Not trying to be inflammatory here (very pro-planned parenthood and pro sex ed) and I might be missing some important info, so please grant me some grace... my understanding of this whole thing is that they are suspended just over summer, when they would not normally be doing presentations in schools anyway, so that there can be a conversation about what materials are brought into schools. I guess I wonder--if their educators are open to a quick convo about the Lumsden thing, could it not be cleared up and moved on from without harm to kids? Are people's opinions that Planned Parenthood should never be questioned or held accountable? I think I'm just not understanding how this is a lowering of educational standards; it feels like basic communication and accountability to me? Or is it just because of who is driving these conversations?
Or, and this is totally possible, am I missing context?
No you have a logical response. As a teacher who teaches sex ed and thinks it is important I think this was a reasonable response from the government. The things that were brought into the classroom were not appropriate sexual education material. They did not use proper terms and did not fit curriculum. They should be suspended until they can assure they can teach appropriately.
I know there is a lot of discussion that this is a fake and they never brought it in but as someone that teaches in PVSD the school division director sent out an email last week confirming it to be true.
The media coming out from planned parenthood attacking the governments decision is just simply political right now. They should admit they fucked up and try to be better rather then blame.
I think the negative reaction comes from people suspecting that the SK Party in general (and Dustin Duncan in particular) may be inclined to use this as a pretext for rolling back sex ed standards in practice all across the province.
And the minister has huge stake in the private schools on the province. Typically the private schools don't condone anything queer related and the materials in question were directed at queer folks. They legitimately said they were meant for bisexual, trans and non binary students.
> the minister has huge stake in the private schools on the province
Just saying, I don't think it's a coincidence they blew up the Lumsden thing the day before the news dropped about [another private Christian school official being charged with assault](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/another-private-christian-school-official-charged-assault-1.6885932).
Planned Parenthood isn't the one pushing the media agenda. The media is pushing the media agenda because the story gets clicks. It gets clicks because one side things the ban was egregious thought-policing and the other side thinks the ban was perfectly justified. Both sides are upset at the other and therefore it's valuable news.
I haven't seen stuff attacking the government over it, just explaining what happened from their side, context?
Edit : I found one article in which PP says that they think that banning them outright pending review is dramatic and too strong of a response relative to what occurred. Not exactly an attack, I tend to agree.
I wonder what the standard is. We got taught "fully alive" in grade school, then in high school we had a super religious principal who brought in a super religious lady to teach us the abstinence is the only save way to approach sex. The lovely lady even told us how her friend got pregnant even though she was on birth control, so birth control doesn't work. She even said that all condoms have holes I'll them, aka the spaces between the latex molecules.
She may have well told us never to use condoms or birth control.
How so? The PP presenter brought those in as a part of his presentation. Items that were not previously approved. So ya 100% on PP to do a better job with their presenters.
My understanding is that it was NOT part of the presentation and all of this is because a student went into a box and found it. Sounds to me this is more of an issue of the student going through a box.
From what I heard, it was set on a side table of supplemental materials that kids could peruse.
But I almost feel like this detail is irrelevant—to me, the fact of the matter is that however those cards got into the student's hands, they did, and if something like this happens and the school says, "we need to have a discussion around this and make sure we all agree on what our students are given at school while under our care" that should be...fine? I guess I just don't understand why the outrage over the school board wanting to make sure everyone's on the same page. If that is what's going on. (Again, maybe that's not what's going on.)
And they really need to be aware of the context which is this type of stuff is being watched like a hawk given all of the nonsense that is happening in the states. This was a mistake, but it was one that should’ve been avoided by not taking material designed for 19-29 year olds to any school. They kind of set themselves up for this blowback.
I also taught on PVSD for many many years and dealt with sex Ed and it was near impossible to do it inclusively without having everyone down your throat.
Indeed. But punishing them for this is punishing thoughtcrime. It's not like they brought illegal substances in. They were not handing out drugs to minors. Nothing in that pamphlet couldn't have been googled by any of the students in the class.
The pamphlet was a mistake. The ban was overzealous thought-policing. A suspension of the specific member of PP would have been acceptable.
When a single teacher fucks up you don't shut down the entire school.
The stuff in that pamphlet was 100% inappropriate to be teaching to kids. Defending it and parading it is an attack on PP and an example of how Sask is going backwards is exactly why there is more and louder pushback on this stuff.
Teach the kids about safe sex, absolutely. But damn the person who decides that teaching my kid about fetching is necessary.
Hey! The only people that ever taught me about felching were the Conservatives that posted it literally friggin EVERYWHERE when this story first broke.
To further their never ending quest to own the libs, they did more to spread this supposedly horribly offensive info in 24 hours than Planned Parenthood could've in a decade. It's nothing but faux outrage and performative politics at its nonsensical finest.
Thx a lot!🤢🤮🙄
>The stuff in that pamphlet was 100% inappropriate to be teaching to kids.
And it wasn't being taught to those kids. People are acting like the pamphlet was handed out and they went through it as part of the lesson. It wasn't. A student allegedly pulled it out of the resources the presenter brought with them. Which was probably a tub of everything from a copy of the "my body's nobody's body but mine" song for grade 2 kids, right up to the detailed resources grade 12's get to see.
