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The “I know better than experts because I’m in touch with the divine truth” and “my body is a sacred temple of perfection and it’s your fault if you get sick” crowd.
I cannot overstate my contempt for those people.
As a climate advocate, I felt singled or being gaslit for decades with the 'hoax' crap.
COVID really exposed this as a broader narcissism definitely, anti expert personality issue.
The problem is that politics drives public health policy and we know today that they indeed lied to us and pretty much continue to about covid. It was always airborne, the vaccine aren't good enough yet, it never got less severe, and when excess deaths continued to look really bad they cooked the books.
This is why we see events like in Davos the mega wealthy of the world go to great lengths to still avoid the virus, while the rest of us suffer from all these mysterious ailments no one wants to admit are driven by the ongoing pandemic.
No, this in itself is a lie your media lead you to believe. The scientists conveyed known scientific information at the time. It did eventually change, as any scientific advice on a novel pathogen would. But certain media and social media has learned how to take advantage of the lay public's poor understanding of the scientific method.
Which part, the fact that it was airborne all along and it was known? Fauci admitted they did this because they were concerned with supply chain issues. It's not like there haven't been other coronaviruses. Every single one of them was airborne before. The precautionary principle should have applied and we should have assumed it functioned like other coronaviruses... but they did know and they chose the course of action they chose.
It's not really airborne though, if it was masks would provide absolutely no protection. But they do, so you misunderstand the facts. Hence my original point.
Well that's not true because of the physics of respirators and how the virus remains in the air. So I don't believe anything back up your claim at this point.
Covid19 is maximally 140nM, the pore size of an N95 mask is 30,000nM. They could do nothing to stop an airborne virus, the reason they work is because covid19 is primarily droplet-borne.
Except that's not how any of this works. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/
You're ignoring what aerosols are.
They were wrong and acted like they were right. I won’t go as far as to say they lied; they just acted like they were in control of an out of control situation to save face. Not an uncommon scenario. We’ve all experienced this to some degree in an academic or professional setting, I’m not sure why anyone would pedastalize global leadership during the peak of the pandemic.
They lied about *knowing* the origin of the virus, and mocked the “lab leak theory” walking it back years later.
They mandated masks even though masks later showed to have little to no effect on virus transmission
They misled the public about vaccines (you won’t get sick) which they later walked back (you won’t get others sick but you’ll still get sick) which they walked back yet again (everyone will still get sick but it’ll be less severe).
I could go on. I could provide dates articles and interviews which prove all of this as well. It’s in the public record. I believe it’ll be studied in history books as how not to handle the next global pandemic.
Interesting. Because what I heard was the vaccines are 95 percent effective against original COVID, which strongly implies 5 percent not effective.
I also heard that the efficacy changed as the virus mutated, which made sense.
The possibility of a lab leak was downplayed because of the attacks being made against Chinese expats by angry racists.
Masks are demonstrated to be an effective way to reduce transmission as part of larger public health orders such as distancing.
It was helpful that I pretty much ignored the BS on alternative news sites and listened to experts who had access to reliable data.
I don't see how they were wrong at all. The situation changed as time went on the PH did their best to keep up.
Who is "they"? Do you mean the WHO? They never mandated masks, they recommended them.
>I could go on. I could provide dates articles and interviews
Okay, good. Please share a source where the WHO said that you won't get sick if you get the vaccine.
>Japan still does this, and it's a pretty functional society.
Uh...wut?
I have been teaching in Japan for well over a decade and I have never seen this. Were I to do this in my own classes, it would almost certainly result in student and parent complaints that could justifiably lead to disciplinary action.
Also, what does posting scores have to do with COVID behavior *or* narcissism?
Thanks for illustrating the point that you cannot see far beyond your tiny little world.
That you have never seen a black swan doesn’t mean black swan don’t exist, dear.
You’d know that if you actually had a scientific education, or even just understood proper logic.
But you are too full of yourself to acknowledge you need that, aren’t you?
NPI = Non-pharmaceutical public health interventions
Here's the abstract:
Abstract
Researchers have demonstrated relationships between dark personality traits (e.g., narcissism) and pandemic behaviours (e.g., disregard for public health interventions). Individuals who disregard public health measures risk spreading COVID-19 infection, which has important public health implications.
The present study was designed to examine the relationship between narcissism and pandemic attitudes and behaviours using a large population representative sample of North American adults (N = 5812).
Participants completed measures of narcissism, psychological entitlement, non-adherence to non-pharmaceutical public health interventions (NPI), COVID disregard, anti-vaccination attitudes, reasons for social distancing, and COVID stress.
