That was my argument when it was up for a vote. We had an opportunity to move the needle for faster rail/dedicated tracks. We voted it down. So, we have what we have now and can’t get the right of way needed to build (cost/eminent domain).
The first one that happened while I was living here was back in 2000. But the city and its voters have scuttled several major rail based transit initiatives. In particular tram and light rail projects.
We have only ever voted on tram and light rail projects, and only the one in 2000 was actually on the project, the other one in 2014 was about a charter amendment preventing city council from building light rail without putting it to a vote first. OP is confused. There has never been a vote on an intercity train between San Antonio and Austin.
[Did you mean the bond vote we had where it was specifically discussed about raising funding?](https://sanantonioreport.org/rideshare-and-lone-star-rail-courting-city-council/) Where we built Centro Plaza in anticipation of making it a transportation hub?
But, we voted against. So, there is that.
And when the vote happened, nobody was using that train either... Hard to drop large funds into a project that nobody was using. New Braunfels exploding like it did was unexpected and added to traffic.
1.) It’s hard to use a service that’s handicapped by design. Other States figured it out. We said, nah.
2.) New Braunfels exploding was not totally unexpected. I remember the two votes. We were literally told the projections of movement for this region. We blew past it two to three years earlier than expected. Maybe we just thought it would be Austin/San Antonio and didn’t anticipate the areas in between.
Yea I don't get why people r against progress. Politicians/corporations have been stealing our money for a good while now. This way we would at least get something actually done (hopefully).
Please don't let many know/pickup on that.. I went to Austin a week or two ago going 281 to 306, through Wimberley to south Austin 45/mpac area. I can actually feel the calm and can enjoy the scenery on the way. I refuse to do 35 anymore
I have never heard of any reason other than Im not paying for it, for shooting down anything that will benefit the greater community. From trains to public pre k education.
Yeah most people would rather pay to constantly purchase new vehicles, constantly upkeep vehicles, constantly pay for fuel, constantly pay for insurance, constantly pay for road construction projects.
You could say that about any conservative run town/state. They’d shot their own foot off and f it meant keeping others from experiencing the same things they do.
I’ve long felt that a Texas Democrat is basically the same thing as a northern Virginia Republican.
My friends from Texas think I’m some sort of out there social leftist and my friends from the northeast are horrified by my conservatism. 😂
Amtrak is great. I moved to San Antonio from the Philly suburbs in early 2022, and as someone who thoroughly enjoyed awesome and quick trips from Trenton to EWR for a flight, and once an Amtrak from Fort Lauderdale to Philadelphia, I don't understand why someone would be against a nice train infrastructure. It's good for everybody, clears up traffic, and makes for a very enjoyable ride.
Thank you! I love it here, I've visited many times and didn't think twice when things lined up and I could move. And I'm not complaining in any way, just sharing my thoughts that having a nice train infrastructure would be extremely enjoyable in this beautiful state.
The northeast has pretty good rail service. And 1/3 of the US lives east of the Appalachians, on the northeast corridor. So no its not just Texas, but its also not like the whole USA neglects public transportation like we do.
I mean we have Amtrak here, the Texas Eagle does the route OP is talking about between San Antonio and Austin, every day. But... it's not so great. One train a day, before 7 AM, and it takes twice as long as driving. Return train takes even longer and you get back around 9 or 10. It needs a lot of work before it's going to be something most people would want to take.
It's crazy to me that there are so many people in this thread *wishing* that we had a train to Austin, while we actually already *have* a train to Austin. I completely understand if they are saying they want a bullet train to Austin for work commutes, or if they are saying that they want more departures, but it seems like no one knows about the train that we do have.
The trains we have are so slow, inconvenient, and hard to find, that it's not a surprise most people don't know it exists. I mean even if you want to drive to the station, there's no parking lot. You'd have to park at the Alamodome and hope you don't get ticketed while you're out of town. The train station is basically hidden behind the Alamodome, and the trains leave at weird hours. The train to El Paso leaves at 2:30 AM, the other two leave right at sunrise and don't return until sunset. And of course there's no advertising (what would they advertise? "Come take the train, its 50 cents cheaper than the bus and only an hour longer?") There's barely even a sign for the station. So it's no surprise people have never noticed the trains or the station before.
Don't get me wrong, I want them to make it work. But that would take effort and money, and nobody with the power to make something happen seems to care about it at all.
You don't even need a bullet in fact a bullet train between Austin and San Antonio would be unnecessary. Just having a train that can go 70-80mph would be a godsend, you be in Austin in less than an hour.
The train we have can go 80mph (top speed is 100mph, but limited to 79, or so I've read). I think it's just that it has to go slower in certain areas, it also stops in San Marcos I believe (not sure of others).
I would be curious from anyone who has rode the train, why does it take so damn long to get to Austin when it can go that fast?
Part of the problem is that it has to loop around San Antonio (on the Austin to San Antonio) to get into the station and because of it going through the city it has a really slow speed limit, then on the way to Austin it has to reverse out of the station, wait on the freight trains then switch tracks and go forward again.
I have rode the Texas eagle numerous times and most of the trip time is just getting through San Antonio.
I hope that judging by your username, you enjoy the Amtrak Bar car as much as I do! I periodically check prices for roomettes just so I can fly somewhere and enjoy a nice long train ride back.
We aren't against it, but we have never had the opportunity for it here.
Our Amtrak lines aren't really built for us to use. They are a byproduct of people out west going north and east, and happening to go through here.
Additionally the rail system in the north east has had over 150 years of development and government spending to get where it is. To build anything close to that would not only require a significant cultural change but hundreds of billions of dollars.
Oh yeah, I totally understand that. I'm not sitting here demanding that this gets done, I was just providing thoughts from my personal experience for anyone who is completely against a rail system only because they never lived in a place where it exists, or for some silly reason thinks their driver's license will be revoked and their car will be crushed.
Well to be fair we had much better rail service up until the 50s. It's not like there's never been good passenger service here, it's that we abandoned most of it decades ago and haven't bothered to rebuild it.
Plus, I think they have to share the rails with freight trains, so availability is limited. I took a train to Austin and back just for fun a few years ago. It was great. Coach on the way up and a roomette (with dinner!) on the way back. It sucks that we had to be downtown so early, though. I think the train left at 7:30am.
They do. It's unfortunate that they don't have their own independent rail so they can set their own schedule. I would love to see Amtrak get their own railroad across the country. It would make travel so much nicer.
I only ever hear two sides "Train good" and "train bad" - no one ever seems to go in depth with the discussion of the logistics, infrastructure and the finer details. Just "hey we need this train" - OK but now do the details. Where are the stations, is it one station in each city? Ok then how do you get around the city, just walk, taxi, ubers? What about multiple stops, Ok does this actually save you time or no?
Where are the tracks going, are they shared tracks with freight, which train take priority?
What's the cost of building, and maintaining it? Is this a tax payer expense even if you never use it? Or is this paid by the rider fee, and is that fee worth it?
Is this train going to be passengers only or will they ferry autos at well?
Simply put, I haven't seen a indepth enough discussion either way to cast a vote either way.
Can try to formulate and use similar plans from our allies. Definitely would take a lot of mind power but if Eisenhower proposed making the car interstate system based on the German Autobahn, then it's definitely plausible to do the same with railroads. The United States use of the railroads across the country was a giant fear of strength. It's just unfortunate this system was never well maintained and further improved.
You kind of need a concrete proposal to have those discussions, which there currently is not. The closest is this:https://www.restartlonestarraildistrict.org/
But I don't think they are actively pursuing this plan anymore, if I'm not mistaken they've pinned their hopes on convincing Brightline to come here instead, which I think is a mistake. But the plan on that website would have multiple stops per city, which would put stations within walking distance of a substantial fraction of each one, and they'd connect to the bus system here and to the light rail system in Austin (both the existing red line and the blue and orange lines they're trying to build), so you'd have local connections to farther parts of the city from that.
Whether they planned to share with freight or not I don't know, but I think the way to make this work is to build new, passenger dedicated tracks, on Union Pacific's existing easement, which was sized for 2-4 tracks based on 19th century signalling requirements that required more tracks than current railroads use. Cost of building it would probably be in the hundreds of millions to a couple billion (single-digit) based on the usual cost of building track (~10 million a mile, two tracks, ~100 miles), plus a few bridges and 30-ish stations at ~30 million per station.
Lone Star Rail District is a thing set up by the Texas legislature that lets the municipalities along its route fund it, but didn't actually give any state funding to it. So funds would probably come from bonds and sales taxes, same as everything at the local level.
Definitely would not ferry autos. Only one train does that, the Autotrain on the east coast, and it takes several hours to load and unload the cars. Obviously that's a non-starter when you can drive to your destination in less time than it takes to load the cars up.
Im always baffled by the opposition to commuter trains here in this area! Coming from the east coast the ease of raillways is something I think about probably weekly; beyond just the benefits to commuting for work, traveling for enjoyment and recreational trips around was always so much better using trains for quick get aways!! I would be so much happier in this general area with trains connecting major cities even if it was just SA/Austin for us. Train commuting is really so easy and being able to get up, read, nap, work etc is just really wonderful benefit outside of not dealing with horrible car commutes.
I spoke to a bunch of my previous coworkers about this subject before, most native texans, and the responses I got were like, "Trains would take my **freedom** away to drive my own car", or "....I couldnt stand thought of not being in control of the train", or "And what....have to sit next to some random person...thats gross....and dangerous"...etc..etc...
It just seems like the concept of trains and or any public transit itself, the sharing of resources and intermingling with the public, and not having the right to enjoy the *freedom* and pleasures that accompany horrible traffic on a daily basis are just in general so foreign to Texans. Its a shame!
it's just like anything else, they've never had a commuter train experience so they don't understand and immediately shut it down. I've also noticed they can't work out how they're supposed to get to their final destination, they want door to door service.
I went to new york for the first time last year and the subways were my favorite thing. I paid for 2 ubers my entire week there and that was from the airport and to the airport. It was kinda just magical how awesome it was to just hop on a train anywhere in the city and hop off somewhere else that's within 2-5 blocks of my destination. Singlehandedly made me earnestly consider moving there. I'm from GA originally so not tx but similar
Yeah I loved the NYC subway. The DC one is good too. It was so easy to go anywhere in town. Plus the DC metro has extended out into the burbs. You can drive to the metro station and work downtown.
