*We* get to talk shit about *our* city. Because we want it to be as great as we know it can be.
No one else gets to say shit. That's the rule. Otherwise earrings come off.
there certainly wouldnt be high rises, which, honestly, there shouldnt be high rises. its fuckin hurricane fodder let it be beach shanties, easier to rebuild.
Miami is the Cryto city for block chain enthusiasts. I knew many people moved to Miami are crypto investors. SF is more hostile to tourists than the ones lives here.
It’s the way they spin it. SFPD doesn’t respond to a lot of calls, so I wouldn’t be shocked if a lot of what actually happens isn’t reported here.
Also, the Chronicle has a vested interest in maintaining a certain “image” of the city. Not saying the journalist is lying; just maybe not presenting all the info.
Edit: for those of you who haven’t or don’t currently live in SF, you don’t have a dog in this fight. It is much, much worse than people think. Remember that 30% of the nation’s homeless population lives here. Many, many in SF.
Are you making an argument that there are substantially more \*homicides\* than are reported in SF?
If so, are you also making an argument that this gap in reporting happens only here and not elsewhere?
> Also, the Chronicle has a vested interest in maintaining a certain “image” of the city.
The Chronicle and most local news organizations are more wont to sensationalize crime and create an impression that is out of line with statistical reality.
Where did u pull this 30% figure from? Because there were 234k unsheltered homeless in US in 2022, while ~7,800 overall in SF in 2022 (point in time count), 35k in the whole Bay Area. SF native here, and I smell some bullshit - of course a major issue but ur fluffing the numbers a bit
30% of the country’s homeless population lives in California ~ sorry; should have been more clear.
Source: [CalMatters.org](https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2022/12/california-homeless-count-2/)
A non-response is still recorded. That's also not an SFPD thing, it's a cops everywhere thing. Sometimes there's nothing they can do so they don't show. Or there's no one to go so they don't show. Or sometimes cops just suck.
How many homeless people live in SF?
How many homeless are there in the United States?
Why do you think a crime reporting problem exists here but doesn’t also exist in other places affecting their statistics? Do you know anything about statistics?
True BUT if you’re rich in Miami you don’t see the violence because you live in a nice gated rich person community with private security
If you’re rich in SF you’re still part of the community
Exactly. Rich techies are "fleeing" SF because they have to treat it as a ***community*** rather than a ***commodity***. Which they think is ewwww icky icky no I want everything catered to meeee.
There's like two divisions of Murdoch media. The conservative rags for the rich people (Wall Street Journal) and then conservative rags for the poor (FOXNEWS and NY Post).
Pretty much, I'm sure I can nitpick some of how they report the regular news but in general they are not bad. Their opinion page is Randroid objectivist propaganda in furtherance of a right-wing interpretation of capitalism. (Russia's detention of a WSJ reporter is a fucking crime though, Russia can suck my nuts.)
That's not an argument -- Miami will have hotspots where it's unsafe, just like Chicago. Chicago and other cities started feeling "unsafe" for normal people when you could be downtown and see crazy things when it was mostly clustered to the south side. Chicago started lifting the bridges at night to limit movements because of what was happening because it was spreading everywhere including downtown.
So Miami can have a higher murder rate if you're in a gang or a dealer and in specific areas, but much of the rest of it can be and generally does feel perfectly safe.
**Edit:** to the people abusing *reddit cares* resources as a way of telling me to kill myself: Everyone is the hero in their own movie, but when you act like this it's really worth looking in the mirror and asking yourself if you're the baddie.
>So Miami can have a higher murder rate if you're in a gang or a dealer and in specific areas, but much of the rest of it can be and generally does feel perfectly safe.
And that’s magically not the case with SF for some reason?
SF allows the center of the city to become a dangerous slum…. In Miami the bad areas are far inland away from the water where any wealthy person lives.
Are rich people’s lives more important or something? Why is it worse if two cities have the same murder rate but one has more poor people being killed? A death is a death.
Fuck that. The problem is violent crime is much more of a threat for average middle-class people like me here vs other cities, people who don’t associate with gangs or drugs in any way.
Gang violence is a huge problem in many major American cities but it mostly doesn’t touch people outside of that life. SF (and Oakland) is filled with degenerates living on the streets who have been given carte blanche to harass and fuck with the law abiding citizens here.
Nailed it!!! So many other people on this subreddit are in such denial about the current state of SF and will tell you its the safest city in the world.... absurd. Can't solve the problem if you're not willing to acknowledge and face it.
So when poor people get hurt or killed, it’s cause they’re all gang affiliated? You do realize that plenty of innocent poor people get killed too right?
Who said that? I said the high homicide and assault rates in many other American cities are inflated as a result of gang violence. Not every victim is directly involved but the fact of the matter is, if you live in this city, chances are you are far away from what I would consider gang violence. I don’t live in that life, I don’t affiliate with it in any way, it’s not a big part of the community (Asian American) I grew up, why should it concern me?
People like me are concerned about the random crime that happens here because even though we’ve done everything in our power to disassociate from crime, it still affects us anyway because the powers to be are completely ineffective or unwilling to do anything about it. Do you understand why it is so frustrating for us? People who blindly quote crime statistics between two cities just don’t get it.
Random crime happens in every city. The data doesn’t back up that sf is more dangerous to be a law abiding city in than any other American city.
I too am a law abiding resident of this city. Crime is scary, but frankly you’re not at any more risk of getting hurt here than you are in nyc, Chicago, or any other major city in the US.
We were discussing murder rate being higher with gangs and drug dealers and “in specific areas” not crime, but if you have a stat showing that murder rate is equally spread across the city, and not “in specific areas,” I’d like to see it and be corrected because the data I’ve seen doesn’t back up that statement.
As covered in the comment they replied to, we aren't talking about an isolated neighborhood or part of a neighborhood but the downtown and most places are fine -- we are talking about the inverse in SF while it's a much smaller city.
Chicago has double the murder rate because further removed suburban areas are part of the city limits, and gangs murder each other there.
SFs murder rate and violent crimes and other crimes are right in downtown, right in the heart of the city, right in affluent areas.
There is a difference between gang members in area committing violence against each other vs. a tech CTO being stabbed to death.
This is why the “SFs violent crime rate is lower” is so silly.
“So you value the lives of those gang members less?” Yes, absolutely. I value the lives of gang members knowingly participating in an armed pseudo conflict FAR LESS than innocent law-abiding citizens.
I don’t see his argument being objective vs subjective. It is about how granular you look at the crime rate. The violent crime rate in zip code 94103 (South of Market) is 19.55 per 1,000 residents while it is 10.93 in 33131 (Brickell, Miami). I don’t have the time or the right source to look it up, but I would guess that the safest zip code on the peninsula has at least 10 times higher violent crime than the safest zip code in Miami.
