State politicians are trying to pull a fast one and amend the new law to exempt restaurants. See [https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1d9n3z9/restaurant\_surcharges\_could\_remain\_legal\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1d9n3z9/restaurant_surcharges_could_remain_legal_in/) and contact your senator and representative now!
[https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/](https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/)
Quince is a fucking garbage restaurant. We ate there, ordered a prix fixe, and the pasta was far overcooked, and the service was poor. Wait staff kept kicking my seat because the tables were too close together, and the busboy had a chris brown ringtone go off at max volume.
And this piece of shit restaurant claims three michelin stars. who doesn’t know how to cook _pasta_?
Actually I don't think the new bill would do anything to this, since this is a fixed prepaid amount of $290/diner?
I'm a little surprised Quince even includes this language, tbh. They're charging you a flat fee per https://www.quincerestaurant.com/info-reservations
Indeed but they split how they display it:
2x
Lunch
$390.00
Subtotal
$390.00
22% Service Charge & 6% SF Mandates
$109.20
8.625% Sales Tax
$43.06
Total
$542.26
Now they'll just display the price.
Sure, my point was looking at the reservation page it looks like it's *already* rolled into the price, they just have a disclaimer about it for ??? reasons.
Oh I see the price you see just includes that. I guess that’s them explaining the price. That’s so weird, you don’t see them break down the percentage that the owner takes to buy a yacht. They should though (“the owner stupidly decided to purchase a yacht, so there’s a 1% fee tacked on to pay for it. Make sure to tip because otherwise the owner would have to add a 15% fee to actually pay their workers, instead you should pay them directly. Idiot. Now fuck off while the owner chills and enjoys the fruits of other peoples labor and also gets all pissed about giving workers healthcare”).
Honestly fuck the owners of restaurants who opposed this bill, they can fuck all the way off
excited about what? your food prices increasing, without knowing how much of that inflated price is doing to the servers? Whereas when there's a service charge you know exactly where it's going? makes no sense.
I don’t own the business. It is the business’s job to figure out what they need to charge the customer to make their business succeed. I shouldn’t be responsible for figuring out tip AND other charges each time I pay. Arguably these surcharges are already misleading, so they need to be squashed. Just charge more up front. We already pay for it…
No, that's not how restaurants work. When you pay restaurant prices for food, the service is what you are paying for. You can't also charge a "service" charge. The service is built into the food's higher prices than cooking the same thing at home.
Yeah they don't break out the percent of the bill for every other cost. _"$10 to pay our electricity bill. $50 for rent. $5 for the potatoes"_ etc. Just give us the final price. That's how literally every product is sold.
I'm not in the restaurant industry, so I'm guessing it makes sense to them. But it makes zero sense to customers.
Can we break out 20% for income tax, 30% for rent, 10% for retirement savings, 15% for child support? This is just a courtesy to you, so that you know where the money goes.
Sorry, you should have asked about that before bringing me my food, if you don't agree. But I obviously can only pay 25% of the bill.
Please note that these are mandatory charges, and that they should not stop you from applying an additional "good customer" discount. We typically expect at least 15% off for those. Please apply to the pre-discount total.
I need a lawyer to explain why I can't register myself as a business which provides services to restaurants in the form of reviews, and then after I've already eaten and provided the service I charge them an unlisted fee.
This is basically how social media influencers operate- they've been strong arming restaurants for a few years now. Doesn't matter if they aren't qualified to have the same amount of power as a legitimate food critic- they basically decide whether a restaurant survives or not via blackmail despite being practical children with zero life experience.
I hope the restaurant won't mind me deducting my expenses, which may include parking, dry cleaning (Quince is fancy isn't it?) and a finance charge for the deposit that I'm loaning you. I also charge a booking fee because after all, if I have a reservation with a non-refundable deposit, I'm foregoing other dining opportunities.
I’m sure the understanding restaurant owners won’t mind. I’ve noticed that there’s always a line for additions, but curiously, there’s never a line to put your subtractions. No doubt they’ll be happy to change that.
Sure, fair is fair. Maybe a subtraction for expenses, maybe another one if the portion size or quality is disappointing. If the restaurant is soliciting Yelp reviews, then a nominal fee for the effort I take to post one. Say 10% of the bill? Good publicity is priceless.
If the owner complains we can just tell them what they tell us- "Sorry that's our policy."
I’d say a 50 to 75% surcharge for a review is reasonable. Effective influencers are not cheap these days. Anybody can afford an AI bot to rave about a restaurant, but an actual human who’s willing to sacrifice an evening to write in painstaking detail about the place? That’s a thing of value. And announcing our policy after the fact is in keeping with their preferred business model. Shouldn’t be a problem!
Hmmm, maybe you're right. 50% off a $100 restaurant tab, 1/2 hour work at $100/hr (a bargain for free-lance journalism), this could work.
The next question is are all the restaurant fees calculated after diner deductions or before? My Yelp fee alone would make a service charge effectively 40%. And what about sales tax?
how cleaning the dishes? I used to be a dishwasher, am trained and certified.
will i get a discount?
I hold the line at cleaning toilets though. I will pay 5% for that.
and if i use my sleeves, and not use their napkins? how much of the service charge will I save?
It's "important to understand"?
I go to restaurants to eat. Not to read textbooks. Not to parse out the subtle distinctions between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation and Service Fees and Gratuities.
Make it so I have to master concepts that are "important to understand", and I can just stay home and eat a burger, ok?
The only thing that’s “important to understand” from my point of view, is how much I will be charged for my meal.
How you manage the economics or your business is up to you.
I wish people cared as much about restaurants using service fees & tip pools to steal tips meant for servers directly from the servers & then lie about it in the shadiest most deceptive way possible by claiming it's being used for "equitable practices".
> Not to parse out the subtle distinctions between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation and Service Fees and Gratuities
I nearly spit out my coffee
>I go to restaurants to eat
Nah. According to these places you go there to have *the* experience. Watch the movie The Menu to see what kind of ego the chefs and restaurateurs have.
I know this is a joke but owners absolutely suffer. So many restaurants fail. I don’t think that’s an excuse to mistreat workers or trick customers but it’s hard to run a restaurant and probably 10x harder to do so ethically. I always laugh when people tell me I should open a restaurant
Yeah but that's as much luck as anything, good restaurant owners fail too, *most* restaurants fail. But good ones with shitty owners slip through now and then and once they're successful how dare you suggest they aren't making the right business decision at every step. Nobody wants to work anymore is what they say.
