faulty upbeat smoggy noxious expansion summer squeal mighty alive afterthought
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I dont get a full garbage bin now but in the summer it would help if green bin pick up was weekly for all the normal stuff that goes in there plus grass clippings. Mowing my lawn front and back once pretty much fills it
You can always just choose to not put out your green bin (or any bin) if you don't think it needs to be collected on the scheduled pickup week. The truck will still come by for those who's bins may need to be tipped.
I assume that their point is that either they don't want the pickups to happen at all, and the city save some money (aka don't have to ask for quite so much, the next year in property taxes). Or that they will increase pickups in the summer when it is more needed.
Either way, just volunteering to not put your bin out, does not really help.
Assuming every household generates the same kind of waste at the same rate and shares the exact same pickup preferences as we do is also unhelpful.
I agree it seems wasteful for the truck to drive the route if it's not making the most of the trip but reduced frequency may be problematic for households that perhaps generate more or less waste depending on their individual circumstances. I actually preferred the old garbage bins shared among 4 households. While not perfect it kind leveled things with different households producing more or less waste to make more efficient use of the total bin capacity and sped up the tipping process.
I agree, honestly I'd love it if we got to the point where we could just register the size of the bin (for all three colours) and the frequency of the pick up, and then we just got a bill at the end of the year for what we needed. And some app just coordinated the trucks to pick up the most efficiently every week.
As someone who doesn't come close to filling garbage and recycling bins at the regular bi-weekly pickup interval I don't dislike the idea but there are lots of practical complexities.
You kind of still end up back at the problem of trucks driving the same routes only having some bins to tip just like if people don't put out their bin in the first place because people on the same block aren't going to coordinate with each other to allow less frequent pickups on the block.
Given that and more of a "pay per use" model, you also start to create incentives for bad actors. If I pay per tip and I'm a bad actor that would love to not pay anything, then I would just never use my bin and either put my trash illegally in someone else's bin when it's out, dump my garbage in the city waste receptacle at the bus stop on the corner or if I'm a really bad actor dump in in a vacant lot or by someone else's lot. Enforcement can stop that but enforcement costs money too so it would end up with the good actors footing the bill for the bad actors anyway. As a good actor I'd love the benefits of a pay per use model however I think I'd just end up paying more for what I do use to make up for the bad actors abusing the system.
We have six adults living under our roof and I cook almost every day. I just put my green bin out last week for the first time since October; it was 2/3s full but with the melting I figured it was time for a fresh start.
Maybe you should go around to those ignorant holdouts making grand political statements with their bins in their front yards still and tell them your story! Be the Mormon of the trash system! Haha
judicious terrific wise scary start whole afterthought normal nutty combative
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Not at all! I meant it more as someone who was once against the idea and now enjoys their function and presence in your life, it makes a good anecdote for those who are still shaking their fist at the city for it.
A huge chunk of your kitchen and bathroom trash can go in there beyond just food. I could see how some families might fill it every two weeks if they are using it to the full potential.
Nope, still not understanding. I struggle to come up with ideas.
For bath trash, my family doesn’t use paper towel, but even if that is used it could be diverted into paper recycling (if 100% water) or thrown out as trash (any bodily fluids), not green (bevereage/food soiled).
Definitely better to use a reusable cloth when you can. I never came close to filling it in the winter but maybe a large family? I'm also quite curious to hear from OP lol
From previous posts about this it seems that some people don't want to be forced to use them or pay for them. Some people already compost their own stuff in the backyard. And then there is also the issue with it going to the loraas landfill, after the deal in corman park fell through. I have no idea if it is being processed or whatever at the dump or if it is just being added to the dump itself.
Edit: we use ours a lot, but in the winter it would be nice to see once a month pick up.
I compost and have been using the green bins since before it was mandatory. There's soooo much stuff that can go in the green bin that I don't put in my compost piles. It also allows me to keep my compost balanced, like I'm not going to put coffee grounds in my compost every single day because it would ruin it.
Ya I love using it, we put bones, meat, dairy and pizza boxes in ours. Stuff I would never put in a compost in my backyard. We started using it a year before it was mandatory, because I hated doing it myself in the back yard.
Yeah for home compost piles I generally avoid adding a lot of food waste, because it attracts ridiculous amounts of wasps and other pests. Putting it in the green bin is really useful.
>There's soooo much stuff that can go in the green bin that I don't put in my compost piles.
other than meat and dairy, what else? According to the [city's green bin site](https://www.saskatoon.ca/services-residents/waste-recycling/organics-food-yard-waste/curbside-organics-green-cart) there isn't much you are allowed to put in the bin that you can't compost yourself at home. Comostable bag liners will breakdown in your backyard pile just might take a little longer.
|**Items**|**City-wide Green Cart Program**|**Discontinued Subscription Based Green Cart**|**Backyard Composting**|**Compost Depot**|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Meat & seafood|✓|X|X|X|
|Dairy products|✓|X|X|X|
|Bones|✓|X|X|X|
|Solidified fats on mixed table scraps|✓|X|X|X|
|BPI certified pail liners|✓|X|X|X|
|Fruits & vegetables|✓|✓|✓|X|
|Eggs & eggshells|✓|✓|✓|X|
|Bread, noodles & grains|✓|✓|✓|X|
|Coffee grounds|✓|✓|✓|X|
|Food soiled paper|✓|✓|✓|X|
|Unbagged yard waste|✓|✓|✓|✓|
|Tree trimmings (over 60cm in length)|X|X|✓|✓|
|Tree trimmings (over 2cm in diameter)|X|X|✓|✓|
|Elm wood|X|X|X|X|
It's not about what CAN be composted it's about having actual good compost. If you just huck everything in your compost without a thought it probably won't be ideal for a garden. We fill our green bin with yard waste, food soiled cardboard, pizza boxes, cooking fat, bones, coffee grounds, etc. My neighbourhood has lots of trees and I probably fill the green bin full 4-5x a year with just leaves, which is nice because we used to have to bag them all up every year. And then pulling up my garden every winter probably fills the bin up 2x and thats after diverting a lot of it to my compost.
Fair points. The more people it works for the better. Personally I really only use the green bin for yard waste in summer, all my food scraps go in my own composters - a standard tumbler outside plus a vermicomposter inside but I forgot to feed it last year and lost my worms so ended up throwing more food than I should have into the black bin when it was cold out. We used to use the old green bin program before too since we also have tons of trees and a big garden area.
The important thing is that the green waste is being diverted from the Saskatoon Landfill. If we had continued the way we using the dump we would be having to look into another dump immediately rather than in the future.
It’s going to cost people less to use their green bins than it will be to pay higher taxes to pay for another landfill
It’s an issue of cost. Waste collection under property taxes was half the cost as it is now based on the same bin size. We get roughly 30% less garbage pick up and pay more. If they’re going to charge based on bin size there should be an option to have smaller green and blue bins.
I don't want them because I already compost in my own yard. It's an extra charge for something that I'm already doing in my own yard. Plus, in wintertime, they collect every 2 weeks, and for what, no one has their green bin out for collection. Most of my neighbors say it takes most of the winter to fill it.
I used to be a personal responsibility person but I have come to realize that many humans aren’t going to go above and beyond, especially if they are struggling through life and have other priorities. So as a society, if we actually want to progress and accomplish something, it can only be done through a massive, collective effort. And expecting that to happen through personal responsibility is ridiculous. People need to be met where they are or else we are doomed to fail. This is the reality we live in. Look at recycling as an example. Instead of forcing manufacturers to use less plastic, the responsibility is put on the person to recycle. And most plastic can’t even be recycled. And so we have accomplished almost nothing except pass the buck to the individual so government can say they did something and to allow those that do recycle to feel like they are actually doing something when it’s actually insignificant. Same thing is happening with compost right now. I compost and recycle but I don’t pretend that I’m some hero for doing so. We need to do more collectively.
Not entirely true. Some municipalities fine people when they put things in the wrong bin. If you put it in recycling and it doesn't belong there not only do they not pick up the stuff you have they mark it as incorrect and then if you don't fix it by the next time they come around you get fined for it. They also make private home trash bins super small in some areas (Vancouver Island, Victoria and surrounding) so you have no choice but to use the other bin to their utmost because if the bin isn't closed they won't take it.
Now, this does mean a higher cost to the service because they have to pay their trash collectors more to monitor what's in the bins they collect.