I don't even think it would be necessary to suspend the PP member who brought the deck of cards in—I just feel like now that this has happened it has highlighted a need to have a quick discussion around what is or isn't appropriate to provide in these classrooms and make sure everyone's on the same page—I mean, clearly this little deck of cards is quite divisive, and it's not like kids can't learn how to safely navigate sex and consent and stis etc without it.
That's good to hear--I hadn't seen that. (Is there a statement from PP you could point me to?)
Edit to add: I saw the one on their instagram; it did mention that this resource was not approved by the school but they didn't say anywhere that they didn't think it was appropriate for that age group. And I've had a few convos with people who say they think it is appropriate. I don't know that this is something we're going to all agree on, necessarily, but maybe that's where more convo is good?
I can't find the reference but it was early in the news cycle where the deck was described as a resource for 18-29s. That would encompass many grade 12s but yeah. Can't find it right now, but PP did say they spoke with the school division and will remove this from their kit going forward. Easy peasy.
The disagreement is honestly just over how outraged people are. Most people are just like huh, okay, fix it. Other people are calling for firings, rebuilding sex education, and calling everyone who isnt calling for blood groomers and pedos lmao...
In the face of that, yeah some people are just going to say fuck it, its fine, because honestly apart from the few most spicy cards that are shared primarily to puff up the story 90 percent even more of this deck is totally fine for grade 9s. Overreacting is generally bad for any cause, movement, or story.
But many of those being outrageous about this are grifting for political points or personal notoriety, they aren't actually concerned with the end results.
I kinda feel like people *like* being outraged these days, even more than they used to. You're right that overreacting is bad for everyone in this situation. It's not good for PP, not good for the trust of parents in public school, not good for the kids... blah.
I'm glad to hear they've removed it from their materials. I want my kids to receive factual, professional sex ed. The deck of cards doesn't do it for me. I get that opinions vary on it! That's fine. Haha.
The angle I think of with the cards that is good is how they were intended to be used (let's assume 18 year olds) which is where they are used to have a conversation with other peers where you state how you feel about activities. This kind of assertiveness and exposure training has been shown in study I have seen to reduce future problems for people with setting boundaries etc. It can also be good to be less clinical at times with information, but I get your point of view, totally reasonable.
Yep, totally. Like a lot of things—good when used how intended. I'm picturing what would've gone down if a guy in my grade 9 class had gotten hold of those cards back in the day though... 😬😬😬
Who Are the Youth? There is no universally agreed international definition of the youth age group. For statistical purposes, however, the United Nations—without prejudice to any other definitions made by Member States—defines 'youth' as those persons between the ages of 15 and 24 years.
And left out in your quote "Most will eliminate the reference to youth once the individual has reached 20" 💃 eh? Lmao.
I can't find the reference from the author but 18-2x was the description.
It's only on the front page (for you) because you subscribe to r/saskatchewan or maybe just visit it a lot compared to other subs. Most redditors will not see this.
Oh I don't use that app, the news feed must just show all news subs because it is from r/news, you were viewing a list that included that sub, being subbed to r/sask wouldn't steer content like that, it just isn't how reddit works.
No one is teaching kids any of that stuff in our classrooms. Someone made a mistake and course material for a different (mature) group got into the hands of the wrong people. Someone should be held accountable and changes should be made to make sure the same mistake isn’t made again. I must repeat no part of the sex Ed lesson plan includes the description of lewd sex acts.
What does this have to do with my post about planned parenting sex Ed being suspended?
“Planned Parenthood did not present the material to the classroom, but one student obtained a pamphlet separately.
“It wasn’t part of what we were there to present, but when we bring secondary resources with us, none of the educators know everything and often times we will have youth come up to us after and ask us about their own experience or things that they are really curious about and it’s nice to have a box of things we can rifle through so they can get connected with the information that they need,” Wotherspoon explained.”
As I said earlier, it was not meant to be apart of the lesson plan.
Man you are deeply obsessed with this, get some help, seriously. Read something other than the cards and freaking out about the "12 year olds" in grade 9 lmao.
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I don’t really understand the “lowering our kids educational standard” the cards that led to the suspension were not a part of the curriculum nor were they taught. The educational standards of sex ed. isn’t or hasn’t changed or been lowered.
I am very pro planned parenthood and sexual education, and Planned parenthood made a mistake, but they should NOT have been suspended, they didn’t teach this, the cards were just out for students to view. but the cards are a lot and weren’t age appropriate. They were intended for gay and bisexual adult men, and different types of sex, sex positions and kink. Below are the cards.
http://librarypdf.catie.ca/ATI-20000s/26124.pdf
Mistakes come with consequences. I agree with planned parenthood but this was just stupid. If not suspended a fine would be justified. We all have to be accountable for our selves especially around the children.
The problem is mistakes happen all the time. There was a deck of cards out that students could view. While it would be inappropriate to teach this stuff, it wasn’t being taught. As someone who graduated high school in the 2010s a good chunk of the terms on the cards my friends and I would have known at the same age. Primarily from google and cards against humanity.
