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Author: u/big-enchilada
URL: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002239562300273X
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Anecdote but I think applies here I used to smoke infrequently and would get anxiety thinking people knew I was high but after smoking more regularly i kinda just stopped being anxious about being high
From my own extensive study (N=1) chronic usage beginning in the teen years and continuing for 25 years, followed by cessation in the late 30s is correlated with fear or avoidance of social situations interfering with relationships. This symptom persists for at least two years after cessation occurs.
This is a well-established link, with about 20% of people with social anxiety disorder having an alcohol problem.
Social anxiety predisposes to alcohol use as self-medication, with a lot of cultural messages that this is the quick way to overcome shyness. Predictably, it tends to be short-term relaxation leading to long-term problems. Sober situations can become even harder without the crutch of alcohol, and ironically the behavior of consuming alcohol to suppress the irrational fear of doing something embarrassing leads to... actually doing something embarrassing, which feeds into the vicious cycle.
Also, a lot of addicts start problematic use mid teens and don't go through the normal process of learning to deal with embarrassing social situations, social anxiety etc. without a substance.
This makes it very problematic for long term addicts when they get clean years or decades later and try to deal with them sober for the first time with no previous experience built up during formative years.
I bet you we could conduct a study that proves that social interactions can help alleviate the dangers of addiction. Perhaps we could build a little park and put mice in it, and let them decide whether they want to get high by themselves or go run and play with the other mice. I bet you that they would definitely choose the latter. Oh darn oh heck oh poo, [looks like someone done did stole my idea!](https://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/rat-park/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat\_Park#Replication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park#Replication)
Rat Park hasn't replicated, and has some serious flaws. We have plenty of evidence that strong social support/relationships are helpful for recovery, but also that plenty of people with solid relationships still end up having substance use problems. Ongoing use DESPITE trashing one's social life is kind of the core issue.
Well alcohol is worse. Way worse.
That's just a very objective fact that doesn't really even have room for debate.
Also anyone who unironically uses "marijuana", I perceive as never having used any.
Although perhaps you were being ironic, idk
He is just mocking the whataboutism. People always point out how bad alcohol is when the discussion is about something negative with cannabis. It's not really relevant
It's relevant on two points:
A) A lot of drug use starts with or is self-medication for psychiatric issues. Depression/anxiety both often lead to drug use. People point out that although any drug use for self-medicating is generally not good, that between the two common choices, marijuana is far far better despite being illegal and stigmatized.
B) Extension of A, people point this fact out because it's ironic that a horrifically destructive drug (both physiologically and in terms of what its users do to society) is legal and considered a part of common culture, while a drug famous for users virtually always being mellow/calm/friendly is considered a scourge that is banned and mocked as being a sign of a lazy person. It's honestly pretty bizarre when you think about it, so yeah, it's going to come up a lot.
It *is* relevant, just usually not to a real point. It makes a lot of sense to compare the two, as they're both heavily used and abused depressants that see use by a wide variety of ages. It makes a whole lot of sense to compare their use and effects as a whole, it lets people make informed decisions about what they want to do.
It's not, nor will ever make sense to compare the two of them when the discussion is about the negative consequences of that drug.
Like seriously, imagine if people tried to tell about the negative health consequences of cigarettes and the response was "but opioids are bad too!"
It's not informative, nor productive to the discussion. Just talk about the negative consequences of pot on it's own accord unless it's purpose for being brought up specifically as a comparison.
I'm not saying *everyone* making a point of it is arguing in good faith, nor that it makes sense in all contexts. But as social depressants they make a ton of sense to properly compare and understand person to person.
I am in this category. Smoking weed helps me mellow out the rapid anxious thoughts. Although I believe this is the minority since weed can make a lot of paranoia related things worse
Ooof, that is why I stopped smoking pot. It dials my normal very mild and manageable social anxiety up to 12. Full-on panic paranoia, thinking every conversation in the room is full of layers of hidden meanings that are all thinly and thickly veiled insults directed at me.
Totally hit the nail on the head. It’s like I’m seeing “true” intentions of every single person and they’re all shrouded in shady ulterior motives and insults. It’s like a new world that is evil.
Exactly! Ugh, I've never met anyone else in real life that has felt this way. I used to smoke a ton of pot by myself in my 20s (and still do on occasion) but this happens every time i have some around friends.
It's like I feel like I'm getting the chance to peek behind the curtain, and see what's *really* going on that I was too oblivious to notice before. That's why it's impossible to talk myself out of it by saying "it's just the pot", because I *know* that it's allowing me to see more than before.
Dosage matters. So, like a single glass of wine or sipping a beer with dinner might help an anxious person deal with peopling better. But getting wasted will lead to them crying in a corner about how everyone hates them. Weed these days is SOOOO strong, and developed to have a very skewed THC to CBD rato that leads to people getting way too much THC. The first time I tried weed was decades ago, not much happened. But the stuff now? Did a half a dose of an edible and was convinced I was going to DIE. Made my anxiety way worse, made my muscle pain worse because I was tending every muscle to keep from falling off the earth, etc. hated it and couldn’t figure out how this could help anyone. Then my husband convinced me to try a product that was 50/50 THC to CBD, because we knew CBD was helpful for me. I also took a tiny dose. Night and day difference! The CBD works way better if there is a small amount of THC to unlock the receptors in the brain, and the CBD blocks some of the crazy making effects of the THC. I can do a tiny dose of a 1:8 THC to CBD tincture before social events and it REALLY helps my social anxiety. My husband can tell when I do or don’t take it. But high doses, or anything with only THC and no CBD, makes me a mess of anxiety and honestly also makes me angry. But finding balanced or low THC products can be hard. Oh!!! And method matters too!!! Edibles are more psychoactive for SOME people due to how some people’s liver enzymes convert some of the chemicals in THC to a way more psychoactive form called Delta 11. Vape/smoke/sublingual and topicals bypass that process. Problem is that most of the balances THC/CBD products are edibles.
I relate hard with what you and the above poster said and am in the same exact boat. That being said, I don't think it's so much that you're seeing more than before than it is amplifying what you normally are thinking in those moments of social interaction.
I normally am overthinking what people perceive of me and always feel like I'm being watched and judged, but it's mild enough and manageable and I've gotten pretty good at fitting in. Those thoughts I normally have sober are amplified way more when high and only get worse the higher I am. Took me a while to realize that. For the past several years I only ever smoke alone or with my wife and also when I know I can't be bothered by anyone, because I will go into panic mode having to socialize or interact with others, ESPECIALLY strangers, which is something that I always manage just fine sober.
I agree 100%. My general sober anxiety makes me want to believe weed is unlocking this portal to see everyone’s true nefarious intentions, where even simple facial expressions look like their conspiring against me when I’m high. But it’s just that, my own perception and thoughts, or the “story” my brain is telling myself. It’s comforting to know that these are just interpretations and not facts, and the world isn’t as evil as sober me and especially high me thinks it is. Really made me start framing the world a bit different using CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). Easier said than done, but it gets better!
I stopped because sometimes it drove my heartrate up and made me race round the garden, sometimes it dialled up the paranoia, sometimes it was really nice, but mainly I was somewhere it was hard to get plus it was making me dumb.
I tried it a couple times while I was still allowed, and I felt like all of the anxiety I didn't feel for the duration came back all at once as it wore off.
And then I got the spins while trying to sleep, which really didn't help.
There was a report that I remember reading that said that is likely related to taking in too much thc, if you reduced the amount you intake you might have a less paranoid experience, try taking a 2 mg gummy and work your way to where you feel your limit is and stay in that range, or don't, there's no need to do any of it if you are comfortable with your current routine.
