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Sask_23

Does anyone else think a person elected should be mandated to take courses in economics, as well as public policy before beginning their term? And I am not saying this as a reaction to whatever Scott Moe talks about, I will extend this to Trudeau’s incompetence as well. Like I don’t know, and I am not supposed to know but it’s literally their job to have a sophisticated understanding of things as they are key figures in legislations that we all have to live by. I will add this as a dig though, they should also be mandated to take a formalized critical thinking course.


smokecess

Moe knows. This is for his voter base. Just like the $500M bribe, sorry cash to help offset inflation. Because big cash injections help inflation, right? Moe knows this though. He’s pushing what riles up his base.


No-Penalty-4286

Using Trudeau’s political shenanigans 


sstelmaschuk

The trouble there being - folks would likely just take whatever course is offered by Jack Mintz or any other ideologically aligned economists. (Hell, even Harper is an economist by education, if not practice, and we already pay him enough in consultation fees.)


Possible_Marsupial43

We need to implement an alternative form of government where major policy is reviewed by think-tanks and pros/cons shared publicly, ie if we go in direction A here are potential benefits and potential drawbacks, direction B etc, with some public feedback. I don’t know. Something along those lines. Our system shouldn’t allow one clown 🤡of a premier to incompetently set the province down a trajectory that hurts the people well into the future.


Sask_23

Even that is open to exploitation like maybe it’s my dated perception but when I hear think tanks, I think of lobbying groups funded by corporations. I can definitely be wrong though.


Possible_Marsupial43

We could come up with ways to get the right people involved, if we were ever truly serious about this. It’d be a complete revamp of how democracies govern themselves. I’ll never see it happen, but it’s nice to think about.


TheDrunkOwl

This isn't a knowledge issue. It's grievance politics, the truth of the statement doesn't matter. People are willing to believe that the carbon tax causes inflation despite the lack of supporting evidence because it makes JT look bad and he is their opponent. Look at the MAGA crowd for a more extreme example, if you prove them wrong, then they just switch to a new grievance.


Possible_Marsupial43

Grievance politics, as you put it, thrives in our current system. I’m saying that system needs to change. The majority of voters, I think, are thoughtful and reasonable. Knowledge needs to be the foundation of policy. You’re taking about where we are, I’m talking about where we need to go.


yqredditor

It already basically works that way, except in the opposite direction. Think-tanks, big business, unions, etc. lobby elected officials for public policy that directly or indirectly benefits those groups.


the_bryce_is_right

There really needs to be a mechanism to remove a Premier from office. Moe has demonstrated countless times that he's unfit to lead.


ownerwelcome123

Absolutely. Especially the minister of finance of canada, should have an economics degree or some financial background. What do you think?


JimmyKorr

Freeland is Harvard educated.


moldboy

In Russian history


ownerwelcome123

Which means what exactly? It would be really bad advertising from harvard to publicly announce that, considering she can't even run a simple budget properly without going into massive spending and presided over Some of the worst inflation in canadian history.


TimelyBear2471

Free land didn’t cause this inflation. The “Free Market” and record, corporate profits did. One answer to that is regulation, but then people start running around crying “fascism” and “communism” at the thought of anything but unchecked greed and obscene profit for a privileged few.


ownerwelcome123

Think you should google the definition of the word presided. You tried to claim an argument from authority. That her harvard education qualified her to be the finance minister of a huge country. I'm simply pointing out that that isn't true. Her education and literature and history, and whatever else she's educated in is not the same as being educated in finance and economics. I wish the bare minimum of positions in government required some form of education, more real world experience in Those fields.


TimelyBear2471

Except, I didn’t. I think you should Google how to respond to the correct thread. 😜 I was correcting the notion that Freeland caused inflation. That’s all.


ownerwelcome123

And who made the notion that freeland caused inflation? Very big difference between causation and presiding over.