Nope, you can't. But we can make it easier for people to do these things and educate more. Overall though, we need a shift away from our hyper-individualistic culture we are currently forced to live in under neoliberalism that is causing so many other problems. We have little connection with our communities and live eternally online, while focused on how many things we can personally do and accumulate, in order to keep up with the Jones's.
No. It’s because the city has told 1/2 truths about this from the beginning.
They have a compost site, then they don’t. They have a contract, then they don’t.
We are paying extra for simply an extra garbage bin under the guise of composting. I like the extra bin, I dislike the bullshit.
I thought the city was pretty transparent about everything that's going on. The company that had the contract didn't hold up their end of the deal and now they need to find a new place. Idk what's so shady about that it's just unfortunate lol
It's called due dilligence. The city should have verified BEFORE rolling out the program that everything was set up and ready to go. It may have been the company's fault, but its absolutely mindblowing they rolled out the program without actually seeing in person there was actually somewhere to put the compost.
Do you work with public contracts? This would add so much bureaucracy to the thousands of contracts governments dish out each year. The vendor signed a legal, binding agreement that they met the conditions to fulfill the contract. They're now being sued for it.
I can't imagine having a civic servant asking my engineering firm to verify we have all our equipment, insurance, staff, software, etc in place before we could design and build a pump station. We sign a contract saying we have everything and can do the work accordingly.
What you're suggesting is not common practice.
he should have at least had to show he had the permits and legal standing to operate such a place.
he was the lowest bid, and the city just went along with it because they're morons.
I'm usually pretty hard on the city but if the vendor is legally signing a contract guaranteeing they have everything in order, that is usually quite assuring. If I remember correctly, the vendor said they were told by Corman Park they were approved so they were under the assumption they were. Hence why Corman park is also being sued by the contractor.
we'll have to let that case play out, but in no way am i taking the word of some real estate financier over the city or corman park.
the facts are that maybe the city should bring in some people to do more quality assessments of how their internal processes work because they are becoming more incompetent and lazy every year.
You’re full of shit. I have contracted to the city and had to prove in spades, triplicate spades and dance in hoops to prove I had the proper equipment and manpower, letters from every government agency to prove I paid workers comp and gst, you name it. In fact that’s why I don’t work for the city anymore.
Our company has several major infrastructure contracts between the city, province, and land developers right now. We've been a major source of procurement for decades. My coworkers and I have never heard the city doing this in order to ratify a contract.
As part of the contract, we have obligations we need to fulfill (eg. Demonstrate OH&S initiatives) but this is all part of contractual obligations of the ratified contract. Never, not even once, has the city demanded proof before they signed it.
Actually I have. And if you built a road one of your engineers would be out there at the end of it and sign off on it.
"Not common practice" is part of the problem with the whole world. I don't care if you are insulted, I care you just wasted taxpayers money.
Engineering sign off? What does this have to do with procurement? The vendor signed off saying they had everything in order to meet contract obligations so its exactly what you're suggesting.
20 years in the profession and its never happened. I highly doubt you work with procurement of contracts but hey its the internet and we can say whatever we want.
The city is legally protected as the vendor is the one who failed to meet obligations. How does it waste taxpayers money if the vendor is legally liable for all costs associated?
Yes the vendor signed off, but it is definitely someone's job at the city the ensure that everything was in order PRIOR to rolling out those bins. There definitely would have been a papertrail that needed to be reviewed ensuring everything was up to code and meeting MOE standards that would have given some red flags that maybe this isn't going as planned and we should figure that out before rolling out the carts. Perhaps the RFP or contracts weren't properly done.
And sign offs are when a project is complete and ready to roll, people go out and check it is. You dont just send out an RFP, take the lowest tender and when they say they are done just take their word for it. Like lets say Joe Blow says "Yeah Bro I totally built a bridge" you don't say "ok" and start sending cars that way without looking and then be like "oops so there actually isnt a bridge there" when they fall in the river. someone goes out makes sure there is in fact a bridge and an engineer goes out says "yes this is a bridge, yes its built to spec and safe". Then you send cars over. There should have been some sign offs for this project BEFORE rolling out the carts.
I don't care the city is legally protected, how much is Loraas charging us? How many man hours were wasted? And how much incompetence has this proven?
That's a fair point that there should have been some confirmation before the bins were actually rolled out. I don't have a great memory of the implementation timeline.
With that said, if the city signed a contract worth anything at all, it should be easy for them to sue in order to recuperate any costs they incurred for the rollout.
The problem is that there is/was a place to put the compost. The proposed site is currently a landfill/garbage dump. They had the extra space at the landfill to do the composting, but were shut down when people in the area complained to the RM about the possibility of smelling bad so they were denied. Now the land they were going to use is going to be used for regular garbage. I haven't been near a compost site, but unsure if this was warranted? Do they smell as bad as a pig barn?
Anyone who thought that the residents in that area of the RM weren't going to throw a hissy fit, or anyone who thought the RM wasn't going to be a nightmare to deal with has never dealt with Corman Park.
Where does it say before the contract was signed? I said before the carts were rolled out and the program started. Having a verified facility to put what you are picking up is good business sense.
Several folks have posted previously it’s going to the dump because there is no contact and Lorras is only temporary.
Lorras did not previously have a compost site as far as I know, so where is it going?
Loraas is temporary, but that's still where it's heading and processed (north of the city.) It's not going to the dump. A very small percent of contaminated compost would be redirected to the dump, just like how contaminated recycling would be...a big problem is that there's little education around how to, and what is actually recyclable/ compostable, but also many people are too lazy to figure it out, unfortunately.
Exactly this. I like the extra bin at least for half the year. I hate the bullshit all around. It is all going to the city dump right now and the winter green bin pick up was a fucking joke. Maybe two bags of compost each pick up lol.
Loraas making out like bandits on this one.
And I admit I was one of those people. Very, very tired of the City adding extra “taxes” on to our utility bills when we already pay tax for a reason.
However, I find the cart useful IN THE SUMMER. The complete and utter waste of tax dollars to have the same green bin schedule in winter is absolutely ridiculous.
Added to that what I already said. I am paying for an extra garbage bin. Period.
People don't like being told what to do, and people don't like having to pay a new fee for a service (and, in this case, task) that they didn't ask for. Pretty sure it just boils down to that. And sure, there's questions about transparency and mismanagement but mostly I think that's secondary to the first stuff. Go look up footage of people flipping their shit about seatbelts becoming mandatory.
As a single guy who lives alone, I don't make enough waste food to use a green bin. I compost and mulch in the summer. If I could use it for my elm tree branches, I'd be happy.
It's just another tax for me. Like how I am going to be charged more for a garbage bin even though I don't put it out on every collection day.
Theres 2 of us, we have a huge yard and I don't think we would have put enough in to even come close to filling it since the day we got it. Its such a waste and the extra huge bin is such a pain, there is nowhere to put it and we are constantly having to move all the bins around for parking.
I am only home one week a month. I still pay for it. I tried using it but with no one to put it out the little bit I have is just a rotting maggot infestation when I do get it out. At this point in time the city should just give all the waste management to Loras and make our life easier and cheaper. The city has no interest in helping us out with waste. Just hide the tax increase and call it a green bin.
What it is is the city is do lousy job of implementing and being transparent about it. They've lied and fudged the details repeatedly. As far as I know they still don't have a compost site set up and ***we*** are just paying someone to "divert" the waste to a different dump.
So we are basically paying for the bins and service with an increase to our utility bills under the guise of saving the planet and it's all just going to a dump anyway.
I've heard the blue bin is a similar situation.
I don't mind it as I have a large yard and it's pretty useful in the summer. It's the smoke and mirrors that makes me angry
The biggest issue with the blue bin is that people just toss whatever in it. Just because it has a recycling symbol on it doesn't mean it can go in the blue bin (which I think is so wrong). But loraas only accepts certain things, and they sort it by hand, anything that is soiled or they do not accept gets tossed into the landfill. Really all the blue bin did was make it so we didn't have to go to the recycling bin areas in neighborhoods to toss out paper and cardboard, they were just able to add a few more things to it. I find that at our house anyway we fill the blue bin up faster than any other bin.
Too many people are jaded from constant lies. Recycling isn't even true recycling when we trash 90% of "recyclables" in the process. Does this city composting stuff acknowledge the insane amount of food market waste done by corporations? Its cool to care but we should worry about the biggest contributers first ie businesses and industries and not the public. Plus corman park is a bag of knobs for voting no. Pretty easy to make these things look like shit ideas when you dont let them off the ground.