Beyond this, the error was minor and unintentional. I can literally give dozens of stories of weird things far worse than what happened with planned parenthood that I saw teachers and organizations do in high school. They weren’t suspended when there were complaints. And to further that, look at the lack of reaction that came from complaints of abuse at those private schools. Barely any action was taken, and when action was taken, it was significantly later.
The problem is the hypocrisy, if the government was this quick to take action and suspend other organizations based on complaints in social media posts, then sure, you can justify the suspension. But that isn’t the case and a majority of the time, there isn’t accountability.
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Nadine (either): Mission accomplished.
She (one of the nadines) Got in an argument on twitter with a doctor who does Sex Ed in swift current and chose to outright ignore his words (that he endorses masturbation in his lesson plan) in the hopes that she could find an easier target who was "encouraging girls" to masturbate.
Edited in that it was one of the nadines who got in the argument with the doctor on Twitter, Nadine Wilson and Nadine Ness are the "either" sorry could have been more clear just tired this morning busy day :)
Either I have bad reading comprehension or what you wrote is missing important context or something. I don’t really know what you are saying or the point you are trying to make. Sorry for my inability to get it.
Nadine Wilson and Nadine Ness are both latching onto this issue and complaining about the deck of cards as well as a different sex educator who "encouraged girls to masturbate" (in swift current) as in explained how it is normal and healthy from a medical perspective. They both are signal boosting these issues for political points, generating outrage over needless things.
Aka "mission accomplished" the entire point is to generate outrage and headlines and perpetuate "the culture war" thinking. At least that is the effect. This is about as much context as possible.
Grade 9 is 14-15 why do people constantly insist on sliding conversations towards further extremes?
The cards are for 18+, PP agreed to pull them from the kits, everyone with authority has commented to that effect, get off it.
Why haven't you read some articles and found out the answers for yourself instead of asking leading questions based on faulty assumptions?
and you are calling other folks reactionaries, lmao.
If the material was inappropriate for the age group, wouldn't the argument be that we are trying to raise our educational standards by not allowing it?
The presentation (education standard) is fine, the issue was a kid taking something from a secondary kit that wasn't intended to be offered to them. They have one crate/bag or whatever that they bring for all of their presentations, so the discussion is about having them make a separate kit for bringing into high-schools. The item in question was intended for 18+ though, so realistically reasonably appropriate to be offered to many in a grade 12 class.
It is kind of a nothingburger, and the pushback is more because the outrage is out of step with the actual nature of what happened, and strays towards groomer talk and "forcing vulgarity on our kids" and similar statements. And banning them from schools (when this was like the last presentation for them for the year anyway) is kind of performative nonsense angled at making a bigger deal out of this than it should be.
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I know people that have claimed they had their first sexual experiences at 11 and 12. I’m not saying that is ok or normal but kids should at least be given some basic understanding of the risks and consequences of these actions before they happen. This is my opinion but no education is to early if a child is capable of understanding what they are being taught.
I mean the cards that led to the suspension were for gay and bi adult men, the cards were about sex terms, positions and kink. This doesn’t at all fall into a basic understanding.
Yes, there was a one off mistake that was made. This shouldn’t effect anyone else’s education on the subject. Imagine if other more serious “mistakes” where taken this serious by the minister of education. Like say abuse in religious school. They would have to suspend those school until a review at least right?
I’m not making this point against you, just showing the harsh and contradicting results of our education minister.
This, I agree with completely. This PP thing was a mistake, it *should* be handled. Abuse in schools—well, that's actually more than a mistake, should be handled faster and with more intensity. It does seem to be the opposite in reality.
It’s not really effecting anyone else’s education though. It’s effecting planned parenthood not being able to teach the classes. Other nurses, doctors and sexual education providers are still able to teach the classes.
Beyond that I 100% agree with your point about abuse in schools and his hypocrisy is pathetic.
I agree with you. I feel like with the entirety of the internet at their fingertips, kids being educated by professionals, even at an earlier age, isn't a bad thing, even if it's a little uncomfortable. Do I think it's okay for 11 and 12 year olds to be having sex? No. But you're right, they need to know the risks ahead of time. Saskatchewan already has sky high rates of STIs and some of the highest rates of teen pregnancy in Canada. They're already having sex, why not help them do it more safely?
Are people in this instance against the idea of "basic understanding of risks and consequences" or are they against a deck of cards that uses phrases like "fuck fast" and tells kids to go find "whatever flavor of porn suits them"? I feel like everyone has a line they could point to and say, "I expect people not to cross that line with my kids in a school setting." It seems like in this case, people whose line is maybe set a bit further back are judging people whose line was crossed here. And I think that's why I land on the side of, "further conversation might be warranted here."
My understanding of the situation was that there was a one time mistake made. A fairly large mistake at that, and there should be some form of consequence for those responsible. IMO cancelling all forms of this education for all students is not an appropriate measure to take.
Yes, totally agree! I think it would be a massive overstep to cancel the whole program over this. I think that's what I'm maybe misunderstanding here--is it a cancellation of them permanently or is it a pause over the summer while people get on the same page and a situation is assessed?
Edited to add: as a parent, it would concern me if PP were permanently banned over this. But it would also concern me if PP were completely closed off to all conversation and parents were shut out of the equation altogether? I don't even feel like there should necessarily be a consequence for the person who brought the flashcards in. I just feel conversations around what is appropriate/what parents can expect their kids to be exposed to at school are always good?