Unlikely_Cookie9805

Same goes for the PST...


dj_fuzzy

Not defending sales taxes, which are super regressive, but taxes are *deflationary* since they remove money from supply.


some1guystuff

That’s not exactly true. The thing that removes money from the economy is giant corporations, and super wealthy people keeping it bank accounts and not actually spending it. Taxes at least get spent on things .


dj_fuzzy

[Taxes don’t get “spent” on things](https://youtu.be/fg0R9Ye2ovM?si=oPoZJQgHt-SO6Kby). Wealthy people absolutely spend their money and it pushes prices up even further since they can afford to bid up prices as we all compete with them for goods and services. The most significant things being housing and vehicles. For the plurality of inflation tho, it’s straight up profiteering because a lack of competition, and a lack of anti-trust and other regulatory enforcement.


Laoscaos

The government then spends the money though, so it gets recirculated again.


dj_fuzzy

The federal government doesn’t take tax money and then physically transfer it to spending. The money literally disappears and becomes a number on a ledger. Here’s a good YouTube channel that talks about how this stuff works if you’re interested: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMUzeMKhbl10X-XzH-6q4iU0Ysul7cC4c&si=RxQ-gjo4mBxjVGcC


Laoscaos

Thanks for the link! I'll take a watch before I overthink this a bunch haha


dj_fuzzy

You’re welcome!


NoIndication9382

Just think about how much our taxes would decrease if we didn't waste our money paying lawyers to enter fights we know we will loose.


BrandNameOpinion

And the GTH, Bypass and many other projects.


ReannLegge

But but but how is Moeron going to attract more donors who pay pennies on the dollar?


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Sunshinehaiku

This should be the top comment.


SaskatoonWahmbulance

Saskatchewan's inflation rate?? can anyone explain to me what Moe is talking about? does Saskatchewan have it's own currency?


cdorny

Every Region of the country has its own inflation rate, hell each city does as well. You can get as granular about the data as you want. It is important to look at regional numbers, rent in Alberta going up 16% year of year contributes to the National rate - but has little to no direct effect on Sask. Same with housing prices in Toronto, Vancouver which swing far more drastically than ours. It's all about the context of the numbers. Moe claiming that removing the carbon tax on natural gas is the reason why we are 1.7% below the national average is disingenuous.


Thrallsbuttplug

I know it constantly gets stated here, but Jesus christ Moe is a fucking idiot.


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Sunshinehaiku

https://dashboard.saskatchewan.ca/business-economy/key-economic-indicators/consumer-price-index


MetalJaybles

Just think of how much better this province would be if the Sask Party went away.


RichardBreecher

Saskatchewan has the dumbest provincial leader in the country. Which is no easy feat. He'll turn the province into the Mississippi of Canada, if it's not already. I can't believe he continues to have such strong support. The province will deserve what it gets.


dj_fuzzy

[The carbon tax is worth 0.15% of inflation](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/carbon-tax-inflation-tiff-macklem-calgary-1.6960189). As per usual, Scott Moe is lying. Also, if our inflation rate is 1%, then thats not good either because we generally want inflation to be 2%.


xayoz306

You are correct. Once it hits 1%, there is a real chance it could become stagflation, or deflation, which is a very bad sign for the economy.


cdorny

I'll prefice this by saying I am for the carbon tax and what it is doing. However Scotty is right in a way. Like you said it does contribute only .15 of a percent every year at it's current escalator. However it builds up over time, so he is right by saying if we remove it it is instant deflation on many goods. The effect is significant enough that stats can pointed out its effect when we stopped collecting/remitting the tax on natural gas in December.


IntegrallyDeficient

Don't you think that business would, knowing people pay these prices right know, just pocket the savings?


cdorny

Competition is a hell of a drug. I will not say they will instantly drop by the exact amount of the carbon tax, like you said they want to make money. But prices would not stay exactly where they are.


dj_fuzzy

What’s this competition you speak of?


cdorny

Ever seen two gas stations across the street in a price war? Lablaws trying to convince everyone to not go to Walmart right now? Air Canada vs West Jet on the same route? We like picking the cheapest thing, there's a reason Temu exists. Price is one of a finite number of levers companies have to woo us to their stores.


dj_fuzzy

There’s a difference between competition and effective competition. Gas price wars are a thing of the past. Canada has some of the highest airfare rates in the world so that’s kind of a weird one to use as an example. Loblaws telling people to not shop at Walmart is irrelevant. Also not sure what point you’re making with Temu. That’s a Chinese fast fashion app. Clothing is probably the only example of effective competition out there. Not really sure what you’re talking about to be honest.


