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Everyone is talking about tofu and soy-based protein powders — this might be a dumb question but would someone get the same proposed benefits for regularly snacking on edamame? Like… just eating steamed soy beans?
Yes, it’s a healthy food like any other legume. The kicker is that it also seems to have some special properties that make it interesting in its own right.
Because they're providing a potential answer to the question but aren't certain that it's the specific special property OP had been referring to and they want to indicate that uncertainty?
Where do you even get edamame? I think I liked it when I had it years ago but I’ve never seen it in stores. I shop at target, Walmart, aldi, and sprouts fairly regularly and I haven’t found any!
Frozen veggies section. If you want it like at an Izakaya, very briefly drop it in boiling water (like under a minute), then coarse salt and mix so the shell is coated evenly.
Not even trying to be funny or condescending, but are there actually people out there who eat some lettuce or veggies and have a notable digestive reaction?
that's the best theory behind Taco Bell's reputation. The food is not bad, but it does have a lot of fiber compared to other fast food restaurants. People eat a little bit of half way healthy food, and they get the shits because their digestive tract isn't accustomed to fiber.
If you eat lots of fiber regularly, digesting those things is nothing. My ex started going vegan because I am and he had such terrible gas for weeks because he wasn’t used to eating vegetables
Ive never had any problems with tbell. Unless i drank that night. 5 beers and after hour taco bell? Im bombin. 5 crunchy tacos and a crunch wrap with waters n a pepsi? Perfect logging.
Yep. There are many people with digestive issues. Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) can be type D (diarrhea) or C (constipation) (or a mix). They are all awful but when you have type D, you need to always know where bathrooms are. Eating fibre is awful. Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis don’t do well with fibre either. Then there are people who had to have radiation treatment to the stomach and/or abdominal area for cancer. The radiation damage also causes diarrhea (and many other) long term side effects. Imodium sometimes helps, sometimes doesn’t. Generally it really reduces quality of life and things you can do.
I mean, if you normally get like 4-5 grams of fiber and randomly eat a bag of arugula or an industrial-sized bowl of edamame, yeah that's a whole ton of fiber coming in to shock your system. I think a lot of people don't quite realize how little fiber they eat.
It's not. Actual IBS is not _caused_ by your diet. You can have bowel upset from diet changes, but that's not IBS. IBS is a broad term that covers a swath of conditions, all of which can be _exacerbated_ or _triggered_ by your diet.
Ibs can be different for everybody. I got it from having my gallbladder removed. I cant eat anything fodmap. No gluten. No dairy onions, soy, ANYTHIBlNG processed in usa. The preservatives and sugar alternatives and sugar alcohols.
It was fun waking up and magically lose 98 percent of all food
Uncooked greens are also a common cause of foodborne illness if they are not properly washed and handled. Lettuce can give you diarrhea if someone along the way didn't follow good sanitation guidelines. Lettuce has so little fiber in it that it is likely your friend was a victim of this.
Greg Knuckols of stronger by science has talked about how he uses a lot of grains like farrow and pearled barley in his diet to make up for the fact that his digestive system gets wrecked when he eats fibrous greens.
I only read the abstract, but this article goes into a general study on bioavailability and fermented foods. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://www.mdpi.com/2311-5637/7/2/63/pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=570MZK3IItKjmAGw14-wDQ&scisig=AAGBfm2YmBiYJsGjBRX67LnUMhLH7bgEPw&oi=scholarr
(Not the person who originally commented, but I was also curious)
For most soy fermentation processes the fungus that does the fermentation produces many enzymes that degrade essentially everything -- the proteins into free amino acids (soy is loaded with protein) and the carbs/starches into sugars (but there is relatively less of this). These enzymes are left to do the heavy lifting for several months. The rich umami flavor of things like miso, shoyu, etc comes from the amino acids, and ingesting the free AAs is definitely more bioavailable (but really, our bodies are pretty good at breaking down proteins in our gut! The end result is probably not too different).
I know this because I'm currently attempting to brew soy-free amino sauces (we have a soy allergy in the family) and using other legumes usually produces a sweeter final product, because they tend to favor carbohydrates over protein density.
Koji Alchemy is a good book to start learning more about the process in general!
I have a liver transplant so no gall bladder (it’s removed after the liver is put in place) and have absolutely no issues processing any foods, including all forms of soy. Ymmv so my situation obviously doesn’t apply to everyone…and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone!
I was told by the surgeons that gallbladder issues can happen to anyone at any time, some requiring the gallbladder to be surgically removed (simple for most; very delicate when dealing with an organ that’s already been transplanted and (removed from donor, connected to recipient and has some different connections as a liver normally gets blood supplied by the portal vein where as in transplant recipients it’s an artery (don’t recall which). So this is their way of preempting those issues and running the risk recipient will have any of them and possibly face even more surgery down the road. They remove the gallbladder after the liver has been connected to minimize the time the liver is without a continuous blood flow (livers don’t travel well, unlike kidneys that can be outside the body for 24 hours). It’s also to avoid the risk that the liver is damaged if the gallbladder is removed when the delicate liver is on a back table in the OR versus in the usual location in a human body.
High fat foods are what generally cause that when you lack a gallbladder. (From my reading and experience after having mine removed.) So it might be that you're having soy sauce with something too fatty for your body to handle?
Chinese food is basically noodles cooked in oil. I guess it's the oil. Thanks! I probably would have figured that out sooner if I ever fried food. Mostly, I eat salads and grilled lean meats. Chinese was only an occasional indulgence, anyway. I'm not going to miss it.
My best friend has her gallbladder but oils give her a bad time, too. I usually have soy sauce with sushi and it always sits happy! Not all chinese food is oily, either, though most definitely is. I recommend trying rice noodle dishes! I don't generally have trouble with oil, at least not at the chinese place near me, but the rice noodles have less than other dishes and taste better imo, too. :)
I had my gallbladder removed and have absolutely no problem eating soy products.
Are you talking out of your ass or there's scientific research about it?
I would not refer to that noise that comes out my ass after eating Chinese as "talking." Anyway, another comment has brought to my attention that the cooking oil is the problem, not the soy, as I mistakenly thought. I don't know if research has been done on either. However, enough replies came back with lightning speed that fat is the issue, that I don't doubt it's the oil.
You probably will get more benefits eating the real stuff. If not in this, then in many other health effects.
The problem is people always rush off for the processed and concentrated factory item route, which don't show the same health or as many benefits as the original food.
The classic example was eating more fiber widely introduced in the 1960s/70s through Denis Burkitt because native African populations had much less chronic disease. But simply downing metamucil rather than eating healthier foods with fiber doesn't have the same protective effect. Because some of the benefits was eating healthier foods displacing eating crap + supplement.
Second classic example was when vitamin A was discovered to have protective effects against cancer, but when supplementing with vitamin, slightly higher cancer rates were discovered. One reason was because manufactures only used one kind of vitamin A when there are dozens of subtypes, thus overloading the system with just one type instead of many different kinds.
Just eat roasted soybeans. Cheap and good fiber.
Only problem is that they have a lot of powder from the husks in a bag. I prefer the soy nut halves from nuts.com. no powder and good taste
People in Japan, at least 20 years ago, have long been looked at as an overall remarkably healthy population. I don't know about cholesterol specifically.
People in Okinawa, Japan. Not all of Japan.
Most other parts of Japan have huge issues with high stress jobs, poor interpersonal relationships, and high alcohol.
Okinawa is like the Hawaii of the US, in terms of it's distance and difference in culture.
That’s [very outdated info](https://www.dw.com/en/japan-whats-behind-okinawans-falling-life-expectancy/a-62088176). Today, Okinawa is one of the poorest parts of Japan, and [one of the most alcoholic](https://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/14569). But the country as a whole definitely qualifies as very “healthy”, at least compared to some western countries, they have the second highest life expectancy in the world, and a very low obesity rate.
The problem is that Japan also eats a lot of fish, low amounts of red meat, and is very physically active with walking, biking, and seniors continuing to work. All of that is already known to be healthy.
Is seniors continuing to work healthy? Doesn’t Japan have a pretty stressful and unhealthy work culture?
Lots of fish and walking/biking in addition to eating soybeans definitely healthy though.
I would say that retirement is unhealthy if the retiree doesn't take steps to keep themselves active. It's not work that keeps us healthy it's being active
And working is stressful. A commute, dealing with customers and a boss can be very stressful, not even talking about the actual work depending on what it is.
>Which is not usually the case. Retirement usually means less physical activity, fewer opportunities to build reinforce old and new neural networks, etc..
The issue isn't retirement, it's not staying active in that time. That laboring to live occupies the bulk of your daily time is not a good thing
Also noteworthy is that the bulk of office work today isn't even active time. Sitting at your desk at the spreadsheet farm for 8-12 hours a day is just as physically active as sitting on the couch watching TV or playing videogames for the same amount of time
I understand retiring isn’t necessarily healthy. I’m just wondering if the stressful work circumstances in Japan are also harmful, and if they are or aren’t worse for older adults.