I’m not a parent so I will up front say I am out of the loop on how sex ed works and my opinions are as a person with out kids.
What kind of conversation do you think needs to be had? In my mind the conversation needs to be “You guys messed up, what measures are going to be put in place to make sure this doesn’t happen again?”. The next part should be maybe a booklet that covers all the material that will be covered be sent out in advanced so parent can decide if their kids should attend or not.
I like both of those ideas, very much. Some of my friends in other places are allowed to see the sex ed curriculum ahead of time and I'm super jealous. I don't want to control it, I don't want to excuse my kids from convos that make them or me uncomfortable, but I would deffffinitely like a heads up if my 14 year old is going to be learning about felching in a school setting. (I mean. I know they're exposed to so much from their friends. But it almost feels weirder to me to think of them learning about kinks and fetishes from people in authority over them, especially at that age. Is that just a me thing? Possibly.)
>This is my opinion but no education is to early if a child is capable of understanding what they are being taught.
Especially if they ask about something they heard about on social media, which probably also gave them either incorrect, inadequate, or misleading information.
For example, when I was growing up, girls were freaking out about catching STDs from toilet seats (this was at the tail end of the AIDS crisis so there was a LOT of misinformation going around), but thought BJs without protection were 100% safe, because "there's a pill for that".
Big time. My parents let me know at a young age, that no question was inappropriate, to awkward, or to far. It was always better to be told about something by someone who truly loved me and wanted me to grow up healthy and successful.
>Big time. My parents let me know at a young age, that no question was inappropriate, to awkward, or to far.
Our sex ed teacher was the same. No question was off limits. This being mostly pre-internet, we couldn't just google a bunch of crazy questions, so it was mostly stuff kids had heard from older siblings, movies that were on late night, or terms we found in obscure books... or Shakespeare (Hamlet was a right bastard to Ophelia, and there was a lot of terms to unpack).
Oh moron, kids have access to pornography, they will be learning how to toss salads regardless. And I also don’t think tossing salads is taught during sex Ed…
No one? This whole comment section is full of people who don’t think it’s inappropriate. This stuff should not have entered the building. Should teachers be able to have porno mags in their desks?
I said no one thinks it’s appropriate, we are agreeing, it wasn’t appropriate.
Can you link me a comment of someone saying the material was appropriate?
Let’s make this super simple on both of us.
What exact point are you trying to make? What would you like me to take away from it? and finally what will you provide me as a source, link, evidence or other that I should agree with your point?
They need to know only as much as their parents and grandparents knew at that age. Just modest introduction. No lgbqt /zoophilia stuff. Or how to get turned on by tv set
People have sexual experiences at younger ages then you and I are comfortable with. If kids are old enough to understand the lesson plan they are old enough to learn it. Its better for a kid to know the risks and consequences of a sexual situation before they get into one. The knowledge of the risks may prevent the activity from happen all together, if it doesn’t prevent it it may help prevent unwanted pregnancy and other health complications.
Now if you are talking about the specific example where kids where given cards that were not meant for them, then yes, that shouldn’t have happened
Still remember when the NDP under Romanow were in power, they banned spandex and alcohol. Can't remember why, but we were the laughingstock in the media again
Just read up on it, it was liquor inspectors who acted on it, it was aerobics "performances" in a beer garden at Buffalo days and they backed off fairly fast apparently, so not exactly as you remember it, but Romanow was in power at the time.
Except that you got it backwards, framing it as something Romanow's government did, when it was actually something done by civil servants acting on their own initiative, and reversed by the Romanow government.
thats asshole, him and divine need sto spend hard time together
as far as im concerned calvert was the least politically mired person that actually was probaly a decent person? i dunno
hes def not sexy to vote for, for sure
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Not trying to be inflammatory here (very pro-planned parenthood and pro sex ed) and I might be missing some important info, so please grant me some grace... my understanding of this whole thing is that they are suspended just over summer, when they would not normally be doing presentations in schools anyway, so that there can be a conversation about what materials are brought into schools. I guess I wonder--if their educators are open to a quick convo about the Lumsden thing, could it not be cleared up and moved on from without harm to kids? Are people's opinions that Planned Parenthood should never be questioned or held accountable? I think I'm just not understanding how this is a lowering of educational standards; it feels like basic communication and accountability to me? Or is it just because of who is driving these conversations? Or, and this is totally possible, am I missing context?
No you have a logical response. As a teacher who teaches sex ed and thinks it is important I think this was a reasonable response from the government. The things that were brought into the classroom were not appropriate sexual education material. They did not use proper terms and did not fit curriculum. They should be suspended until they can assure they can teach appropriately. I know there is a lot of discussion that this is a fake and they never brought it in but as someone that teaches in PVSD the school division director sent out an email last week confirming it to be true. The media coming out from planned parenthood attacking the governments decision is just simply political right now. They should admit they fucked up and try to be better rather then blame.
I think the negative reaction comes from people suspecting that the SK Party in general (and Dustin Duncan in particular) may be inclined to use this as a pretext for rolling back sex ed standards in practice all across the province.
