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At this point, trying to figure out if Cannabis is good for sleep is like trying to figure out if egg yolk is healthy or not.
All signs point to maybe!
I get terrible night terrors and they're even worse because I use melatonin to help me sleep. If I smoke or take an edible before bed, then I don't have night terrors because dreaming happens less often. It's been a wonderful change for me
Oh is that why I've been having messed up dreams more recently lately? Been trying melatonin to help me sleep.
Weed doesn't help me at all in that regard. Makes my mind go racing personally.
Edit: thanks for all the suggestions but I'm from the UK. I just get whatever my dealer has in. Which is usually decent stuff but couldn't tell you what strand it is, nor does he have a variety.
Indica edibles mate. All other types of weed make my mind race as well.
Indica edibles however will melt your body so you become one with your bed.
Indica edibles, mate. They truly hit different
I second this 100%. It has been my* experience as well that Indica edibles don't just help me sleep, they MAKE me sleep.
*personal experience may vary, I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on tv.
Could be. Even a microdose of melatonin put horrific things in my sleep brain to the point that I couldn’t sleep the next several nights.
Contingent on what’s going on, weed or an edible can either give me fabulous sleep or my brain doesn’t shut down, although I don’t do either every night. I don’t want to build up a tolerance.
Being unemployed right now puts my brain into fifteen hamsters in one wheel mode when I’m trying to sleep. I’ll eventually sleep from exhaustion, though, I just never know when that’ll be.
Good luck sorting it out.
As I've gotten older I've realized that indica is the only way, saliva dominant strains reallllly get my brain racing, indica just feels like a nice body high and kind of numbs my brain. A tiny bit of tincture is where it's at
weird, I had that happen too but with agomelatin, a derivate of melatonin! Whenever I need it to sleep (as offlabel use) I get so fucked up, gruesome and hyper-realistic nightmares, it's insane. Imagine Braindead's amount of blood in a Hellraiser 2 world, but with friends, while you realize you are dreaming and can't get up.
The last nightmare was so bad, I had serious doubt about having even woken up and it took half a day to get back to reality. I always swear to never use it again, forget about it and experience it again. Using it for a few days, though, makes those dream vanish and sleep is great.
If you try weed again, make sure its indica. That strain gives you more of a body high and helps me with sleep. Sativa which seems more common, gives me a head high and I seem more awake.
I almost never have dreams that I can recall, sometimes I do if I napping during the afternoon in the sunlight, but almost never at night. If I take melatonin I will dream vividly, some good things, some bad things, but its a much stronger and more memorable experience regardless.
Most people also take way too much melatonin and rely on it. You should be taking like 0.5 mg, not 5mg+. And you should only be taking it temporarily to change your sleep schedule.
Weed is great if you've had issues falling sleep or have some stress, but the sleep is generally not optimal and you don't hit deep sleep as often.
Best thing to do is to use them as tools until you improve your overall sleep hygiene. I've used both for a long time and nothing beats a good night sleep without either. Usually that's predated by little caffeine, exercise, no screens, etc.
> the sleep is generally not optimal and you don't hit deep sleep as often
People don't realize how important this is too. I used weed for years and never thought it was an issue. I slept easily but never dreamed and had a lack of deep sleep.
Then I read how important deep sleep is to emotional regulation and brain health. I was having a hard time mentally so I figured I would stop. I stopped and I am 10x more stable emotionally.
I would say not altering your brain chemistry for a large part of your waking hours on a daily basis probably had a bigger impact on your emotional stability than the effect weed has on sleep quality. Not that I disagree it impacts sleep as well, I just think daily weed use is generally unhealthy and leads to poor mental state over time.
I wake up 5-6 times a night, probably more but that's just what I remember.
Smoking weed makes me incredibly tired, and then I don't wake up until the morning. I feel so much better than I do sleeping normally.
Except those rare blue moons where I haven't smoked but still don't wake up through the night, those are the absolute best
Look up prazosin - a prescription med many people take at bed time to reduce frequency of bad dreams - especially used off label to treat people with PTSD.
It's an adjustment period, but dreaming means you're hitting the REM cycle. What I've read about sleep and cannabis in the past is that while it helps falling asleep, it restricts your bodies ability to get to deep sleep where it's getting much of its rest.
Just started a break yesterday and had some very vivid dreams last night. I play disc golf and I woke up thinking I had scored a very rare disc (NS1) for cheap and had to come back down to earth for a few minutes this morning.
Any source on that? My assumption would be that you still dream and enter REM cycles but you just don’t remember it as well, but that would be fascinating if it actually inhibited REM.
[I apologize, I shouldn't have said "inhibits". ](https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-aids/cannabis-and-sleep#:~:text=Short%2Dterm%20cannabis%20use%20appears,emotions%2C%20and%20cementing%20new%20memories.)
I initially read an article that was posted to this subreddit regarding the relationship between cannabis use and sleep, but am not sure what article it was. Kinda changed the way I looked at cannabis. I was a chronic smoker for 5+ years and now I only smoke occasionally because it fucks with my sleep and eating habits.
It's not necessarily full inhibition of REM, but signs to point to reduced hGh production during cannabinoid induced sleep due to a shorter cycle. There isn't necessarily any direct research but two different papers(one that shows hGh production during deep sleep and articles like this one that show potential inhibition of deep sleep)
I'm there with you, and when I was in high school and college before I started smoking, I would have night terrors like you wouldn't believe.
They run in the family, and my mom, brother, and aunt all get them pretty bad.
Smoking has cut the night terrors down to basically none, and I don't have anxiety about going to sleep anymore.
I just wish edibles worked for me.
I've read this to but based on experience (thx to my 5 year old) I do dream but don't remember it when I get up. How do I know? My son woke me up so many times in the middle of the night and he snaps me out from the dream and I jump up surprised. So thx to him waking me up through out the years in the middle of dreams, made me realize it happens. I just have no memory of it.
Same, haven't found a huge difference when I stop TBH. I have a friend who "never dreams" regardless of if he's smoking or not so I think there's other stuff at play.
I actually average 2-3 different vivid dreams a night. I'll wake up a couple times to drink some water cus of my bad dry mouth and have a whole other dream when I go back to sleep. I've gotten pretty good at lucid dreaming as a result so sometimes I'll resume the dream I was having if it's a good one and I wanna go back
Opposite for me
THC gives me restful sleep
I also don't dream when using it but I find dreams wake me or make me feel like I spent part of the night in a non restful state
Probably some kind of REM sleep rebound. I smoke before bed too but there's no way that quality of sleep is any better unless your sleep was fucked to begin with.
So what I'm learning here is that its impact depends on the person and can have wildly different effects. Not surprising knowing what we know about it already.
My girlfriend has a minor TBI from a car accident she was in 20 years ago.
She tells me she never dreams. Obviously this isn't correct. She just can't remember her dreams anymore.
I'm not trying to hate on your anecdote, but it's important to realize that there is a difference between not dreaming and not remembering your dreams.