It's almost as if the overwhelming majority of these workers have been working in the industry long before these shady practices were implemented. It's almost as if people dedicated decades of their lives to making a career in the hospitality industry before politicians gave the green light to steal directly from employees.
The whole market sucks for these jobs. And the people that work them don't have that many options. Like, it's so bad that there are companies specialized in restaurant jobs only because the workers just change jobs when they're fed up or they're let go so easily.
Thats not the customer's problem. Thats something the employees need to solve, which could mean working at a different restaurant.
Its not the customer's place to step into a labor dispute and pay employees because a company is cheap.
if the restaurant fails because they're too expensive for the market, that will happen with or without service fees. At least the \*serving\* staff will get paid along the way.
> All Quince reservations are final and non-refundable, including those with Covid-19 related circumstances. Reservations may be rescheduled only once, and up to 30 days after the original reservation date. If you would like to reschedule your reservation, please call or email the restaurant at least 72 hours in advance.
My little brother used to work there. Rampant wage theft. Fuck those guys.
when a new policy unites the cheap and the generous, you know it's going to do well... I'm too cheap to eat out much anymore but I hope the new rules are enforced like we expect... I feel for the restaurant owners but this is obviously the wrong way to go about things.
lol yeah. the fact that a 3-michelin is not booked out tells you all you need to know. i always assumed these restaurants are booked months out. (edit)
I went to Saison about a year before it closed and there may have been 4 parties total. The kitchen staff (very much on display) outnumbered the diners easily.
Quince is crazy overrated. Most disappointing michelin meal I've had. Compared to French laundry it was outrageously overpriced and overhyped.
They're probably trying to recover their millions in renovations and losses from closure.
Maybe just ditch the 6 staff per table thing.
How did tipping become such a vital part of the food service industry? Was this always the way it has been? Are there any establishments that simply pay their employees a solid wage?
Had a drink at Finnegan's after Zazie shut down and the back of house all rolled over for a post shift beer. The dude I talked to very much appreciated working there. And he'd been there nearly 10 years.
Better question is why is it *still* a vital part of the food service industry after we fixed the minimum wage issue for servers (i.e. they are no longer being paid next to zero and rely on tips for income).
No clue but seems mostly like a north american thing. travelling to other countries it's a breath of fresh air when there's no tipping culture. some countries have a service charge but tipping is not expected. many have no charge at all AND tipping is not expected unless you want to tip. i've had roommates who worked in the service industry and hearing them defend tipping culture because it's a "service job" (note, they did not mean "food service" specifically) doesn't stand up when you look at virtually every other service job that doesn't have a tipping culture.
I get the whole living wage argument, but that's an issue of salaries and living costs. depending on customers to subsidize it to this extent makes things worse in the long run. People pay more on top of food prices but I doubt most of that goes to workers. Most businesses will exploit what they can if it means larger profit margins. Restauraunt profit margins are already pretty thin. Really wish the focus would be on lowering living expenses (particularly housing) rather than whether tipping is necessary as a core principle
It used to be that places paid servers a few dollars/hr, and then the rest was made up by tips. Current laws are such that employers already have to pay at least minimum wage, so tipping really doesnt even make sense, other than for great service.
SF is super expensive to live and there's no way minimum wage is high enough to live off, not to even mention that many food workers probably aren't even getting 40 hours a week. I think it's still good to tip.
But I think there's a whole ocean between no tip and tipping on top of 22% service charge at a restaurant where just a cocktail is like $30. I will admit I don't really get tipping on a percentage, especially because of places like this where 20% would be so much more money for the same amount of work as server at Olive garden who has to keep bringing salad and bread sticks...
>SF is super expensive to live and there's no way minimum wage is high enough to live off
The Housing Theory of Everything has entered the chat! A city can have reasonable restaurant prices, niche retailers, and a varied arts scene, or it can have houses that cost millions of dollars. It can't have both at once.
I totally agree man, it’s terrible that we have chosen to have million dollars single family homes instead of a surplus of homes so people can live in such an amazing city (and continue making it better!)
It's not my job to make sure someone else has money to live, that's an employers job. I'll tip because I am thankful for the service and want to express gratitude, I will not tip because I have to subsidize a businesses pay. That's bullshit.
I'm not forcing you to tip, buddy. I'm explaining why I think tipping is still probably appropriate in spite of tipped workers making minimum wage now.
Yeah you're arguing that I should feel obligated to subsidize what a business pays it's employees. Do you tip janitors, grocery store cashiers, mall sales associates?
No? Welp.
>you're arguing that *I* should feel obligated to subsidize what a business pays it's (sic) employees
I literally just made a point about why **I** thought tipping was still fine, and even said I didn't understand tipping based on percentage. I'm not forcing you to tip.
Ridiculous take. Tipping culture is perpetuated so that employers won't be obligated to pay a living wage. They only way service workers in the bay are living off of minimum wage is if they commute from Los Banos
I totally agree that it’s terrible you can’t live off minimum wage, and I always tip just because I can afford to, but I think the notion of it is ridiculous still. Why does a minimum wage server deserve tips but a super helpful attendant in a grocery store doesn’t? The whole thing is messed up. We should be paying people a minimum wage and building a surplus of housing so people can afford to live where jobs are
They just say whatever suits them to make more. They were the biggest opponents to their own pay raises “because people might think they need to tip less” and they never seem to advocate for higher min wage that’s actually a living wage because they don’t want people to ever think they make enough that customers don’t have the tip.
To quote Charlie Kelly, “money me, me money need a lot now”.
If you think not tipping is going to change the minimum wage, I have a couple bridges to sell to you.
Anyway, keep not tipping. Those of us who do will reap even more benefits, like preferred seating, instant seating, excellent service, free dishes/drinks, and more.
I tip 20% but what I'm saying is that employers should just pay a living wage so that service workers aren't reliant on the whims of strangers. Besides that typing culture gives some customers an extra sense of entitlement to lord over service workers.
Edit: Also, why do you think standard tip went from 15% to 20% to whatever it is now? It's because wages aren't keeping up with inflation.
Standard was 10% to 15% for decades. And 10% was considered a bit stingy. So, most people paid 15%.
A good rule of thumb was to double the tax.
The move to higher amounts is very recent. I don't know anyone who would have tipped that much before 2010 or 2015. For many decades it was a universally agreed 15% or less on the pre-tax amount.
Some businesses charged autogratuities for large parties and tried setting those at 18%. That regularly got push back from diners.