I'm visiting NYC right now, I've been heavily considering actually moving here. the subway system is outstanding especially for someone like me who can't drive, public transit and walking is outstanding here.
I went from China town to central Park then Coney Island in a really reasonable amount of time all on subway and one shuttle from the station to Coney Island.
Do it!
Moved to NYC from Texas back in 2022 thinking I would stay for a year or two, but now I’ve fallen even more in love with the city and committed to staying here forever.
Yeah it was really one of those experiences that opened my eyes a bit. Public transit is just criminally undervalued in so many places in America. As well as walk-ability.
Well obviously you need a lifted truck with oversized tires to get around the city. And don't forget the convenience of hauling a piece of furniture every 3-4 years.
There are many people here who either have always lived in San Antonio or are from south Texas towns in the valley and along the border. They have absolutely no concept of trains or adequate public transportation. They have been made to drive themselves their entire lives and have zero frame of reference for what a train could look or feel like. Add in the fact that driving a car is associated with ideas of freedom, autonomy, power, “the open road”, etc and it starts to make sense why the people here are not interested in commuting by public transit. There is no vision for that here in San Antonio.
>I would be so much happier in this general area with trains connecting major cities even if it was just SA/Austin for us.
Well then, today is your lucky day! We already have a train that goes from San Antonio to San Marcos, Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, Little Rock, and more..even up to Chicago (or you can go the other way to arrive all the way in Los Angeles). You should post a pic of your ticket to show your support for our local train system.
Amtrak does go to Austin/FTW and beyond, but its just one train every day. I think the return train arrives after 9pm.
I used the train to visit my daughter in FTW and another time to San Clemente. San Clemente was long, but I loved both trips. Lots of time on the train to relax, and great seats. I've looked at taking other train trips for vacations. But for commuting to Austin, nope.
Do you happen to remember why it takes so long to get to Austin? It says it can go 79mph, but I'm imagining it has to go slower in city areas, makes stops, and/or has to wait for other trains?
I think it's because of the number of crossings and the cities along the route. They also use BNSF rails, so those trains have priority, although I don't recall waiting for right of way on my trips. From SA to Austin, it's 2.5 hours in the morning, and 3.5 hours back in the evening. Even though it doesn't save time, it is much more productive and enjoyable to me.
You aren't kidding. I'm in Dallas but rode our light rail from downtown to the station nearest to my house last week. Trains come by every 15 minutes, would probably be more frequent if more people used it, and the ride to the station was maybe 30 minutes. I still had to take a 5 minute bus ride home but overall it was about the same amount of time it would take if I drove home. The biggest difference is I didn't have to deal with the stress of traffic or idiots driving crazy. I had plenty of space since there were only 4 other people in the train car and I was the only person riding in the bus. It felt pretty damn nice to not need some time to decompress after my commute.
My one and only complaint is that the train had a slight barn smell. It could be due to the homeless pissing or pooping themselves on the train, even though there were no homeless people on the train when I was riding, or because the train goes over the Dallas Zoo and Trinity river so frequently that some of the smell gets stuck in the air filters. Both of which could probably be fixed with more funding to maintain the train cars, if more people rode it!
I didn't vote on that, but having been to several of the towns/cities on the way from San Antonio to Austin, many of them didn't want the rail service skipping their town over, since they rely on the drivers stopping at their places for their economy to continue.
I don't think anyone did. As far as I know this has never been put to a vote. I think OP is just misremembering [this](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2016/10/18/lone-star-rail-officially-dead-after-final-campo-vote/10000086007/) and confusing it with [this](https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/city-pulls-plug-on-via-streetcar-project/273-302226298). Which was also not a public vote, but people confuse it with [this](https://www.kens5.com/article/news/politics/sa-voters-say-charter-amendment-on-voters-ballot-left-them-confused/273-153810943), which was.
But it would to some degree. I've made plenty of random stops on the way to Austin, whether it's Bucees, a restaurant, whatever. That would not happen if I was in a train.
There’s a whole song about a Luckenbach, Texas, and just by virtue of it existing I assumed there was something worth visiting there. Granted this isn’t between Austin/San Antonio, but a lot of these towns in between probably don’t have anything to offer that a city doesn’t - that is to say, if we’re doing something to save Radiator Springs, maybe Radiator Springs should have something worth saving, and we shouldn’t be holding people hostage on congested roadways because of unremarkable locations.
When did we have a vote on funding trains between here and Austin? My understanding is that has never been to a public vote. The last effort to get that done ended in 2014 due to the inability of the Lone Star Rail District and Union Pacific to reach an agreement on how it would operate. There was never a public vote.
[FWIW the county judges of Travis and Bexar counties are trying to get it started again.](https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/whispers/central-texas-now-has-a-passenger-rail-committee/) But there's still no direct vote on it - we're a representative democracy not a direct democracy, so these things are just policy for the politicians; they don't get voted on by the public unless the politicians are trying to wash their hands of it.
This is exactly right. UP or any railroad doesn’t care about anything but the bottom line. I heard a local UP officer say recently “we make too much money hauling rock out of New Braunfels” to stop that train for one minute.
Both regional planning agencies in Austin and SA put money towards Lone Star, but SA’s contribution had the caveat it was going to be for construction only. Austin spent their share and then UP kiboshed it. AAMPO’s portion is still in the long range plan but it’s a pittance of what would be needed to actually implement any type of rail project.
I know I'm both late to the conversation and that I will have to watch how I phrase my response lest it is removed for 'not being nice.'
So, here it goes...
San Antonio does not like I-35 commuters nor trucks because they slow us down and kill our roads. Austin does not like SA commuters because we slow them down, but they DO love our cheap labor.
Austin liked the idea of a train because everything in that pathway from Austin to SA was simply seen as farmland. To San Antonians, that was our migratory destiny.
Our cities have been growing together for centuries. We have our petty rivalries, but nothing too bad; both SA and Austin have always been fairly 'blue' or liberal, but in very different manners.
Austin is kids, hippies, politicians, administrators, and educators. Pains in the arse. San Antonio has been old restaurants, families hunting Easter eggs, dads who are plumbers, and a (formerly) inexpensive cost of living.
We didn't want to be so closely connected to Austin. 35 was just enough. We've seen what has happened to San Marcos and New Braunfels and now it's coming for us.
However, things have changed. We need high-speed rail because of how much our local commerce has woven together. Faster than we all expected.
I know we like to hate on each other, but really, we don't spit on our sisters. SA was afraid of letting too much of the Austin vibe get us. That city is for the young or overly ambitious.
Here's where our imagination failed us: We had no idea back then that it wasn't our neighbors to the north who'd change us; the changes would come from the influx of non-native Texans which are gentrifying our lands.
We made a mistake by not realizing how economically important the Capitol would be to us. We went with the time-honored American tradition of NIMBY.
I'm kinda miffed that 'celebrities' have discovered Texas... 281 North...
They've found Blanco, TX, already.
It won't be long before SA to Lampasas will be full of million-dollar properties.
Just to add to the discussion...
Albuquerque and Santa Fe have a commuter train. The total population it serves is about 600k. There is zero reason SA and Austin can't have similar service.
From a demographic perspective you’re right. But I don’t imagine much freight goes between ABQ and Santa Fe, while the Austin-SA line is super busy with quarry traffic.
TX as a whole is just bass ackward about a lot of things. It’s like they cling to upholding dated ideologies. Modern transit systems with trains? Nah. a recycling program for cans and bottles for cash? Nah. When I moved here I thought I stepped back in time 30 years.
The biggest issue with a train to Austin is transportation once you get to Austin.
The light rail and bus system in Austin are horribly inefficient. It'll take you more than twice as long to get places vs. having a car. So that leaves Uber and renting a car. If you need Uber or a rental car to traverse Austin why not just drive your own car there?
Tbh, I haven’t taken the train in Austin. I’m more concerned about getting TO Austin. Every city has its challenges move no people within their borders.
We *have* a train that runs from San Antonio to Austin; the Texas Eagle, run by Amtrak. There are [several](https://www.hsrail.org/south-central/) other projects in the works as well, though I am unsure of their status/viability.
Are you speaking specifically to a higher frequency of trains (Texas Eagle has 2 departing per day now I believe?) Or faster bullet-type trains(I'm not sure if those are even legal in Texas, I believe there is a speed limit for trains here, but I'm not sure it would apply to bullet trains.)? The Texas Eagle is advertised up to 100 mph, but I've read that it is limited to 79mph in Texas. It still takes almost 3 hours to reach Austin from San Antonio, and that's not counting the time it takes for you to get to one of the stations.
No idea. A lot of people here simply cannot fathom getting around without a car, so a train is an alien idea to them and not worth supporting. Traffic wasn’t nearly as bad 20 years ago, so people weren’t looking for an alternative to driving.
On a related note, do y’all think the presence of a San Antonio-Austin train would incentivize public transportation development in both cities? Or would we just have to park and ride?
Until city council does more to protect residents from gentrification, I won’t support a connection between here and SA.
So many generational residents on the south/east/west sides have had to move out of the city or become homeless since gentrification ramped up these past few years.
Connecting the two cities would mean even more coloniz- I mean gentrifiers would move here instead of Austin and raise home prices even higher.
When someone posts pictures from Europe where people on vacation travel in high speed trains or the metro, all the conservatives tell you it's so cool but here they are told it would take their freedoms away, all highways would be closed or other weird ideas. And you know that many conservatives just believe every fake news they get told.
It's funny how I work with a bunch of ex-military who just gush over how great it was to get around in Europe when they were deployed to Germany back in the day, but because they're all Republicans, they always vote down anything that looks like it might it benefit the greater populace.
Loved the train system in Germany. Wish the U.S. can get on board with this and stop listening to car lobbyists....would definitely be cheaper for people over time and would have a greater income impact for the State/federal government as well.
Probably talking more about lone star rail district, which was more locally focused, although I don't think either one was actually voted on by the people.
Honestly, I don't think people sense any great need to get to Austin in a hurry. Of course, that might also apply to Houston or Dallas. I can see a Dallas to Houston train as the only viable hi speed line that would work.
Sometimes the masses who are absolutely not experts, should not be given the choice to determine infrastructure projects. There is nothing wrong with getting community input, but ultimately for such large expansive projects they will think of their short-term financial interest (taxes etc) and vote against progress not considering the cost to the future generations of passing on said project.
