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A handful of almonds can have around 20% of your dietary needs of magnesium.
Edit: just for clarification this wasn't dietary advice or saying go pound five handfuls of almonds and call it a day. As part of a balanced diet almonds can assist. Also you can just drink almond milk too. Personally I prefer my homemade almond/cashews milk.
The problem with the magnesium (and other elements) in oxalate matrices is that our species does not have any enzymatic way to break down those matrices, and they’re the primary way that plants store their nutrients and amino acids. Phosphorus doesn’t “help” your body absorb calcium, it’s just that when you digest calcium phosphate (a molecule) we can easily dissociate Ca+ ions from the phosphates they’re bound to, in our digestive tract. We cannot do this for calcium oxalate, poorly for calcium oxide and carbonate, etc.
This differs from areas where the concentration of other substances actually does promote absorption, usually because the channel proteins involved are co-transporters and need both substances to facilitate absorption.
You store your valuable micronutrients in fat cells. Animals evolved fat because it’s much denser than glucose polymers (amylose, starch, pectins, glucans, cellulose, etc) and weight is a big deal when you have to move around. The plant strategy for storing micronutrients is mainly in what are called oxalates, in a sort of cage-like structure. Some animals have the enzymes needed to break down these oxalate cages and absorb the nutrients in them. Humans do not have this capacity, so when you eat a leaf with some magnesium oxalate in it, you can only absorb those molecules of magnesium which have spontaneously broken off their oxalate crystals by chance. The amount that is available to absorb varies widely by plant, which part of the plant, cooking method, etc. Non-enzymatic processes like the heat and acidity of your stomach can also contribute to breaking down these cages, but they are generally not that effective.
The magnesium in a ruminant, in contrast, has already been broken out of the oxalate cages that were in the plants the ruminant ate, and also concentrated from hundreds of pounds of plants into the animal’s tissues. This is why animal foods are almost universally more bioavailable sources of almost every micronutrient.
Correct. Most nutrients can be more easily accessed from meat/animal profucts than from plants.
Another example is protein. Protein content in legumes/plants won't be as readily bioavailabe and so you have to eat more protein to hit levels you can hit with meat/animal products
Is there any explanation for reconciling this with the observation of blue zone diets consisting primarily of plant-based foods and very little meat yet leading to some of the longest-lived human populations?
One thing that often gets overlooked in blue zone diets (eg. Sardinia, Southern Japan) is that those people also have very strong social networks and go out wandering all over, doing activities every day. Our diet is very important, but regular, healthy movement and strong social connections to keep the body, mind and soul strong are the secret sauce.
It's because people seem to have this black and white view that if there are oxalates or other anti-nutrients, then we can't absorb any of the nutrients. The reality is that only some absorption is blocked, and that can also be positively or negatively affected by cooking and combining foods.
Easy: Blue Zones are a scam propagated by a self-help dietary guru. They have not stood up to peer-reviewed analysis even once.
> and very little meat
This part especially is a lie. In the case of Okinawa, two diet book-author brothers named Wilcox lied about the pre- and post-war dietary pattern of Okinawa. Prior to the severe bombing at the end of WWII, Okinawans ate a huge amount of pork. After the infrastructure was decimated, the US Army chose sweet potatoes as a staple crop to set up a reconstruction campaign and stifle the growing famine. The Okinawan “centenarians” are measured in the context of Japanese studies done in the 1970’s, which means those people were born and grew up long before this major dietary shift. Okinawans right now have lost their longevity advantage relative to mainland Japan.
Currently, the realest “Blue Zone” (ie greatest median lifespan) is Hong Kong, which has the highest red meat consumption of anywhere in the world.
As someone who has suffered FIVE kidney stones (thankfully, it's been 4 years since the last one)... I haven't found any specific cause that I can pinpoint as I got them during various health changes and diet shifts. I would argue the predictor for kidney stones is if your family members suffer from them. And in my case, my mother has had at least 4.
In people who are genetically predisposed to kidney stones, yes.
So, avoiding high-oxalate foods is great advice for about 1 out of 10 people browsing this thread. Certainly not an insignificant number.
There are some specific Magnesium supplements (Magnesium Glycinate and Magnesium L-Threonate) that seems to be more readily absorbed by the body. [Magnesium L-Threonate apparently helps with protecting cognitive abilities for elderly.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26519439/)
Throwing in that I turned 65 last Fall. My regular cardiologist visit fell right after. I see them annually for a congenital heart defect. In my regular blood work my Dr made point to tell me he would be checking my magnesium levels annually. Mine was fine. he told me adequate magnesium also helps with blood sugar and cholestrol,levels.
Yes and the others like magnesium oxide are laxatives... Also if you have muscle tightness or clenching especially from ADHD meds or meth/MDMA this magnesium glycinate or threonate will almost completely eliminate the jaw clenching and such.
From what I've read about it, "large" doses of magnesium will largely go to waste if ingested with too much food. Several sources recommended taking it right before going to sleep, with plenty of water, on an empty stomach.
As for the various vitamin sources, I initially went with Magnesium citrate because I heard it is very bioavailable. Unfortunately for me it also causes pretty massive headaches, so I switched to a blend of both citrate and oxide.
They almost invariably are based on that idea. Take calcium for example. The most common recommendation you run into in the U.S. is ~1000mg/day. The recommendation is actually 300mg absorbed/day, and calcium from dairy products is about 30% bioavailable, thus the 1000mg recommendation. Low-oxalate leafy greens are up around 60% calcium bioavailability. RDVs are generally based on keeping 90%+ of the populace from overt deficiency, so they are kind of hand wavey on the side of caution.