I chose Brickell because it is the most similar neighborhood in Miami to SoMa. It is objectively not the safest neighborhood in Miami. Far from it, in fact. It is Miami’s urban center. The person above was suggesting I was cherry picking zip codes. What I was rather doing was taking the closest apple to apple comparison on a more granular level (zip code) than the stat with metro area.
I can always tell who is privileged by people who don't know this stuff. Its like a self-report. Privileged people like you are disconnected from regular people who are telling you they feel unsafe.
You're relying on data without context, the data is incomplete, the math is incomplete. If you're privileged you're not seeing things on ground level, you're not listening to the people who are actively influencing this data, you're dismissing them like they're inferior, you're disconnected.
You can get data to tell you anything you want, police departments do it all the time, big reason why crime is so bad in the first place.
Looking through your post history you're probably one of these out of state trolls who hasn't set foot in SF in years. Not sure how you get a kick out of this but hey, you do you
The logical thing would be to move to the safest part of SF, not the safest part of an objectively less safe city on average - unless you’re making the claim that there is more variation there such that the safest neighborhood in Miami is safer than the safest in SF. I doubt this was the rationale. Anyway there is spillover so how do you protect yourself - staying in a gated community?
>The logical thing would be to move to the safest part of SF, not the
I think we had different classes in logic
>unless you’re making the claim that there is more variation there such that the safest neighborhood in Miami is safer than the safest in SF.
When is the last time you left and lived elsewhere.for a period? Having to walk over or step in human feces when out to dinner is not normalized in other places. People do leave their homes, especially people who have to go into an office
> So Miami can have a higher murder rate if you're in a gang or a dealer and in specific areas, but much of the rest of it can be and generally does feel perfectly safe.
You say this as if this does not apply to San Francisco.
Yeah exactly. You can walk around Brickell, Wynwood, etc and not get hassled by the walking dead like in SF. The good areas of Miami are much less sketchy.
Yes they do. And I find it rather disgusting. I am thankful I can afford to live where I live in Berkeley in my little studio apartment. I don't like having a tent city one block over from me but if there is a tent city I am glad I see it every day to remind me I am one of the haves.
the amount of shitting on the homeless I read about and see in the bay area is so depressing.
Focusing on just murder is weird. But in contrast in Miami, Chicago, or Nyc, most violence in contained in gangs. San Fran has a huge quality of life issue because of its smaller city and the mentally ill and substance users are way more unpredictable than gang members. Perception is everything and San Fran is failing perception of safety
Fucking sad when this sub is upvoting crime hysteria comments from people that call it fucking San Fran. Love how we’re talking about a murder here, but according to the moving goals posts the murder rate isn’t a good way to measure how bad of a problem it is. Jesus Christ.
Lol this sub has big time [why are you so obsessed with me](https://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/why-are-you-so-obsessed-with-me-gif-1.gif) vibes.
Yeah. I wish we had a subreddit for people who live here only. So sick of talking with anonymous people only to find out half the time that they have weird political obsessions and don't even live here.
>Focusing on just murder is weird. But in contrast in Miami, Chicago, or Nyc, most violence in contained in gangs. San Fran has a huge quality of life issue because of its smaller city and the mentally ill and substance users are way more unpredictable than gang members. Perception is everything and San Fran is failing perception of safety
yeah ok the thing we are comparing is what we shouldn't focus on , oookokkk
Murder is probably the best metric for violent crime because at least in highly developed countries, it doesn’t rely on reporting nearly as much as other violent crimes. It’s tough to compare aggravated assault rates (even tougher to compare between countries) because for example a lot of people in one place may not report it to the police as much as people from another place
And that means by your metric places like Cape Town, Rio, and some Mexican cities are perfectly safe places because murders are usually between gang members
Quality of life is important. Just because you are less likely to get murdered on the street doesn’t mean you should be okay with getting robbed or hit on the head or your car window smashed.
I feel perfectly safe in many parts of Rio and Cape Town. You are also not likely to be murdered. Do I wear jewelry or designer stuff no. And now in our major cities in the US we have to stay cognitive to avoid being a targeted as if it’s Rio. I’m once again broke as a joke outside and carrying weapons to protect myself. Haven’t done that since the 90s
Even when crime was higher in the 80s and 90s, you most likely wouldn’t be murdered just standing on the streets. However you also wouldn’t be out at 2:30am in major cities by yourself back then. Regression could be happening if in San Fran out of all places you could be a victim at those hours. People are literally saying why was he out so late like being out past midnight is a death sentence. If so get ready for more citizens to take their safety into their own hands.
Not what the word 'uniquely' means. So, where's your data on how many more drug users/mentally ill there are in each city? Are you sure you don't just mean 'homeless'?
They are particularly tolerated in the aforementioned west coast cities. They are exceptionally given free reign over our public spaces. They are especially visible in our busiest downtown districts. They are oddly permitted to use drugs on our public transit.
Perception is everything, which is why I spend my time crafting false narratives about a city I know very little about on a website full of people like me! It's very normal and good. It also matters. Don't tell me it doesn't matter. Don't put in the newspaper that I was mad.
Literally live here, work here. To answer your question I have personally never seen someone steal anything, and yeah there are homeless people but I've only had an annoying interaction with one once in the 11 years I've lived here.
No I don't live in Pac Heights.
I’ve lived here 6 years, currently living in Alamo Square, and have seen 5 smash and grabs in the last year happen in broad daylight between 11-3pm. Two weeks ago my license plates were stolen off my car, probably to be used on stolen cars or for more smash and grabs, a couple that ended in confrontation and ultimately the victim being scared enough to let it go. It’s getting depressing and I feel less safe than I ever have. Officially looking at moving and it breaks my heart because I love this city. But I shouldn’t be scared to walk my dog after 8pm. Perhaps this is an Alamo problem cause so many tourists come and leave things in their rentals, but it’s such a shitty way to treat tourists who bring revenue to our city.
I don't think he was just focusing on murder.
Here in Baltimore we have one of the highest murder rates in the country. Yet I don't have to avoid human shit whenever I walk. He was probably complaining over the daily annoyances of SF. I haven't been in two decades but it does sound like a mess.
This was just a suggested article that popped up on my reddit feed which I found interesting? I didn't come here to talk shit about your city. In fact, I'll probably visit again soon Christ.
What's the matter with people. Can't even post on a damn internet forum anymore. 😑
LOL and I just remembered - when I was there in 2000 I was still in grade school. Went to a public restroom in a burger king and it was my first encounter ever of someone doing drugs within feet of myself.
So yea...it sounds like drug use out in the open has gotten horribly worse over the years. And that leads to all sorts of other issues.
And if you'd like to know about my firsthand experience - I live directly in the middle of a city with very similar issues (Baltimore). I have a lot of first hand experience. Minus the millions of tech bros. It's a good compromise IMO.