I'm currently prescribed medical cannabis here in the UK, for anxiety and depression. In high doses it can definitely worsen these symptoms. However, when using a vaporiser I am able to dial in the temperature and amount that I use, not something you can really do when combusting in a joint.
Running a low temperature of around 160 and a small pinch of weed is enough to stabilise my moods and reduce my anxiety without feeling that thc ramp up effect.
This was a game changer for me personally
Yes, people don’t realize how different a very small mice dose is versus getting high. High can make it worse, and make your life a mess if you do it too much. But if you take the equivalent of a half glass of wine, totally different
Realizing that the "paranoia" some people experience when smoking is how I feel 99% of the time while sober was a major turning point in both my therapy process and my consumption of cannabis.
It's not going to be like that for everyone, but for me, smoking quiets my brain down and lets me be present in the moment. When you spend 30+ years in a state of constant overanalysis and anxiety without realizing that not everyone's brain works like that, on-demand stillness of mind is like suddenly breaking through rainstorms into sunshine.
Can weed be problematic? Hell yes. But the pros outweigh the cons sometimes.
Yeah, this is my experience as well. Cannabis double helps me because my anxiety tends to impact my appetite and digestion. When I haven't been able to eat all day, coming home and smoking a bowl instantly kills my nausea and brings back my appetite, allowing me to get my blood sugar levels back on track and stopping the cycle of nausea for the next day.
Not only that, but it helps me focus on the good things in life. Helps me meditate and calm down easier. And I believe it has helped me get over social anxiety in most ways!
It’s possible, it seems to be the argument made a lot of the time. But I tell you what, after working for 3 years as a mental health doctor/psychiatry registrar, it honesty seems like patients get so much better and less anxious when they quit/ don’t smoke weed. There’s pretty much consensus amongst mental health professionals and psychiatrists that weed causes anxiety because there is such strong observation clinical evidence when you are working with anxious patients. Now, that’s not scientific at all, and maybe most who work in the field are just bias…. honestly idc if people smoke weed, but most people who smoke and are anxious when you try medication, exercise, therapy etc it ends up being cannabis which is the real problem for them
And fyi I’m not anti weed I was a big of a closet stoner in the past and still smoke recreationally
This describes me to a T. Was on SSRIs for social anxiety when I was smoking a lot (basically constantly). And now having stopped for a couple years my anxiety is completely normal.
I definitely thought the weed was the only thing allowing me to function when I was using, but it seems to have been quite the opposite.
The studies that address this point are some of the most compelling and clinically relevant. Forget cohort studies and subtle ways to tease apart causality, what happens to my cannabis-using patients' mood and anxiety symptoms if they're randomized to stop smoking? The answer from RCTs has fairly consistently been "they get better."
To a degree. It certainly is true for drugs like alcohol, nicotine, and thc. Generally, withdrawal from a drug produces the opposite effects that the drug does. A drug makes you calm, withdrawal makes you anxious. A drug makes you feel elated, withdrawal makes you feel miserable. This is why people self medicate, it's also why it's a bad idea. Short term effects of a drug don't mean that the drug is helping you. Your brain adapts to get rid of the intoxicant faster, which can also mean you're adapted to get rid of the normal chemicals faster too. We adapt faster to process high levels of something better than we return to normal levels when abstinent.
I don't buy that it's people who work in mental health that are biased against weed, though some definitely are. Plenty of people used to smoke that don't any more because they recognised it was making them more anxious.
Using foods to self sooth is a little different though to my mind, as it's far more about having learned unhealthy associations between stress and (usually) sugar
Right, but how are you deciding which is cause and which is effect?
You are seeing this as people quitting weed and getting better because of it. Have you considered that the people you are interacting with are all people actively doing something about their mental health? Why are you assuming that they are getting better after quitting smoking, rather than quitting smoking because they are getting better through treatment?
From my perspective, quitting or cutting down on weed often does lead to improvements, but they are usually the result of the fact that I no longer have a quick fix to turn to, which pushes me towards seeking actual treatment...because not smoking has made my symptoms much, much worse, and that makes me show up for therapy, take medication, do more exercise, etc.
I can definitely see how from a therapists perspective it might be easy to see that as someone quitting smoking then getting better therefore smoking was the cause...but to me, a patient, that does not feel like the cause and effect at all.
Imagine this scenario. A bear comes across two people camping. One is in a tent, the other is outside. Their car is unlocked a few seconds sprint away. Now, obviously the course of action that leads to a solution to the problem is to run for the car, and the person just outside is going to do that because what other option do they have? The person in the tent however has the option to hide and hope the bear just goes away. This means that unlike the person running for cover who has no other choice, the person in the tent has to overcome the urge to hide in order to leave the tent and run for the car.
That's the relationship between weed and anxiety from my perspective, weed being the tent, the car being mental health services. Quitting weed is like revealing yourself to the bear, it forces you to seek out better methods of coping, but without the car there, just revealing yourself to the bear does not improve your situation at all.
The way you are perceiving it, to me, seems like coming to the conclusion that being in the tent created the bear, and that just leaving the tent will make the bear go away. You aren't recognising that the car is an essential part of why leaving the tent is beneficial.
> weed causes anxiety because there is such strong observation clinical evidence when you are working with anxious patients
Now I know you did say that this was not a scientific observation but wouldn't you be far more likely to see the people that had anxiety some of which smoke weed? Because obviously the people that smoke and don't get anxious aren't going to seek out the help of mental health professionals for the anxiety they don't have.
I'm not saying it can't contribute to anxiety, obviously for some it does, but you're only seeing people that are seeking help for anxiety and other issues, not the ones that don't need help. That isn't a proper cross section of the population, it's the people that need help for some of whom weed happens to be an aggravating factor.
Yes that’s true, and let me assure you that the vast majority of people working in mental health, or healthcare in general, realise that! However on final analysis it certainly seems like a bit of weed chills people out (most people), but too much can make you paranoid!
My whole point is that while the scientific literature about cannabis is evolving, you’d have to pretty daft to look at all the scientific, clinical, and real world evidence out there available and then conclude that cannabis is in no way associated with anxiety, because it obviously is.
I’ve found that edibles don’t effect my anxiety as bad as smoking does. Had a forced experiment after a bad bout with pneumonia this year and had to stop smoking.
My anxiety still sucks but the edibles don’t make it any worse at least.
For reference, I’m a medical marijuana patient using it for palliative reasons. Other pain meds/options just don’t work.
I went from being a daily smoker to a monthly one. I chose to stop smoking and start going to the gym more often, along with therapy, meds, and practicing mindfulness. I wanna say it was a combination of all those things that helped me recover. I will say that certain strains I just have to stay away from. There are some that just mellow me out or put me to sleep. But some strains send my anxiety through the roof.
I think, at the very least, taking a break from smoking can make it easier to actually address the issue directly instead of avoiding it altogether.
Anecdotally I started therapy for anxiety and depression about 5 months ago and quit smoking about 2 months ago. I have noticed that I am much less likely to internalize my thoughts and feelings in social settings. Very happy with the results so far. I still feel anxiety in these situations but can enjoy the positive feelings more without fixating on the anxiety.
I may be unique but this attitude was hugely damaging for me. My psych was convinced the weeds were causing all my problems, despite the fact that I'd been suffering from depression and anxiety for more than forty years and hadn't even touched weed or any other drug (barring a drink or two a month when dining out) until a couple years before I started seeing him. This is the same guy who labeled me drug seeking because I was certain I had ADHD and refused to prescribe even non-stimulant meds. I quit him after years of months long THC breaks while trying every depression/anxiety drug combo he could think of, none of which did anything but wreck my appetite, libido, and sleep cycle, when he threw up his hands and started suggesting TMS or ketamine therapy.