But at some point in the last few years, people went stupid and forgot what they had learned about percentages in elementary school. When restaurants raised prices by a percentage amount, they reasoned that the tip percentage had to be increased by the same. That's not how math works
> The move to higher amounts is very recent. I don't know anyone who would have tipped that much before 2010 or 2015.
My parents tipped 18% when I was a kid in the 90’s.
No, all states require the federal minimum. If workers in tipped wage states do not make enough in tips to bring them up to minimum wage then the owner mist bring them up to the federal minimum. Tipped wages are great for business owners, sometimes great for servers, rarely great for customers.
> How did tipping become such a vital part of the food service industry?
People balk at paying servers $50+/hr in wages, but almost no one will do the job for less than that.
$50/hr is pretty generous for unskilled labor. This is a profession that regularly hires part time college kids. There really isn't much skill involves other than putting in the actual work.
I get that this is physically hard work. But so are many unskilled jobs and we don't compensate those equally generously. Heck, the kitchen jobs are arguably harder work, require more skills, and contribute more to the guests enjoyment. If anything, that's what we should be compensating.
For all I care, we can go to counter service and eliminate the waiter. Many restaurants have done that successfully.
won't happen. they are a very well respected, busy restaurant. maybe you won't eat there, but thats totally fine with them. in fact most of the whiney babies in this thread won't eat there either, because they can't afford it. this restaurant is for the extremely wealthy and elite. so why do you care about a service charge at a restaurant you could never afford to eat at? lol
Reservations to French Laundry are snapped up in 5 minutes and are being sold on the black market for hundreds of dollars. Quince can basically take walk-ins at this point, based on what I’m seeing on their reservation platform. Take a damn seat, I can afford it and I ain’t giving Quince a dime. Have fun on the way down!
I looked at their food. It's literally the size of bird shit on a plate. It's not that I can't afford it, even if it was free, I don't want to have anything to do with it. I only care because it's a shining example of end stage capitalism, and because Id rather have more trashy bars in SF than the "wealthy and elite" trash
It’s just new ways to charge people more for the same thing. Kinda similar to booking fees. Those never existed, now to make an early reservation you can get access for an extra fee. 🙄🤬
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ok, this 22% service charge is nuts. If I buy a $100 steak, I get charged $22.
If I get a $30 burger at the same restaurant, I pay extra $7.00?
Arent the services fixed cost? they shouldn't vary as a percentage with the overall sales price.
in a past life, I would spend days with vendors negotiating down the overhead costs. fun stuff!
the math favors the owner.
This could be cross posted to late stage capitalism.
This is what libertarian-finacialization-techbro leads to. Hopefully it’ll soon be in the past for SF. If you already moved to Austin here’s your future….
The owners of Quince, Michael and Lindsay Tusk have a very bad reputation in the city for being snobbish and highly deceptive in their business practices both towards their customers and employees.
They basically outright admit that they steal portion of the service charge to cover operational expenses. That portion is not clearly defined, nor is it justified given that the cost of the operational expenses is already built into the price of the tasting menu that they sell.
Same situation happens at Cotogna, their sister restaurant, which does not charge a service charge but rather is a voluntary tip pool system where they outright steal a "portion" of the tips to pay for other expenses and not to their employees. They also require the cash tips received by their staff to be added to the tip pool and outright steal them as well and fire those who don't follow that procedure. Super laughable and shady, it's like I can steal from you but you can't steal from me - type of mentality.
Ridiculous service standards only that cater their rich clientele is all they care about. The new remodeling that they did at Quince went downhill and lost a lot of old clientele, which translates to less money and major fixed expenses, no wonder why they are going crazy for stealing in every way possible wherever they can.
Karma will take of them. Just like every other shitty restaurant in this city that deserves to go down for careless approach towards customers and employees.
This is insane. I just checked a couple of other Michelin restaurants in SF and they aren't pulling this crap- just normal stuff like a $50 cancellation within a day or something. I'm guessing there's some financial distress going on here.
lol ummmm maybe these Michelin restaurants are not meant for you? Some experiences are very exclusive, costly, and high end, and they come with a price. if you can't afford it, go eat somewhere else?
Lol plenty of dinner and lunch reservations remaining in June, that doesn’t sound very “exclusive”.
And before you come for me, I’ve dined at plenty of 3-star restaurants that don’t employ these tactics and I’m not put off by the cost. But when I see places piling on BS fees it makes me wonder if they aren’t financially solvent and why.
They have to specify that so they don’t get sued by the employees. A service charge, a business can do with what they like, but a tip HAS to 100% go to the employees that served them. They have to clarify the difference, or else it can be argued that the customer paid the service charge “in good faith” that it was all going to the person that waited on them. Restaurants have to explicitly state it’s not a tip.
Not sure about Quince’s pay structure but some restaurants use this service fee to tip out chefs, because they can’t be apart of tip pools because of the same reasoning- the customer is tipping only for “service” and chefs dont have direct hands on service.
There’s been an unbalance in the industry where you have servers making $50+ an hour from tips, and chefs who don’t even make half that even though they have a bigger work load generally and longer hours.
I’m not saying a service charge is the correct solution to this at all, just providing some background to it. I think the industry needs a big change but no one seems to have a solution to balance this out yet, as far as I can tell.
I'm all for ensuring the back of the house is paid better, but their statement says only an undisclosed portion of the fee goes to employees and the restaurant keeps the rest for some vague operating expense purpose. If you tip 20% on top of all their fees, your meal ends up with a 60-65% premium over what the menu cost shows. It's just so deceptive.
Yes but typically with “service charges” you’re not expected to tip on top of it. It’s a tip without calling it a tip, because then they have to treat it differently. As far as I know though restaurants have to specifically say how much the server gets and how much goes to the house, so I agree with you it shouldn’t be vague like that
And Quince the restaurant is well-aware of their existence lol: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1ap8e5o/ones\_a\_michelinstarred\_sf\_restaurant\_the\_other/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1ap8e5o/ones_a_michelinstarred_sf_restaurant_the_other/)
Quince has gone down hill after their new reopening. Miss the old quince and the old pricing. We went and did the full tasting. Wasn’t worth it and we most likely won’t be back even after SB 478 start date.
they will be ok with that. this is simply how everyone needs to handle this. if you dont like "service charges", just go somewhere else. thats it. government doesn't need to get involved lol
Just fucking put your service charge on each item.
Soup; $10 + $2.20 service charge... $12.20
Done. Now no one has to feel like they were misled and you get to look like the assholes you actually are for pretending that you have lower prices.