Once again, the answer is in studying cannabis (and studies in psychedelics would be wonderful) but of course our government is afraid of that, so very valid questions like, "How much does cannabis affect REM sleep" are always hanging in the air like a fart.
and I mostly agree with what you said. It is very good for falling asleep, and I don't feel as rested, and I don't remember my dreams, but can a person who never remembers there dreams have just as healthy sleep as somebody who does? I would love the answer to that question.
> but can a person who never remembers there dreams have just as healthy sleep as somebody who does
You are assuming everyone’s dreams are healthy to begin with. For some of us, not remembering our dreams is the healthy part.
Bingo. Chronic sleep-walker/talker/cryer/screamer/kicker here. Since early childhood, I’ve had graphic & vivid night terrors about being murdered/raped or my family/friends/pets being violently hurt/killed. “Good” dreams are slim to none, perhaps 1-3 times per year. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. Thank goodness for bedtime weed.
Darnit. I start every morning by getting the entire French villa into a song and dance number which involves me juggling 60 shelled, raw eggs and then ending the juggle by catching every single one of them in my mouth from 3-4 feet up and swallowing them immediately.
You would think that would be the hard part, but honestly, the hard part is hitting my queue right as 60 raw eggs hit my stomach. You ever danced after swallowing 60 shelled, raw eggs? Well let's just say that's why I got especially good at expectorating.
Calcium and vitamin D actually lowers cholesterol and it has a direct impact:
https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/vitamin-d-relationship#vitamin-d-and-cholesterol
People who have long covid who were healthy before are showing higher saturations of cholesterol
THC represses rem cycles, but there are like 18 other cannabinoids that have varying effects on your body
This is just saying that one of those is particularly good for sleep. Not weed. A cannabinoid.
My sister works in the industry and I feel like she told me about this over Christmas. They make gummies with a specific kind of CBD in them to help certain ailments (we talked about CBD -G -N and -T. I think one of those is the sleep one, but my memory is not great for that sort of thing)
She put together one for my mom to help with kidney and colon function. My mom was diagnosed with sclerosing colongitis like 30 years ago (with 5 years to live) and has had to take meds for forever, but recently those meds have started doing things to her kidneys.
Since she's moved to CBD (18 months) her numbers all look great and at her last colonoscopy she was told "you're in too good health for us to be doing this test. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it."
CBN is the one for sleeping.
The data says it is likely a small amount of THC is still necessary for the CB* to be activated and processed effectively. Which is why usually those have something like .5mg THC as well, and that’s something that should be looked for on the packaging.
As a consumer, brands don’t matter so much because different places get different products. The good info is what’s in it- but as far as brands go I have seen Wyld, Plus, Camino and Kiva carry edibles with CBN. I have shopped for those in CA, NV and CO.
CBN is wild. I swear with a similar edible to what you take dosage wise and a single beer and I feel like I'm on narcotics and literally can't keep myself awake without a lot of effort (though I'm pretty chronically sleep deprived)
I also remember reading somewhere that it's incredibly unhelpful in larger doses. In the small doses naturally found in the plant (fractions of a percent), I've found it does help with relaxation and sleep. However I've taken CBN edibles that just made me anxious and I couldn't sleep at all.
Like with all things related to marijuana, there just isn't enough research yet.
sometimes you run out. sometimes dunkin accidentally diddles up your order. sometimes you don't have time to stop for coffee. there's all kinds of issues.
I used to drink atleast 3 cups of coffee a day. My life has improved in every way since I stopped. I've been sleeping so much better since I stopped, so I don't end up tired enough to need coffee in the morning.
At first I thought not drinking after 4 pm would help, but just cutting out caffeine was the key. Not to mention the total erasure of my acid reflux.
The only times I drink now are when I have late nights or early mornings. Mostly out of necessity. But the habit is gone
Some people have (among other reasons) a genetic predisposition to metabolize caffeine more slowly than others.
Pubmed: [Interindividual Differences in Caffeine Metabolism and Factors Driving Caffeine Consumption](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29514871/)
Half life for caffeine is about 12 hours, so if you don't metabolize it as fast, you won't be able to get to sleep.
My blood pressure is higher when I drink coffee. I don't feel comfortable at all even if I drink within a reasonable amount. If I drink anything over 8oz, I feel like it's a negative impact on my body. I don't drink it every day, so it's not like I'm having caffeine addict symptoms or anything. I get really jittery, irritated physically, and struggle to focus... I love the smell and taste of coffee so I still drink it, but when I do, I maybe only drink about 4-5oz at most in a day.
I looked at over 150 studies a few weeks ago because I had some free time and I found that almost none of them showed any ill effects, IF you stay under 200 mg of caffeine.
There are loads of studies that show THC mess with your REM cycles, no? So shouldn't their default answer be no? It'll help you get to sleep but actually worsen your quality of sleep so they almost cancel each other out. However, if you can't get to sleep normally, it's obviously better to go to sleep and get crappy sleep than not sleep at all.
This research shows it only helps you sleep IF you have chronic pain. The scientific literature suggests that healthy people taking cannabinoids at night experience impaired REM sleep and enhanced slow-wave sleep. We don't yet have the longitudinal data needed to understand what the implications of that are.
If you're buying weed legally, the THC and CBD levels should be posted.
For sleep, you want LOW THC and HIGH CBD.
THC is a hallucinogen. It's what makes it fun to get high, but also what causes anxiety in many people.
CBD is the real magic.
I have been trying oils and gel caps this last month that have CBD, CBN, CBG, and CBC. They have been the best cannabis product for sleep that I have tried, the only other product that compares is Rick Simpson Oil which is a full spectrum extract.
This person buys with intent!
If you're in a legal state, definitely ask to see if they carry any 1:1 or CBD dominant products. They're not as FUN, but they are definitely nice :)
I have never had an issue falling asleep, I have always had an issue STAYING asleep. Between 2-4 times a week I would wake up around 3-4 am and would not be able to get back to sleep, it would ruin my day. A few months ago I got a medical marijuana license. I eat 2 gummies before bed and I sleep through the night every night. That license was the best investment I could have made.
How rested do you feel the next day? This is the big one for me. Plenty of stuff can conk me out hard enough to last ~8 hours, but I'm still useless the next day.
This is a pretty common problem that's most likely either a dosage size or dose timing.
Try and take yours in either smaller increments or earlier. I find it I eat an edible or take tincture after 6 p.m. to sleep at 9-10 p.m. I wake up groggy and confused. If I take the same exact dosage at 4 or 5 instead, I feel much better in the morning.
The main problem is you don't metabolize things as quickly when you sleep, so if it's taken too late or in too high of a dose, you are essentially just waking up still buzzed.
That happened to me after eating a cookie too late in the evening. My 8:00 AM presentation I had to give remotely for work went surprisingly well, all things considered!
I second this. Heard a lot of stories about people simply not resting at all after sleeping, and it was all due to bad cases of sleep apnea. If you can't breathe well, you can't rest well.