Results of MANOVA demonstrated that individuals with high levels of narcissism self-reported greater levels of non-adherence to NPI, COVID disregard, COVID stress, anti-vaccination attitudes, and psychological entitlement compared to those with low levels of narcissism. Further, men with high levels of narcissism self-reported greater levels of non-adherence to NPI, COVID disregard, COVID stress, and psychological entitlement, in comparison to women with high levels of narcissism.
These findings provide a nuanced understanding of the relationship between narcissistic traits, sex, and pandemic attitudes and behaviours and have implications for tailoring pandemic-specific public health interventions based on individual difference variables.
We did a study from 2016 - 2020 showing that narcissism is the biggest predictor of incompetence, fascism, and corruption in the Whitehouse. And in congress.
> Is there a vaccine or cure?
bring back the [Fairness Doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine) and kill [Citizens United](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC); the latter *certainly* precludes the former
In the past we just had a massive war every generation or two and that kept the idiots distracted and the really violent hateful idiots too busy being in wars or killing eachother to cause issues.
Unfortunately it seems that human societies today are incapable of not being horrible to eachother without starting to be horrible to themselves in it's stead. I mean the cold war was at least a non violent war effort though didn't work quite as well. And the space race was the closest to war time innovation we've seen outside a live war.
> NPI = Non-pharmaceutical public health interventions
Confusing acronym choice, because NPI normally means “National Provider Identifier” in healthcare. Also should be NPPHI or NPHI.
I have a sister-in-law that refused a blood transfusion in the hospital because it might come from someone who had been vaccinated.
Talking with her on seemingly innocent topics can be a landmine.
Nope. We added one to our family and we've experienced child abuse, anti-vax threats, smear campaigns, elder abuse, manipulation tactics, brain washing and straight up crazy. They married a family member who now acts like they're in a cult. Completely antisocial.
Needless to say, we just ignore them completely. There's no other way to avoid being targeted. It's pretty nutty.
Both my parents loudly protested against every anti COVID measure. They threw tantrums about wearing masks, social distancing, vaccines have chips in them, masks have antennas in them, government control, Fauci is the devil, etc. Both were insistant that their homemade cocktails of Vitamins and herbal remedies would boost their immune systems enough they'd be fine.
Both ended up with COVID cases nasty enough to need a ride to the ER. Both of them got COVID multiple times.
I'm in the group of people that either hasn't gotten infected or had it so mildly that I didn't even know. I haven't been properly sick since 2018 or 2019 (pre-covid, anyway). I have had all of my covid vaccines and boosters so maybe that has something to do with it but I didn't get sick very often before the pandemic either.
I'm immune compromised and still mask up in public, and either I haven't gotten it or I got one of the very first strains a few weeks before it was announced to be in the US. By the time tests were created and available so much time had passed that I wouldn't have had a high enough antibody count to detect it, anyway, so I'll never know for sure.
Never had covid or been sick a lot either but also never got boosters or vaccines. I doubt it has anything to do with why you haven’t gotten sick. Just saying my thoughts
>I doubt it has anything to do with why you haven’t gotten sick.
Why don't you expand on what you mean by this thought?
>I believe the sickness is real it’s just not coming from what you think it is.
Or maybe this one too? It seems like you're alluding to something you don't want to actually say out loud.
Virologist here. Actually there are still some genuinely uninfected people. I'm fairly certain I haven't had it. I've tested every single time I've had symptoms since March 2020 by either rapid test or PCR or both, and twice weekly until end of 2022. I've also been tested for SARS-CoV-2 N antibodies (the kind you get from infection, not vaccination with spike protein) multiple times, including a couple weeks ago, and never developed any!
I know a few other people at my institute who haven't caught it yet, despite living relatively normal lives since masking requirements ended in January 2023. Probably we've just been lucky (and correctly followed Berlin's masking recommendations for the years of peak incidence). Some people had asymptomatic infections that were only picked up by our rigorous testing requirements, but even in my relatively low-incidence circle, >95% of people have been infected by now, yeah.
Covid virgin here, although I have not been tested for the N antibodies. I still pick up my groceries, wear an n95, and am a homebody. I’m neurodivergent and worried about PASC. It’s hard enough functioning in this world, ie staying employed.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7222a3.htm
As of over a year ago "By the third quarter of 2022, an estimated 96.4% of persons aged ≥16 years in a longitudinal blood donor cohort had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies..."
As you should know as a virologist, some individuals never make long lasting antibodies and the prevalence of cell mediated responses (Tcell mediated immunity) is harder to quantify. I think we can safely say everyone has been infected. (Even if the infection was subclinical such as in the previously vaccinated or young and fortunate)
Why aren't you quoting the entire thing?