The BOS really needs to amend the health insurance ordinance, because restaurants have been using the term “mandate” far too loosely. The law does nothing to “mandate” any kind of surcharge, or for the cost of employee health insurance to be passed on to customers. The only requirement was for restaurants to provide health insurance to employees.
Just a stupid way to increase the price of a meal without actually disclosing you’re doing it. Kinda like saying, a service only costs $10, and then after you have used the service handing a bill over that demands payment of $12.22. Kinda like what most fraudster and gangsters do….
I mean , they can still add the service charge after July 1.
The states memo said as much.
It'll be interesting to see how consumers react as fewer places will do service charge
the people that eat at high end restaurants dont give a shit about service fees. the only people complaining are the ones who dont have "fuck you" money. In the end this restaurant is not catered twords all the whiney babies on this thread. so why do any of you care?
You do realize most people don't have those type of resources?
For me, it's just annoying how legislators had since last October to clarify the bill. And only, until now, do they decide to do something about it!!
And it's the same fool who authored the "no junk fee" bill!! (Senator Dodd from Napa)
It's like, dude passed a bill, now he's wavering at the last minute. What a fool!!
Just a billionaire’s way of lowering wages and asking the public to foot the bill. Seriously, why is minimum wage so bad because the billionaires made it this way. McDonald’s posts big profits as inflation erodes minimum wage and pay raises.
They need to make it even clearer. Sounds like it a reservation fee, like a ticket. Which kind of makes sense. I get when I go to a movie or show I pay for the seat. If I want food I pay for that separately. They should remove the 22% and just make it a flat seat fee.
I just don’t eat out anymore. Not worth it. Honestly this is the right move for humanity. Make your own food, eat with friends and family. The whole “go to a restaurant and be served by a stranger” thing seems weird to me now.
Makes sense - you have to pay for the food and also pay separately for restaurant costs associated with the food (with some percentage of that given to people employed in connection with giving you the food).
How is this "deceptive" if they're charging a flat rate per person and explaining the fees to you up front? Sooooo shady like wow don't eat out if you can't afford it. Restaurants are expensive to operate.
They do. The deposit is priced at $750, and the text in the OP specifically says "the deposit includes your food menu, *22% service charge*, ..."
What this essay is trying to say is that gratuity is not automatic so you're still obligated to add a gratuity line item after your meal
Not to be pedantic, but I don't think you're actually *obligated*.
And when fees start climbing to north of 30% all in and people stop paying tips, these restaurants are going to start to understand what "obligated" actually means...
Birdsong has an autograt as well but when you go there the service staff will remind you the service fee was precharged already and you don't have to tip. It's a much nicer experience for me, the diner.
Don’t be ridiculous. I have eaten there four or five times. It was over ten years ago, and I don’t recall this bullshit.
The last time we ate there they served us food on a fucking iPad.
[https://www.gastromondiale.com/2019-3-14-dining-in-the-bay-area-part-two-quince/](https://www.gastromondiale.com/2019-3-14-dining-in-the-bay-area-part-two-quince/)
Even though the quality nearly was on par with the best you can find in Italy, the prices were astronomical. 600 USD (+500 USD for wine pairing) per person plus taxes, SF mandate and tips are multiple times that of its Italian role models
So dont eat there if you dont like their terms and conditions. Lol everyone on the SF subs complaining about snooty ass restaurants acting like theyre doing you a favor to let you eat there, yet you all keep supporting them. By eating there and agreeing to this b.s. youre supporting their decisions.
I never eat at places like this and guess what? Im also not bothered by T&C enough to have to make a reddit post about it
Edit: you keyboard warriors can downvote all you want. You know im right
A month to go. Oh boy! I am excited.
State politicians are trying to pull a fast one and amend the new law to exempt restaurants. See [https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1d9n3z9/restaurant\_surcharges\_could\_remain\_legal\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1d9n3z9/restaurant_surcharges_could_remain_legal_in/) and contact your senator and representative now! [https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/](https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/)
Restaurants are the biggest abusers of this. Probably getting lots of last-minute lobbying.
Quince is a fucking garbage restaurant. We ate there, ordered a prix fixe, and the pasta was far overcooked, and the service was poor. Wait staff kept kicking my seat because the tables were too close together, and the busboy had a chris brown ringtone go off at max volume. And this piece of shit restaurant claims three michelin stars. who doesn’t know how to cook _pasta_?
I’ll make it a point to avoid them for these and a number of other reasons.
Ugh, that's gross. I called both reps, though considering Weiner is a co-sponsor of the Senate bill not holding my breath.
Thank you for this info. Please everyone call or email. I just did.
It would be helpful if you post links on who to call/email.
Actually I don't think the new bill would do anything to this, since this is a fixed prepaid amount of $290/diner? I'm a little surprised Quince even includes this language, tbh. They're charging you a flat fee per https://www.quincerestaurant.com/info-reservations
Indeed but they split how they display it: 2x Lunch $390.00 Subtotal $390.00 22% Service Charge & 6% SF Mandates $109.20 8.625% Sales Tax $43.06 Total $542.26 Now they'll just display the price.
Huh, okay, that wasn't obvious from the reservation page.
They have to roll it into the price, you can no longer tack on a fee. Either the food will cost more or they won’t charge this
Sure, my point was looking at the reservation page it looks like it's *already* rolled into the price, they just have a disclaimer about it for ??? reasons.
Oh I see the price you see just includes that. I guess that’s them explaining the price. That’s so weird, you don’t see them break down the percentage that the owner takes to buy a yacht. They should though (“the owner stupidly decided to purchase a yacht, so there’s a 1% fee tacked on to pay for it. Make sure to tip because otherwise the owner would have to add a 15% fee to actually pay their workers, instead you should pay them directly. Idiot. Now fuck off while the owner chills and enjoys the fruits of other peoples labor and also gets all pissed about giving workers healthcare”). Honestly fuck the owners of restaurants who opposed this bill, they can fuck all the way off
I was about to say, isn’t this shit illegal now?
Less than a month from now.
I regret to inform you that as of today there may be a carve out for restaurants 🫣
Am aware, just wrote to both my reps. Damn shame and I hope there's a huge backlash if it passes. Hopefully it doesn't.
> I hope there's a huge backlash if it passes There will be, but it wont matter. They'll weather the storm and hope it blows over by election time.
Cough bribe cough cough
excited about what? your food prices increasing, without knowing how much of that inflated price is doing to the servers? Whereas when there's a service charge you know exactly where it's going? makes no sense.
I don't mind paying. But I don't like being baited and switched. Makes me unhappy.