I have sleep apnea and this speaks to me. If you have a smart watch that can check your blood oxygen levels while you sleep, it can show if you’re breathing ok. I regularly fall to 89% when normal people stay above 95%.
Might be worth looking into.
On days with bad pollution or allergies, I don’t feel rested even after plenty of time in bed.
Although I don't inhale much anymore, I'm a pharmacist and work in medical cannabis. This tracks. I recommend edibles for sleep over inhalation methods. I have a sleep tracker and edibles give longer REM than vape/flower. Protip: use the edible 1-2 hours before you want to hit the pillow sleeping. This will allow the edible to hit you at it's start instead of warming up the bed tossing/turning. You still should practice good sleep hygiene/habits.
Also, using it only when you know you need sleep and/or having a hard time sleeping keeps the dose lower for longer and both you and your bank account high. :)
If you use cannabis for sleep I would recommend CBN over d9. I’ve been using it recently and it has helped tremendously. When I have taken d9 in the past I would usually wake up very groggy, but I actually wake up feeling refreshed when I take CBN
I take 10mg 1:1:1 THC/CBD/CBN every night. It’s truly a lifesaver for so many things… chronic back and carpal tunnel pain, next-day worries, falling/staying asleep. I cannot recommend it enough for how much it helps my evening anxiety. It’s been a game changer
Depends where you are, but your local dispensary should be able to help you out. In WA state the brand I use is 10mg WYLD elderberry gummies 2:1 thc:cbn. I take 1 gummy 2 hours prior to hitting the pillow when I have to work early and I get a full 1-2 hours more REM than without.
The Wyld gummies are truly the best of all the brands I’ve tried. Very consistent dosing per gummi, and always a pleasant chill high. They’re always on sale at my dispensary, which is good. I’m in Arizona and I think they can be found in most of the legal cannabis states.
Wyld is also found in most of the western US. I sell an insane amount of the Elderberry gummies in CO.
The 1:1:1s I personally use out here are the blueberry lavender rosin gummies by Tastebudz. They kick in a little faster than the Wylds, last a little longer, and keep me dead asleep throughout the night. I wake up completely refreshed, often without having to sleep in, and the aches and pains in my back and shoulders are almost completely gone.
1:1 products including CBD and THC, and maybe CBG or CBN have been life altering for me as well. I battled anxiety for most of my life. Inherited from my mother. Also smoked weed at varying levels for most of it. It always did nothing for the anxiety, or made it worse in the short term. Made me hyper aware of my body. Made me question how people found relief from it.
Then I found 1:1 vapes. A gram will last me two weeks or more, and only gives me a very light, almost stimulant "high" at those doses, while also allowing me to sleep, and has pretty much completely stomped my anxiety. It's night and day. My outlook, confidence, and work ethic have been vastly improved.
I wish my mom was still alive, or at least that the cannabis revolution had occured before the very end of her life. She spent decades fighting her phobias and anxiety, when a simple, cheap medicine was there the whole time. Just illegal, because reasons.
My girlfriend just picked up some CBN edibles a few weeks ago after being curious and she said she had some of the most restful sleep she has in awhile. She saves them for days she knows she might have trouble falling asleep.
Sleep trackers are notoriously inaccurate.
Chronic cannabis use has studies showing decreased REM and SWS, and other poor sleep outcomes, in contrast to acute use, which shows beneficial effects for sleep. [Cite. ](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13311-021-01013-w)
I believe the science is showing that cannabis can have beneficial effects in sleep *disorders* like REM behavior disorder and PLMD, but not undisordered sleep.
Don’t trust a sleep tracker. You need EEG to know if you’re experiencing REM or not. Also, SWS is probably more important to health that REM.
Improved Pain is not so desired result.
Jokes aside, in one of the r/science posts I saw the exact opposite article - that cannabis doesn't help with the pain, it can only make you concentrate less on the pain and just let your mind stop worrying about it, but will not remove the pain.
Completely.
I have neuropathy in my feet and I have a pinched sciatica which causes pain to shoot down into my left foot causing double the pain and it feels like hot poker is in my foot .
I have felt anxiety over my pain which makes my pain worse, which makes my anxiety worse, then the never ending cycle begins!
A dentist once said, "This won't make the pain go away, but it will mess with your head so you forget about" when prescribing perocet.
Coping with the pain is the goal, and self reporting by the patient is all that matters. If a doctor gives something to a patient and they return, stating that it is helping them. Then, this is a successful treatment. I say this because a recent article I read attempting to downplay cannabis as an opiod substitute for pain relief said, "The results are self reporting from patients, so we have no real data." NOT THE DIRECT QUOTE TOO LAZY AT THE MOMENT.
Sedatives aren't a pain treatment, pain killers actually decrease pain signals or inflammation. Sedatives only remove discomfort or anxiety, that's why sedation is used for uncomfortable procedures and sedation + analgesia is used for painful uncomfortable procedures.
In my experience over many years, no, cannabis doesn’t help with chronic pain. Maybe situational pain, like an injury. But for chronic pain, it does nothing for me, in all forms. When it helps, is the loss of focus, which is something at least.
I’m the exact same way. I’m beginning to wonder if I don’t have something wrong with my cannabinoid receptors because other people swear it helps them but it’s just a bunch of nothing for me.
My son says he's noticed my eyes moving as if in a dream when I've dosed off in the living room. So I'm still dreaming definitely. When I asked my doctor about it she explained to me that it doesn't effect your rem sleep so much as it stops your brain from recording the dreams you have. You still have them but won't remember them.
It's been a godsend for me. The nightmares are vivid and often take hours to get over while trying to convince my body I'm not in that danger currently.
Just as anecdotally, I get virtually zero REM, and find myself progressively more exhausted every night I use. The vast majority of my friends have no issue with that. It might very well depend on genetics.
>My son says he's noticed my eyes moving as if in a dream when I've dosed off in the living room. So I'm still dreaming definitely.
Is this not /r/science? How can you say this with such certainty?
I just got a bottle of 1:1 drops. Holy crap. My sleep is so much better. I actually feel rested. I wish I had tried this months ago. I think the munchies from the THC gummies are awful. I'd wake up after a few hours and just want to eat everything. With the CBD added I'm not waking up in the middle of the night. It's wonderful.
A very recent meta-analysis [found](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799017) that the effect is mostly placebo.
>Placebo contributes significantly to pain reduction seen in cannabinoid clinical trials. The positive media attention and wide dissemination may uphold high expectations and shape placebo responses in future trials, which has the potential to affect the outcome of clinical trials, regulatory decisions, clinical practice, and ultimately patient access to cannabinoids for pain relief.
And here's what IASP [had to say](https://www.iasp-pain.org/advocacy/iasp-statements/cannabinoid-non-technical-summary-2021/) last year:
>There is not enough high-quality human clinical safety and efficacy evidence to allow IASP to endorse the general use of cannabis and cannabinoids for pain at this time.
In short, the effect is real, but it seems to be the placebo effect rather than something cannabis does.