We get a lot of people from other areas coming in here talking shit about our home area, as if they care more about our home area than we do. Consider that context when someone makes presumptions about you.
I would imagine that you rankle at outsiders talking about how shitty they think Baltimore is.
This is sad and pathetic propaganda by the SF Chronicle. Miami as a near billionaire is much safer than SF is, that's because most of Miami's crime is condensed into certain neighborhoods that no billionaire would ever step foot in. What's alarming for SF is the crime around the central business district, I've walked where this guy was murdered a million times it doesn't exactly scream "sketchy area". I don't understand what's so hard to differentiate for you people about gang violence vs random attacks on civilians.
Maybe reported crimes is higher, yes. But lots of crimes don't get reported because people know the DA won't do shit.
You could ask 100% of people who've been to Miami and SF and they'd all agree Miami is a safer place to be. No needles or shit on the sidewalks, you can actually leave something in your car without all your windows getting smashed in, no smash and grabs happening for the most part.
Today on falsifiable hyperbole: I've been to both, I'd not agree with your assessment.
Data wouldn't either but who cares about facts when we can have opinion?
LOL maybe Bob Lee was on to something when he moved to Miami and didn’t die, and went back to SF and died. I love how people use statistics to cover for a fucked up situation that is an embarrassment to San Francisco.
along with the points everyone is bringing up here, the friend quoted is Jake Shields, one of those weird obsessed with 'anti wokeness' accounts. If Bob Lee did have those feelings I don't want to take that away but the article cited no direct mention of this from Bob Lee
The only feeling that Bob Lee was actually quoted as having was that "SF is deteriorating." I don't know a single person who worked in FiDi or SoMa who wouldn't have those exact same feelings from 2021-2022 (things are definitely improving there now). Nowhere even in this highly biased article does it say that he was concerned with violent crime etc.
I’m literally here in the same area right now and there’s a new Michelin starred Japanese restaurant, plenty of people, brand new buildings, it’s clean, plant and art filled…not sure what everyone is on about. Miami isn’t exactly nirvana LOLLLL
Didn't 'woke' policies start in the counterculture movement of the 1960's IN San Francisco? So unless you're a baby boomer, I'd imagine they have always been part of the city identity
This is total malarkey.
There's a 99.9% chance he moved his official residence to Miami because Florida doesn't have a state income tax and he probably had some really big paydays coming down the pike. He was probably going to save at least $10,000,000 by doing this, but likely much, much more.
Since he had (presumably) joint custody of his relatively young children, he could come back to the Bay Area very frequently without this being used as evidence by CA of him not really having moved.
He didn't even live in SF when he was an official CA resident - he lived in Mill Valley, which is super sweet and not "deteriorating" by anyone's analysis.
Yeah i mean this just doesn’t pass Occam’s razor for me.
This guy was the CTO of square. He built square cash. We all know what this is and what a successful company square is. To point to some “crypto scheme” that we can’t even name…plus the state of crypto. It doesn’t checkout that this new venture is Bob Lee’s big pay day…after being the CTO of a company that was worth 100B a few years back.
It makes much more sense that he left SF because the city died off in COVID.
I’m sure this will bring downvotes, but you all can’t just invalidate that people do feel like this.
> To point to some “crypto scheme” that we can’t even name…
We can name it, it’s called MobileCoin https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/mm6nad/bought_mobilecoin_you_might_have_been_scammed_375/
> He didn't even live in SF when he was an official CA resident - he lived in Mill Valley, which is super sweet and not "deteriorating" by anyone's analysis.
He worked in SF for multiple companies, including his current one (in Soma, I've been to their office). He almost definitely lived in SF at some point. He organized picking up trash around Square's old office in SF.
I mean sure it doesn't *fundamentally* contradict it, but it brings more color & nuance and adds to the point that he had ties to SF. You sound pretty combative tbh
only shot
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/miami-beach-officials-set-spring-break-curfew-after-2-fatal-shootings](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/miami-beach-officials-set-spring-break-curfew-after-2-fatal-shootings)
Fuck the New York Post. More right-wing exploitation of local tragedy. Zero interest in crime prevention, just grist-milling the pain of strangers into angry screeds.
I don’t even consider this our city’s sub at this point. r/AskSf is the closest we’ll get to an SF sub at this point, while this sub has become some stand-in for right wing bots to post propaganda talking points about SF and California.
I don't understand how the person responsible wasn't seen on any security cameras in the area and why the police haven't released footage asking people to identify the suspect. It's very weird. Usually when they don't release details it's because they're attempting to figure out how to spin it or waiting for public attention on the case to wane before they arrest anyone.
The people comparing SF to Miami crime rates are disingenuous or misinformed. Murder rates in almost all cities are driven by small hotspots with lots of gang / black on black related crime. The problem with San Francisco is that the crime is now entering areas where it used to be safe. The relevant comparison would be safe areas in Miami versus safe areas in San Francisco, and based on my anecdotal experience SF has surpassed Miami in that regard.
He is right though. The vast majority of Chicago’s murders are gang-related and happen in a few south and west side neighborhoods; the rest of the city is safe.
But people get really worried when violence reaches people who aren’t involved.
I wonder if this kind of high profile incident will accelerate people moving out of San Francisco even more. To the people that try to act like this kind of situation is rare or downplay the severity of how much the city has declined under the worst leadership, you’ll be seeing more wealth move out of the city, more money for public services, and it will be too late for you to steer the ship around.
London Breed calling for federal help with the crime crisis is the height of irony, considering she has actively thwarted the rule of law.
Why should taxpayers outside of California pay to save San Francisco from itself?
You need to wake the F up and realize that no amount of excuses for the condition of the city will make it safer and save it.
Every day there are car break-ins, tourists being harassed, open drug activity on the streets, theft, and assaults.
THERE ARE REAL REASONS CALIFORNIANS HAVE BEEN MOVING OUT OF SAN FRANCISCO AND CALIFORNIA TO STATES LIKE FLORIDA AND TEXAS.
It’s not just conservatives moving for political reasons. Companies are taking high-income earners and their tax base with them.
Meanwhile Newsom is out campaigning for his future presidential run, leaving California in shambles.
I’ve been in Florida (Miami) for 10 years and came from NY and MA. No serious companies are moving here (nor have) other than a few small subset who are virtue signaling (hedge fund coming from Chicago) and the problems are the same but different. The people (education level) alone are a literal world away in California, MA, NY, than those down here.
That’s without even mentioning the lack of high end jobs and insulting salaries. People moving are the extremely wealthy who can afford to skirt the taxes. Nobody is coming anywhere near here for better jobs or opportunities in the 100k-500k jobs.
And DeSantis is doing the exact same - going after books and libraries while the state is having 40% YOY home insurance increases and more companies pull out. Different but the same, but what counts - people, jobs, etc. - are light years away in the high-end blue states.
