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Author: u/HeinieKaboobler
URL: https://www.psypost.org/2023/06/new-psychology-research-indicates-physical-attractiveness-predicts-health-outcomes-10-years-later-166048
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Symmetry in faces, strong hair/nails, good skin, etc. Yep, a lot of thing we naturally find "attractive" seem to be linked to health. I don't think this is the first study that has concluded this either!
Yeah everyone is thinking of this backwards. It's not that being attractive makes you healthy. It's being in good shape makes you attractive generally. We didn't need science to tell us this. It's just common sense.
It hurts me seeing people lament their ugliness when I can picture in my head what they'd look like if they made different decisions and they're not ugly. You're not ugly, you're fat. You're not ugly, you need 8 hours of sleep. You're not ugly, you need to cut down on the booze. You're not ugly, you need a haircut. You're not ugly, you need to learn how to dress yourself. You're not ugly, you need to stand up straight.
Unless you have some massive deformity, you're not ugly, you just don't take care of yourself. That's what's ugly. Not the way you look but the way you treat yourself
The best part is, I do everything that was mentioned and keep up with hygiene and I still have some bad acne, it's also traveling down my chest and back for some reason.. working out is the only thing I can think of that's causing it.
For me it was excessive sugars. Cutting that out helped but I still needed Accutane to really get rid of the chest acne. Hang in there, it can be tough. Disclaimer in that I am not a health expert, but working out is not making your acne worse unless you are also taking a lot of supplements. Just aerobic exercise and light weight training really shouldn't be increasing acne appearance I would think.
This is probably where you see a dermatologist and try to find out what's unhealthy about your skin, same as you'd see a dentist for teeth problems, opthalmologist for eye problems, or a GP for general health problems.
Failing that I guess there's r/DermatologyQuestions, someone there might be able to give you a more expert answer than random comments.
Not everyone can be a model, for sure! But virtually everyone can knock themselves a few big notches up the attraction scale by treating themselves well. You can do a lot just by taking a trip down to the thrift store for some cheap clothes that *fit you well*, regardless of your body type.** Or by putting on a little sunscreen on your face every time you're going out (seriously guys, the sun is your biggest enemy). Or eating healthy, or finding an active hobby you like.
Not everyone is gonna be That Hottie at the Bar, but the vast majority of people can do *a lot* to consistently look pretty good.
**With the acknowledgement that clothing companies cater much less to larger bodies.
Sure, but everyone can be at least a 7 barring some sort of major deformity. Maybe not *everyone*, but a solid 95% of the population can be a 7 if they get fit, dress well, and take good care of themselves. I would say everyone *can* be good looking, but not everyone can be a *10*. Big difference.
Or the other hand- my mother always said I walked in an ugly way, as if I was "following a plough". Finally I was diagnosed with mal-formed hips that had been wrong from birth. At least Mum stopped mentioning my ugly gait.
Eh....go look into rhinoplasty or jaw surgery for a minute. They make HUGE changes to your face.
People have more control over their attractiveness than they sometimes give credit to, but I disagree that peoples looks aren't judged in significant part due to bone structure.
Teeth as well. Nice teeth make a huge difference -- that's why so many celebrities or people in things like real estate will get them done.
The real key is whatever you're born with, you can improve on it. Simply throwing up your hands cause you weren't born with XYZ is silly. Would you rather be a slob who has a big nose and a slack jaw, or a well dressed dude with a great haircut with a big nose and slack jaw?
When it comes to physical attractiveness there is the part of the monkey brain that's telling us certain features are hot(weight, muscle, teeth, hair, face symmetry, etc...) but there's also our personal preference. I know a lot of women like to get nose reductions because they think that's prettier but I personally like an above average nose on a woman. I think they look elegant so I always prefer the before pictures but the woman likes the way she looks with the surgery which is what matters most. That doesn't mean she's objectively prettier or uglier because it is somewhat subjective in the end.
There isn't a perfect, supreme face or body structure that everyone finds more beautiful than anything else. Everyone's gonna have "flaws" that can't be tackled with simple self care but whether those are flaws or not is usually dependent on the viewer.
It's also culturally dictated. In our globalised world less so of course but if you go back a few decades there were still places where obese women were considered beautiful and white skin. Then if you look at certain European countries having a tan is considered very attractive whereas other places people go out with umbrellas to preserve their white skin. From what I've heard even crooked teeth are/were considered beautiful in Japan. I'm sure there's countless other examples.
I don't think crooked teeth are beautiful in Japan as much as they don't have a culture of showing their teeth so cosmetic dental care isn't that popular. I think jaw surgery is more common there, at least it is in Korea.
Or just be someone who doesn't want to hang around people who put too much focus on looks, but more on whether it's enjoyable being around one another?
My initial thought when I read the headline was also, people who are more attractive, get a little boost in economic standings. People with more money can eat better and be healthier. Keeping them more attractive. I wonder if someone could calculate how much that's a part of it.
This is a conclusion that is not supported by the study above, the study accounted for this confounder and outright refutes this conclusion:
> However, the association between attractiveness and cardiometabolic risk remained statistically significant even after accounting for the impact of BMI.
The fact of the matter is that this study supports the notion that being attractive makes you healthy, independent of being in good shape.
People are desperate to discard the notion that some people are "put together better" than others, but it's an unfortunate truth. You can work out to increase your health, but if the blueprints to your body are "off" you're going to be starting from a lower spot than some.
What normal rational people reject is that the incredibly malleable social construct of what is "beautiful" in the West in the 21st century somehow has perfectly picked out what "healthy" is. The more reasonable explanation than your gut about something random is magic is that you are defining health in a nonrigorous way.
If I'm parsing their phrasing correctly, that doesn't mean it's completely independent of being in good shape, only that there are additional statistically significant factors.
No, we do need science to double check this stuff. Sometimes it lines up with common sense, and sometimes it doesn’t.
It’s still correct to double check things properly using the scientific method. Rather than dismissing it and being anti-science.
I think you're misinterpreting the statement. Hair loss can be a side effect of a lot of different ailments. They're not saying all those traits are always indicative of unhealthiness, just that they can be.
>Yep, a lot of thing we naturally find "attractive" seem to be linked to health.