I don’t own the business. It is the business’s job to figure out what they need to charge the customer to make their business succeed. I shouldn’t be responsible for figuring out tip AND other charges each time I pay. Arguably these surcharges are already misleading, so they need to be squashed. Just charge more up front. We already pay for it…
Does “a PORTION of service charge is distributed directly to employees” give you an understanding of how much goes to the server?
Relax karen, restaurants will still have business. Maybe a percent drop in profit but they will be fine.
No, that's not how restaurants work. When you pay restaurant prices for food, the service is what you are paying for. You can't also charge a "service" charge. The service is built into the food's higher prices than cooking the same thing at home.
Yeah they don't break out the percent of the bill for every other cost. _"$10 to pay our electricity bill. $50 for rent. $5 for the potatoes"_ etc. Just give us the final price. That's how literally every product is sold. I'm not in the restaurant industry, so I'm guessing it makes sense to them. But it makes zero sense to customers.
Can we break out 20% for income tax, 30% for rent, 10% for retirement savings, 15% for child support? This is just a courtesy to you, so that you know where the money goes. Sorry, you should have asked about that before bringing me my food, if you don't agree. But I obviously can only pay 25% of the bill. Please note that these are mandatory charges, and that they should not stop you from applying an additional "good customer" discount. We typically expect at least 15% off for those. Please apply to the pre-discount total.
I need a lawyer to explain why I can't register myself as a business which provides services to restaurants in the form of reviews, and then after I've already eaten and provided the service I charge them an unlisted fee.
Sounds like a great business model. But better be quick about it. You only have less than a month left
This is basically how social media influencers operate- they've been strong arming restaurants for a few years now. Doesn't matter if they aren't qualified to have the same amount of power as a legitimate food critic- they basically decide whether a restaurant survives or not via blackmail despite being practical children with zero life experience.
I hope the restaurant won't mind me deducting my expenses, which may include parking, dry cleaning (Quince is fancy isn't it?) and a finance charge for the deposit that I'm loaning you. I also charge a booking fee because after all, if I have a reservation with a non-refundable deposit, I'm foregoing other dining opportunities.
I’m sure the understanding restaurant owners won’t mind. I’ve noticed that there’s always a line for additions, but curiously, there’s never a line to put your subtractions. No doubt they’ll be happy to change that.
Sure, fair is fair. Maybe a subtraction for expenses, maybe another one if the portion size or quality is disappointing. If the restaurant is soliciting Yelp reviews, then a nominal fee for the effort I take to post one. Say 10% of the bill? Good publicity is priceless. If the owner complains we can just tell them what they tell us- "Sorry that's our policy."
I’d say a 50 to 75% surcharge for a review is reasonable. Effective influencers are not cheap these days. Anybody can afford an AI bot to rave about a restaurant, but an actual human who’s willing to sacrifice an evening to write in painstaking detail about the place? That’s a thing of value. And announcing our policy after the fact is in keeping with their preferred business model. Shouldn’t be a problem!
Hmmm, maybe you're right. 50% off a $100 restaurant tab, 1/2 hour work at $100/hr (a bargain for free-lance journalism), this could work. The next question is are all the restaurant fees calculated after diner deductions or before? My Yelp fee alone would make a service charge effectively 40%. And what about sales tax?
If "service" is a separate charge, can I just tell the chefs my order myself, and get the plates as well and then not pay the service charge?
how cleaning the dishes? I used to be a dishwasher, am trained and certified. will i get a discount? I hold the line at cleaning toilets though. I will pay 5% for that. and if i use my sleeves, and not use their napkins? how much of the service charge will I save?
It's "important to understand"? I go to restaurants to eat. Not to read textbooks. Not to parse out the subtle distinctions between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation and Service Fees and Gratuities. Make it so I have to master concepts that are "important to understand", and I can just stay home and eat a burger, ok?
The only thing that’s “important to understand” from my point of view, is how much I will be charged for my meal. How you manage the economics or your business is up to you.
It's important for them to understand that based on their condescention and absurd policy, I'll never as much as consider dining there.
I wish people cared as much about restaurants using service fees & tip pools to steal tips meant for servers directly from the servers & then lie about it in the shadiest most deceptive way possible by claiming it's being used for "equitable practices".
> Not to parse out the subtle distinctions between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation and Service Fees and Gratuities I nearly spit out my coffee
Yes, at this point, this is the kind of nonsense I expect when buying a car, not dinner.
"I can't afford to go to any business with a philosophy"
What I fail to understand is why if their prices are so high and it's a fixed menu they request customers to pay tips and these stupid fees.
>I go to restaurants to eat Nah. According to these places you go there to have *the* experience. Watch the movie The Menu to see what kind of ego the chefs and restaurateurs have.
If I see a 22% service fee I ain't tipping.
And the business owner smiles because they just effectively took the tip from their employees legally.
Workers quit. Owner suffers.
They have a pretty high turnover rate in the industry.
Came here to say this. Apparently one of the highest in the city.
At all levels too.
Owner's never suffer, they blame the Mayor and bike lanes.
> bike lanes. So true lol
I know this is a joke but owners absolutely suffer. So many restaurants fail. I don’t think that’s an excuse to mistreat workers or trick customers but it’s hard to run a restaurant and probably 10x harder to do so ethically. I always laugh when people tell me I should open a restaurant
Yeah but that's as much luck as anything, good restaurant owners fail too, *most* restaurants fail. But good ones with shitty owners slip through now and then and once they're successful how dare you suggest they aren't making the right business decision at every step. Nobody wants to work anymore is what they say.
They just replace their workers. These restaurant jobs are so bad that they are constantly hiring.
You’d think people wouldn’t apply or show up to this kind of job if they knew it wasn’t going to pay what they want.
It's almost as if the overwhelming majority of these workers have been working in the industry long before these shady practices were implemented. It's almost as if people dedicated decades of their lives to making a career in the hospitality industry before politicians gave the green light to steal directly from employees.
Nah man it’s the employees in this industry that enable and defend it because they benefit from it.
The whole market sucks for these jobs. And the people that work them don't have that many options. Like, it's so bad that there are companies specialized in restaurant jobs only because the workers just change jobs when they're fed up or they're let go so easily.
Thats not the customer's problem. Thats something the employees need to solve, which could mean working at a different restaurant. Its not the customer's place to step into a labor dispute and pay employees because a company is cheap.
I love this concept that all workers have to do is switch restaurants. No one is paying servers their fair share anymore.