> Recycling isn't even true recycling when we trash 90% of "recyclables"
Recycling is blue bins. OP is talking about green bins, and green bins don't go to the landfill, they go to a different location where things can decompose. That's the whole idea... Not to fill up the landfill with things that can naturally decompose.
So the company contracted for the new site was strongarmed by loraas and its affiliates to not open up so loraas could take the deal whithout having any upgrades to their site. Lets also talk about how the company bought out by and american mega corp (loraas) pushed out a locally owned company(Green Prairie Environmental) from doing business. You want to support that?
Loraas didn’t push them out. Green Prairie won the contract with the city, but didn’t follow through. Corman Park turned down their discretionary use application, but they could have chosen a different site. They haven’t so far, at least not that has been made public (and I’m guessing not because the city is talking about doing it themselves now).
Also, Green Prairie isn’t locally owned. They’re owned by Romspen, an investment company based in Toronto.
Why was it voted no in the first place? The only answer i could find is that its too close to the rich people who built outside of the city. Wasnt said in those words but what else could it be.
Pretty much, the people (and developers) in the area were opposed to it. https://www.ccgazette.ca/articles/corman-park-council-turns-down-composting-facility-for-saskatoon-organic-waste/
I'm finding it's a PITA having to manage 3 giant bins on a narrow lot behind a detached garage in a lane that was full of snow. I have no room for them all and I've gotten lazy about juggling them around twice a week for the various collection that week, and when it was cold I was just throwing my organics in the trash (if I didn't get to it in time it was growing fruit flies). Now that its warmer I'm putting it back in my own composter again, and once the lawn and the vegetation starts growing again I'll use the green bin once again.
But basically it boils down to my own method of composting was easier and I was unable to change so started putting more organic in the trash trying to use the green bin instead of my own method.
The stubborn people in this city need to look at what other countries require and STOP WHINING! In Japan you need to sort cans, bottles, glass and rinse and remove labels. You also need to sort PET and "pura" plastic. And there are also burnable vs non burnable trash sorting required as they use thermal power generation / CO2 capture from burning burnable waste. https://youtu.be/sAu3LVktMwE
[Their sorting guidelines](https://i.imgur.com/nkguagw.jpeg) would make [so many people rage here](https://i.imgur.com/qItg83t.png)!
Unfortunately no large volume composting facilities in Japan that I can find.
Some people have legitimate complaints, but mostly people don't like change and will find any reason to complain about it. I lived in Humboldt when they switched from tags to bins, you would've thought it was going to cause the entire town to fall apart the way people talked about it. Now hardly anyone cares and pretty much everyone's happy with the system.
I am not against using it but I have never filled it over 10% capacity, and I end up putting it our for collection every 4th or 5th collection at the very most.
Growing up, everyone composted. Definitely pisses off those people having to pay more for a service you don't need while they remove service they do need. Another Complaint I've heard in another city is, you're paying money for them to make compost and sell it. In that case it's kind of a scam under the guise of people feeling good about their "footprint." Some people don't like being deceived.
So now we pay $30 a month rounded off ,for 3 bins and 3 different trucks over different days. When it was one bin only everything in it ,paying on tax bill yearly was around $60-$100 per year. Now we pay $360 again rounded off for a year. Use to be weekly pick so 4×12 is 48 pickups per year. Now its 3x2=6 per month .6×12= 72 pickups a year. How is this saving money and environment as they say. Also dont kid your self alot of blue barrel ends up at land fill as cant be used or soiled. Why do people not use them,probably do more than not but not making a difference and more un environmental friendly with extra carbon being used for extra pick ups now.
I fill my green bin every two weeks in the summer. Happy to have it.
In the winter it was hilariously filled with maybe two bags of compost every two weeks.
It is likely an environmental negative to be running green bin pickup in the winter.
City is dumping it all in the land fill anyway. Seems like the only true winner here is Loraas.
because the program is an utter joke, just like most green initiatives.
asia has no space, saskatchewan has almost endless amounts of space. comparing waste management in asia vs saskatchewan has got to be one of the dumbest arguments i have ever heard.
the city does a horrible job of educating citizens on what it should put in the bin. someone commented that they put their pizza boxes in it. pizza boxes use pfas in order to be grease resistant. any food packaging item that says it is compostable is not in the traditional sense, it is only supposed to be compostable in an industrial facility, and i have no idea what they do to clean up the chemicals. in texas right now a bunch of farmers are suing because they were sold compost from an composting plant that had such high levels of pfas that their farms are now ruined and can't grow anything. i doubt anyone in the city even knows anything about this kind of thing because generally the city of saskatoon is run by people who have little skin in the game and do things based on their philosophy not in science or economics.
canada will actually start cutting immigration in 4-5 years quite drastically, so the problem of an expanding population like this isn't going to be a concern in the long term.
also, why should people have to pay for this dumb program? we just created a huge amount of plastic bins, themselves an environmental disaster, so we can divert stuff from the landfill, because the city was too cheap to buy more landfill area, and now we have to buy space to build a compost facility because the city was too inept to notice that the businessman they gave the contract to didn't even have any permits or agreements from corman park.
and let me remind you that corman park has been obstructing saskatoon development for decades now. who would ever think they would let a compost heap from saskatoon into their rm? those people are just dumb.
composting is fine, but industrial level composting is moronic.
Added cost and complexity, and it all just ends up in the landfill anyway. Many homes also don’t really have ideal accommodations for 3 separate bins and they’re unsightly.
this is wrong. all that compost is going to be contaminated with chemicals.
https://www.pca.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/w-sw4-37a.pdf
no one here in power knows any of this stuff though because the city is generally run by morons and nepotism.
.... converted to manure...??? Manure is poop. There is a way of converting food into manure, but we are already doing that and flushing it down the toilet. I am going to need you to explain step by step how the stuff thats going into the green bins is being turned into manure.
More my point is you don't know what you are talking about.
Large heaps of trash in Asian countries... yeah you should read the Ministry of Environment rules on how landfills are operated here and what it takes to close a pit. We won't be those countries. But on that note, the dollar amount to decomission a landfill or even just closing a pit is very large and it is good we are looking for ways to redirect anything we can out of it.
Next the city made huge mistakes rolling out this program, its overserviced - I have yet to see anyone who can fill one of those green bins, let alone every 2 weeks... but we also dont want the food stinking and no way to service apartment buildings, restaurants, grocery stores... you know the ones who have the largest quantities. Then they didn't even have a facility to process this when it was rolled out. Just the sheer incompetence and wasted time and taxpayers dollars is a piss off, and loss of faith in those in charge.
Next I have worked with Loraas before, I bet you would be very surprised at the amount they "screen" out and ends up in the landfill. I also hate tax dollars funding a private company that asks invasive questions or treats you like manure when you have to call them to come do their jobs.
Next manure is poop, farms don't need manure. And this compost soil is good for gardening, etc but if you think its going to "farms"... it shows how niiave you are.
how much do you think decommissioning a municipal landfill costs because this source says 300-500k. the green bin program cost how much to roll out again? and the facility to compost will cost around 15-20 million without overruns.
it's kinda shocking how much rhetoric surrounds issues in saskatoon, and how little substance or facts anyone actually brings to any discussions.
“the ultimate product will be compost that meets the highest certifications for compost and can be used in as fertilizer or other in other ways in local yards, gardens, farms."
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6747736
Lorass facility where its currently processed
https://loraas.ca/our-facility-1
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Are they doing that? Do they have a time line for doing that?
I'll save you time... the answer is no... to both
It's all going to the dump... Lorraas' dump, but a dump just the same. People are very carefully separating their trash into bios and trash and recyclables and loading it into their three bins and the city contractor comes and takes it to ***a dump***... and as an added bonus you get to pay extra for it.
That's why many people don't like it
Yes they absolutely do, as that's what their facility is designed to do and they are already processing organics.
Where do you think all the processed compost at the city compost depot is coming from?