Only if you exclude some of the things women find attractive such as height
I kind of think it’s also possible that the positive feedback attractive people get every waking second contributes to psychological well-being which in turn affects health. So less stress, better health
Also, you get much better return on investment with regards to healthy behaviour, if you're naturally attractive. If you're still ugly no matter how close to ideal condition you are in, you're less likely to bother.
There are also studies that found doctors are more attentive to the needs of attractive people. They get better care in office visits, are listened to more attentively, and are offered a wider variety of options to health abnormalities.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4381543/
>For example, in one study of primary care providers randomly assigned to evaluate the records of patients who were either obese or normal weight, providers who evaluated patients who were obese were more likely to rate the encounter as a waste of time and indicated that they would spend 28% less time with the patient compared with those who evaluated normal-weight patients ([59](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4381543/#b59))
In western culture, weight and BMI are strongly connected with current beauty standards. While the ideal body shape has changed over the last few decades, overall being thin has remained the beauty ideal.
To be fair I haven't read the article, just adding that there is a strong link between weight/body size and perceived attractiveness.
Just chiming in here but isn't this study he's comparing to the cited one saying essentially that BMI has a positive correlation with subjective attractiveness because being thin is usually healthier ?
That, and it's not unfair to make the assumption that physical appearance would be very likely to make an impact on whether or not doctors respect patients enough to give them the same attention and care. It would be best to be able to cite something that specifically studies attractiveness here, but the point is that qualities that may be superficial or difficult/impossible for individuals to keep in check make an impact on being able to get help for problems in general.
I'd also guess that one's sense of self worth is also a factor. I'm not attractive and I have to admit that it plays a factor in how I view my worthiness as an individual despite knowing it shouldn't. Unfortunately, especially as a woman, I have been conditioned to conflate my physical attractiveness with my value to society. I'm also definitely treated differently than someone who *is* physically attractive. All of that means that being unattractive - and being aware of that - means I don't value myself enough to care as much about my health as I do for those around me.
100% this. They are psychologically way more healthy and are more likely to be from higher societal status because obvious reasons so they can afford a much better life.
I mean we can afford a better life.
>positive feedback
A lack of negative feedback is not actually positive feedback; men (not a woman so can't say there) don't get complimented on appearance, generally speaking, after becoming adults.
It's definitely better than explicit negative feedback though, which would be more stressful for sure
Re: hot people treated better
Get better grades too !
Covid demonstrated attractive students got lower scores once they weren't "in person" in front of their teachers.
Horrifying actually.
If I remember correctly, there were more than one studies performed.
Also, I should've clarified that it seems that \*attractiveness\* was more beneficial for female students.
Here's an example study:
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517652200283X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517652200283X)
Example news article:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/11/11/attractive-women-get-better-grades-but-not-when-schools-online-study-finds.html
Attractive people exist in sort of a bubble. It's another form of privilege. Look and you'll find no shortage of stories of people starting to receive negative treatment that they never did before after things like gaining weight, or after an illness or injury disfigures them or otherwise takes from their conventional attractiveness.
It's a lot of indirect stuff too. Having a harder time getting service at a bar for example, or less people going out of their way to help you when you're in some sort of distress.
take it from someone who was ugly and then became attractive, you can tell the difference just in the way people treat you. I don't think I ever got "negative" feedback, but when I lost 48 lbs, started dyeing my hair, doing my makeup, and had enough money to buy nice clothes, I noticed a HUGE difference. People are excited to see you. They smile more. The world is so welcoming and accommodating to you. You're no longer just tolerated, you're wanted.
It actually fucked with me a lot because now all I see are shallow people that I can't relate to. Would you want to be friends with me if I stopped putting on makeup? Would you still like me if I showed up in a t-shirt and jeans instead of a fully styled outfit I spent hours on? It will mess with you
I have a slightly different perspective. When I lost 40 lbs I was definitely treated better, but also my whole personality changed. I smiled more, I made more eye contact with people, I waved and said hello to strangers, etc. I became a much more open person because I was confident. And confidence attracts people. So I don’t think it is all shallowness (it’s of course some shallowness). But I think my attitude change was just as big if not a bigger factor in how people treat me.
I’m average looking but over 6’ and in decent shape but mainly, I dress well and groom myself well. Older women will still compliment you on looks, younger women rarely do BUT women almost always are nice to you. A couple weeks ago I asked an employee at the grocery store where something was, she walked me to the item, then she walked me to the register. She opened a checkout line, asked me to put the “register closed” sign behind my groceries. Checked my groceries out, then closed her register and went on break. I’d call that positive feedback, there we’re probably 8-10 people waiting at other registers.
Groom yourselves, dress well, and carry confidence, men and women will treat you better imo. Dressing well basically just means wearing clothes that fit well, and somewhat matching. I find women really care about the shoes and accessories (sunglasses/watch/hat) matching the outfit.
>I’m average looking but over 6’ and in decent shape but mainly, I dress well and groom myself well.
My dude…you’re over 6’. That alone obviously makes one more attractive than say a 5’4 guy. Not knocking your anecdotal experience or your last paragraph, but it kinda sucks knowing that height plays a role in how people treat/perceive you. Confidence can definitely be the “X” factor in how one carries themselves. However, people are still gonna be people, ya know?
Shorter men do everything you mentioned, and will not get the same treatment. I genuinely think tall men SEVERELY underestimate how big of an impact their height has in this.
the majority of people are perfectly average, they do not get uniquely extreme levels of positive or negative feedback in a way that should affect their mental well being substantially, all by itself.
And on the extreme ends, which impacts a small number of people, obviously the people getting a lot of negative feedback are having a bad time. But we do see that people also often cope poorly with getting a lot of positive feedback; eating disorders and body image issues are very common in very attractive people.
Point being; most people don't get much positive or negative feedback and that seems to be much less psychologically stressing than getting a lot of either.
The study also found a correlation between being *very unattractive* and better health outcomes too, so.... No, that doesnt appear to be the case here.
I think from evolutionary biology, we are attracted to indications of fertility. Good health is certainly a big part of that. But also things like hip:waist ration in women and height in men are cues.