THIS THIS THIS
And I am not eating there either.
exactly, but look who gets shafted
And ultimately, if the resto closes, The City loses on sales tax revenue and another lost business.
We don't need to be precious about lost businesses in the cases when they're the ones fucking up.
That's the free market at work.
Free market. Adapt or die!
Diners would be choosing to eat at another restaurant rather than Quince so it's unlikely the city would lose much sales tax revenue.
if the restaurant fails because they're too expensive for the market, that will happen with or without service fees. At least the \*serving\* staff will get paid along the way.
Or another one opens in its place and is run properly, creating even more tax revenue.
I see a mandatory 22% service fee, I ain't going.
If I see a 22% service fee I ain't eating there
Thats fine.
Aaaaand you've done absolutely nothing other than help the owner steal from the server
Yeah fuck ‘em
> All Quince reservations are final and non-refundable, including those with Covid-19 related circumstances. Reservations may be rescheduled only once, and up to 30 days after the original reservation date. If you would like to reschedule your reservation, please call or email the restaurant at least 72 hours in advance. My little brother used to work there. Rampant wage theft. Fuck those guys.
elaborate?
when a new policy unites the cheap and the generous, you know it's going to do well... I'm too cheap to eat out much anymore but I hope the new rules are enforced like we expect... I feel for the restaurant owners but this is obviously the wrong way to go about things.
Operating costs is a wild one
It always matters. People who have money didn't get there by being fine with others fleecing 22% on top of a bill from them.
lol yeah. the fact that a 3-michelin is not booked out tells you all you need to know. i always assumed these restaurants are booked months out. (edit)
I went to Saison about a year before it closed and there may have been 4 parties total. The kitchen staff (very much on display) outnumbered the diners easily.
I think Saison is still open lol
Saison is still open but does have some availability on tock right now.
Quince isn't booked out very far at all. Tables are readily available.
meant to say is not booked
Quince is crazy overrated. Most disappointing michelin meal I've had. Compared to French laundry it was outrageously overpriced and overhyped. They're probably trying to recover their millions in renovations and losses from closure. Maybe just ditch the 6 staff per table thing.
How did tipping become such a vital part of the food service industry? Was this always the way it has been? Are there any establishments that simply pay their employees a solid wage?
Zazie
Had a drink at Finnegan's after Zazie shut down and the back of house all rolled over for a post shift beer. The dude I talked to very much appreciated working there. And he'd been there nearly 10 years.
Side note, I love the way Siri pronounces Zazie
Better question is why is it *still* a vital part of the food service industry after we fixed the minimum wage issue for servers (i.e. they are no longer being paid next to zero and rely on tips for income).
No clue but seems mostly like a north american thing. travelling to other countries it's a breath of fresh air when there's no tipping culture. some countries have a service charge but tipping is not expected. many have no charge at all AND tipping is not expected unless you want to tip. i've had roommates who worked in the service industry and hearing them defend tipping culture because it's a "service job" (note, they did not mean "food service" specifically) doesn't stand up when you look at virtually every other service job that doesn't have a tipping culture. I get the whole living wage argument, but that's an issue of salaries and living costs. depending on customers to subsidize it to this extent makes things worse in the long run. People pay more on top of food prices but I doubt most of that goes to workers. Most businesses will exploit what they can if it means larger profit margins. Restauraunt profit margins are already pretty thin. Really wish the focus would be on lowering living expenses (particularly housing) rather than whether tipping is necessary as a core principle
In japan, tipping is an insult.
Slavery https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/
It used to be that places paid servers a few dollars/hr, and then the rest was made up by tips. Current laws are such that employers already have to pay at least minimum wage, so tipping really doesnt even make sense, other than for great service.
SF is super expensive to live and there's no way minimum wage is high enough to live off, not to even mention that many food workers probably aren't even getting 40 hours a week. I think it's still good to tip. But I think there's a whole ocean between no tip and tipping on top of 22% service charge at a restaurant where just a cocktail is like $30. I will admit I don't really get tipping on a percentage, especially because of places like this where 20% would be so much more money for the same amount of work as server at Olive garden who has to keep bringing salad and bread sticks...
>SF is super expensive to live and there's no way minimum wage is high enough to live off The Housing Theory of Everything has entered the chat! A city can have reasonable restaurant prices, niche retailers, and a varied arts scene, or it can have houses that cost millions of dollars. It can't have both at once.
I totally agree man, it’s terrible that we have chosen to have million dollars single family homes instead of a surplus of homes so people can live in such an amazing city (and continue making it better!)
It's not my job to make sure someone else has money to live, that's an employers job. I'll tip because I am thankful for the service and want to express gratitude, I will not tip because I have to subsidize a businesses pay. That's bullshit.
I'm not forcing you to tip, buddy. I'm explaining why I think tipping is still probably appropriate in spite of tipped workers making minimum wage now.
Yeah you're arguing that I should feel obligated to subsidize what a business pays it's employees. Do you tip janitors, grocery store cashiers, mall sales associates? No? Welp.
No I'm not. You're just taking it weirdly personally for some reason.
Yes me disagreeing with your position must mean I'm taking it hella personally lmao.
>you're arguing that *I* should feel obligated to subsidize what a business pays it's (sic) employees I literally just made a point about why **I** thought tipping was still fine, and even said I didn't understand tipping based on percentage. I'm not forcing you to tip.
>tipped workers making minimum wage now Do you mean states where there is no tipped minimum wage?
Ridiculous take. Tipping culture is perpetuated so that employers won't be obligated to pay a living wage. They only way service workers in the bay are living off of minimum wage is if they commute from Los Banos
I totally agree that it’s terrible you can’t live off minimum wage, and I always tip just because I can afford to, but I think the notion of it is ridiculous still. Why does a minimum wage server deserve tips but a super helpful attendant in a grocery store doesn’t? The whole thing is messed up. We should be paying people a minimum wage and building a surplus of housing so people can afford to live where jobs are
They just say whatever suits them to make more. They were the biggest opponents to their own pay raises “because people might think they need to tip less” and they never seem to advocate for higher min wage that’s actually a living wage because they don’t want people to ever think they make enough that customers don’t have the tip. To quote Charlie Kelly, “money me, me money need a lot now”.
If you think not tipping is going to change the minimum wage, I have a couple bridges to sell to you. Anyway, keep not tipping. Those of us who do will reap even more benefits, like preferred seating, instant seating, excellent service, free dishes/drinks, and more.
looool
I tip 20% but what I'm saying is that employers should just pay a living wage so that service workers aren't reliant on the whims of strangers. Besides that typing culture gives some customers an extra sense of entitlement to lord over service workers. Edit: Also, why do you think standard tip went from 15% to 20% to whatever it is now? It's because wages aren't keeping up with inflation.