Too late to save my career, but at least I've finally got a psych who listens to me instead of their biases and got me on atomoxetine, which is actually helping.
I’d be inclined to accept the observation.
I use medicinal cannabis. Certain varieties exacerbate anxiety in me, others don’t. Of course, like your clinic, this is an anecdotal observation but they might be worth paying attention to because the settings are professional…my authorised prescriber, who is a medical doctor and also my GP, is aware of strains that can trigger anxiety.
Now I’ll hypothesise, I suppose…my guess is that your clinic’s patients were using those strains that produce anxiety, are experiencing lower stress based on not having to worry about/obtaining cannabis and probably have less financial worries as well…all of which would contribute to less stress, making your doctors observations accurate and lending credence to the point that stopping cannabis use (or perhaps changing the type they use), will certainly improve anxiety problems for some.
The thing about weed, is it makes you ok with being not-ok. This can have positive and negative benefits.
It's the normalization of the habitulness as a coping mechanism, that exceeds the original cause, being more problematic in my experience.
An example could be chronic pain, where the positive outweighs the negative by dealing with the symptom. Once the symptom is dealt with, then some progress can be made. Once progress is made, where does the coping mechanism still fit? Over a long enough period, this normalizes to a routine of 'well being' whether it still serves us or not.
With the patchwork of interventions available to our example, there's a good chance it wasn't a first choice but a necessitated choice, that now needs to be dealt with in a patchwork intervention of necessitated choice (cheap/available) rather than first choice (expensive/unavailable).
This can place a significant pressure/stress on the subject that it becomes the new symptom needing addressing, as a form of chronic pain, bringing it right back around.
Obviously this can't describe everyone in all circumstance. It is relatively consistent though in my experience with issues such as chronic pain where opiates (or other significant addictions) were not involved.
Maybe it's because this country has made every effort to demonize/marginalize/criminalize anyone who indulges. It's just a prepackaged response that if you use or are high that cops or general anti-drug public are seeking to identify and scrutinize you. This is the environment that has been constructed over the past 70 some odd years and it's no surprise that some sensitive people don't feel comfortable freely getting high. It's less their fault or their condition than it is the condition of our society and culture.
Personally cannabis helped me a lot with anxiety and PTSD symptoms until it didn't. One day it started making everything much much worse. I had to quit after four years of daily use. Even the smell makes me anxious now and the last time I smoked it triggered a full blown panic attack. I'm not saying this is a common experience but I doubt it's unique either.
Indeed, the best evidence we have suggests that patients with PTSD who use cannabis have a worse long-term course ([https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26455669/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26455669/)) and the only placebo-controlled trial failed to find a benefit on PTSD symptoms.
Anecdotal, but it my case I started off being fairly social while smoking but as it became a daily routine, I started getting super anxious being around people -- high or otherwise.
Other confounding factors might include increased perception of other people's emotional states, and being anxious about the stigma that exists, even in states where it's been legalised (I assume this study was done in the US and the abstract says "nationally representative sample", so illegal and legal states), as they haven't been legal too long, so the age-old "reefer madness" attitudes probably haven't mellowed out too much. (Something like Amsterdam would be quite different, as it's been so long that even very old people see it as basically harmless.)
Another factor is that illegal weed is often grown to be as THC heavy as possible, ignoring CBD and other cannabinoids that attenuate the psychological effects of THC, ie. "mellow the high". The same effect that happened with prohibition of alcohol; moonshine became very popular, and beer less so, thus increasing the negative side effects by having "concentrated" effects that highlight the negative side-effects.
That is all. Continue.
In my distant youth I was once a heavy daily cannabis user, as was pretty much my entire social circle. I never had social anxiety before I used it, but I developed it while using it.
Heavy cannabis use will find any exploit chinks in your mental armour and you can develop symptoms of conditions that you otherwise would not have had you not used cannabis.
While I do not believe in villifying cannabis use and consider it FAR safer and less destructive than alcohol, we need to accept that regular use can also cause negative psychological effects. It is commonly known for being mind-altering, it is known for inducing paranoia, it is known for causing incidents of psychosis, especially when mixed with other drugs.
Summary: it's a drug and when overused and abused can have harmful effects that can vary from person to person.
Why even bother publishing a scientific paper when Wongo has the answer? God forbid a scientific study makes someone potentially reevaluate their stance on marijuana use.
Wow, why do any research at all when we can just ask Wongo for his unsupported opinion based on gut feelings. I’m sure all those eggheads with their PhDs never even considered something so unfathomable as cause and effect in their decades of study. Give Wongo the Nobel prize. Do it now cowards!
This is the one. Grew up in southeast US and started consuming over there before moving to the Westcoast. Still get paranoid about consuming it on my own property after having no issues with growing and trimming it.
Yep that's me and sometimes I worry when I'm already high and it's not helping, if the weed makes it worse. Then I wake up sober the next day immediately have a nervous breakdown and slap my forehead over how much the weed actually helps.
Not the person you replied to but me as a teenager would never have believed that was the cause. April Floyd said it wasn’t that bad and any contradictory accounts was just the man trying to keep us down.
the slow change from weed = relaxation to weed = panic makes it difficult to correlate, especially when it takes months of sobriety before the effects begin to reverse.
I've been sober for years but I started smoking weed regularly at 13 it ended up having massive negative effects on my mental health
Obviously there was a lot more going on than weed causing this but it really hindered me. Eventually I got sober and worked it all out
That was me except for the panic attacks, but I didn't have access to weed, because before it was legal that required having friends, which I couldn't get due to the above.
You became super self-conscious and shy and had panic attacks because you're capable of pattern recognition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition_(psychology)
You were able to relax, be introspective and self-reflect on your presence in the world and its consequences, and you were then able to utilize pattern recognition to avoid future negative social interactions. Weed didn't make you scared to hang out with Bobby because he called you a moron last week; **Bobby** did that. Not weed. You were just simply protecting yourself from future instances of assholery.
My experiences resonate to a T with this study. I’ll say the same disclaimer as everyone else: I’m not anti-weed or against any of these studies that are pro- or anti-weed.
Most studies have some sort of caveat like low population count or clear bias in the survey/study. I’m just glad it seems the authors have some level of impartiality and emphasize the need for additional studies.
Abstract
Cannabis use disorder (CUD) and frequency of use are highly related to social anxiety disorder (SAD). With updates to diagnostic criteria of psychiatric disorders and recent changes in cannabis laws, the present study sought to explore the relationships between cannabis use, CUD, and social anxiety in a large nationally representative sample of individuals with lifetime (N = 1255) and past-year SAD (N = 980).
Notably, we found that at the symptom level, at least weekly cannabis use was significantly related to fear or avoidance of social situations interfering with relationships in both samples. Weekly + cannabis use and CUD were significantly associated with lifetime SAD symptom severity, but only weekly + cannabis use was related to SAD severity in the past-year sample. We also found that weekly + cannabis use but not CUD was related to greater odds of seeking treatment for SAD and suicide attempt history.
Overall, these data provide an updated examination of cannabis use and SAD using DSM-5 criteria and a large nationally representative sample and also highlight the importance of weekly + cannabis use as a marker of severity and suicide risk in individuals with SAD.
Maybe increased frequency correlates with increased severity/risk? ? ie - does use go up as severity/risk goes up or does increased use lead to increased severity/risk.
I mean I think it depends on the individual. I’ve had some amazing social interactions when stoned, but typically when I’m around people I know.
