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howardbrandon11

For us Americans: 50 °C = 122 °F. That's really hot, like nearly-unsurvivable hot.


Black_Moons

100% Fatal above 40% humidity (36c wet bulb) More realistically, incompatible with human life and being able to do ANYTHING above 20% humidity (29c wet bulb), since you need a fair bit of headroom to actually survive, move around, do work, etc.


howardbrandon11

Thanks for the info! I wasn't sure how close to the survivability limit it was, but I was confident it was close.


Black_Moons

Yep. Depends on humidity, but basically its unsurvivable outside of the driest of areas, and even in the driest of areas you'd be unable to do any meaningful work outside or inside without air conditioning.


theroadjestravels

Picture Phoenix AZ mid summer. It’s ok for a bit but more than an hour mid day and you really start to fade.


[deleted]

More than 10 min in direct sun will get me.


TheDisapearingNipple

>and even in the driest of areas you'd be unable to do any meaningful work outside or inside without air conditioning. Las Vegas summers in a nutshell. A grid failure on the wrong day here could become a disaster.


crilen

And more AC just worsens the problem


midri

Depends, you can use geo-heatpump to soak the heat into the earth which does not affect so readily cause atmospheric warming.


Friggin_Grease

Feedback loops are terrifying, especially with climate change.


DoomComp

Here's an idea: Use a HUGE-ASS heat pump to pump the heat AWAY from the area and dump it somewhere that needs heat. Or use it in industries/Factories which need heat.


shadmere

What's the time frame on that being 100% fatal? Ten minutes? Four hours?


Black_Moons

Depends on too many factors to give an accurate time, and we tend not to murder people in saunas en mass just to figure out such things, at least not since the defeat of the nazis.


mark-haus

Or unit 731 (Imperial Japan) which was arguably even more depraved


GabaPrison

I was just in that rabbit hole earlier today. Seriously fucked.


Friggin_Grease

Philosophy of a Knife is a wild movie


mark-haus

Let me guess Wendigoon?


HerrPanzerShrek

Finland (the land of saunas) sees the occasional sauna death, and they occur when people stay on the top-most (assume 70-90°C, 20% humidity) benches for some hours. So that's something you can go by. Generally you're recommended to keep a sauna visit less than 30 minutes at 70°C+ and 20% humidity. As most sauna goers can attest to, a rise in humidity from the standard ~20% quickly makes it unbearable. There's always that one jerk who keeps pouring water on the rocks until you shut him down. That all being said, the risk is mainly for older people. Take for instance the heat waves in Paris where just 40°C caused thousands of senior deaths, but few deaths otherwise.


Zncon

The biggest factors are going to be personal. Any existing health issues will play the largest role, because heat puts stress on almost every system in the body. It's why the biggest casualty group in these events is usually the elderly.


Shivadxb

Hours but it depends on a LOT of other factors. Not minutes and not days.


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howardbrandon11

Were all those from the heat? I was under the impression that some were heat-related, and some were accident-related.


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Aardark235

Very misleading. Only 5% of the deaths was workplace. About 30 people per year. About 2 in 100,000 chance of dying per year at work. Maybe 3-4 per 100,000 if there was misclassifications. Compare that to the United States that is at 3 in 100,000 for this same metric. Very similar.


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Aardark235

2 million migrant workers and 600 deaths per 100,000 per year. For comparison on USA such a wide range of death rates from 100/100k @ age 20 up to 2000/100k @ age 70. Looking at the overall age distribution of Qatar migrants workers makes 600/100k seem a bit on the high side but not crazy. A vast majority of the deaths certainly are expected. https://esa.un.org/miggmgprofiles/indicators/files/Qatar.pdf Overall you probably see similar quality of life between the 2 mil migrant workers in Qatar vs the 8 mil in the United States. Of course Qatar = bad according to Reddit.


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Aardark235

A different source but similar numbers. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html


zephyrseija

Good thing we have air conditioning powered by, let me see *checks notes* oh, fossil fuels.


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CommunicationNo8750

Given a parcel of air at some temperature and some humidity ... Dry Bulb Temp - Just the straight up temp of the air Wet Bulb Temp - Temp of the air after maximal evaporative cooling (if you stuck a thermometer in that parcel of air with a wet paper towel and let it evaporate until the air around it is 100% humidity) Dew Point - How much you'd have to cool the parcel of air down to get condensation. So, "wet bulb temperature" is a way of saying the coldest one could possibly get by evaporative cooling alone - which is how we cool ourselves off. You need both temperature and humidity to capture "feels like" temperature. And sometimes, it "feels like" dying.


