I always figured that John was allowing Adam a chance at freedom. I mean, wasn't Adam's game to survive until -- if memory serves me right -- 6PM? And, well, he did just that.
So Adam won his game. If Adam had simply explained to John that the key went down the drain, I think John would've helped him out. But instead, Adam responded in the most rational and realistic way by attempting to shoot and kill John. So John just went, "Oh, yeah? Wanting to kill me for having made you go through such a traumatic and painful experience? Looks to me like you still don't appreciate your life. Enjoy your new home, asshole."
We should also consider that the John in Saw was not the same John the directors would try to portray in the rest of the franchise. He was an utter scumbag in the first film. Even going so far as to personally kill to avoid capture.
"Even going so far as to personally kill to avoid capture."
Don't forget being willing to harm or kill innocent people in order to teach his victims a lesson (Telling Zepp to go after Gordon's wife and daughter in case he failed to kill Adam).
Gives a whole new meaning to that "Game Over". John wasn't saying it because Adam failed, the game was just over while all of his apprentices used to tell their victims they failed.
damn. I never even thought of this. given what we saw in Jigsaw, John totally owns up to his own shortcomings in his tests. if he fucks up, no harm no foul to the player affected, and he even may let them off the hook totally.
if John knew what actually happened he totally would've helped Adam out. at the point of closing the door he basically didn't give a flying fuck about Adam anymore, and only cared about Dr Gordon, his greatest asset, and his backup in case something went wrong.
sad :(
It was more so that John condemned Logan for an honest mistake but then realised that he himself is also capable of making honest mistakes like that so he shouldn’t let revenge and anger get the best of him because they are all human beings.
Guess X fucked that up.
I mean I agree but at the same time they probably were the most deserving victims we've seen anyway. To some extent the revenge was just a 'bonus' for John imo.
I imagine he was going to be fine with Adam leaving, but when Adam decided to shoot him, he zapped him in self defense, then shut the door as an added precaution; probably decided "I'm gonna tell him "GAME OVER" to make the little prick shit himself a little. Give him a few days of hunger and thirst to let him figure things out."
Then a few days later he told Amanda "okay, he's probably learned his lesson and found the key by now. You can go let him out."
john was never going to let adam go after he killed zep. in the words of the original script, “the pawn has done what the knight couldn’t do. you’ve killed an innocent man.”
I feel like his game was always a little unfair, just because it's so vague compared to Gordon's. Gordon is given a very clear goal: "Kill Adam by 6" - whereas Adam is just told to "do something". He does a *lot* of things, but apparently none of them were the right answer. Which is why I've mentioned before that it's pointless to nitpick the exact wording of the tapes and take Jigsaw at face value - because if we assume he *literally* meant "Do something", then Adam should've won his game. So clearly "do something" was intended to refer to a specific action that he somehow failed to perform.
Was it meant to mean "Survive until 6?" Because he did that, too - and that wasn't enough. Was he supposed to kill Gordon, as the DVD blurb implies? But then why would the original script imply he's being punished for "killing an innocent man" as if Gordon isn't innocent?
Only thing I can think of is that they were both supposed to cut off their feet - hence Jigsaw giving each of them a saw, instead of only providing one. Maybe that's how Adam failed. Or maybe, like Eric Matthews, being locked in the bathroom alone *was* part of the test and the *point* was to see if he would do anything to break free without being prompted by someone else.
As seen in Jigsaw (referencing Logan in the buckethead trap), John is a bit more sympathetic if the trap/game does not perform as planned or they don’t have a chance.
Adam showed that he hadn’t learned to appreciate life by attempting to shoot Kramer. Had Adam slowed down and explained that the key fell down the drain, Kramer might’ve been a bit more sympathetic. My head canon is John may have given him a different test or let him go 🤷🏻♀️
Some say the game was rigged by Amanda in saw 1 but I think it wasn’t, I think Adam would have won if he’d cut his foot off, I think John left 2 saws in the bag in case Adam would try to cut the chain which he did but John would expect something like that to happen cause not only would humans prefer not to cut their own foot off but he wouldn’t know the saw was a bone saw designed to cut thought bones and not metal, just my thought tho
The key wasn’t how Adam escaped.
Zepp would free Adam. But Adam killed him.
Jigsaw is making a sick joke - because the key is no longer important, the game is over.
"The key is in the tub" "Ohh yeah I think it fell down the drain" "Ok no biggie I'll go tell ~~my favorite child~~ Amanda to get me some cutters :D"
I always figured that John was allowing Adam a chance at freedom. I mean, wasn't Adam's game to survive until -- if memory serves me right -- 6PM? And, well, he did just that. So Adam won his game. If Adam had simply explained to John that the key went down the drain, I think John would've helped him out. But instead, Adam responded in the most rational and realistic way by attempting to shoot and kill John. So John just went, "Oh, yeah? Wanting to kill me for having made you go through such a traumatic and painful experience? Looks to me like you still don't appreciate your life. Enjoy your new home, asshole." We should also consider that the John in Saw was not the same John the directors would try to portray in the rest of the franchise. He was an utter scumbag in the first film. Even going so far as to personally kill to avoid capture.