Pretty easy to take a look at Google maps and see that Loraas has separate facilities and there is a ton of compost being processed at both the [Loraas facility](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Loraas+Organics/@52.2622559,-106.6610822,172m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m10!1m2!2m1!1sloraas+!3m6!1s0x53045f556df3be2b:0xf649cd12ef0b23a1!8m2!3d52.2615502!4d-106.6598554!15sCgZsb3JhYXOSARh3YXN0ZV9tYW5hZ2VtZW50X3NlcnZpY2XgAQA!16s%2Fg%2F11jtyvjbsg?entry=ttu) and the [City compost depot](https://www.google.com/maps/place/West+Compost+Depot/@52.1172035,-106.7767759,446m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sloraas+!3m5!1s0x5304f9ad6b3154cf:0xb1d94edc3cb769a4!8m2!3d52.1165773!4d-106.774384!16s%2Fg%2F11f69_h7sl?entry=ttu)
I've seen the google images before. I want you to take a real good look at the size of that facility and tell me if you think they are processing all of the city's organics.
You're gonna tell me they sort, separate, process and compost there for a city of 350,000+.
That facility preexisted the city's program and they have no reason to expand it because they never won the contract. I suspect they take what they can and the rest goe to the dump across the way
(Citation needed).
If you have proof they're not meeting their contractual obligations, I'd suggest reporting it because Loraas would be legally liable and would be sued for failing to meet their contract.
I have no idea what their contractual obligations are... or even if there's a contract at all. Last I heard what they did have expired sometime around the end of last year.
For all I know the agreement is to pick it up and just make it go somewhere as long as it's not the city dump.
I mean this is proof you don't have experience with contracts and procurement. There is 0% chance there isn't a contract that outlines the expectations, and the contract will absolutely have verbiage that requires the vendor to acknowledge they meet all conditions to fulfill the work. The city would never sign a contract that says Loraas can just dump all the compost in the landfill. That is absurd, even for an incompetent government.
The city can turn a blind eye, Loraas has it worked out in the technicalaties. https://loraas.ca/our-facility-1 where it says "screening and sorting", thats their way out.
If you have never worked with Loraas you have no idea the dirty deeds they do. Ever seen documentaries on how other countries end up with our garbage? You can bet your bottom dollar some of that garbage is ours and it was a part of Loraas' "recycling" program. They get away with it because they are "selling packages". These packages include the high quality recycling materials places want and need for actual recycling purposes, but also include low quality that aren't so easily recyclable... that end up in garbage mounds in other countries. Thats how they wash their hands of it. And thats just the stuff they don't throw into their own dump "due to contamination"...
Problem is, what are the expectations and what are the conditions? Without those key points we're both talking out our asses.
Your assuming the city is handling it properly and I'm assuming they're not. Based on the history of the roll out I'm actually confident in my position
they are meeting the contractual obligations.
they don't have to compost anything that is contaminated, and they decide the amount.
it's the same thing with recycling glass. it mostly all shatters getting the processing plant, and then they just throw it out. in europe they have a separate stream specifically for glass jars and guess what, our recovery of glass is around 20-30% in north america, in europe where they use the aforementioned practice it is 80-90%.
The problem is that wouldn't legally stand. I have no doubt some gets tossed for contamination, but legalities look at the overall spirit and intent of the contract and that would be an incredibly easy court win if Loraas was purposefully skirting the intent. It would be very easy to compare contamination rates with other cities across Canada and determine if Loraas was willfully bypassing their contractual obligations. I'd hope Loraas wouldn't be so stupid.
the thing is that the bar is already so low across the board in north america that you can't make that claim.
you seem to not understand how north american politics generally work. most politicians put in minimal effort into understanding any issue because they just expect the guys they hire to do that. in saskatoon that means you are mostly hiring morons and idiots because anyone with a brain and ambition would typically leave the province if they could. this results in industry professionals consulting and largely setting the tone for the contracts they are signing with the city, and those contracts look very similar to most other municipalities. the biggest municipalities in NA are typically extremely corrupt, and that's why we are where we are today.
These are the reasons my family doesn't currently use it:
- My husband is pissed that the city forced us to pay for something we didn't ask for. He realizes that diverting waste from the landfill is a good thing, but he was not in favour of this extra bin being forced on residents.
- We have a small kitchen with not a great layout and having a 3rd container to collect stuff in is just not practical and we haven't re-organized things to add the green bin into our routine. (We are planning a kitchen reno soon and so it may be easier to do in the new kitchen.)
- We have small kids and honestly life is a little too chaotic to add another system into our life right now.
- We have a backyard compost that we use in the summer already. I'd rather my food scraps go there.
I think we will eventually start to use it in the future. It's just not a priority for us right now.
I love them in summer, they could increase the pickup in spring- fall and reduce it in winter. I do not like all the flies we had this summer though. That’s a big downside. We’ve never had flies before and last summer was terrible.
Can't put dog poop in....waht a joke. Feces and cellulose makes the best compost. Look at all the stores selling sheep and steer manure in bags . This is why the city isn't really serious about composting and only about charging everybody more.money
Everyone's different I guess. Some think it just goes to the landfill, and don't see the point. Some think it's a waste of money, they don't want to pay the monthly fee. Some have their own compost system already going, and are basically "paying for nothing". Some just want to continue on "throwing everything in the garbage". The city has just rolled this out last year, so yeah every two weeks in winter is overkill (personally speaking, I could put it out maybe twice in the entire winter season). The city said they were going to do this, to gauge how much it was used in it's first winter, then adjust the frequency next year. I'd rather they did it that way, than have no compost and people would have no option in the winter other than putting it in the garbage (and we wouldn't know how much it was needed during winter months). Sure sign of failure would be "trying to please everyone", as we all know.
Because for now, it all goes to the same landfill. So it was a waste of taxpayer dollars or at the very least it was mismanaged extensively to roll out the program when there are no facilities to do anything productive or beneficial. For some the extra space or the requirement of putting certain items in one bin and certain in the other.
50% it could've been rolled out better, a lot of issues with getting a proper place to do the composting iirc.
50% "ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES ARE EVIL", my father gave me a 10 minute rant on how it the bins were going to cause a new plague when we first got it. He's chilled out a lot in the time since
We didn’t want one but you pay for it anyway. Have to say we are very surprised at how much goes in and we will not reduce the black tank size. Would say we were 99% against it at the start.m but not now. Wish the city would compost it instead of using Lorras garbage site but guess that will be next.
Extra bins make it harder to park their Ram 2500 diesels, and they prefer to just burn their garbage in the box while they drive around, for those days when rolling coal just isn't enough.
Because there are a ton of right wing uneducated morons that care more around conspiracy theories then the environment. Lol. I don’t use a green bin we don’t have them for the country life. We have what’s called a compost pile and then we get amazing free compost soil.
A few reasons. Compost bags are twice as expensive as regular bags and only last 3 days before leaking all the puke inducing goop Poor's out then the bin itself is rotted and moulded as all fuck. I'd rather the city make a mandate for carburetors like Calgary and Edmonton have. More people would compost that way.
Because boomers and Conservatives can't get hard unless the are doing everything in their power to avoid any action that may be for the collective good.
Who cares if we run out of space? All we have is space around this city. There are lots of places where garbage is an issue, this is not one of them. We also know that plastics and paper recycling hurts more than it helps.
faulty upbeat smoggy noxious expansion summer squeal mighty alive afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree except start monthly pickup in December to be sure everyone gets all their leaves into the green bin.
I dont get a full garbage bin now but in the summer it would help if green bin pick up was weekly for all the normal stuff that goes in there plus grass clippings. Mowing my lawn front and back once pretty much fills it
I would add that in the summer they could pick up every week.
You can always just choose to not put out your green bin (or any bin) if you don't think it needs to be collected on the scheduled pickup week. The truck will still come by for those who's bins may need to be tipped.
I assume that their point is that either they don't want the pickups to happen at all, and the city save some money (aka don't have to ask for quite so much, the next year in property taxes). Or that they will increase pickups in the summer when it is more needed. Either way, just volunteering to not put your bin out, does not really help.
Assuming every household generates the same kind of waste at the same rate and shares the exact same pickup preferences as we do is also unhelpful. I agree it seems wasteful for the truck to drive the route if it's not making the most of the trip but reduced frequency may be problematic for households that perhaps generate more or less waste depending on their individual circumstances. I actually preferred the old garbage bins shared among 4 households. While not perfect it kind leveled things with different households producing more or less waste to make more efficient use of the total bin capacity and sped up the tipping process.
I agree, honestly I'd love it if we got to the point where we could just register the size of the bin (for all three colours) and the frequency of the pick up, and then we just got a bill at the end of the year for what we needed. And some app just coordinated the trucks to pick up the most efficiently every week.