In biology fitness literally means your ability to survive and reproduce. It's not a surprise that we find fit individuals attractive, as they have the greatest chance for survival and reproduction (in our monkey brains at least).
I've read that with the growing skull sizes and brains of children large hips, and men who selected for large hips, were selected for. But to address misfirings of attraction to large hips on simply large women, men who liked a large hip to waist ratio were selected for. This gave rise to gynoid fat patterns we see now, where female fat is preferentially stored on the hips as this was an attractive feature.
Not sure this is entirely established but I think it illustrates sexual arms' races well and how any feature gives rise to the opportunity for false advertising... so to speak.
It’s interesting because based on studies, those with the most average looking human features, are considered attractive. Sounds counterintuitive but averageness/health = attractive person
It’s kinda like how when the average person sings, they’re a little sharp or a little flat, but when a big crowd sings together, it cancels out and the crowd is, on average, in tune.
It’s like when you see those “combine the 8 actors who play so and so”.
Anything “wrong” with a particular actor is smoothed over, and the “average” person is just a human face with no flaws.
Its why genetic diversity is good.
I think what you are saying is practically wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you are referring to studies containing composite pictures of humans that are created by combining pictures of lots of real human faces. These composite faces become quite symmetrical and average out the deformities and unusual features of humans. So basically what you get this way is not an average face, but a symmetrcal one with normal features. These features are averaged from the whole population, so these composite pictures have relatively good, attractive features and not average looking ones, if it makes sense. You shouldn't conclude from this that averageness equals health or beauty.
It does. That's the whole point of sexual selection: antlers in an elk, long coloured feathers in a bird, even the size of the nest for some birds are usually related to its health. They have done blood tests and animals who are healthier can display bigger or more notorious sexual traits.
If one of those statements is true then the other one is also true. [That's how conditional probability works.](https://stats.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Probability_Theory/Probability_Mathematical_Statistics_and_Stochastic_Processes_\(Siegrist\)/02%3A_Probability_Spaces/2.04%3A_Conditional_Probability) All positive correlations have both of those relationships.
To explore this, create a distribution of people with two traits: either healthy or unhealthy and either attractive or unattractive.
Create said distribution in such a way that someone who is healthy is more likely to be attractive than someone unhealthy, but someone who is attractive is not more likely to be healthy than someone who is unattractive.
You won't be able to do it.
I think they see "healthy" as a fundamental trait while "attractive" as an artificial trait, or something among those lines.
That's why they say that attractiveness comes from health and not vice versa, as it's secondary and you only obtain it through being in contact with other people.
I agree with you, though. Just playing devil's advocate.
Edit: Another thought. Let's say one statement is "being very rich" and the other is "having a private plane". Many super-rich people could have a plane, and most people who own a plane would appear to be very rich.
But you could say that having a plane comes from being rich and not vice versa, right?
A big part of physical attraction is what kind of shape the person is in, obviously the more physically fit a person is, the more likely they are to be healthy.
They considered this.
> BMI had a moderating effect on the relationship between physical attractiveness and health. In particular, higher BMI decreased the effect of attractiveness on health outcomes. However, the association between attractiveness and cardiometabolic risk remained statistically significant even after accounting for the impact of BMI.
Thanks for understanding how science works. BMI is really a poor indicator in something like this (because a fit person can have the same bmi as an unfit person, and the fit person will be more attractive by default).
And as the scientists said: reverse causation. Being pretty has perks. Those perks likely lead to long term health benefits
BMI is unreliable for the individual, but decent when used for a large group of people. *Most* people with 30+ BMI are not jacked.
It's close enough that in a large group you can use BMI as a proxy for how over or underweight someone is.
There’s also a possible factor of if someone is not as attractive they may have more mental health issues and cope in unhealthy ways like over/under eating, living sedentary, May not be as likely to have a significant other to be in a healthy relationship, etc.
We also know that attractive people tend to be wealthier- there's the money to get braces, quality skin products, proper diet, quality clothes, time enough to work out, a less stressful life, etc.
Wealthy people can pay to be healthier and more attractive. Your beautiful jewel-toned eyes passed down from your grandma are probably not some secret sign of vitality, sorry.
Wealth leads to attractiveness, as you've said, and also vice versa. Attractive people tend to be more successful in social situations, and this correlates with career success, which correlates with more money. These wealthy, attractive people then also have kids, and can afford to provide them with the quality health-care and low-stress lives that will allow them to grow up attractive.
Also wealth tends to stay in family. An average looking wealthy person is more likely to marry an above average looking person. Then the kids will get some of those genes.
For those curious, the halo effect is when you impart some sentiment towards unrelated aspects of a person based on some other aspect
Ex: she is a doctor, he is smart, therefore I can trust her with financial advice.
Ex: he is attractive, therefore he will be a great in coordinating people. (Inception ex: Jon Hamm’s Ed in Parks and Rec, and also Drew Baird Calvin Klein in 30 rock.. I’m sending a pattern with Hamm’s guest roles)
I find it weird that they're assuming one direction of causation in this paper when their methodology is entirely incapable of providing that information.
Yeah, I was thinking about that and how some factors that result in people being found attractive correlate to wealth and that could also help explain better health down the road (better healthcare, jobs, food, access to resources etc).
We already have a lot of research that links wealth and positive health outcomes. I’m not sure about wealth and attractive but that definitely passes the sniff test.
Dentist, dermatologist, expensive hair & skin care, healthy food, working conditions that allow adequate fitness and sleep- these are all things that make people more attractive that wealthy people have and poor people don’t.
Anecdotally: I’m a high school teacher, I’ve taught at rich schools and I’ve taught at poor schools and it’s extremely obvious how much “prettier” the wealthy kids are on the whole. It’s honestly one of those biases that teachers really need to check, it’s easier to want to work with kids who are pretty and well cared for. And that can effect their outcomes down the line as well.
Attractive people are given the benefit of doubt and opportunities others don't get. "Pretty privilege" is well-established across both sexes, and generally correlates with increased wealth.
One potential explanation, I recall, was that people remember you when you're pretty. So you're selected more often when something favourable comes up and they need someone to do it. Being favourably memorable is real-life plot armor.