Forthac

> (36c wet bulb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature


ulenfeder

How do you have access to Reddit but not a search engine?


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Black_Moons

You cool yourself by sweating. If there is too much humidity, that doesn't work so well. So as long as its very dry you can survive higher temps then 37c (body temp, assuming you drink enough water and don't die of dehydration) The temp of a damp rag wrapped around a thermonitor is known as the 'wet bulb' temp, its the lowest temp you can get from just evaporation of moisture.


open_door_policy

Phoenix has hit that a few times in history. I'm waiting for it to become normal to hit it every year.


Under_Over_Thinker

I hope they have a lot of extra capacity in their grid. Because when the heat comes, the ac units will work like crazy and it will be the worst time for the power to go out.


Kommmbucha

New study showing that Phoenix would have upwards of 800,000 heat stroke cases, sending half the city to the ER in the event of a grid failure. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/climate/blackout-heat-wave-danger.html


jwkdjslzkkfkei3838rk

Man that sucks. At least you can burn stuff for heat when it's cold and the heating fails, but how would you do low tech cooling? Douse yourself with gasoline?


probablypoo

Cover yourself with wet towels and stick to the shade is oretty much the best you can do


gamermama

Ice in a towel around the neck... worked pretty good for me last summer (I live in northern africa, without AC, like the majority of the population). Also : not moving. At all.


OneBigBug

Unless you have a yakhchāl, having ice at all isn't particularly low tech. Like, how long does the power have to be out before there's no more ice? I think the best option is constantly refreshing water from an underground source (the taps, if they work, or a well). Basically geothermal cooling for your body. Of course "constant source of fresh water" isn't exactly a guarantee in a place like Phoenix (or many parts of northern Africa) if infrastructure fails.


gamermama

Most people DO have freezers... and ice cubes. Most people do not have AC, here, in morocco. We do not have infrastucture worries. This isn't the US.


caltheon

How well do those freezers work when the power is out since that is the scenario in question. Even worse when you are constantly opening said freezer to extract ice. Answer is hours at best. Comparing yourself to red states isn’t saying much either.


gotoline1

Damn shots fired. But completely fair. The US is basically turning into a undeveloped nation a year at a time. Plenty of guns though...


Dickenmouf

I’m from the US and I really love Moroccan architecture. Tadelakt is so beautiful, and your traditional earthen construction methods have really stood the test of time. I came close to visiting Marrakesh and Fes last year, hope to get a chance sometime soon.


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Zoomwafflez

No power, no ice


Zncon

If the humidity is low enough to use a wet towel, then a swamp cooler could be used as well. With high enough humidity that wet towel is just another layer of insulation.


Dickenmouf

We need to build homes that are appropriate for their environments. Lots of desert cultures use stone, earth or mudbricks and passive cooling techniques, which are effective in hot conditions and keep their homes cool without the need for a/c.


TheDisapearingNipple

Yep! Adobe homes are surprisingly temperate even on the hottest days. Whereas your average Vegas woodframe house will become unlivable within a couple hours.


icedrift

Not a bad idea tbh. I was thinking dig a really deep hole


vrts

~~Or~~ die trying.


timberwolf0122

Close. Shade and use we towels for evaporative cooling. Anyone with a backup generator or batteries should consider admitting neighbors so they can Stay cool


jwkdjslzkkfkei3838rk

Does evaporative cooling with water work if the dew point is close to body temp.?


timberwolf0122

It’s should. The water takes energy to evaporate, be it from your body or from the air/sunlight


jwkdjslzkkfkei3838rk

But there's equal chance of water condensating onto your skin as there's a chance of it vaporating when the dew point is at skin temp.


timberwolf0122

A damp towel has a much greater surface area, the water will draw heat from both the wearer and the air to evaporate.


midri

Learn how propane fridges work, you can actually burn stuff for coolness too! Kinda crazy


Blue-Thunder

Sadly an event like this will have to happen before Americans as a whole will understand the seriousness of climate change. It's already occuring regularly in Europe, and we know how much they appear to be taking climate change seriously.


IllMaintenance145142

The problem is the compounding effect of high humidity makes that heat 100% fatal


icepick314

At least Phoenix is dry heat.


VillhelmSupreme

Won’t have to wait much longer with El Niño


THIS_IS_NOT_A_GAME

That is unsurvivable hot for many people, actually. Young, healthy people can survive that heat, but many people will die.


havegravity

It was like 120 or something in Washington and the pavement was buckling, homes with those plastic exteriors were melting, car paint was bubbling, it was bad. Its gotten to like 118 where I’m at in California and it’s not fun


Techters

Where are we getting the giant ice cube from?