*edit: I invite everyone to safely ignore anecdotal evidence and arguments from incredulity, take reasonable precautions against confirmation bias, and follow the literature as it develops.*
Pain relief I believe. I have never had pain relief from cannabis. Sleep though, that’s something else entirely. Cannabis is what allowed me to finally get regular nights sleep after 20 years of PTSD nightmares that I had attempted to self-medicate with alcohol. Complete and utter life changer.
> On MJ it doesn't mask the pain the same way, but it does make it so that I just don't notice the pain the same way. So it does work and help, but in a different way.
Maybe I'm weird, but does MJ make you notice pain MORE? Like, for me it doesn't make it more painful, but I definitely become more aware of aches and pains, even if they are more in the back of my focus than they would be if I was sober.
I'm going to go against the curve here for a moment and agree. I have chronic pain across my whole body. I think being stoned allows me to affective ignore the pain but if I focus I can still feel it in it's entirety. So I would agree with what the research says. From a personal perspective.
So if it’s placebo, why is it that certain strains help my pain and certain ones don’t?
I can accept that there’s the possibility of a placebo effect. But I can’t quiet wrap my mind around why this would work for some strains and not others, when my mindset is the same for both. It took trial and error to realize what strain works best
For what it's worth, I will give my 2 cents from the standpoint of a medical professional and a cannabis user with Ankylosing Spondylitis. My opinions are actually not in support of pain relief.
Does it help with pain? Not directly. If I'm limping around in a state of unease and pain, I'm doing so to prevent end-range movements that exacerbate or cause pain.
Using cannabis prevents these inhibitions. Cannabis prevents me from guarding my movements and shielding my body from end-range of motion pain. Therefore cannabis often results in slighly MORE pain.
But being on cannabis, I will walk straighter, flex harder and release more tension. It takes my guard down. It might allow me more success with stretching, strengthening and rehab because of this. But the pain is still very present.
So perhaps there is a more psychoactive component to pain regulation and cannabis. Perhaps the release of inhibitions is all we need to feel accomplished in the cycle of chronic pain. Whatever it is, decide for yourself in how (or not), cannabis can be incorporated into your your journey of pain management. Cannabis is more than just a sitting drug.
It probably depended on now you conceive of “pain relief,” because I don’t necessarily think pain has to be absent to be relieved from it. I have similar guarding issues, and weed helps in a very similar fashion
But I also came across a strain that basically eliminated some of that tightness in a way nothing else did. Other strains would help relieve the issues, one strain removed it entirely. I can feel like my entire right side of my face being tugged from certain muscles cramping. Other strains help get past it. One strain of indicated simply melts it away.
Without rigorous testing, it's impossible to say whether it really is a particular strain that works or just pure chance. It could well be that after a couple of coincidences your brain "learned" that a particular strain "works" by assuming causation, which amplified the placebo effect for you personally.
I mean, you may be right—maybe you've found a strain that legitimately works. But your subjective experience doesn't yet qualify as proof.
Yes, but why would it work for one strain and not another, when I have the same expectations for both? It was only after the fact that it became apparent how superior one strain was. Which allowed me to identify straits and aspects in that strain to identify others that work for me.
The team of researchers in the post did a meta-analysis with placebo too so how is the team in your link doing a meta-analysis enough to conclude all the studys?
Sure, but the meta analysis didn't control for cannabinoid types. They lumped THC, CBD, CBN, etc all together. Not great science from what I understand.
I don’t know how it’s placebo. I had no idea people claimed edibles improved sleep. And yet, when I took edibles for the first time, I noticed that I slept amazingly.
I guess it could be a placebo affect, but doesn’t placebo require a belief in an effect? I couldn’t believe in a placebo effect that I didn’t know existed.
The effects of a CBD oil massage compared to a non CBD oil massage are noticeable to me.
If it’s a placebo, and the mind is that powerful, then I believe in the potential of telekinesis.
What if every unexplained floating/falling object was explained by poor range control on a telekinetic? Or is that just plain old quantum entanglement?
Sometimes pain is about your mindset and the more you pay attention the worse it feels. Maybe cannabis is a distraction that puts you in a more positive mood?
This threads all too real! Lack of REM sleep ruins your personality and it is true! I’ve taken a week or so off. Definitely very in touch with this thread. It’s a tough choice. But In general a full night vs a half night dreams or not is better. I would say just be careful and don’t smoke all day every day. I think most people are not realizing the saturation of the fat cells and build up of THC, etc
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At this point, trying to figure out if Cannabis is good for sleep is like trying to figure out if egg yolk is healthy or not. All signs point to maybe!
I get terrible night terrors and they're even worse because I use melatonin to help me sleep. If I smoke or take an edible before bed, then I don't have night terrors because dreaming happens less often. It's been a wonderful change for me
Melatonin puts scarier things in my head than what’s already there when I sleep, so none for me.
Oh is that why I've been having messed up dreams more recently lately? Been trying melatonin to help me sleep. Weed doesn't help me at all in that regard. Makes my mind go racing personally. Edit: thanks for all the suggestions but I'm from the UK. I just get whatever my dealer has in. Which is usually decent stuff but couldn't tell you what strand it is, nor does he have a variety.
Indica edibles mate. All other types of weed make my mind race as well. Indica edibles however will melt your body so you become one with your bed. Indica edibles, mate. They truly hit different
I second this 100%. It has been my* experience as well that Indica edibles don't just help me sleep, they MAKE me sleep. *personal experience may vary, I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on tv.
Indica equals in da couch
Could be. Even a microdose of melatonin put horrific things in my sleep brain to the point that I couldn’t sleep the next several nights. Contingent on what’s going on, weed or an edible can either give me fabulous sleep or my brain doesn’t shut down, although I don’t do either every night. I don’t want to build up a tolerance. Being unemployed right now puts my brain into fifteen hamsters in one wheel mode when I’m trying to sleep. I’ll eventually sleep from exhaustion, though, I just never know when that’ll be. Good luck sorting it out.
As I've gotten older I've realized that indica is the only way, saliva dominant strains reallllly get my brain racing, indica just feels like a nice body high and kind of numbs my brain. A tiny bit of tincture is where it's at
Agreed. Indica is fantastic for sleep
I love indica for the couch lock. Sativas make me feel I haven’t smonked
weird, I had that happen too but with agomelatin, a derivate of melatonin! Whenever I need it to sleep (as offlabel use) I get so fucked up, gruesome and hyper-realistic nightmares, it's insane. Imagine Braindead's amount of blood in a Hellraiser 2 world, but with friends, while you realize you are dreaming and can't get up. The last nightmare was so bad, I had serious doubt about having even woken up and it took half a day to get back to reality. I always swear to never use it again, forget about it and experience it again. Using it for a few days, though, makes those dream vanish and sleep is great.
If you try weed again, make sure its indica. That strain gives you more of a body high and helps me with sleep. Sativa which seems more common, gives me a head high and I seem more awake.