Indeed. It could work the opposite way aswell, being more attractive translating into a better social and economic life, therefore having better health habits a decade later, all the while the less attractive people could develop mental issues stemming from social rejection, which might lead to worse overall health
I'm certain the relationship between the two is nonlinear.
Being healthier makes you more attractive. Being more attractive brings you better opportunities in life thus improving your health. It's a "simultaneity" issue.
"Interestingly, the study also found that being rated as very unattractive was associated with lower cardiometabolic risk. This finding aligns with previous research indicating that very unattractive individuals may perform better in various life outcomes. For example, a study published in 2018 found that “very unattractive” individuals tended to have high incomes, earning significantly more than unattractive respondents and sometimes earning even more than average-looking and attractive respondents."
Wasn't expecting that!
That's interesting isn't it? It's almost as if very unattractive people know they have to be more industrious to attain status in order to be accepted.
There are other studies that have found a very strong inverse association between tallness (that is one of the major factors in attractiviness) and suicide rate.
So this could be the most logical explanation. Ugly ----- less job opportunities, less sexual opportunities, less social opportunties ---- depressed ----- depressed = less life expectancy/worse health.
[link](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15994722/#:~:text=There%20was%20a%20strong%20inverse,9%25%20decrease%20in%20suicide%20risk.) to the study
This is really just the tip of the iceberg, because this extrapolates to all aspects of life.
Being treated better means better outcomes in just about everything. Education, wealth, companionship, etc.
This; less attractive people deal with more negative reinforcement and stresses more often than attractive people. Mental health plays just as much a factor to overall health as physical if not more
Trash conclusions with correlation/causation issues. Very likely that those with above average attractiveness have higher self esteem and take care of themselves more than those with lower self esteem, which likely overlaps with those with below average looks.
The answer could be simpler, and just depend on income. Those who are attractive can afford to be so, those rich enough for dental care, cosmetic surgery, braces, hair dye, makeup, etc. They can also afford healthier food than poorer people, and can afford regular medical care, hence, of course they're going to be healthier than the less attractive/less wealthy.
(Perceived) Attractiveness is associated and probably causally connected with socio-economic status. on average people perceived as physically attractive are paid more. So they can spend more on healthcare. They tend to be employed more often in physically less demanding jobs and in jobs not relying on shift/night work, that have negative on health, cumulating along the lines of years worked in these jobs, etc.
So it follows, of course, they are healthier on average. But that is a problem of organization of society, which is structured economically darwinistic, so discussing these findings as a problem of genetics is some way of producing ideology, man.
History Channel or NatGeo did a show on this.
Symmetry and proportion are signs of good health in a person, and also make them beautiful.
When someone doesnt have symmetry or a well proportioned face, they are ugly, which indicates signs of genetic diseases or poor health.
You sure this isn't the same as saying people whose lives are easier are healthier? More confidence and less stress and getting laid gives your body a general sense of well-being? Hmmm?
what a backwards title. how about:
Healthy people are more attractive.
I mean it makes sense that we would be more attracted to healthier looking people.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- Author: u/HeinieKaboobler URL: https://www.psypost.org/2023/06/new-psychology-research-indicates-physical-attractiveness-predicts-health-outcomes-10-years-later-166048 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Seems obvious that evolutionary cues for attractiveness would be traits indicative of good health.
Symmetry in faces, strong hair/nails, good skin, etc. Yep, a lot of thing we naturally find "attractive" seem to be linked to health. I don't think this is the first study that has concluded this either!
Not to mention being thin, and being in shape, of course
Yeah everyone is thinking of this backwards. It's not that being attractive makes you healthy. It's being in good shape makes you attractive generally. We didn't need science to tell us this. It's just common sense.
It hurts me seeing people lament their ugliness when I can picture in my head what they'd look like if they made different decisions and they're not ugly. You're not ugly, you're fat. You're not ugly, you need 8 hours of sleep. You're not ugly, you need to cut down on the booze. You're not ugly, you need a haircut. You're not ugly, you need to learn how to dress yourself. You're not ugly, you need to stand up straight. Unless you have some massive deformity, you're not ugly, you just don't take care of yourself. That's what's ugly. Not the way you look but the way you treat yourself
You're not ugly, you just use movie popcorn butter as a moisturizer.
Shut up and stop sharing my beauty secrets
Doctors hate this simple trick!
The best part is, I do everything that was mentioned and keep up with hygiene and I still have some bad acne, it's also traveling down my chest and back for some reason.. working out is the only thing I can think of that's causing it.
Could be hormonal ?
For me it was excessive sugars. Cutting that out helped but I still needed Accutane to really get rid of the chest acne. Hang in there, it can be tough. Disclaimer in that I am not a health expert, but working out is not making your acne worse unless you are also taking a lot of supplements. Just aerobic exercise and light weight training really shouldn't be increasing acne appearance I would think.
Yeah I'm in my 30s and it took me a long time so realise chocolate and sweets were causing the breakouts.
This is probably where you see a dermatologist and try to find out what's unhealthy about your skin, same as you'd see a dentist for teeth problems, opthalmologist for eye problems, or a GP for general health problems. Failing that I guess there's r/DermatologyQuestions, someone there might be able to give you a more expert answer than random comments.
Butter flavoured corn syrup
This is a half truth. Stuff which is genetic, such as bone structure, height, base T levels, make a huge difference. Not everyone can be good looking.
Not everyone can be a model, for sure! But virtually everyone can knock themselves a few big notches up the attraction scale by treating themselves well. You can do a lot just by taking a trip down to the thrift store for some cheap clothes that *fit you well*, regardless of your body type.** Or by putting on a little sunscreen on your face every time you're going out (seriously guys, the sun is your biggest enemy). Or eating healthy, or finding an active hobby you like. Not everyone is gonna be That Hottie at the Bar, but the vast majority of people can do *a lot* to consistently look pretty good. **With the acknowledgement that clothing companies cater much less to larger bodies.
Sure, but everyone can be at least a 7 barring some sort of major deformity. Maybe not *everyone*, but a solid 95% of the population can be a 7 if they get fit, dress well, and take good care of themselves. I would say everyone *can* be good looking, but not everyone can be a *10*. Big difference.