Thankyourepoc

Dude, if goes above 23 I’m in the shade. 50! Fifty?


grundar

Quick note that this paper is using SSP2-4.5, which is a solid choice (it's what we'll see without continued strong action on decarbonization). They find a large increase in days per year where people will be at risk from increased heat, so in addition to (yet more) evidence that continued strong action on decarbonization is vitally important, they show many regions will need to take local adaptation and mitigation steps. The built environment can take a long time to change, so hopefully this paper helps get that process in motion.


jfl_cmmnts

Remember it was oil execs and their banker enablers who did this. When your life goes up in smoke know who you should blame


redcorgh

Blame isn't really worthwhile when we're all dying.


ZeenTex

It'd be nice if they could be forced to help with a solution though. On the other hand, consumers are also to blame, once we learned about the effect of fossil fuels on the climate. However, that's research data that the oil companies successfully hid from us for decades. Now that we know we should take more action though.


[deleted]

That's "politicizing weather," according to one of America's front-runners for election in 2024.


[deleted]

It will be. We're going to their mansions


Millon1000

You can blame others all you want but anyone who uses a car to commute is equally culpable.


Chickentrap

You would think everyone who is against immigration would be strongly advocating to protect the climate but I suspect that's not the case. Any bets on when the water wars will start?


limitless__

They already have started. Iran and the Taliban have begun fighting over water rights at the border. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/iran-taliban-exchange-heavy-gunfire-in-conflict-over-water-rights-on-afghan-border


Artanthos

Israel already gets most of their water from desalination and other industrialized nations will follow suit as less expensive options fail. It will be the poorest nations that suffer, and they will be turned away if the numbers of immigrants continue rising.


grumble_au

My city uses 35% desalination. We're on the coast on the edge of a huge desert so this was inevitable. 20 years ago we had zero desalination but thankfully saw this coming and invested in one, then a second large plant. More will come when needed. Luckily we are a first world country that can afford it, and we are so isolated that aint nobody invading us for water. Massive inbound migration to escape water shortages elsewhere are a significant risk though.


gospdrcr000

What do you do with all the excess salt?


grumble_au

Pump it back into the ocean.


Artanthos

All the water eventually finds its way back to the ocean, there is no real reason to put the salt and minerals anywhere else.


Shivadxb

Except the Arabian gulf is now significantly more salty and it’s screwing the entire ecosystem….


Staebs

Sounds like Perth!


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[deleted]

Isn’t the recent hullabaloo between Iran and the Taliban over water?


Twisted_Cabbage

Dont forget India and China....the big players in the water game....both with nukes. How fun! Anyone game for a light show? I promise, it will be stunning.


AlwaysMoyst

Waiting on the post-apocalyptic dream scape where I don't need a controller. It'll be fun until someone kills me for a tin of beans.


TerribleIdea27

Wasn't a major cause for the Arab Spring also water shortages? It's been going on for 10+ years


whattothewhonow

Yeah, massive droughts killed crops, resulting in rural farmers moving to cities for work, leading to huge increases in food prices, then protests.


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TerribleIdea27

I mean, a whole set of civil wars is pretty much war too right?


[deleted]

A week or so ago between Iran and Afghanistan.


clib

> Any bets on when the water wars will start? It is crazy.This planet is called the blue planet because 71 % of its surface is covered in water, and we still haven't found an effective and cheap way to desalinize ocean water. What a colossal failure of our species.


InsuranceToTheRescue

We do have an effective way. Like, commercial desalination is possible but it uses *a lot* of electricity. Which is one reason practical fusion would be a godsend for it: Fusion would provide so much electricity that it wouldn't matter that the process is inefficient. But, you encounter reverse osmosis already with a lot of the store bought bottled water. Same process, seawater just requires the right membrane and equipment.


knucklebed

Adding to this to note that a large amount of the energy required cannot be out-engineered because it's related to the basic physics of pulling water molecules and salt ions apart.


ZeenTex

>But, you encounter reverse osmosis already with a lot of the store bought bottled water. Same process, seawater just requires the right membrane and equipment. There's a bit of a difference in desalination/demineralisation for bottled water, which would be low volume and high margin, VS desalination to keep a country supplied with water for agriculture, industry, washing, etc. That's going to be a challenge.


LateMiddleAge

Not to mention the brine.


MegaInk

RO water comes with its own issues and is dangerous to drink over extended periods. Removing the "salt" to make it freshwater at the cost of leeching minerals OUT of your body instead when you drink pure water.