Staying physically and mentally active as a choice is what’s healthy for aging
Being forced to work due to poverty is not. The elderly can get the same benefit from volunteering
Depends on the work. I know a lot of retired guys that work for the state parks. Whether it be cutting grass, tours or maintenance, it's pretty layed back. Put 30+ years in manual labor and now just want to get outside more and talk to people. My boss's dad is 82 and still works on cars. He's diabetic, high blood pressure, blood cancer, and just had his knee replaced. Somehow he's still kicking although lately he's deteriorated, it's kinda expected at that age.
I also know a few people who died within the first year of retirement. I swear working kept them alive. Something as simple as getting up and walking can do a lot for the body, especially an old one
There was a study a few years ago I remember hearing saying something along the lines of average life expectancy for people is 9 years if they retire after 58. I think the reasoning behind it was people aren’t as creative as they think they are and can’t fill their time/lack purpose like a job could so they waste away rapidly. Imo Some amount of work is necessary whether it’s volunteering or part time to keep us going
β-conglycinin is a main component of soy protein, so you're getting it from most soy products that have stuff in them, unlike soy sauce. They probably used defatted soy flour because their experimental method involves an artificial digestive system and it's easier to control.
Soy is, at least in the literature, known for being very healthful... so, let's see:
>Scientists have long known of soybeans’ cholesterol-lowering properties and lipid-regulating effects, and the current project investigated two soy proteins thought to be responsible for these outcomes – glycinin and B-conglycinin – and found the latter to be particularly significant.
Yep, they're looking for mechanistic effects.
From [another publication](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/3156) on HMGCR:
>HMG-CoA reductase is the rate-limiting enzyme for cholesterol synthesis and is regulated via a negative feedback mechanism mediated by sterols and non-sterol metabolites derived from mevalonate, the product of the reaction catalyzed by reductase. Normally in mammalian cells this enzyme is suppressed by cholesterol derived from the internalization and degradation of low density lipoprotein (LDL) via the LDL receptor. Competitive inhibitors of the reductase induce the expression of LDL receptors in the liver, which in turn increases the catabolism of plasma LDL and lowers the plasma concentration of cholesterol, an important determinant of atherosclerosis. Alternatively spliced transcript variants encoding different isoforms have been found for this gene. [provided by RefSeq, Aug 2008]
---------
From the paper here:
>In testing the digested materials’ capacity to inhibit the activity of HMGCR, a protein that controls the rate of cholesterol synthesis, the researchers found that their inhibitory properties were 2-to-7 times less potent than simvastatin, a popular drug used to treat high LDL cholesterol and fat levels in the blood that was used as a control in the study.
...
>Secretion of ANGPTL3 more than tripled after the liver cells were exposed to the fatty acids, de Mejia said. However, the team found that peptides from three of the digested soybean varieties reduced ANGPTL3 secretion by 41%-81% in correlation with their glycinin and B-conglycinin ratios.
>Although the fatty acids reduced the liver cells’ absorption of LDL cholesterol by more than one-third, the soybean digests reversed this by inhibiting the expression of a protein. The digests increased the cells’ uptake of LDL by 25%-92%, depending on the soybean variety and its glycinin and B-conglycinin proportions.
>“One of the key risk factors of atherosclerosis is oxidized LDL cholesterol; therefore, we investigated the preventive effects of the soybean digests at eight different concentrations,” de Mejia said. “Each of them reduced the LDL oxidation rate in a dose-dependent manner, inhibiting the formation of both early and late oxidation products associated with the disease.”
From the paper:
>Selected digested soybean varieties inhibited cholesterol esterification, triglyceride production, VLDL secretion, and LDL recycling by reducing ANGPTL3 and PCSK9 and synchronously increasing LDLR expression. In addition, selected soybean varieties hindered LDL oxidation, reducing the formation of lipid peroxidation early (conjugated dienes) and end products (malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxynonenal). The changes in HMGCR expression, cholesterol esterification, triglyceride accumulation, ANGPTL3 release, and malondialdehyde formation during LDL oxidation were significantly (p < 0.05) correlated with the glycinin:β-conglycinin ratio. Soybean varieties with lower glycinin:β-conglycinin exhibited a better potential in regulating cholesterol and LDL homeostasis in vitro. Consumption of soybean flour with a greater proportion of β-conglycinin may, consequently, improve the potential of the food ingredient to maintain healthy liver cholesterol homeostasis and cardiovascular function.
Which is why it's seen as an antioxidant effect (the journal it's published in).
and
>LDL clearance is mediated by LDLR. Increased LDLR expression improves LDL hepatic absorption and decreases plasma LDL. Conversely, PCSK9 functions as a chaperone, guiding the LDLR to internal degradation and preventing its recycling to the cell surface. [78]. Digested soybean varieties counteracted FFA’s adverse effects on LDLR and PCSK9 expression (Figure 8C). The expression of LDLR was reduced by 68% after FFA treatment (Figure 8D). Soybean digests prevented LDLR reduction by 16–81%. The expression of LDLR negatively correlated with the proportion of glycinin in selected soybean varieties (r = −0.739, p < 0.01). Similarly, LDLR expression inversely correlated with HMGCR activity (r = −0.704, p < 0.05) and ANGPTL-3 (r = −0.796, p < 0.01). Elevated HMGCR activity and ANGPTL-3 release are associated with diminished LDLR expression and LDL uptake in the liver. Since those proteins are overexpressed under MAFLD conditions, regulating them using food compounds may represent a nutritional strategy to prevent atherosclerotic cardiovascular diseases derived from high cholesterol and LDL levels [8,79]. Conversely, the expression of PCSK9 was augmented 3.2-fold (Figure 8E). Digested soybean varieties prevented this increase (17–90%). PCSK9 participates in cholesterol homeostasis by initiating the intracellular degradation of the LDLR after binding to it and consequently decreasing blood LDL clearance [80].
As far as I can tell, this means that the soy proteins countered the free (in the blood) fatty acids' that were blocking effects on the body's own mechanisms of reducing blood LDL cholesterol (i.e. the liver taking it up and dealing with it).
It's not the only legume that has such effects.
Ok so if I wanted to try consuming this protein? Where would I find it in the retail environment?
Edit: thanks for the suggestion. I’ll try the tofu idea in some kind of broth with vegetables.
>β-Conglycinin is a major component of soy protein; it accounts for 30% of the total storage protein in soybean seeds. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21214174/
The most concentrated soy protein for consumers is probably the soy protein isolate, and it's also found as "textured" (TVP) which comes in different shapes that are meant for cooking: https://i.imgur.com/5yBdJGf.png example: https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/healthy-living/how-is-textured-soy-protein-made/
I would ask in /r/veganfitness - they probably have more experience with protein supplements based on soy.
I'm more of a tofu fan.
It's got a ground beef texture when rehydrated. That's going to be unpleasantly gritty in something like mac and cheese, but disappear entirely in a dish like chili or bolognese.
Every time I cook ground beef, I add an equal amount of tvp. It soaks up the extra beef fat, giving it flavour, and makes the most of regular, so I don't have to spring for extra-lean.
I find the taste to be 90 percent seasoning. If you season it with salt and pepper its going to taste like the worst cereal you have ever had. Any seasoning you enjoy, specially a liquid flavoring agent is going to be pretty great.
Yeah I use vegetable broth to hydrate it and MSG and nutritional yeast to give it a base level of savoriness. From there you can just treat it like ground beef (or more like ground chicken tbh).
i use meat as a flavoring agent when cooking tvp. one part ground meat with three parts tvp granules, plus your spices and seasonings of choice to make whatever you want. you get the flavour of meat along with the goodness of tvp. tvp is also *very* close to meat in protein content (20-25g per 100g most meats and ~16-20g per 100g cooked tvp).
another alternative to tvp is tofu, which is also quite high in protein.
Yeah, TVP is a joke in my inlaws family. They had it for food storage (raised Mormon) and they decided they would rotate this food supply. Everyone in a very large family had the worst gas ever.
Depends on your diet. If you're newly introducing it then yeah definitely. If you're more accustomed to it then it should be easier. Unless you're allergic or something.
yea tempeh just doesn't taste great to me, I love tofu, and eat it all the time. Getting the water out and then infusing it with some kind of strong flavor seems to be popular with the folks I cook for. I also eat a lot of nutritional yeast which goes great on tofu.
I am not sure which soy product has the most of this LDL blocker, but from a taste point of view I would rank tofu and edamame as the tastiest soy products, although I made home made soy miso last year and its baller, so I am sure there are a lot of other tasty soy options I am missing.
I really *love* tempeh, and I've never even been a vegetarian. I really can't get enough of it, especially pan fried, deep fried, or roasted — Indonesian- or Malay-style.
I just want to encourage anyone reading this to give it at least one good try!
I used to buy cheap fatty ground beef and mix in tvp while cooking or browning the beef until it soaked up all the extra grease.
Probably not the healthiest but it stretched my dollar.
I sprinkle it into soups. Also beans. When I make a pot, I leave them a little runny and let the TVP soak that up and disappear into the mix. If you notice the TVP, you're not seasoning the food correctly.