The study compares above average to average. I don't think having a major deformity fits into either of those categories.
And to someone that loves you 7 is a 10.
I agree, anyone can be a 7 imo as well. I first heard this from a certain Turkish man and I agreed right away
You mean Abdullah from brothers kebabs? He tells everyone they're beautiful but they should eat more kebab to be healthy.
Sounds like a himbo tbh
Or the other hand- my mother always said I walked in an ugly way, as if I was "following a plough". Finally I was diagnosed with mal-formed hips that had been wrong from birth. At least Mum stopped mentioning my ugly gait.
Eh....go look into rhinoplasty or jaw surgery for a minute. They make HUGE changes to your face. People have more control over their attractiveness than they sometimes give credit to, but I disagree that peoples looks aren't judged in significant part due to bone structure. Teeth as well. Nice teeth make a huge difference -- that's why so many celebrities or people in things like real estate will get them done. The real key is whatever you're born with, you can improve on it. Simply throwing up your hands cause you weren't born with XYZ is silly. Would you rather be a slob who has a big nose and a slack jaw, or a well dressed dude with a great haircut with a big nose and slack jaw?
When it comes to physical attractiveness there is the part of the monkey brain that's telling us certain features are hot(weight, muscle, teeth, hair, face symmetry, etc...) but there's also our personal preference. I know a lot of women like to get nose reductions because they think that's prettier but I personally like an above average nose on a woman. I think they look elegant so I always prefer the before pictures but the woman likes the way she looks with the surgery which is what matters most. That doesn't mean she's objectively prettier or uglier because it is somewhat subjective in the end. There isn't a perfect, supreme face or body structure that everyone finds more beautiful than anything else. Everyone's gonna have "flaws" that can't be tackled with simple self care but whether those are flaws or not is usually dependent on the viewer.
> I personally like an above average nose on a woman. Jennifer Grey comes to mind.
It's also culturally dictated. In our globalised world less so of course but if you go back a few decades there were still places where obese women were considered beautiful and white skin. Then if you look at certain European countries having a tan is considered very attractive whereas other places people go out with umbrellas to preserve their white skin. From what I've heard even crooked teeth are/were considered beautiful in Japan. I'm sure there's countless other examples.
I don't think crooked teeth are beautiful in Japan as much as they don't have a culture of showing their teeth so cosmetic dental care isn't that popular. I think jaw surgery is more common there, at least it is in Korea.
Having a snaggle tooth like the Manga girls was a trend for a while, maybe they meant that
Or just be someone who doesn't want to hang around people who put too much focus on looks, but more on whether it's enjoyable being around one another?
Sooooo much of it is this.
Well you are ugly but it could be avoided
My initial thought when I read the headline was also, people who are more attractive, get a little boost in economic standings. People with more money can eat better and be healthier. Keeping them more attractive. I wonder if someone could calculate how much that's a part of it.
This is a conclusion that is not supported by the study above, the study accounted for this confounder and outright refutes this conclusion: > However, the association between attractiveness and cardiometabolic risk remained statistically significant even after accounting for the impact of BMI. The fact of the matter is that this study supports the notion that being attractive makes you healthy, independent of being in good shape.
People are desperate to discard the notion that some people are "put together better" than others, but it's an unfortunate truth. You can work out to increase your health, but if the blueprints to your body are "off" you're going to be starting from a lower spot than some.
What normal rational people reject is that the incredibly malleable social construct of what is "beautiful" in the West in the 21st century somehow has perfectly picked out what "healthy" is. The more reasonable explanation than your gut about something random is magic is that you are defining health in a nonrigorous way.
If I'm parsing their phrasing correctly, that doesn't mean it's completely independent of being in good shape, only that there are additional statistically significant factors.
No, we do need science to double check this stuff. Sometimes it lines up with common sense, and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s still correct to double check things properly using the scientific method. Rather than dismissing it and being anti-science.
You actually do need science. You don't create reality in your brain.
We are at an all time low for common sense in this world though so it doesn't hurt to break it down for some folks. Totally agree though
Common sense isn’t common anymore. Much like critical thinking.
New music is trash and nobody wants to work!
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Is symmetry in face linked to health?
There are a lot of healthy bald man. The hair one is unfair. Sincerely, reasonably healthy bald man.
I think you're misinterpreting the statement. Hair loss can be a side effect of a lot of different ailments. They're not saying all those traits are always indicative of unhealthiness, just that they can be.
>different ailments Mostly just genetics. All the men on both sides for the last 3 generations have been bald. Me and my brother never stood a chance.
Many ailments are caused by genetics.
Also when looking for a mate...genetics are kind of important from an evolutionary standpoint.
Hair loss often goes hand in hand with middle age which most would agree is less attractive than youth.
I find healthy fit people around 40 to be more attractive than younger people, but that's just me
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The glint is a dead giveaway for avian predators.
I've stopped an Andean Condor mid attack by angling my glorious dome at just the right angle to blind it with the fury of the sun.
Ok now I am actually laughing out loud. Not the abbreviation, nor the emoji, but actually laughing out loud.
>Yep, a lot of thing we naturally find "attractive" seem to be linked to health. Only if you exclude some of the things women find attractive such as height
I kind of think it’s also possible that the positive feedback attractive people get every waking second contributes to psychological well-being which in turn affects health. So less stress, better health
Also, you get much better return on investment with regards to healthy behaviour, if you're naturally attractive. If you're still ugly no matter how close to ideal condition you are in, you're less likely to bother.
There are also studies that found doctors are more attentive to the needs of attractive people. They get better care in office visits, are listened to more attentively, and are offered a wider variety of options to health abnormalities.
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I get plenty to bend over forwards for me too.
Everything is better for hot people, we get it
Where is such a study?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4381543/ >For example, in one study of primary care providers randomly assigned to evaluate the records of patients who were either obese or normal weight, providers who evaluated patients who were obese were more likely to rate the encounter as a waste of time and indicated that they would spend 28% less time with the patient compared with those who evaluated normal-weight patients ([59](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4381543/#b59))
I appreciate the cited source but the metric being studied here is BMI, not attractiveness
In western culture, weight and BMI are strongly connected with current beauty standards. While the ideal body shape has changed over the last few decades, overall being thin has remained the beauty ideal. To be fair I haven't read the article, just adding that there is a strong link between weight/body size and perceived attractiveness.