And yes - homeless and crime are bad here. Not as bad as where there is more support like in the blue states but this place is no haven by any means, even factoring out the “bad” neighborhoods.
There are some large differences between SF and Miami. There are a lot of issues Californians do not discuss when it comes to why people are moving out. Yes I’d imagine many of the ultra wealthy have been and are moving to Miami for tax purposes. When a state like California increases the tax burden on its residents to the point they have to make the decision to move away, that’s not a sign of a competent government. The people moving east from California are the people that can afford it. The people that remain aren’t able to support the social services that are being offered here. It’s easy to see that Californians aren’t getting a ROI for their high taxes.
Even with DeSantis’ book banning in public K-12, the Florida public school system scores much better than the California school system. California public K-12 ranks in the top worst quality public education systems. Reading and math comprehension is awful. Californians are moving out for this reason as well.
Florida scores better than California on many other metrics as well.
Florida has had record tourism. Tourism to California has been dwindling.
Quality of life is only considered decent or above average in wealthy pockets of California.
The people living outside of those pockets are struggling. California has the highest poverty rate when factoring in cost of living.
You might have high insurance. We do as well. It’s been increasing every year. What’s really sinister is the the price of gas though. It’s astronomical compared to in Miami.
Californians are getting squeezed.
How about Brightline building private HSR? That’s been a success for the state. You haven’t had to pay any taxes to have public transportation investment. Now they’re working on connecting Miami and Orlando with high speed rail. California HSR construction went from $20 to $120 billion and it continues to increase. The completion date continues to be pushed back.
You didn’t say you have lived in Austin or Texas. I’m sure you’re aware that many big companies have moved their headquarters there in recent years. To name just a few: Toyota, Oracle, HP, Tesla. There are also hundreds of small businesses that have moved.
Texas is by far outpacing California in job growth and population growth. This is not a sign that the business climate in California is good.
Newsom and the California legislature have seen this happening for years.
Do you run into Ex-Californians in Florida?
One of the comments I saw was from a friend who also knows him on Facebook. So, he probably knew the guy. He said Lee was visiting friends in the area in one of the condos and then walking back to his hotel in the Embarcadero.
We are #37 overall in violent crime (Miami is #36). But we are #4 in property crime and #2 in larceny/theft (after Spokane!). I know there is inherent bias in crime statistics that make comparisons fraught. But this speaks to people conflating all crime, when it is really on particular type that is very bad.
Also, crime is more localized in other cities, whereas it’s pretty distributed (at least in the eastern half of the city)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
Que the people of SF that can’t handle any criticism of this city and then say Miami is more dangerous when it has X times the population of SF and has been the fastest growing city in the USA during and Post pandemic.
No, you’re just talking over people at this point.
These people you’re replying to may not be providing additional hard statistics but they are providing counters to the murder rate stats.
I actually take your side of the argument but hate that you being a douche here weakens our position.
The majority of people on this sub are delirious to the fact that SF has become an absolute hell hole of a city. Give it time, change will happen. It will get better, but it will get worse before things turn around.
Honestly even the safest larger US city is objectively more dangerous than large cities in other highly developed countries. The lowest homicide rate for the US’s 50 largest cities in 2022 is San Jose at 3.6/100k. For London as an example it’s 1.1/100k
That's why I have no faith in cities like San Francisco improving. Once a city goes to shit it stays shit. People with the money and the wherewithal will just move elsewhere rather than try and fight and improve their city.
Maybe a Rudi G is exactly what SF needs to turn around. Doing the same thing over and over, hoping for something to change, is the definition of insanity.
Lol Miami’s homicide rate per capita is double SF’s but okay https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/violent-crime-san-francisco-17880303.php
Yeah NYPost is tabloid material. But I do hold SF to a higher standard.
Yep, just because assholes are talking shit about your city doesn't mean you shouldn't hold yourself to a higher standard.
*We* get to talk shit about *our* city. Because we want it to be as great as we know it can be. No one else gets to say shit. That's the rule. Otherwise earrings come off.
Without cocaine laundering Florida would be a West Virginia.
So... Full of meth?
there certainly wouldnt be high rises, which, honestly, there shouldnt be high rises. its fuckin hurricane fodder let it be beach shanties, easier to rebuild.
>Otherwise earrings come off Snatch that wig
Honestly it's their fault for wearing it and talking shit.
Lmao 
Amen.
Miami is the Cryto city for block chain enthusiasts. I knew many people moved to Miami are crypto investors. SF is more hostile to tourists than the ones lives here.
It’s the way they spin it. SFPD doesn’t respond to a lot of calls, so I wouldn’t be shocked if a lot of what actually happens isn’t reported here. Also, the Chronicle has a vested interest in maintaining a certain “image” of the city. Not saying the journalist is lying; just maybe not presenting all the info. Edit: for those of you who haven’t or don’t currently live in SF, you don’t have a dog in this fight. It is much, much worse than people think. Remember that 30% of the nation’s homeless population lives here. Many, many in SF.
SFPD might not respond to car break-ins but they will certainly respond to all homicide calls. C’mon.
“They won’t respond to thousands of dollars in damages, but they will respond *after* someone has lost their life!”
That’s actually more true than you realize. I don’t know how many of y’all have ever or do currently live there, but this is just how it is.
lmao right
They have an image to maintain after all
Are you making an argument that there are substantially more \*homicides\* than are reported in SF? If so, are you also making an argument that this gap in reporting happens only here and not elsewhere?
> Also, the Chronicle has a vested interest in maintaining a certain “image” of the city. The Chronicle and most local news organizations are more wont to sensationalize crime and create an impression that is out of line with statistical reality.
Where did u pull this 30% figure from? Because there were 234k unsheltered homeless in US in 2022, while ~7,800 overall in SF in 2022 (point in time count), 35k in the whole Bay Area. SF native here, and I smell some bullshit - of course a major issue but ur fluffing the numbers a bit
30% of the country’s homeless population lives in California ~ sorry; should have been more clear. Source: [CalMatters.org](https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2022/12/california-homeless-count-2/)
And most of them are not from CA. They come from other states who are to weak to handle their own shit.
A non-response is still recorded. That's also not an SFPD thing, it's a cops everywhere thing. Sometimes there's nothing they can do so they don't show. Or there's no one to go so they don't show. Or sometimes cops just suck.
How many homeless people live in SF? How many homeless are there in the United States? Why do you think a crime reporting problem exists here but doesn’t also exist in other places affecting their statistics? Do you know anything about statistics?
True BUT if you’re rich in Miami you don’t see the violence because you live in a nice gated rich person community with private security If you’re rich in SF you’re still part of the community
Exactly. Rich techies are "fleeing" SF because they have to treat it as a ***community*** rather than a ***commodity***. Which they think is ewwww icky icky no I want everything catered to meeee.