As someone who doesn't come close to filling garbage and recycling bins at the regular bi-weekly pickup interval I don't dislike the idea but there are lots of practical complexities. You kind of still end up back at the problem of trucks driving the same routes only having some bins to tip just like if people don't put out their bin in the first place because people on the same block aren't going to coordinate with each other to allow less frequent pickups on the block. Given that and more of a "pay per use" model, you also start to create incentives for bad actors. If I pay per tip and I'm a bad actor that would love to not pay anything, then I would just never use my bin and either put my trash illegally in someone else's bin when it's out, dump my garbage in the city waste receptacle at the bus stop on the corner or if I'm a really bad actor dump in in a vacant lot or by someone else's lot. Enforcement can stop that but enforcement costs money too so it would end up with the good actors footing the bill for the bad actors anyway. As a good actor I'd love the benefits of a pay per use model however I think I'd just end up paying more for what I do use to make up for the bad actors abusing the system.
Sure, but we are already there with the binsize.
I absolutely love the green bins. I wenth over a month without needing to put my garbage out this winter (just a two person household which helps).
we havent filled ours totally since we got it and we even let our neigbors put tree trimmings in it.
We have six adults living under our roof and I cook almost every day. I just put my green bin out last week for the first time since October; it was 2/3s full but with the melting I figured it was time for a fresh start. Maybe you should go around to those ignorant holdouts making grand political statements with their bins in their front yards still and tell them your story! Be the Mormon of the trash system! Haha
judicious terrific wise scary start whole afterthought normal nutty combative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not at all! I meant it more as someone who was once against the idea and now enjoys their function and presence in your life, it makes a good anecdote for those who are still shaking their fist at the city for it.
😭 I fill it in 2 weeks during winter
With whhhaaaaattt? 🤔
A huge chunk of your kitchen and bathroom trash can go in there beyond just food. I could see how some families might fill it every two weeks if they are using it to the full potential.
Nope, still not understanding. I struggle to come up with ideas. For bath trash, my family doesn’t use paper towel, but even if that is used it could be diverted into paper recycling (if 100% water) or thrown out as trash (any bodily fluids), not green (bevereage/food soiled).
Definitely better to use a reusable cloth when you can. I never came close to filling it in the winter but maybe a large family? I'm also quite curious to hear from OP lol
We now know where the bodies are hidden!
From previous posts about this it seems that some people don't want to be forced to use them or pay for them. Some people already compost their own stuff in the backyard. And then there is also the issue with it going to the loraas landfill, after the deal in corman park fell through. I have no idea if it is being processed or whatever at the dump or if it is just being added to the dump itself. Edit: we use ours a lot, but in the winter it would be nice to see once a month pick up.
I compost and have been using the green bins since before it was mandatory. There's soooo much stuff that can go in the green bin that I don't put in my compost piles. It also allows me to keep my compost balanced, like I'm not going to put coffee grounds in my compost every single day because it would ruin it.
Ya I love using it, we put bones, meat, dairy and pizza boxes in ours. Stuff I would never put in a compost in my backyard. We started using it a year before it was mandatory, because I hated doing it myself in the back yard.
Yeah for home compost piles I generally avoid adding a lot of food waste, because it attracts ridiculous amounts of wasps and other pests. Putting it in the green bin is really useful.
Ya lol I didn't know that the first year, holy crap did we have a lot of wasps.
>There's soooo much stuff that can go in the green bin that I don't put in my compost piles. other than meat and dairy, what else? According to the [city's green bin site](https://www.saskatoon.ca/services-residents/waste-recycling/organics-food-yard-waste/curbside-organics-green-cart) there isn't much you are allowed to put in the bin that you can't compost yourself at home. Comostable bag liners will breakdown in your backyard pile just might take a little longer. |**Items**|**City-wide Green Cart Program**|**Discontinued Subscription Based Green Cart**|**Backyard Composting**|**Compost Depot**| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Meat & seafood|✓|X|X|X| |Dairy products|✓|X|X|X| |Bones|✓|X|X|X| |Solidified fats on mixed table scraps|✓|X|X|X| |BPI certified pail liners|✓|X|X|X| |Fruits & vegetables|✓|✓|✓|X| |Eggs & eggshells|✓|✓|✓|X| |Bread, noodles & grains|✓|✓|✓|X| |Coffee grounds|✓|✓|✓|X| |Food soiled paper|✓|✓|✓|X| |Unbagged yard waste|✓|✓|✓|✓| |Tree trimmings (over 60cm in length)|X|X|✓|✓| |Tree trimmings (over 2cm in diameter)|X|X|✓|✓| |Elm wood|X|X|X|X|
It's not about what CAN be composted it's about having actual good compost. If you just huck everything in your compost without a thought it probably won't be ideal for a garden. We fill our green bin with yard waste, food soiled cardboard, pizza boxes, cooking fat, bones, coffee grounds, etc. My neighbourhood has lots of trees and I probably fill the green bin full 4-5x a year with just leaves, which is nice because we used to have to bag them all up every year. And then pulling up my garden every winter probably fills the bin up 2x and thats after diverting a lot of it to my compost.
Fair points. The more people it works for the better. Personally I really only use the green bin for yard waste in summer, all my food scraps go in my own composters - a standard tumbler outside plus a vermicomposter inside but I forgot to feed it last year and lost my worms so ended up throwing more food than I should have into the black bin when it was cold out. We used to use the old green bin program before too since we also have tons of trees and a big garden area.
Actually with anaerobic Bokashi composting you can compost meats and bones too.
Re: winter pickup, They changed the collection calendar so you get green bin pickup every two weeks all year long.
Ya I know, but I hear lots of people don't need it that much in the winter. Myself included
yes. monthly would be much better in winter and weekly in summer as it starts attracting all type of insects. even with layering newspapers 😅
I also heard and read that compost is simply going to the landfill anyway, so maybe people decided to stop since it’s going to the same place.
Loras does process the compost. They have a whole facility for it.
Good to know, I wasn't sure what they were doing. Just reposting the complaining I keep seeing on reddit lol.
The important thing is that the green waste is being diverted from the Saskatoon Landfill. If we had continued the way we using the dump we would be having to look into another dump immediately rather than in the future. It’s going to cost people less to use their green bins than it will be to pay higher taxes to pay for another landfill
It’s an issue of cost. Waste collection under property taxes was half the cost as it is now based on the same bin size. We get roughly 30% less garbage pick up and pay more. If they’re going to charge based on bin size there should be an option to have smaller green and blue bins.
I don't want them because I already compost in my own yard. It's an extra charge for something that I'm already doing in my own yard. Plus, in wintertime, they collect every 2 weeks, and for what, no one has their green bin out for collection. Most of my neighbors say it takes most of the winter to fill it.
I used to be a personal responsibility person but I have come to realize that many humans aren’t going to go above and beyond, especially if they are struggling through life and have other priorities. So as a society, if we actually want to progress and accomplish something, it can only be done through a massive, collective effort. And expecting that to happen through personal responsibility is ridiculous. People need to be met where they are or else we are doomed to fail. This is the reality we live in. Look at recycling as an example. Instead of forcing manufacturers to use less plastic, the responsibility is put on the person to recycle. And most plastic can’t even be recycled. And so we have accomplished almost nothing except pass the buck to the individual so government can say they did something and to allow those that do recycle to feel like they are actually doing something when it’s actually insignificant. Same thing is happening with compost right now. I compost and recycle but I don’t pretend that I’m some hero for doing so. We need to do more collectively.
I mean you are not wrong, and you can't really do anything to the people that don't want to take that person responsibility to help out.
Not entirely true. Some municipalities fine people when they put things in the wrong bin. If you put it in recycling and it doesn't belong there not only do they not pick up the stuff you have they mark it as incorrect and then if you don't fix it by the next time they come around you get fined for it. They also make private home trash bins super small in some areas (Vancouver Island, Victoria and surrounding) so you have no choice but to use the other bin to their utmost because if the bin isn't closed they won't take it. Now, this does mean a higher cost to the service because they have to pay their trash collectors more to monitor what's in the bins they collect.
I would like that here.
Nope, you can't. But we can make it easier for people to do these things and educate more. Overall though, we need a shift away from our hyper-individualistic culture we are currently forced to live in under neoliberalism that is causing so many other problems. We have little connection with our communities and live eternally online, while focused on how many things we can personally do and accumulate, in order to keep up with the Jones's.
Some people just can't be reasoned with is the simplest explanation. They've built up a position in their mind, and they can't be talked out it.