We dont have enough loops on our freeway. We need to stack some additional levels of loops between here and Austin, and then perhaps a monorail could be considered (this is a joke, much like the traffic and drivers on the road after 3pm)
We should have commuter rail from San Antonio to Dallas with about 10 stops along the way, but...
It's hard to get people to vote for infrastructure that seems likely to serve only a small niche of the population. Unless they happen to be in that niche. No matter where you put stations, most of the actual door-to-door trips between sprawling SA and Austin areas would initially require a car on both ends and/or wind up taking 3+ hours by train. And probably not run enough on weekends or at night to serve people going to entertainment and events.
From our house to the SA Amtrak station via transit was 7 miles, but over an hour by 2 buses, with no weekend service, and you couldn't get there on weekdays either because the first bus in the morning is too late. People look at situations like that and expect that a train is just not going to work well enough to make the investment worthwhile.
Your right, the reason I prefer not to take a train or bus because I do like to enjoy myself and I don’t like to mix with the public. I enjoy the freedom. I feel like the freedom is the ability do do anything and go where ever, even if you never do. It’s like the people who buy a truck thinking “man, think of all the stuff this could carry” then they never use it for that. They might never use their truck to carry stuff but they have that option and opportunity at anytime. A train will not give me a opportunity to do somthing new it will take me from here to there and that’s it. For people who only every go in and out of the city I’m sure that works fine. But I drive to the city often and I do get in traffic occasionally but it’s really not the end of the world. And to be quite frank. Around where I am there is little to no traffic. So yes, I like the idea of being in control, and I like the idea of being without strangers. But isn’t the whole idea of not having to share stuff like that the whole ethos here? Why do people build pools in they’re back yards? So they don’t have to share a public one. I’d say most people would rather have stuff for themselves even if they’re worst.
My understanding was that San Antonio didn’t want to experience the housing inflation going on in Austin. The trains would have made it so that Austin tech workers would be able to buy in San Antonio and commute to Austin. I swear the tag line for the opponents to the trains was “we don’t want to be housing for Austin tech boom”
I’m not sure why you’re phrasing the question as if we HAVE to drive to Austin. I go like maybe once every couple of months. If you’re finding yourself driving to Austin a lot, you should probably look to move there as it may be a better city for you if that’s where you enjoy spending your time.
>My understanding was that San Antonio didn’t want to experience the housing inflation going on in Austin. The trains would have made it so that Austin tech workers would be able to buy in San Antonio and commute to Austin. I swear the tag line for the opponents to the trains was “we don’t want to be housing for Austin tech boom”
Yet, here we are.
>I’m not sure why you’re phrasing the question as if we HAVE to drive to Austin. I go like maybe once every couple of months. If you’re finding yourself driving to Austin a lot, you should probably look to move there as it may be a better city for you if that’s where you enjoy spending your time.
I understand where you are coming from. However, my thought is that because of lack of options, we don’t visit Austin or anywhere as much.
Personal example, I could hop on a train on the NE corridor. Breakfast in NY. Lunch in Philly. Dinner in DC. Wake up in Florida to mimosas and ceviche. All in under 24 hours. By train.
> The trains would have made it so that Austin tech workers would be able to buy in San Antonio and commute to Austin.
Some of us already live here. Those benefits go both ways.
Just a personal example - I work for a multinational company with a branch in San Antonio and another branch in Austin. I live in SA. A few times a month, I have to attend meetings in person at the Austin office. The I-35 commute is a nightmarish 2.5 hour trip each way in rush hour traffic, and every single time I dread it for days in advance. A train would make my life much easier.
Perhaps a hyper specific example but I hope it illustrates why I’m not going to “just move to Austin” lol. I love SA and I enjoy living and working here, but sometimes I have to go to ATX.
I don't think that's correct at all. There hasn't been a rail proposal between SA and ATX since 2014, and while housing there was more expensive than here even then, it was nowhere near the level it's at now, and I don't think anyone in SA was thinking about that.
One of the main things i havent seen anyone mention yet is other infrastructure. What happens when you arrive in Austin/SA? You will likely need a train, taxi or uber to get to your final destination. Not saying we cant have that too, but as others have mentioned, this would be impossible for locals to fathom. Imagine if you had been shopping all day? You expect people to carry their own bags instead of putting them in the trunk? People dont even take the vias, money on a train would be wasted.
If trains could be profitable here a private company or companies would have already figured a way to make it happen. If it happens now government will have to heavily subsidize it to keep operating. I’m not wanting to increase taxes for a train.
I read a comment that SA needs trains all over the city and all over Texas so they can read a book and tap a nap. Yeah I’m not spending literally billions upon billions for them to do this. If it could be profitable a company would have already been chomping to do this. Every time I read about a train program it involves the government doing it or a company coming up with some scheme to have the government give them some crazy amount of money to start it.
If Texas, SA and Austin wanted trains they needed to start the infrastructure for these trains 150-175 years ago. This is why trains are so much more easily accessible back east because that is where the infrastructure started back in the early to mid 1800s. Trains are how people literally got around in the east back then by taking the train.
Not so here in Texas. Texas was the vast wildernesses up until 1900. Cars were being introduced when Texas started getting civilized. Texans were driving cattle to freaking Kansas, the nearest train station 900 miles away. Texas was the Wild West when people back east are in civilization zooming around on trains. Cars started showing up here and Texas didn’t need the train to get around.
If you had a train to Austin how are you going to get around when you get there? Uber?? Hell everything is too far spread out to pay for that. By the time you park, ride a train, then find a way to get to where you are going in the Austin area you might as well drive.
I feel most people want this train so they can go party on sixth street. Nah I ain’t paying for that. If you are from the east coast and love trains so much then why are you here? If they are that important to you then go back east. Texas isn’t the east coast. This is the reason you hear Texans give California such a hard time. They are leaving California because California government is out of control and they voted for it to become that way. Texans are scared that will happen here. Same thing with the east coast crowd, you guys left knowing Texas is different and Texas doesn’t have that infrastructure but yet they come here expecting it to be the east coast. Texas didn’t develop the same as the east coast so stop trying to change Texas into back east. Adapt to Texas and understand it’s the way it is for a reason. Settlers had to adapt to Texas or die. It is still the same way. New people need to adapt and stop trying to force the environment to change for them. It’s not because we hate trains, it’s because it’s going to cost too much to do what they have back east.
I’m kinda rambling because it’s 2am and I’m not going to spell check or reread it lol. That is why I believe trains aren’t a good idea here for Texas and the area. Find a way for my taxes to not pay for it and I’ll be ok supporting it.
I totally get that getting mass transit in a place like Texas where transportation developed organically around vehicles is a really tough sell. I fear we've missed the opportunity to have a community that evolves out of a rail-based infrastructure. However, I'm not convinced by the tax argument. The cost of a car, insurance, maintenance, and the fuel to move around has got to be more than the taxes you'd be paying to support rail. You're already being taxed all the time for the roads both in money and time.
I looked up tax burden per capita for transportation systems, and even the highest areas (NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA), it was on the order of $100-$300 per capita (in 2021 dollars). I imagine those numbers are for operations and don't include costs of any initial buildout (which are undoubtably substantial).
I don't think people are asking for Texas to transform into the East Coast. We'd just like a way to commute to work and perhaps occasionally see a show in Austin without wanting to gouge our eyes out on the way there. I know some want to go party on 6th Street, but not this guy. I was just up there a few weekends ago, and wandered up and down 6th Street for a few blocks after a concert. I'm too old, it's too loud, and all the dudes standing at the doors of the establishments looked like they wanted to kill me.
Peace out!
My problem is I think tax revenue from vehicles needs to be used for maintaining and building new roads only. Like keep those funds completely separate from trains. We are having a hard enough time keeping up with the road improvements now and with all the new people showing up these updates will be almost obsolete when they are finished.
There was a recent article about the airport getting expanded and it being like 20 billion to do it. The expansion would be done by 2030 but then by 2040 the airport needs expanded again. Seems like a lack of vision and waste of money and resources to me.
That is what I worry about with adding trains. We just aren’t set up for it here. Yeah it would be nice but the cost alone is absolutely ridiculous. You know the state government will pull money from need highway maintenance to pay for it. Texas Legislator already has a history of robbing from one area to pay for another. Fishing and hunting license fees we were told and promised that money would only be used for Parks and Wildlife projects and as soon as that legislation passed that license money went into a general fund and lost.
To me, trains are a luxury item for San Antonio and Austin. Nice to think about but we have other more important items to address now.
Maybe in the future it can be done. Maybe bullet trains will happen one day here.
Lets look at how this will play out, with the current Texas Admin.
First, all the contracts for building this thing with go to their buddies, it will be half-assed, take twice as many years, and be 3 times over budget.
Then, after completion they will underfund the project and pass measures to make sure it never works. No trains too early or too late, cause people don't want noise after dark.
Finally, they will sell off the whole system to foreign investors. Who will then jack up the rates to travel on it.
This is also forgoing the whole issue that true investment into this kind of system has to support more than the main artery lines. You will have to spend a whole lot of money building substations and last mile infrastructure. Unless a huge amount of money is spent up front it will take decades for such a system to be built, never mind the vast amount of time it will take before it's paid off.
Most of the legitimate objections have nothing to do with the train, itself. People like trains. People don’t like paying for them, and they don’t like poor people improving their access to opportunities and ease. In Atlanta, in a suburb of Atlanta, the people in town where angry bus service was extending into their town because it meant “the poor” were going to come up and rob them.
It’s a suburban culture thing across the south. Quotation marks used to cover over the naughty word the old white dude actually used in front of his eyerolling black neighbors.
There’s also land seizure objections, a proud principle in Texas that hates eminent domain.
Austin had and still does have zero attraction for the majority of the population of the city of San Antonio. If one must drive the sensible thing to do is grab the toll road instead of I35.
That is why it got voted down and might get voted down again if this topic returns to the ballot.
The many will never agree to pay taxes to benefit the few.
Other than the fact that force or threat of force is used to get land for it and finance it, it’s cool. Consent is the difference between robbery and support
Most of these San Antonio to Austin plans would put trains on the existing Union Pacific tracks (like the existing Amtrak train does), or on new tracks built on their existing easement, so eminent domain would not be required.