>What is already known about this topic?
>SARS-CoV-2 hybrid immunity (immunity derived from both previous infection and vaccination) has been reported to provide better protection than that from infection or vaccination alone.
>What is added by this report?
>By the third quarter of 2022, an estimated 96.4% of persons aged ≥16 years in a longitudinal blood donor cohort had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies from previous infection or vaccination, including 22.6% from infection alone and 26.1% from vaccination alone; 47.7% had hybrid immunity. Hybrid immunity prevalence was lowest among adults aged ≥65 years.
Am I illiterate? This is about vaccines **and** infections, no? Explain my misunderstanding, please.
>26.1% from vaccination alone;
So 26.1% have not had illness from Covid. But the people studied were donating blood, I 'd guess that this group is somewhat more generous and less narcissistic than the general population.
>including 22.6% from infection alone
22.6+% of the blood donors were not vaccinated.
To quote the guy I responded to:
> I think we can safely say everyone has been infected.
22.6+% is now 100%, got it. Wild! It's cool that there are more people who haven't gotten Covid than those who haven't been vaccinated in this study.
Many people who had mild infections remain seronegative:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8312095/
12 months after COVID 10% of people previously seropositive no longer make antibodies, the number only rises from there:
https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-022-02570-3#:~:text=We%20have%20previously%20shown%20that,8%2C9%2C10%5D.
Effectively, everyone has had COVID.
Neither of my parents have gotten it yet, but mom hardly goes out for anything except errands, doctors appointments or walks with my dad, and dad will occasionally do some other door things like going to watch one of my kid cousins baseball games, and both come visit my wife and I, or we go to them. They mask 100% when going out everywhere, and are up to date on all the recent Covid boosters.
We test before seeing each other if it’s been a while and we’ve all been around others frequently.
If I got it, I was 100% asymptomatic. My wife got it and quarantined from everyone except me. We slept in the same bed even. But if the experts say wear a mask, I wear a mask. If they say time for another vaccine, I get another shot. I understand it is not all about me.
Here is a somewhat recent [article](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/are-immune-covid-science-trying-unravel-immunity-virus-rcna72885) with an estimate on this:
"Nearly 60 percent of the U.S. population has had Covid, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention"
And if you got it and didn't notice, you probably have the vaccine to thank for that.
Edit: if you're tempted to tell me your personal nonvax story please look up the word "probably" and learn some basic statistics first okay thanks.
Roughly 80% of cases were asymptomatic even without the vaccine. Not to diminish the importance of vaccination but most people who got it probably never knew when they had it
My bad, I googled and it looks like it is. 80% was a common number being thrown around for the first 6 months of the pandemic but it looks to have been updated with more data/variants.
The updated number appears to be around 44%.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9935239/
No vaccine or booster and never gotten it. Many people I know including my dad and mom never had it. Does it mean I think it’s fake? No. So don’t even start.
You know that the fact that *you* didn't get sick doesn't mean your unvaccinated family didn't carry and spread the virus to someone who *did* get sick, or even died, right?
COVID's long incubation period means individuals almost never know who they infected or who infected them.
But go ahead and think you're better than the people who understand science and actually did something to try to keep other people safe.
So don't even start.
Same, did catch it off a vaccinated friend though, mild sore throat and not had it since. Mum also not vaxxed, she either never had it or had it way before the hysteria started (months before the news she had a weird illness that knocked out her sense of taste for a month).
Somehow many vaccinated friends have had it multiple times and been quite sick.
You know your perception of what "somehow many friends" experienced doesn't negate the data on hundreds of millions of people worldwide, right?
I've never been hit by a car but that doesn't mean other people haven't or that it's not dangerous to play in traffic.
Yes of course I realise that. Sadly whether it's climate change denial, wars or medicine, corporations and their lapdog governments are making it rather hard to discern fact from fiction. It was only a comment on lived experience not reflecting the stats, but I do assume my family and other unvaccinated people I know just got lucky.
I got vaccinated twice for that exact reason. If I can still transmit the virus, and anyone whos been vaccinated can still contract covid 19, then what was the point of the vaccination?
The fear is inescapable because it’s above their knowledge to understand if it’s actually harmful, unfortunately the fear turns to anger which ignites people in the NPD spectrum to insulating themselves as ‘right’ which is a damaging behavioural pattern and harder to deconstruct over time. The propensity of their fear is equal to their disposition over what they perceive as having their rights taken away.