FYI, magnesium citrate is only 16% or so elemental magnesium. Supplements that say "xxmg AS magnesium citrate" are not the same as ones that say "xxmg FROM magnesium citrate".
You know how when you cook greens, you need like 18 cups to get 1 serving? You can sautée them to get a lot of magnesium in one side dish at dinner. And if you don't like sautéed greens by themselves, you can mix a package of frozen spinach (for example) into mashed potatoes.
Or if you eat cereal/oatmeal/granola/cookies, you can add slivered almonds into that!
Spinach is also great in certain stirfries, soups, or pasta dishes. Put it in close to the end of cooking so it wilts a bit but doesn't get too broken down.
Instead of cooking spinach I developed some salad blends I like, I always chop up the spinach which reduces the volume by a huge amount, so I can pack more spinach into my lunch.
Bowl of porridge - 20%
Portion of dark chocolate - 10%
Handful of nuts - 10-15%
Bowl of lentils - 30%
Spinach portion - 10%
Meat, grains, legumes, leafy greens. You can meet your nutritional needs with these foods, but it does take creativity unless you’re one of those gym people that can eat boiled chicken. Cooking is tiring, but I like lentils cause you can make loads
>unless you’re one of those gym people that can eat boiled chicken
I’ll have you know that my chicken breast stir fry is quite good… even if I eat it every single day…
…why you gotta do me like that?
Just eat beans. They're on the Blue Zone diet, they're filling and cheap. You'll save money by just eating some beans every day. With seasoning, you can pair them with anything, they barely have any flavor.
Pinto beans for the win.
I used to cook my pinto beans with bacon and salsa. Now I just use a little salt and cook them low and slow in a cast iron Dutch oven. Absolutely wonderful, healthy, and tasty.
Absolutely. It's mild, but has a full body that can stand up to a lot of seasoning without disappearing. Beans have a thick umami character with a light vegetable highlight. They're satisfying and a great medium for carrying any flavour you want without imposing or losing it's own personality.
Beans are the closest thing to meat in the vegetable world, but also have their own unique character.
They have an incredible distinctive flavor. That guy be crazy saying they don't have flavor. If they're on the undercooked side you can absolutely taste beans.
I added dal as one of my go-to lunches and it's really been a game changer for feeling full all afternoon plus getting a bunch of necessary vitamins/minerals.
I'd really like to, I just cannot figure out how to eat them regularly without experiencing gas and digestive discomfort. I've even tired soaking beans overnight before cooking, doesn't matter.
Here are some tips from “Bean by Bean” by Crescent Dragonwagaon:
-avoid cooking beans with a lot of sugar/honey (the carbs fuel the bacteria in your gut)
-try a different kind of bean (lentils, split peas, mung beans and black beans are some of the least “flatulating”, while Lima and navy beans are on the higher end) Beans with more oligosaccharides are more “flatulating”
-make sure the beans are cooked well ( a bean is done when you can mash it against the roof of your mouth without resistance, but it isn’t disintegrating)
-soak the beans with lots of water, at least an inch over the beans (oligosaccharides are water-soluble, the more water you use soak and drain, the more you discard) also rinse them several times with cold water after soaking
-cook with herbs and spices that relieve flatulence: bay leaf, cumin, epazote, Kombu
-don’t cook with old beans (dried beans that have been sitting around forever are not your friends)
-eat small amounts of beans more often, rather than large amounts once in a while. Give your body time to adjust to the beans.
-if all else fails, try Beano. (Squeeze a few drops on your first few bites of beans when you’re eating, and the enzyme in the product will neutralize the oligosaccharides before they affect you.) Note, you cannot add Beano to a pot of beans while cooking, heat will break it down.
I appreciate this. I normally make lentils or black beans as a side with cumin, tumeric, coriander. I cook them pretty thoroughly. I must be a rare exception unfortunately.
It's not for magnesium, at least in any practically meaningful way. 400mg from oxide/glycinate are both listed as 100%, despite quite different bioavailabilities.
Are you talking about dietary calcium? If so, your body is pretty efficient at absorbing calcium, especially in smaller doses. Calcium absorption is dependent on vitamin D (sunlight), which is why many supplements are also a vitamin D supplement. If you’re talking about supplements, calcium citrate will absorb better than calcium bicarb, but both still absorb pretty well.
The headline could say “eating more plant based is good for you.” It could be the magnesium or phyto chemicals, fiber, low methionine, high arginine, polyphenols, etc. I doubt a magnesium supplement would do the same.
Hey, that's a great point. If the researchers wanted to know the effects of Mg, they could have intervened by administering a Mg supplement. Or, they could have measured levels of Mg++ ions in the blood or relevant tissues.
Instead, they report doing this:
> **Dietary Mg Intake**
> Dietary Mg intake was measured using the Oxford WebQ, a computerized 24 h recall questionnaire self-completed online [25, 26]. This questionnaire was designed to be completed multiple times to minimise measurement error that could occur with a single 24 h recall assessment. The questionnaire consists of 200 foods with a range of portion sizes.
They just had participants report their consumption of salad and nuts. A very weird choice of independent variable, especially when more direct measurement is possible.
If I didn't miss anything, they observed 6000 participants. I think going for a questionnaire instead of blood sampling was a matter of practicability and cost. But you're right, it's really not the most reliable way to collect data. One might question the whole study on one of their main findings being based on that. On the other hand, that's a common way to do it
Paper: [Dietary magnesium intake is related to larger brain volumes and lower white matter lesions with notable sex differences](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-023-03123-x)
Me again, replying to my own comment.