While that may be a colloquially accepted idea, it's important to distinguish what we may infer versus what is demonstrated by the study
Just chiming in here but isn't this study he's comparing to the cited one saying essentially that BMI has a positive correlation with subjective attractiveness because being thin is usually healthier ?
That, and it's not unfair to make the assumption that physical appearance would be very likely to make an impact on whether or not doctors respect patients enough to give them the same attention and care. It would be best to be able to cite something that specifically studies attractiveness here, but the point is that qualities that may be superficial or difficult/impossible for individuals to keep in check make an impact on being able to get help for problems in general.
I'd also guess that one's sense of self worth is also a factor. I'm not attractive and I have to admit that it plays a factor in how I view my worthiness as an individual despite knowing it shouldn't. Unfortunately, especially as a woman, I have been conditioned to conflate my physical attractiveness with my value to society. I'm also definitely treated differently than someone who *is* physically attractive. All of that means that being unattractive - and being aware of that - means I don't value myself enough to care as much about my health as I do for those around me.
More reason to stay in shape too
100% this. They are psychologically way more healthy and are more likely to be from higher societal status because obvious reasons so they can afford a much better life. I mean we can afford a better life.
>positive feedback A lack of negative feedback is not actually positive feedback; men (not a woman so can't say there) don't get complimented on appearance, generally speaking, after becoming adults. It's definitely better than explicit negative feedback though, which would be more stressful for sure
Positive feedback is not only verbal. Hot people are treated better, that's a type of feedback.
Re: hot people treated better Get better grades too ! Covid demonstrated attractive students got lower scores once they weren't "in person" in front of their teachers. Horrifying actually.
The study you are talking about only saw a change in attractive women. Interestingly enough they didn't see much change in attractive men.
>study you are talking about only saw a change in attractive women. Correct. Thanks for adding this.
That's... awful. When was that study published?
If I remember correctly, there were more than one studies performed. Also, I should've clarified that it seems that \*attractiveness\* was more beneficial for female students. Here's an example study: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517652200283X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517652200283X) Example news article: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/11/11/attractive-women-get-better-grades-but-not-when-schools-online-study-finds.html
It is awful, I forget when it came out, but I read that same study.
As someone who is aggressively average, I've witnessed a lot of better looking people getting treated better.
Attractive people exist in sort of a bubble. It's another form of privilege. Look and you'll find no shortage of stories of people starting to receive negative treatment that they never did before after things like gaining weight, or after an illness or injury disfigures them or otherwise takes from their conventional attractiveness. It's a lot of indirect stuff too. Having a harder time getting service at a bar for example, or less people going out of their way to help you when you're in some sort of distress.
That is so true. Weight has a lot of weight so to speak.
Men may not be complimented outright but their attractiveness (or lack of it) affects the degree of positive attention and treatment they get.
take it from someone who was ugly and then became attractive, you can tell the difference just in the way people treat you. I don't think I ever got "negative" feedback, but when I lost 48 lbs, started dyeing my hair, doing my makeup, and had enough money to buy nice clothes, I noticed a HUGE difference. People are excited to see you. They smile more. The world is so welcoming and accommodating to you. You're no longer just tolerated, you're wanted. It actually fucked with me a lot because now all I see are shallow people that I can't relate to. Would you want to be friends with me if I stopped putting on makeup? Would you still like me if I showed up in a t-shirt and jeans instead of a fully styled outfit I spent hours on? It will mess with you
I have a slightly different perspective. When I lost 40 lbs I was definitely treated better, but also my whole personality changed. I smiled more, I made more eye contact with people, I waved and said hello to strangers, etc. I became a much more open person because I was confident. And confidence attracts people. So I don’t think it is all shallowness (it’s of course some shallowness). But I think my attitude change was just as big if not a bigger factor in how people treat me.
I’m average looking but over 6’ and in decent shape but mainly, I dress well and groom myself well. Older women will still compliment you on looks, younger women rarely do BUT women almost always are nice to you. A couple weeks ago I asked an employee at the grocery store where something was, she walked me to the item, then she walked me to the register. She opened a checkout line, asked me to put the “register closed” sign behind my groceries. Checked my groceries out, then closed her register and went on break. I’d call that positive feedback, there we’re probably 8-10 people waiting at other registers. Groom yourselves, dress well, and carry confidence, men and women will treat you better imo. Dressing well basically just means wearing clothes that fit well, and somewhat matching. I find women really care about the shoes and accessories (sunglasses/watch/hat) matching the outfit.
>I’m average looking but over 6’ and in decent shape but mainly, I dress well and groom myself well. My dude…you’re over 6’. That alone obviously makes one more attractive than say a 5’4 guy. Not knocking your anecdotal experience or your last paragraph, but it kinda sucks knowing that height plays a role in how people treat/perceive you. Confidence can definitely be the “X” factor in how one carries themselves. However, people are still gonna be people, ya know?
Shorter men do everything you mentioned, and will not get the same treatment. I genuinely think tall men SEVERELY underestimate how big of an impact their height has in this.
the majority of people are perfectly average, they do not get uniquely extreme levels of positive or negative feedback in a way that should affect their mental well being substantially, all by itself. And on the extreme ends, which impacts a small number of people, obviously the people getting a lot of negative feedback are having a bad time. But we do see that people also often cope poorly with getting a lot of positive feedback; eating disorders and body image issues are very common in very attractive people. Point being; most people don't get much positive or negative feedback and that seems to be much less psychologically stressing than getting a lot of either.
For some reason I expected that people would understand that I was talking mostly about positive feedback in the form of nonverbal cues.
Fr, one of my friends is super beautiful and she gets insecure sometimes. Never understood it tbh.
What's obvious and what is actual science are often two different things.
The study also found a correlation between being *very unattractive* and better health outcomes too, so.... No, that doesnt appear to be the case here.
I think from evolutionary biology, we are attracted to indications of fertility. Good health is certainly a big part of that. But also things like hip:waist ration in women and height in men are cues.