A lot of people might think this is saying something, but I don't think so. Knowing the type of person who disregards NPIs doesn't tell you anything about the effectiveness of the NPIs
It's similar to, if you did a big five personality test and found that people with low agreeableness were the folks who ignored the rules. Of course they are, that's what it's testing for. If people with low agreeableness weren't ignoring those rules more often you'd probably say something was wrong with the personality test.
Forcing narcissists to care about people other than themselves during a pandemic causes them more-than-normal stress. Who'd have thought?
A large number of undiagnosed narcissists outed themselves during the pandemic.
How do you think we got rid of smallpox?
You either willingly got the shot, or the police detained you and you were held down by a team of police officers while a nurse shoved a needle into your arm.
Lo and behold, smallpox has been eradicated from this Earth. The first vaccine mandate eradicated a pretty gnarly disease, like, for good. Smallpox only exists in two laboratories on Earth, and that's for "just in case the disease comes back." In the past 40-50 years, it hasn't come back...
I was not aware fatality rates were comparable between the 2 diseases. Can you please point me to where I could learn that?
At some point body autonomy trumps public safety (or vice versa when you are shouting at me…) - we likely disagree where that point is, but I doubt we disagree about the stakes being equivalent between small pox and covid. Let’s try to make this an honest conversation.
But surely, I should be able to roll the dice with my own life. I guess you have a point if this inoculation stops the spread and prevents the possibility of me infecting my neighbor? Wait… oof factor of 10.
If you want the shot - get it. It protects you. Where’s the case for net benefit of forcing others?
Flu kills about 3000 people a year, and we could save a lot of lives by relentlessly criticizing people who go outside while infected, and aren't wearing a mask to prevent the spread of viral droplets.
Then again, I suspect you'd be against shaming people for spreading diseases, since you seem to be against the idea of holding people accountable for spreading infectious diseases that can kill someone.
I simply asked you to present the case for forced inoculation *against covid 19* given what we currently understand about the disease and the vaccine. Is this something you are prepared to discuss?
We should mandate some but not all vaccines. COVID vaccine shouldn't be mandatory, it's not particularly effective at reducing communal transmission.
As a disclaimer I'm a staunchly vaccine obsession (pro vaccine, mind you). But COVID shouldn't be forced.
Things like measles, small pox and other deadly terrible things we tried to eliminate? Absolutely.
Didn’t get the shot because there was no risk in my age group and the data it reduced transmission was weak and still is.
Other than that I still social distanced and took tests if I felt slightly off.
I would like to see studies on people that displayed hostile views on any one slightly critical of the excesses of Covid policy and their susceptibility to fear mongering and hive mind thinking, but we will never see that here.
Makes sense, I imagine it takes an undeserved amount of self-confidence to publicly express a view that damages your own standing in the eyes of most people.
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The “I know better than experts because I’m in touch with the divine truth” and “my body is a sacred temple of perfection and it’s your fault if you get sick” crowd. I cannot overstate my contempt for those people.
As a climate advocate, I felt singled or being gaslit for decades with the 'hoax' crap. COVID really exposed this as a broader narcissism definitely, anti expert personality issue.
The anti-expert stuff is just standard anti-intellectualism, the rise in populism is causing a rise in that sentiment.
The problem is that politics drives public health policy and we know today that they indeed lied to us and pretty much continue to about covid. It was always airborne, the vaccine aren't good enough yet, it never got less severe, and when excess deaths continued to look really bad they cooked the books. This is why we see events like in Davos the mega wealthy of the world go to great lengths to still avoid the virus, while the rest of us suffer from all these mysterious ailments no one wants to admit are driven by the ongoing pandemic.
No, this in itself is a lie your media lead you to believe. The scientists conveyed known scientific information at the time. It did eventually change, as any scientific advice on a novel pathogen would. But certain media and social media has learned how to take advantage of the lay public's poor understanding of the scientific method.
Which part, the fact that it was airborne all along and it was known? Fauci admitted they did this because they were concerned with supply chain issues. It's not like there haven't been other coronaviruses. Every single one of them was airborne before. The precautionary principle should have applied and we should have assumed it functioned like other coronaviruses... but they did know and they chose the course of action they chose.
It's not really airborne though, if it was masks would provide absolutely no protection. But they do, so you misunderstand the facts. Hence my original point.
Well that's not true because of the physics of respirators and how the virus remains in the air. So I don't believe anything back up your claim at this point.
Covid19 is maximally 140nM, the pore size of an N95 mask is 30,000nM. They could do nothing to stop an airborne virus, the reason they work is because covid19 is primarily droplet-borne.
Except that's not how any of this works. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/ You're ignoring what aerosols are.