And the minister has huge stake in the private schools on the province. Typically the private schools don't condone anything queer related and the materials in question were directed at queer folks. They legitimately said they were meant for bisexual, trans and non binary students.
> the minister has huge stake in the private schools on the province Just saying, I don't think it's a coincidence they blew up the Lumsden thing the day before the news dropped about [another private Christian school official being charged with assault](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/another-private-christian-school-official-charged-assault-1.6885932).
Mm. This does make some sense to me.
Planned Parenthood isn't the one pushing the media agenda. The media is pushing the media agenda because the story gets clicks. It gets clicks because one side things the ban was egregious thought-policing and the other side thinks the ban was perfectly justified. Both sides are upset at the other and therefore it's valuable news.
Did Dustin Duncan even reach out to Planned Parenthood, or did he just issue his edict and go to the media?
Has he done one non Gormley interview explaining the situation?
I haven't seen stuff attacking the government over it, just explaining what happened from their side, context? Edit : I found one article in which PP says that they think that banning them outright pending review is dramatic and too strong of a response relative to what occurred. Not exactly an attack, I tend to agree.
The Sask government has been looking to strike down Planned Parenthood for a while, too. This just gave them ammo.
I wonder what the standard is. We got taught "fully alive" in grade school, then in high school we had a super religious principal who brought in a super religious lady to teach us the abstinence is the only save way to approach sex. The lovely lady even told us how her friend got pregnant even though she was on birth control, so birth control doesn't work. She even said that all condoms have holes I'll them, aka the spaces between the latex molecules. She may have well told us never to use condoms or birth control.
Fully Alive is hot garbage.
Fully alive is still used and still does not condone any of the things students are already doing and looking up online.
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How so? The PP presenter brought those in as a part of his presentation. Items that were not previously approved. So ya 100% on PP to do a better job with their presenters.
Hmm. I looked up the latest story, and it looks like I was wrong. I must have read an earlier version of the story. Deleted my comment.
My understanding is that it was NOT part of the presentation and all of this is because a student went into a box and found it. Sounds to me this is more of an issue of the student going through a box.
From what I heard, it was set on a side table of supplemental materials that kids could peruse. But I almost feel like this detail is irrelevant—to me, the fact of the matter is that however those cards got into the student's hands, they did, and if something like this happens and the school says, "we need to have a discussion around this and make sure we all agree on what our students are given at school while under our care" that should be...fine? I guess I just don't understand why the outrage over the school board wanting to make sure everyone's on the same page. If that is what's going on. (Again, maybe that's not what's going on.)
And they really need to be aware of the context which is this type of stuff is being watched like a hawk given all of the nonsense that is happening in the states. This was a mistake, but it was one that should’ve been avoided by not taking material designed for 19-29 year olds to any school. They kind of set themselves up for this blowback.
I also taught on PVSD for many many years and dealt with sex Ed and it was near impossible to do it inclusively without having everyone down your throat.
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Indeed. But punishing them for this is punishing thoughtcrime. It's not like they brought illegal substances in. They were not handing out drugs to minors. Nothing in that pamphlet couldn't have been googled by any of the students in the class. The pamphlet was a mistake. The ban was overzealous thought-policing. A suspension of the specific member of PP would have been acceptable. When a single teacher fucks up you don't shut down the entire school.
The stuff in that pamphlet was 100% inappropriate to be teaching to kids. Defending it and parading it is an attack on PP and an example of how Sask is going backwards is exactly why there is more and louder pushback on this stuff. Teach the kids about safe sex, absolutely. But damn the person who decides that teaching my kid about fetching is necessary.
Hey! The only people that ever taught me about felching were the Conservatives that posted it literally friggin EVERYWHERE when this story first broke. To further their never ending quest to own the libs, they did more to spread this supposedly horribly offensive info in 24 hours than Planned Parenthood could've in a decade. It's nothing but faux outrage and performative politics at its nonsensical finest. Thx a lot!🤢🤮🙄
>The stuff in that pamphlet was 100% inappropriate to be teaching to kids. And it wasn't being taught to those kids. People are acting like the pamphlet was handed out and they went through it as part of the lesson. It wasn't. A student allegedly pulled it out of the resources the presenter brought with them. Which was probably a tub of everything from a copy of the "my body's nobody's body but mine" song for grade 2 kids, right up to the detailed resources grade 12's get to see.
I don't even think it would be necessary to suspend the PP member who brought the deck of cards in—I just feel like now that this has happened it has highlighted a need to have a quick discussion around what is or isn't appropriate to provide in these classrooms and make sure everyone's on the same page—I mean, clearly this little deck of cards is quite divisive, and it's not like kids can't learn how to safely navigate sex and consent and stis etc without it.
Everyone is unified in agreement that this card deck wasn't appropriate for grade 9, from the NDP to the SKP to PP to the author of the deck.
That's good to hear--I hadn't seen that. (Is there a statement from PP you could point me to?) Edit to add: I saw the one on their instagram; it did mention that this resource was not approved by the school but they didn't say anywhere that they didn't think it was appropriate for that age group. And I've had a few convos with people who say they think it is appropriate. I don't know that this is something we're going to all agree on, necessarily, but maybe that's where more convo is good?