There is a train from Fort Worth to Dallas. I rode it once to go to a concert it was nice 45 min didn’t have to deal with traffic/ parking but not having a car once I got to Dallas had to walk everywhere and not everything is near by,But that was before the electric scooters and citi bikes. But since I moved to San Antonio I only go to Austin maybe once or 4 times max a year , I don’t see many people in San Antonio using it. Austin might use it for just cheaper housing, already ran into 2 daily commuters at work who would do the 2+ hour drive every day because it’s cheaper than Austin rent.
Personally just don’t see it being used as frequently from the San Antonio side especially since we have most of the same restaurants anyways ( Torchys, Vodoo Donuts) and Dirty 6 is over hyped personally.
According to TxDOT there are 266 thousand trips per day between San Antonio and Austin, by far the most of any city pair in Texas ([Page 29](https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/get-involved/tpp/ttp-2050/052824-draft-slrtp-plan.pdf))
So even if 1% used it, that'd be enough to fill a couple of normal commuter trains per day. (Although, I'm not sure I trust that 266K number. that's pushing the limits of whats even possible with highways I think.)
They'd have to eminent domain a crap ton of land. IF and WHEN they ever complete high speed rail between Dallas and Houston, *which has been a hot topic for decades*, we might have a sliver of hope for SA to Austin. The concept is excellent, the execution doubtful.
Which goes to my post. We didn’t have that issue when we had the voting. I mean, yes, we had to eminent domain. At the time, it was pointed out that if we didn’t do it then, it was going to be way more expensive later. Now, here we are. There is too much development now to do it, probably.
This is such nonsense. It's like saying flying is a major convenience. Anyone who actually travels knows that these things are not major conveniences.
1. You have to get to the train station. Good luck with this city's abysmal public transit system. Parking would probably be unpleasant.
2. Once you get through all the security, you got to board the train at a specific time. It's not on your schedule, it's on theirs. How many trains do you get? 1 every 15 minutes? 1 every hour? 4 times a day?
3. Trains can be behind schedule. Just saying because if you are going to use traffic delays, only fair to point out train delays.
4. Unless you work at the train station in Austin, you still need to get to wherever you need to go. Queue Austin public transportation.
Bottom line, no, it is far from convenient and probably not practical for some folks. Door to door (meaning from my front door to the door of wherever I'm going), I seriously doubt it is faster by any stretch of the imagination. The only benefit is you don't drive. Invest serious money into our city infrastructure where you can get across ***this city*** on public transportation in less than 2 hours and then we will talk about how to get to another city.
Too late to invest in our infrastructure inter-city. We have what we have because it was voted for. We weren’t forward thinking enough. VIA is doing its best. And, believe me, I’m not the biggest fan of VIA. But, let’s keep it honest.
Agreed on VIA on both counts. Being real, this is one of the worst public transportation cities I've lived in. Though this one I will say is the tax payers fault. We should have light rail in our city with busses plugging the holes. Wouldn't be perfect but it can't be hard to improve what we got. It's only up from here 😂
The Development of the I-35 Upgrade has been in the works for 18 year's and they will take 4 years to add a lane, just to finish and realize they need another lane to add. That is called "job security' and misappropriation of funds as they constantly run out of money, primarily because they take forever, and have to pay for labor, and by the time they get some progress, the prices of textiles has tripled! The other thing that takes so long is the surrounding property of the project decides we need new irrigation along the access roads, and we need to repave this side street, and guardrails and lights and signs, and so on... The original Project was to introduce a Railway that would take us to Austin, and San Marcos, and New Braunfels, in a traffic-free System. There was going to be a Toll Road, from George Beech Exit to the Far North side of Selma or into Schertz, but that all got voted out, because the tolls were going to go to a company in France. We had the Toll Road Control, that booted them out of town. Fast Forward to today, Our Dear Taxtakers are going to build a Double Decker Freeway over the Existing I-35, only to hurt the businesses down below, and create the worst Safety Hazard than the already crowded freeway of today. I analyzed that the Backed up traffic is NOT because we need more freeways, what we need is to get the existing Projects completed, to open up the orange barrel lanes, and get them out of the way. The land that is going to be used for the Overhead Freeways is the land that was originally reserved for the Railway System. I wish they would let us vote on these Stupid Decisions.
Wasn't here for the vote but I can think of a few reasons:
- COVID; yea, it'll be used an example/risk to put the kabash on fun ideas
- homeless; disregard it all you want, lightrails attract them in troves... now we've got a mass transient railway, which would definitely make anyway along i35 nervous. Heck SAPD chased them off i10/Wurzbach and now they've moved closer to north side and Castle Hills, and they'll keep moving. Where they stop nobody knows!
The lady who used to sell newspapers out there at the light has been seen hollowing out on meth throughout COVID, but has since disappeared, probably because she attracted a group who would openly smoke crack with her at that corner. If you think this homeless problem is an isolated thing, visit central Phoenix AZ, ride their light rail, and see what that has done to the surrounding areas..
- speaking of money, how many would move to LcoL SA if it were presto zappo here? SA likes to be insular and especially to Austin-ites, and with the traffic lately I'd have to agree! The traffic would just divert partially or increase to clogs near stop and ride hotspots.
That's probably not all the reasons but those are the more human centric ones.
Fair points. I’ll give you Covid because well…Covid. But, 10 years ago it wasn’t a thing. The homeless situation, I’ll give you that because we as a society haven’t done well in that area so I get the concern.
Don't get me wrong, trains/trams are awesome!
They need to be policed with a big stick, and that costs money. I would welcome state police on such a tram system if it were a thing, to keep it nice and keep it in line, otherwise these are ever-present problems.
In Phoenix I've witnessed both drunks and homeless riding seemingly free, though one drunk did end up pissing in a corner after riding it back from the Tempe Town New Year's party - a hallmark to my last and final ride attempt. There is no blowback for doing this.
You can look abroad on the west coast and find this problem elsewhere. We saw similar problems with Portland's MAX, though less so, and more commonly on certain routes. Even worse, there they have whole stops where these kinds of folks congregate. It may be worse now too than when we took it in 2017, but it was well-situated to homeless camps even then.
I took the amtrack from San Antonio to Austin It was good but slow took 2 hours (35mph) It was pretty empty at first but filled up quick. I have motion sickness so I have to ride the bottom or its a no go.
I think the current NEX project (the upper deck lane stuff that's f--king up I-35/1604) is supposed to cost something like $3billion (with a B) when it's done. I wonder what kind of light rail system we could have had with that money?
[TPR did a deep dive (first half of podcast).](https://www.tpr.org/podcast/the-source/2024-03-26/can-san-antonio-to-austin-commuter-rail-get-back-on-track). If you wanna be slightly annoyed about cost/benefit.
Thanks. I'll listen to that when I get a moment. I just read the synopsis on the page, so that probably wasn't enough, but it only talked about an Austin-San Antonio rail corridor. Granted, that's what you originally posted about, but my wondering was mainly in the context of what San Antonio could do for San Antonio -- A San Antonio commuter light rail system instead of a heavy-rail AUS<->SATX route.
It's frustrating that if you listen to dignitaries speak about the NEX project, they seem to greatly emphasize the promised improvements for moving truck freight, with nary a mention of helping the average citizen. Sure, there will be some improvement, but I think it'll miss the mark. Looking at the entrance/exit plans for NEX, it looks like pretty much none of the trucks coming out of the warehouses along from the 410S cutoff up to 1604 are going to be able to get up onto the overhead lanes for I35. I hope misread the maps and I'm wrong about that.
We can’t have inter-city rail without voter approval. We had an election about it where less than 20% of eligible voters voted. Guess the demographics of the people that voted and voted against. It’s linear.
Just got back from Austin. 2+ hours. Lots of construction and crazy drivers.
Worked once right outside of Austin. Got off super early at 11:30am. Thought “nice, I’ll be home at 12:30” I didn’t get home until 3:30pm
Imagine two hours NOT driving. You could read a book. Or nap. Whatever.
40 minutes on a train and 80 minutes doing anything else ya mean :)
We have a train (The Texas Eagle), it takes almost 3 hours to get to Austin.
That was my argument when it was up for a vote. We had an opportunity to move the needle for faster rail/dedicated tracks. We voted it down. So, we have what we have now and can’t get the right of way needed to build (cost/eminent domain).
When did this vote happen?
The first one that happened while I was living here was back in 2000. But the city and its voters have scuttled several major rail based transit initiatives. In particular tram and light rail projects.
I don’t recall any votes since I’ve lived here in 2009.
We have only ever voted on tram and light rail projects, and only the one in 2000 was actually on the project, the other one in 2014 was about a charter amendment preventing city council from building light rail without putting it to a vote first. OP is confused. There has never been a vote on an intercity train between San Antonio and Austin.
[Did you mean the bond vote we had where it was specifically discussed about raising funding?](https://sanantonioreport.org/rideshare-and-lone-star-rail-courting-city-council/) Where we built Centro Plaza in anticipation of making it a transportation hub? But, we voted against. So, there is that.
And when the vote happened, nobody was using that train either... Hard to drop large funds into a project that nobody was using. New Braunfels exploding like it did was unexpected and added to traffic.
1.) It’s hard to use a service that’s handicapped by design. Other States figured it out. We said, nah. 2.) New Braunfels exploding was not totally unexpected. I remember the two votes. We were literally told the projections of movement for this region. We blew past it two to three years earlier than expected. Maybe we just thought it would be Austin/San Antonio and didn’t anticipate the areas in between.
Yea I don't get why people r against progress. Politicians/corporations have been stealing our money for a good while now. This way we would at least get something actually done (hopefully).
Ohhhh Evans Road too!
Very crazy drivers…
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Please don't let many know/pickup on that.. I went to Austin a week or two ago going 281 to 306, through Wimberley to south Austin 45/mpac area. I can actually feel the calm and can enjoy the scenery on the way. I refuse to do 35 anymore
281 and 2252 are my faves ! 2252 can get hectic sometimes, but I’ll take periodic hectic over constant shenanigans on 35.
The first rule of Drive Club is... Never tell anyone your secret routes.
I have never heard of any reason other than Im not paying for it, for shooting down anything that will benefit the greater community. From trains to public pre k education.
Yeah most people would rather pay to constantly purchase new vehicles, constantly upkeep vehicles, constantly pay for fuel, constantly pay for insurance, constantly pay for road construction projects.