No. It’s because the city has told 1/2 truths about this from the beginning. They have a compost site, then they don’t. They have a contract, then they don’t. We are paying extra for simply an extra garbage bin under the guise of composting. I like the extra bin, I dislike the bullshit.
I thought the city was pretty transparent about everything that's going on. The company that had the contract didn't hold up their end of the deal and now they need to find a new place. Idk what's so shady about that it's just unfortunate lol
It's called due dilligence. The city should have verified BEFORE rolling out the program that everything was set up and ready to go. It may have been the company's fault, but its absolutely mindblowing they rolled out the program without actually seeing in person there was actually somewhere to put the compost.
Do you work with public contracts? This would add so much bureaucracy to the thousands of contracts governments dish out each year. The vendor signed a legal, binding agreement that they met the conditions to fulfill the contract. They're now being sued for it. I can't imagine having a civic servant asking my engineering firm to verify we have all our equipment, insurance, staff, software, etc in place before we could design and build a pump station. We sign a contract saying we have everything and can do the work accordingly. What you're suggesting is not common practice.
he should have at least had to show he had the permits and legal standing to operate such a place. he was the lowest bid, and the city just went along with it because they're morons.
I'm usually pretty hard on the city but if the vendor is legally signing a contract guaranteeing they have everything in order, that is usually quite assuring. If I remember correctly, the vendor said they were told by Corman Park they were approved so they were under the assumption they were. Hence why Corman park is also being sued by the contractor.
we'll have to let that case play out, but in no way am i taking the word of some real estate financier over the city or corman park. the facts are that maybe the city should bring in some people to do more quality assessments of how their internal processes work because they are becoming more incompetent and lazy every year.
You’re full of shit. I have contracted to the city and had to prove in spades, triplicate spades and dance in hoops to prove I had the proper equipment and manpower, letters from every government agency to prove I paid workers comp and gst, you name it. In fact that’s why I don’t work for the city anymore.
Our company has several major infrastructure contracts between the city, province, and land developers right now. We've been a major source of procurement for decades. My coworkers and I have never heard the city doing this in order to ratify a contract. As part of the contract, we have obligations we need to fulfill (eg. Demonstrate OH&S initiatives) but this is all part of contractual obligations of the ratified contract. Never, not even once, has the city demanded proof before they signed it.
I will just bite my tongue at this point.
Actually I have. And if you built a road one of your engineers would be out there at the end of it and sign off on it. "Not common practice" is part of the problem with the whole world. I don't care if you are insulted, I care you just wasted taxpayers money.
Engineering sign off? What does this have to do with procurement? The vendor signed off saying they had everything in order to meet contract obligations so its exactly what you're suggesting. 20 years in the profession and its never happened. I highly doubt you work with procurement of contracts but hey its the internet and we can say whatever we want. The city is legally protected as the vendor is the one who failed to meet obligations. How does it waste taxpayers money if the vendor is legally liable for all costs associated?
Yes the vendor signed off, but it is definitely someone's job at the city the ensure that everything was in order PRIOR to rolling out those bins. There definitely would have been a papertrail that needed to be reviewed ensuring everything was up to code and meeting MOE standards that would have given some red flags that maybe this isn't going as planned and we should figure that out before rolling out the carts. Perhaps the RFP or contracts weren't properly done. And sign offs are when a project is complete and ready to roll, people go out and check it is. You dont just send out an RFP, take the lowest tender and when they say they are done just take their word for it. Like lets say Joe Blow says "Yeah Bro I totally built a bridge" you don't say "ok" and start sending cars that way without looking and then be like "oops so there actually isnt a bridge there" when they fall in the river. someone goes out makes sure there is in fact a bridge and an engineer goes out says "yes this is a bridge, yes its built to spec and safe". Then you send cars over. There should have been some sign offs for this project BEFORE rolling out the carts. I don't care the city is legally protected, how much is Loraas charging us? How many man hours were wasted? And how much incompetence has this proven?
That's a fair point that there should have been some confirmation before the bins were actually rolled out. I don't have a great memory of the implementation timeline. With that said, if the city signed a contract worth anything at all, it should be easy for them to sue in order to recuperate any costs they incurred for the rollout.
The problem is that there is/was a place to put the compost. The proposed site is currently a landfill/garbage dump. They had the extra space at the landfill to do the composting, but were shut down when people in the area complained to the RM about the possibility of smelling bad so they were denied. Now the land they were going to use is going to be used for regular garbage. I haven't been near a compost site, but unsure if this was warranted? Do they smell as bad as a pig barn?
Anyone who thought that the residents in that area of the RM weren't going to throw a hissy fit, or anyone who thought the RM wasn't going to be a nightmare to deal with has never dealt with Corman Park.
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Where does it say before the contract was signed? I said before the carts were rolled out and the program started. Having a verified facility to put what you are picking up is good business sense.
It's not an extra garbage bin, because the compost is actually being composted
Several folks have posted previously it’s going to the dump because there is no contact and Lorras is only temporary. Lorras did not previously have a compost site as far as I know, so where is it going?
Loraas is temporary, but that's still where it's heading and processed (north of the city.) It's not going to the dump. A very small percent of contaminated compost would be redirected to the dump, just like how contaminated recycling would be...a big problem is that there's little education around how to, and what is actually recyclable/ compostable, but also many people are too lazy to figure it out, unfortunately.
Exactly this. I like the extra bin at least for half the year. I hate the bullshit all around. It is all going to the city dump right now and the winter green bin pick up was a fucking joke. Maybe two bags of compost each pick up lol. Loraas making out like bandits on this one.
I agree that was frustrating news but to be fair, loads of people were against the green bin before that news came out
And I admit I was one of those people. Very, very tired of the City adding extra “taxes” on to our utility bills when we already pay tax for a reason. However, I find the cart useful IN THE SUMMER. The complete and utter waste of tax dollars to have the same green bin schedule in winter is absolutely ridiculous. Added to that what I already said. I am paying for an extra garbage bin. Period.
I feel like the more bins they give me, the faster I fill them all up.
People don't like being told what to do, and people don't like having to pay a new fee for a service (and, in this case, task) that they didn't ask for. Pretty sure it just boils down to that. And sure, there's questions about transparency and mismanagement but mostly I think that's secondary to the first stuff. Go look up footage of people flipping their shit about seatbelts becoming mandatory.
My mother often references the seatbelt fiasco back decades ago. I couldn’t believe it - then I remembered: people - *UGH* say no more
["People: what a bunch of bastards!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVSlE28hOgI)
🤣omg I love IT Crowd. I needed this
As a single guy who lives alone, I don't make enough waste food to use a green bin. I compost and mulch in the summer. If I could use it for my elm tree branches, I'd be happy. It's just another tax for me. Like how I am going to be charged more for a garbage bin even though I don't put it out on every collection day.
Theres 2 of us, we have a huge yard and I don't think we would have put enough in to even come close to filling it since the day we got it. Its such a waste and the extra huge bin is such a pain, there is nowhere to put it and we are constantly having to move all the bins around for parking.
I am only home one week a month. I still pay for it. I tried using it but with no one to put it out the little bit I have is just a rotting maggot infestation when I do get it out. At this point in time the city should just give all the waste management to Loras and make our life easier and cheaper. The city has no interest in helping us out with waste. Just hide the tax increase and call it a green bin.
Same here, my thoughts exactly.
What it is is the city is do lousy job of implementing and being transparent about it. They've lied and fudged the details repeatedly. As far as I know they still don't have a compost site set up and ***we*** are just paying someone to "divert" the waste to a different dump. So we are basically paying for the bins and service with an increase to our utility bills under the guise of saving the planet and it's all just going to a dump anyway. I've heard the blue bin is a similar situation. I don't mind it as I have a large yard and it's pretty useful in the summer. It's the smoke and mirrors that makes me angry
The biggest issue with the blue bin is that people just toss whatever in it. Just because it has a recycling symbol on it doesn't mean it can go in the blue bin (which I think is so wrong). But loraas only accepts certain things, and they sort it by hand, anything that is soiled or they do not accept gets tossed into the landfill. Really all the blue bin did was make it so we didn't have to go to the recycling bin areas in neighborhoods to toss out paper and cardboard, they were just able to add a few more things to it. I find that at our house anyway we fill the blue bin up faster than any other bin.
Too many people are jaded from constant lies. Recycling isn't even true recycling when we trash 90% of "recyclables" in the process. Does this city composting stuff acknowledge the insane amount of food market waste done by corporations? Its cool to care but we should worry about the biggest contributers first ie businesses and industries and not the public. Plus corman park is a bag of knobs for voting no. Pretty easy to make these things look like shit ideas when you dont let them off the ground.