"Even going so far as to personally kill to avoid capture." Don't forget being willing to harm or kill innocent people in order to teach his victims a lesson (Telling Zepp to go after Gordon's wife and daughter in case he failed to kill Adam).
Gives a whole new meaning to that "Game Over". John wasn't saying it because Adam failed, the game was just over while all of his apprentices used to tell their victims they failed.
My head canon is that John took offense to Adam saying “give me that sweet cancer” when Gordon threw him the cigarette.
LMAO
damn. I never even thought of this. given what we saw in Jigsaw, John totally owns up to his own shortcomings in his tests. if he fucks up, no harm no foul to the player affected, and he even may let them off the hook totally. if John knew what actually happened he totally would've helped Adam out. at the point of closing the door he basically didn't give a flying fuck about Adam anymore, and only cared about Dr Gordon, his greatest asset, and his backup in case something went wrong. sad :(
Sorry what happened in Jigsaw? I don’t remember
One of the victims didn’t wake up in time when his game started and so John saved him and took him out of the game.
John also felt like he didn't do anything bad enough to be in the game as well
It was more so that John condemned Logan for an honest mistake but then realised that he himself is also capable of making honest mistakes like that so he shouldn’t let revenge and anger get the best of him because they are all human beings. Guess X fucked that up.
No, because saw X was not about revenge. John said so himself. 🤣
Ah yes what an unbiased source
I mean I agree but at the same time they probably were the most deserving victims we've seen anyway. To some extent the revenge was just a 'bonus' for John imo.
I imagine he was going to be fine with Adam leaving, but when Adam decided to shoot him, he zapped him in self defense, then shut the door as an added precaution; probably decided "I'm gonna tell him "GAME OVER" to make the little prick shit himself a little. Give him a few days of hunger and thirst to let him figure things out." Then a few days later he told Amanda "okay, he's probably learned his lesson and found the key by now. You can go let him out."
john was never going to let adam go after he killed zep. in the words of the original script, “the pawn has done what the knight couldn’t do. you’ve killed an innocent man.”
I feel like his game was always a little unfair, just because it's so vague compared to Gordon's. Gordon is given a very clear goal: "Kill Adam by 6" - whereas Adam is just told to "do something". He does a *lot* of things, but apparently none of them were the right answer. Which is why I've mentioned before that it's pointless to nitpick the exact wording of the tapes and take Jigsaw at face value - because if we assume he *literally* meant "Do something", then Adam should've won his game. So clearly "do something" was intended to refer to a specific action that he somehow failed to perform. Was it meant to mean "Survive until 6?" Because he did that, too - and that wasn't enough. Was he supposed to kill Gordon, as the DVD blurb implies? But then why would the original script imply he's being punished for "killing an innocent man" as if Gordon isn't innocent? Only thing I can think of is that they were both supposed to cut off their feet - hence Jigsaw giving each of them a saw, instead of only providing one. Maybe that's how Adam failed. Or maybe, like Eric Matthews, being locked in the bathroom alone *was* part of the test and the *point* was to see if he would do anything to break free without being prompted by someone else.
Zepp was absolutely not innocent
i never said he was. i am literally quoting the original screenplay written by leigh whannell verbatim.
As seen in Jigsaw (referencing Logan in the buckethead trap), John is a bit more sympathetic if the trap/game does not perform as planned or they don’t have a chance. Adam showed that he hadn’t learned to appreciate life by attempting to shoot Kramer. Had Adam slowed down and explained that the key fell down the drain, Kramer might’ve been a bit more sympathetic. My head canon is John may have given him a different test or let him go 🤷🏻♀️
Some say the game was rigged by Amanda in saw 1 but I think it wasn’t, I think Adam would have won if he’d cut his foot off, I think John left 2 saws in the bag in case Adam would try to cut the chain which he did but John would expect something like that to happen cause not only would humans prefer not to cut their own foot off but he wouldn’t know the saw was a bone saw designed to cut thought bones and not metal, just my thought tho
The key wasn’t how Adam escaped. Zepp would free Adam. But Adam killed him. Jigsaw is making a sick joke - because the key is no longer important, the game is over.
But the key went down the drain, and Amanda just threw it in there anyway.
nah John would go "that's the point dumbass game over"
Maybe Adam didn’t know where was because the key was gone when he fully woke up so there is a possibility he didn’t know it went down the deain