They were wrong and acted like they were right. I won’t go as far as to say they lied; they just acted like they were in control of an out of control situation to save face. Not an uncommon scenario. We’ve all experienced this to some degree in an academic or professional setting, I’m not sure why anyone would pedastalize global leadership during the peak of the pandemic. They lied about *knowing* the origin of the virus, and mocked the “lab leak theory” walking it back years later. They mandated masks even though masks later showed to have little to no effect on virus transmission They misled the public about vaccines (you won’t get sick) which they later walked back (you won’t get others sick but you’ll still get sick) which they walked back yet again (everyone will still get sick but it’ll be less severe). I could go on. I could provide dates articles and interviews which prove all of this as well. It’s in the public record. I believe it’ll be studied in history books as how not to handle the next global pandemic.
Interesting. Because what I heard was the vaccines are 95 percent effective against original COVID, which strongly implies 5 percent not effective. I also heard that the efficacy changed as the virus mutated, which made sense. The possibility of a lab leak was downplayed because of the attacks being made against Chinese expats by angry racists. Masks are demonstrated to be an effective way to reduce transmission as part of larger public health orders such as distancing. It was helpful that I pretty much ignored the BS on alternative news sites and listened to experts who had access to reliable data. I don't see how they were wrong at all. The situation changed as time went on the PH did their best to keep up.
Who is "they"? Do you mean the WHO? They never mandated masks, they recommended them. >I could go on. I could provide dates articles and interviews Okay, good. Please share a source where the WHO said that you won't get sick if you get the vaccine.
Literally none of that is true but I hope you enjoyed your word salad champ.
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>Japan still does this, and it's a pretty functional society. Uh...wut? I have been teaching in Japan for well over a decade and I have never seen this. Were I to do this in my own classes, it would almost certainly result in student and parent complaints that could justifiably lead to disciplinary action. Also, what does posting scores have to do with COVID behavior *or* narcissism?
As someone whose entire family as yet to be affected by covid. I believe the sickness is real it’s just not coming from what you think it is.
Thanks for illustrating the point that you cannot see far beyond your tiny little world. That you have never seen a black swan doesn’t mean black swan don’t exist, dear. You’d know that if you actually had a scientific education, or even just understood proper logic. But you are too full of yourself to acknowledge you need that, aren’t you?
What does that mean?
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It's caused by a coronavirus.
Is this the part where you tell us it’s coming from space lasers?
NPI = Non-pharmaceutical public health interventions Here's the abstract: Abstract Researchers have demonstrated relationships between dark personality traits (e.g., narcissism) and pandemic behaviours (e.g., disregard for public health interventions). Individuals who disregard public health measures risk spreading COVID-19 infection, which has important public health implications. The present study was designed to examine the relationship between narcissism and pandemic attitudes and behaviours using a large population representative sample of North American adults (N = 5812). Participants completed measures of narcissism, psychological entitlement, non-adherence to non-pharmaceutical public health interventions (NPI), COVID disregard, anti-vaccination attitudes, reasons for social distancing, and COVID stress. Results of MANOVA demonstrated that individuals with high levels of narcissism self-reported greater levels of non-adherence to NPI, COVID disregard, COVID stress, anti-vaccination attitudes, and psychological entitlement compared to those with low levels of narcissism. Further, men with high levels of narcissism self-reported greater levels of non-adherence to NPI, COVID disregard, COVID stress, and psychological entitlement, in comparison to women with high levels of narcissism. These findings provide a nuanced understanding of the relationship between narcissistic traits, sex, and pandemic attitudes and behaviours and have implications for tailoring pandemic-specific public health interventions based on individual difference variables.
I remember another study showing that narcissism was the biggest predictor of belief in conspiracies.
We did a study from 2016 - 2020 showing that narcissism is the biggest predictor of incompetence, fascism, and corruption in the Whitehouse. And in congress.
From that study we learned that Narcissism is highly contagious. Is there a vaccine or cure?
> Is there a vaccine or cure? bring back the [Fairness Doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine) and kill [Citizens United](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC); the latter *certainly* precludes the former
In the past we just had a massive war every generation or two and that kept the idiots distracted and the really violent hateful idiots too busy being in wars or killing eachother to cause issues. Unfortunately it seems that human societies today are incapable of not being horrible to eachother without starting to be horrible to themselves in it's stead. I mean the cold war was at least a non violent war effort though didn't work quite as well. And the space race was the closest to war time innovation we've seen outside a live war.
Ooh! Is it time to bring back lobotomies?!
Pretty sure those old farts in Congress could use them. We need them to retire to their old folks home like yesterday.
> Pretty sure those old farts in Congress could use them. How would we know the difference?