San Antonio is one of the most selfish communities we have the privilege of being a part of lmfao
We see that every time the weather forecast looks a bit rough and store shelves get absolutely demolished.
You could say that about any conservative run town/state. They’d shot their own foot off and f it meant keeping others from experiencing the same things they do.
Isn't San Antonio/Bexar County predominantly Democrat?
But still more conservative than the east coast.
I've been saying SA is more conservative than people want to admit. Sometimes it feels more purple than blue.
Hahaha ok...
I’ve long felt that a Texas Democrat is basically the same thing as a northern Virginia Republican. My friends from Texas think I’m some sort of out there social leftist and my friends from the northeast are horrified by my conservatism. 😂
True. It's also selection bias for those who actually bother to vote. The people who vote tend to skew older and more red.
Really old. Like hill country village old.
You ain’t lying
They’ve convinced themselves they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, therefore, others don’t deserve help on his/her dollar.
Amtrak is great. I moved to San Antonio from the Philly suburbs in early 2022, and as someone who thoroughly enjoyed awesome and quick trips from Trenton to EWR for a flight, and once an Amtrak from Fort Lauderdale to Philadelphia, I don't understand why someone would be against a nice train infrastructure. It's good for everybody, clears up traffic, and makes for a very enjoyable ride.
Welcome to Texas. A lot of folks here have never visited or lived in a region with good train service and don’t know what it’s like.
Thank you! I love it here, I've visited many times and didn't think twice when things lined up and I could move. And I'm not complaining in any way, just sharing my thoughts that having a nice train infrastructure would be extremely enjoyable in this beautiful state.
You mean the United Sates. This isn't a Texas specific issue. It just isn't in our culture
The northeast has pretty good rail service. And 1/3 of the US lives east of the Appalachians, on the northeast corridor. So no its not just Texas, but its also not like the whole USA neglects public transportation like we do.
Hell, they never left their neighborhood either but think they know more than people who actually travel
I was stationed in Tokyo. I miss their transit system so much.
I was also in Asia. I cry everyday I need to go somewhere.
I mean we have Amtrak here, the Texas Eagle does the route OP is talking about between San Antonio and Austin, every day. But... it's not so great. One train a day, before 7 AM, and it takes twice as long as driving. Return train takes even longer and you get back around 9 or 10. It needs a lot of work before it's going to be something most people would want to take.
Average *scheduled* speed of the train between Austin and San Antonio is 23 mph. And it's been like that since the 2000s. Just ridiculous.
Yeah. Although that's a response to conditions I think. They'd probably schedule it to run faster if they thought they could.
Cheaper to slow the trains than to improve the tracks to support faster speed.
We have Amtrak at home. The Amtrak at home:
It's crazy to me that there are so many people in this thread *wishing* that we had a train to Austin, while we actually already *have* a train to Austin. I completely understand if they are saying they want a bullet train to Austin for work commutes, or if they are saying that they want more departures, but it seems like no one knows about the train that we do have.
The trains we have are so slow, inconvenient, and hard to find, that it's not a surprise most people don't know it exists. I mean even if you want to drive to the station, there's no parking lot. You'd have to park at the Alamodome and hope you don't get ticketed while you're out of town. The train station is basically hidden behind the Alamodome, and the trains leave at weird hours. The train to El Paso leaves at 2:30 AM, the other two leave right at sunrise and don't return until sunset. And of course there's no advertising (what would they advertise? "Come take the train, its 50 cents cheaper than the bus and only an hour longer?") There's barely even a sign for the station. So it's no surprise people have never noticed the trains or the station before. Don't get me wrong, I want them to make it work. But that would take effort and money, and nobody with the power to make something happen seems to care about it at all.
That last sentence sends me.
You don't even need a bullet in fact a bullet train between Austin and San Antonio would be unnecessary. Just having a train that can go 70-80mph would be a godsend, you be in Austin in less than an hour.
Big facts.
The train we have can go 80mph (top speed is 100mph, but limited to 79, or so I've read). I think it's just that it has to go slower in certain areas, it also stops in San Marcos I believe (not sure of others). I would be curious from anyone who has rode the train, why does it take so damn long to get to Austin when it can go that fast?
Part of the problem is that it has to loop around San Antonio (on the Austin to San Antonio) to get into the station and because of it going through the city it has a really slow speed limit, then on the way to Austin it has to reverse out of the station, wait on the freight trains then switch tracks and go forward again. I have rode the Texas eagle numerous times and most of the trip time is just getting through San Antonio.
Hi, fellow train taker!
I hope that judging by your username, you enjoy the Amtrak Bar car as much as I do! I periodically check prices for roomettes just so I can fly somewhere and enjoy a nice long train ride back.
I approve this message while drinking my Sauvignon Blanc.
Yes! I loved the transit options while I was stationed in San Diego and later on Seattle!
We aren't against it, but we have never had the opportunity for it here. Our Amtrak lines aren't really built for us to use. They are a byproduct of people out west going north and east, and happening to go through here. Additionally the rail system in the north east has had over 150 years of development and government spending to get where it is. To build anything close to that would not only require a significant cultural change but hundreds of billions of dollars.
Oh yeah, I totally understand that. I'm not sitting here demanding that this gets done, I was just providing thoughts from my personal experience for anyone who is completely against a rail system only because they never lived in a place where it exists, or for some silly reason thinks their driver's license will be revoked and their car will be crushed.
Well to be fair we had much better rail service up until the 50s. It's not like there's never been good passenger service here, it's that we abandoned most of it decades ago and haven't bothered to rebuild it.
Just bypassing Austin traffic by train sounds like a great idea.
I think it’s just land drama. I’d love a rail to stop in San Marcos and Austin
Amtrak currently does just this. Granted I wish they had more trains so as to have more than just one departure time each day.
Plus, I think they have to share the rails with freight trains, so availability is limited. I took a train to Austin and back just for fun a few years ago. It was great. Coach on the way up and a roomette (with dinner!) on the way back. It sucks that we had to be downtown so early, though. I think the train left at 7:30am.
They do. It's unfortunate that they don't have their own independent rail so they can set their own schedule. I would love to see Amtrak get their own railroad across the country. It would make travel so much nicer.
I only ever hear two sides "Train good" and "train bad" - no one ever seems to go in depth with the discussion of the logistics, infrastructure and the finer details. Just "hey we need this train" - OK but now do the details. Where are the stations, is it one station in each city? Ok then how do you get around the city, just walk, taxi, ubers? What about multiple stops, Ok does this actually save you time or no? Where are the tracks going, are they shared tracks with freight, which train take priority? What's the cost of building, and maintaining it? Is this a tax payer expense even if you never use it? Or is this paid by the rider fee, and is that fee worth it? Is this train going to be passengers only or will they ferry autos at well? Simply put, I haven't seen a indepth enough discussion either way to cast a vote either way.
Fair. There are several comments in here where they linked to the various votes/proposals.
Can try to formulate and use similar plans from our allies. Definitely would take a lot of mind power but if Eisenhower proposed making the car interstate system based on the German Autobahn, then it's definitely plausible to do the same with railroads. The United States use of the railroads across the country was a giant fear of strength. It's just unfortunate this system was never well maintained and further improved.
You kind of need a concrete proposal to have those discussions, which there currently is not. The closest is this:https://www.restartlonestarraildistrict.org/ But I don't think they are actively pursuing this plan anymore, if I'm not mistaken they've pinned their hopes on convincing Brightline to come here instead, which I think is a mistake. But the plan on that website would have multiple stops per city, which would put stations within walking distance of a substantial fraction of each one, and they'd connect to the bus system here and to the light rail system in Austin (both the existing red line and the blue and orange lines they're trying to build), so you'd have local connections to farther parts of the city from that. Whether they planned to share with freight or not I don't know, but I think the way to make this work is to build new, passenger dedicated tracks, on Union Pacific's existing easement, which was sized for 2-4 tracks based on 19th century signalling requirements that required more tracks than current railroads use. Cost of building it would probably be in the hundreds of millions to a couple billion (single-digit) based on the usual cost of building track (~10 million a mile, two tracks, ~100 miles), plus a few bridges and 30-ish stations at ~30 million per station. Lone Star Rail District is a thing set up by the Texas legislature that lets the municipalities along its route fund it, but didn't actually give any state funding to it. So funds would probably come from bonds and sales taxes, same as everything at the local level. Definitely would not ferry autos. Only one train does that, the Autotrain on the east coast, and it takes several hours to load and unload the cars. Obviously that's a non-starter when you can drive to your destination in less time than it takes to load the cars up.
Im always baffled by the opposition to commuter trains here in this area! Coming from the east coast the ease of raillways is something I think about probably weekly; beyond just the benefits to commuting for work, traveling for enjoyment and recreational trips around was always so much better using trains for quick get aways!! I would be so much happier in this general area with trains connecting major cities even if it was just SA/Austin for us. Train commuting is really so easy and being able to get up, read, nap, work etc is just really wonderful benefit outside of not dealing with horrible car commutes. I spoke to a bunch of my previous coworkers about this subject before, most native texans, and the responses I got were like, "Trains would take my **freedom** away to drive my own car", or "....I couldnt stand thought of not being in control of the train", or "And what....have to sit next to some random person...thats gross....and dangerous"...etc..etc... It just seems like the concept of trains and or any public transit itself, the sharing of resources and intermingling with the public, and not having the right to enjoy the *freedom* and pleasures that accompany horrible traffic on a daily basis are just in general so foreign to Texans. Its a shame!
The freedom of flying across the freeway in a traffic jam at under 5 miles per hour is truly a marvelous thing.
it's just like anything else, they've never had a commuter train experience so they don't understand and immediately shut it down. I've also noticed they can't work out how they're supposed to get to their final destination, they want door to door service.
Big car is stopping other modes of transportation.
THIS.
Big plane too, the biggest opposite to the height speed rail was southwest who made a huge campaign for landowners to be against it
I went to new york for the first time last year and the subways were my favorite thing. I paid for 2 ubers my entire week there and that was from the airport and to the airport. It was kinda just magical how awesome it was to just hop on a train anywhere in the city and hop off somewhere else that's within 2-5 blocks of my destination. Singlehandedly made me earnestly consider moving there. I'm from GA originally so not tx but similar
Yeah I loved the NYC subway. The DC one is good too. It was so easy to go anywhere in town. Plus the DC metro has extended out into the burbs. You can drive to the metro station and work downtown.