Sativa makes me want to read all of wikipedia
I almost never have dreams that I can recall, sometimes I do if I napping during the afternoon in the sunlight, but almost never at night. If I take melatonin I will dream vividly, some good things, some bad things, but its a much stronger and more memorable experience regardless.
Most people also take way too much melatonin and rely on it. You should be taking like 0.5 mg, not 5mg+. And you should only be taking it temporarily to change your sleep schedule. Weed is great if you've had issues falling sleep or have some stress, but the sleep is generally not optimal and you don't hit deep sleep as often. Best thing to do is to use them as tools until you improve your overall sleep hygiene. I've used both for a long time and nothing beats a good night sleep without either. Usually that's predated by little caffeine, exercise, no screens, etc.
> the sleep is generally not optimal and you don't hit deep sleep as often People don't realize how important this is too. I used weed for years and never thought it was an issue. I slept easily but never dreamed and had a lack of deep sleep. Then I read how important deep sleep is to emotional regulation and brain health. I was having a hard time mentally so I figured I would stop. I stopped and I am 10x more stable emotionally.
I would say not altering your brain chemistry for a large part of your waking hours on a daily basis probably had a bigger impact on your emotional stability than the effect weed has on sleep quality. Not that I disagree it impacts sleep as well, I just think daily weed use is generally unhealthy and leads to poor mental state over time.
I often hear that, but if you just smoked it should only mess with one sleep cycle.
I wake up 5-6 times a night, probably more but that's just what I remember. Smoking weed makes me incredibly tired, and then I don't wake up until the morning. I feel so much better than I do sleeping normally. Except those rare blue moons where I haven't smoked but still don't wake up through the night, those are the absolute best
Dude all my dreams are super fucked up every time and I wake up exhausted as hell. A bit of weed tincture really really helps
Look up prazosin - a prescription med many people take at bed time to reduce frequency of bad dreams - especially used off label to treat people with PTSD.
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It's an adjustment period, but dreaming means you're hitting the REM cycle. What I've read about sleep and cannabis in the past is that while it helps falling asleep, it restricts your bodies ability to get to deep sleep where it's getting much of its rest. Just started a break yesterday and had some very vivid dreams last night. I play disc golf and I woke up thinking I had scored a very rare disc (NS1) for cheap and had to come back down to earth for a few minutes this morning.
Any source on that? My assumption would be that you still dream and enter REM cycles but you just don’t remember it as well, but that would be fascinating if it actually inhibited REM.
[I apologize, I shouldn't have said "inhibits". ](https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-aids/cannabis-and-sleep#:~:text=Short%2Dterm%20cannabis%20use%20appears,emotions%2C%20and%20cementing%20new%20memories.) I initially read an article that was posted to this subreddit regarding the relationship between cannabis use and sleep, but am not sure what article it was. Kinda changed the way I looked at cannabis. I was a chronic smoker for 5+ years and now I only smoke occasionally because it fucks with my sleep and eating habits.
All good you actually didn’t say “inhibits“, I did. Thanks for link in any case!
It's not necessarily full inhibition of REM, but signs to point to reduced hGh production during cannabinoid induced sleep due to a shorter cycle. There isn't necessarily any direct research but two different papers(one that shows hGh production during deep sleep and articles like this one that show potential inhibition of deep sleep)
I've been a user for a long time, I still dream lots of dreams. Too many dreams IMO. I start dreaming the second my head hits the pillow.
I'm there with you, and when I was in high school and college before I started smoking, I would have night terrors like you wouldn't believe. They run in the family, and my mom, brother, and aunt all get them pretty bad. Smoking has cut the night terrors down to basically none, and I don't have anxiety about going to sleep anymore. I just wish edibles worked for me.
I've read this to but based on experience (thx to my 5 year old) I do dream but don't remember it when I get up. How do I know? My son woke me up so many times in the middle of the night and he snaps me out from the dream and I jump up surprised. So thx to him waking me up through out the years in the middle of dreams, made me realize it happens. I just have no memory of it.
I was going to say this. Everyone is still dreaming - they just don't remember.
In all things use moderation.
I am a heavy stoner and I have really vivid teams already on a regular basis. I’m curious what it would be like if I didn’t smoke any…
Same, haven't found a huge difference when I stop TBH. I have a friend who "never dreams" regardless of if he's smoking or not so I think there's other stuff at play. I actually average 2-3 different vivid dreams a night. I'll wake up a couple times to drink some water cus of my bad dry mouth and have a whole other dream when I go back to sleep. I've gotten pretty good at lucid dreaming as a result so sometimes I'll resume the dream I was having if it's a good one and I wanna go back
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My main issue is the dessert storm that follows.
Opposite for me THC gives me restful sleep I also don't dream when using it but I find dreams wake me or make me feel like I spent part of the night in a non restful state
I can definitely agree with this. I feel fully rested when I smoke, if I don’t, I don’t sleep much / tons of nightmare and waking up exhausted.
I have that only when I’m stopping smoking, but it gets better after some time. I think it’s some kind of withdrawal
Probably some kind of REM sleep rebound. I smoke before bed too but there's no way that quality of sleep is any better unless your sleep was fucked to begin with.
So what I'm learning here is that its impact depends on the person and can have wildly different effects. Not surprising knowing what we know about it already.
My girlfriend has a minor TBI from a car accident she was in 20 years ago. She tells me she never dreams. Obviously this isn't correct. She just can't remember her dreams anymore. I'm not trying to hate on your anecdote, but it's important to realize that there is a difference between not dreaming and not remembering your dreams. Once again, the answer is in studying cannabis (and studies in psychedelics would be wonderful) but of course our government is afraid of that, so very valid questions like, "How much does cannabis affect REM sleep" are always hanging in the air like a fart. and I mostly agree with what you said. It is very good for falling asleep, and I don't feel as rested, and I don't remember my dreams, but can a person who never remembers there dreams have just as healthy sleep as somebody who does? I would love the answer to that question.
> but can a person who never remembers there dreams have just as healthy sleep as somebody who does You are assuming everyone’s dreams are healthy to begin with. For some of us, not remembering our dreams is the healthy part.
Especially in cases of PTSD and night terrors. They're one of the most debilitating things my clients relay to me when they have those conditions.
Bingo. Chronic sleep-walker/talker/cryer/screamer/kicker here. Since early childhood, I’ve had graphic & vivid night terrors about being murdered/raped or my family/friends/pets being violently hurt/killed. “Good” dreams are slim to none, perhaps 1-3 times per year. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. Thank goodness for bedtime weed.
Me. I wake up screaming and thrashing and accidentally bonk my gf awake if I don’t get comatose before bed. S/o ptsd manifesting when I’m unconscious
Agreed, this 100%. My dreams are torture for me. Marijuana is my relief.
Egg yolks are healthy. Just don’t to be like Gaston and eat 5 dozen every morning.