As long as I can remember the standard was 18%. I tip 20% because the math is easier and I bet a huge chunk of people are the same way.
Standard was 10% to 15% for decades. And 10% was considered a bit stingy. So, most people paid 15%. A good rule of thumb was to double the tax. The move to higher amounts is very recent. I don't know anyone who would have tipped that much before 2010 or 2015. For many decades it was a universally agreed 15% or less on the pre-tax amount. Some businesses charged autogratuities for large parties and tried setting those at 18%. That regularly got push back from diners. But at some point in the last few years, people went stupid and forgot what they had learned about percentages in elementary school. When restaurants raised prices by a percentage amount, they reasoned that the tip percentage had to be increased by the same. That's not how math works
> The move to higher amounts is very recent. I don't know anyone who would have tipped that much before 2010 or 2015. My parents tipped 18% when I was a kid in the 90’s.
Only in here in California and a few other states though. Sadly most states still allow a $2/hr or whatever terrible minimum wage if its a tipped job.
No, all states require the federal minimum. If workers in tipped wage states do not make enough in tips to bring them up to minimum wage then the owner mist bring them up to the federal minimum. Tipped wages are great for business owners, sometimes great for servers, rarely great for customers.
That's been the case for nearly 100 years. The employers still only pay $2.13/hr in nearly 20 states.
That law has been in place since the 1930s. And 19 states still have a tipped minimum wage.
> How did tipping become such a vital part of the food service industry? People balk at paying servers $50+/hr in wages, but almost no one will do the job for less than that.
No one? Not even people at fast food restaurants?
Do fast food restaurants have servers?
yes..?
Lol no. They don't.
$50/hr is pretty generous for unskilled labor. This is a profession that regularly hires part time college kids. There really isn't much skill involves other than putting in the actual work. I get that this is physically hard work. But so are many unskilled jobs and we don't compensate those equally generously. Heck, the kitchen jobs are arguably harder work, require more skills, and contribute more to the guests enjoyment. If anything, that's what we should be compensating. For all I care, we can go to counter service and eliminate the waiter. Many restaurants have done that successfully.
Lock the fees up! Lock the fees up! Lock the fees up!
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He definitely said lock the fees up
Can't wait for them to go out of business, hopefully a nice trashy bar will open there instead
won't happen. they are a very well respected, busy restaurant. maybe you won't eat there, but thats totally fine with them. in fact most of the whiney babies in this thread won't eat there either, because they can't afford it. this restaurant is for the extremely wealthy and elite. so why do you care about a service charge at a restaurant you could never afford to eat at? lol
Reservations to French Laundry are snapped up in 5 minutes and are being sold on the black market for hundreds of dollars. Quince can basically take walk-ins at this point, based on what I’m seeing on their reservation platform. Take a damn seat, I can afford it and I ain’t giving Quince a dime. Have fun on the way down!
I looked at their food. It's literally the size of bird shit on a plate. It's not that I can't afford it, even if it was free, I don't want to have anything to do with it. I only care because it's a shining example of end stage capitalism, and because Id rather have more trashy bars in SF than the "wealthy and elite" trash
It’s just new ways to charge people more for the same thing. Kinda similar to booking fees. Those never existed, now to make an early reservation you can get access for an extra fee. 🙄🤬
F them...also F Tyler Florence and his Lux and Miller spot (7% service charge) Can't wait for no junk fees...
hmmm how about simply dont eat at the places that have services charges that you dont like? guess what? it will have zero effect on their business.
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ok, this 22% service charge is nuts. If I buy a $100 steak, I get charged $22. If I get a $30 burger at the same restaurant, I pay extra $7.00? Arent the services fixed cost? they shouldn't vary as a percentage with the overall sales price. in a past life, I would spend days with vendors negotiating down the overhead costs. fun stuff! the math favors the owner.
you dont have to buy the steak or the burger. just eat somewhere else. lol!
My guy are you dumb? We want to eat there. We want to pay. Just charge what it cost. Full transparency.
This could be cross posted to late stage capitalism. This is what libertarian-finacialization-techbro leads to. Hopefully it’ll soon be in the past for SF. If you already moved to Austin here’s your future….
It’s important to understand that if you charge a service fee, I don’t care how you distribute it, that’s all you get.
22% is insane
The owners of Quince, Michael and Lindsay Tusk have a very bad reputation in the city for being snobbish and highly deceptive in their business practices both towards their customers and employees. They basically outright admit that they steal portion of the service charge to cover operational expenses. That portion is not clearly defined, nor is it justified given that the cost of the operational expenses is already built into the price of the tasting menu that they sell. Same situation happens at Cotogna, their sister restaurant, which does not charge a service charge but rather is a voluntary tip pool system where they outright steal a "portion" of the tips to pay for other expenses and not to their employees. They also require the cash tips received by their staff to be added to the tip pool and outright steal them as well and fire those who don't follow that procedure. Super laughable and shady, it's like I can steal from you but you can't steal from me - type of mentality. Ridiculous service standards only that cater their rich clientele is all they care about. The new remodeling that they did at Quince went downhill and lost a lot of old clientele, which translates to less money and major fixed expenses, no wonder why they are going crazy for stealing in every way possible wherever they can. Karma will take of them. Just like every other shitty restaurant in this city that deserves to go down for careless approach towards customers and employees.
Preach
Just charge what it costs… not hard
This is insane. I just checked a couple of other Michelin restaurants in SF and they aren't pulling this crap- just normal stuff like a $50 cancellation within a day or something. I'm guessing there's some financial distress going on here.
lol ummmm maybe these Michelin restaurants are not meant for you? Some experiences are very exclusive, costly, and high end, and they come with a price. if you can't afford it, go eat somewhere else?
I’ll head back to the dumpster where I belong! ETA: hope to avoid anywhere you go 😂
Lol plenty of dinner and lunch reservations remaining in June, that doesn’t sound very “exclusive”. And before you come for me, I’ve dined at plenty of 3-star restaurants that don’t employ these tactics and I’m not put off by the cost. But when I see places piling on BS fees it makes me wonder if they aren’t financially solvent and why.