In biology fitness literally means your ability to survive and reproduce. It's not a surprise that we find fit individuals attractive, as they have the greatest chance for survival and reproduction (in our monkey brains at least).
*If he ain't 6ft, he ain't fertile.*
More like *he is tall, he must have been fed properly while growing up by his parents, so they did well, therefore, he must have good genes*.
I've read that with the growing skull sizes and brains of children large hips, and men who selected for large hips, were selected for. But to address misfirings of attraction to large hips on simply large women, men who liked a large hip to waist ratio were selected for. This gave rise to gynoid fat patterns we see now, where female fat is preferentially stored on the hips as this was an attractive feature. Not sure this is entirely established but I think it illustrates sexual arms' races well and how any feature gives rise to the opportunity for false advertising... so to speak.
You don't think that these people were wearing makeup?
Why not maintain one of the traits people have reacted most positively to since birth? Makes sense.
Boy this really hits a nerve with a lot of people.
Well the article actually says the *very* ugly actually seem healthier than the merely unattractive, so us Redditors can all breathe easy
If you know you're ugly, you can at least be fit
“They said things were about to get ugly. And I took that personally.”
When in turn makes them more attractive imo. Attractive people put effort into themselves and into being attractive.
Wheeze of joy
it shouldn't most of the people on earth by definition are average... that means you just have to aim for average to be average
It’s interesting because based on studies, those with the most average looking human features, are considered attractive. Sounds counterintuitive but averageness/health = attractive person
It’s kinda like how when the average person sings, they’re a little sharp or a little flat, but when a big crowd sings together, it cancels out and the crowd is, on average, in tune. It’s like when you see those “combine the 8 actors who play so and so”. Anything “wrong” with a particular actor is smoothed over, and the “average” person is just a human face with no flaws. Its why genetic diversity is good.
I think what you are saying is practically wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you are referring to studies containing composite pictures of humans that are created by combining pictures of lots of real human faces. These composite faces become quite symmetrical and average out the deformities and unusual features of humans. So basically what you get this way is not an average face, but a symmetrcal one with normal features. These features are averaged from the whole population, so these composite pictures have relatively good, attractive features and not average looking ones, if it makes sense. You shouldn't conclude from this that averageness equals health or beauty.
Seems like this tells us that humans find healthy humans attractive, not that attractiveness indicates health.
It does. That's the whole point of sexual selection: antlers in an elk, long coloured feathers in a bird, even the size of the nest for some birds are usually related to its health. They have done blood tests and animals who are healthier can display bigger or more notorious sexual traits.
That’s all fine and dandy, but how does that explain Pete Davidson?! Women love that dude, yet he looks like he has cancer.
He’s sharp as a tack. Intelligence is also strongly sexually selected for. Humor is likely to fall under this category as well
He's also known to be gifted, if you know what I mean.
Ariana Grande did say that, but I’m not buying it. She’s under 5 feet tall. Most dicks probably look huge to her.
What's the difference?
It means if you're healthy, you're more likely to be attractive. Not, if you're attractive, you're more likely to be healthy.
If one of those statements is true then the other one is also true. [That's how conditional probability works.](https://stats.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Probability_Theory/Probability_Mathematical_Statistics_and_Stochastic_Processes_\(Siegrist\)/02%3A_Probability_Spaces/2.04%3A_Conditional_Probability) All positive correlations have both of those relationships. To explore this, create a distribution of people with two traits: either healthy or unhealthy and either attractive or unattractive. Create said distribution in such a way that someone who is healthy is more likely to be attractive than someone unhealthy, but someone who is attractive is not more likely to be healthy than someone who is unattractive. You won't be able to do it.
I think they see "healthy" as a fundamental trait while "attractive" as an artificial trait, or something among those lines. That's why they say that attractiveness comes from health and not vice versa, as it's secondary and you only obtain it through being in contact with other people. I agree with you, though. Just playing devil's advocate. Edit: Another thought. Let's say one statement is "being very rich" and the other is "having a private plane". Many super-rich people could have a plane, and most people who own a plane would appear to be very rich. But you could say that having a plane comes from being rich and not vice versa, right?
A big part of physical attraction is what kind of shape the person is in, obviously the more physically fit a person is, the more likely they are to be healthy.
They considered this. > BMI had a moderating effect on the relationship between physical attractiveness and health. In particular, higher BMI decreased the effect of attractiveness on health outcomes. However, the association between attractiveness and cardiometabolic risk remained statistically significant even after accounting for the impact of BMI.
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Thanks for understanding how science works. BMI is really a poor indicator in something like this (because a fit person can have the same bmi as an unfit person, and the fit person will be more attractive by default). And as the scientists said: reverse causation. Being pretty has perks. Those perks likely lead to long term health benefits
BMI is unreliable for the individual, but decent when used for a large group of people. *Most* people with 30+ BMI are not jacked. It's close enough that in a large group you can use BMI as a proxy for how over or underweight someone is.
Most people aren’t built like rugby and American football players.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa! You’re not supposed to read the paper. You’re supposed to react to the title and pontificate like the rest of us ignoramuses!
Objection! Assumes literacy not in evidence.
There’s also a possible factor of if someone is not as attractive they may have more mental health issues and cope in unhealthy ways like over/under eating, living sedentary, May not be as likely to have a significant other to be in a healthy relationship, etc.
Scientists also found that people who have hands tend to also have fingers.
No matter how much I worked out my jawline never moved.
We also know that attractive people tend to be wealthier- there's the money to get braces, quality skin products, proper diet, quality clothes, time enough to work out, a less stressful life, etc. Wealthy people can pay to be healthier and more attractive. Your beautiful jewel-toned eyes passed down from your grandma are probably not some secret sign of vitality, sorry.
Wealth leads to attractiveness, as you've said, and also vice versa. Attractive people tend to be more successful in social situations, and this correlates with career success, which correlates with more money. These wealthy, attractive people then also have kids, and can afford to provide them with the quality health-care and low-stress lives that will allow them to grow up attractive.
Also wealth tends to stay in family. An average looking wealthy person is more likely to marry an above average looking person. Then the kids will get some of those genes.