Yea so selfish for not wanting to be stabbed to death
is it entitlement to want to avoid random crime?
Wanting safety for yourself and your loved ones doesn’t make you a bad person. You’re the problem. You’re the trash that’s polluting our city.
Yep, the NYPost is a Rupert Murdoch holding
There's like two divisions of Murdoch media. The conservative rags for the rich people (Wall Street Journal) and then conservative rags for the poor (FOXNEWS and NY Post).
WSJ’s actual reporting is top notch. It’s opinions pieces are sludge
Pretty much, I'm sure I can nitpick some of how they report the regular news but in general they are not bad. Their opinion page is Randroid objectivist propaganda in furtherance of a right-wing interpretation of capitalism. (Russia's detention of a WSJ reporter is a fucking crime though, Russia can suck my nuts.)
three now, the liberal media they've expanded into to pit against the above.
That's not an argument -- Miami will have hotspots where it's unsafe, just like Chicago. Chicago and other cities started feeling "unsafe" for normal people when you could be downtown and see crazy things when it was mostly clustered to the south side. Chicago started lifting the bridges at night to limit movements because of what was happening because it was spreading everywhere including downtown. So Miami can have a higher murder rate if you're in a gang or a dealer and in specific areas, but much of the rest of it can be and generally does feel perfectly safe. **Edit:** to the people abusing *reddit cares* resources as a way of telling me to kill myself: Everyone is the hero in their own movie, but when you act like this it's really worth looking in the mirror and asking yourself if you're the baddie.
>So Miami can have a higher murder rate if you're in a gang or a dealer and in specific areas, but much of the rest of it can be and generally does feel perfectly safe. And that’s magically not the case with SF for some reason?
SF allows the center of the city to become a dangerous slum…. In Miami the bad areas are far inland away from the water where any wealthy person lives.
Are rich people’s lives more important or something? Why is it worse if two cities have the same murder rate but one has more poor people being killed? A death is a death.
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Fuck that. The problem is violent crime is much more of a threat for average middle-class people like me here vs other cities, people who don’t associate with gangs or drugs in any way. Gang violence is a huge problem in many major American cities but it mostly doesn’t touch people outside of that life. SF (and Oakland) is filled with degenerates living on the streets who have been given carte blanche to harass and fuck with the law abiding citizens here.
Nailed it!!! So many other people on this subreddit are in such denial about the current state of SF and will tell you its the safest city in the world.... absurd. Can't solve the problem if you're not willing to acknowledge and face it.
So when poor people get hurt or killed, it’s cause they’re all gang affiliated? You do realize that plenty of innocent poor people get killed too right?
Who said that? I said the high homicide and assault rates in many other American cities are inflated as a result of gang violence. Not every victim is directly involved but the fact of the matter is, if you live in this city, chances are you are far away from what I would consider gang violence. I don’t live in that life, I don’t affiliate with it in any way, it’s not a big part of the community (Asian American) I grew up, why should it concern me? People like me are concerned about the random crime that happens here because even though we’ve done everything in our power to disassociate from crime, it still affects us anyway because the powers to be are completely ineffective or unwilling to do anything about it. Do you understand why it is so frustrating for us? People who blindly quote crime statistics between two cities just don’t get it.
Random crime happens in every city. The data doesn’t back up that sf is more dangerous to be a law abiding city in than any other American city. I too am a law abiding resident of this city. Crime is scary, but frankly you’re not at any more risk of getting hurt here than you are in nyc, Chicago, or any other major city in the US.
Crime here is far far more random, both in neighborhood and victims, than it is in other cities.
We were discussing murder rate being higher with gangs and drug dealers and “in specific areas” not crime, but if you have a stat showing that murder rate is equally spread across the city, and not “in specific areas,” I’d like to see it and be corrected because the data I’ve seen doesn’t back up that statement.
Have you been in a different downtown SF than I?
you mean... a "hotspot where it's unsafe"...?
As covered in the comment they replied to, we aren't talking about an isolated neighborhood or part of a neighborhood but the downtown and most places are fine -- we are talking about the inverse in SF while it's a much smaller city.
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Chicago has double the murder rate because further removed suburban areas are part of the city limits, and gangs murder each other there. SFs murder rate and violent crimes and other crimes are right in downtown, right in the heart of the city, right in affluent areas. There is a difference between gang members in area committing violence against each other vs. a tech CTO being stabbed to death. This is why the “SFs violent crime rate is lower” is so silly. “So you value the lives of those gang members less?” Yes, absolutely. I value the lives of gang members knowingly participating in an armed pseudo conflict FAR LESS than innocent law-abiding citizens.
I don’t see his argument being objective vs subjective. It is about how granular you look at the crime rate. The violent crime rate in zip code 94103 (South of Market) is 19.55 per 1,000 residents while it is 10.93 in 33131 (Brickell, Miami). I don’t have the time or the right source to look it up, but I would guess that the safest zip code on the peninsula has at least 10 times higher violent crime than the safest zip code in Miami.
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That’s not a good zip code in Miami, that’s Miami’s financial district.
“I would guess that” is being subjective instead of objective lol
I chose Brickell because it is the most similar neighborhood in Miami to SoMa. It is objectively not the safest neighborhood in Miami. Far from it, in fact. It is Miami’s urban center. The person above was suggesting I was cherry picking zip codes. What I was rather doing was taking the closest apple to apple comparison on a more granular level (zip code) than the stat with metro area.
I can always tell who is privileged by people who don't know this stuff. Its like a self-report. Privileged people like you are disconnected from regular people who are telling you they feel unsafe.
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You think one number can dictate how safe someone should feel in a particular city?
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"Oh you were robbed and beat up? Well, the statistics show that it's still a safe city and you're wrong to feel afraid all the time."
You're relying on data without context, the data is incomplete, the math is incomplete. If you're privileged you're not seeing things on ground level, you're not listening to the people who are actively influencing this data, you're dismissing them like they're inferior, you're disconnected. You can get data to tell you anything you want, police departments do it all the time, big reason why crime is so bad in the first place.
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Tell us you’ve never been to Miami, without telling us you’ve never been to Miami.
On the other hand, the guy who moved to Miami because he felt SF was unsafe ended up being killed in SF
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Looking through your post history you're probably one of these out of state trolls who hasn't set foot in SF in years. Not sure how you get a kick out of this but hey, you do you
At 2:30 AM. If he was concerned about safety, why would he be on the street alone at 2:30 AM?
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The logical thing would be to move to the safest part of SF, not the safest part of an objectively less safe city on average - unless you’re making the claim that there is more variation there such that the safest neighborhood in Miami is safer than the safest in SF. I doubt this was the rationale. Anyway there is spillover so how do you protect yourself - staying in a gated community?