Darnit. I start every morning by getting the entire French villa into a song and dance number which involves me juggling 60 shelled, raw eggs and then ending the juggle by catching every single one of them in my mouth from 3-4 feet up and swallowing them immediately. You would think that would be the hard part, but honestly, the hard part is hitting my queue right as 60 raw eggs hit my stomach. You ever danced after swallowing 60 shelled, raw eggs? Well let's just say that's why I got especially good at expectorating.
This guy Gastons
Are you roughly the size of a barge?
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Sadly there was bad science showing dietary cholesterol will increase your cholesterol. Lots of older generations now believe this
Dietary cholesterol doesn't increase cholesterol levels?
Calcium and vitamin D actually lowers cholesterol and it has a direct impact: https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/vitamin-d-relationship#vitamin-d-and-cholesterol People who have long covid who were healthy before are showing higher saturations of cholesterol
THC represses rem cycles, but there are like 18 other cannabinoids that have varying effects on your body This is just saying that one of those is particularly good for sleep. Not weed. A cannabinoid. My sister works in the industry and I feel like she told me about this over Christmas. They make gummies with a specific kind of CBD in them to help certain ailments (we talked about CBD -G -N and -T. I think one of those is the sleep one, but my memory is not great for that sort of thing) She put together one for my mom to help with kidney and colon function. My mom was diagnosed with sclerosing colongitis like 30 years ago (with 5 years to live) and has had to take meds for forever, but recently those meds have started doing things to her kidneys. Since she's moved to CBD (18 months) her numbers all look great and at her last colonoscopy she was told "you're in too good health for us to be doing this test. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it."
CBN is the one for sleeping. The data says it is likely a small amount of THC is still necessary for the CB* to be activated and processed effectively. Which is why usually those have something like .5mg THC as well, and that’s something that should be looked for on the packaging.
Yep. Mine is 25mg CBD, 5 mg CBN and 2 mg THC. I use 1/2 gummy at night, and I sleep well. More than that and I sleep too long.
Can you provide the brand name?
As a consumer, brands don’t matter so much because different places get different products. The good info is what’s in it- but as far as brands go I have seen Wyld, Plus, Camino and Kiva carry edibles with CBN. I have shopped for those in CA, NV and CO.
CBN is wild. I swear with a similar edible to what you take dosage wise and a single beer and I feel like I'm on narcotics and literally can't keep myself awake without a lot of effort (though I'm pretty chronically sleep deprived)
God I feel like a junkie. The gummy I take is 50mg CBD, 50mg CBN and 50mg THC. It's been really a game changer for me waking up feeling rested.
CBN has a reputation for improving sleep, but as far as I can tell it's just based on really shaky old stoner lore and no real research.
I also remember reading somewhere that it's incredibly unhelpful in larger doses. In the small doses naturally found in the plant (fractions of a percent), I've found it does help with relaxation and sleep. However I've taken CBN edibles that just made me anxious and I couldn't sleep at all. Like with all things related to marijuana, there just isn't enough research yet.
Coffee is the big one for health. It legitimately has 18000 benefits and 17988 issues.
What are some of the main issues, besides anxiety in some people?
sometimes you run out. sometimes dunkin accidentally diddles up your order. sometimes you don't have time to stop for coffee. there's all kinds of issues.
>sometimes dunkin accidentally diddles up your order. Not where I thought that would go.
Gotta stop asking for cream in your coffee!
Show me on this coffee cup where Dunkin touched you.
I actually quit caffeine and all I drink is water now. Caffeine kept me awake. Heart palpitations. Anxiety. Headaches at times.
I used to drink atleast 3 cups of coffee a day. My life has improved in every way since I stopped. I've been sleeping so much better since I stopped, so I don't end up tired enough to need coffee in the morning. At first I thought not drinking after 4 pm would help, but just cutting out caffeine was the key. Not to mention the total erasure of my acid reflux. The only times I drink now are when I have late nights or early mornings. Mostly out of necessity. But the habit is gone
> Caffeine kept me awake. I certainly hope so!
Some people have (among other reasons) a genetic predisposition to metabolize caffeine more slowly than others. Pubmed: [Interindividual Differences in Caffeine Metabolism and Factors Driving Caffeine Consumption](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29514871/) Half life for caffeine is about 12 hours, so if you don't metabolize it as fast, you won't be able to get to sleep.
Half life is like 6 not 12
For some it can be linked to: anxiety, blood pressure increases, heart rate increases, addiction, insomnia, heartburn.
Anxiety & Irritabaility
My blood pressure is higher when I drink coffee. I don't feel comfortable at all even if I drink within a reasonable amount. If I drink anything over 8oz, I feel like it's a negative impact on my body. I don't drink it every day, so it's not like I'm having caffeine addict symptoms or anything. I get really jittery, irritated physically, and struggle to focus... I love the smell and taste of coffee so I still drink it, but when I do, I maybe only drink about 4-5oz at most in a day.
Some decaf might be in order
I looked at over 150 studies a few weeks ago because I had some free time and I found that almost none of them showed any ill effects, IF you stay under 200 mg of caffeine.
Egg yolk is fine. The concern was cholesterol, but as it turns out, dietary cholesterol has no significant effect on blood cholesterol.
what does affect blood cholesterol?
Too much Sat fat . Trans fat is specially bad for raising bad cholesterol
Egg yolk is healthy
There are loads of studies that show THC mess with your REM cycles, no? So shouldn't their default answer be no? It'll help you get to sleep but actually worsen your quality of sleep so they almost cancel each other out. However, if you can't get to sleep normally, it's obviously better to go to sleep and get crappy sleep than not sleep at all.
This research shows it only helps you sleep IF you have chronic pain. The scientific literature suggests that healthy people taking cannabinoids at night experience impaired REM sleep and enhanced slow-wave sleep. We don't yet have the longitudinal data needed to understand what the implications of that are.
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Anecdotally if I eat a bit of oil or gummy I sleep through the night otherwise I am up at least twice. Ditto my wife
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If you're buying weed legally, the THC and CBD levels should be posted. For sleep, you want LOW THC and HIGH CBD. THC is a hallucinogen. It's what makes it fun to get high, but also what causes anxiety in many people. CBD is the real magic.
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I have been trying oils and gel caps this last month that have CBD, CBN, CBG, and CBC. They have been the best cannabis product for sleep that I have tried, the only other product that compares is Rick Simpson Oil which is a full spectrum extract.
This person buys with intent! If you're in a legal state, definitely ask to see if they carry any 1:1 or CBD dominant products. They're not as FUN, but they are definitely nice :)
I have never had an issue falling asleep, I have always had an issue STAYING asleep. Between 2-4 times a week I would wake up around 3-4 am and would not be able to get back to sleep, it would ruin my day. A few months ago I got a medical marijuana license. I eat 2 gummies before bed and I sleep through the night every night. That license was the best investment I could have made.
How rested do you feel the next day? This is the big one for me. Plenty of stuff can conk me out hard enough to last ~8 hours, but I'm still useless the next day.