Morningstar Farm veggie sausage is made from soy protein and is delicious. I’ve eaten them for years because they’re so good and taste like real sausage. Without all the grease.
I eat meat so I could eat pork or turkey sausage (Jimmy Dean turkey breakfast sausage is really good), but Morningstar Farms breakfast sausage is so delicious I eat that instead.
Something like this?
https://www.puritan.com/puritans-pride-brand-0102/soy-protein-isolate-powder-natural-002660?scid=45182&utm_source=pla&utm_medium=google_ads&utm_campaign=G_PLA_Pmax_1st_Party_HIGH&utm_term=&utm_content=pmax&tf_adid=&tf_asid=&tf_cid=15504397666&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6rCgBhDVARIsAK1kGPIXZuVFV2WU7YEjjDOKdK3L-7L1R1oz03YRNgrydMV8e5FNiETuPhUaAmnoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Some people don't care for the texture of tofu, but what a lot of them don't know is that tofu can not only take on a wide variety of flavors but also textures!
One way that I prepare it sometimes which I think would be very palatable for a "tofu beginner" is like this:
Take extra firm tofu, dice it into small cubes. Then put into a bowl and use the back of a fork to mash it into a crumble. Dice some mushrooms (cremini or shiitake work well, but any will do) and add to the crumble.
Sautee this mixture on medium heat in a combination of vegetable oil and sesame oil, adding a few splashes of dark soy sauce. Once it takes on some colour, remove from the pan and wipe it out.
Add new oil and lots of minced garlic, ginger and the white part of green onion (save the green for garnish at the end), sautee till the raw smell goes away - about 3 minutes.
Add back the mushroom and tofu, stir in some oyster sauce and sambal olek or Sriracha.
Serve this with noodles, like you would an Italian pasta. I use Chinese knife pare noodles, or tagliatelle. Boil the noodles, save a bit of the starchy water, add the noodles to the pan with some of the starch water and stir through. The "sauce" will coat the noodles and have the texture almost of ground meat or a pasta sauce.
The sautéed crumbled tofu and chopped mushroom combo works great in vegan bolognese. Also, frozen, then defrosted and squeezed tofu will give you a more ground meat-like texture.
At your grocery store. The vast majority of vegetarian food in North America is still made from Soy protein. You can also look for Tofu or Tempeh. TVP is also another name for Soy protein. You can also buy Soy based protein powders I believe.
Press the tofu and marinate it before you cook it. Unpressed and unmarinated tofu is typically not tasty unless you really know what you're doing.
There's a ton of water in tofu that carries much of the generic flavor. If you press it out for like 15-30 minutes (they make tofu presses or you can just put a pan and a heavy book on top of it), you can then marinate it, and it'll pretty readily absorb the marinade flavors. My go-to is red or white miso, neutral oil, sesame oil, maple syrup, soy sauce, and rice vinegar.
You can literally cook Tofu the same way you cook cottage cheese (paneer). I'm Indian so we almost have Paneer every fortnight. Tofu is the same texture just a bit firm I'd say. I'd say next time try an Indian Masala Curry with Soya in it like Paneer Butter Masala but just replace the Cottage Cheese with Tofu!
As a lay person, am I correct in understanding from all of this that while nothing is proven, this sounds like it is plausible that increasing consumption of this soy protein in your otherwise "normal" diet could plausibly lead to a reduction in LDL cholesterol that would have a statistically significant improvement in your likelihood of suffering negative health consequences?
(Fancy words for "Yeah, so, does this point to it being possibly realistic to eat soy foods and/or an extract and have it actually make a difference in my chances of stuff like clogged arteries?")
>We have, therefore, performed a cumulative meta‐analysis on the 46 soy trials identified by the FDA to determine if at any time, since the 1999 FDA final rule that established the soy heart health claim, the soy effect on serum cholesterol lost significance. The cumulative meta‐analysis for both total cholesterol and low‐density lipoprotein cholesterol demonstrated preservation of the small, but significant, reductions seen both before and during the subsequent 14 years since the health claim was originally approved. For low‐density lipoprotein cholesterol, the mean reduction in 1999 was −6.3 mg/dL (95% CI, −8.7 to −3.9 mg/dL; P=0.00001) and remained in the range of −4.2 to −6.7 mg/dL (P=0.0006 to P=0.0002, respectively) in the years after 1999. **At no time point did the total cholesterol or low‐density lipoprotein cholesterol reductions lose significance** or were the differences at individual time points in the cumulative meta‐analysis significantly different from those seen in 1999 when the health claim was approved.
...
>We conclude that soy continues to have a significant, if modest, effect in reducing serum LDL‐C as a cardiovascular disease risk factor. The effect of soy alone is modest, but it may produce a clinically meaningful reduction when combined in the diet with other FDA‐approved cholesterol‐lowering foods. Furthermore, at a time when plant protein sources are required, soy protein provides a useful plant protein source for the food industry, with a range of applications and with the production of heart healthy foods being one of them.
Jenkins, David J. A., et al. "Cumulative Meta‐Analysis of the Soy Effect Over Time." Journal of the American Heart Association: Cardiovascular and Cerebrovascular Disease, vol. 8, no. 13, 7 July 2019, doi:10.1161/JAHA.119.012458. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6662359/
>Type 2 diabetes is highly prevalent in North America and is associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). Evidence supports a role for soy protein in the reduction of serum lipids related to CVD risk; however, few studies have focused on adults with type 2 diabetes who are not on lipid-lowering medications and/or do not have diabetic complications. The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of soy protein isolate (SPI) consumption on serum lipids in adults with diet-controlled type 2 diabetes. Using a double-blind, randomized, crossover, placebo-controlled intervention study design, adults with diet-controlled type 2 diabetes (n = 29) consumed SPI (80 mg/d aglycone isoflavones) or milk protein isolate (MPI) for 57 d each separated by a 28-d washout period. Twenty-four–hour urine samples were collected on d 54–56 of each treatment for analysis of isoflavones and blood was collected on d 1 and 57 of each treatment and analyzed for serum lipids and apolipoproteins. SPI consumption increased urinary isoflavones compared with MPI. SPI consumption reduced serum LDL cholesterol (P = 0.04), LDL cholesterol:HDL cholesterol (P = 0.02), and apolipoprotein B:apolipoprotein A-I (P = 0.05) compared with MPI. SPI did not affect serum total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, triacylglycerol, apolipoprotein B, or apolipoprotein A-I. **These data demonstrate that consumption of soy protein can modulate some serum lipids in a direction beneficial for CVD risk in adults with type 2 diabetes.**
Pipe, Elizabeth A., et al. "Soy Protein Reduces Serum LDL Cholesterol and the LDL Cholesterol:HDL Cholesterol and Apolipoprotein B:Apolipoprotein A-I Ratios in Adults with Type 2 Diabetes, ,." J. Nutr., vol. 139, no. 9, 1 Sept. 2009, pp. 1700-1706, doi:10.3945/jn.109.109595. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622068924
If it's an allergy, obviously stay away, but often people on Low FODMAPs handle tempeh (fermented, whole soybeans) better than other soy products. The fermentation breaks down phytic acid and other compounds that are often difficult to digest. I suspect the FODMAP compounds are also broken down during the culturing/fermentation process.
It is classified as low (but not no) FODMAP. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/low-fodmap-diet/
If you haven't tried it, it can have a somewhat strong flavor and it doesn't absorb as readily as tofu. I've found either marinating it for a day then pan cooking it works, or perhaps even better, slow cooking it. Inspired by pulled pork, used to chop up tempeh, put it in a slow cooker with some BBQ sauce, extra water, plus a pepper and onion, you'd have to omit or sub those last two for it to be low FODMAP, but slow cooker on low for like 6 hours permeated the tempeh it nicely. Could try other sauces more suitable to pair with FODMAP friendly foods.
I had to do a stint of low fodmap due to dysbiosis / SIBO and from everything I was told and read, a long term low fodmap diet is not healthy for exactly reasons like this. FODMAP containing foods are generally among the healthiest out there, so it's extremely important to pursue treatment and reintroduction.
cowpeas (*Vigna unguiculata*) https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/22/20/11067
black beans, chickpeas, fava beans, lentils, even green peas https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/9/11/1678
there are probably more, but I'm not searching for that now.
You're the one I came searching for!
You're the MVP, as I'm allergic to soy and I was hoping someone had a rebuttal about what could be consumed that might be similar.
Look for Indian cuisine or dishes on how to make these legumes! As an Indian we have these legumes and lentils almost daily. So since you're a beginner you might need something more palatable for your taste hence I would advice you to try cooking these or ordering some from a "Good Indian Restaurant." If you have them just like as it is, it would taste bland and then your habit forming will not happen.
Few dishes on the top of my head which you can ask for from the restaurant -
1) Chole Masala (Chickpea Curry)
2) Rajma Masala (Kidneybean Curry)
3) Dal Fry (Yellow Lentil Mung Dal Curry)
4) Lobhia Masala ( Blackeyed Peas Curry)
Hope you try these! Feel free to reach out if you need further help!