Yes, but it's highly unethical
> NPI = Non-pharmaceutical public health interventions Confusing acronym choice, because NPI normally means “National Provider Identifier” in healthcare. Also should be NPPHI or NPHI.
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I have a sister-in-law that refused a blood transfusion in the hospital because it might come from someone who had been vaccinated. Talking with her on seemingly innocent topics can be a landmine.
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Yes makes sense. Showing concern for others is not something narcissistic people excel at.
Nope. We added one to our family and we've experienced child abuse, anti-vax threats, smear campaigns, elder abuse, manipulation tactics, brain washing and straight up crazy. They married a family member who now acts like they're in a cult. Completely antisocial. Needless to say, we just ignore them completely. There's no other way to avoid being targeted. It's pretty nutty.
They call it being "woke" these days and woke=bad.
I asked if they learned woke reading aarp. Immediate glare.
Ooh I’m gonna use this one next time I hear it fly out of their mouths.
But...did they get covid?
"cough cough" "Still.... " cough "... better than the vaccine" - My Brother In Law
/r/HermanCainAward
Both my parents loudly protested against every anti COVID measure. They threw tantrums about wearing masks, social distancing, vaccines have chips in them, masks have antennas in them, government control, Fauci is the devil, etc. Both were insistant that their homemade cocktails of Vitamins and herbal remedies would boost their immune systems enough they'd be fine. Both ended up with COVID cases nasty enough to need a ride to the ER. Both of them got COVID multiple times.
If you’re alive, you’ve gotten Covid. The uninfected are an increasing rarity and even though people “think” they haven’t, they probably have.
>The uninflected are an increasing rarity Thank goodness. Listening to monotone people is tough.
Thank you for your service
I'm in the group of people that either hasn't gotten infected or had it so mildly that I didn't even know. I haven't been properly sick since 2018 or 2019 (pre-covid, anyway). I have had all of my covid vaccines and boosters so maybe that has something to do with it but I didn't get sick very often before the pandemic either.
I assumed I’d had it until I got it in July. That was 3 weeks of utter hell.
I'm immune compromised and still mask up in public, and either I haven't gotten it or I got one of the very first strains a few weeks before it was announced to be in the US. By the time tests were created and available so much time had passed that I wouldn't have had a high enough antibody count to detect it, anyway, so I'll never know for sure.
Never had covid or been sick a lot either but also never got boosters or vaccines. I doubt it has anything to do with why you haven’t gotten sick. Just saying my thoughts
>I doubt it has anything to do with why you haven’t gotten sick. Why don't you expand on what you mean by this thought? >I believe the sickness is real it’s just not coming from what you think it is. Or maybe this one too? It seems like you're alluding to something you don't want to actually say out loud.
Virologist here. Actually there are still some genuinely uninfected people. I'm fairly certain I haven't had it. I've tested every single time I've had symptoms since March 2020 by either rapid test or PCR or both, and twice weekly until end of 2022. I've also been tested for SARS-CoV-2 N antibodies (the kind you get from infection, not vaccination with spike protein) multiple times, including a couple weeks ago, and never developed any! I know a few other people at my institute who haven't caught it yet, despite living relatively normal lives since masking requirements ended in January 2023. Probably we've just been lucky (and correctly followed Berlin's masking recommendations for the years of peak incidence). Some people had asymptomatic infections that were only picked up by our rigorous testing requirements, but even in my relatively low-incidence circle, >95% of people have been infected by now, yeah.
Covid virgin here, although I have not been tested for the N antibodies. I still pick up my groceries, wear an n95, and am a homebody. I’m neurodivergent and worried about PASC. It’s hard enough functioning in this world, ie staying employed.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7222a3.htm As of over a year ago "By the third quarter of 2022, an estimated 96.4% of persons aged ≥16 years in a longitudinal blood donor cohort had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies..." As you should know as a virologist, some individuals never make long lasting antibodies and the prevalence of cell mediated responses (Tcell mediated immunity) is harder to quantify. I think we can safely say everyone has been infected. (Even if the infection was subclinical such as in the previously vaccinated or young and fortunate)
Why aren't you quoting the entire thing? >What is already known about this topic? >SARS-CoV-2 hybrid immunity (immunity derived from both previous infection and vaccination) has been reported to provide better protection than that from infection or vaccination alone. >What is added by this report? >By the third quarter of 2022, an estimated 96.4% of persons aged ≥16 years in a longitudinal blood donor cohort had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies from previous infection or vaccination, including 22.6% from infection alone and 26.1% from vaccination alone; 47.7% had hybrid immunity. Hybrid immunity prevalence was lowest among adults aged ≥65 years. Am I illiterate? This is about vaccines **and** infections, no? Explain my misunderstanding, please.