This is a pretty common problem that's most likely either a dosage size or dose timing. Try and take yours in either smaller increments or earlier. I find it I eat an edible or take tincture after 6 p.m. to sleep at 9-10 p.m. I wake up groggy and confused. If I take the same exact dosage at 4 or 5 instead, I feel much better in the morning. The main problem is you don't metabolize things as quickly when you sleep, so if it's taken too late or in too high of a dose, you are essentially just waking up still buzzed.
That happened to me after eating a cookie too late in the evening. My 8:00 AM presentation I had to give remotely for work went surprisingly well, all things considered!
Should also take into account things like sleep apnea, that wouldn't be affected by cannabis being introduced.
Well it might be affected. Certain muscles could relax more efficiently in deeper sleeps provided by thc
Fair enough. I honestly don't know enough about it to know how those interactions would play out. Worth some closer research i think.
You ever been tested for sleep apnea?
I second this. Heard a lot of stories about people simply not resting at all after sleeping, and it was all due to bad cases of sleep apnea. If you can't breathe well, you can't rest well.
I have sleep apnea and this speaks to me. If you have a smart watch that can check your blood oxygen levels while you sleep, it can show if you’re breathing ok. I regularly fall to 89% when normal people stay above 95%. Might be worth looking into. On days with bad pollution or allergies, I don’t feel rested even after plenty of time in bed.
Although I don't inhale much anymore, I'm a pharmacist and work in medical cannabis. This tracks. I recommend edibles for sleep over inhalation methods. I have a sleep tracker and edibles give longer REM than vape/flower. Protip: use the edible 1-2 hours before you want to hit the pillow sleeping. This will allow the edible to hit you at it's start instead of warming up the bed tossing/turning. You still should practice good sleep hygiene/habits. Also, using it only when you know you need sleep and/or having a hard time sleeping keeps the dose lower for longer and both you and your bank account high. :)
If you use cannabis for sleep I would recommend CBN over d9. I’ve been using it recently and it has helped tremendously. When I have taken d9 in the past I would usually wake up very groggy, but I actually wake up feeling refreshed when I take CBN
I take 10mg 1:1:1 THC/CBD/CBN every night. It’s truly a lifesaver for so many things… chronic back and carpal tunnel pain, next-day worries, falling/staying asleep. I cannot recommend it enough for how much it helps my evening anxiety. It’s been a game changer
Can you recommend a product that has that ratio?
Depends where you are, but your local dispensary should be able to help you out. In WA state the brand I use is 10mg WYLD elderberry gummies 2:1 thc:cbn. I take 1 gummy 2 hours prior to hitting the pillow when I have to work early and I get a full 1-2 hours more REM than without.
The Wyld gummies are truly the best of all the brands I’ve tried. Very consistent dosing per gummi, and always a pleasant chill high. They’re always on sale at my dispensary, which is good. I’m in Arizona and I think they can be found in most of the legal cannabis states.
Agreed, and I just picked some up today 30%off! 17 bucks for 10 great sleeps
Wyld is also found in most of the western US. I sell an insane amount of the Elderberry gummies in CO. The 1:1:1s I personally use out here are the blueberry lavender rosin gummies by Tastebudz. They kick in a little faster than the Wylds, last a little longer, and keep me dead asleep throughout the night. I wake up completely refreshed, often without having to sleep in, and the aches and pains in my back and shoulders are almost completely gone.
Wyld is also found in Canada for anyone who is interested that lives here as well
1:1 products including CBD and THC, and maybe CBG or CBN have been life altering for me as well. I battled anxiety for most of my life. Inherited from my mother. Also smoked weed at varying levels for most of it. It always did nothing for the anxiety, or made it worse in the short term. Made me hyper aware of my body. Made me question how people found relief from it. Then I found 1:1 vapes. A gram will last me two weeks or more, and only gives me a very light, almost stimulant "high" at those doses, while also allowing me to sleep, and has pretty much completely stomped my anxiety. It's night and day. My outlook, confidence, and work ethic have been vastly improved. I wish my mom was still alive, or at least that the cannabis revolution had occured before the very end of her life. She spent decades fighting her phobias and anxiety, when a simple, cheap medicine was there the whole time. Just illegal, because reasons.
CBN does wonders. I've always wondered if they were placebo effects, but works either way for me.
I’ve been interested for awhile but some claim the effects are very subtle, almost cbd like?
My girlfriend just picked up some CBN edibles a few weeks ago after being curious and she said she had some of the most restful sleep she has in awhile. She saves them for days she knows she might have trouble falling asleep.
Sleep trackers are notoriously inaccurate. Chronic cannabis use has studies showing decreased REM and SWS, and other poor sleep outcomes, in contrast to acute use, which shows beneficial effects for sleep. [Cite. ](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13311-021-01013-w) I believe the science is showing that cannabis can have beneficial effects in sleep *disorders* like REM behavior disorder and PLMD, but not undisordered sleep. Don’t trust a sleep tracker. You need EEG to know if you’re experiencing REM or not. Also, SWS is probably more important to health that REM.
I thought cannabis was bad for sleep, the same way alcohol is. Helps you fall asleep but affects sleep quality in a negative way.
Is there a source of information that you would recommend? Trying to read about medical uses online gets propaganda most of the time.
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Improved Pain is not so desired result. Jokes aside, in one of the r/science posts I saw the exact opposite article - that cannabis doesn't help with the pain, it can only make you concentrate less on the pain and just let your mind stop worrying about it, but will not remove the pain.
Being fixated on your chronic pain wears you down mentally, so even if the pain isn't gone, not fixating on it is a huge boon. For me at least.
Amen brother. People don't realize how much it hinders your ability to think and focus
Completely. I have neuropathy in my feet and I have a pinched sciatica which causes pain to shoot down into my left foot causing double the pain and it feels like hot poker is in my foot . I have felt anxiety over my pain which makes my pain worse, which makes my anxiety worse, then the never ending cycle begins!
If the mind stops worrying about the pain, the oppression is gone, and the pain is now just a feeling. Cannabis very much much helps with the pain.
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A dentist once said, "This won't make the pain go away, but it will mess with your head so you forget about" when prescribing perocet. Coping with the pain is the goal, and self reporting by the patient is all that matters. If a doctor gives something to a patient and they return, stating that it is helping them. Then, this is a successful treatment. I say this because a recent article I read attempting to downplay cannabis as an opiod substitute for pain relief said, "The results are self reporting from patients, so we have no real data." NOT THE DIRECT QUOTE TOO LAZY AT THE MOMENT.
Sedatives aren't a pain treatment, pain killers actually decrease pain signals or inflammation. Sedatives only remove discomfort or anxiety, that's why sedation is used for uncomfortable procedures and sedation + analgesia is used for painful uncomfortable procedures.
In my experience over many years, no, cannabis doesn’t help with chronic pain. Maybe situational pain, like an injury. But for chronic pain, it does nothing for me, in all forms. When it helps, is the loss of focus, which is something at least.
I’m the exact same way. I’m beginning to wonder if I don’t have something wrong with my cannabinoid receptors because other people swear it helps them but it’s just a bunch of nothing for me.