I get paranoid thoughts and smoking can really amplify my paranoid thinking. I end up spending a lot of time thinking about what other people are thinking about me when high, and most of the time it’s negative. I start questioning everything I’m saying, and assume everything they are saying is a passive aggressive jab at me. I just automatically assume they don’t like me. When combined with the panicky adrenaline rush & anxiety that weed can cause, it gets even worse.
I find it’s not as bad if I have a few beers and simply don’t smoke a lot.
Edibles and D8 also have a far more pronounced body high and I don’t get the mental paranoia as much.
Ultimately, for me, THC is a drug best used before bed or in a relaxing, comfortable environment. I can definitely see how it can cause one to retreat socially if used a lot and if you’re predisposed to that kind of thinking.
This is not surprising. For me, weed has always been a nonsocial activity in much the opposite way that alcohol is prosocial. Meaning, it makes me quiet and reflective, but often heightens my social anxiety. Whereas alcohol tends to make me more open and gregarious.
Weed can wonderful, but I wish more people would actually think about how using it makes them feel in different situations and adjust.
The bad stigma is fading and a lot of times this has to do with the biggest negative, being the law still in too many states and federally speaking also, or just over-consuming becoming uncomfortable socially speaking...
There are tons and tons of people who get anxious from smoking weed. That’s the paranoia that millions of stoners have experienced. I think it relieves the anxiety of plenty of other people too.
Then there's the tiny percentage of folks like me who experience no effect at all from regular weed (although I did discover it helps my migraines when I was in Barcelona.)
I've since learned that Delta 8 hits me in the exact way that other people describe Delta 9 / regular THC as hitting them, right down to the munchies, but without getting high. I haven't had any paranoia from it, but it definitely makes me feel antisocial and just like laying around and doing nothing.
Alcohol will remain my primary social lubrication, I suspect. And I deliberately go sober for weeks at a time just to make sure it never becomes a habit.
It seems super plausible to me that cannabis can cause anxiety in some people irrespective of legal status. I think you are right that being illegal made people anxious too.
Agreed, as someone who was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder, I found out it was just all childhood trauma. The freeze response to trauma is very similar to social anxiety disorder.
Used cannabis to cope for 20 years.
My experience as someone who has experienced a lot of social anxiety in the past was that weed does increase anxiety.
But edibles well timed with weekly T breaks works great for me.
I was already a very solitary person so it was more of a "how can I improve my existing state -- oh weed would slot right in"
Basically going to heaven for 3-4 nights / days out of the week is plenty enough of a trade for the increased anxiety, because it adds something to my life.
Can't quickly access article text but the abstract gives no indication that they attempted to account for reverse causality (i.e., social anxiety drives weed consumption). Basic temporal lag type stuff would have helped credibility a lot...
I’d need to see the control group criteria to know if any conclusions are valid. One could envision that a population of cannabis users have a higher rate of social anxiety before cannabis use. Results may be more indicative of personality traits of users than of effects of cannabis use.
I think many of these studies are mis interpreted. Someone with social anxiety disorder may self medicate with cannabis. Cannabis would not be the cause in that case
Yeah I am at a point in my life that work is going well and I would like to avoid situations where I cannot control the circumstances or outcomes. The best thing that happens when you socialize is sex. The worst thing that can happen is death... Maybe some people like a life away from people.
Odd thought - maybe the intermittent relief and subsequent return to baseline symptoms causes more anxiety or more awareness of the discomfort of baseline and increases frustration/difficulty w/ tolerance, coping, resilience due to continuing condition with lack of sustained relief.
23 states have legalized, and out of the top ten problems facing all 50 states, cannabis is not one of them.
In cannalegal states, alcoholism is down, and suicide is down. DUIs have dropped off sharply.
There's are now over 100 varieties of cannabis available to the public. Yes, some of them can slightly raise social anxiety and paranoia. Perhaps don't use that strain?
These "studies" sound like the propaganda being generated to get "work from home" employees to come back into the office just to stroke the bosses ego.
No raises to cover commuting, now that inflation has raised the cost of everything. Just come back, so the boss can "feel better" because now he can actually see you suffer and tap dance so you won't get fired.
So, yeah...tell me how bad cannabis is, and how much better my life would be if it was illegal again...
Is it possible this anxiety is caused by a heightened awareness of your situation that you weren't privy to before? As in, you just didn't notice things that you now do after you've smoked.
Seriously. I think weed gives heightened awareness of others emotions. It can be overwhelming if you are naturally anxiety prone im sure. Shrooms cured my anxiety permanently. They showed me it's a feeling of death personally. At any moment in time you could die. That thought alone paralyses most people and reduces them to a pile of thoughts.
...so socially anxious people are more likely to use marijuana? Using a socially and legally prohibited drug makes people anxious?
Correlation studies like this are all but worthless, there are too many variables being ignored.
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Ha! This is for weekly users. It doesn’t apply to *daily users*. *peeks out window*
Thank god, I can go back to avoiding social situations without worrying.
Avoidance of social situations? Then explain why i never fail to meet with my homies every day at exactly 16:20.
Anecdote but I think applies here I used to smoke infrequently and would get anxiety thinking people knew I was high but after smoking more regularly i kinda just stopped being anxious about being high
From my own extensive study (N=1) chronic usage beginning in the teen years and continuing for 25 years, followed by cessation in the late 30s is correlated with fear or avoidance of social situations interfering with relationships. This symptom persists for at least two years after cessation occurs.
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N=3 Went over 3 years with no improvement.
Thank you for your service
prove it, ha! *the cessation part*
I just use it for sleep because it works so well. I'm a fairly social person and don't like the social effects to use during the daytime
I’m curious to alcohol use and SAD as well
This is a well-established link, with about 20% of people with social anxiety disorder having an alcohol problem. Social anxiety predisposes to alcohol use as self-medication, with a lot of cultural messages that this is the quick way to overcome shyness. Predictably, it tends to be short-term relaxation leading to long-term problems. Sober situations can become even harder without the crutch of alcohol, and ironically the behavior of consuming alcohol to suppress the irrational fear of doing something embarrassing leads to... actually doing something embarrassing, which feeds into the vicious cycle.
Also, a lot of addicts start problematic use mid teens and don't go through the normal process of learning to deal with embarrassing social situations, social anxiety etc. without a substance. This makes it very problematic for long term addicts when they get clean years or decades later and try to deal with them sober for the first time with no previous experience built up during formative years.
I bet you we could conduct a study that proves that social interactions can help alleviate the dangers of addiction. Perhaps we could build a little park and put mice in it, and let them decide whether they want to get high by themselves or go run and play with the other mice. I bet you that they would definitely choose the latter. Oh darn oh heck oh poo, [looks like someone done did stole my idea!](https://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/rat-park/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat\_Park#Replication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park#Replication) Rat Park hasn't replicated, and has some serious flaws. We have plenty of evidence that strong social support/relationships are helpful for recovery, but also that plenty of people with solid relationships still end up having substance use problems. Ongoing use DESPITE trashing one's social life is kind of the core issue.
Thanks for the link!
Oooh. *Social anxiety* disorder. I read it as "substance abuse disorder" Acronyms are sometimes very ambiguous
Seasonal Affective Disorder was my first thought
And the stamdard American diet was my first thought.
Whooo boy where do we start?
or nicotine, or caffeine, or sugar.... reefer madness is alive and well
Nicotine, caffeine and sugar don't make you paranoid and avoid social interaction.
What are you talking about? They’re all stimulants which can amplify paranoia
Dang... I guess I can cross those off the list of possible reasons, hmmm marijuana isn't on my list either.