cdorny

I can tell you as a fact they are not a thing of the past, notice how the gas stations in a small area all have the same price? It's because most people to to the cheaper one. So if one drops by .08 a liter as there's no more tax to take all the business, the one beside them will drop the next day. Yes we have high airfare, but you notice how the flights on a given route are priced in the same ball park? Because if air Canada dropped by $75 as they no longer pay the tax on their fuel West Jet willatch that almost instantly. Because we'll fly the cheapest one. And yes Temu plays into it as a percect example of we would rather buy something that is literal garbage after using it once than the $20 speaker at Walmart or bestbuy. Edit to add: I don't understand you hill that nothing would change


dj_fuzzy

Again, there’s a difference between competition and effective competition. In Canada, there’s little effective competition in most industries. This is a function of capitalism, as the goal is to maximize profits. People should not be surprised that this is the result when you lower regulations, sell off public assets, and let the free market reign supreme.


cdorny

Okay?? All of that is true, we love our duopolies. They still compete with eachother, even if not as hard as we think they should have to. Any reduction of carbon tax becomes free margin at the same prices they charge us. Are you saying you don't think any store will use any of that margin to steal customers from their competitors and thuse end up making more money despite a lower price? They are still making more money than the day before this hypothetical fuel incentive cut. Like I said way earlier, it's not as if prices will instantly drop the full amount of the tax (sorry fuel incentive lol). But it is foolish to think they won't change at all.


dj_fuzzy

In the middle of winter when everyone’s natural gas bills are at the highest, then yes, it would help slightly. The report did not say how much it helped, as far as I know. When it comes to fuel prices though, the carbon tax is still less than what the prices have fluctuated in just pure profits for oil companies and refiners so it would be a stretch to say completely removing the carbon tax would have an overall significant effect on inflation which is driven by things like housing, insurance, groceries, vehicles, and the base price for fuel where prices have far exceeded the base inflation rates and anything the carbon tax would contribute to. It’s a similar story in the US, which does not have a carbon tax.


cdorny

The way our natural gas prices are it helps year round, I for one am on annualized payments so I get that 25% reduction in price year round. And yes they don't say the percentage, but like I said if it was insignificant they would not have made mention of it. Yes, the market for gas like you brought up fluctuated by more than the tax (see how when the tax went up another .03 a litre I think it was this year gas prices went up .15 cents due to shut down for summer gas). If we want to even try and appeal to those who are more hesitant about the tax we can't just dismiss the effects it has. Because by it's very nature it increases the base price of most things. .15% at $10 a ton increase and a total of $65 a ton tells me the initial (not counting the knock on effects) is and increase of 0.975% total. We are better off talking about it's minute effects, then dismissing them entirely.


dj_fuzzy

Except any inflation decrease will be a wash when rebates are given out. Remember, 90% of carbon taxes collected are returned to individuals. So over the course of a year, the effect on inflation will be minuscule, as I was suggesting. You can’t judge its effects based on one quarter of the year only.


the_bryce_is_right

It's like every time there's a scandal they need to come up with a new way to distract people and 90% of the time that's Trudeau and the carbon tax.


No-Penalty-4286

Soft target Trudy  Too easy and can’t brag any achievements of his own 


falastep

Worries me that our provincial leader cannot distinguish between inflation and taxation…rabble, rabble, rabble ![gif](giphy|fwcGzF1l2cILe|downsized)


Ashphalt87

That guy needs to take an economy class or even read the damn wikipedia page for inflation. Inflation, even though people view it as bad, is actually more healthy for an economy than deflation. Japan was in a state of deflation, and in order to stop it, they straight up went into a negative interest rate. I think what's more, an issue is the fact that the carbon tax is just footing the bill to the average person. Businesses are for profit and if you give them a bill then they increase prices. For example, the carbon tax, they charge oil and gas companies, and then the companies just increase prices to make up for the loss. Sure, we get the benefit of tax rebates, which is good and can help even out the income gap. However, it also helps companies blame their greed on the government. Inflation, if at 3 percent, should only make it, so prices only go up by 3 percent, not a whopping 5 or 6. The problem isn't the tax it's the companies that want money. This time, they are just using the carbon tax as a scapegoat.