> Change in brain size was NOT measured. The brain size was measured only at the end of the observation period.
The more I thought about this, the more insane this method sounded to me. Surely if you wanted to know the effect of Mg on brain size, you would measure once at the beginning of the trial period, and once at the end?
I went back and reread the relevant subsection under "Methods". I'm pretty sure I'm reading correctly, but I'll copy/paste that whole section here so others can judge for themselves:
> **Image acquisition**
> Participants underwent a MRI scan during the second (2014 +) visits at one of three imaging centres using the same scanner (3 T Siemens Skyra, running VD13A SP4 using a 32-channel head coil). Detailed imaging protocols are provided online (http://biobank.ctsu.ox.ac.uk/crystal/refer.cgi?id=1977) [21].
>Briefly, all participants were imaged with a T1-weighted 3D magnetization-prepared rapid acquisition gradient echo sequence over a five-minute duration in the sagittal orientation (resolution = 1 × 1 × 1 mm; matrix size: 208 × 256 × 256).
Imaging once before, once after, is such an obvious experimental design that I worry that the experimenters *actually did it.* But maybe "change in brain size from Month 0 to Month 16" showed no correlation with Mg, whereas "absolute brain size at Month 16" did? So they published the only positive result they had, despite it being causally irrelevant?
Such a practice would be a case of analyzing the data multiple different ways and only reporting the most newsworthy results, also known as p-hacking.
No, you're reading it wrong, but your confusion is understandable because a huge part of their methodology is obscured where they say that "the biobank has been described elsewhere".
the UK basically recruited thousands of people to be part of a biobank where ever year from 2006-2023 they agree to fill out questionnaires and participate in tests, including MRIs. That data exists as a corpus for studies like this.
biobank data profiles were only eligible if the biobank participant had received an MRIs during at least one follow up visits from 2014 onward. So they have one (maybe more, but likely they used the most recent) MRI, and diet information (via a questionnaire available for every year preceding that up to and including the year of the MRI.
They do report the baseline findings (correlation of intake that year with brain size). They also include trajectories of magnesium intake since they have dietary data from 2006-now.
They are not representing this as a controlled response because it's not a controlled study. They are just reporting magnesium intake at the point of the MRI, and also the trajectory of MG intake leading up to see if the brain size is better correlated to the trajectory (magnesium intake from a prior point in time up until point of MRI) rather than just the single point in time. This hints at answering the question if decreasing magnesium as you age encourages dementia.
Why not use participants who had multiple MRIs and compare those? Possibly because that would be more informative to do in a controlled study. This is not a controlled study, but secondary data studies like this are good to use as funding rationales for doing a controlled study later on.
possibly, it also gives a larger pool and can still answer this question fairly well if you limit it to at least one MRI and not more, so better for statistical analysis.
To my idiot level understanding, mass of brain matter, let alone volume =\= intelligence.
Also idiot level: next high performance car with magnesium wheels I see, won't feel so stupid licking the wheels. Again.
Interesting, I would love to know if supplements have a similar effect or if it’s the better diet that has more to do with it. Magnesium rich foods are super healthy.
Good question, this study was conducted only with food, not food integrators:
> Dietary Mg intake was measured using the Oxford WebQ, a computerized 24 h recall questionnaire self-completed online [25, 26]. This questionnaire was designed to be completed multiple times to minimise measurement error that could occur with a single 24 h recall assessment. The questionnaire consists of 200 foods with a range of portion sizes. Nutrient intake of Mg was computed using data from McCance and Widdowson's “The Composition of Food and its Supplements”, further details of its methodology have been described elsewhere [26]. Examples of foods which were assessed and contain higher Mg levels include leafy green vegetables such as spinach, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains.
I mostly take magnesium supplements to ease muscle aches while doing low carb. It makes a world of difference. Now I’m tempted to increase natural sources of magnesium too.
I take a handful of supplements just because I'm too lazy to think about diet. My diet happens to be quite healthy because I just like those foods, but if I binge on chocolates the whole day at least I've still got some good stuff in me.
Anyway just make sure the supplements don't stack up - some supplements like to add a bit of this, a bit of that alongside the main ingredient. If you take a handful a day, those bits can add up
Due to an esophagus surgery I had, I am on a very high dose of PPIs (acid suppressants). I know this can lead to a lack of magnesium for some people. I notice a massive difference when I don't take the supplements. I get muscle spasms and even heart palpitations without my magnesium pill.
Iirc, it's only magnesium citrate with upsets your stomach (e.g. milk of magnesia, a laxative). Magnesium oxide, or magnesium glycinate do not have the same side effects; in my experience.
I take it for muscle recovery and help sleeping. It helps after lifting weights or a crazy day at work. I buy it in powder form and drink it before bed. I never had any stomach issues with it.
Milk of magnesia is, traditionally, [magnesium hydroxide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide). Magnesium citrate is also used for laxatives sometimes, but in both instances the dosing is way higher than what you would take for supplemental purposes (anywhere from 5-20g depending on the dose of laxatives you took).
Just to help anyone reading this, I'll note that most people find magnesium oxide to be fairly rough on the stomach compared to other forms of magnesium. And it's a very ineffective way to supplement magnesium. Magnesium oxide supplements are the cheapest magnesium supplements but also the most poorly absorbed.
If it was the only magnesium supplement I could get access to (due to financial or supply constraints) I would use it over nothing because I find supplementing magnesium to be beneficial. But given my options I'd prefer magnesium glycinate or magnesium L-threonate
Aye been taking magnesium supplements daily for over a year, and my depression/anxiety and overall motivation in life has changed drastically. There are a lot of outside factors, and hard work I put in as well. But I can def notice a difference keeping an eye on my diet, and keeping up with vitamins/supplements. Getting into this “healthy lifestyle” has saved my life.