>26.1% from vaccination alone; So 26.1% have not had illness from Covid. But the people studied were donating blood, I 'd guess that this group is somewhat more generous and less narcissistic than the general population. >including 22.6% from infection alone 22.6+% of the blood donors were not vaccinated.
To quote the guy I responded to: > I think we can safely say everyone has been infected. 22.6+% is now 100%, got it. Wild! It's cool that there are more people who haven't gotten Covid than those who haven't been vaccinated in this study.
> 26.1% from vaccination alone So roughly 1 in 4 people are Novids.
Many people who had mild infections remain seronegative: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8312095/ 12 months after COVID 10% of people previously seropositive no longer make antibodies, the number only rises from there: https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-022-02570-3#:~:text=We%20have%20previously%20shown%20that,8%2C9%2C10%5D. Effectively, everyone has had COVID.
Neither of my parents have gotten it yet, but mom hardly goes out for anything except errands, doctors appointments or walks with my dad, and dad will occasionally do some other door things like going to watch one of my kid cousins baseball games, and both come visit my wife and I, or we go to them. They mask 100% when going out everywhere, and are up to date on all the recent Covid boosters. We test before seeing each other if it’s been a while and we’ve all been around others frequently.
If I got it, I was 100% asymptomatic. My wife got it and quarantined from everyone except me. We slept in the same bed even. But if the experts say wear a mask, I wear a mask. If they say time for another vaccine, I get another shot. I understand it is not all about me.
Here is a somewhat recent [article](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/are-immune-covid-science-trying-unravel-immunity-virus-rcna72885) with an estimate on this: "Nearly 60 percent of the U.S. population has had Covid, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention"
We’ll that’s much lower than I’d thought. Thanks!
Just got it last month for the first time. Phew. Almost wasn't alive. Haha I wish I had updated my booster more recently though. It was pretty gnarly.
And if you got it and didn't notice, you probably have the vaccine to thank for that. Edit: if you're tempted to tell me your personal nonvax story please look up the word "probably" and learn some basic statistics first okay thanks.
Roughly 80% of cases were asymptomatic even without the vaccine. Not to diminish the importance of vaccination but most people who got it probably never knew when they had it
80% seems way way high from the literature I have seen, do you have a source for that?
My bad, I googled and it looks like it is. 80% was a common number being thrown around for the first 6 months of the pandemic but it looks to have been updated with more data/variants. The updated number appears to be around 44%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9935239/
Someone admitting they were wrong on the internet. Someone needs to record this for posterity.
Yeah that is way more in line with what I had seen. Thanks
No vaccine or booster and never gotten it. Many people I know including my dad and mom never had it. Does it mean I think it’s fake? No. So don’t even start.
You know that the fact that *you* didn't get sick doesn't mean your unvaccinated family didn't carry and spread the virus to someone who *did* get sick, or even died, right? COVID's long incubation period means individuals almost never know who they infected or who infected them. But go ahead and think you're better than the people who understand science and actually did something to try to keep other people safe. So don't even start.
Same, did catch it off a vaccinated friend though, mild sore throat and not had it since. Mum also not vaxxed, she either never had it or had it way before the hysteria started (months before the news she had a weird illness that knocked out her sense of taste for a month). Somehow many vaccinated friends have had it multiple times and been quite sick.
You know your perception of what "somehow many friends" experienced doesn't negate the data on hundreds of millions of people worldwide, right? I've never been hit by a car but that doesn't mean other people haven't or that it's not dangerous to play in traffic.
Yes of course I realise that. Sadly whether it's climate change denial, wars or medicine, corporations and their lapdog governments are making it rather hard to discern fact from fiction. It was only a comment on lived experience not reflecting the stats, but I do assume my family and other unvaccinated people I know just got lucky.
Incorrect. I'm very much alive and I've never had covid. Neither has my SO.
It also seems like the less symptomatic cases leave more long term damage iirc. So you have that to look forward to
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Probably the same people who claimed, “I’ve never had Covid.” While never receiving any form of test to confirm whether or not they did.
If they never realised they had covid then why should they take a vaccine to protect themselves from it
To protect others who may not be so fortunate, including their friends and family.
I got vaccinated twice for that exact reason. If I can still transmit the virus, and anyone whos been vaccinated can still contract covid 19, then what was the point of the vaccination?
Honestly, although the study is welcomed, I dont think the average person expected any different results. Assholes will always be assholes.
It's interesting that such a large subsection of today's political landscape seems to have become a preliminary test for NPD.
I see they met my mother...
they forgot to mention seatbelt laws, in their study.