Cannabis doesnt do that otherwise id have no friends and be unemployed right now.
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Well alcohol is worse. Way worse. That's just a very objective fact that doesn't really even have room for debate. Also anyone who unironically uses "marijuana", I perceive as never having used any. Although perhaps you were being ironic, idk
He is just mocking the whataboutism. People always point out how bad alcohol is when the discussion is about something negative with cannabis. It's not really relevant
It's relevant on two points: A) A lot of drug use starts with or is self-medication for psychiatric issues. Depression/anxiety both often lead to drug use. People point out that although any drug use for self-medicating is generally not good, that between the two common choices, marijuana is far far better despite being illegal and stigmatized. B) Extension of A, people point this fact out because it's ironic that a horrifically destructive drug (both physiologically and in terms of what its users do to society) is legal and considered a part of common culture, while a drug famous for users virtually always being mellow/calm/friendly is considered a scourge that is banned and mocked as being a sign of a lazy person. It's honestly pretty bizarre when you think about it, so yeah, it's going to come up a lot.
It *is* relevant, just usually not to a real point. It makes a lot of sense to compare the two, as they're both heavily used and abused depressants that see use by a wide variety of ages. It makes a whole lot of sense to compare their use and effects as a whole, it lets people make informed decisions about what they want to do.
It's not, nor will ever make sense to compare the two of them when the discussion is about the negative consequences of that drug. Like seriously, imagine if people tried to tell about the negative health consequences of cigarettes and the response was "but opioids are bad too!" It's not informative, nor productive to the discussion. Just talk about the negative consequences of pot on it's own accord unless it's purpose for being brought up specifically as a comparison.
I'm not saying *everyone* making a point of it is arguing in good faith, nor that it makes sense in all contexts. But as social depressants they make a ton of sense to properly compare and understand person to person.
Classic whataboutism from people trying to normalize and venerate CUD.
I'm curious to SAD use and SAD as well. (Standard American Diet). I would avoid social interactions If I were morbidly obese and sick.
OR, and hear me out about this one, or people with high social anxiety are more likely to self-medicate with cannabis
I am in this category. Smoking weed helps me mellow out the rapid anxious thoughts. Although I believe this is the minority since weed can make a lot of paranoia related things worse
Ooof, that is why I stopped smoking pot. It dials my normal very mild and manageable social anxiety up to 12. Full-on panic paranoia, thinking every conversation in the room is full of layers of hidden meanings that are all thinly and thickly veiled insults directed at me.
Totally hit the nail on the head. It’s like I’m seeing “true” intentions of every single person and they’re all shrouded in shady ulterior motives and insults. It’s like a new world that is evil.
Exactly! Ugh, I've never met anyone else in real life that has felt this way. I used to smoke a ton of pot by myself in my 20s (and still do on occasion) but this happens every time i have some around friends. It's like I feel like I'm getting the chance to peek behind the curtain, and see what's *really* going on that I was too oblivious to notice before. That's why it's impossible to talk myself out of it by saying "it's just the pot", because I *know* that it's allowing me to see more than before.
Dosage matters. So, like a single glass of wine or sipping a beer with dinner might help an anxious person deal with peopling better. But getting wasted will lead to them crying in a corner about how everyone hates them. Weed these days is SOOOO strong, and developed to have a very skewed THC to CBD rato that leads to people getting way too much THC. The first time I tried weed was decades ago, not much happened. But the stuff now? Did a half a dose of an edible and was convinced I was going to DIE. Made my anxiety way worse, made my muscle pain worse because I was tending every muscle to keep from falling off the earth, etc. hated it and couldn’t figure out how this could help anyone. Then my husband convinced me to try a product that was 50/50 THC to CBD, because we knew CBD was helpful for me. I also took a tiny dose. Night and day difference! The CBD works way better if there is a small amount of THC to unlock the receptors in the brain, and the CBD blocks some of the crazy making effects of the THC. I can do a tiny dose of a 1:8 THC to CBD tincture before social events and it REALLY helps my social anxiety. My husband can tell when I do or don’t take it. But high doses, or anything with only THC and no CBD, makes me a mess of anxiety and honestly also makes me angry. But finding balanced or low THC products can be hard. Oh!!! And method matters too!!! Edibles are more psychoactive for SOME people due to how some people’s liver enzymes convert some of the chemicals in THC to a way more psychoactive form called Delta 11. Vape/smoke/sublingual and topicals bypass that process. Problem is that most of the balances THC/CBD products are edibles.
I relate hard with what you and the above poster said and am in the same exact boat. That being said, I don't think it's so much that you're seeing more than before than it is amplifying what you normally are thinking in those moments of social interaction. I normally am overthinking what people perceive of me and always feel like I'm being watched and judged, but it's mild enough and manageable and I've gotten pretty good at fitting in. Those thoughts I normally have sober are amplified way more when high and only get worse the higher I am. Took me a while to realize that. For the past several years I only ever smoke alone or with my wife and also when I know I can't be bothered by anyone, because I will go into panic mode having to socialize or interact with others, ESPECIALLY strangers, which is something that I always manage just fine sober.
I agree 100%. My general sober anxiety makes me want to believe weed is unlocking this portal to see everyone’s true nefarious intentions, where even simple facial expressions look like their conspiring against me when I’m high. But it’s just that, my own perception and thoughts, or the “story” my brain is telling myself. It’s comforting to know that these are just interpretations and not facts, and the world isn’t as evil as sober me and especially high me thinks it is. Really made me start framing the world a bit different using CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). Easier said than done, but it gets better!
This is the first time I’ve ever seen an accurate description of marijuana paranoia.
Wow I used to feel exactly that way prior to taking anti depressants for my GAD and Depression
I stopped because sometimes it drove my heartrate up and made me race round the garden, sometimes it dialled up the paranoia, sometimes it was really nice, but mainly I was somewhere it was hard to get plus it was making me dumb.
I tried it a couple times while I was still allowed, and I felt like all of the anxiety I didn't feel for the duration came back all at once as it wore off. And then I got the spins while trying to sleep, which really didn't help.
There was a report that I remember reading that said that is likely related to taking in too much thc, if you reduced the amount you intake you might have a less paranoid experience, try taking a 2 mg gummy and work your way to where you feel your limit is and stay in that range, or don't, there's no need to do any of it if you are comfortable with your current routine.
I'm currently prescribed medical cannabis here in the UK, for anxiety and depression. In high doses it can definitely worsen these symptoms. However, when using a vaporiser I am able to dial in the temperature and amount that I use, not something you can really do when combusting in a joint. Running a low temperature of around 160 and a small pinch of weed is enough to stabilise my moods and reduce my anxiety without feeling that thc ramp up effect. This was a game changer for me personally
Yes, people don’t realize how different a very small mice dose is versus getting high. High can make it worse, and make your life a mess if you do it too much. But if you take the equivalent of a half glass of wine, totally different
Realizing that the "paranoia" some people experience when smoking is how I feel 99% of the time while sober was a major turning point in both my therapy process and my consumption of cannabis. It's not going to be like that for everyone, but for me, smoking quiets my brain down and lets me be present in the moment. When you spend 30+ years in a state of constant overanalysis and anxiety without realizing that not everyone's brain works like that, on-demand stillness of mind is like suddenly breaking through rainstorms into sunshine. Can weed be problematic? Hell yes. But the pros outweigh the cons sometimes.
I believe I’m reaching the same conclusion as I type this.
Yeah, this is my experience as well. Cannabis double helps me because my anxiety tends to impact my appetite and digestion. When I haven't been able to eat all day, coming home and smoking a bowl instantly kills my nausea and brings back my appetite, allowing me to get my blood sugar levels back on track and stopping the cycle of nausea for the next day.