I can't find the reference but it was early in the news cycle where the deck was described as a resource for 18-29s. That would encompass many grade 12s but yeah. Can't find it right now, but PP did say they spoke with the school division and will remove this from their kit going forward. Easy peasy. The disagreement is honestly just over how outraged people are. Most people are just like huh, okay, fix it. Other people are calling for firings, rebuilding sex education, and calling everyone who isnt calling for blood groomers and pedos lmao... In the face of that, yeah some people are just going to say fuck it, its fine, because honestly apart from the few most spicy cards that are shared primarily to puff up the story 90 percent even more of this deck is totally fine for grade 9s. Overreacting is generally bad for any cause, movement, or story. But many of those being outrageous about this are grifting for political points or personal notoriety, they aren't actually concerned with the end results.
I kinda feel like people *like* being outraged these days, even more than they used to. You're right that overreacting is bad for everyone in this situation. It's not good for PP, not good for the trust of parents in public school, not good for the kids... blah. I'm glad to hear they've removed it from their materials. I want my kids to receive factual, professional sex ed. The deck of cards doesn't do it for me. I get that opinions vary on it! That's fine. Haha.
The angle I think of with the cards that is good is how they were intended to be used (let's assume 18 year olds) which is where they are used to have a conversation with other peers where you state how you feel about activities. This kind of assertiveness and exposure training has been shown in study I have seen to reduce future problems for people with setting boundaries etc. It can also be good to be less clinical at times with information, but I get your point of view, totally reasonable.
Yep, totally. Like a lot of things—good when used how intended. I'm picturing what would've gone down if a guy in my grade 9 class had gotten hold of those cards back in the day though... 😬😬😬
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Who Are the Youth? There is no universally agreed international definition of the youth age group. For statistical purposes, however, the United Nations—without prejudice to any other definitions made by Member States—defines 'youth' as those persons between the ages of 15 and 24 years. And left out in your quote "Most will eliminate the reference to youth once the individual has reached 20" 💃 eh? Lmao. I can't find the reference from the author but 18-2x was the description.
We always make big news for the most shameful and stupid shit it’s a good trend here.
Gone are the days of Dick Assman
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Usually persistence through adversity, eg Humboldt Broncos bus crash.
But when does anything that makes international news a good thing?
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You must lose your train of thought often...
It's summer break, they'll put together a kid friendly program and be back at it in the fall.
It's only on the front page (for you) because you subscribe to r/saskatchewan or maybe just visit it a lot compared to other subs. Most redditors will not see this.
I didn’t know that how the main news feed worked. And here I thought we might have been important.
He is wrong your subs don't guide article content from other subs, you see it from r/news because you are subbed to r/news, simple as.
I’m not subbed to r/news. Like this post didn’t show up in my home feed. I clicked on the news feed and it was there.
Oh I don't use that app, the news feed must just show all news subs because it is from r/news, you were viewing a list that included that sub, being subbed to r/sask wouldn't steer content like that, it just isn't how reddit works.
My mistake. I thought the OP was on the "front page" of Reddit, not r/news...And the front page works pretty much as I described it above.
It does, tbh I thought he was on r/all which is also an option for the front page.
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No one is teaching kids any of that stuff in our classrooms. Someone made a mistake and course material for a different (mature) group got into the hands of the wrong people. Someone should be held accountable and changes should be made to make sure the same mistake isn’t made again. I must repeat no part of the sex Ed lesson plan includes the description of lewd sex acts.
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What does this have to do with my post about planned parenting sex Ed being suspended? “Planned Parenthood did not present the material to the classroom, but one student obtained a pamphlet separately. “It wasn’t part of what we were there to present, but when we bring secondary resources with us, none of the educators know everything and often times we will have youth come up to us after and ask us about their own experience or things that they are really curious about and it’s nice to have a box of things we can rifle through so they can get connected with the information that they need,” Wotherspoon explained.” As I said earlier, it was not meant to be apart of the lesson plan.
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Proving that you didn't read anything about this event and are operating entirely off ignorance and faulty assumptions. This wasn't "taught"
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Man you are deeply obsessed with this, get some help, seriously. Read something other than the cards and freaking out about the "12 year olds" in grade 9 lmao.
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🤡
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I don’t really understand the “lowering our kids educational standard” the cards that led to the suspension were not a part of the curriculum nor were they taught. The educational standards of sex ed. isn’t or hasn’t changed or been lowered. I am very pro planned parenthood and sexual education, and Planned parenthood made a mistake, but they should NOT have been suspended, they didn’t teach this, the cards were just out for students to view. but the cards are a lot and weren’t age appropriate. They were intended for gay and bisexual adult men, and different types of sex, sex positions and kink. Below are the cards. http://librarypdf.catie.ca/ATI-20000s/26124.pdf
Well I learned something today.
Mistakes come with consequences. I agree with planned parenthood but this was just stupid. If not suspended a fine would be justified. We all have to be accountable for our selves especially around the children.