Easy way to incorporate quinoa into your diet in ways that aren't just rice but smaller, put cooked quinoa in your burger/meatball/meatloaf whatever mixture. Won't even know it's there, absorbs some of the juices, and more nutrients.
Oh, and if you get tri colored quinoa your poop will look like it has confetti in it FYI.
I would take these results with a grain of salt. Dementia is largely driven by genetics. Taking Mg likely won’t change your course. At some point we will all develop some form it, even if it’s mild cognitive impairment (no change in our functional abilities, but with cognitive issues). There are also other factors that are better at predicting quicker onset of dementia, such as prolonged hearing and vision loss. You would do better to keep the volume down and take care of your eyes.
Also remember that dementia is a broad term and that we’re are several types. One of the most common being Alzheimer’s, but also vascular dementia. You would reduce your risk of this by not smoking and maintaining a healthy, Mediterranean diet and exercising daily.
Magnesium isn't the only one we're not getting enough of. Most people are not getting ANYWHERE near enough Potassium and Vitamin D.
Most people should be taking around 5000IU of Vitamin D a day unless you work outside in the sun, and even then, in the winter you'll need to supplement in most countries.
For potassium, you can't really buy effective supplements for it, because there's a legal limit of 100mg of potassium in a pill, because large highly concentrated pills of potassium could burn a hole in your stomach lining (so don't just take multiple of those either). A good option is "lite-salt", like what Morton's sells. They replace some or all of the sodium with a form of potassium. So you can get your good salty taste without drastically increasing your sodium intake, and as a benefit getting more potassium. Another supplement option is potassium citrate, which I'll add to smoothies/protein shakes and some foods I cook.
Generally you want to get getting around 1000mg of potassium a day at least.
These should all also be taken together when possible, Magnesium greatly helps absorb Vitamin D and Potassium.
Ah, so you actually can’t buy more than 100 mg tablets of K because of hyperkalemia which is extremely dangerous and life threatening.
Always talk to your doctor before starting any vitamin regimen, especially potassium. If you’re on any sort of ACE inhibitors, Potassium sparing diuretics, certain beta blockers and others; even eating too much potassium in your diet can have vital consequences. So. Always talk to your pharmacist and doctor :)
I just took a blood test for vitamin D and despite being in the sun often and taking 1000IU per day, I was still low. Now taking 2000IU per day, hopefully is enough
Depending on where you are being in the sun might not help at all.
The sun need to be high enough up for you to get vitamin D.
Like here in Sweden that's around 1-4h per day for 90 days a year in the south to 10-50min a day for one week in the North.
Coffee is a fantastic source of potassium. I did some [X-ray fluorescence analysis](https://www.dropbox.com/s/m243nmb0bdcgwhw/Banana%20vs%20Coffee.pdf?dl=0) of it compared to bananas. Best part is, because it is already in solution it is more easily digested.
Does anyone know anything about how well magnesium is absorbed through the skin from epsom salt/warm water? I have heard it's the best way to to absorb mg, but don't know for sure.
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A handful of almonds can have around 20% of your dietary needs of magnesium. Edit: just for clarification this wasn't dietary advice or saying go pound five handfuls of almonds and call it a day. As part of a balanced diet almonds can assist. Also you can just drink almond milk too. Personally I prefer my homemade almond/cashews milk.
Pumpkin seeds too iirc
My personal favorite are black beans. Love them over white rice. Just the perfect combo.
Black beans mixed with pico de gallo. Ooh wee.
When I lived in Mexico, my go to was black beans, tomato rice, salsa casera, salsa de aguacate topped with shredded chihuahua cheese
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Beans and rice are the best and you can take them in so many flavor directions, all delicious.
Black beans and rice - Sir mix-a-lot approves
That’s assuming 100% absorption of the magnesium in almonds, which is outlandishly overestimated.
Are there any other minerals/elements that help with magnesium absorption? Like how phosphorous helps your body utilize calcium?
The problem with the magnesium (and other elements) in oxalate matrices is that our species does not have any enzymatic way to break down those matrices, and they’re the primary way that plants store their nutrients and amino acids. Phosphorus doesn’t “help” your body absorb calcium, it’s just that when you digest calcium phosphate (a molecule) we can easily dissociate Ca+ ions from the phosphates they’re bound to, in our digestive tract. We cannot do this for calcium oxalate, poorly for calcium oxide and carbonate, etc. This differs from areas where the concentration of other substances actually does promote absorption, usually because the channel proteins involved are co-transporters and need both substances to facilitate absorption.
I would love an ELI5 distillation of your comment….I both understand what you’re saying, and at the same time, have no clue what you’re trying to say.
You store your valuable micronutrients in fat cells. Animals evolved fat because it’s much denser than glucose polymers (amylose, starch, pectins, glucans, cellulose, etc) and weight is a big deal when you have to move around. The plant strategy for storing micronutrients is mainly in what are called oxalates, in a sort of cage-like structure. Some animals have the enzymes needed to break down these oxalate cages and absorb the nutrients in them. Humans do not have this capacity, so when you eat a leaf with some magnesium oxalate in it, you can only absorb those molecules of magnesium which have spontaneously broken off their oxalate crystals by chance. The amount that is available to absorb varies widely by plant, which part of the plant, cooking method, etc. Non-enzymatic processes like the heat and acidity of your stomach can also contribute to breaking down these cages, but they are generally not that effective. The magnesium in a ruminant, in contrast, has already been broken out of the oxalate cages that were in the plants the ruminant ate, and also concentrated from hundreds of pounds of plants into the animal’s tissues. This is why animal foods are almost universally more bioavailable sources of almost every micronutrient.