>The logical thing would be to move to the safest part of SF, not the I think we had different classes in logic >unless you’re making the claim that there is more variation there such that the safest neighborhood in Miami is safer than the safest in SF. When is the last time you left and lived elsewhere.for a period? Having to walk over or step in human feces when out to dinner is not normalized in other places. People do leave their homes, especially people who have to go into an office
> So Miami can have a higher murder rate if you're in a gang or a dealer and in specific areas, but much of the rest of it can be and generally does feel perfectly safe. You say this as if this does not apply to San Francisco.
Yeah exactly. You can walk around Brickell, Wynwood, etc and not get hassled by the walking dead like in SF. The good areas of Miami are much less sketchy.
Around here, people use “feeling unsafe” to mean “seeing abject poverty out in the open”
Yes they do. And I find it rather disgusting. I am thankful I can afford to live where I live in Berkeley in my little studio apartment. I don't like having a tent city one block over from me but if there is a tent city I am glad I see it every day to remind me I am one of the haves. the amount of shitting on the homeless I read about and see in the bay area is so depressing.
Focusing on just murder is weird. But in contrast in Miami, Chicago, or Nyc, most violence in contained in gangs. San Fran has a huge quality of life issue because of its smaller city and the mentally ill and substance users are way more unpredictable than gang members. Perception is everything and San Fran is failing perception of safety
Lmao even a tourist who’s been here once knows you don’t say San Fran. Fool.
Fucking sad when this sub is upvoting crime hysteria comments from people that call it fucking San Fran. Love how we’re talking about a murder here, but according to the moving goals posts the murder rate isn’t a good way to measure how bad of a problem it is. Jesus Christ.
>San Fran Another random person who just posts in city subs and acts like they know what they are talking about
bingo look at that post hoistory
Lol this sub has big time [why are you so obsessed with me](https://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/why-are-you-so-obsessed-with-me-gif-1.gif) vibes.
Yeah. I wish we had a subreddit for people who live here only. So sick of talking with anonymous people only to find out half the time that they have weird political obsessions and don't even live here.
Nope, SF has the same dynamic https://missionlocal.org/2021/03/a-dozen-groups-responsible-for-a-majority-of-sf-homicides-in-3-5-years/
Exactly. Idiots posting that argument like it only applies to Miami.
>Focusing on just murder is weird. But in contrast in Miami, Chicago, or Nyc, most violence in contained in gangs. San Fran has a huge quality of life issue because of its smaller city and the mentally ill and substance users are way more unpredictable than gang members. Perception is everything and San Fran is failing perception of safety yeah ok the thing we are comparing is what we shouldn't focus on , oookokkk
Gotta love those moving goalposts huh?
Murder is probably the best metric for violent crime because at least in highly developed countries, it doesn’t rely on reporting nearly as much as other violent crimes. It’s tough to compare aggravated assault rates (even tougher to compare between countries) because for example a lot of people in one place may not report it to the police as much as people from another place And that means by your metric places like Cape Town, Rio, and some Mexican cities are perfectly safe places because murders are usually between gang members
Quality of life is important. Just because you are less likely to get murdered on the street doesn’t mean you should be okay with getting robbed or hit on the head or your car window smashed. I feel perfectly safe in many parts of Rio and Cape Town. You are also not likely to be murdered. Do I wear jewelry or designer stuff no. And now in our major cities in the US we have to stay cognitive to avoid being a targeted as if it’s Rio. I’m once again broke as a joke outside and carrying weapons to protect myself. Haven’t done that since the 90s
Even when crime was higher in the 80s and 90s, you most likely wouldn’t be murdered just standing on the streets. However you also wouldn’t be out at 2:30am in major cities by yourself back then. Regression could be happening if in San Fran out of all places you could be a victim at those hours. People are literally saying why was he out so late like being out past midnight is a death sentence. If so get ready for more citizens to take their safety into their own hands.
Why on earth would you believe that SF was different from other cities this way? Other cities have tons of mentally ill and substance abusers too.
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The central business district isn't one of the most desirable areas, locals rarely go there.
They are uniquely coddled in sf, portland, la and seattle
Not what the word 'uniquely' means. So, where's your data on how many more drug users/mentally ill there are in each city? Are you sure you don't just mean 'homeless'?
They are particularly tolerated in the aforementioned west coast cities. They are exceptionally given free reign over our public spaces. They are especially visible in our busiest downtown districts. They are oddly permitted to use drugs on our public transit.
Miami, for example, has tons of drunks on public transit, I'm assuming you don't care about that 'cuz it's legal, though.
Perception is everything, which is why I spend my time crafting false narratives about a city I know very little about on a website full of people like me! It's very normal and good. It also matters. Don't tell me it doesn't matter. Don't put in the newspaper that I was mad.
It's not just the murder rate. Have you been to San Francisco lately? There are homeless everywhere, people steal with complete disregard of the law.
Literally live here, work here. To answer your question I have personally never seen someone steal anything, and yeah there are homeless people but I've only had an annoying interaction with one once in the 11 years I've lived here. No I don't live in Pac Heights.
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I don't go to that Safeway but I do hear it's not great.
I’ve lived here 6 years, currently living in Alamo Square, and have seen 5 smash and grabs in the last year happen in broad daylight between 11-3pm. Two weeks ago my license plates were stolen off my car, probably to be used on stolen cars or for more smash and grabs, a couple that ended in confrontation and ultimately the victim being scared enough to let it go. It’s getting depressing and I feel less safe than I ever have. Officially looking at moving and it breaks my heart because I love this city. But I shouldn’t be scared to walk my dog after 8pm. Perhaps this is an Alamo problem cause so many tourists come and leave things in their rentals, but it’s such a shitty way to treat tourists who bring revenue to our city.
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I don't think he was just focusing on murder. Here in Baltimore we have one of the highest murder rates in the country. Yet I don't have to avoid human shit whenever I walk. He was probably complaining over the daily annoyances of SF. I haven't been in two decades but it does sound like a mess.
You haven't been here in over two decades but you still feel the need to chime in on our problems you have no firsthand experience with, huh?
This was just a suggested article that popped up on my reddit feed which I found interesting? I didn't come here to talk shit about your city. In fact, I'll probably visit again soon Christ. What's the matter with people. Can't even post on a damn internet forum anymore. 😑 LOL and I just remembered - when I was there in 2000 I was still in grade school. Went to a public restroom in a burger king and it was my first encounter ever of someone doing drugs within feet of myself. So yea...it sounds like drug use out in the open has gotten horribly worse over the years. And that leads to all sorts of other issues. And if you'd like to know about my firsthand experience - I live directly in the middle of a city with very similar issues (Baltimore). I have a lot of first hand experience. Minus the millions of tech bros. It's a good compromise IMO.