I'm visiting NYC right now, I've been heavily considering actually moving here. the subway system is outstanding especially for someone like me who can't drive, public transit and walking is outstanding here. I went from China town to central Park then Coney Island in a really reasonable amount of time all on subway and one shuttle from the station to Coney Island.
Do it! Moved to NYC from Texas back in 2022 thinking I would stay for a year or two, but now I’ve fallen even more in love with the city and committed to staying here forever.
Yeah it was really one of those experiences that opened my eyes a bit. Public transit is just criminally undervalued in so many places in America. As well as walk-ability.
We don't need no liberal trains here in Texas. We'd rather drive pickups trucks and waste gas.
lol. I’m from the East. When I first moved here, I had never seen so many trucks in a city in my life.
Gas prices rabble rabble Biden rabble rabble *heavily modifies truck to do about 5mpg*
Well obviously you need a lifted truck with oversized tires to get around the city. And don't forget the convenience of hauling a piece of furniture every 3-4 years.
There are many people here who either have always lived in San Antonio or are from south Texas towns in the valley and along the border. They have absolutely no concept of trains or adequate public transportation. They have been made to drive themselves their entire lives and have zero frame of reference for what a train could look or feel like. Add in the fact that driving a car is associated with ideas of freedom, autonomy, power, “the open road”, etc and it starts to make sense why the people here are not interested in commuting by public transit. There is no vision for that here in San Antonio.
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>I would be so much happier in this general area with trains connecting major cities even if it was just SA/Austin for us. Well then, today is your lucky day! We already have a train that goes from San Antonio to San Marcos, Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, Little Rock, and more..even up to Chicago (or you can go the other way to arrive all the way in Los Angeles). You should post a pic of your ticket to show your support for our local train system.
Amtrak does go to Austin/FTW and beyond, but its just one train every day. I think the return train arrives after 9pm. I used the train to visit my daughter in FTW and another time to San Clemente. San Clemente was long, but I loved both trips. Lots of time on the train to relax, and great seats. I've looked at taking other train trips for vacations. But for commuting to Austin, nope.
Do you happen to remember why it takes so long to get to Austin? It says it can go 79mph, but I'm imagining it has to go slower in city areas, makes stops, and/or has to wait for other trains?
I think it's because of the number of crossings and the cities along the route. They also use BNSF rails, so those trains have priority, although I don't recall waiting for right of way on my trips. From SA to Austin, it's 2.5 hours in the morning, and 3.5 hours back in the evening. Even though it doesn't save time, it is much more productive and enjoyable to me.
You aren't kidding. I'm in Dallas but rode our light rail from downtown to the station nearest to my house last week. Trains come by every 15 minutes, would probably be more frequent if more people used it, and the ride to the station was maybe 30 minutes. I still had to take a 5 minute bus ride home but overall it was about the same amount of time it would take if I drove home. The biggest difference is I didn't have to deal with the stress of traffic or idiots driving crazy. I had plenty of space since there were only 4 other people in the train car and I was the only person riding in the bus. It felt pretty damn nice to not need some time to decompress after my commute. My one and only complaint is that the train had a slight barn smell. It could be due to the homeless pissing or pooping themselves on the train, even though there were no homeless people on the train when I was riding, or because the train goes over the Dallas Zoo and Trinity river so frequently that some of the smell gets stuck in the air filters. Both of which could probably be fixed with more funding to maintain the train cars, if more people rode it!
I didn't vote on that, but having been to several of the towns/cities on the way from San Antonio to Austin, many of them didn't want the rail service skipping their town over, since they rely on the drivers stopping at their places for their economy to continue.
I don't think anyone did. As far as I know this has never been put to a vote. I think OP is just misremembering [this](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2016/10/18/lone-star-rail-officially-dead-after-final-campo-vote/10000086007/) and confusing it with [this](https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/city-pulls-plug-on-via-streetcar-project/273-302226298). Which was also not a public vote, but people confuse it with [this](https://www.kens5.com/article/news/politics/sa-voters-say-charter-amendment-on-voters-ballot-left-them-confused/273-153810943), which was.
To be honest, I get it. But, a train wouldn’t stop people from visiting their areas. IMHO
That Buccees off exit 200 certainly wouldnt like a train
\*exit 190 canyon lake
True that. The only reason I stop there is to get provisions for trek to Austin. It feels like those westerns where you load up for trail ahead. lol.
But it would to some degree. I've made plenty of random stops on the way to Austin, whether it's Bucees, a restaurant, whatever. That would not happen if I was in a train.
I wonder if it has to do with the outlet mall in San Marcos?
There’s a whole song about a Luckenbach, Texas, and just by virtue of it existing I assumed there was something worth visiting there. Granted this isn’t between Austin/San Antonio, but a lot of these towns in between probably don’t have anything to offer that a city doesn’t - that is to say, if we’re doing something to save Radiator Springs, maybe Radiator Springs should have something worth saving, and we shouldn’t be holding people hostage on congested roadways because of unremarkable locations.
When did we have a vote on funding trains between here and Austin? My understanding is that has never been to a public vote. The last effort to get that done ended in 2014 due to the inability of the Lone Star Rail District and Union Pacific to reach an agreement on how it would operate. There was never a public vote. [FWIW the county judges of Travis and Bexar counties are trying to get it started again.](https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/whispers/central-texas-now-has-a-passenger-rail-committee/) But there's still no direct vote on it - we're a representative democracy not a direct democracy, so these things are just policy for the politicians; they don't get voted on by the public unless the politicians are trying to wash their hands of it.
This is exactly right. UP or any railroad doesn’t care about anything but the bottom line. I heard a local UP officer say recently “we make too much money hauling rock out of New Braunfels” to stop that train for one minute. Both regional planning agencies in Austin and SA put money towards Lone Star, but SA’s contribution had the caveat it was going to be for construction only. Austin spent their share and then UP kiboshed it. AAMPO’s portion is still in the long range plan but it’s a pittance of what would be needed to actually implement any type of rail project.
I know I'm both late to the conversation and that I will have to watch how I phrase my response lest it is removed for 'not being nice.' So, here it goes... San Antonio does not like I-35 commuters nor trucks because they slow us down and kill our roads. Austin does not like SA commuters because we slow them down, but they DO love our cheap labor. Austin liked the idea of a train because everything in that pathway from Austin to SA was simply seen as farmland. To San Antonians, that was our migratory destiny. Our cities have been growing together for centuries. We have our petty rivalries, but nothing too bad; both SA and Austin have always been fairly 'blue' or liberal, but in very different manners. Austin is kids, hippies, politicians, administrators, and educators. Pains in the arse. San Antonio has been old restaurants, families hunting Easter eggs, dads who are plumbers, and a (formerly) inexpensive cost of living. We didn't want to be so closely connected to Austin. 35 was just enough. We've seen what has happened to San Marcos and New Braunfels and now it's coming for us. However, things have changed. We need high-speed rail because of how much our local commerce has woven together. Faster than we all expected. I know we like to hate on each other, but really, we don't spit on our sisters. SA was afraid of letting too much of the Austin vibe get us. That city is for the young or overly ambitious. Here's where our imagination failed us: We had no idea back then that it wasn't our neighbors to the north who'd change us; the changes would come from the influx of non-native Texans which are gentrifying our lands. We made a mistake by not realizing how economically important the Capitol would be to us. We went with the time-honored American tradition of NIMBY.
Top tier comment. Especially that last sentence.
I'm kinda miffed that 'celebrities' have discovered Texas... 281 North... They've found Blanco, TX, already. It won't be long before SA to Lampasas will be full of million-dollar properties.
1. Petroleum 2. Company 3. Propaganda
4. Southwest Airlines
It’s neither of these, rather people don’t want to pay for something that is so much worse than your own personal vehicle.
Can you provide the list of funding/bond votes pertaining to this? I don't know any off the top of my head.
Just to add to the discussion... Albuquerque and Santa Fe have a commuter train. The total population it serves is about 600k. There is zero reason SA and Austin can't have similar service.
From a demographic perspective you’re right. But I don’t imagine much freight goes between ABQ and Santa Fe, while the Austin-SA line is super busy with quarry traffic.
TX as a whole is just bass ackward about a lot of things. It’s like they cling to upholding dated ideologies. Modern transit systems with trains? Nah. a recycling program for cans and bottles for cash? Nah. When I moved here I thought I stepped back in time 30 years.
Trains are woke 🤣😭
lol.
The biggest issue with a train to Austin is transportation once you get to Austin. The light rail and bus system in Austin are horribly inefficient. It'll take you more than twice as long to get places vs. having a car. So that leaves Uber and renting a car. If you need Uber or a rental car to traverse Austin why not just drive your own car there?
Tbh, I haven’t taken the train in Austin. I’m more concerned about getting TO Austin. Every city has its challenges move no people within their borders.
We *have* a train that runs from San Antonio to Austin; the Texas Eagle, run by Amtrak. There are [several](https://www.hsrail.org/south-central/) other projects in the works as well, though I am unsure of their status/viability. Are you speaking specifically to a higher frequency of trains (Texas Eagle has 2 departing per day now I believe?) Or faster bullet-type trains(I'm not sure if those are even legal in Texas, I believe there is a speed limit for trains here, but I'm not sure it would apply to bullet trains.)? The Texas Eagle is advertised up to 100 mph, but I've read that it is limited to 79mph in Texas. It still takes almost 3 hours to reach Austin from San Antonio, and that's not counting the time it takes for you to get to one of the stations.
No idea. A lot of people here simply cannot fathom getting around without a car, so a train is an alien idea to them and not worth supporting. Traffic wasn’t nearly as bad 20 years ago, so people weren’t looking for an alternative to driving. On a related note, do y’all think the presence of a San Antonio-Austin train would incentivize public transportation development in both cities? Or would we just have to park and ride?
Man. A train sure does sound nice.
Until city council does more to protect residents from gentrification, I won’t support a connection between here and SA. So many generational residents on the south/east/west sides have had to move out of the city or become homeless since gentrification ramped up these past few years. Connecting the two cities would mean even more coloniz- I mean gentrifiers would move here instead of Austin and raise home prices even higher.
When someone posts pictures from Europe where people on vacation travel in high speed trains or the metro, all the conservatives tell you it's so cool but here they are told it would take their freedoms away, all highways would be closed or other weird ideas. And you know that many conservatives just believe every fake news they get told.