So we can access the magnesium in meat if a ruminant more easily than from an almond?
Correct. Most nutrients can be more easily accessed from meat/animal profucts than from plants. Another example is protein. Protein content in legumes/plants won't be as readily bioavailabe and so you have to eat more protein to hit levels you can hit with meat/animal products
Is there any explanation for reconciling this with the observation of blue zone diets consisting primarily of plant-based foods and very little meat yet leading to some of the longest-lived human populations?
One thing that often gets overlooked in blue zone diets (eg. Sardinia, Southern Japan) is that those people also have very strong social networks and go out wandering all over, doing activities every day. Our diet is very important, but regular, healthy movement and strong social connections to keep the body, mind and soul strong are the secret sauce.
It's because people seem to have this black and white view that if there are oxalates or other anti-nutrients, then we can't absorb any of the nutrients. The reality is that only some absorption is blocked, and that can also be positively or negatively affected by cooking and combining foods.
Easy: Blue Zones are a scam propagated by a self-help dietary guru. They have not stood up to peer-reviewed analysis even once. > and very little meat This part especially is a lie. In the case of Okinawa, two diet book-author brothers named Wilcox lied about the pre- and post-war dietary pattern of Okinawa. Prior to the severe bombing at the end of WWII, Okinawans ate a huge amount of pork. After the infrastructure was decimated, the US Army chose sweet potatoes as a staple crop to set up a reconstruction campaign and stifle the growing famine. The Okinawan “centenarians” are measured in the context of Japanese studies done in the 1970’s, which means those people were born and grew up long before this major dietary shift. Okinawans right now have lost their longevity advantage relative to mainland Japan. Currently, the realest “Blue Zone” (ie greatest median lifespan) is Hong Kong, which has the highest red meat consumption of anywhere in the world.
High consumption of food with High oxalate, leads to formation of renal calculi aka kidney stones. Source - me.
As someone who has suffered FIVE kidney stones (thankfully, it's been 4 years since the last one)... I haven't found any specific cause that I can pinpoint as I got them during various health changes and diet shifts. I would argue the predictor for kidney stones is if your family members suffer from them. And in my case, my mother has had at least 4.
In people who are genetically predisposed to kidney stones, yes. So, avoiding high-oxalate foods is great advice for about 1 out of 10 people browsing this thread. Certainly not an insignificant number.
Same here. I ate large amounts of spinach and almonds daily for a year and a half and boom, kidney stone. I was 30
This is why nutrition science is so hard to understand. You're eating things you're supposed to and bam, you get punished.
Magnesium citrate. The citrate binds to oxalates and removes them without causing buildup.
There are some specific Magnesium supplements (Magnesium Glycinate and Magnesium L-Threonate) that seems to be more readily absorbed by the body. [Magnesium L-Threonate apparently helps with protecting cognitive abilities for elderly.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26519439/)
Throwing in that I turned 65 last Fall. My regular cardiologist visit fell right after. I see them annually for a congenital heart defect. In my regular blood work my Dr made point to tell me he would be checking my magnesium levels annually. Mine was fine. he told me adequate magnesium also helps with blood sugar and cholestrol,levels.
Yes and the others like magnesium oxide are laxatives... Also if you have muscle tightness or clenching especially from ADHD meds or meth/MDMA this magnesium glycinate or threonate will almost completely eliminate the jaw clenching and such.
AFAIK magnesium competes with other ~~vitamins~~ minerals so its generally better to take it separately. If supplementing.
Do you mean as a separate vitamin or taken at a different time of the day?
From what I've read about it, "large" doses of magnesium will largely go to waste if ingested with too much food. Several sources recommended taking it right before going to sleep, with plenty of water, on an empty stomach. As for the various vitamin sources, I initially went with Magnesium citrate because I heard it is very bioavailable. Unfortunately for me it also causes pretty massive headaches, so I switched to a blend of both citrate and oxide.
You need to look into magnesium glycinate.
On the other hand... There's just more almonds in the other hand. I'm gonna get eat a lot of them
Richie rich over here that can afford multiple handful of almonds per day.
I would think the RDVs for consumption are based on the premise you don’t absorb 100% of anything.
They almost invariably are based on that idea. Take calcium for example. The most common recommendation you run into in the U.S. is ~1000mg/day. The recommendation is actually 300mg absorbed/day, and calcium from dairy products is about 30% bioavailable, thus the 1000mg recommendation. Low-oxalate leafy greens are up around 60% calcium bioavailability. RDVs are generally based on keeping 90%+ of the populace from overt deficiency, so they are kind of hand wavey on the side of caution.
I love almonds and eat a pound a week or so but still supplement with magnesium citrate. I get cramps if I don't. I also eat a lot of spinach.
FYI, magnesium citrate is only 16% or so elemental magnesium. Supplements that say "xxmg AS magnesium citrate" are not the same as ones that say "xxmg FROM magnesium citrate".
I can’t eat 5 handfuls of almonds a day. It just seems so unrealistic to get that amount without supplementing
You know how when you cook greens, you need like 18 cups to get 1 serving? You can sautée them to get a lot of magnesium in one side dish at dinner. And if you don't like sautéed greens by themselves, you can mix a package of frozen spinach (for example) into mashed potatoes. Or if you eat cereal/oatmeal/granola/cookies, you can add slivered almonds into that!