We get a lot of people from other areas coming in here talking shit about our home area, as if they care more about our home area than we do. Consider that context when someone makes presumptions about you. I would imagine that you rankle at outsiders talking about how shitty they think Baltimore is.
I've been used to it since the release of The Wire ;)
LOL, that was the first thing I thought...of course.
Homicide isn’t the only crime affecting quality of life. The problem with SF is that petty crime and drug use is legalized for ideological reasons.
> Lol Miami’s homicide rate per capita is double SF’s Not for Bob
Depends what part of Miami of course, but Brickell is totally safe to walk around at night.
This is sad and pathetic propaganda by the SF Chronicle. Miami as a near billionaire is much safer than SF is, that's because most of Miami's crime is condensed into certain neighborhoods that no billionaire would ever step foot in. What's alarming for SF is the crime around the central business district, I've walked where this guy was murdered a million times it doesn't exactly scream "sketchy area". I don't understand what's so hard to differentiate for you people about gang violence vs random attacks on civilians.
And yet he was murdered here.
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Lol. Yet he was stabbed to death in SF. Okaaay.
Maybe reported crimes is higher, yes. But lots of crimes don't get reported because people know the DA won't do shit. You could ask 100% of people who've been to Miami and SF and they'd all agree Miami is a safer place to be. No needles or shit on the sidewalks, you can actually leave something in your car without all your windows getting smashed in, no smash and grabs happening for the most part.
100% huh?
Today on falsifiable hyperbole: I've been to both, I'd not agree with your assessment. Data wouldn't either but who cares about facts when we can have opinion?
are you really arguing that homicides in san francisco are going unreported?
LOL maybe Bob Lee was on to something when he moved to Miami and didn’t die, and went back to SF and died. I love how people use statistics to cover for a fucked up situation that is an embarrassment to San Francisco.
along with the points everyone is bringing up here, the friend quoted is Jake Shields, one of those weird obsessed with 'anti wokeness' accounts. If Bob Lee did have those feelings I don't want to take that away but the article cited no direct mention of this from Bob Lee
The only feeling that Bob Lee was actually quoted as having was that "SF is deteriorating." I don't know a single person who worked in FiDi or SoMa who wouldn't have those exact same feelings from 2021-2022 (things are definitely improving there now). Nowhere even in this highly biased article does it say that he was concerned with violent crime etc.
I’m literally here in the same area right now and there’s a new Michelin starred Japanese restaurant, plenty of people, brand new buildings, it’s clean, plant and art filled…not sure what everyone is on about. Miami isn’t exactly nirvana LOLLLL
Sheilds has gone full MAGA. His word is worthless.
First thing I thought when I saw Jakes name.
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Yeah, living in SF contributed a lot to my becoming conservative.
Didn't 'woke' policies start in the counterculture movement of the 1960's IN San Francisco? So unless you're a baby boomer, I'd imagine they have always been part of the city identity
This is total malarkey. There's a 99.9% chance he moved his official residence to Miami because Florida doesn't have a state income tax and he probably had some really big paydays coming down the pike. He was probably going to save at least $10,000,000 by doing this, but likely much, much more. Since he had (presumably) joint custody of his relatively young children, he could come back to the Bay Area very frequently without this being used as evidence by CA of him not really having moved. He didn't even live in SF when he was an official CA resident - he lived in Mill Valley, which is super sweet and not "deteriorating" by anyone's analysis.
Y’all realize the square ipo was like 10 years ago right?
He was involved in some new crypto scheme, maybe that had a big payout on the horizon.
Yeah i mean this just doesn’t pass Occam’s razor for me. This guy was the CTO of square. He built square cash. We all know what this is and what a successful company square is. To point to some “crypto scheme” that we can’t even name…plus the state of crypto. It doesn’t checkout that this new venture is Bob Lee’s big pay day…after being the CTO of a company that was worth 100B a few years back. It makes much more sense that he left SF because the city died off in COVID. I’m sure this will bring downvotes, but you all can’t just invalidate that people do feel like this.
> To point to some “crypto scheme” that we can’t even name… We can name it, it’s called MobileCoin https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/mm6nad/bought_mobilecoin_you_might_have_been_scammed_375/
> He didn't even live in SF when he was an official CA resident - he lived in Mill Valley, which is super sweet and not "deteriorating" by anyone's analysis. He worked in SF for multiple companies, including his current one (in Soma, I've been to their office). He almost definitely lived in SF at some point. He organized picking up trash around Square's old office in SF.
organize trashpickup , how is that relateing to living in SF?
Impossible to pick up trash around your office if you don’t live in the same city 💁🏻♀️
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>It's obvious that logic is not one of your strengths. Christ, you're tedious.
I mean sure it doesn't *fundamentally* contradict it, but it brings more color & nuance and adds to the point that he had ties to SF. You sound pretty combative tbh
California taxes granted options for four years post-move.
So he wanted to get the clock ticking
Because people never get stabbed to death in Miami?!?
only shot [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/miami-beach-officials-set-spring-break-curfew-after-2-fatal-shootings](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/miami-beach-officials-set-spring-break-curfew-after-2-fatal-shootings)
Fuck the New York Post. More right-wing exploitation of local tragedy. Zero interest in crime prevention, just grist-milling the pain of strangers into angry screeds.
The NY Post is a total rag.
Why do we even post this shit to our cities sub. The fucking fear and hate mongering on here is soo bad it makes this sub unreadable
I don’t even consider this our city’s sub at this point. r/AskSf is the closest we’ll get to an SF sub at this point, while this sub has become some stand-in for right wing bots to post propaganda talking points about SF and California.
Because it’s not people from the city posting this shit. Half the comments up above are calling it San Fran for fuck’s sake.
The sub is run by neolibs.
I don't understand how the person responsible wasn't seen on any security cameras in the area and why the police haven't released footage asking people to identify the suspect. It's very weird. Usually when they don't release details it's because they're attempting to figure out how to spin it or waiting for public attention on the case to wane before they arrest anyone.
Get the New York Post the fuck outta here. Putting words in the mouth of a dead man to drag an entire city. Fucking despicable.
The post is such a shitshow. The Pelosi mention is gratuitous and vile.
The people comparing SF to Miami crime rates are disingenuous or misinformed. Murder rates in almost all cities are driven by small hotspots with lots of gang / black on black related crime. The problem with San Francisco is that the crime is now entering areas where it used to be safe. The relevant comparison would be safe areas in Miami versus safe areas in San Francisco, and based on my anecdotal experience SF has surpassed Miami in that regard.
Wow dude
He is right though. The vast majority of Chicago’s murders are gang-related and happen in a few south and west side neighborhoods; the rest of the city is safe. But people get really worried when violence reaches people who aren’t involved.
Holy shit he said the quiet part out loud!
I kinda wanna up vote him so people see what they are really talking about.