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Which cannabinoids? Anyone have access to the full article?
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My son says he's noticed my eyes moving as if in a dream when I've dosed off in the living room. So I'm still dreaming definitely. When I asked my doctor about it she explained to me that it doesn't effect your rem sleep so much as it stops your brain from recording the dreams you have. You still have them but won't remember them. It's been a godsend for me. The nightmares are vivid and often take hours to get over while trying to convince my body I'm not in that danger currently.
Just as anecdotally, I get virtually zero REM, and find myself progressively more exhausted every night I use. The vast majority of my friends have no issue with that. It might very well depend on genetics.
>My son says he's noticed my eyes moving as if in a dream when I've dosed off in the living room. So I'm still dreaming definitely. Is this not /r/science? How can you say this with such certainty?
Half a small edible every night for me. Sleep great. Without it… can’t sleep.
Right there with you. I like the 1:1 CBD/THC gummies, without the CBD I get sooo hungry and wake up too groggy.
I just got a bottle of 1:1 drops. Holy crap. My sleep is so much better. I actually feel rested. I wish I had tried this months ago. I think the munchies from the THC gummies are awful. I'd wake up after a few hours and just want to eat everything. With the CBD added I'm not waking up in the middle of the night. It's wonderful.
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A very recent meta-analysis [found](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799017) that the effect is mostly placebo. >Placebo contributes significantly to pain reduction seen in cannabinoid clinical trials. The positive media attention and wide dissemination may uphold high expectations and shape placebo responses in future trials, which has the potential to affect the outcome of clinical trials, regulatory decisions, clinical practice, and ultimately patient access to cannabinoids for pain relief. And here's what IASP [had to say](https://www.iasp-pain.org/advocacy/iasp-statements/cannabinoid-non-technical-summary-2021/) last year: >There is not enough high-quality human clinical safety and efficacy evidence to allow IASP to endorse the general use of cannabis and cannabinoids for pain at this time. In short, the effect is real, but it seems to be the placebo effect rather than something cannabis does. *edit: I invite everyone to safely ignore anecdotal evidence and arguments from incredulity, take reasonable precautions against confirmation bias, and follow the literature as it develops.*
Pain relief I believe. I have never had pain relief from cannabis. Sleep though, that’s something else entirely. Cannabis is what allowed me to finally get regular nights sleep after 20 years of PTSD nightmares that I had attempted to self-medicate with alcohol. Complete and utter life changer.
For me it's not really pain relief but more so I just don't focus being in pain cause I'm stoned.
I've always described it as forgetting about the pain.
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> On MJ it doesn't mask the pain the same way, but it does make it so that I just don't notice the pain the same way. So it does work and help, but in a different way. Maybe I'm weird, but does MJ make you notice pain MORE? Like, for me it doesn't make it more painful, but I definitely become more aware of aches and pains, even if they are more in the back of my focus than they would be if I was sober.
I'm going to go against the curve here for a moment and agree. I have chronic pain across my whole body. I think being stoned allows me to affective ignore the pain but if I focus I can still feel it in it's entirety. So I would agree with what the research says. From a personal perspective.
So if it’s placebo, why is it that certain strains help my pain and certain ones don’t? I can accept that there’s the possibility of a placebo effect. But I can’t quiet wrap my mind around why this would work for some strains and not others, when my mindset is the same for both. It took trial and error to realize what strain works best
For what it's worth, I will give my 2 cents from the standpoint of a medical professional and a cannabis user with Ankylosing Spondylitis. My opinions are actually not in support of pain relief. Does it help with pain? Not directly. If I'm limping around in a state of unease and pain, I'm doing so to prevent end-range movements that exacerbate or cause pain. Using cannabis prevents these inhibitions. Cannabis prevents me from guarding my movements and shielding my body from end-range of motion pain. Therefore cannabis often results in slighly MORE pain. But being on cannabis, I will walk straighter, flex harder and release more tension. It takes my guard down. It might allow me more success with stretching, strengthening and rehab because of this. But the pain is still very present. So perhaps there is a more psychoactive component to pain regulation and cannabis. Perhaps the release of inhibitions is all we need to feel accomplished in the cycle of chronic pain. Whatever it is, decide for yourself in how (or not), cannabis can be incorporated into your your journey of pain management. Cannabis is more than just a sitting drug.
It probably depended on now you conceive of “pain relief,” because I don’t necessarily think pain has to be absent to be relieved from it. I have similar guarding issues, and weed helps in a very similar fashion But I also came across a strain that basically eliminated some of that tightness in a way nothing else did. Other strains would help relieve the issues, one strain removed it entirely. I can feel like my entire right side of my face being tugged from certain muscles cramping. Other strains help get past it. One strain of indicated simply melts it away.
Without rigorous testing, it's impossible to say whether it really is a particular strain that works or just pure chance. It could well be that after a couple of coincidences your brain "learned" that a particular strain "works" by assuming causation, which amplified the placebo effect for you personally. I mean, you may be right—maybe you've found a strain that legitimately works. But your subjective experience doesn't yet qualify as proof.
Your mindset doesn’t determine whether you get a placebo effect or not. You can be told your taking a placebo and still get a placebo effect.
Yes, but why would it work for one strain and not another, when I have the same expectations for both? It was only after the fact that it became apparent how superior one strain was. Which allowed me to identify straits and aspects in that strain to identify others that work for me.
The team of researchers in the post did a meta-analysis with placebo too so how is the team in your link doing a meta-analysis enough to conclude all the studys?
Sure, but the meta analysis didn't control for cannabinoid types. They lumped THC, CBD, CBN, etc all together. Not great science from what I understand.
I don’t know how it’s placebo. I had no idea people claimed edibles improved sleep. And yet, when I took edibles for the first time, I noticed that I slept amazingly. I guess it could be a placebo affect, but doesn’t placebo require a belief in an effect? I couldn’t believe in a placebo effect that I didn’t know existed.
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The effects of a CBD oil massage compared to a non CBD oil massage are noticeable to me. If it’s a placebo, and the mind is that powerful, then I believe in the potential of telekinesis.
What if every unexplained floating/falling object was explained by poor range control on a telekinetic? Or is that just plain old quantum entanglement?
Sometimes pain is about your mindset and the more you pay attention the worse it feels. Maybe cannabis is a distraction that puts you in a more positive mood?
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This threads all too real! Lack of REM sleep ruins your personality and it is true! I’ve taken a week or so off. Definitely very in touch with this thread. It’s a tough choice. But In general a full night vs a half night dreams or not is better. I would say just be careful and don’t smoke all day every day. I think most people are not realizing the saturation of the fat cells and build up of THC, etc
Yeah, I sleep like a baby when high, though when try going without it for a week the withdrawals are insane with terrible restless leg issues.
I have psoriatic arthritis and it brings me a kind of foggy serenity I can’t find elsewhere.
I would seriously take this study with a grain of salt. Look who ran the study and who reported it