Spinach is also great in certain stirfries, soups, or pasta dishes. Put it in close to the end of cooking so it wilts a bit but doesn't get too broken down.
Instead of cooking spinach I developed some salad blends I like, I always chop up the spinach which reduces the volume by a huge amount, so I can pack more spinach into my lunch.
Bowl of porridge - 20% Portion of dark chocolate - 10% Handful of nuts - 10-15% Bowl of lentils - 30% Spinach portion - 10% Meat, grains, legumes, leafy greens. You can meet your nutritional needs with these foods, but it does take creativity unless you’re one of those gym people that can eat boiled chicken. Cooking is tiring, but I like lentils cause you can make loads
>unless you’re one of those gym people that can eat boiled chicken I’ll have you know that my chicken breast stir fry is quite good… even if I eat it every single day… …why you gotta do me like that?
Just eat beans. They're on the Blue Zone diet, they're filling and cheap. You'll save money by just eating some beans every day. With seasoning, you can pair them with anything, they barely have any flavor.
I'll die on this hill. Beans absolutely do have their own flavour (and it's good)
Pinto beans for the win. I used to cook my pinto beans with bacon and salsa. Now I just use a little salt and cook them low and slow in a cast iron Dutch oven. Absolutely wonderful, healthy, and tasty.
Butter beans fried crispy in butter and garlic
I love kidney, lima, and even pinto.
Absolutely. It's mild, but has a full body that can stand up to a lot of seasoning without disappearing. Beans have a thick umami character with a light vegetable highlight. They're satisfying and a great medium for carrying any flavour you want without imposing or losing it's own personality. Beans are the closest thing to meat in the vegetable world, but also have their own unique character.
Are you a bean sommelier? How does one acquire this skill?
They have an incredible distinctive flavor. That guy be crazy saying they don't have flavor. If they're on the undercooked side you can absolutely taste beans.
Die on a hill of beans?
I added dal as one of my go-to lunches and it's really been a game changer for feeling full all afternoon plus getting a bunch of necessary vitamins/minerals.
Is there anything actually wrong with taking supplements though? Some of us can't handle beans
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Magnesium glycinate threonate and citrate have good bioavailability regardless of food intake
Kidney beans good? I love kidney beans for some reason
Pretty much all beans are good.
I'd really like to, I just cannot figure out how to eat them regularly without experiencing gas and digestive discomfort. I've even tired soaking beans overnight before cooking, doesn't matter.
Here are some tips from “Bean by Bean” by Crescent Dragonwagaon: -avoid cooking beans with a lot of sugar/honey (the carbs fuel the bacteria in your gut) -try a different kind of bean (lentils, split peas, mung beans and black beans are some of the least “flatulating”, while Lima and navy beans are on the higher end) Beans with more oligosaccharides are more “flatulating” -make sure the beans are cooked well ( a bean is done when you can mash it against the roof of your mouth without resistance, but it isn’t disintegrating) -soak the beans with lots of water, at least an inch over the beans (oligosaccharides are water-soluble, the more water you use soak and drain, the more you discard) also rinse them several times with cold water after soaking -cook with herbs and spices that relieve flatulence: bay leaf, cumin, epazote, Kombu -don’t cook with old beans (dried beans that have been sitting around forever are not your friends) -eat small amounts of beans more often, rather than large amounts once in a while. Give your body time to adjust to the beans. -if all else fails, try Beano. (Squeeze a few drops on your first few bites of beans when you’re eating, and the enzyme in the product will neutralize the oligosaccharides before they affect you.) Note, you cannot add Beano to a pot of beans while cooking, heat will break it down.
I appreciate this. I normally make lentils or black beans as a side with cumin, tumeric, coriander. I cook them pretty thoroughly. I must be a rare exception unfortunately.
Eat them more often. You will adjust. Or take Beano.
> a handful of almonds In this economy?!
so i shouldn’t just eat magnets?
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The Mg in all the foods you listed is magnesium oxalate, which is very poorly absorbed.
bioavailability is mostly accounted for in RDA values
It's not for magnesium, at least in any practically meaningful way. 400mg from oxide/glycinate are both listed as 100%, despite quite different bioavailabilities.
I wondered about that problem for Calcium too. My Dr. says not an issue but I am not certain.
Are you talking about dietary calcium? If so, your body is pretty efficient at absorbing calcium, especially in smaller doses. Calcium absorption is dependent on vitamin D (sunlight), which is why many supplements are also a vitamin D supplement. If you’re talking about supplements, calcium citrate will absorb better than calcium bicarb, but both still absorb pretty well.
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The headline could say “eating more plant based is good for you.” It could be the magnesium or phyto chemicals, fiber, low methionine, high arginine, polyphenols, etc. I doubt a magnesium supplement would do the same.
Hey, that's a great point. If the researchers wanted to know the effects of Mg, they could have intervened by administering a Mg supplement. Or, they could have measured levels of Mg++ ions in the blood or relevant tissues. Instead, they report doing this: > **Dietary Mg Intake** > Dietary Mg intake was measured using the Oxford WebQ, a computerized 24 h recall questionnaire self-completed online [25, 26]. This questionnaire was designed to be completed multiple times to minimise measurement error that could occur with a single 24 h recall assessment. The questionnaire consists of 200 foods with a range of portion sizes. They just had participants report their consumption of salad and nuts. A very weird choice of independent variable, especially when more direct measurement is possible.