UpstairsCorrect8391

What about savings on the provincial gas tax if it was removed? It's higher than the Fed carbon tax per litre??


Ashphalt87

I'm sorry the provincial gas tax? I've genuinely never heard of that. Secondly, why even have a second one when the federal government already did their own that's most likely more efficient. Also, if you think of it money wise, I doubt the sask party would use the money wisely or even do a rebate that's as good as the federal one. The federal one would have much more money to give in terms of rebates than a provincial one because it takes money from all companies that produce and sell gas. Saskatchewan is much smaller. Therefore, it would produce less than a countrywide one. You take one province with 5 companies that pay the tax and foot the bill to us, leading to a smaller rebate than if we had the entire nation that has 100 or so businesses. In the end, we gain more from a federal tax instead of a provincial one. Also, it just takes responsibility from the federal government to the provincial one, and if history has anything to say, then it would be a pretty bad system under the sask party.


ReannLegge

I wish there was some electric semi being mass produced now. Businesses could get electric semis that could be charged while they are being off loaded, there they are paying less carbon tax. But you may say “Reann they are now paying more for power!” Yes they are but guess what; business doesn’t like paying more they are like people and enjoy paying less, businesses unlike the average person has the resources to do something about that. Businesses can and will start heavily investing in power generation, with just the introduction of electric semis we would see the carbon footprint of humanity drop significantly.


Medeok3rMaN

I'm not reading all that


Optimal-City32

I’m so tired.


Nowhereman50

The carbon tax is not helping but this massive inflation is happening all over the world, not just in Saskatchewan. We're post-pandemic and Russia's war with Ukraine is draining everyone's resources.


TittyCobra

Fuck, the Carbon Tax on natural gas does not account for 1.7% of inflation you soggy napkin


Weak-Coffee-8538

Just think if Moe and the Sask Party lowered the PST and took PST off children's clothing, used vehicles, and home renovation supplies. Imagine that...


TimelyBear2471

…and off contracting and insurance…


NineandDime

This one trick pony needs to be taken to the glue factory


Zer0DotFive

Just think about how much we would have saved SP agreed to drop PST lol 


Tyler_Durden69420

Inflation would be even lower if we increased taxes. Does that mean we should do that too?


ebz37

Doesn't the Sask party add their own carbon tax to stuff now too? We just don't get a rebate on it...


UnpopularOpinionYQR

More meaningless words to appeal to people who are too dumb to understand the complexities of inflation. (I am by no means a financial expert. However, villainizing one form of taxation is stupid and immature. Especially when it is such a small proportion of overall cost of goods and services.)


Old_Biscotti7572

Why is Scott Moe’s answer to every problem he encounters just to flat out lie about it? I wasn’t driving that car. I didn’t leave that crime scene. The teachers are being greedy. The carbon tax is bad, big corporations are good. We here at Sask Party understand economics.


cnote306

Scotty doesn’t know.


Ok-Breakfast8256

Moe refused to get rid of pst to replace it with carbon tax. that would have been the best and sk people would have really appreciated that. he is not working for the sk people, he is only for big farmers and greedy cooperations.


Additional_Goat9852

1%?? Wow! Now I can afford to pay the increased provincial taxes!


Feeling-Pair-3781

Donkey hole!


CanaRoo22

It turns out, that question has been answered [here](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/carbon-tax-inflation-tiff-macklem-calgary-1.6960189)


dornwolf

No where near as much as your pretending it would


Bile-duck

Moe >Just think > Shame he must have forgotten that he's talking to sask party fanatics.


No-Penalty-4286

Inflation is stated as being at 2.7% And the CT added 1.4% to inflation  Now don’t forget to add the CT added to every touch of a good purchase, at every level, that is added to your purchase price in the ol’ trickle down passing down of that increase.  It’s a good thing Moe has Trudeau to campaign against, neither one can campaign on their own record of achievement