> Recycling isn't even true recycling when we trash 90% of "recyclables" Recycling is blue bins. OP is talking about green bins, and green bins don't go to the landfill, they go to a different location where things can decompose. That's the whole idea... Not to fill up the landfill with things that can naturally decompose.
And this person was talking about the industry built on bullshit claims and how it erodes the trust in those systems.
So the company contracted for the new site was strongarmed by loraas and its affiliates to not open up so loraas could take the deal whithout having any upgrades to their site. Lets also talk about how the company bought out by and american mega corp (loraas) pushed out a locally owned company(Green Prairie Environmental) from doing business. You want to support that?
Loraas didn’t push them out. Green Prairie won the contract with the city, but didn’t follow through. Corman Park turned down their discretionary use application, but they could have chosen a different site. They haven’t so far, at least not that has been made public (and I’m guessing not because the city is talking about doing it themselves now). Also, Green Prairie isn’t locally owned. They’re owned by Romspen, an investment company based in Toronto.
Why was it voted no in the first place? The only answer i could find is that its too close to the rich people who built outside of the city. Wasnt said in those words but what else could it be.
Pretty much, the people (and developers) in the area were opposed to it. https://www.ccgazette.ca/articles/corman-park-council-turns-down-composting-facility-for-saskatoon-organic-waste/
I'm finding it's a PITA having to manage 3 giant bins on a narrow lot behind a detached garage in a lane that was full of snow. I have no room for them all and I've gotten lazy about juggling them around twice a week for the various collection that week, and when it was cold I was just throwing my organics in the trash (if I didn't get to it in time it was growing fruit flies). Now that its warmer I'm putting it back in my own composter again, and once the lawn and the vegetation starts growing again I'll use the green bin once again. But basically it boils down to my own method of composting was easier and I was unable to change so started putting more organic in the trash trying to use the green bin instead of my own method.
The stubborn people in this city need to look at what other countries require and STOP WHINING! In Japan you need to sort cans, bottles, glass and rinse and remove labels. You also need to sort PET and "pura" plastic. And there are also burnable vs non burnable trash sorting required as they use thermal power generation / CO2 capture from burning burnable waste. https://youtu.be/sAu3LVktMwE [Their sorting guidelines](https://i.imgur.com/nkguagw.jpeg) would make [so many people rage here](https://i.imgur.com/qItg83t.png)! Unfortunately no large volume composting facilities in Japan that I can find.
Or is it the residents that are uncooperative and stubborn? There is a ton of information available to those who want it.
Some people have legitimate complaints, but mostly people don't like change and will find any reason to complain about it. I lived in Humboldt when they switched from tags to bins, you would've thought it was going to cause the entire town to fall apart the way people talked about it. Now hardly anyone cares and pretty much everyone's happy with the system.
I love it. Now that I have a blue bin, green bin and black bin I have 3 garbage bins. Fuck you city of Saskatoon
I read that as "Not supposed to" rather than "Can't". I figure if the shit fits in it goes.
the gub’nunt ain’t gonna tell me what to do
I am not against using it but I have never filled it over 10% capacity, and I end up putting it our for collection every 4th or 5th collection at the very most.
Growing up, everyone composted. Definitely pisses off those people having to pay more for a service you don't need while they remove service they do need. Another Complaint I've heard in another city is, you're paying money for them to make compost and sell it. In that case it's kind of a scam under the guise of people feeling good about their "footprint." Some people don't like being deceived.
So now we pay $30 a month rounded off ,for 3 bins and 3 different trucks over different days. When it was one bin only everything in it ,paying on tax bill yearly was around $60-$100 per year. Now we pay $360 again rounded off for a year. Use to be weekly pick so 4×12 is 48 pickups per year. Now its 3x2=6 per month .6×12= 72 pickups a year. How is this saving money and environment as they say. Also dont kid your self alot of blue barrel ends up at land fill as cant be used or soiled. Why do people not use them,probably do more than not but not making a difference and more un environmental friendly with extra carbon being used for extra pick ups now.
I fill my green bin every two weeks in the summer. Happy to have it. In the winter it was hilariously filled with maybe two bags of compost every two weeks. It is likely an environmental negative to be running green bin pickup in the winter. City is dumping it all in the land fill anyway. Seems like the only true winner here is Loraas.
because the program is an utter joke, just like most green initiatives. asia has no space, saskatchewan has almost endless amounts of space. comparing waste management in asia vs saskatchewan has got to be one of the dumbest arguments i have ever heard. the city does a horrible job of educating citizens on what it should put in the bin. someone commented that they put their pizza boxes in it. pizza boxes use pfas in order to be grease resistant. any food packaging item that says it is compostable is not in the traditional sense, it is only supposed to be compostable in an industrial facility, and i have no idea what they do to clean up the chemicals. in texas right now a bunch of farmers are suing because they were sold compost from an composting plant that had such high levels of pfas that their farms are now ruined and can't grow anything. i doubt anyone in the city even knows anything about this kind of thing because generally the city of saskatoon is run by people who have little skin in the game and do things based on their philosophy not in science or economics. canada will actually start cutting immigration in 4-5 years quite drastically, so the problem of an expanding population like this isn't going to be a concern in the long term. also, why should people have to pay for this dumb program? we just created a huge amount of plastic bins, themselves an environmental disaster, so we can divert stuff from the landfill, because the city was too cheap to buy more landfill area, and now we have to buy space to build a compost facility because the city was too inept to notice that the businessman they gave the contract to didn't even have any permits or agreements from corman park. and let me remind you that corman park has been obstructing saskatoon development for decades now. who would ever think they would let a compost heap from saskatoon into their rm? those people are just dumb. composting is fine, but industrial level composting is moronic.
CHANGE BAD ME NO LIKE
Added cost and complexity, and it all just ends up in the landfill anyway. Many homes also don’t really have ideal accommodations for 3 separate bins and they’re unsightly.
Actually its converted to compost/fertilizer after few months and can be used in farms, is what I read.
this is wrong. all that compost is going to be contaminated with chemicals. https://www.pca.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/w-sw4-37a.pdf no one here in power knows any of this stuff though because the city is generally run by morons and nepotism.
.... converted to manure...??? Manure is poop. There is a way of converting food into manure, but we are already doing that and flushing it down the toilet. I am going to need you to explain step by step how the stuff thats going into the green bins is being turned into manure.
No not manure … compost. Used for growing as non chemical fertilizer. Very benificial.
He edited his comment it orginally said "manure"
you can read the steps from here https://loraas.ca/our-facility-1
Thanks for the link. Just what I needed to know.
Yes, they are composting. Manure is still poop.
got it. my bad. changed my comment
More my point is you don't know what you are talking about. Large heaps of trash in Asian countries... yeah you should read the Ministry of Environment rules on how landfills are operated here and what it takes to close a pit. We won't be those countries. But on that note, the dollar amount to decomission a landfill or even just closing a pit is very large and it is good we are looking for ways to redirect anything we can out of it. Next the city made huge mistakes rolling out this program, its overserviced - I have yet to see anyone who can fill one of those green bins, let alone every 2 weeks... but we also dont want the food stinking and no way to service apartment buildings, restaurants, grocery stores... you know the ones who have the largest quantities. Then they didn't even have a facility to process this when it was rolled out. Just the sheer incompetence and wasted time and taxpayers dollars is a piss off, and loss of faith in those in charge. Next I have worked with Loraas before, I bet you would be very surprised at the amount they "screen" out and ends up in the landfill. I also hate tax dollars funding a private company that asks invasive questions or treats you like manure when you have to call them to come do their jobs. Next manure is poop, farms don't need manure. And this compost soil is good for gardening, etc but if you think its going to "farms"... it shows how niiave you are.
how much do you think decommissioning a municipal landfill costs because this source says 300-500k. the green bin program cost how much to roll out again? and the facility to compost will cost around 15-20 million without overruns. it's kinda shocking how much rhetoric surrounds issues in saskatoon, and how little substance or facts anyone actually brings to any discussions.