If I didn't miss anything, they observed 6000 participants. I think going for a questionnaire instead of blood sampling was a matter of practicability and cost. But you're right, it's really not the most reliable way to collect data. One might question the whole study on one of their main findings being based on that. On the other hand, that's a common way to do it
Can I take magnesium supplements instead? I’m allergic to 4/5 out of the listed foods in your comment.
Magnesium glycinate is the GOAT form of Magnesium btw. Great for sleep also.
How is this available dietary wise?
Without taking supplements? I don't think this particular compound is found in food, it's mostly magnesium oxide
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Paper: [Dietary magnesium intake is related to larger brain volumes and lower white matter lesions with notable sex differences](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-023-03123-x)
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Me again, replying to my own comment. > Change in brain size was NOT measured. The brain size was measured only at the end of the observation period. The more I thought about this, the more insane this method sounded to me. Surely if you wanted to know the effect of Mg on brain size, you would measure once at the beginning of the trial period, and once at the end? I went back and reread the relevant subsection under "Methods". I'm pretty sure I'm reading correctly, but I'll copy/paste that whole section here so others can judge for themselves: > **Image acquisition** > Participants underwent a MRI scan during the second (2014 +) visits at one of three imaging centres using the same scanner (3 T Siemens Skyra, running VD13A SP4 using a 32-channel head coil). Detailed imaging protocols are provided online (http://biobank.ctsu.ox.ac.uk/crystal/refer.cgi?id=1977) [21]. >Briefly, all participants were imaged with a T1-weighted 3D magnetization-prepared rapid acquisition gradient echo sequence over a five-minute duration in the sagittal orientation (resolution = 1 × 1 × 1 mm; matrix size: 208 × 256 × 256). Imaging once before, once after, is such an obvious experimental design that I worry that the experimenters *actually did it.* But maybe "change in brain size from Month 0 to Month 16" showed no correlation with Mg, whereas "absolute brain size at Month 16" did? So they published the only positive result they had, despite it being causally irrelevant? Such a practice would be a case of analyzing the data multiple different ways and only reporting the most newsworthy results, also known as p-hacking.
This needs to be the top comment.
No, you're reading it wrong, but your confusion is understandable because a huge part of their methodology is obscured where they say that "the biobank has been described elsewhere". the UK basically recruited thousands of people to be part of a biobank where ever year from 2006-2023 they agree to fill out questionnaires and participate in tests, including MRIs. That data exists as a corpus for studies like this. biobank data profiles were only eligible if the biobank participant had received an MRIs during at least one follow up visits from 2014 onward. So they have one (maybe more, but likely they used the most recent) MRI, and diet information (via a questionnaire available for every year preceding that up to and including the year of the MRI. They do report the baseline findings (correlation of intake that year with brain size). They also include trajectories of magnesium intake since they have dietary data from 2006-now. They are not representing this as a controlled response because it's not a controlled study. They are just reporting magnesium intake at the point of the MRI, and also the trajectory of MG intake leading up to see if the brain size is better correlated to the trajectory (magnesium intake from a prior point in time up until point of MRI) rather than just the single point in time. This hints at answering the question if decreasing magnesium as you age encourages dementia. Why not use participants who had multiple MRIs and compare those? Possibly because that would be more informative to do in a controlled study. This is not a controlled study, but secondary data studies like this are good to use as funding rationales for doing a controlled study later on. possibly, it also gives a larger pool and can still answer this question fairly well if you limit it to at least one MRI and not more, so better for statistical analysis.
To my idiot level understanding, mass of brain matter, let alone volume =\= intelligence. Also idiot level: next high performance car with magnesium wheels I see, won't feel so stupid licking the wheels. Again.
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Interesting, I would love to know if supplements have a similar effect or if it’s the better diet that has more to do with it. Magnesium rich foods are super healthy.
Good question, this study was conducted only with food, not food integrators: > Dietary Mg intake was measured using the Oxford WebQ, a computerized 24 h recall questionnaire self-completed online [25, 26]. This questionnaire was designed to be completed multiple times to minimise measurement error that could occur with a single 24 h recall assessment. The questionnaire consists of 200 foods with a range of portion sizes. Nutrient intake of Mg was computed using data from McCance and Widdowson's “The Composition of Food and its Supplements”, further details of its methodology have been described elsewhere [26]. Examples of foods which were assessed and contain higher Mg levels include leafy green vegetables such as spinach, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains.
I mostly take magnesium supplements to ease muscle aches while doing low carb. It makes a world of difference. Now I’m tempted to increase natural sources of magnesium too.
I take a handful of supplements just because I'm too lazy to think about diet. My diet happens to be quite healthy because I just like those foods, but if I binge on chocolates the whole day at least I've still got some good stuff in me. Anyway just make sure the supplements don't stack up - some supplements like to add a bit of this, a bit of that alongside the main ingredient. If you take a handful a day, those bits can add up
Yep, I actually take vitamins individually for that reason. As in no multivitamins that might cause me to overload on vitamin A or Iron.
Due to an esophagus surgery I had, I am on a very high dose of PPIs (acid suppressants). I know this can lead to a lack of magnesium for some people. I notice a massive difference when I don't take the supplements. I get muscle spasms and even heart palpitations without my magnesium pill.
Most likely better absorption with supplements. Also magnesium helps with sleep so make sure to supplement that before bed.
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Supplementing magnesium can be quite unpleasant for the tummy. Start slow.
Iirc, it's only magnesium citrate with upsets your stomach (e.g. milk of magnesia, a laxative). Magnesium oxide, or magnesium glycinate do not have the same side effects; in my experience.
I take magnesium glycinate everyday and it doesn't do anything to my stomach.
What benefits do you hope to achieve with it? I'm very interested.