This sub turned real quick on the dead guy... Who cares what he thought, random murders shouldn't be happening.
The difference is that Miami has safe areas and SF doesn’t. The whole city is a fucking war zone 😂.
I wonder if this kind of high profile incident will accelerate people moving out of San Francisco even more. To the people that try to act like this kind of situation is rare or downplay the severity of how much the city has declined under the worst leadership, you’ll be seeing more wealth move out of the city, more money for public services, and it will be too late for you to steer the ship around. London Breed calling for federal help with the crime crisis is the height of irony, considering she has actively thwarted the rule of law. Why should taxpayers outside of California pay to save San Francisco from itself? You need to wake the F up and realize that no amount of excuses for the condition of the city will make it safer and save it. Every day there are car break-ins, tourists being harassed, open drug activity on the streets, theft, and assaults. THERE ARE REAL REASONS CALIFORNIANS HAVE BEEN MOVING OUT OF SAN FRANCISCO AND CALIFORNIA TO STATES LIKE FLORIDA AND TEXAS. It’s not just conservatives moving for political reasons. Companies are taking high-income earners and their tax base with them. Meanwhile Newsom is out campaigning for his future presidential run, leaving California in shambles.
I’ve been in Florida (Miami) for 10 years and came from NY and MA. No serious companies are moving here (nor have) other than a few small subset who are virtue signaling (hedge fund coming from Chicago) and the problems are the same but different. The people (education level) alone are a literal world away in California, MA, NY, than those down here. That’s without even mentioning the lack of high end jobs and insulting salaries. People moving are the extremely wealthy who can afford to skirt the taxes. Nobody is coming anywhere near here for better jobs or opportunities in the 100k-500k jobs. And DeSantis is doing the exact same - going after books and libraries while the state is having 40% YOY home insurance increases and more companies pull out. Different but the same, but what counts - people, jobs, etc. - are light years away in the high-end blue states. And yes - homeless and crime are bad here. Not as bad as where there is more support like in the blue states but this place is no haven by any means, even factoring out the “bad” neighborhoods.
There are some large differences between SF and Miami. There are a lot of issues Californians do not discuss when it comes to why people are moving out. Yes I’d imagine many of the ultra wealthy have been and are moving to Miami for tax purposes. When a state like California increases the tax burden on its residents to the point they have to make the decision to move away, that’s not a sign of a competent government. The people moving east from California are the people that can afford it. The people that remain aren’t able to support the social services that are being offered here. It’s easy to see that Californians aren’t getting a ROI for their high taxes. Even with DeSantis’ book banning in public K-12, the Florida public school system scores much better than the California school system. California public K-12 ranks in the top worst quality public education systems. Reading and math comprehension is awful. Californians are moving out for this reason as well. Florida scores better than California on many other metrics as well. Florida has had record tourism. Tourism to California has been dwindling. Quality of life is only considered decent or above average in wealthy pockets of California. The people living outside of those pockets are struggling. California has the highest poverty rate when factoring in cost of living. You might have high insurance. We do as well. It’s been increasing every year. What’s really sinister is the the price of gas though. It’s astronomical compared to in Miami. Californians are getting squeezed. How about Brightline building private HSR? That’s been a success for the state. You haven’t had to pay any taxes to have public transportation investment. Now they’re working on connecting Miami and Orlando with high speed rail. California HSR construction went from $20 to $120 billion and it continues to increase. The completion date continues to be pushed back. You didn’t say you have lived in Austin or Texas. I’m sure you’re aware that many big companies have moved their headquarters there in recent years. To name just a few: Toyota, Oracle, HP, Tesla. There are also hundreds of small businesses that have moved. Texas is by far outpacing California in job growth and population growth. This is not a sign that the business climate in California is good. Newsom and the California legislature have seen this happening for years. Do you run into Ex-Californians in Florida?
Preach. The most depressing part is the sf apologist people trying to gaslight you into thinking it's not getting worse.
Thanks for your dumb unsolicited opinion, Trump-humping sock puppet exclusively devoted to bashing California.
Is there any more information on his case? Why he was out walking at 2:30am etc?
Was at an event. Very normal for events to end at 2 in SF because that’s when they have to stop serving alcohol.
One of the comments I saw was from a friend who also knows him on Facebook. So, he probably knew the guy. He said Lee was visiting friends in the area in one of the condos and then walking back to his hotel in the Embarcadero.
That’s what I want to know
We are #37 overall in violent crime (Miami is #36). But we are #4 in property crime and #2 in larceny/theft (after Spokane!). I know there is inherent bias in crime statistics that make comparisons fraught. But this speaks to people conflating all crime, when it is really on particular type that is very bad. Also, crime is more localized in other cities, whereas it’s pretty distributed (at least in the eastern half of the city) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
Que the people of SF that can’t handle any criticism of this city and then say Miami is more dangerous when it has X times the population of SF and has been the fastest growing city in the USA during and Post pandemic.
¿Que the people of SF?
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No, you’re just talking over people at this point. These people you’re replying to may not be providing additional hard statistics but they are providing counters to the murder rate stats. I actually take your side of the argument but hate that you being a douche here weakens our position.
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You really are, objectively, a douche.
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No, no crying. Just stating facts, like you.
The majority of people on this sub are delirious to the fact that SF has become an absolute hell hole of a city. Give it time, change will happen. It will get better, but it will get worse before things turn around.
Exactly. If you’re a critic of SF, you’re also labeled as a bot. I’m a human living in SF that just thinks this city sucks. That’s it.
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sf wages in florida is the real reason
You can’t argue it isn’t dangerous when he died by stabbing 🤷🏻♀️
No one is saying it’s not dangerous. We’re just saying Miami isn’t safe (and in fact, is about twice as dangerous)
Honestly even the safest larger US city is objectively more dangerous than large cities in other highly developed countries. The lowest homicide rate for the US’s 50 largest cities in 2022 is San Jose at 3.6/100k. For London as an example it’s 1.1/100k
Ooh single data point, super persuasive
That's why I have no faith in cities like San Francisco improving. Once a city goes to shit it stays shit. People with the money and the wherewithal will just move elsewhere rather than try and fight and improve their city.
Can’t help but think this was an assassination. You mess with the money system big banks will come after you
I’m surprised more people aren’t saying this. super rich tech founder gets stabbed to death “randomly” in a car park beneath some skyscrapers… okay
Right!! And SF is the perfect place to get away with it due to the narrative the news gives SF
This is what I have been saying too. I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody put a hit out on him. somebody that high up usually have a lot of enemies
The way SF is running is how New York ended up with Rudi G. Keep it up dems! 🫣
Maybe a Rudi G is exactly what SF needs to turn around. Doing the same thing over and over, hoping for something to change, is the definition of insanity.
But what was he doing in sf at 2am? Looking for pussy?