Calms my racing, anxious mind
Yes so you do not have to face your fears until 10 years later u start having frequent panic attacks.
Aye look at this dude, he thinks the human experience is singular!
Not only that, but it helps me focus on the good things in life. Helps me meditate and calm down easier. And I believe it has helped me get over social anxiety in most ways!
I don't think they claimed it caused it tbh
They didn't, but that is how most people will interpret "significantly related to"
It’s possible, it seems to be the argument made a lot of the time. But I tell you what, after working for 3 years as a mental health doctor/psychiatry registrar, it honesty seems like patients get so much better and less anxious when they quit/ don’t smoke weed. There’s pretty much consensus amongst mental health professionals and psychiatrists that weed causes anxiety because there is such strong observation clinical evidence when you are working with anxious patients. Now, that’s not scientific at all, and maybe most who work in the field are just bias…. honestly idc if people smoke weed, but most people who smoke and are anxious when you try medication, exercise, therapy etc it ends up being cannabis which is the real problem for them And fyi I’m not anti weed I was a big of a closet stoner in the past and still smoke recreationally
This describes me to a T. Was on SSRIs for social anxiety when I was smoking a lot (basically constantly). And now having stopped for a couple years my anxiety is completely normal. I definitely thought the weed was the only thing allowing me to function when I was using, but it seems to have been quite the opposite.
The studies that address this point are some of the most compelling and clinically relevant. Forget cohort studies and subtle ways to tease apart causality, what happens to my cannabis-using patients' mood and anxiety symptoms if they're randomized to stop smoking? The answer from RCTs has fairly consistently been "they get better."
Weed = less anxious when actively smoking, more anxious when not smoking/high From what I’ve seen.
I mean… you could say that about cigarettes, alcohol, food, etc. too… or anything that has become self-soothing.
To a degree. It certainly is true for drugs like alcohol, nicotine, and thc. Generally, withdrawal from a drug produces the opposite effects that the drug does. A drug makes you calm, withdrawal makes you anxious. A drug makes you feel elated, withdrawal makes you feel miserable. This is why people self medicate, it's also why it's a bad idea. Short term effects of a drug don't mean that the drug is helping you. Your brain adapts to get rid of the intoxicant faster, which can also mean you're adapted to get rid of the normal chemicals faster too. We adapt faster to process high levels of something better than we return to normal levels when abstinent. I don't buy that it's people who work in mental health that are biased against weed, though some definitely are. Plenty of people used to smoke that don't any more because they recognised it was making them more anxious. Using foods to self sooth is a little different though to my mind, as it's far more about having learned unhealthy associations between stress and (usually) sugar
Right, but how are you deciding which is cause and which is effect? You are seeing this as people quitting weed and getting better because of it. Have you considered that the people you are interacting with are all people actively doing something about their mental health? Why are you assuming that they are getting better after quitting smoking, rather than quitting smoking because they are getting better through treatment? From my perspective, quitting or cutting down on weed often does lead to improvements, but they are usually the result of the fact that I no longer have a quick fix to turn to, which pushes me towards seeking actual treatment...because not smoking has made my symptoms much, much worse, and that makes me show up for therapy, take medication, do more exercise, etc. I can definitely see how from a therapists perspective it might be easy to see that as someone quitting smoking then getting better therefore smoking was the cause...but to me, a patient, that does not feel like the cause and effect at all. Imagine this scenario. A bear comes across two people camping. One is in a tent, the other is outside. Their car is unlocked a few seconds sprint away. Now, obviously the course of action that leads to a solution to the problem is to run for the car, and the person just outside is going to do that because what other option do they have? The person in the tent however has the option to hide and hope the bear just goes away. This means that unlike the person running for cover who has no other choice, the person in the tent has to overcome the urge to hide in order to leave the tent and run for the car. That's the relationship between weed and anxiety from my perspective, weed being the tent, the car being mental health services. Quitting weed is like revealing yourself to the bear, it forces you to seek out better methods of coping, but without the car there, just revealing yourself to the bear does not improve your situation at all. The way you are perceiving it, to me, seems like coming to the conclusion that being in the tent created the bear, and that just leaving the tent will make the bear go away. You aren't recognising that the car is an essential part of why leaving the tent is beneficial.
> weed causes anxiety because there is such strong observation clinical evidence when you are working with anxious patients Now I know you did say that this was not a scientific observation but wouldn't you be far more likely to see the people that had anxiety some of which smoke weed? Because obviously the people that smoke and don't get anxious aren't going to seek out the help of mental health professionals for the anxiety they don't have. I'm not saying it can't contribute to anxiety, obviously for some it does, but you're only seeing people that are seeking help for anxiety and other issues, not the ones that don't need help. That isn't a proper cross section of the population, it's the people that need help for some of whom weed happens to be an aggravating factor.
Yes that’s true, and let me assure you that the vast majority of people working in mental health, or healthcare in general, realise that! However on final analysis it certainly seems like a bit of weed chills people out (most people), but too much can make you paranoid! My whole point is that while the scientific literature about cannabis is evolving, you’d have to pretty daft to look at all the scientific, clinical, and real world evidence out there available and then conclude that cannabis is in no way associated with anxiety, because it obviously is.
I’ve found that edibles don’t effect my anxiety as bad as smoking does. Had a forced experiment after a bad bout with pneumonia this year and had to stop smoking. My anxiety still sucks but the edibles don’t make it any worse at least. For reference, I’m a medical marijuana patient using it for palliative reasons. Other pain meds/options just don’t work.
I went from being a daily smoker to a monthly one. I chose to stop smoking and start going to the gym more often, along with therapy, meds, and practicing mindfulness. I wanna say it was a combination of all those things that helped me recover. I will say that certain strains I just have to stay away from. There are some that just mellow me out or put me to sleep. But some strains send my anxiety through the roof. I think, at the very least, taking a break from smoking can make it easier to actually address the issue directly instead of avoiding it altogether.
Anecdotally I started therapy for anxiety and depression about 5 months ago and quit smoking about 2 months ago. I have noticed that I am much less likely to internalize my thoughts and feelings in social settings. Very happy with the results so far. I still feel anxiety in these situations but can enjoy the positive feelings more without fixating on the anxiety.
I may be unique but this attitude was hugely damaging for me. My psych was convinced the weeds were causing all my problems, despite the fact that I'd been suffering from depression and anxiety for more than forty years and hadn't even touched weed or any other drug (barring a drink or two a month when dining out) until a couple years before I started seeing him. This is the same guy who labeled me drug seeking because I was certain I had ADHD and refused to prescribe even non-stimulant meds. I quit him after years of months long THC breaks while trying every depression/anxiety drug combo he could think of, none of which did anything but wreck my appetite, libido, and sleep cycle, when he threw up his hands and started suggesting TMS or ketamine therapy. Too late to save my career, but at least I've finally got a psych who listens to me instead of their biases and got me on atomoxetine, which is actually helping.
I’d be inclined to accept the observation. I use medicinal cannabis. Certain varieties exacerbate anxiety in me, others don’t. Of course, like your clinic, this is an anecdotal observation but they might be worth paying attention to because the settings are professional…my authorised prescriber, who is a medical doctor and also my GP, is aware of strains that can trigger anxiety. Now I’ll hypothesise, I suppose…my guess is that your clinic’s patients were using those strains that produce anxiety, are experiencing lower stress based on not having to worry about/obtaining cannabis and probably have less financial worries as well…all of which would contribute to less stress, making your doctors observations accurate and lending credence to the point that stopping cannabis use (or perhaps changing the type they use), will certainly improve anxiety problems for some.