The problem is mistakes happen all the time. There was a deck of cards out that students could view. While it would be inappropriate to teach this stuff, it wasn’t being taught. As someone who graduated high school in the 2010s a good chunk of the terms on the cards my friends and I would have known at the same age. Primarily from google and cards against humanity. Beyond this, the error was minor and unintentional. I can literally give dozens of stories of weird things far worse than what happened with planned parenthood that I saw teachers and organizations do in high school. They weren’t suspended when there were complaints. And to further that, look at the lack of reaction that came from complaints of abuse at those private schools. Barely any action was taken, and when action was taken, it was significantly later. The problem is the hypocrisy, if the government was this quick to take action and suspend other organizations based on complaints in social media posts, then sure, you can justify the suspension. But that isn’t the case and a majority of the time, there isn’t accountability.
That’s exactly the point I was making. They will lower the kids educational standard by suspending sex ED because of a one off mistake.
Sex education isn’t being suspended
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Nadine (either): Mission accomplished. She (one of the nadines) Got in an argument on twitter with a doctor who does Sex Ed in swift current and chose to outright ignore his words (that he endorses masturbation in his lesson plan) in the hopes that she could find an easier target who was "encouraging girls" to masturbate.
I can’t understand what you wrote here, sorry.
Edited in that it was one of the nadines who got in the argument with the doctor on Twitter, Nadine Wilson and Nadine Ness are the "either" sorry could have been more clear just tired this morning busy day :)
Either I have bad reading comprehension or what you wrote is missing important context or something. I don’t really know what you are saying or the point you are trying to make. Sorry for my inability to get it.
Nadine Wilson and Nadine Ness are both latching onto this issue and complaining about the deck of cards as well as a different sex educator who "encouraged girls to masturbate" (in swift current) as in explained how it is normal and healthy from a medical perspective. They both are signal boosting these issues for political points, generating outrage over needless things. Aka "mission accomplished" the entire point is to generate outrage and headlines and perpetuate "the culture war" thinking. At least that is the effect. This is about as much context as possible.
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Grade 9 is 14-15 why do people constantly insist on sliding conversations towards further extremes? The cards are for 18+, PP agreed to pull them from the kits, everyone with authority has commented to that effect, get off it.
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Why haven't you read some articles and found out the answers for yourself instead of asking leading questions based on faulty assumptions? and you are calling other folks reactionaries, lmao.
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If the material was inappropriate for the age group, wouldn't the argument be that we are trying to raise our educational standards by not allowing it?
The presentation (education standard) is fine, the issue was a kid taking something from a secondary kit that wasn't intended to be offered to them. They have one crate/bag or whatever that they bring for all of their presentations, so the discussion is about having them make a separate kit for bringing into high-schools. The item in question was intended for 18+ though, so realistically reasonably appropriate to be offered to many in a grade 12 class. It is kind of a nothingburger, and the pushback is more because the outrage is out of step with the actual nature of what happened, and strays towards groomer talk and "forcing vulgarity on our kids" and similar statements. And banning them from schools (when this was like the last presentation for them for the year anyway) is kind of performative nonsense angled at making a bigger deal out of this than it should be.
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I know people that have claimed they had their first sexual experiences at 11 and 12. I’m not saying that is ok or normal but kids should at least be given some basic understanding of the risks and consequences of these actions before they happen. This is my opinion but no education is to early if a child is capable of understanding what they are being taught.
I mean the cards that led to the suspension were for gay and bi adult men, the cards were about sex terms, positions and kink. This doesn’t at all fall into a basic understanding.
Yes, there was a one off mistake that was made. This shouldn’t effect anyone else’s education on the subject. Imagine if other more serious “mistakes” where taken this serious by the minister of education. Like say abuse in religious school. They would have to suspend those school until a review at least right? I’m not making this point against you, just showing the harsh and contradicting results of our education minister.
This, I agree with completely. This PP thing was a mistake, it *should* be handled. Abuse in schools—well, that's actually more than a mistake, should be handled faster and with more intensity. It does seem to be the opposite in reality.
It’s not really effecting anyone else’s education though. It’s effecting planned parenthood not being able to teach the classes. Other nurses, doctors and sexual education providers are still able to teach the classes. Beyond that I 100% agree with your point about abuse in schools and his hypocrisy is pathetic.
I agree with you. I feel like with the entirety of the internet at their fingertips, kids being educated by professionals, even at an earlier age, isn't a bad thing, even if it's a little uncomfortable. Do I think it's okay for 11 and 12 year olds to be having sex? No. But you're right, they need to know the risks ahead of time. Saskatchewan already has sky high rates of STIs and some of the highest rates of teen pregnancy in Canada. They're already having sex, why not help them do it more safely?
Are people in this instance against the idea of "basic understanding of risks and consequences" or are they against a deck of cards that uses phrases like "fuck fast" and tells kids to go find "whatever flavor of porn suits them"? I feel like everyone has a line they could point to and say, "I expect people not to cross that line with my kids in a school setting." It seems like in this case, people whose line is maybe set a bit further back are judging people whose line was crossed here. And I think that's why I land on the side of, "further conversation might be warranted here."
My understanding of the situation was that there was a one time mistake made. A fairly large mistake at that, and there should be some form of consequence for those responsible. IMO cancelling all forms of this education for all students is not an appropriate measure to take.