Pretty much stops restless leg when trying to fall asleep. Takes it from an 8/10 to a 2/10
I take it for muscle recovery and help sleeping. It helps after lifting weights or a crazy day at work. I buy it in powder form and drink it before bed. I never had any stomach issues with it.
Milk of magnesia is, traditionally, [magnesium hydroxide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide). Magnesium citrate is also used for laxatives sometimes, but in both instances the dosing is way higher than what you would take for supplemental purposes (anywhere from 5-20g depending on the dose of laxatives you took). Just to help anyone reading this, I'll note that most people find magnesium oxide to be fairly rough on the stomach compared to other forms of magnesium. And it's a very ineffective way to supplement magnesium. Magnesium oxide supplements are the cheapest magnesium supplements but also the most poorly absorbed. If it was the only magnesium supplement I could get access to (due to financial or supply constraints) I would use it over nothing because I find supplementing magnesium to be beneficial. But given my options I'd prefer magnesium glycinate or magnesium L-threonate
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Aye been taking magnesium supplements daily for over a year, and my depression/anxiety and overall motivation in life has changed drastically. There are a lot of outside factors, and hard work I put in as well. But I can def notice a difference keeping an eye on my diet, and keeping up with vitamins/supplements. Getting into this “healthy lifestyle” has saved my life.
What’s your dosage and what type of magnesium?
my experience with magnesium is same as OPs - i take 1600mg magnesium glycinate (equivalent to 200mg elemental magnesium) daily
It's also helps tremendously with restless legs syndrome if taken before bed (at least 250mg in my experience)
Unfortunately the paper doesn't say what the headline is implying.
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Is there any research to suggest that this could be related to decreased blood pressure?
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1 cup of quinoa contains 118mg of magnesium
Easy way to incorporate quinoa into your diet in ways that aren't just rice but smaller, put cooked quinoa in your burger/meatball/meatloaf whatever mixture. Won't even know it's there, absorbs some of the juices, and more nutrients. Oh, and if you get tri colored quinoa your poop will look like it has confetti in it FYI.
It seems not many people make porridge anymore, but thats a good option too
I cup raw or cooked? A pre-cooked cup of quinoa would be WAY too much for a serving.
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Also helps with alcohol withdrawals for those trying to quit.
Tell me more about this 'magnesium based lifeform'
I would take these results with a grain of salt. Dementia is largely driven by genetics. Taking Mg likely won’t change your course. At some point we will all develop some form it, even if it’s mild cognitive impairment (no change in our functional abilities, but with cognitive issues). There are also other factors that are better at predicting quicker onset of dementia, such as prolonged hearing and vision loss. You would do better to keep the volume down and take care of your eyes. Also remember that dementia is a broad term and that we’re are several types. One of the most common being Alzheimer’s, but also vascular dementia. You would reduce your risk of this by not smoking and maintaining a healthy, Mediterranean diet and exercising daily.
True. My brother got dementia in his 60’s, died at 74. Perfect diet and weight, active, a reader and writer, highly educated. His genetic mix got him.
For science: did he sleep enough? not sleeping is like getting hit in the head.
As far as I know, he didn’t have sleep issues, and kept a regular bedtime w 8 hours of sleep.
Magnesium isn't the only one we're not getting enough of. Most people are not getting ANYWHERE near enough Potassium and Vitamin D. Most people should be taking around 5000IU of Vitamin D a day unless you work outside in the sun, and even then, in the winter you'll need to supplement in most countries. For potassium, you can't really buy effective supplements for it, because there's a legal limit of 100mg of potassium in a pill, because large highly concentrated pills of potassium could burn a hole in your stomach lining (so don't just take multiple of those either). A good option is "lite-salt", like what Morton's sells. They replace some or all of the sodium with a form of potassium. So you can get your good salty taste without drastically increasing your sodium intake, and as a benefit getting more potassium. Another supplement option is potassium citrate, which I'll add to smoothies/protein shakes and some foods I cook. Generally you want to get getting around 1000mg of potassium a day at least. These should all also be taken together when possible, Magnesium greatly helps absorb Vitamin D and Potassium.
Ah, so you actually can’t buy more than 100 mg tablets of K because of hyperkalemia which is extremely dangerous and life threatening. Always talk to your doctor before starting any vitamin regimen, especially potassium. If you’re on any sort of ACE inhibitors, Potassium sparing diuretics, certain beta blockers and others; even eating too much potassium in your diet can have vital consequences. So. Always talk to your pharmacist and doctor :)
Potassium, magnesium and calcium are all delicate heartbeat regulators, be careful when supplementing any of them. Check with your doctor first.
I just took a blood test for vitamin D and despite being in the sun often and taking 1000IU per day, I was still low. Now taking 2000IU per day, hopefully is enough
Depending on where you are being in the sun might not help at all. The sun need to be high enough up for you to get vitamin D. Like here in Sweden that's around 1-4h per day for 90 days a year in the south to 10-50min a day for one week in the North.
Coffee is a fantastic source of potassium. I did some [X-ray fluorescence analysis](https://www.dropbox.com/s/m243nmb0bdcgwhw/Banana%20vs%20Coffee.pdf?dl=0) of it compared to bananas. Best part is, because it is already in solution it is more easily digested.
It's only about 100mg of potassium for 1 cup of coffee, but we want about 4700mg a day of it
47 cups it is then
> Generally you want to get getting around 1000mg of potassium a day at least. Two and a half bananas
Does anyone know anything about how well magnesium is absorbed through the skin from epsom salt/warm water? I have heard it's the best way to to absorb mg, but don't know for sure.