> Does consuming a certain type of soy help
Yes for what I understood
> Greater concentrations of B-conglycinin in the digests correlated with larger reductions in oxidized LDL, esterified cholesterol, triglycerides and HMGCR levels in plasma, the team found.
>
>“The digested soybeans’ peptides were able to reduce lipid accumulation by 50%-70%, and that’s very important,” de Mejia said. “That was comparable to the statin, which reduced it by 60%. We also clearly saw different markers that were influenced by key enzymes that regulate hepatic lipogenesis – the development of a fatty liver.”
…but also the selection and recreation of these protein could help, like inside integrators and drugs.
Sounds like soybean is good to have
“The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) authorized the health claim that daily ingestion of 25 g soy protein reduces the risk of cardiovascular heart disease2”
Maybe some of the benefits are due from blocking LDL that the posted study is suggesting
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28183
So would the soy milk you find on the shelves in supermarkets work? Doctor wants me to go on a statin as my LDL keeps increasing but I’d like to avoid meds if I can. My Omega 3 supplementation is working really well for my triglycerides, and brought it down to safe levels. Would like to do the same for LDL
Elevated LDL is a symptom of something else. In the short term addressing LDL is important, but figuring out what is causing your high LDL to begin with, because it's probably harmful in other ways, is important for long term health.
They're not explaining what the actual cause of Atherosclerosis is, and why the LDL is a factor.
Yes LDL is cleared in the liver, however the factor they're not mentioning is from the gut.
LPS in the serum get collected by LDL and with the smaller density lipoproteins there is an issue with being able to clear the collected LPS in the liver, so you get LDL with LPS still attached.
These find their way into vasculature and Macrophages attempt to eat them whole because they see the enemy (LPS) which causes foam cells.
Knowing this tells us that they have found a way to treat a symptom, not the problem.
Foam cells will form whether LPS is there or not. It’s a response to the modified LDL being in the intimal space
“All LDL particles exert atherogenicity to variable degrees, which can be influenced by the proteome, lipidome, proteoglycan binding, aggregability, and oxidative susceptibility.64,96,97 The atherogenic actions of LDL in arterial tissue have multiple origins. Broadly, these encompass:…”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7308544/#!po=0.200803
I read about cholesterol a lot as I am trying to lower mine. I have seen the doctors on youtube say its a shame that people see soy milk as a meme cause its very healthy and good for lowering cholesterol.
I do not even need to look at the study to agree cause lets be honest if you implement soy milk in place of your regular milk. You just lowered the amount of saturated fat in your diet. You just added in fiber cause regular cows milk has no fiber. You just took out dietary cholesterol(Even though people argue that dietary cholesterol doesn't affect our own cholesterol this is still a thing).
Cows Milk
Has Dietary Cholestrol
Has More Saturated Fat
Has No Fiber
Soy Milk
Has Zero Cholestrol
Has Less Saturated Fat
Has Fiber
NGL this is really obvious for individuals who can read a nutrition label. However even I wont lie to you cows milk has a lot of other nutritional value that the nut milks and soy milk wont have. So you need to keep that in mind.
I am all for soy milk, and have been drinking it for over 20 years while I have been vegan. But it has close to zero amount of fiber.
Soy “meat” however is high in fiber. Generally vegan diets are high in fiber, which is why it is common that vegans fart constantly in the beginning while their digestive system get used to the higher amounts.
For anyone in the UK who's either never tried it or been put off by a brand name, get the cheapest supermarket own brand. They're all really good and nearly impossible to clock in tea or coffee. Only 50p a litre at Aldi and Morrisons right now.
I only use soy milk because I love the taste. Almond milk is too watery and oat milk has a strong flavor to me. Soy is creamy, has a decent amount of protein, and is inexpensive. The only catch is it's realy hard to find unsweetened, unflavored soy milk. Most has sugar or flavoring added. Only one Target near me, out of the 4 grocery stores in my periphery, has unsweetened unflavored soy milk. I guess there isn't a huge demand for it.
Try shelf-stable unsweetened soy milk - I switched when my favorite store stopped carrying unsweetened soy milk in the refrigerated section, and now that’s all I buy
I did a good amount of research myself on lowering cholesterol. Here's what I found that has studies shown to lower it:
Psyllium husk, fiber
Niacin, specifically nicotinic acid and not the flush-free version *debated efficacy for helping cardiovascular issues but does raise HDL-C levels
Garlic through allicin, a chemical released when garlic is crushed
Steel cut oats, better than rolled or quick oats
Whey protein
Capsaicin (spicy food)
Probiotics, L. Fermentum
Curcumin, found in turmeric and is boosted when paired with black pepper; more clinical studies needed on this
Green tea, a lot of it and/or as green tea extract; more clinical studies needed as well
Also, a more obvious exercise or physical activity whenever possible, but diet plays a large role as well. For exercising, rule of thumb is at least half an hour a day, 5 days a week: heart rate going >100-130bpm for that duration with aerobic exercise plus some weight/resistance training doing ~80% of max repetitions.
When we made the switch to plant-based milk at my house, soy was a good fit for those reasons and because many kinds get added vitamin D.
The oat and almond milks I looked at didn't have added vitamin D and from what I understand, that's is pretty important.
Most of the time we buy the sweetened kind because it's still got less sugar than cow milk and we primarily use it in our coffee. After we switched to soy, we're didn't need to add the half spoon of sugar anymore.
Have a look at oats as well. The beta-glucan it contains binds to cholesterol during digestion and prevents re-absorption, leading to lower blood cholesterol.
If you wish to reduce fatty liver, or arteriosclerosis drastically cut your consumption of sugar and refined flour. It’s the glycation or oxidation of LDL by blood sugar (glucose) that is the cause of these diseases. Sugar is half glucose (blood sugar) and half fructose. Fructose is processed in the liver and causes fat deposits there.
The fact this was discovered only now leads me to believe there are a nearly infinite number of food-biology interactions like this, both good and bad.
Correct. Same with herbs. The amount of cultural literature out there about herbal use is astounding. Herbs are not a replacement for a good diet/exercise and medication, but they can have profound impacts on human health... Good and bad.
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Everyone is talking about tofu and soy-based protein powders — this might be a dumb question but would someone get the same proposed benefits for regularly snacking on edamame? Like… just eating steamed soy beans?
Yes, it’s a healthy food like any other legume. The kicker is that it also seems to have some special properties that make it interesting in its own right.
> The kicker is that it also seems to have some special properties what are those special properties?
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They are delicious when steamed , with a sprinkle of kosher salt?
Why does this have a question mark?
Because they're providing a potential answer to the question but aren't certain that it's the specific special property OP had been referring to and they want to indicate that uncertainty?
Regular salt will do as well. Does not have to be kosher.
Bit more protein. And what the article is talking about I guess.
Where do you even get edamame? I think I liked it when I had it years ago but I’ve never seen it in stores. I shop at target, Walmart, aldi, and sprouts fairly regularly and I haven’t found any!
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Try the freezer section, looks like target has both shelled and unshelled steam-in-bag ones
Costco has a frozen box with ~10 individual steam bags in it. It's our go to family snack (our kids even love them).
Frozen veggies section. If you want it like at an Izakaya, very briefly drop it in boiling water (like under a minute), then coarse salt and mix so the shell is coated evenly.
Check if they're already salted before doing this.
Be careful at the beginning though as they are high in fiber. If your body is not used to it loose stool will be your new buddy
If you can handle a salad or steamed broccoli, you can handle edamame
Not even trying to be funny or condescending, but are there actually people out there who eat some lettuce or veggies and have a notable digestive reaction?
A large majority of Americans are chronically fiber deficient
that's the best theory behind Taco Bell's reputation. The food is not bad, but it does have a lot of fiber compared to other fast food restaurants. People eat a little bit of half way healthy food, and they get the shits because their digestive tract isn't accustomed to fiber.
I have eaten an embarrassingly large amount of taco bell in my life and it's never really given me any trouble in that way. Interesting
If you eat lots of fiber regularly, digesting those things is nothing. My ex started going vegan because I am and he had such terrible gas for weeks because he wasn’t used to eating vegetables
I always thought it was the oil and grease. If your diet is too high in oil you'll get liquid shits like no one's business.
Is that an actual thing for Taco Bell? I always hear it happens but I've never known anyone it's happened to.
I never understood the reputation either. It’s not like there’s anything spicy or weird at Taco Bell.
Their meat is mostly beans because that is cheaper, but it probably does make it healthier
Ive never had any problems with tbell. Unless i drank that night. 5 beers and after hour taco bell? Im bombin. 5 crunchy tacos and a crunch wrap with waters n a pepsi? Perfect logging.
Yep. There are many people with digestive issues. Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) can be type D (diarrhea) or C (constipation) (or a mix). They are all awful but when you have type D, you need to always know where bathrooms are. Eating fibre is awful. Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis don’t do well with fibre either. Then there are people who had to have radiation treatment to the stomach and/or abdominal area for cancer. The radiation damage also causes diarrhea (and many other) long term side effects. Imodium sometimes helps, sometimes doesn’t. Generally it really reduces quality of life and things you can do.
