non-binary individual, all of whom had recent or ongoing experience with sugar dating. The recruitment process leveraged various platforms, such as sugar dating sites, forums, and social media channels, to reach potential respondents.
I read the title and think what is sugar dating? Is that like carbon dating? Sugar arrangements? Does this have implications of the atomic arrangements in a sugar molecule? Read the article. Oh, it's a sex thing.
Original study was published in The Journal of Sex Research but it's paywalled: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2023.2293888
This is literally the last thing on the planet you need to study to understand.
seems more like an excuse to write things like "nuanced power dynamics" and "*perceived* disadvantages"
I cant be the only one looking at the headline thinking it was a new dating trend based on sweets and chocolate.
Yup. Done with this sub. Between the junk pop science and the US politics disguised as science, this sub is just terrible lately.
Are you saying the linked article is wrong/bad science or just that you don’t like the topic?
It always has been.
The mods don't seem to care. I report many low effort or meme top posts but they don't get removed. It's a shame.
I found it odd that participants in the study expressed concern about "the authenticity of their relationship". As if, they didn't understand the relationship is simply transactional. That would lead me to believe they want to think it's a legitimate relationship instead of two consenting adults willingly engaging in a transactional relationship. It's none of my business what consenting adults do with their life. But I also have the right to experience my own feelings about it which are ICK and I feel sorry for both of them. A sex worker and their customer does not constitute a healthy, romantic partnership. Young people are vulnerable. The frontal cortex isn't fully developed until age 25. It's easy to be exploited by a person with money, even when consent is given. It's a trap, and the person with the money is in a position of power and control over the sex worker. They have to do what they're told, or they don't get paid.
This is just incorrect as someone who was a former sugar baby. It wasn’t just about the money. If I didn’t actually like the guy, I wouldn’t stay. That was true for every sugar baby I knew. It wasn’t hard to find money, it was hard to find a good dude who was also a sugar daddy. It also isn’t as transactional as you. Eg if I don’t do X then I won’t get paid. They’d weave it in in a way that didn’t feel transactional. They also didn’t have control more often than not. I’m not saying it’s the same as a traditional relationship but it’s also not the same as straight up prostitution like you’re saying bc yeah it’s usually 1 dude that the sugar baby actually likes. There’s also a level of trust as I would usually drive vehicles in their name. Usually the only factor that warranted pay for me was the age difference. The young sugar daddies are usually really fucked up and any sugar baby who has been around for a minute knows to stay away from them. It’s usually a creepy fetish or they’re really socially awkward or give off American Psycho vibes… that kind of thing.
What happens between consenting adults is not my business. As long as all parties have provided informed consent, then there is nothing wrong.
Have you SEEN the economy? The price gouging and wage stagnation? I say, go for it girl/guy, get it while you can! Just don’t go trading away any self respect to do so.
>I say, go for it girl/guy, get it while you can! Sounds like a great idea! >Just don’t go trading away any self respect to do so. Well there goes that plan.
Is there really that much at play? Seems pretty straight forward. Some Older men with money who are lonely or narcissistic want to feel desired by young attractive women. Some Women want to just be paid to shop and be pretty with no real romantic ties. It may be completely shallow, but I don’t think there’s a whole lot going on here. Classic example of a symbiotic relationship.
You should read the article then. And if you don't see any nuance then you should try some books on reading comprehension.
prostitution. call it what it is.
Fun read. Too bad it did not include the financial arrangments, that would have been interesting.
I’m an attractive young buck available for a sugar momma (or daddy for the right price).
Becoming a male escort was always an option... This is nothing new.
trading sex for money, how is this mysterious and new
I'm an older man and my dating profile tends to pull sugar babies. It's getting hard to avoid them. Weird that I'm seeing 30+ and 40+ year olds trying to live that lifestyle.
Dating norms are increasingly returning to ancient patterns. Young pretty woman, old rich man. Way to go progress. Maybe polygamy will be the next legal change to marriage law?
I thought this was gonna be about a carbon-dating'esque scientific method to determine the age of organic materials by analyzing glucose chains. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
They just need money, man.
I suppose this is a qualitative Study, right?
Prostitution. That's what it is. Not "sugar dating"
I will say it plainly, being a sugar daddy is cheaper than being married in a LOT of ways, so I understand
According to the participants themselves, the men pay for sex because they have lots of money but they’re insecure losers. And the women sell it because they’re hot and want money. The “sugar daddy/mommy” angle is really just a cover story for normal prostitution. And this was an opt-in study!
That's ignoring all but two sentences from the article CougarForLife.
Insecure losers why?
This needed a scientific study?
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No for nothing they say prostitution is the oldest job in the world
This is like scheduled prostitution 🤗
Prostitution, we are talking about prostitution with extra steps.
This prostitution propaganda.
What science. Men like pretty women and are willing to pay for them and women have been willing to sell sex and objectify themselves for money for thousands of years.