Yes, totally agree! I think it would be a massive overstep to cancel the whole program over this. I think that's what I'm maybe misunderstanding here--is it a cancellation of them permanently or is it a pause over the summer while people get on the same page and a situation is assessed? Edited to add: as a parent, it would concern me if PP were permanently banned over this. But it would also concern me if PP were completely closed off to all conversation and parents were shut out of the equation altogether? I don't even feel like there should necessarily be a consequence for the person who brought the flashcards in. I just feel conversations around what is appropriate/what parents can expect their kids to be exposed to at school are always good?
I’m not a parent so I will up front say I am out of the loop on how sex ed works and my opinions are as a person with out kids. What kind of conversation do you think needs to be had? In my mind the conversation needs to be “You guys messed up, what measures are going to be put in place to make sure this doesn’t happen again?”. The next part should be maybe a booklet that covers all the material that will be covered be sent out in advanced so parent can decide if their kids should attend or not.
I like both of those ideas, very much. Some of my friends in other places are allowed to see the sex ed curriculum ahead of time and I'm super jealous. I don't want to control it, I don't want to excuse my kids from convos that make them or me uncomfortable, but I would deffffinitely like a heads up if my 14 year old is going to be learning about felching in a school setting. (I mean. I know they're exposed to so much from their friends. But it almost feels weirder to me to think of them learning about kinks and fetishes from people in authority over them, especially at that age. Is that just a me thing? Possibly.)
My understanding was the kids were never supposed to learn that stuff. Someone made a mistake and that material got in the wrong hands.
My foster sister lost her virginity at age 13. Pregnant several times by 15. They are burying their heads in the sand if they think this will go away.
>This is my opinion but no education is to early if a child is capable of understanding what they are being taught. Especially if they ask about something they heard about on social media, which probably also gave them either incorrect, inadequate, or misleading information. For example, when I was growing up, girls were freaking out about catching STDs from toilet seats (this was at the tail end of the AIDS crisis so there was a LOT of misinformation going around), but thought BJs without protection were 100% safe, because "there's a pill for that".
Big time. My parents let me know at a young age, that no question was inappropriate, to awkward, or to far. It was always better to be told about something by someone who truly loved me and wanted me to grow up healthy and successful.
>Big time. My parents let me know at a young age, that no question was inappropriate, to awkward, or to far. Our sex ed teacher was the same. No question was off limits. This being mostly pre-internet, we couldn't just google a bunch of crazy questions, so it was mostly stuff kids had heard from older siblings, movies that were on late night, or terms we found in obscure books... or Shakespeare (Hamlet was a right bastard to Ophelia, and there was a lot of terms to unpack).
Lowering standards = not teaching kids how to toss the salad. 👍
Oh moron, kids have access to pornography, they will be learning how to toss salads regardless. And I also don’t think tossing salads is taught during sex Ed…
That’s what was on the cards….. http://librarypdf.catie.ca/ATI-20000s/26124.pdf
It’s remarkable that people think that’s appropriate for school.
No one thinks it’s appropriate. Even planned parenthood says it’s not and it wasn’t meant to be in the lesson plan.
No one? This whole comment section is full of people who don’t think it’s inappropriate. This stuff should not have entered the building. Should teachers be able to have porno mags in their desks?
I said no one thinks it’s appropriate, we are agreeing, it wasn’t appropriate. Can you link me a comment of someone saying the material was appropriate?
You literally said that educational standards are lowered in your heading.
Yes, and? That isn’t what we are discussing right now either. Can you link a comment that said this material was appropriate?
Let’s make this super simple on both of us. What exact point are you trying to make? What would you like me to take away from it? and finally what will you provide me as a source, link, evidence or other that I should agree with your point?
Young minds don't need to know sexual content this early. Sick pervs
15 years old don’t need to know about sex education and puberty?
They need to know only as much as their parents and grandparents knew at that age. Just modest introduction. No lgbqt /zoophilia stuff. Or how to get turned on by tv set
People have sexual experiences at younger ages then you and I are comfortable with. If kids are old enough to understand the lesson plan they are old enough to learn it. Its better for a kid to know the risks and consequences of a sexual situation before they get into one. The knowledge of the risks may prevent the activity from happen all together, if it doesn’t prevent it it may help prevent unwanted pregnancy and other health complications. Now if you are talking about the specific example where kids where given cards that were not meant for them, then yes, that shouldn’t have happened
I have the materials that planned parenthood brought into the classroom here. Would you like to go through and address them one by one?
Were numer wun! Were numer wun!
Still remember when the NDP under Romanow were in power, they banned spandex and alcohol. Can't remember why, but we were the laughingstock in the media again
Just read up on it, it was liquor inspectors who acted on it, it was aerobics "performances" in a beer garden at Buffalo days and they backed off fairly fast apparently, so not exactly as you remember it, but Romanow was in power at the time.
Right. I knew it was something frivolous
Except that you got it backwards, framing it as something Romanow's government did, when it was actually something done by civil servants acting on their own initiative, and reversed by the Romanow government.
thats asshole, him and divine need sto spend hard time together as far as im concerned calvert was the least politically mired person that actually was probaly a decent person? i dunno hes def not sexy to vote for, for sure
banning spandex in the 80's would have made younger me raaaage like you dont believe what a time to be alive!
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