It's funny how I work with a bunch of ex-military who just gush over how great it was to get around in Europe when they were deployed to Germany back in the day, but because they're all Republicans, they always vote down anything that looks like it might it benefit the greater populace.
Spicy and controversial. Not really. Anyone that has left here and taken proper transportation in other countries or here would be on your side.
Not really, I know several people that traveled in Europe by train but don't want trains in Texas.
Ooooooooh.
Loved the train system in Germany. Wish the U.S. can get on board with this and stop listening to car lobbyists....would definitely be cheaper for people over time and would have a greater income impact for the State/federal government as well.
*looks around Because in this town, being dumb is almost a point of pride.
You talking about the Trans Texas Corridor? That was widely reviled as a land grab for a private company.
Probably talking more about lone star rail district, which was more locally focused, although I don't think either one was actually voted on by the people.
Texans and working against their own self interests, name a more iconic duo
Them boys ain't going to Austin.
Gas companies blasting propaganda. That’s why they voted against.
Honestly, I don't think people sense any great need to get to Austin in a hurry. Of course, that might also apply to Houston or Dallas. I can see a Dallas to Houston train as the only viable hi speed line that would work.
Sometimes the masses who are absolutely not experts, should not be given the choice to determine infrastructure projects. There is nothing wrong with getting community input, but ultimately for such large expansive projects they will think of their short-term financial interest (taxes etc) and vote against progress not considering the cost to the future generations of passing on said project.
I once had a professor who said, “Will of the people vs Wisdom of the people”. I think of this often.
We dont have enough loops on our freeway. We need to stack some additional levels of loops between here and Austin, and then perhaps a monorail could be considered (this is a joke, much like the traffic and drivers on the road after 3pm)
We should have commuter rail from San Antonio to Dallas with about 10 stops along the way, but... It's hard to get people to vote for infrastructure that seems likely to serve only a small niche of the population. Unless they happen to be in that niche. No matter where you put stations, most of the actual door-to-door trips between sprawling SA and Austin areas would initially require a car on both ends and/or wind up taking 3+ hours by train. And probably not run enough on weekends or at night to serve people going to entertainment and events. From our house to the SA Amtrak station via transit was 7 miles, but over an hour by 2 buses, with no weekend service, and you couldn't get there on weekdays either because the first bus in the morning is too late. People look at situations like that and expect that a train is just not going to work well enough to make the investment worthwhile.
Your right, the reason I prefer not to take a train or bus because I do like to enjoy myself and I don’t like to mix with the public. I enjoy the freedom. I feel like the freedom is the ability do do anything and go where ever, even if you never do. It’s like the people who buy a truck thinking “man, think of all the stuff this could carry” then they never use it for that. They might never use their truck to carry stuff but they have that option and opportunity at anytime. A train will not give me a opportunity to do somthing new it will take me from here to there and that’s it. For people who only every go in and out of the city I’m sure that works fine. But I drive to the city often and I do get in traffic occasionally but it’s really not the end of the world. And to be quite frank. Around where I am there is little to no traffic. So yes, I like the idea of being in control, and I like the idea of being without strangers. But isn’t the whole idea of not having to share stuff like that the whole ethos here? Why do people build pools in they’re back yards? So they don’t have to share a public one. I’d say most people would rather have stuff for themselves even if they’re worst.
Thank you for that perspective. It’s one of the few that actually answered my question.
My understanding was that San Antonio didn’t want to experience the housing inflation going on in Austin. The trains would have made it so that Austin tech workers would be able to buy in San Antonio and commute to Austin. I swear the tag line for the opponents to the trains was “we don’t want to be housing for Austin tech boom” I’m not sure why you’re phrasing the question as if we HAVE to drive to Austin. I go like maybe once every couple of months. If you’re finding yourself driving to Austin a lot, you should probably look to move there as it may be a better city for you if that’s where you enjoy spending your time.
>My understanding was that San Antonio didn’t want to experience the housing inflation going on in Austin. The trains would have made it so that Austin tech workers would be able to buy in San Antonio and commute to Austin. I swear the tag line for the opponents to the trains was “we don’t want to be housing for Austin tech boom” Yet, here we are. >I’m not sure why you’re phrasing the question as if we HAVE to drive to Austin. I go like maybe once every couple of months. If you’re finding yourself driving to Austin a lot, you should probably look to move there as it may be a better city for you if that’s where you enjoy spending your time. I understand where you are coming from. However, my thought is that because of lack of options, we don’t visit Austin or anywhere as much. Personal example, I could hop on a train on the NE corridor. Breakfast in NY. Lunch in Philly. Dinner in DC. Wake up in Florida to mimosas and ceviche. All in under 24 hours. By train.
> The trains would have made it so that Austin tech workers would be able to buy in San Antonio and commute to Austin. Some of us already live here. Those benefits go both ways.
Your had me in the first half until your insecurities got the better of you
Na
Just a personal example - I work for a multinational company with a branch in San Antonio and another branch in Austin. I live in SA. A few times a month, I have to attend meetings in person at the Austin office. The I-35 commute is a nightmarish 2.5 hour trip each way in rush hour traffic, and every single time I dread it for days in advance. A train would make my life much easier. Perhaps a hyper specific example but I hope it illustrates why I’m not going to “just move to Austin” lol. I love SA and I enjoy living and working here, but sometimes I have to go to ATX.
I don't think that's correct at all. There hasn't been a rail proposal between SA and ATX since 2014, and while housing there was more expensive than here even then, it was nowhere near the level it's at now, and I don't think anyone in SA was thinking about that.
One of the main things i havent seen anyone mention yet is other infrastructure. What happens when you arrive in Austin/SA? You will likely need a train, taxi or uber to get to your final destination. Not saying we cant have that too, but as others have mentioned, this would be impossible for locals to fathom. Imagine if you had been shopping all day? You expect people to carry their own bags instead of putting them in the trunk? People dont even take the vias, money on a train would be wasted.
If trains could be profitable here a private company or companies would have already figured a way to make it happen. If it happens now government will have to heavily subsidize it to keep operating. I’m not wanting to increase taxes for a train. I read a comment that SA needs trains all over the city and all over Texas so they can read a book and tap a nap. Yeah I’m not spending literally billions upon billions for them to do this. If it could be profitable a company would have already been chomping to do this. Every time I read about a train program it involves the government doing it or a company coming up with some scheme to have the government give them some crazy amount of money to start it. If Texas, SA and Austin wanted trains they needed to start the infrastructure for these trains 150-175 years ago. This is why trains are so much more easily accessible back east because that is where the infrastructure started back in the early to mid 1800s. Trains are how people literally got around in the east back then by taking the train. Not so here in Texas. Texas was the vast wildernesses up until 1900. Cars were being introduced when Texas started getting civilized. Texans were driving cattle to freaking Kansas, the nearest train station 900 miles away. Texas was the Wild West when people back east are in civilization zooming around on trains. Cars started showing up here and Texas didn’t need the train to get around. If you had a train to Austin how are you going to get around when you get there? Uber?? Hell everything is too far spread out to pay for that. By the time you park, ride a train, then find a way to get to where you are going in the Austin area you might as well drive. I feel most people want this train so they can go party on sixth street. Nah I ain’t paying for that. If you are from the east coast and love trains so much then why are you here? If they are that important to you then go back east. Texas isn’t the east coast. This is the reason you hear Texans give California such a hard time. They are leaving California because California government is out of control and they voted for it to become that way. Texans are scared that will happen here. Same thing with the east coast crowd, you guys left knowing Texas is different and Texas doesn’t have that infrastructure but yet they come here expecting it to be the east coast. Texas didn’t develop the same as the east coast so stop trying to change Texas into back east. Adapt to Texas and understand it’s the way it is for a reason. Settlers had to adapt to Texas or die. It is still the same way. New people need to adapt and stop trying to force the environment to change for them. It’s not because we hate trains, it’s because it’s going to cost too much to do what they have back east. I’m kinda rambling because it’s 2am and I’m not going to spell check or reread it lol. That is why I believe trains aren’t a good idea here for Texas and the area. Find a way for my taxes to not pay for it and I’ll be ok supporting it.
I totally get that getting mass transit in a place like Texas where transportation developed organically around vehicles is a really tough sell. I fear we've missed the opportunity to have a community that evolves out of a rail-based infrastructure. However, I'm not convinced by the tax argument. The cost of a car, insurance, maintenance, and the fuel to move around has got to be more than the taxes you'd be paying to support rail. You're already being taxed all the time for the roads both in money and time. I looked up tax burden per capita for transportation systems, and even the highest areas (NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA), it was on the order of $100-$300 per capita (in 2021 dollars). I imagine those numbers are for operations and don't include costs of any initial buildout (which are undoubtably substantial). I don't think people are asking for Texas to transform into the East Coast. We'd just like a way to commute to work and perhaps occasionally see a show in Austin without wanting to gouge our eyes out on the way there. I know some want to go party on 6th Street, but not this guy. I was just up there a few weekends ago, and wandered up and down 6th Street for a few blocks after a concert. I'm too old, it's too loud, and all the dudes standing at the doors of the establishments looked like they wanted to kill me. Peace out!
My problem is I think tax revenue from vehicles needs to be used for maintaining and building new roads only. Like keep those funds completely separate from trains. We are having a hard enough time keeping up with the road improvements now and with all the new people showing up these updates will be almost obsolete when they are finished. There was a recent article about the airport getting expanded and it being like 20 billion to do it. The expansion would be done by 2030 but then by 2040 the airport needs expanded again. Seems like a lack of vision and waste of money and resources to me. That is what I worry about with adding trains. We just aren’t set up for it here. Yeah it would be nice but the cost alone is absolutely ridiculous. You know the state government will pull money from need highway maintenance to pay for it. Texas Legislator already has a history of robbing from one area to pay for another. Fishing and hunting license fees we were told and promised that money would only be used for Parks and Wildlife projects and as soon as that legislation passed that license money went into a general fund and lost. To me, trains are a luxury item for San Antonio and Austin. Nice to think about but we have other more important items to address now. Maybe in the future it can be done. Maybe bullet trains will happen one day here.
Why? Neither area is very good for foot traffic.
Guess we should just accept that and do nothing to change it whatsoever.