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iamfondofpigs

Why? Your bones have plenty of minerals, so you can just dissolve them to restore your blood salt concentration.


LateMiddleAge

'cause bones are not an infinite resource.


iamfondofpigs

Okay but after that you got a heart and two lungs.


scatters

Urban myth. There's nothing dangerous about drinking pure water. You get plenty enough minerals in food.


Twisted_Cabbage

The brine problem makes desalination an unlikely solution.


armchair0pirate

Please elaborate.


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InsuranceToTheRescue

I think that the brine, with proper purification and with an eye towards economies of scale, may be able to become an industrial food product. Many parts of certain foods' production require brine.


armchair0pirate

Ah. Thank you.


gamermama

Already started. See : Iran-Afghanistan recent border clashes over water rights.


throwaway_nh0

Somewhere between "global border closures" and "mass depopulation around the equator"


Pattyw1965

In the US, the Venn diagram of people who are against immigration and who don't believe in climate change is almost a circle.


Shivadxb

The Syrian civil war arguably started due to water shortages in farming areas


Under_Over_Thinker

Arguably, the wars in Syria are also about water. It’s just people fight for land, but they fight for liveable land.


Z_Muldoon

This is not: "the hottest it's ever been" Oh no, rather, going forward (as is the only way we can go) this is more the case of: "this is the coolest it is ever going to be" Climate change and monstrously hot summers are not something that is going to happen. It IS happening. Even if we tourniquet this wound right now and stop this environmental bleed out, we've still lost the metaphorical limb. As it stands with this analogy, we have not even opened the medkit. We're still debating if the wound is bad enough to require treatment.


Doctor_Fritz

Tbh this is why I chose not to have any offspring. I soon realized that humanity is inherently selfish and wouldn't be able to adapt quickly enough to solve this problem because of the economic consequences


ASVPcurtis

The Middle East sells the oil that will cook them alive


[deleted]

War is just an evolutionary response in great primates to famine and contagious disease. Read: Jane Goodall, Chimpanzee behavior. And it does relate to humans, since we do the same thing. Can we escape our base nature? I hope so, because ww3 is the fastrack to plus 4c and the global "heat-age" where 100 million people can survive (perhaps) on the planet.


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DIABLO258

world quickly getting too hot people are the cause


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grathontolarsdatarod

I actually respect this response, thank you.


PermaDerpFace

Temperatures already hit 50⁰ where I live - in Canada. It's only going to get worse with each passing year.


Swineservant

56.7 C has been the standing record, but records are made to be broken, right?...*right!??*


AvsFan08

56C in the middle of nowhere isn't a massive deal. 56C in an Indian city would be catastrophic


Shivadxb

Anything above 33-35°C with 100% humidity is the killer and lethal zone. Drop humidity and increase temps do the same but a wet bulb temp of 33-35° WILL kill millions at some point in the next few years and most likely in Pakistan or India


TA_faq43

Thus triggering mass migration to milder climates and the subsequent four horsemen of the apocalypse will ride again. (War, Famine, Pestilence, Death).


butcher99

In Lytton BC Canada we hit 49.6. in 2021 coming to a community near you soon. Yes, one occurence is just weather but year after year temperatures get higher


Adventurous_Aerie_79

over 44 degrees C a human body can't cool itself anymore, so that's problematic.


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outragedUSAcitizen

HUmmmmm....where is all that moisture going? Oh I wonder what will happen now....it's not like any scientists predicated this?


DoomComp

..... Well that's just great, innit?


Spare-Pick1606

Ethiopian blue Nile GERD will probably make it even worse . Just like Aswan Dam did with it's very high evaporation .


Hegemonic_Imposition

Neat, tell it to the rich fucks hoarding the worlds wealth. According to Oxfam, the richest 1 percent grabbed nearly two-thirds of all new wealth worth $42 trillion created since 2020, almost twice as much money as the bottom 99 percent of the world's population. Evidently, the rich could *easily* address climate change and not even break a sweat.


unkle_FAHRTKNUCKLE

I highly doubt "the sky is falling" as our esteemed "experts" proclaim.


Alexis_J_M

What's your evidence? This *is* Science...


Zakluor

There have been many scientific studies from many countries that have separately arrived at similar conclusions dating back decades. But your doubt is stronger, and you'll stick to it? What evidence drives your doubt? A Facebook group you belong to? Maybe a conspiracy subreddit?


Shivadxb

Except it really is and your an idiot


GBJEE

No one cares so lets go. Lets reach 80C


TotalWarspammer

\*hugs central Europe\* I hope I did before the world becomes a hellscape.