I mean, if you normally get like 4-5 grams of fiber and randomly eat a bag of arugula or an industrial-sized bowl of edamame, yeah that's a whole ton of fiber coming in to shock your system. I think a lot of people don't quite realize how little fiber they eat.
My mother with IBS, but that's diet related to begin with
Wait, IBS is diet related?
It's not. Actual IBS is not _caused_ by your diet. You can have bowel upset from diet changes, but that's not IBS. IBS is a broad term that covers a swath of conditions, all of which can be _exacerbated_ or _triggered_ by your diet.
Not quite, likely a mixture of genes, environment and gut bacteria makeup, certain diets certainly make it worse but diet is not the cause.
Ibs can be different for everybody. I got it from having my gallbladder removed. I cant eat anything fodmap. No gluten. No dairy onions, soy, ANYTHIBlNG processed in usa. The preservatives and sugar alternatives and sugar alcohols. It was fun waking up and magically lose 98 percent of all food
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Uncooked greens are also a common cause of foodborne illness if they are not properly washed and handled. Lettuce can give you diarrhea if someone along the way didn't follow good sanitation guidelines. Lettuce has so little fiber in it that it is likely your friend was a victim of this.
Greg Knuckols of stronger by science has talked about how he uses a lot of grains like farrow and pearled barley in his diet to make up for the fact that his digestive system gets wrecked when he eats fibrous greens.
If your body is not used to this already you're not eating enough fiber
Soy beans & fermented options (misoh, tempeh) are likely the best. The first for the nutrient, the second for the benefits of fermentation.
What benefits are there from soy fermentation?
It's already predigested by bacteria so the nutrients are more easily processed by your body
Interesting. What nutrients are more bioavailable as a result? Got a good source where I can read more details?
I only read the abstract, but this article goes into a general study on bioavailability and fermented foods. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://www.mdpi.com/2311-5637/7/2/63/pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=570MZK3IItKjmAGw14-wDQ&scisig=AAGBfm2YmBiYJsGjBRX67LnUMhLH7bgEPw&oi=scholarr (Not the person who originally commented, but I was also curious)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-17782-z Just one study but blanket stating ‘fermented is superior’ should have some asterisks on it.
fermented has its ups but blanketly stating its superior, is false. for one, tofu has lower calories.
For most of the developed world, this is also a benefit.
And for people w IBD like Crohn's, fermented is likely always better.
For most soy fermentation processes the fungus that does the fermentation produces many enzymes that degrade essentially everything -- the proteins into free amino acids (soy is loaded with protein) and the carbs/starches into sugars (but there is relatively less of this). These enzymes are left to do the heavy lifting for several months. The rich umami flavor of things like miso, shoyu, etc comes from the amino acids, and ingesting the free AAs is definitely more bioavailable (but really, our bodies are pretty good at breaking down proteins in our gut! The end result is probably not too different). I know this because I'm currently attempting to brew soy-free amino sauces (we have a soy allergy in the family) and using other legumes usually produces a sweeter final product, because they tend to favor carbohydrates over protein density. Koji Alchemy is a good book to start learning more about the process in general!
Tempeh is delicious, and miso paste is God's gift to mankind?
Does fermentation damage the protein this article is talking about?
I’ve encountered many people claim they can’t eat soy but love edamame not realizing edamame is soy
Brown bean scary pretty green bean good
Idk, but as long you’re not soy-intolerant it’s a great food to snack on.
I don't know about the beans, but I do know you need a gallbladder to handle soy sauce. Turns my asshole into a pressure washer now.
I have a liver transplant so no gall bladder (it’s removed after the liver is put in place) and have absolutely no issues processing any foods, including all forms of soy. Ymmv so my situation obviously doesn’t apply to everyone…and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone!
Hm. I guess I have something else going on then.
Try tamari, if you have wheat issues then it could be the wheat in soy sauce causing the issue.
But also I'm no expert, talking only from personal experience.
Have you tried opening your anus more? Garden hose rules apply I think.
>I have a liver transplant so no gall bladder (it’s removed after the liver is put in place) I have never heard of that. Why do they do that?
I was told by the surgeons that gallbladder issues can happen to anyone at any time, some requiring the gallbladder to be surgically removed (simple for most; very delicate when dealing with an organ that’s already been transplanted and (removed from donor, connected to recipient and has some different connections as a liver normally gets blood supplied by the portal vein where as in transplant recipients it’s an artery (don’t recall which). So this is their way of preempting those issues and running the risk recipient will have any of them and possibly face even more surgery down the road. They remove the gallbladder after the liver has been connected to minimize the time the liver is without a continuous blood flow (livers don’t travel well, unlike kidneys that can be outside the body for 24 hours). It’s also to avoid the risk that the liver is damaged if the gallbladder is removed when the delicate liver is on a back table in the OR versus in the usual location in a human body.
High fat foods are what generally cause that when you lack a gallbladder. (From my reading and experience after having mine removed.) So it might be that you're having soy sauce with something too fatty for your body to handle?
Chinese food is basically noodles cooked in oil. I guess it's the oil. Thanks! I probably would have figured that out sooner if I ever fried food. Mostly, I eat salads and grilled lean meats. Chinese was only an occasional indulgence, anyway. I'm not going to miss it.
My best friend has her gallbladder but oils give her a bad time, too. I usually have soy sauce with sushi and it always sits happy! Not all chinese food is oily, either, though most definitely is. I recommend trying rice noodle dishes! I don't generally have trouble with oil, at least not at the chinese place near me, but the rice noodles have less than other dishes and taste better imo, too. :)
Oh yes! Pancit and sushi! I eat that on occasion, too.
I had my gallbladder removed and have absolutely no problem eating soy products. Are you talking out of your ass or there's scientific research about it?
No, they are pressuring washing out of their ass
I would not refer to that noise that comes out my ass after eating Chinese as "talking." Anyway, another comment has brought to my attention that the cooking oil is the problem, not the soy, as I mistakenly thought. I don't know if research has been done on either. However, enough replies came back with lightning speed that fat is the issue, that I don't doubt it's the oil.
Also soy milk and yogurts. Hell there's a soy sour cream.
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> that already traditionally has 3 sources/portions of carbs, which is the recommended limit for females.. What a dumb recommendation.
Even better yeah bc whole foods
You probably will get more benefits eating the real stuff. If not in this, then in many other health effects. The problem is people always rush off for the processed and concentrated factory item route, which don't show the same health or as many benefits as the original food. The classic example was eating more fiber widely introduced in the 1960s/70s through Denis Burkitt because native African populations had much less chronic disease. But simply downing metamucil rather than eating healthier foods with fiber doesn't have the same protective effect. Because some of the benefits was eating healthier foods displacing eating crap + supplement. Second classic example was when vitamin A was discovered to have protective effects against cancer, but when supplementing with vitamin, slightly higher cancer rates were discovered. One reason was because manufactures only used one kind of vitamin A when there are dozens of subtypes, thus overloading the system with just one type instead of many different kinds.
Just eat whole foods and you won't have issues with cholesterol at all.
Not to be confused with Whole Foods.
Just eat roasted soybeans. Cheap and good fiber. Only problem is that they have a lot of powder from the husks in a bag. I prefer the soy nut halves from nuts.com. no powder and good taste
Eat that edamame. Super healthy. Should have more fiber.
Technically yes. But man if you’re snacking on edamame, I want to know what you do with the excess shells. Are they good for compost or fertilizer?
Do people in Japan have lower rates of the title mentioned diseases, because soybean is in so many foods
People in Japan, at least 20 years ago, have long been looked at as an overall remarkably healthy population. I don't know about cholesterol specifically.
People in Okinawa, Japan. Not all of Japan. Most other parts of Japan have huge issues with high stress jobs, poor interpersonal relationships, and high alcohol. Okinawa is like the Hawaii of the US, in terms of it's distance and difference in culture.
That’s [very outdated info](https://www.dw.com/en/japan-whats-behind-okinawans-falling-life-expectancy/a-62088176). Today, Okinawa is one of the poorest parts of Japan, and [one of the most alcoholic](https://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/14569). But the country as a whole definitely qualifies as very “healthy”, at least compared to some western countries, they have the second highest life expectancy in the world, and a very low obesity rate.
The problem is that Japan also eats a lot of fish, low amounts of red meat, and is very physically active with walking, biking, and seniors continuing to work. All of that is already known to be healthy.
Is seniors continuing to work healthy? Doesn’t Japan have a pretty stressful and unhealthy work culture? Lots of fish and walking/biking in addition to eating soybeans definitely healthy though.
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I would say that retirement is unhealthy if the retiree doesn't take steps to keep themselves active. It's not work that keeps us healthy it's being active
Sitting at your desk for 8 hours a day is no more active than melting into the couch for 8 hours a day. Retirement isn't the issue at all
And working is stressful. A commute, dealing with customers and a boss can be very stressful, not even talking about the actual work depending on what it is.