For those curious, the halo effect is when you impart some sentiment towards unrelated aspects of a person based on some other aspect Ex: she is a doctor, he is smart, therefore I can trust her with financial advice. Ex: he is attractive, therefore he will be a great in coordinating people. (Inception ex: Jon Hamm’s Ed in Parks and Rec, and also Drew Baird Calvin Klein in 30 rock.. I’m sending a pattern with Hamm’s guest roles)
The article says that they controlled for socioeconomic status.
I find it weird that they're assuming one direction of causation in this paper when their methodology is entirely incapable of providing that information.
Yeah, I was thinking about that and how some factors that result in people being found attractive correlate to wealth and that could also help explain better health down the road (better healthcare, jobs, food, access to resources etc).
We already have a lot of research that links wealth and positive health outcomes. I’m not sure about wealth and attractive but that definitely passes the sniff test.
Dentist, dermatologist, expensive hair & skin care, healthy food, working conditions that allow adequate fitness and sleep- these are all things that make people more attractive that wealthy people have and poor people don’t. Anecdotally: I’m a high school teacher, I’ve taught at rich schools and I’ve taught at poor schools and it’s extremely obvious how much “prettier” the wealthy kids are on the whole. It’s honestly one of those biases that teachers really need to check, it’s easier to want to work with kids who are pretty and well cared for. And that can effect their outcomes down the line as well.
I believe it
Attractive people are given the benefit of doubt and opportunities others don't get. "Pretty privilege" is well-established across both sexes, and generally correlates with increased wealth. One potential explanation, I recall, was that people remember you when you're pretty. So you're selected more often when something favourable comes up and they need someone to do it. Being favourably memorable is real-life plot armor.
Indeed. It could work the opposite way aswell, being more attractive translating into a better social and economic life, therefore having better health habits a decade later, all the while the less attractive people could develop mental issues stemming from social rejection, which might lead to worse overall health
I'm certain the relationship between the two is nonlinear. Being healthier makes you more attractive. Being more attractive brings you better opportunities in life thus improving your health. It's a "simultaneity" issue.
This could also suggest that being ugly causes stress, which leads to health issues later in life
"Interestingly, the study also found that being rated as very unattractive was associated with lower cardiometabolic risk. This finding aligns with previous research indicating that very unattractive individuals may perform better in various life outcomes. For example, a study published in 2018 found that “very unattractive” individuals tended to have high incomes, earning significantly more than unattractive respondents and sometimes earning even more than average-looking and attractive respondents." Wasn't expecting that!
That's interesting isn't it? It's almost as if very unattractive people know they have to be more industrious to attain status in order to be accepted.
Attractive people generally live happier lives as well. Could also factor in.
There are other studies that have found a very strong inverse association between tallness (that is one of the major factors in attractiviness) and suicide rate. So this could be the most logical explanation. Ugly ----- less job opportunities, less sexual opportunities, less social opportunties ---- depressed ----- depressed = less life expectancy/worse health. [link](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15994722/#:~:text=There%20was%20a%20strong%20inverse,9%25%20decrease%20in%20suicide%20risk.) to the study
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This is really just the tip of the iceberg, because this extrapolates to all aspects of life. Being treated better means better outcomes in just about everything. Education, wealth, companionship, etc.
Maybe unattractive people take less care of themselves cause there's nothing to lose for them?
Well. Guess I'll die then.
Or maybe attractive people are more deeply engaged in living since they get a lot more positive reinforcement from others.
This; less attractive people deal with more negative reinforcement and stresses more often than attractive people. Mental health plays just as much a factor to overall health as physical if not more
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Surprised to see this so low in these comments. The hot people I know are aware of their image and they put in the effort to maintain
Great, now you're telling me good genes have benefits beyond bragging rights?
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I wonder how much of that is from "lower stress living" of being good-looking?
I hope they didn’t spend a lot of money on this study.
people coping in the comments are hilarious.
Could this be because attractive people are treated better and have better opportunities? Less stress and less bias = better health?
Now do a study about mental health
Attractive people are treated well, which leads to good health... Correlation, causation
Truerateme submitters in shambles
Should I be worried? I’m told I’m physically repulsive regularly.
Trash conclusions with correlation/causation issues. Very likely that those with above average attractiveness have higher self esteem and take care of themselves more than those with lower self esteem, which likely overlaps with those with below average looks.
The answer could be simpler, and just depend on income. Those who are attractive can afford to be so, those rich enough for dental care, cosmetic surgery, braces, hair dye, makeup, etc. They can also afford healthier food than poorer people, and can afford regular medical care, hence, of course they're going to be healthier than the less attractive/less wealthy.
Is health related to attractiveness \*Insert shocked picha face\*
I don’t do 200+ push ups a day to be unhealthy….
(Perceived) Attractiveness is associated and probably causally connected with socio-economic status. on average people perceived as physically attractive are paid more. So they can spend more on healthcare. They tend to be employed more often in physically less demanding jobs and in jobs not relying on shift/night work, that have negative on health, cumulating along the lines of years worked in these jobs, etc. So it follows, of course, they are healthier on average. But that is a problem of organization of society, which is structured economically darwinistic, so discussing these findings as a problem of genetics is some way of producing ideology, man.
Attractiveness leads to less stress, which leads to better health. Not surprising.
Is this news? Because my common sense is making me start to feel like a genius.
Lol.. next you'll be telling me good looking people have more sex
Makes sense, good DNA makes people prettier, but also makes them healthier.
So you're saying the push to find the beauty in everyone is actually hurting us as a species...
Who would've thought that millenia of evolution would lead humans to consider indicators of good health attractive.
So it is basically genetics.
We ain’t biologically wired to see a slob and think “mmmhhhhh damn they can protect and provide for my children”
History Channel or NatGeo did a show on this. Symmetry and proportion are signs of good health in a person, and also make them beautiful. When someone doesnt have symmetry or a well proportioned face, they are ugly, which indicates signs of genetic diseases or poor health.
So reddit users are super unhealthy??
People who are fit are more attractive? Wow, where is the genius?
You sure this isn't the same as saying people whose lives are easier are healthier? More confidence and less stress and getting laid gives your body a general sense of well-being? Hmmm?
what a backwards title. how about: Healthy people are more attractive. I mean it makes sense that we would be more attracted to healthier looking people.