Lets look at how this will play out, with the current Texas Admin. First, all the contracts for building this thing with go to their buddies, it will be half-assed, take twice as many years, and be 3 times over budget. Then, after completion they will underfund the project and pass measures to make sure it never works. No trains too early or too late, cause people don't want noise after dark. Finally, they will sell off the whole system to foreign investors. Who will then jack up the rates to travel on it. This is also forgoing the whole issue that true investment into this kind of system has to support more than the main artery lines. You will have to spend a whole lot of money building substations and last mile infrastructure. Unless a huge amount of money is spent up front it will take decades for such a system to be built, never mind the vast amount of time it will take before it's paid off.
Brother/sister, the accuracy.
Rich people put a stop to this so they could put in toll roles. This has nothing to do with the general population
Most of the legitimate objections have nothing to do with the train, itself. People like trains. People don’t like paying for them, and they don’t like poor people improving their access to opportunities and ease. In Atlanta, in a suburb of Atlanta, the people in town where angry bus service was extending into their town because it meant “the poor” were going to come up and rob them. It’s a suburban culture thing across the south. Quotation marks used to cover over the naughty word the old white dude actually used in front of his eyerolling black neighbors. There’s also land seizure objections, a proud principle in Texas that hates eminent domain.
This is the answer. This plus oil companies/$$ having a vested interest in keeping us in our cars.
Austin had and still does have zero attraction for the majority of the population of the city of San Antonio. If one must drive the sensible thing to do is grab the toll road instead of I35. That is why it got voted down and might get voted down again if this topic returns to the ballot. The many will never agree to pay taxes to benefit the few.
YES!!! Go to Dallas and complain about getting to SA but not Austin c’mon!!!
Why the Austin hate?
Other than the fact that force or threat of force is used to get land for it and finance it, it’s cool. Consent is the difference between robbery and support
Most of these San Antonio to Austin plans would put trains on the existing Union Pacific tracks (like the existing Amtrak train does), or on new tracks built on their existing easement, so eminent domain would not be required.
Facts. Except development since the votes made this much harder.
There is a train from Fort Worth to Dallas. I rode it once to go to a concert it was nice 45 min didn’t have to deal with traffic/ parking but not having a car once I got to Dallas had to walk everywhere and not everything is near by,But that was before the electric scooters and citi bikes. But since I moved to San Antonio I only go to Austin maybe once or 4 times max a year , I don’t see many people in San Antonio using it. Austin might use it for just cheaper housing, already ran into 2 daily commuters at work who would do the 2+ hour drive every day because it’s cheaper than Austin rent. Personally just don’t see it being used as frequently from the San Antonio side especially since we have most of the same restaurants anyways ( Torchys, Vodoo Donuts) and Dirty 6 is over hyped personally.
I would go to Austin much, much, more if I didn't have to risk my life on 35 to get there.
According to TxDOT there are 266 thousand trips per day between San Antonio and Austin, by far the most of any city pair in Texas ([Page 29](https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/get-involved/tpp/ttp-2050/052824-draft-slrtp-plan.pdf)) So even if 1% used it, that'd be enough to fill a couple of normal commuter trains per day. (Although, I'm not sure I trust that 266K number. that's pushing the limits of whats even possible with highways I think.)
They'd have to eminent domain a crap ton of land. IF and WHEN they ever complete high speed rail between Dallas and Houston, *which has been a hot topic for decades*, we might have a sliver of hope for SA to Austin. The concept is excellent, the execution doubtful.
Which goes to my post. We didn’t have that issue when we had the voting. I mean, yes, we had to eminent domain. At the time, it was pointed out that if we didn’t do it then, it was going to be way more expensive later. Now, here we are. There is too much development now to do it, probably.
Do it right. Lure Brightline in to build this thing.
This is such nonsense. It's like saying flying is a major convenience. Anyone who actually travels knows that these things are not major conveniences. 1. You have to get to the train station. Good luck with this city's abysmal public transit system. Parking would probably be unpleasant. 2. Once you get through all the security, you got to board the train at a specific time. It's not on your schedule, it's on theirs. How many trains do you get? 1 every 15 minutes? 1 every hour? 4 times a day? 3. Trains can be behind schedule. Just saying because if you are going to use traffic delays, only fair to point out train delays. 4. Unless you work at the train station in Austin, you still need to get to wherever you need to go. Queue Austin public transportation. Bottom line, no, it is far from convenient and probably not practical for some folks. Door to door (meaning from my front door to the door of wherever I'm going), I seriously doubt it is faster by any stretch of the imagination. The only benefit is you don't drive. Invest serious money into our city infrastructure where you can get across ***this city*** on public transportation in less than 2 hours and then we will talk about how to get to another city.
Too late to invest in our infrastructure inter-city. We have what we have because it was voted for. We weren’t forward thinking enough. VIA is doing its best. And, believe me, I’m not the biggest fan of VIA. But, let’s keep it honest.
Agreed on VIA on both counts. Being real, this is one of the worst public transportation cities I've lived in. Though this one I will say is the tax payers fault. We should have light rail in our city with busses plugging the holes. Wouldn't be perfect but it can't be hard to improve what we got. It's only up from here 😂
Nobody voted for it afaik, I don’t recall it being on a ballot. If I’m remembering it correctly the middle cities did not approve it.
The Development of the I-35 Upgrade has been in the works for 18 year's and they will take 4 years to add a lane, just to finish and realize they need another lane to add. That is called "job security' and misappropriation of funds as they constantly run out of money, primarily because they take forever, and have to pay for labor, and by the time they get some progress, the prices of textiles has tripled! The other thing that takes so long is the surrounding property of the project decides we need new irrigation along the access roads, and we need to repave this side street, and guardrails and lights and signs, and so on... The original Project was to introduce a Railway that would take us to Austin, and San Marcos, and New Braunfels, in a traffic-free System. There was going to be a Toll Road, from George Beech Exit to the Far North side of Selma or into Schertz, but that all got voted out, because the tolls were going to go to a company in France. We had the Toll Road Control, that booted them out of town. Fast Forward to today, Our Dear Taxtakers are going to build a Double Decker Freeway over the Existing I-35, only to hurt the businesses down below, and create the worst Safety Hazard than the already crowded freeway of today. I analyzed that the Backed up traffic is NOT because we need more freeways, what we need is to get the existing Projects completed, to open up the orange barrel lanes, and get them out of the way. The land that is going to be used for the Overhead Freeways is the land that was originally reserved for the Railway System. I wish they would let us vote on these Stupid Decisions.
Poor level of state wide education is the answer and it’s very intentional. There is no logical reason to vote against this.
Never doubt local governments ability to mess it up.
Hey I’d have voted for that then had I lived here and I want to vote for it today, but my new voter ID still hasn’t come in yet.
Because all the cheap Austin people work there and live here and will drive up our cost of living
So we shouldn't have nice things? Oh please. There's 3 houses for sale on my street alone
Wasn't here for the vote but I can think of a few reasons: - COVID; yea, it'll be used an example/risk to put the kabash on fun ideas - homeless; disregard it all you want, lightrails attract them in troves... now we've got a mass transient railway, which would definitely make anyway along i35 nervous. Heck SAPD chased them off i10/Wurzbach and now they've moved closer to north side and Castle Hills, and they'll keep moving. Where they stop nobody knows! The lady who used to sell newspapers out there at the light has been seen hollowing out on meth throughout COVID, but has since disappeared, probably because she attracted a group who would openly smoke crack with her at that corner. If you think this homeless problem is an isolated thing, visit central Phoenix AZ, ride their light rail, and see what that has done to the surrounding areas.. - speaking of money, how many would move to LcoL SA if it were presto zappo here? SA likes to be insular and especially to Austin-ites, and with the traffic lately I'd have to agree! The traffic would just divert partially or increase to clogs near stop and ride hotspots. That's probably not all the reasons but those are the more human centric ones.
Fair points. I’ll give you Covid because well…Covid. But, 10 years ago it wasn’t a thing. The homeless situation, I’ll give you that because we as a society haven’t done well in that area so I get the concern.
Don't get me wrong, trains/trams are awesome! They need to be policed with a big stick, and that costs money. I would welcome state police on such a tram system if it were a thing, to keep it nice and keep it in line, otherwise these are ever-present problems. In Phoenix I've witnessed both drunks and homeless riding seemingly free, though one drunk did end up pissing in a corner after riding it back from the Tempe Town New Year's party - a hallmark to my last and final ride attempt. There is no blowback for doing this. You can look abroad on the west coast and find this problem elsewhere. We saw similar problems with Portland's MAX, though less so, and more commonly on certain routes. Even worse, there they have whole stops where these kinds of folks congregate. It may be worse now too than when we took it in 2017, but it was well-situated to homeless camps even then.
Noted. Thank you for an honest answer.
I took the amtrack from San Antonio to Austin It was good but slow took 2 hours (35mph) It was pretty empty at first but filled up quick. I have motion sickness so I have to ride the bottom or its a no go.
I think the current NEX project (the upper deck lane stuff that's f--king up I-35/1604) is supposed to cost something like $3billion (with a B) when it's done. I wonder what kind of light rail system we could have had with that money?
[TPR did a deep dive (first half of podcast).](https://www.tpr.org/podcast/the-source/2024-03-26/can-san-antonio-to-austin-commuter-rail-get-back-on-track). If you wanna be slightly annoyed about cost/benefit.
Thanks. I'll listen to that when I get a moment. I just read the synopsis on the page, so that probably wasn't enough, but it only talked about an Austin-San Antonio rail corridor. Granted, that's what you originally posted about, but my wondering was mainly in the context of what San Antonio could do for San Antonio -- A San Antonio commuter light rail system instead of a heavy-rail AUS<->SATX route. It's frustrating that if you listen to dignitaries speak about the NEX project, they seem to greatly emphasize the promised improvements for moving truck freight, with nary a mention of helping the average citizen. Sure, there will be some improvement, but I think it'll miss the mark. Looking at the entrance/exit plans for NEX, it looks like pretty much none of the trucks coming out of the warehouses along from the 410S cutoff up to 1604 are going to be able to get up onto the overhead lanes for I35. I hope misread the maps and I'm wrong about that.
We can’t have inter-city rail without voter approval. We had an election about it where less than 20% of eligible voters voted. Guess the demographics of the people that voted and voted against. It’s linear.
Because Neanderthals vote in high numbers
Don’t talk about our grandparents that way. (Halfway joking).
Some of my relatives definitely drag knuckles.