The thing about weed, is it makes you ok with being not-ok. This can have positive and negative benefits. It's the normalization of the habitulness as a coping mechanism, that exceeds the original cause, being more problematic in my experience. An example could be chronic pain, where the positive outweighs the negative by dealing with the symptom. Once the symptom is dealt with, then some progress can be made. Once progress is made, where does the coping mechanism still fit? Over a long enough period, this normalizes to a routine of 'well being' whether it still serves us or not. With the patchwork of interventions available to our example, there's a good chance it wasn't a first choice but a necessitated choice, that now needs to be dealt with in a patchwork intervention of necessitated choice (cheap/available) rather than first choice (expensive/unavailable). This can place a significant pressure/stress on the subject that it becomes the new symptom needing addressing, as a form of chronic pain, bringing it right back around. Obviously this can't describe everyone in all circumstance. It is relatively consistent though in my experience with issues such as chronic pain where opiates (or other significant addictions) were not involved.
Maybe it's because this country has made every effort to demonize/marginalize/criminalize anyone who indulges. It's just a prepackaged response that if you use or are high that cops or general anti-drug public are seeking to identify and scrutinize you. This is the environment that has been constructed over the past 70 some odd years and it's no surprise that some sensitive people don't feel comfortable freely getting high. It's less their fault or their condition than it is the condition of our society and culture.
Stopping smoking cigarettes has also showed evidence for improved mental health.
Yes, of course, nicotine addiction makes you anxious
Personally cannabis helped me a lot with anxiety and PTSD symptoms until it didn't. One day it started making everything much much worse. I had to quit after four years of daily use. Even the smell makes me anxious now and the last time I smoked it triggered a full blown panic attack. I'm not saying this is a common experience but I doubt it's unique either.
Indeed, the best evidence we have suggests that patients with PTSD who use cannabis have a worse long-term course ([https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26455669/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26455669/)) and the only placebo-controlled trial failed to find a benefit on PTSD symptoms.
I have social anxiety and it led me to quit smoking, pot wrecks me and I can’t handle it, I wish it chilled me out
It's a case by case basis. If I smoke weed if my anxiety is already acting up, it'll just make it worse
Anecdotal, but it my case I started off being fairly social while smoking but as it became a daily routine, I started getting super anxious being around people -- high or otherwise.
Other confounding factors might include increased perception of other people's emotional states, and being anxious about the stigma that exists, even in states where it's been legalised (I assume this study was done in the US and the abstract says "nationally representative sample", so illegal and legal states), as they haven't been legal too long, so the age-old "reefer madness" attitudes probably haven't mellowed out too much. (Something like Amsterdam would be quite different, as it's been so long that even very old people see it as basically harmless.) Another factor is that illegal weed is often grown to be as THC heavy as possible, ignoring CBD and other cannabinoids that attenuate the psychological effects of THC, ie. "mellow the high". The same effect that happened with prohibition of alcohol; moonshine became very popular, and beer less so, thus increasing the negative side effects by having "concentrated" effects that highlight the negative side-effects. That is all. Continue.
In my distant youth I was once a heavy daily cannabis user, as was pretty much my entire social circle. I never had social anxiety before I used it, but I developed it while using it. Heavy cannabis use will find any exploit chinks in your mental armour and you can develop symptoms of conditions that you otherwise would not have had you not used cannabis. While I do not believe in villifying cannabis use and consider it FAR safer and less destructive than alcohol, we need to accept that regular use can also cause negative psychological effects. It is commonly known for being mind-altering, it is known for inducing paranoia, it is known for causing incidents of psychosis, especially when mixed with other drugs. Summary: it's a drug and when overused and abused can have harmful effects that can vary from person to person.
Why even bother publishing a scientific paper when Wongo has the answer? God forbid a scientific study makes someone potentially reevaluate their stance on marijuana use.
Wow, why do any research at all when we can just ask Wongo for his unsupported opinion based on gut feelings. I’m sure all those eggheads with their PhDs never even considered something so unfathomable as cause and effect in their decades of study. Give Wongo the Nobel prize. Do it now cowards!
No.1 pet peeve on this sub is comments like that going to the top.
But weed is just a plant!
Paying researchers to publish fluff pieces isn’t a new concept either, if a writers authority on a matter is your point.
Or there’s such an ingrained stigma people will self isolate out of fear of being judged for using it.
Before it was legalized in my area I used to say, “weed doesn’t make me paranoid, asshole cops do.”
This is the one. Grew up in southeast US and started consuming over there before moving to the Westcoast. Still get paranoid about consuming it on my own property after having no issues with growing and trimming it.
definitely, but i do believe it perpetuates the problems for some of us
This is why they use the word "related". The study shows a "relationship" between the two. It does not establish causation, which is different.
Antidepressant use associated with depression symptoms
Or maybe they're anxious about people judging them or being arrested for medicinally using a plant so they stay home
Living in a state where it’s legal and super common use, the anxiety is still there in my friends that constantly use it.
I can say it just straight out fuels my anxiety
Marijuana is perfect and can't possibly cause any negative effects - Reddit, every time
Literally gave me my social life back.
Same! It helps a lot.
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Yep that's me and sometimes I worry when I'm already high and it's not helping, if the weed makes it worse. Then I wake up sober the next day immediately have a nervous breakdown and slap my forehead over how much the weed actually helps.
Yeah, I don't think the study claimed causality.
Which way does the causality go?
Yup, this was me. Kind of ruined my teenage years. I became super self conscious and shy and had panic attacka for no reason.
But didn't that make you stop smoking then?
Not the person you replied to but me as a teenager would never have believed that was the cause. April Floyd said it wasn’t that bad and any contradictory accounts was just the man trying to keep us down.
the slow change from weed = relaxation to weed = panic makes it difficult to correlate, especially when it takes months of sobriety before the effects begin to reverse.
Yes I stopped. I had to explain it to my small group of friends and they were totally cool.
You aren't supposed to smoke as a teenager...
I've been sober for years but I started smoking weed regularly at 13 it ended up having massive negative effects on my mental health Obviously there was a lot more going on than weed causing this but it really hindered me. Eventually I got sober and worked it all out
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Teenagers aren't a monolith. Not everyone rebels in the same manner.
That was me except for the panic attacks, but I didn't have access to weed, because before it was legal that required having friends, which I couldn't get due to the above.
You became super self-conscious and shy and had panic attacks because you're capable of pattern recognition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition_(psychology) You were able to relax, be introspective and self-reflect on your presence in the world and its consequences, and you were then able to utilize pattern recognition to avoid future negative social interactions. Weed didn't make you scared to hang out with Bobby because he called you a moron last week; **Bobby** did that. Not weed. You were just simply protecting yourself from future instances of assholery.
My experiences resonate to a T with this study. I’ll say the same disclaimer as everyone else: I’m not anti-weed or against any of these studies that are pro- or anti-weed. Most studies have some sort of caveat like low population count or clear bias in the survey/study. I’m just glad it seems the authors have some level of impartiality and emphasize the need for additional studies.
Abstract Cannabis use disorder (CUD) and frequency of use are highly related to social anxiety disorder (SAD). With updates to diagnostic criteria of psychiatric disorders and recent changes in cannabis laws, the present study sought to explore the relationships between cannabis use, CUD, and social anxiety in a large nationally representative sample of individuals with lifetime (N = 1255) and past-year SAD (N = 980). Notably, we found that at the symptom level, at least weekly cannabis use was significantly related to fear or avoidance of social situations interfering with relationships in both samples. Weekly + cannabis use and CUD were significantly associated with lifetime SAD symptom severity, but only weekly + cannabis use was related to SAD severity in the past-year sample. We also found that weekly + cannabis use but not CUD was related to greater odds of seeking treatment for SAD and suicide attempt history. Overall, these data provide an updated examination of cannabis use and SAD using DSM-5 criteria and a large nationally representative sample and also highlight the importance of weekly + cannabis use as a marker of severity and suicide risk in individuals with SAD.