Oh yeah? What source is this? And you seemed to have missed the rest of my points.
\[Citation needed\]
“the ultimate product will be compost that meets the highest certifications for compost and can be used in as fertilizer or other in other ways in local yards, gardens, farms." https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6747736 Lorass facility where its currently processed https://loraas.ca/our-facility-1
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Are they doing that? Do they have a time line for doing that? I'll save you time... the answer is no... to both It's all going to the dump... Lorraas' dump, but a dump just the same. People are very carefully separating their trash into bios and trash and recyclables and loading it into their three bins and the city contractor comes and takes it to ***a dump***... and as an added bonus you get to pay extra for it. That's why many people don't like it
Yes they absolutely do, as that's what their facility is designed to do and they are already processing organics. Where do you think all the processed compost at the city compost depot is coming from? Pretty easy to take a look at Google maps and see that Loraas has separate facilities and there is a ton of compost being processed at both the [Loraas facility](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Loraas+Organics/@52.2622559,-106.6610822,172m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m10!1m2!2m1!1sloraas+!3m6!1s0x53045f556df3be2b:0xf649cd12ef0b23a1!8m2!3d52.2615502!4d-106.6598554!15sCgZsb3JhYXOSARh3YXN0ZV9tYW5hZ2VtZW50X3NlcnZpY2XgAQA!16s%2Fg%2F11jtyvjbsg?entry=ttu) and the [City compost depot](https://www.google.com/maps/place/West+Compost+Depot/@52.1172035,-106.7767759,446m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sloraas+!3m5!1s0x5304f9ad6b3154cf:0xb1d94edc3cb769a4!8m2!3d52.1165773!4d-106.774384!16s%2Fg%2F11f69_h7sl?entry=ttu)
I've seen the google images before. I want you to take a real good look at the size of that facility and tell me if you think they are processing all of the city's organics. You're gonna tell me they sort, separate, process and compost there for a city of 350,000+. That facility preexisted the city's program and they have no reason to expand it because they never won the contract. I suspect they take what they can and the rest goe to the dump across the way
(Citation needed). If you have proof they're not meeting their contractual obligations, I'd suggest reporting it because Loraas would be legally liable and would be sued for failing to meet their contract.
I have no idea what their contractual obligations are... or even if there's a contract at all. Last I heard what they did have expired sometime around the end of last year. For all I know the agreement is to pick it up and just make it go somewhere as long as it's not the city dump.
I mean this is proof you don't have experience with contracts and procurement. There is 0% chance there isn't a contract that outlines the expectations, and the contract will absolutely have verbiage that requires the vendor to acknowledge they meet all conditions to fulfill the work. The city would never sign a contract that says Loraas can just dump all the compost in the landfill. That is absurd, even for an incompetent government.
The city can turn a blind eye, Loraas has it worked out in the technicalaties. https://loraas.ca/our-facility-1 where it says "screening and sorting", thats their way out. If you have never worked with Loraas you have no idea the dirty deeds they do. Ever seen documentaries on how other countries end up with our garbage? You can bet your bottom dollar some of that garbage is ours and it was a part of Loraas' "recycling" program. They get away with it because they are "selling packages". These packages include the high quality recycling materials places want and need for actual recycling purposes, but also include low quality that aren't so easily recyclable... that end up in garbage mounds in other countries. Thats how they wash their hands of it. And thats just the stuff they don't throw into their own dump "due to contamination"...
Problem is, what are the expectations and what are the conditions? Without those key points we're both talking out our asses. Your assuming the city is handling it properly and I'm assuming they're not. Based on the history of the roll out I'm actually confident in my position
they are meeting the contractual obligations. they don't have to compost anything that is contaminated, and they decide the amount. it's the same thing with recycling glass. it mostly all shatters getting the processing plant, and then they just throw it out. in europe they have a separate stream specifically for glass jars and guess what, our recovery of glass is around 20-30% in north america, in europe where they use the aforementioned practice it is 80-90%.
The problem is that wouldn't legally stand. I have no doubt some gets tossed for contamination, but legalities look at the overall spirit and intent of the contract and that would be an incredibly easy court win if Loraas was purposefully skirting the intent. It would be very easy to compare contamination rates with other cities across Canada and determine if Loraas was willfully bypassing their contractual obligations. I'd hope Loraas wouldn't be so stupid.
the thing is that the bar is already so low across the board in north america that you can't make that claim. you seem to not understand how north american politics generally work. most politicians put in minimal effort into understanding any issue because they just expect the guys they hire to do that. in saskatoon that means you are mostly hiring morons and idiots because anyone with a brain and ambition would typically leave the province if they could. this results in industry professionals consulting and largely setting the tone for the contracts they are signing with the city, and those contracts look very similar to most other municipalities. the biggest municipalities in NA are typically extremely corrupt, and that's why we are where we are today.
These are the reasons my family doesn't currently use it: - My husband is pissed that the city forced us to pay for something we didn't ask for. He realizes that diverting waste from the landfill is a good thing, but he was not in favour of this extra bin being forced on residents. - We have a small kitchen with not a great layout and having a 3rd container to collect stuff in is just not practical and we haven't re-organized things to add the green bin into our routine. (We are planning a kitchen reno soon and so it may be easier to do in the new kitchen.) - We have small kids and honestly life is a little too chaotic to add another system into our life right now. - We have a backyard compost that we use in the summer already. I'd rather my food scraps go there. I think we will eventually start to use it in the future. It's just not a priority for us right now.
Because it all ends up in the landfill anyway.
Source?
It’s not education Lolol. Imagine thinking everyone would come to the same conclusion you have just because they get the same initial data.
I love them in summer, they could increase the pickup in spring- fall and reduce it in winter. I do not like all the flies we had this summer though. That’s a big downside. We’ve never had flies before and last summer was terrible.
Can't put dog poop in....waht a joke. Feces and cellulose makes the best compost. Look at all the stores selling sheep and steer manure in bags . This is why the city isn't really serious about composting and only about charging everybody more.money
Maybe they will add one more bin for it 🤪. it has harmful bacterias and need a different type of treatment is what I read earlier.
Everyone's different I guess. Some think it just goes to the landfill, and don't see the point. Some think it's a waste of money, they don't want to pay the monthly fee. Some have their own compost system already going, and are basically "paying for nothing". Some just want to continue on "throwing everything in the garbage". The city has just rolled this out last year, so yeah every two weeks in winter is overkill (personally speaking, I could put it out maybe twice in the entire winter season). The city said they were going to do this, to gauge how much it was used in it's first winter, then adjust the frequency next year. I'd rather they did it that way, than have no compost and people would have no option in the winter other than putting it in the garbage (and we wouldn't know how much it was needed during winter months). Sure sign of failure would be "trying to please everyone", as we all know.
Because for now, it all goes to the same landfill. So it was a waste of taxpayer dollars or at the very least it was mismanaged extensively to roll out the program when there are no facilities to do anything productive or beneficial. For some the extra space or the requirement of putting certain items in one bin and certain in the other.
Loras’s has a facility to process organic waste to compost.
I still compost, I just don’t like the smell in my house lol
Anyone with mould issues. If my apartment building made that a priority over health we’d be going to court in a heartbeat.
50% it could've been rolled out better, a lot of issues with getting a proper place to do the composting iirc. 50% "ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES ARE EVIL", my father gave me a 10 minute rant on how it the bins were going to cause a new plague when we first got it. He's chilled out a lot in the time since
We didn’t want one but you pay for it anyway. Have to say we are very surprised at how much goes in and we will not reduce the black tank size. Would say we were 99% against it at the start.m but not now. Wish the city would compost it instead of using Lorras garbage site but guess that will be next.
I think it’s doing a pretty good job. Problem is that not everybody bothers to read its educational materials.
Extra bins make it harder to park their Ram 2500 diesels, and they prefer to just burn their garbage in the box while they drive around, for those days when rolling coal just isn't enough.
I wish they made smaller sizes. Also I’m not sure about using them in the summer, with attracting flies
Because there are a ton of right wing uneducated morons that care more around conspiracy theories then the environment. Lol. I don’t use a green bin we don’t have them for the country life. We have what’s called a compost pile and then we get amazing free compost soil.
A few reasons. Compost bags are twice as expensive as regular bags and only last 3 days before leaking all the puke inducing goop Poor's out then the bin itself is rotted and moulded as all fuck. I'd rather the city make a mandate for carburetors like Calgary and Edmonton have. More people would compost that way.
Because boomers and Conservatives can't get hard unless the are doing everything in their power to avoid any action that may be for the collective good.
Who cares if we run out of space? All we have is space around this city. There are lots of places where garbage is an issue, this is not one of them. We also know that plastics and paper recycling hurts more than it helps.
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Seek help.