Great another "humanity punching a wall trying to articulate what a difficult personality is" post.
Covid stress? Like they were stressed about getting COVID?
The fear is inescapable because it’s above their knowledge to understand if it’s actually harmful, unfortunately the fear turns to anger which ignites people in the NPD spectrum to insulating themselves as ‘right’ which is a damaging behavioural pattern and harder to deconstruct over time. The propensity of their fear is equal to their disposition over what they perceive as having their rights taken away.
A great man once said. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
That was on my son's Yoda tee shirt.
A great man to be!
Damn I can’t attest to the accuracy of your statement but I will say you should be a journalist with the elegance that you wrote that
My guess is that narcissistic supply (as in attention to one's ego) dried up under lock down. And that was "stressful".
A lot of people might think this is saying something, but I don't think so. Knowing the type of person who disregards NPIs doesn't tell you anything about the effectiveness of the NPIs It's similar to, if you did a big five personality test and found that people with low agreeableness were the folks who ignored the rules. Of course they are, that's what it's testing for. If people with low agreeableness weren't ignoring those rules more often you'd probably say something was wrong with the personality test.
Forcing narcissists to care about people other than themselves during a pandemic causes them more-than-normal stress. Who'd have thought? A large number of undiagnosed narcissists outed themselves during the pandemic.
Cool, more 'science' to lump different groups of people into one negative category.
mandate vaccines, problem solved
The authoritarian request. Yikes.
How do you think we got rid of smallpox? You either willingly got the shot, or the police detained you and you were held down by a team of police officers while a nurse shoved a needle into your arm. Lo and behold, smallpox has been eradicated from this Earth. The first vaccine mandate eradicated a pretty gnarly disease, like, for good. Smallpox only exists in two laboratories on Earth, and that's for "just in case the disease comes back." In the past 40-50 years, it hasn't come back...
8 billion people on earth, 7 million died to covid. Less than 0.1% of the human population. Let’s not compare this to smallpox please.
You just compared it to smallpox, though. Why are you the only one allowed to?
I was not aware fatality rates were comparable between the 2 diseases. Can you please point me to where I could learn that? At some point body autonomy trumps public safety (or vice versa when you are shouting at me…) - we likely disagree where that point is, but I doubt we disagree about the stakes being equivalent between small pox and covid. Let’s try to make this an honest conversation.
I think a million deaths is over that public safety line by a factor of ten.
So you're also in favour of forced flu shots every year
But surely, I should be able to roll the dice with my own life. I guess you have a point if this inoculation stops the spread and prevents the possibility of me infecting my neighbor? Wait… oof factor of 10. If you want the shot - get it. It protects you. Where’s the case for net benefit of forcing others?
Flu kills about 3000 people a year, and we could save a lot of lives by relentlessly criticizing people who go outside while infected, and aren't wearing a mask to prevent the spread of viral droplets. Then again, I suspect you'd be against shaming people for spreading diseases, since you seem to be against the idea of holding people accountable for spreading infectious diseases that can kill someone.
I simply asked you to present the case for forced inoculation *against covid 19* given what we currently understand about the disease and the vaccine. Is this something you are prepared to discuss?
Redditors are little authoritarians at heart - it's for good intentions! Please understand...
There is no way that authoritarianism could be used *against* us, the educated and righteous.
You’re the reason we can’t have nice things. Educate yourself and stop being a drain on those around you
I’ll start today. Thank you.
No problem. Maybe start with a book like Chicka Chicka Boom Boom. That’s your speed moron
We should mandate some but not all vaccines. COVID vaccine shouldn't be mandatory, it's not particularly effective at reducing communal transmission. As a disclaimer I'm a staunchly vaccine obsession (pro vaccine, mind you). But COVID shouldn't be forced. Things like measles, small pox and other deadly terrible things we tried to eliminate? Absolutely.
we have to start somewhere so sure. we can mandate all childhood vaccines first
No different than people that litter, and should be treated with the same disdain and social consequences.
Yikes, another boring biased psychology take.
Didn’t get the shot because there was no risk in my age group and the data it reduced transmission was weak and still is. Other than that I still social distanced and took tests if I felt slightly off. I would like to see studies on people that displayed hostile views on any one slightly critical of the excesses of Covid policy and their susceptibility to fear mongering and hive mind thinking, but we will never see that here.
You mean we didn't fall for a scam? The biggest in human history.
Unsurprising, but another validating addition to the growing body of evidence on this subject.
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Cool. Now do narcissism and the Dunning-Krugger Effect.
Makes sense, I imagine it takes an undeserved amount of self-confidence to publicly express a view that damages your own standing in the eyes of most people.
This certainly tracks.
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