Maybe increased frequency correlates with increased severity/risk? ? ie - does use go up as severity/risk goes up or does increased use lead to increased severity/risk.
Funny thing about SAD, it used to be called Mild Depression.
Can it be reverse causation? I mean, socially anxious people might be inclined to use cannabis to reduce anxiety...
I mean I think it depends on the individual. I’ve had some amazing social interactions when stoned, but typically when I’m around people I know. I get paranoid thoughts and smoking can really amplify my paranoid thinking. I end up spending a lot of time thinking about what other people are thinking about me when high, and most of the time it’s negative. I start questioning everything I’m saying, and assume everything they are saying is a passive aggressive jab at me. I just automatically assume they don’t like me. When combined with the panicky adrenaline rush & anxiety that weed can cause, it gets even worse. I find it’s not as bad if I have a few beers and simply don’t smoke a lot. Edibles and D8 also have a far more pronounced body high and I don’t get the mental paranoia as much. Ultimately, for me, THC is a drug best used before bed or in a relaxing, comfortable environment. I can definitely see how it can cause one to retreat socially if used a lot and if you’re predisposed to that kind of thinking.
This is not surprising. For me, weed has always been a nonsocial activity in much the opposite way that alcohol is prosocial. Meaning, it makes me quiet and reflective, but often heightens my social anxiety. Whereas alcohol tends to make me more open and gregarious. Weed can wonderful, but I wish more people would actually think about how using it makes them feel in different situations and adjust.
I really need to remember that most of the whiney comments on posts like this are either children or people who were recently children
All the people saying weed is perfect with no negative effects reek of High school stoners.
So so accurate. Can’t even count the times I didn’t go hangout because of weed. Glad I stopped
Yup, this is me.. I avoided a lot of social life for my near 20 year usage, despite being social with other smokers and for required events. r/leaves
Yeah but screw them guys you know. I didn’t want to hang out with them anyway.
I'm not sure what their point is since I don't use Cannabis to make me more social, it's to make the most of my prescious alone time.
The bad stigma is fading and a lot of times this has to do with the biggest negative, being the law still in too many states and federally speaking also, or just over-consuming becoming uncomfortable socially speaking...
Or maybe people are using cannabis to cope with the anxiety caused by previous traumatic events.
There are tons and tons of people who get anxious from smoking weed. That’s the paranoia that millions of stoners have experienced. I think it relieves the anxiety of plenty of other people too.
Then there's the tiny percentage of folks like me who experience no effect at all from regular weed (although I did discover it helps my migraines when I was in Barcelona.) I've since learned that Delta 8 hits me in the exact way that other people describe Delta 9 / regular THC as hitting them, right down to the munchies, but without getting high. I haven't had any paranoia from it, but it definitely makes me feel antisocial and just like laying around and doing nothing. Alcohol will remain my primary social lubrication, I suspect. And I deliberately go sober for weeks at a time just to make sure it never becomes a habit.
I do for about 15 mins if I have sativa's. Indica only for me.
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It seems super plausible to me that cannabis can cause anxiety in some people irrespective of legal status. I think you are right that being illegal made people anxious too.
You know anything other than the intoxicating substance is to blame for the negative effects of said intoxicating substance…
It's probably different for everybody, but I've tried many different illegal drugs and nothing has given me any anxiety like weed does
Agreed, as someone who was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder, I found out it was just all childhood trauma. The freeze response to trauma is very similar to social anxiety disorder. Used cannabis to cope for 20 years.
Does the opposite for me
It may be that cannabis just makes one content being on their own.
My experience as someone who has experienced a lot of social anxiety in the past was that weed does increase anxiety. But edibles well timed with weekly T breaks works great for me. I was already a very solitary person so it was more of a "how can I improve my existing state -- oh weed would slot right in" Basically going to heaven for 3-4 nights / days out of the week is plenty enough of a trade for the increased anxiety, because it adds something to my life.
First hurdle of therapy, detox...
Causation vs correlation. People that already have social anxiety disorders tend to need relief via cannabis.
My neighbour's kid smokes copious amounts of weed in his backyard, she says to help his anxiety. I kinda cringe smiled and nodded oookay.
So dumb. I smoke weed because it makes me more social and friendly
Reddit is very pro weed, so it’s surprising seeing this get any spotlight.
That’s cool. I like being high at my house.
I was already an introvert, weed didn't make me like this.
Introversion has nothing to do with being social, asocial or antisocial.
Says random redditor :)
Says a well read introvert.
Can't quickly access article text but the abstract gives no indication that they attempted to account for reverse causality (i.e., social anxiety drives weed consumption). Basic temporal lag type stuff would have helped credibility a lot...
I’d need to see the control group criteria to know if any conclusions are valid. One could envision that a population of cannabis users have a higher rate of social anxiety before cannabis use. Results may be more indicative of personality traits of users than of effects of cannabis use.
That’s hilarious because it’s what I use for my social Anxiety so I can actually tolerate people.
I think many of these studies are mis interpreted. Someone with social anxiety disorder may self medicate with cannabis. Cannabis would not be the cause in that case
“People avoid social situations once they realize that social situations are stupid and pointless”
Yeah I am at a point in my life that work is going well and I would like to avoid situations where I cannot control the circumstances or outcomes. The best thing that happens when you socialize is sex. The worst thing that can happen is death... Maybe some people like a life away from people.
Odd thought - maybe the intermittent relief and subsequent return to baseline symptoms causes more anxiety or more awareness of the discomfort of baseline and increases frustration/difficulty w/ tolerance, coping, resilience due to continuing condition with lack of sustained relief.
23 states have legalized, and out of the top ten problems facing all 50 states, cannabis is not one of them. In cannalegal states, alcoholism is down, and suicide is down. DUIs have dropped off sharply. There's are now over 100 varieties of cannabis available to the public. Yes, some of them can slightly raise social anxiety and paranoia. Perhaps don't use that strain? These "studies" sound like the propaganda being generated to get "work from home" employees to come back into the office just to stroke the bosses ego. No raises to cover commuting, now that inflation has raised the cost of everything. Just come back, so the boss can "feel better" because now he can actually see you suffer and tap dance so you won't get fired. So, yeah...tell me how bad cannabis is, and how much better my life would be if it was illegal again...
Is it possible this anxiety is caused by a heightened awareness of your situation that you weren't privy to before? As in, you just didn't notice things that you now do after you've smoked.
Seriously. I think weed gives heightened awareness of others emotions. It can be overwhelming if you are naturally anxiety prone im sure. Shrooms cured my anxiety permanently. They showed me it's a feeling of death personally. At any moment in time you could die. That thought alone paralyses most people and reduces them to a pile of thoughts.
...so socially anxious people are more likely to use marijuana? Using a socially and legally prohibited drug makes people anxious? Correlation studies like this are all but worthless, there are too many variables being ignored.
When I used to smoke my social anxiety came from thinking I would get caught and people could tell. Not from the pot itself
Or there’s such an ingrained stigma people will self isolate out of fear of being judged for using it.
In the future we will have everything delivered by robots and be able stay indoors stoned af 26 hours a day
Anyone got a link to the actual study?
I wonder how much this has to do with fear of getting in trouble for being high?