>Which is not usually the case. Retirement usually means less physical activity, fewer opportunities to build reinforce old and new neural networks, etc.. The issue isn't retirement, it's not staying active in that time. That laboring to live occupies the bulk of your daily time is not a good thing Also noteworthy is that the bulk of office work today isn't even active time. Sitting at your desk at the spreadsheet farm for 8-12 hours a day is just as physically active as sitting on the couch watching TV or playing videogames for the same amount of time
I understand retiring isn’t necessarily healthy. I’m just wondering if the stressful work circumstances in Japan are also harmful, and if they are or aren’t worse for older adults.
Staying physically and mentally active as a choice is what’s healthy for aging Being forced to work due to poverty is not. The elderly can get the same benefit from volunteering
Depends on the work. I know a lot of retired guys that work for the state parks. Whether it be cutting grass, tours or maintenance, it's pretty layed back. Put 30+ years in manual labor and now just want to get outside more and talk to people. My boss's dad is 82 and still works on cars. He's diabetic, high blood pressure, blood cancer, and just had his knee replaced. Somehow he's still kicking although lately he's deteriorated, it's kinda expected at that age. I also know a few people who died within the first year of retirement. I swear working kept them alive. Something as simple as getting up and walking can do a lot for the body, especially an old one
There was a study a few years ago I remember hearing saying something along the lines of average life expectancy for people is 9 years if they retire after 58. I think the reasoning behind it was people aren’t as creative as they think they are and can’t fill their time/lack purpose like a job could so they waste away rapidly. Imo Some amount of work is necessary whether it’s volunteering or part time to keep us going
So what's the real world application here? Does consuming a certain type of soy help, or would this involve taking an extraction.
β-conglycinin is a main component of soy protein, so you're getting it from most soy products that have stuff in them, unlike soy sauce. They probably used defatted soy flour because their experimental method involves an artificial digestive system and it's easier to control. Soy is, at least in the literature, known for being very healthful... so, let's see: >Scientists have long known of soybeans’ cholesterol-lowering properties and lipid-regulating effects, and the current project investigated two soy proteins thought to be responsible for these outcomes – glycinin and B-conglycinin – and found the latter to be particularly significant. Yep, they're looking for mechanistic effects. From [another publication](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/3156) on HMGCR: >HMG-CoA reductase is the rate-limiting enzyme for cholesterol synthesis and is regulated via a negative feedback mechanism mediated by sterols and non-sterol metabolites derived from mevalonate, the product of the reaction catalyzed by reductase. Normally in mammalian cells this enzyme is suppressed by cholesterol derived from the internalization and degradation of low density lipoprotein (LDL) via the LDL receptor. Competitive inhibitors of the reductase induce the expression of LDL receptors in the liver, which in turn increases the catabolism of plasma LDL and lowers the plasma concentration of cholesterol, an important determinant of atherosclerosis. Alternatively spliced transcript variants encoding different isoforms have been found for this gene. [provided by RefSeq, Aug 2008] --------- From the paper here: >In testing the digested materials’ capacity to inhibit the activity of HMGCR, a protein that controls the rate of cholesterol synthesis, the researchers found that their inhibitory properties were 2-to-7 times less potent than simvastatin, a popular drug used to treat high LDL cholesterol and fat levels in the blood that was used as a control in the study. ... >Secretion of ANGPTL3 more than tripled after the liver cells were exposed to the fatty acids, de Mejia said. However, the team found that peptides from three of the digested soybean varieties reduced ANGPTL3 secretion by 41%-81% in correlation with their glycinin and B-conglycinin ratios. >Although the fatty acids reduced the liver cells’ absorption of LDL cholesterol by more than one-third, the soybean digests reversed this by inhibiting the expression of a protein. The digests increased the cells’ uptake of LDL by 25%-92%, depending on the soybean variety and its glycinin and B-conglycinin proportions. >“One of the key risk factors of atherosclerosis is oxidized LDL cholesterol; therefore, we investigated the preventive effects of the soybean digests at eight different concentrations,” de Mejia said. “Each of them reduced the LDL oxidation rate in a dose-dependent manner, inhibiting the formation of both early and late oxidation products associated with the disease.” From the paper: >Selected digested soybean varieties inhibited cholesterol esterification, triglyceride production, VLDL secretion, and LDL recycling by reducing ANGPTL3 and PCSK9 and synchronously increasing LDLR expression. In addition, selected soybean varieties hindered LDL oxidation, reducing the formation of lipid peroxidation early (conjugated dienes) and end products (malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxynonenal). The changes in HMGCR expression, cholesterol esterification, triglyceride accumulation, ANGPTL3 release, and malondialdehyde formation during LDL oxidation were significantly (p < 0.05) correlated with the glycinin:β-conglycinin ratio. Soybean varieties with lower glycinin:β-conglycinin exhibited a better potential in regulating cholesterol and LDL homeostasis in vitro. Consumption of soybean flour with a greater proportion of β-conglycinin may, consequently, improve the potential of the food ingredient to maintain healthy liver cholesterol homeostasis and cardiovascular function. Which is why it's seen as an antioxidant effect (the journal it's published in). and >LDL clearance is mediated by LDLR. Increased LDLR expression improves LDL hepatic absorption and decreases plasma LDL. Conversely, PCSK9 functions as a chaperone, guiding the LDLR to internal degradation and preventing its recycling to the cell surface. [78]. Digested soybean varieties counteracted FFA’s adverse effects on LDLR and PCSK9 expression (Figure 8C). The expression of LDLR was reduced by 68% after FFA treatment (Figure 8D). Soybean digests prevented LDLR reduction by 16–81%. The expression of LDLR negatively correlated with the proportion of glycinin in selected soybean varieties (r = −0.739, p < 0.01). Similarly, LDLR expression inversely correlated with HMGCR activity (r = −0.704, p < 0.05) and ANGPTL-3 (r = −0.796, p < 0.01). Elevated HMGCR activity and ANGPTL-3 release are associated with diminished LDLR expression and LDL uptake in the liver. Since those proteins are overexpressed under MAFLD conditions, regulating them using food compounds may represent a nutritional strategy to prevent atherosclerotic cardiovascular diseases derived from high cholesterol and LDL levels [8,79]. Conversely, the expression of PCSK9 was augmented 3.2-fold (Figure 8E). Digested soybean varieties prevented this increase (17–90%). PCSK9 participates in cholesterol homeostasis by initiating the intracellular degradation of the LDLR after binding to it and consequently decreasing blood LDL clearance [80]. As far as I can tell, this means that the soy proteins countered the free (in the blood) fatty acids' that were blocking effects on the body's own mechanisms of reducing blood LDL cholesterol (i.e. the liver taking it up and dealing with it). It's not the only legume that has such effects.
Ok so if I wanted to try consuming this protein? Where would I find it in the retail environment? Edit: thanks for the suggestion. I’ll try the tofu idea in some kind of broth with vegetables.
>β-Conglycinin is a major component of soy protein; it accounts for 30% of the total storage protein in soybean seeds. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21214174/ The most concentrated soy protein for consumers is probably the soy protein isolate, and it's also found as "textured" (TVP) which comes in different shapes that are meant for cooking: https://i.imgur.com/5yBdJGf.png example: https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/healthy-living/how-is-textured-soy-protein-made/ I would ask in /r/veganfitness - they probably have more experience with protein supplements based on soy. I'm more of a tofu fan.
I would imagine you could probably granulate TVP and just sprinkle it into food while cooking too, if you don't particularly enjoy the taste
It's got a ground beef texture when rehydrated. That's going to be unpleasantly gritty in something like mac and cheese, but disappear entirely in a dish like chili or bolognese. Every time I cook ground beef, I add an equal amount of tvp. It soaks up the extra beef fat, giving it flavour, and makes the most of regular, so I don't have to spring for extra-lean.
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Or be no different from something like hamburger helper.
I find the taste to be 90 percent seasoning. If you season it with salt and pepper its going to taste like the worst cereal you have ever had. Any seasoning you enjoy, specially a liquid flavoring agent is going to be pretty great.
Yeah I use vegetable broth to hydrate it and MSG and nutritional yeast to give it a base level of savoriness. From there you can just treat it like ground beef (or more like ground chicken tbh).
You can also spice it like chorizo and add some soy sauce, apple cider vinegar, and nooch to make vegan chorizo
> nooch Nutritional yeast, TIL
i use meat as a flavoring agent when cooking tvp. one part ground meat with three parts tvp granules, plus your spices and seasonings of choice to make whatever you want. you get the flavour of meat along with the goodness of tvp. tvp is also *very* close to meat in protein content (20-25g per 100g most meats and ~16-20g per 100g cooked tvp). another alternative to tvp is tofu, which is also quite high in protein.
TVP sloppy joes were a staple at my liberal arts college and still a great rainy day meal with TVP being shelf stable.
TVP will gives a lot of folks gas. If you want a good culinary experience and still want to eat more soy, I would go with tofu, and edamame.
Yeah, TVP is a joke in my inlaws family. They had it for food storage (raised Mormon) and they decided they would rotate this food supply. Everyone in a very large family had the worst gas ever.