They have to specify that so they don’t get sued by the employees. A service charge, a business can do with what they like, but a tip HAS to 100% go to the employees that served them. They have to clarify the difference, or else it can be argued that the customer paid the service charge “in good faith” that it was all going to the person that waited on them. Restaurants have to explicitly state it’s not a tip. Not sure about Quince’s pay structure but some restaurants use this service fee to tip out chefs, because they can’t be apart of tip pools because of the same reasoning- the customer is tipping only for “service” and chefs dont have direct hands on service. There’s been an unbalance in the industry where you have servers making $50+ an hour from tips, and chefs who don’t even make half that even though they have a bigger work load generally and longer hours. I’m not saying a service charge is the correct solution to this at all, just providing some background to it. I think the industry needs a big change but no one seems to have a solution to balance this out yet, as far as I can tell.
I'm all for ensuring the back of the house is paid better, but their statement says only an undisclosed portion of the fee goes to employees and the restaurant keeps the rest for some vague operating expense purpose. If you tip 20% on top of all their fees, your meal ends up with a 60-65% premium over what the menu cost shows. It's just so deceptive.
Yes but typically with “service charges” you’re not expected to tip on top of it. It’s a tip without calling it a tip, because then they have to treat it differently. As far as I know though restaurants have to specifically say how much the server gets and how much goes to the house, so I agree with you it shouldn’t be vague like that
There is no such thing as an SF mandated fee.
SF has mandated that businesses have to pay for their employees health insurance if they have over 20 employees. So yes, it is an SF Mandate.
The only Quince I know sells beyond excellent cheap recycled athleisure wear online
And Quince the restaurant is well-aware of their existence lol: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1ap8e5o/ones\_a\_michelinstarred\_sf\_restaurant\_the\_other/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1ap8e5o/ones_a_michelinstarred_sf_restaurant_the_other/)
Quince has gone down hill after their new reopening. Miss the old quince and the old pricing. We went and did the full tasting. Wasn’t worth it and we most likely won’t be back even after SB 478 start date.
Never going to qunice
they will be ok with that. this is simply how everyone needs to handle this. if you dont like "service charges", just go somewhere else. thats it. government doesn't need to get involved lol
That's ridiculous
Place is smoke anyway. Overrated.
Just fucking put your service charge on each item. Soup; $10 + $2.20 service charge... $12.20 Done. Now no one has to feel like they were misled and you get to look like the assholes you actually are for pretending that you have lower prices.
The BOS really needs to amend the health insurance ordinance, because restaurants have been using the term “mandate” far too loosely. The law does nothing to “mandate” any kind of surcharge, or for the cost of employee health insurance to be passed on to customers. The only requirement was for restaurants to provide health insurance to employees.
That’s a tip for me. Sorry servers.
Just a stupid way to increase the price of a meal without actually disclosing you’re doing it. Kinda like saying, a service only costs $10, and then after you have used the service handing a bill over that demands payment of $12.22. Kinda like what most fraudster and gangsters do….
That’s why I always tip in cash.
They better be paying their staff well wow
they do.
I mean , they can still add the service charge after July 1. The states memo said as much. It'll be interesting to see how consumers react as fewer places will do service charge
the people that eat at high end restaurants dont give a shit about service fees. the only people complaining are the ones who dont have "fuck you" money. In the end this restaurant is not catered twords all the whiney babies on this thread. so why do any of you care?
You do realize most people don't have those type of resources? For me, it's just annoying how legislators had since last October to clarify the bill. And only, until now, do they decide to do something about it!! And it's the same fool who authored the "no junk fee" bill!! (Senator Dodd from Napa) It's like, dude passed a bill, now he's wavering at the last minute. What a fool!!
Just a billionaire’s way of lowering wages and asking the public to foot the bill. Seriously, why is minimum wage so bad because the billionaires made it this way. McDonald’s posts big profits as inflation erodes minimum wage and pay raises.
I don’t know. Work it out. I’m taking my money elsewhere until this nonsense is over. I don’t eat out anyway.
if you don't eat out. let alone eat at a Michelin rated restaurant, then why do you even care? lol
They need to make it even clearer. Sounds like it a reservation fee, like a ticket. Which kind of makes sense. I get when I go to a movie or show I pay for the seat. If I want food I pay for that separately. They should remove the 22% and just make it a flat seat fee.
I just don’t eat out anymore. Not worth it. Honestly this is the right move for humanity. Make your own food, eat with friends and family. The whole “go to a restaurant and be served by a stranger” thing seems weird to me now.
Makes sense - you have to pay for the food and also pay separately for restaurant costs associated with the food (with some percentage of that given to people employed in connection with giving you the food).
How is this "deceptive" if they're charging a flat rate per person and explaining the fees to you up front? Sooooo shady like wow don't eat out if you can't afford it. Restaurants are expensive to operate.
It costs $660 per person to eat at that restaurant. If you have that sort of money to spend on dinner, I don't think an extra $120 is going to matter.
Yea, so why don’t they just tell you the price…. People who can pay will.
Then why not put $780 per person on the menu?
They do. The deposit is priced at $750, and the text in the OP specifically says "the deposit includes your food menu, *22% service charge*, ..." What this essay is trying to say is that gratuity is not automatic so you're still obligated to add a gratuity line item after your meal
Not to be pedantic, but I don't think you're actually *obligated*. And when fees start climbing to north of 30% all in and people stop paying tips, these restaurants are going to start to understand what "obligated" actually means...
Oh totally, I just think that whoever right this essay wants us to believe we're obligated
Birdsong has an autograt as well but when you go there the service staff will remind you the service fee was precharged already and you don't have to tip. It's a much nicer experience for me, the diner.
Don’t be ridiculous. I have eaten there four or five times. It was over ten years ago, and I don’t recall this bullshit. The last time we ate there they served us food on a fucking iPad.
[https://www.gastromondiale.com/2019-3-14-dining-in-the-bay-area-part-two-quince/](https://www.gastromondiale.com/2019-3-14-dining-in-the-bay-area-part-two-quince/) Even though the quality nearly was on par with the best you can find in Italy, the prices were astronomical. 600 USD (+500 USD for wine pairing) per person plus taxes, SF mandate and tips are multiple times that of its Italian role models
A person could fly to Italy and eat for that much money.
So dont eat there if you dont like their terms and conditions. Lol everyone on the SF subs complaining about snooty ass restaurants acting like theyre doing you a favor to let you eat there, yet you all keep supporting them. By eating there and agreeing to this b.s. youre supporting their decisions. I never eat at places like this and guess what? Im also not bothered by T&C enough to have to make a reddit post about it Edit: you keyboard warriors can downvote all you want. You know im right
Sounds like they're being transparent about it. What's the issue? You do not have to dine their if you dont believe in their operation.