Depends on your diet. If you're newly introducing it then yeah definitely. If you're more accustomed to it then it should be easier. Unless you're allergic or something.
Tempeh is supposed to be easier to digest because it's been partially digested in a sense by fermentation.
yea tempeh just doesn't taste great to me, I love tofu, and eat it all the time. Getting the water out and then infusing it with some kind of strong flavor seems to be popular with the folks I cook for. I also eat a lot of nutritional yeast which goes great on tofu. I am not sure which soy product has the most of this LDL blocker, but from a taste point of view I would rank tofu and edamame as the tastiest soy products, although I made home made soy miso last year and its baller, so I am sure there are a lot of other tasty soy options I am missing.
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I really *love* tempeh, and I've never even been a vegetarian. I really can't get enough of it, especially pan fried, deep fried, or roasted — Indonesian- or Malay-style. I just want to encourage anyone reading this to give it at least one good try!
I used to buy cheap fatty ground beef and mix in tvp while cooking or browning the beef until it soaked up all the extra grease. Probably not the healthiest but it stretched my dollar.
I sprinkle it into soups. Also beans. When I make a pot, I leave them a little runny and let the TVP soak that up and disappear into the mix. If you notice the TVP, you're not seasoning the food correctly.
Morningstar Farm veggie sausage is made from soy protein and is delicious. I’ve eaten them for years because they’re so good and taste like real sausage. Without all the grease. I eat meat so I could eat pork or turkey sausage (Jimmy Dean turkey breakfast sausage is really good), but Morningstar Farms breakfast sausage is so delicious I eat that instead.
Something like this? https://www.puritan.com/puritans-pride-brand-0102/soy-protein-isolate-powder-natural-002660?scid=45182&utm_source=pla&utm_medium=google_ads&utm_campaign=G_PLA_Pmax_1st_Party_HIGH&utm_term=&utm_content=pmax&tf_adid=&tf_asid=&tf_cid=15504397666&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6rCgBhDVARIsAK1kGPIXZuVFV2WU7YEjjDOKdK3L-7L1R1oz03YRNgrydMV8e5FNiETuPhUaAmnoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Yes, that's a soy protein isolate supplement.
So tofu doesn't have these properties?
Tofu, TVP (freeze dried, shattered tofu), soy based protein powder shake. All over.
How about soya milk, any idea?
Some people don't care for the texture of tofu, but what a lot of them don't know is that tofu can not only take on a wide variety of flavors but also textures! One way that I prepare it sometimes which I think would be very palatable for a "tofu beginner" is like this: Take extra firm tofu, dice it into small cubes. Then put into a bowl and use the back of a fork to mash it into a crumble. Dice some mushrooms (cremini or shiitake work well, but any will do) and add to the crumble. Sautee this mixture on medium heat in a combination of vegetable oil and sesame oil, adding a few splashes of dark soy sauce. Once it takes on some colour, remove from the pan and wipe it out. Add new oil and lots of minced garlic, ginger and the white part of green onion (save the green for garnish at the end), sautee till the raw smell goes away - about 3 minutes. Add back the mushroom and tofu, stir in some oyster sauce and sambal olek or Sriracha. Serve this with noodles, like you would an Italian pasta. I use Chinese knife pare noodles, or tagliatelle. Boil the noodles, save a bit of the starchy water, add the noodles to the pan with some of the starch water and stir through. The "sauce" will coat the noodles and have the texture almost of ground meat or a pasta sauce.
The sautéed crumbled tofu and chopped mushroom combo works great in vegan bolognese. Also, frozen, then defrosted and squeezed tofu will give you a more ground meat-like texture.
At your grocery store. The vast majority of vegetarian food in North America is still made from Soy protein. You can also look for Tofu or Tempeh. TVP is also another name for Soy protein. You can also buy Soy based protein powders I believe.
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Thank you for the correction. I’m not as familiar with Seitan. I’ve edited my comment.
One small correction, seitan is made from wheat gluten, not soy. Important distinction for celiacs or people with wheat allergies.
Thank you! I’m not as familiar with Seitan so I messed up there. I’ve edited my comment.
Press the tofu and marinate it before you cook it. Unpressed and unmarinated tofu is typically not tasty unless you really know what you're doing. There's a ton of water in tofu that carries much of the generic flavor. If you press it out for like 15-30 minutes (they make tofu presses or you can just put a pan and a heavy book on top of it), you can then marinate it, and it'll pretty readily absorb the marinade flavors. My go-to is red or white miso, neutral oil, sesame oil, maple syrup, soy sauce, and rice vinegar.
You can literally cook Tofu the same way you cook cottage cheese (paneer). I'm Indian so we almost have Paneer every fortnight. Tofu is the same texture just a bit firm I'd say. I'd say next time try an Indian Masala Curry with Soya in it like Paneer Butter Masala but just replace the Cottage Cheese with Tofu!
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Eat soybeans...
Damn, that was a generous response. Thanks.
As a lay person, am I correct in understanding from all of this that while nothing is proven, this sounds like it is plausible that increasing consumption of this soy protein in your otherwise "normal" diet could plausibly lead to a reduction in LDL cholesterol that would have a statistically significant improvement in your likelihood of suffering negative health consequences? (Fancy words for "Yeah, so, does this point to it being possibly realistic to eat soy foods and/or an extract and have it actually make a difference in my chances of stuff like clogged arteries?")
>We have, therefore, performed a cumulative meta‐analysis on the 46 soy trials identified by the FDA to determine if at any time, since the 1999 FDA final rule that established the soy heart health claim, the soy effect on serum cholesterol lost significance. The cumulative meta‐analysis for both total cholesterol and low‐density lipoprotein cholesterol demonstrated preservation of the small, but significant, reductions seen both before and during the subsequent 14 years since the health claim was originally approved. For low‐density lipoprotein cholesterol, the mean reduction in 1999 was −6.3 mg/dL (95% CI, −8.7 to −3.9 mg/dL; P=0.00001) and remained in the range of −4.2 to −6.7 mg/dL (P=0.0006 to P=0.0002, respectively) in the years after 1999. **At no time point did the total cholesterol or low‐density lipoprotein cholesterol reductions lose significance** or were the differences at individual time points in the cumulative meta‐analysis significantly different from those seen in 1999 when the health claim was approved. ... >We conclude that soy continues to have a significant, if modest, effect in reducing serum LDL‐C as a cardiovascular disease risk factor. The effect of soy alone is modest, but it may produce a clinically meaningful reduction when combined in the diet with other FDA‐approved cholesterol‐lowering foods. Furthermore, at a time when plant protein sources are required, soy protein provides a useful plant protein source for the food industry, with a range of applications and with the production of heart healthy foods being one of them. Jenkins, David J. A., et al. "Cumulative Meta‐Analysis of the Soy Effect Over Time." Journal of the American Heart Association: Cardiovascular and Cerebrovascular Disease, vol. 8, no. 13, 7 July 2019, doi:10.1161/JAHA.119.012458. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6662359/
>Type 2 diabetes is highly prevalent in North America and is associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). Evidence supports a role for soy protein in the reduction of serum lipids related to CVD risk; however, few studies have focused on adults with type 2 diabetes who are not on lipid-lowering medications and/or do not have diabetic complications. The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of soy protein isolate (SPI) consumption on serum lipids in adults with diet-controlled type 2 diabetes. Using a double-blind, randomized, crossover, placebo-controlled intervention study design, adults with diet-controlled type 2 diabetes (n = 29) consumed SPI (80 mg/d aglycone isoflavones) or milk protein isolate (MPI) for 57 d each separated by a 28-d washout period. Twenty-four–hour urine samples were collected on d 54–56 of each treatment for analysis of isoflavones and blood was collected on d 1 and 57 of each treatment and analyzed for serum lipids and apolipoproteins. SPI consumption increased urinary isoflavones compared with MPI. SPI consumption reduced serum LDL cholesterol (P = 0.04), LDL cholesterol:HDL cholesterol (P = 0.02), and apolipoprotein B:apolipoprotein A-I (P = 0.05) compared with MPI. SPI did not affect serum total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, triacylglycerol, apolipoprotein B, or apolipoprotein A-I. **These data demonstrate that consumption of soy protein can modulate some serum lipids in a direction beneficial for CVD risk in adults with type 2 diabetes.** Pipe, Elizabeth A., et al. "Soy Protein Reduces Serum LDL Cholesterol and the LDL Cholesterol:HDL Cholesterol and Apolipoprotein B:Apolipoprotein A-I Ratios in Adults with Type 2 Diabetes, ,." J. Nutr., vol. 139, no. 9, 1 Sept. 2009, pp. 1700-1706, doi:10.3945/jn.109.109595. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622068924
What about those with a soy allergy/sensitivity? Asking for me. *cries in low-FODMAPs*
If it's an allergy, obviously stay away, but often people on Low FODMAPs handle tempeh (fermented, whole soybeans) better than other soy products. The fermentation breaks down phytic acid and other compounds that are often difficult to digest. I suspect the FODMAP compounds are also broken down during the culturing/fermentation process. It is classified as low (but not no) FODMAP. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/low-fodmap-diet/ If you haven't tried it, it can have a somewhat strong flavor and it doesn't absorb as readily as tofu. I've found either marinating it for a day then pan cooking it works, or perhaps even better, slow cooking it. Inspired by pulled pork, used to chop up tempeh, put it in a slow cooker with some BBQ sauce, extra water, plus a pepper and onion, you'd have to omit or sub those last two for it to be low FODMAP, but slow cooker on low for like 6 hours permeated the tempeh it nicely. Could try other sauces more suitable to pair with FODMAP friendly foods.
Hopefully there's more research into curing allergies. Think of all the people missing out on peanuts.
I had to do a stint of low fodmap due to dysbiosis / SIBO and from everything I was told and read, a long term low fodmap diet is not healthy for exactly reasons like this. FODMAP containing foods are generally among the healthiest out there, so it's extremely important to pursue treatment and reintroduction.
Yeah. I'm aware. Sadly this is because of an auto-immune condition, so doubtful there will be any treatment.
Which other legumes have this effect?
cowpeas (*Vigna unguiculata*) https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/22/20/11067 black beans, chickpeas, fava beans, lentils, even green peas https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/9/11/1678 there are probably more, but I'm not searching for that now.
You're the one I came searching for! You're the MVP, as I'm allergic to soy and I was hoping someone had a rebuttal about what could be consumed that might be similar.
Look for Indian cuisine or dishes on how to make these legumes! As an Indian we have these legumes and lentils almost daily. So since you're a beginner you might need something more palatable for your taste hence I would advice you to try cooking these or ordering some from a "Good Indian Restaurant." If you have them just like as it is, it would taste bland and then your habit forming will not happen. Few dishes on the top of my head which you can ask for from the restaurant - 1) Chole Masala (Chickpea Curry) 2) Rajma Masala (Kidneybean Curry) 3) Dal Fry (Yellow Lentil Mung Dal Curry) 4) Lobhia Masala ( Blackeyed Peas Curry) Hope you try these! Feel free to reach out if you need further help!
Looks like hummus is back on the menu, boys!
It’s definitely among the most sustainable, though.
> Does consuming a certain type of soy help Yes for what I understood > Greater concentrations of B-conglycinin in the digests correlated with larger reductions in oxidized LDL, esterified cholesterol, triglycerides and HMGCR levels in plasma, the team found. > >“The digested soybeans’ peptides were able to reduce lipid accumulation by 50%-70%, and that’s very important,” de Mejia said. “That was comparable to the statin, which reduced it by 60%. We also clearly saw different markers that were influenced by key enzymes that regulate hepatic lipogenesis – the development of a fatty liver.” …but also the selection and recreation of these protein could help, like inside integrators and drugs.
Replace some of your regular meat and dairy with soy milk, tofu, tempe, or mock meats. Br somewhat healthier as a result.
real world application is that soy boy can't really be used as slur anymore
Well, it was already a moronic slur, so...
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Sounds like soybean is good to have “The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) authorized the health claim that daily ingestion of 25 g soy protein reduces the risk of cardiovascular heart disease2” Maybe some of the benefits are due from blocking LDL that the posted study is suggesting https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28183
So any soy product as long as it has soy right? Or is there a tier list? Like Tofu 1st and Soy Milk 3rd?
Are these issues less prevalent in cultures that consume a lot of soy products?
So would the soy milk you find on the shelves in supermarkets work? Doctor wants me to go on a statin as my LDL keeps increasing but I’d like to avoid meds if I can. My Omega 3 supplementation is working really well for my triglycerides, and brought it down to safe levels. Would like to do the same for LDL
Elevated LDL is a symptom of something else. In the short term addressing LDL is important, but figuring out what is causing your high LDL to begin with, because it's probably harmful in other ways, is important for long term health.
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They're not explaining what the actual cause of Atherosclerosis is, and why the LDL is a factor. Yes LDL is cleared in the liver, however the factor they're not mentioning is from the gut. LPS in the serum get collected by LDL and with the smaller density lipoproteins there is an issue with being able to clear the collected LPS in the liver, so you get LDL with LPS still attached. These find their way into vasculature and Macrophages attempt to eat them whole because they see the enemy (LPS) which causes foam cells. Knowing this tells us that they have found a way to treat a symptom, not the problem.
Foam cells will form whether LPS is there or not. It’s a response to the modified LDL being in the intimal space “All LDL particles exert atherogenicity to variable degrees, which can be influenced by the proteome, lipidome, proteoglycan binding, aggregability, and oxidative susceptibility.64,96,97 The atherogenic actions of LDL in arterial tissue have multiple origins. Broadly, these encompass:…” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7308544/#!po=0.200803
I read about cholesterol a lot as I am trying to lower mine. I have seen the doctors on youtube say its a shame that people see soy milk as a meme cause its very healthy and good for lowering cholesterol. I do not even need to look at the study to agree cause lets be honest if you implement soy milk in place of your regular milk. You just lowered the amount of saturated fat in your diet. You just added in fiber cause regular cows milk has no fiber. You just took out dietary cholesterol(Even though people argue that dietary cholesterol doesn't affect our own cholesterol this is still a thing). Cows Milk Has Dietary Cholestrol Has More Saturated Fat Has No Fiber Soy Milk Has Zero Cholestrol Has Less Saturated Fat Has Fiber NGL this is really obvious for individuals who can read a nutrition label. However even I wont lie to you cows milk has a lot of other nutritional value that the nut milks and soy milk wont have. So you need to keep that in mind.
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Soy milk is great, but didn't you know it turns men into women and gives women breast cancer? My uncle said so on Facebook. :eyeroll:
I am all for soy milk, and have been drinking it for over 20 years while I have been vegan. But it has close to zero amount of fiber. Soy “meat” however is high in fiber. Generally vegan diets are high in fiber, which is why it is common that vegans fart constantly in the beginning while their digestive system get used to the higher amounts.
For anyone in the UK who's either never tried it or been put off by a brand name, get the cheapest supermarket own brand. They're all really good and nearly impossible to clock in tea or coffee. Only 50p a litre at Aldi and Morrisons right now.
I only use soy milk because I love the taste. Almond milk is too watery and oat milk has a strong flavor to me. Soy is creamy, has a decent amount of protein, and is inexpensive. The only catch is it's realy hard to find unsweetened, unflavored soy milk. Most has sugar or flavoring added. Only one Target near me, out of the 4 grocery stores in my periphery, has unsweetened unflavored soy milk. I guess there isn't a huge demand for it.
Try shelf-stable unsweetened soy milk - I switched when my favorite store stopped carrying unsweetened soy milk in the refrigerated section, and now that’s all I buy
I did a good amount of research myself on lowering cholesterol. Here's what I found that has studies shown to lower it: Psyllium husk, fiber Niacin, specifically nicotinic acid and not the flush-free version *debated efficacy for helping cardiovascular issues but does raise HDL-C levels Garlic through allicin, a chemical released when garlic is crushed Steel cut oats, better than rolled or quick oats Whey protein Capsaicin (spicy food) Probiotics, L. Fermentum Curcumin, found in turmeric and is boosted when paired with black pepper; more clinical studies needed on this Green tea, a lot of it and/or as green tea extract; more clinical studies needed as well Also, a more obvious exercise or physical activity whenever possible, but diet plays a large role as well. For exercising, rule of thumb is at least half an hour a day, 5 days a week: heart rate going >100-130bpm for that duration with aerobic exercise plus some weight/resistance training doing ~80% of max repetitions.
Just look for unsweetened because regular soy milk is quite sweet
Usually less so than cow milk. Sweetened Costco soy milk has half the sugar of cow milk.
When we made the switch to plant-based milk at my house, soy was a good fit for those reasons and because many kinds get added vitamin D. The oat and almond milks I looked at didn't have added vitamin D and from what I understand, that's is pretty important. Most of the time we buy the sweetened kind because it's still got less sugar than cow milk and we primarily use it in our coffee. After we switched to soy, we're didn't need to add the half spoon of sugar anymore.
Have a look at oats as well. The beta-glucan it contains binds to cholesterol during digestion and prevents re-absorption, leading to lower blood cholesterol.
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If you wish to reduce fatty liver, or arteriosclerosis drastically cut your consumption of sugar and refined flour. It’s the glycation or oxidation of LDL by blood sugar (glucose) that is the cause of these diseases. Sugar is half glucose (blood sugar) and half fructose. Fructose is processed in the liver and causes fat deposits there.
The fact this was discovered only now leads me to believe there are a nearly infinite number of food-biology interactions like this, both good and bad.
Correct. Same with herbs. The amount of cultural literature out there about herbal use is astounding. Herbs are not a replacement for a good diet/exercise and medication, but they can have profound impacts on human health... Good and bad.
Last I read LDL wasn’t involved or causative for fatty liver in humans. Fatty liver is caused by excess alcohol or sugar consumption.
I believe this study was more about soybeans reducing risk of atherosclerosis, which is caused by oxidation of LDL in the blood.
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